S06.E14: The Night Before the Wedding

[Rootbeer]

Just now, Ohiopirate02 said:

Dry cleaners do not have unlimited space for all the unclaimed clothes.  At some point, they will have to get rid of them--either throw them away, donate to thrift stores, take them home, or sell them.  Airlines have warehouse that sell the contents of unclaimed baggage, why wouldn't a dry cleaner do the same?

 

Of course they do, however, I don't think they keep racks and racks of them available on site for potential customers to browse like we saw on the show.

[Jax7917]

2 minutes ago, CdrJanny said:

Because Kate's morbid obesity is not genetically based but rather caused by a lifelong eating disorder, overeating (binge eating) as a response to her emotions. 

As someone who periodically engages in such behavior due to clinical depression or anxiety, I recognize the signs and can relate.

Luckily, when I was in my 30s, I sought medical help and now respond quickly in a positive way when I start sliding down that hole. 

It appears that Kate doesn't recognize she may need help.

I know she over eats but I think obesity is more than that. I always thought it was a genetic condition.

[Rootbeer]

8 minutes ago, CdrJanny said:

Because Kate's morbid obesity is not genetically based but rather caused by a lifelong eating disorder, overeating (binge eating) as a response to her emotions. 

As someone who periodically engages in such behavior due to clinical depression or anxiety, I recognize the signs and can relate.

Luckily, when I was in my 30s, I sought medical help and now respond quickly in a positive way when I start sliding down that hole. 

It appears that Kate doesn't recognize she may need help.

We saw scene after scene of Kate as a child, being given ice cream and other treats by her father whenever she felt sad or unhappy.  She's learned to eat her negative emotions and that can happen in any family although it is probably more common in families where parents pass these behaviors on to their children.  Hence, Toby's concern about Kate giving Jack extra marshmallows with his sweet potatoes; she is probably one who 'rewards' herself for getting through stressful events with high calorie foods and Toby rightfully hopes she doesn't pass that mindset along.

Certainly she may have a genetic propensity to obesity.  She has multiple female relatives, her mother and maternal grandmother, anyway, with somewhat dysfuntional relationships with food. Maybe Kate's maternal great grandmother was morbidly obese and that is what lead her daughter, Kate's grandmother, to be so obsessed with weight.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Crs97]

Considering how obsessed Rebecca’s mother was about dieting, I can fan-wave that there were someone in the family who had a serious weight problem.

 

[CdrJanny]

1 minute ago, Jax7917 said:

I know she over eats but I think obesity is more than that. I always thought it was a genetic condition.

Obesity is not a condition per se, but rather the symptom of a variety of mental and physical conditions.  In order to stop being obese, you have to treat the cause, not just the symptom.

Genetics is one (of many) causes of obesity.  Just like genetics is one of many causes of heart disease or diabetes.

[Rootbeer]

2 minutes ago, CdrJanny said:

Obesity is not a condition per se, but rather the symptom of a variety of mental and physical conditions.  In order to stop being obese, you have to treat the cause, not just the symptom.

Genetics is one (of many) causes of obesity.  Just like genetics is one of many causes of heart disease or diabetes.

And, yet, not everyone who is genetically predisposed to diabetes or heart disease will develop it; same with obesity.  It is a fact that some people have little problem maintaining their body weight no matter what their eating habits while there are others who have a lot of trouble losing weight, no mater what they do.

[kili]

Quote

I have to question the likelihood of a dry cleaner letting a total stranger choose something off the "abandoned" rack and finding a garment not only the right size but also perfectly appropriate for the occasion.

As others have pointed out, laws dictate how long drycleaners must keep your clothes and that they can dispose of your unclaimed clothes as they wish (just like how those storage places can auction off the contents of your locker if you stop paying). They can't be required to keep abandoned stuff forever.

Given this drycleaner is in a resort town with a big winery venue (and it is not the only winery in the area), I could see people coming to town for a wedding with just such garments, getting them dry-cleaned after the big event and forgetting to pick them up (and it not be worth it to drive/fly back to get them).  This might even not be the first person who has had to grab a last minute dress or perhaps the owner keeps the nicer stuff to sell at consignment stores. 

[CdrJanny]

33 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

And, yet, not everyone who is genetically predisposed to diabetes or heart disease will develop it; same with obesity.  It is a fact that some people have little problem maintaining their body weight no matter what their eating habits while there are others who have a lot of trouble losing weight, no mater what they do.

