S01.E01: The Goldfish Problem

[starri]

Quote

Steven Grant learns that he may be a superhero, but may also share a body with a ruthless mercenary.

 

[AnimeMania]

If you didn't put glass in your shoes, you might not have to walk with a cane.

If you didn't wear shoes with so many open spaces in them, you could recycle the glass shards and you wouldn't have to break new glass every day. 

They showed the parts I didn't want to see and cut away right before the parts I wanted to see.

I did like the raining logs bit.

[johntfs]

It's clearly some kind of weird ritual.  That said, I just started the episode so I'm not to the "raining logs" part yet.

[Megras]

Title from Disney+: 1. The Goldfish Problem

Synopsis from D+: Steven Grant learns that he may be a superhero, but may also share a body with a ruthless mercenary.

[thuganomics85]

Still got a lot of questions, but it was a decent enough start.  Obviously, I'm guessing there is some kind of personality disorder going on with Marc being some kind of ultimate badass (dude beat up an ancient Egyptian monster like it was nothing!), but I'm curious if there are other personalities in play as well.  Also, is Steven actually the main person in this body or is he also just one of the personalities that just happens to be in charge right now?  Curious to see how this all plays out in the end.

Oscar Isaac was great as expected.  He really made me believe Steven was an awkward sad-sack, which is impressive since he lately plays way more charismatic and charming characters.  Guy has range!  The glimpses we got of Marc seemed compelling too.

So, the villain seems to be this Arthur Harrow character, who is leading some kind of cult that follow Anubis, I think?  Has some kind of power where he can "judge" a person and if they don't pass, he drains their life force?  I bet he's fun at parties!  Never thought I'd see Ethan Hawke join the MCU!

I wonder if we'll Marc's version of this episode in the future.  The way they cut around the fight scenes were fun, but I'd like to see how Marc took everyone out with ease, apparently!

There is totally going to be more to Steven's "mum" and all of these voice messages he is leaving her.

While ever other Disney+ hero has to wait for their costume, Marc/Steven is already rocking the Moon Knight outfit at the end!

[vb68]

So I haven't read the comics or anything, and basically know next to absolutely nothing about this character except he's apparently a kind of Batman clone. I'm just following the MCU train.  Having said that, I feel like I got what they were going for well enough. Even as a sad sack, Oscar Isaac is so engaging. He's the main reason to watch so far. I did find myself wondering things like how does he keep that job or any job at all? He didn't notice the date on his phone at the restaurant? And why does he think chaining himself to his bed is doing anything to help at this point?

I'm sure as we get deeper into the story, some of that will be explained or become clearer. It looks like an interesting story, and I'm in for Oscar Isaac, and the eventual connection to the rest of the MCU.  Ethan Hawke was ok. He didn't have much to do yet beyond looking spooky.

Edited March 30, 2022 by vb68

[Bessiesue]

We are also not familiar with this show, and coming from the MCU train.  We are on our third watch minus the glass feet part.  Loving it so far.  The voice stating the vessel is back is hilarious.  Anyone know who is the voice.

[HelloooKitty]

Are we allowed to give background info from the comics that hasn’t been explicitly stated in the show yet? Or is that verboten?

[cdnalor]

35 minutes ago, Bessiesue said:

We are also not familiar with this show, and coming from the MCU train.  We are on our third watch minus the glass feet part.  Loving it so far.  The voice stating the vessel is back is hilarious.  Anyone know who is the voice.

Credits say the voice of Honshu is F. Murray Abraham.

[Bessiesue]

Thank you!  Convinced my sister to watch with us while we are on weather watch.

[HelloooKitty]

3 minutes ago, cdnalor said:

Credits say the voice of Honshu is F. Murray Abraham.

Salazari?

[cdnalor]

2 minutes ago, HelloooKitty said:

Salazari?

Salieri, yes.

[RedElf]

Poor Gus.

If you don't have a little background into the character, the first episode might be maddeningly confusing.

The music is awesome, though.

And poor Steven.

 

[HelloooKitty]

30 minutes ago, cdnalor said:

Salieri, yes.