This is true.  However, the OP stated that obesity was a genetic condition, and I pointed out that there are many causes of obesity in addition to genetics, just as there are many other causes of heart disease and diabetes.  Genetics is not the only cause of obesity (which is actually a symptom, not a disease).

[Josiemae]

My theory is that Cassidy rejects Kevin because she wants to hook up with Cousin Oliver.

[Boo Boo]

Surprise surprise, Kevin ends up with Sophie.  Yawn. 

I really find the actress, the character bland.  What exactly do these two have that's some undying love?  Seems like it's all based in the past anyway -- how does Kevin know the woman she is today?  He doesn't.

[Aloeonatable]

3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I think people are expecting his story to end with a flash forward to his death (the fact that we haven't seen him in the flash forwards at the cabin combined with Rebecca making a point of appointing someone to make decisions if he is unable to leads to speculation that he is no longer with us when she dies).

That makes sense, however, I think it might happen in the penultimate episode of the series. At the Paley Fest panel, Mandy did say that she actually got physically ill reading about the last few scenes of episode 17. 

[OlderThanDirt]

If I were traveling to a wedding at a resort where I would be seeing my movie star ex-husband, I would arrive in some cool jacket or blazer; not that fugly sweater that out dowdies his mother.  The wardrobe department is usually so good on this show. If that's fashion in 2027, no thanks.

Almost everything has been said about the car except the production designers must have anticipated that the yellow car would yank us out of the story when he said it was rented for Kate and Philip. I guess they really wanted to see Kevin toss the Just Married sign.

And on a purely personal aside, I grew up in the Central California coast area. That dormant winter vineyard was their choice for a great view? There are backroads along the Cuesta Grade where you can see all the way to the ocean and they could film without onlookers.

[BoogieBurns]

2 hours ago, CdrJanny said:

Because Kate's morbid obesity is not genetically based but rather caused by a lifelong eating disorder, overeating (binge eating) as a response to her emotions. 

Also, if we recall, it spiraled after her abortion. Many times one trauma is enough to trigger morbid obesity in a person who didn't inherit it genetically. She had three in 2 years. Dad dies, abusive boyfriend, abortion. 

There's a doctor who studies weight gain in people who aren't predisposed to obesity. He found an astonishing number of his morbidly obese clients were molested as children. While that (fortunately!) does not appear to be the case with Kate (it is the case with Chrissy), the traumas she did experience could trigger it as well. 

More info here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3961565/

But also, Camryn Manheim is her great aunt. The family isn't all twigs

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, BoogieBurns said:

But also, Camryn Manheim is her great aunt. The family isn't all twigs

Wow, I had no idea! Damn the writers for not giving Jack or Rebecca an awesome aunt!

ETA: well, doh I had forgotten about her miniature part!

Edited April 28, 2022 by MissLucas

[hoosiergirl]

I thought Camryn Mannheim’s character was Jack’s mom’s cousin. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by hoosiergirl

[Ohiopirate02]

 

2 minutes ago, hoosiergirl said:

I thought Camryn Mannheim’s character was Jack’s mom’s cousin. 

She is.  I will say that I take after my dad's cousin's side of the family more than any other because genetics are weird.  So Kate taking after Debbie can happen though adult Kate should be taller than Chrissy.  The actress who first played Kate as a child is going to grow up to be built like Camryn, five ten and solidly built.

[peeayebee]

 

1 hour ago, OlderThanDirt said:

If I were traveling to a wedding at a resort where I would be seeing my movie star ex-husband, I would arrive in some cool jacket or blazer; not that fugly sweater that out dowdies his mother. 

That was a really weird choice. Maybe it was supposed to show how tired she was having the long flight. Or maybe she had to be wearing something that was so completely unsuitable for a wedding, thereby making her shopping trip absolutely necessary. I mean, IN LIEU OF something appropriate to wear...

[CrystalBlue]

4 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

I think the viewers will also be crying, not only because Miguel is gone; but because that means no more sweet scenes of him being a caring, loving husband to Rebecca, no more scenes with Miguel as the voice of reason and sanity.  It also means that, from here on out, Kate will be in charge of Rebecca's care and we all know that that means scene after scene of Kate complaining about how hard it all is, how sad it makes her, how unfair it is to her while Randall tries to backseat drive the whole thing and Kevin stands at the ready with his wallet, ready to buy whatever Kate wants for Rebecca.