Yeah. That one. 

3 minutes ago, RedElf said:

Poor Gus.

If you don't have a little background into the character, the first episode might be maddeningly confusing.

The music is awesome, though.

And poor Steven.

 

Steven (with a v) is SO confused. Bless. 

[RedElf]

We never see Steven's mother.  The person he's leaving messages for is probably not his mother.

 

[Sakura12]

Knowing nothing of this character (besides the DiD) and him not having any MCU connections, I found it enjoyable. I liked how we'd switch between the personalities and we'd only stay with Steven. Hopefully we can see Marc's version. 

Ethan Hawke playing a cult leader with a scales of justice tattoo is interesting.

[Spartan Girl]

Am confused as hell but still intrigued.

I love F. Murray Abraham.

[Enigma X]

I really enjoyed it. 

[calliope1975]

I really liked it. Oscar was fab as per usual and he was also surprisingly funny. Poor one fin fishy friend Gus though. Tear. Ethan Hawke is sufficiently creepy so far. The CGI was bad in the car chase but that seems to be the norm with some of the Marvel Disney + shows. 

I know nothing about Moon Knight other than some hilarious comic panels I've seen and his character had the highest power in some fighting game I played. I keep reading elsewhere people complaining about the accent, but I thought it was obvious to me that the accent was deliberately fake when whoever called him was like WTF is that accent?? I'm excited to see where it goes, and I hope they explore how bonkers the Egyptian gods are/were. 

[Maren]

Wow. I really enjoyed that!! Way more than I thought I would. It engaged me fast and kept me engaged to the end. Oscar Issac was awesome. He did a great job as Steven and then at the end being a totally different character as Marc. I loved him. He works with a bunch of azzes tho! Oy.

I really liked the voice in his head too. Whomever did that did a good job. 

I'm not a huge fan of Ethan Hawke but his weirdness works so far. 

I'm looking forward to more!

Oh, and I totally think his "mom" is fake!

[MrWhyt]

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, the villain seems to be this Arthur Harrow character, who is leading some kind of cult that follow Anubis, I think? 

Ammit

6 hours ago, cdnalor said:

Credits say the voice of Honshu is F. Murray Abraham.

Khonsu

[vb68]

5 hours ago, RedElf said:

We never see Steven's mother. 

I would be shocked if she actually exists.

No idea who he's calling.

[Bill1978]

 

6 hours ago, HelloooKitty said:

Steven (with a v) is SO confused.

I watch a lot of TV/Movies these days with captions on and I kinda wish the captions had spelt his name Stephen until the moment he said it is spelt with a V and then it appears correctly, as it would have fitted in with the comedic vibe the show had going at that moment in the story. I understand why they wouldn't do it, but I just think it would have been a funny moment for people who use captions.

I know nothing about this character, didn't even know they existed until it was announced as a show. And all I know is that he is basically considered Marvel's Batman with DID. And I'm enjoying the story at the moment, knowing he has DID helped me get through the early 'confusing' part of what was happening when he blacked out but I am intrigued with learning more about him, even if I think this entry into the MCU may tap into the being a bit more horror than the standard MCU properties. It has a lot of potential and curious to see how it will link to other MCU properties - especially whre in the timeline it fits.

[Zonk]

I'm sufficiently underwhelmed. Maybe I saw a bit too much social media hyping / marketing, but this was just mediocre and really not as violent or gorey as they made it out to be.

Maybe a three episode drop would have helped this one. As it stands I'm a lot more annoyed than pulled in by all the mysteries they set up.

[Zonk]

16 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, the villain seems to be this Arthur Harrow character, who is leading some kind of cult that follow Anubis, I think?  Has some kind of power where he can "judge" a person and if they don't pass, he drains their life force?  I bet he's fun at parties!  Never thought I'd see Ethan Hawke join the MCU!

Ammit, but you are right, in real egyptian mythology Anubis does the weighing and Ammit just devours the bad hearts. But it's Marvel, so it's gotta be different, I guess.

5 hours ago, vb68 said:

I would be shocked if she actually exists.