I think the storyline of adult kids being placed in charge of their mother's care and planning for her future could be a good one that would resonate with a lot of people who've done the same thing. However, on this show, they manage to ignore the great big elephant in most people's living rooms; how much getting good care for an elderly parent costs by making Kevin rich enough to afford stuff that is well out of reach for most of us.  A real story, with the 3 of them pooling money trying to pay for home care, or to find a better quality care facility; would be a lot more meaningful, I think.  Instead, Kate will make a decision, refuse to consider any alternatives, and stick out her hand for Kevin to lay the cash in it.

Yes, excellent way of putting this.  So on point.  Kate the Complainer and Kevin the Cash Machine.  This and the eventual death of Rebecca are all the stories left to tell, it seems.

[CountryGirl]

3 hours ago, Aloeonatable said:

That makes sense, however, I think it might happen in the penultimate episode of the series. At the Paley Fest panel, Mandy did say that she actually got physically ill reading about the last few scenes of episode 17. 

I suspect we won't see Miguel's demise (assuming he isn't in the flash forwards for that reason) until episode 16 or 17. TPTB just have to twist the knife by letting us fall in love with Miguel even more next episode. 

[CountryGirl]

19 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I feel the exact opposite.  I think Kevin/Sophie has felt very earned...throughout the whole series.  I'm not even a particular fan of Sophie, but I'm 100% on board with how this was done.  They are the messy, broken, and extraordinarily complicated Jack/Rebecca. They weren't the Great American love story like his parents or even the solid long-standing marriage of Randall and Beth, but I could tell by the way that Kevin looked at Sophie that she was it for him.  We've seen their story, and they're both finally ready to be it for each other.

If anything, Kevin/Sophie and Randall/Beth make Kate/Philip stick out like a sore thumb.

I feel much the same as you (although I do like Phate LOL).

I see the valentine not as a symbol of him and Sophie being frozen in time as kids, teenagers/ young adults, but rather that she never was far from his thoughts and we learned it was the same for her. It was a nod to their beginnings IMO and not, they're still those same kids. They have grown, they have changed, they have evolved and have learned how to live alone, and it is for THAT reason, that THIS time, they have a REAL shot. A brand-new beginning. As 45-year-olds. Not kids. But MMV of course. 

[mansonlamps]

On 4/27/2022 at 1:02 PM, Aloeonatable said:

I never thought Jack "stifled' Rebecca's singing career. How did he do that? He told her she was a 40 year old woman singing cover songs in bars. I hardly think that is a career. She could have told him to "shove it" and she was going to continue to sing with her ex, but she didn't. Her choice. 

As for her not wanting children, they had been together for years at that point, at least 6 years. Jack wanted a family. She could have left him, kind of like what Zoe did to Kevin, but she didn't. She chose to have sex with him, whenever & wherever. 

Rebecca mourned Kyle. She also told Randall that even though Jack chose him for them, "that child became my life." 

My point is that at any time Rebecca could have disagreed with Jack and chose to do what she wanted. She didn't. 

Your opinions don't change the fact that Rebecca could harbor deep seated resentment over some of these things.   Dementia patients aren't always kind and quiet about sharing things from their past.  That would be hard to watch though,  given the epic love story they've presented to us.

21 hours ago, buckboard said:

Boogieburns, I think just the opposite.  Chrissy mentioned in an interview that she was wearing prosthetics for filming.  Chrissy is actually thinner than her character Kate is. (Thinner being relative.)  I don't know if we'll see her weighing less on TIU, but I wouldn't be surprised.  

I think you may be thinking of her role in American Horror Story where she had to be padded.  Her more current public appearances show her to be very much the same as Kate.

8 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

I’m glad I’m not the only one who has this thought!  No way Kate is supposed to be the same size as Chrissy. I think we are just supposed to suspend belief on that, which is fine because she’s acting and actors play people different than their real selves all the time. 

Well hopefully they can go both ways with this and abandon the fat suits used in many shows, notably young Monica Gellar in Friends.

[Liquid6]

Awww...poor Wittle Rich, Handsome, Movie Star, Privileged, Man Child Kevin had to spend the episode feeling sad that his first love had hesitation about  falling for his mess again. Give me a break lol. I swear, the "Poor Kevin" episodes make my skin crawl, but the audience loves them. Yet the "Poor Randall" episodes about how growing up with a family who doesn't look like him and how it affects his adult relationships get eyerolls from the audience. Interesting.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Liquid6

[Chatty Cake]

I would have felt better about Kevin having that decades old valentine in his wallet if we had seen him purposely put it there because he knew Sophie would be at the wedding. A 40 something year old man carrying it all these years and the fact that it looked too good to be in the same wallet for that long was annoying. 
 

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Chatty Cake said:

I would have felt better about Kevin having that decades old valentine in his wallet if we had seen him purposely put it there because he knew Sophie would be at the wedding. A 40 something year old man carrying it all these years and the fact that it looked too good to be in the same wallet for that long was annoying. 
 

How a writer put it, that based it on himself,  is that he uses his wallet like some use a box on their dresser. He has a ticket stub or pic he keeps putting back in a slot when he empties it out or changes it (like women do with purses) He says not the one where he keeps the money. He felt Kevin kept putting it back but not thinking about it all the time.  So I guess he felt it wasn't that odd.

I wonder if his wife, if he has one, is checking that slot. ; )

Edited April 29, 2022 by debraran

[Boudreaux]

I sure didn’t think they needed a whole episode for this reveal. It was boring. But I like the end game with Sophie and I do like their history. Loved the Valentine. My hubby has a letter I wrote him when I was 19 and he was deploying right after we got married in his wallet…I adore that. It’s been in there for 26 years. 🥰

[Boo Boo]

3 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I suspect we won't see Miguel's demise (assuming he isn't in the flash forwards for that reason) until episode 16 or 17. TPTB just have to twist the knife by letting us fall in love with Miguel even more next episode. 

And then she'll get to die having forgotten all about Miguel and she'll see St. Jack waiting for her.  

Groan.

[Shermie]

5 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Maybe it was supposed to show how tired she was having the long flight.

Long flight? Was she flying in from Rome or something? I’m assuming it was cross-country, at most 5 hours. Not long enough to justify looking frumpy. But she cleaned up well, so whatever.

I thought the valentine was sweet. I have a little “I love you Mom” mini book permanently in my purse that one of my kids made for me 20 years ago. It isn’t worn out at all; it’s just stuffed in a side pocket.

[kili]

Quote

Long flight? Was she flying in from Rome or something? I’m assuming it was cross-country, at most 5 hours. Not long enough to justify looking frumpy. But she cleaned up well, so whatever.

Sophie was coming from Berlin where she was working. That's a long flight.

[Tabbygirl521]

2 hours ago, kili said:

Sophie was coming from Berlin where she was working. That's a long flight.

I think it can be a sign of maturity that she dressed to serve her own needs and not to dazzle a man. 

[bros402]

On 4/26/2022 at 10:46 PM, brokenwing29 said:

Oh, so there were two Sophies when realistically (for their age group) there likely wouldn't even be one? Or anyone in their class named Ella (one of the names Kevin wrote on the Valentine)? I know, I know, I have a problem, but details like that drive me crazy.

But yay for next week's long-awaited Miguel episode.

The Big 3 were born, what, 1980?

According to social security, Sophie was not in the top 1000 in 1980, but Sophia was #366 (641 girls named Sophia were born). Sofia was at #825 (191 were born). Sophie entered the top 1000 names in 1984, after having not been in the top 1000 since 1955. It has been in the top 1000 every year since 1984, with its peak being #51 in 2011.

On the other hand, Kevin was #23 (17,984), Kate was #197 (1,330), and Randall was #136 (2,025)

[chocolatine]

FWIW, I fly from the West Coast to Germany and back every year, and I don't look half as good when I land as Sophie did in this episode. It's not just about wanting to wear comfortable clothes on an 11-hour flight (or multiple flights if the route has layovers). The jet lag hits you much harder coming back from Europe, the cabin air dries out the skin, the hair gets really flat in the back after being against the headrest for so many hours, plus some people experience bloating/digestive issues for a day or two after such a long flight.

So the sweater was the least of Sophie's problems that day.

Edited April 29, 2022 by chocolatine

[debraran]

4 hours ago, chocolatine said:

FWIW, I fly from the West Coast to Germany and back every year, and I don't look half as good when I land as Sophie did in this episode. It's not just about wanting to wear comfortable clothes on an 11-hour flight (or multiple flights if the route has layovers). The jet lag hits you much harder coming back from Europe, the cabin air dries out the skin, the hair gets really flat in the back after being against the headrest for so many hours, plus some people experience bloating/digestive issues for a day or two after such a long flight.