Yeah, with every other phone call we heard the other side. Not with his mother. Probably no one on the other end of the line.

 

[tennisgurl]

I know very little about Moon Knight other than the very basics, but I am glad that the MCU is shining a spotlight on a more obscure character and that the Disney+ shows have let the MCU experiment more with style and tone. I really enjoyed this, it had a nice combination of psychological horror and mystery, plus it has a ton of Egyptian mythology in it, which I have always found interesting. Oscar Isaac is great as always, its interesting to play this sad awkward unstable guy when he tends to mostly play cool badass types, the man just has so much range. 

I wonder if Steven is really the original personality or if its Marc who's the original personality, and Steven is an alter? Or if they're both alters to some other personality? Is this because of the possession, or because of a dissociative disorder? Or is it both? I really like how they handled Steven's episodes, it allowed us to really get into his shoes, being just as confused and freaked out as he is. 

Very cool seeing Ethan Hawke join the MCU, Arthur Harrow and his cult seem like interesting antagonists. I have wondered about religion in the MCU, after the Snappening and every other crazy thing that has happened, do you think it made people less religious, or even more, trying to find stability in an increasingly bizarre world. I can see a cult where you can be judged and killed based on your deeds gaining traction in a world where half the population died randomly out of nowhere. Plus it seems like Arthur Harrow has access to real magic, which I am very excited about. I love exploring magic in the MCU that isn't handwaved as "alien tech" or something ridiculous, bring on the gods. Its funny to think about real ancient gods seeing the Inhumans strutting around ancient alien style, probably shaking their heads like "bunch of posers coming down from the stars, acting like they own the place when they cant even guide a single soul to the afterlife."

The camera work was really excellent, I loved the focus on shots of Steven in mirrors and water, always in reflections, showing the multiple sides of his identity. 

I am almost positive that the "mom" he keeps talking to doesn't exist. The postcards she supposedly was sending him looked a lot like the postcards being sold at the gift shop where he works, and we never heard anyone actually speaking to him.

Edited April 3, 2022 by tennisgurl

[RedElf]

11 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I know nothing about this character, didn't even know they existed until it was announced as a show. And all I know is that he is basically considered Marvel's Batman with DID.

In the comics, Steven is a billionaire playboy.  I guess they didn't want the Batman comparisons, so they changed his character.

 

[lynxfx]

I thought it was one of the best intros for a character I know zero about. I'm excited to see where this goes. 

Probably a low chance but I would love if episode 2 shows Marc's side of this episode filling in the blackouts.

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, lynxfx said:

I thought it was one of the best intros for a character I know zero about. I'm excited to see where this goes. 

Probably a low chance but I would love if episode 2 shows Marc's side of this episode filling in the blackouts.

There's six episodes.  I don't want to spend one of them just to see the other side of this first episode.  I like the way it went with poor Steven doing his best, blacking out and finding some problems lethally solved.  I also liked Hawke doing the judgement thing to Steven and then clearly being freaked out himself.

And the most evil, terrifying villain in the MCU is clearly Donna, the mean gift shop boss.

[lynxfx]

35 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I don't want to spend one of them just to see the other side of this first episode

It doesn’t need to be the whole episode but it would show what Marc is up too for multiple day blackouts. That isn't waisted story to show. Plus it would include some cool action pieces during the truck chase for instance.

[angora]

I wouldn't necessarily want to revisit the events of this episode from Marc's perspective, but it'd be nice to get at least one episode this season where we follow Marc instead of Steven. Besides obviously getting the more action-y stuff, it'd be interesting to see their different perceptions of their lives together. Clearly, Marc is aware of their system while Steven isn't, but how far does that awareness extend? Does he know everything that's going on when Steven's at the front of the body, or does he experience blackouts too? I liked that, while the third guy in their headspace kept belittling Steven, Marc seemed to have a lot more patience for him during their brief exchange at the end of the episode. It was a dangerous, pressure-filled situation and time was of the essence, but Marc didn't yell at Steven or call him an idiot. He just calmly insisted that he could protect them both and asked Steven to let him front.