So the sweater was the least of Sophie's problems that day.

I like that she was always comfortable with Kevin and not trying to be eye candy. She could have been wearing a burlap bag and Kevin would look at her with that look he gives her.

She mentioned getting tired of the jet lag,  a good gig when her marriage was ending, and I suspect she'll help Kevin out with Rebecca but not be her only nurse. We see her there that day they gather to say last goodbyes.

Traveling nurse can be interesting but as my traveling teacher daughter can tell you, local or international, it gets tiring dealing with airports, delays,layovers, cancels and jet lag. She's stopping this year herself.

Edited April 29, 2022 by debraran

[Boo Boo]

On 4/27/2022 at 12:53 PM, RachelKM said:

And this is my main problem with Kevin and Sophie.  It's treacly and a little schmaltzy to have a childhood sweetheart soulmate, but okay.  And yes, it would have been shitty to have another Pearson endgame by clip package and we've been given a background for them.  But that background is BAD.  

Someone referred to it as written in the stars versus written in the show (sorry I forgot to note the post author) and that is exactly what the problem is.  Sophie and Kevin being great together and so in love was all tell and no show.  What we saw was a grieving and emotionally wobbling Kevin marry his sweet but naïve long-time girlfriend.  She seemed nice and besotted as hell. But seriously immature and oblivious to Kevin's self-absorption and damage.

Then a brief relationship in which Kevin was still a addict mess. Then a hook up. 

There weren't really any episodes showing them being good together.  And that's because the only time they were happy was when they were idiot teens.

That tracks.  I hated Luke & Lorelie too... actually I don't hate Kevin and Sophie.  I just don't find it well written or really earned by the writing.

Right that's what I found so funny about Sophie running out b/c he said her hair still smelled the same and then the love me who I am now.  I kept thinking:  He doesn't even KNOW the person she is now.  SHE doesn't know the person he is now.  They both are running on nostalgia and attraction.

 

[Boo Boo]

On 4/28/2022 at 8:30 AM, izabella said:

I think that shows her growth.  In the past, she would have jumped in again and would have ignored the little warning voice in her head saying, "no, wait, something's not quite right."  This time, she knows better than to set aside her concerns just to be with him, and wants to make sure they are on the same page because it won't work otherwise.

I'm with the person you responded to that found that a ridiculous scenario especially when the reason for her apparently sudden changing course is that she is a different person now and he needs to be in love with that person, not the person from her past.

Hey, guess what -- Kevin is a different person now from the one you knew and got married to way back when.  He's a different person than the time she couldn't FF through The Manny.  Does Sophie know the person he is now?  How much time has she spent with him since he was an addict for a fleeting moment?  None.  She was married.  She doesn't know HIM.

Then there's the fact that shortly after being rejected, he's trying to see if there's a spark with Cassidy, right?  That leads to "we're just friends."  This is the guy you want to be with?  

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Boo Boo

[Aloeonatable]

16 hours ago, mansonlamps said:

Your opinions don't change the fact that Rebecca could harbor deep seated resentment over some of these things.

Have we seen any evidence of that yet? Has she said anything or shown through her actions that she resented some of the things Jack did. We have seen her angry at him, but no resentment. Still could happen, I guess. Maybe we'll see some of that expressed to Miguel in their relationship. 

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

Have we seen any evidence of that yet? Has she said anything or shown through her actions that she resented some of the things Jack did. We have seen her angry at him, but no resentment. Still could happen, I guess. Maybe we'll see some of that expressed to Miguel in their relationship. 

The show had the characters place Jack on a pedestal, then we got the characters seeing Jack's feet are clay, but ultimately the characters have made peace with Jack being an imperfect person whom they loved deeply.  It would feel strange to me for the show to have Rebecca resenting Jack in the waning episodes of the last season when we have not seen that level of resentment since season 2.  

[Ohmo]

17 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

(although I do like Phate LOL).

While true that Kate/Phillip aren't my fave, Kate sticks out like a sore thumb to me because:

Jack and Rebecca were Jack and Rebecca.

After Jack, Rebecca married Miguel, who had been a family friend for years.

Kevin and Sophie met when they were children.

Randall and Beth met in college.

Kate has been an absolute train wreck with partners.  There was Mark, and then IIRC, she was involved with a married man while working at the diner.  As far as I'm concerned, she actively threw her marriage to Toby away with both hands.  The flash forward may show Kate and Phillip being together when Jack is an adult, but that's more of the show just saying "Hey, Kate and Philip are together."  We've actually seen very little of them as a couple.

Working things out with Toby (instead of what was actually written) would have shown Kate in an imperfect but enduring situation.  That's how most of her family operates, except for her.

[Ohmo]

48 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

She doesn't know HIM.

She doesn't know this part of him (yet), but I disagree that she doesn't know him.  They were married.  They grew up together.  Those ties and that history are important.  Both of them will be incorporating new information about the other as they move forward now, but they both know each other.  They don't know EVERYTHING about the other, but I don't think "knowing" is an all-or-nothing scenario.

[Boo Boo]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

She doesn't know this part of him (yet), but I disagree that she doesn't know him.  They were married.  They grew up together.  Those ties and that history are important.  Both of them will be incorporating new information about the other as they move forward now, but they both know each other.  They don't know EVERYTHING about the other, but I don't think "knowing" is an all-or-nothing scenario.

But I"m talking about the specific reasoning she gave for her freakout the other night:

She wants Kevin to love her for who she is today, not who she was.  

But both of them don't even know each other TODAY.  They haven't spent any time together as a couple TODAY.

They are both running on fumes of nostalgia, past love, and attraction.  So it seems like a rather silly freakout and a rather silly coming back together.   

It would've made more sense if her freakout was, "this man cheated on me in the past -- how can I trust him going forward?" 

 

[Jax7917]

42 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

But I"m talking about the specific reasoning she gave for her freakout the other night:

She wants Kevin to love her for who she is today, not who she was.  

But both of them don't even know each other TODAY.  They haven't spent any time together as a couple TODAY.

They are both running on fumes of nostalgia, past love, and attraction.  So it seems like a rather silly freakout and a rather silly coming back together.   

It would've made more sense if her freakout was, "this man cheated on me in the past -- how can I trust him going forward?" 

 

Yes! This is what I have been saying. Kevin is a hot movie star. What's not to like? She's obviously attracted to him, has a history with him, but they divorced because he cheated on her and then they got back together as adults but he is an alcoholic so that ruined things for a second time. Sophie is so focused on him loving the smell of her hair and that she's worried he only loves the old Sophie when she should be focused on, how can I ever trust you again? Trust has been their constant issue, not love.

[JKL845]

But Kevin and Sophie aren't leaving Kate's wedding to rush off to elope. They are both wanting to give it another chance because they still love each other. Behavior changes were seen, maturing, but the core of who the person is, remains. That's what they know and love about each other. Any one else that Kevin gets into a relationship with will have to start from scratch to get to know him, and they would have to accept that he is and always will be in love with Sophie. Same with anyone getting involved with Sophie, they showed that she will always be in love with Kevin. So it would be awful for either of them to be in a relationship with anyone else. They can't help it. They love each other and want to continue their love story wherever it leads them. I'm happy they found their way back to each other!

[Boo Boo]

5 minutes ago, JKL845 said:

But Kevin and Sophie aren't leaving Kate's wedding to rush off to elope. They are both wanting to give it another chance because they still love each other. Behavior changes were seen, maturing, but the core of who the person is, remains. That's what they know and love about each other. Any one else that Kevin gets into a relationship with will have to start from scratch to get to know him, and they would have to accept that he is and always will be in love with Sophie. Same with anyone getting involved with Sophie, they showed that she will always be in love with Kevin. So it would be awful for either of them to be in a relationship with anyone else. They can't help it. They love each other and want to continue their love story wherever it leads them. I'm happy they found their way back to each other!

She wasn't running off to elope with him when she was about to bed him and then freaked out, either.

And as soon as he was rejected, he's off trying to find other women.

That seems like the core of the person she married the first time, not someone that has matured.

[JKL845]

1 minute ago, Boo Boo said:

She wasn't running off to elope with him when she was about to bed him and then freaked out, either.

And as soon as he was rejected, he's off trying to find other women.

That seems like the core of the person she married the first time, not someone that has matured.

He wasn't serious about that with Cassidy. I saw it and if you look at the interviews Justin and the writers confirm that. If you don't like Kevin with Sophie you don't want to see it so you won't. 

[Boo Boo]

15 minutes ago, JKL845 said:

He wasn't serious about that with Cassidy. I saw it and if you look at the interviews Justin and the writers confirm that. If you don't like Kevin with Sophie you don't want to see it so you won't. 

As I said above, her "I need you to love me for who I am today, not who I was before" makes no sense to me since they haven't spent any time together.  If the storyline was them dating for another couple of months and then she figured out that he's in love with nostalgia, that line makes sense.  

I don't really care that much about who he ends up with, but I think the she's the end all, love of his life, soulmate story is odd given Kevin can't go to a wedding w/o his baby mama and SIL wondering which woman he's going to sleep with and that after being rejected by the Great Love of His Life, he can't just go back to the room, be by himself and cogitate on what happened.  Is that growth?  I don't think so.

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Boo Boo

[Boo Boo]

6 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The show had the characters place Jack on a pedestal, then we got the characters seeing Jack's feet are clay, but ultimately the characters have made peace with Jack being an imperfect person whom they loved deeply.  It would feel strange to me for the show to have Rebecca resenting Jack in the waning episodes of the last season when we have not seen that level of resentment since season 2.  

Do they even view him as an imperfect person? Seems like the only person that saw him as imperfect was Rebecca and that was for a fleeting moment while he beat his feeling moment of addiction.  I really don't recall the other characters viewing Jack as anything other than the most wonderful husband, father, friend that ever existed. I mean, apparently Kate's marriage was ruined by Jack's ghost.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Boo Boo

[LexieLily]

4 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

As I said above, her "I need you to love me for who I am today, not who I was before" makes no sense to me since they haven't spent any time together.  If the storyline was them dating for another couple of months and then she figured out that he's in love with nostalgia, that line makes sense.  

I don't really care that much about who he ends up with, but I think the she's the end all, love of his life, soulmate story is odd given Kevin can't go to a wedding w/o his baby mama and SIL wondering which woman he's going to sleep with and that after being rejected by the Great Love of His Life, he can't just go back to the room, be by himself and cogitate on what happened.  Is that growth?  I don't think so.

The wedding ring in the five-year-from-now-flash to Rebecca's deathbed implies that Kevin/Sophie got married but I don't (realistically) see them making it even six months from Kate/PMJ's wedding. Like you said, they are running on strong attraction to their nostalgic history and dating in current-time is going to have them essentially starting from scratch.

[Boo Boo]

1 minute ago, LexieLily said:

The wedding ring in the five-year-from-now-flash to Rebecca's deathbed implies that Kevin/Sophie got married but I don't (realistically) see them making it even six months from Kate/PMJ's wedding. Like you said, they are running on strong attraction to their nostalgic history and dating in current-time is going to have them essentially starting from scratch.

I think they'll give them the happy ever after treatment given so few episodes left to throw in someone else.  But IRL, I would bet it would be over in six months.

[JKL845]

37 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

that after being rejected by the Great Love of His Life, he can't just go back to the room, be by himself and cogitate on what happened.  Is that growth?  I don't think so.

 

Ha. That's what he was doing and ended up doing, but they had Cassidy need his help for hijinks. Keep the viewers guessing. IRL none of this show would have happened. They wouldn't have gotten Randall from the hospital.😆

[Quiet1]

1 hour ago, Boo Boo said:

As I said above, her "I need you to love me for who I am today, not who I was before" makes no sense to me since they haven't spent any time together.  If the storyline was them dating for another couple of months and then she figured out that he's in love with nostalgia, that line makes sense.  

 

 

I'm trying to understand what you mean here. From my perspective Sophie was trying to figure out why she freaked out and left. What she is saying to Kevin here is like someone telling another "I need this, this and that". The other person is "okay, I'm on it, doing this, this and getting that, etc." Not that it's already a done deal sort of thing. Just that is what she knows she needs from him going forward. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Boo Boo said:

Do they even view him as an imperfect person? Seems like the only person that saw him as imperfect was Rebecca and that was for a fleeting moment while he beat his feeling moment of addiction.  I really don't recall the other characters viewing Jack as anything other than the most wonderful husband, father, friend that ever existed. I mean, apparently Kate's marriage was ruined by Jack's ghost.

Kevin knew his father was an alcoholic.   Randall also saw glimpses of Jack struggling. The only Pearson who still has Jack on that pedestal is Kate.  And, to be honest Kate has probably blocked out any bad behavior of Jack's from her childhood in order to keep him there.  I know I did that with my dad.  I remembered my mom's reaction to my dad's drinking but not his drinking. I was an adult when I accidentally found a calendar my mom kept from when i was a kid where she was recording his nights out.