If anyone's interested in learning more about DID, here's a nice explainer/resource thread someone made for DID Awareness Day earlier this month:

 

[Wynterwolf]

4 hours ago, lynxfx said:

It doesn’t need to be the whole episode but it would show what Marc is up too for multiple day blackouts. That isn't waisted story to show. Plus it would include some cool action pieces during the truck chase for instance.

I didn't pick this up until I watched it a second time, but I'm assuming Marc (and Salieri) was(were) breaking into Arthur's castle to steal the bug. Then Marc got tossed (or jumped) out a window and that's when Steven woke up. I suspect finding out what the bug is and why it's important will be the story going forward, and we'll see Marc in action then, but I think what happened in this ep was just about Marc getting the bug. 

 

I thoroughly enjoyed it on first viewing, and also intrigued enough to watch it again. Some things were much clearer on second viewing (like the whole fish fin thing. Poor fish!!).

I basically just knew the character has DID, and that Egyptian gods play a role and that's it and I'm actually enjoying the way things were teased in the first ep. It's also giving me sort of an old school Indiana Jones vibe which I'm finding fun.  LOVED the car chase with the Wham soundtrack, and I'm finding Steven's lost time transitions really interesting and effective.  

Definitely agree that Steven's 'mom' is just a way for Marc (et al? or someone else?) to know what Steven is up to, since so far it's just him leaving voicemail messages. And I wonder if the whole 'Judgement' schtick that Arthur is playing is just a ruse to have an excuse to suck people dry for energy? I don't know... but I'm very much game to stick around and find out. 

[SnarkShark]

I spent most of the episode asking myself what PURPOSE an idiot like Steven could serve as an alternate personality (even to non-comics readers it HAD to be pretty obvious he wasn't the original).  But I got it when he passed that Scales test.  Makes perfect sense. 

But you have to wonder long term what you do with such a millstone, the leech there just to pass a purity test from a God, once that becomes irrelevant. 

[magdalene]

Is anything in this episode real? Is it all in his head? It didn't really grab me. Part of the problem is that I may have seen the trailer too many times and nothing surprised me. I also think they over-sold the horror elements so far. 

I don't like his costume, very bland looking.

[SnarkShark]

3 hours ago, magdalene said:

Is anything in this episode real? Is it all in his head? It didn't really grab me. Part of the problem is that I may have seen the trailer too many times and nothing surprised me. I also think they over-sold the horror elements so far. 

I don't like his costume, very bland looking.

The only things that were totally unreal I think were the projections from Khonsu to him, stuff like the Earthquakes or the superimposition on top of things like the old lady looking like Khonsu.   A lot of other stuff counts as unreal but based in truth, stuff that's real communication but not physical, like Marc talking to him in the mirror.  Marc is really speaking to him, but obviously he's not actually breaking physics and taking over a mirror. Of course it's complicated by the fact that Marc seems to pre-exist Steven. Meaning you could argue Steven isn't real.  Ergo, in that sense, nothing from his POV being real, if you believe an Alter isn't a real person.

The costume wasn't ideal.  That said, it's not clear how often we'll even see it. Probably only when he's fighting CGI monsters vs humans. 

[johntfs]

On 3/31/2022 at 4:02 PM, lynxfx said:

It doesn’t need to be the whole episode but it would show what Marc is up too for multiple day blackouts. That isn't waisted story to show. Plus it would include some cool action pieces during the truck chase for instance.

Figure there's going to be a lot more action set-pieces featuring Marc in upcoming episodes.  They don't need to re-visit episode one.

 

17 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

Of course it's complicated by the fact that Marc seems to pre-exist Steven. Meaning you could argue Steven isn't real.  Ergo, in that sense, nothing from his POV being real, if you believe an Alter isn't a real person.

You could argue that Steven isn't "real" but I think it's a BS argument.  With the Ammit handshake I think we have something like proof that Steven is a real soul to the point that his presence confused Ammit into retreat.

[Wynterwolf]

On 3/31/2022 at 11:57 PM, SnarkShark said:

But you have to wonder long term what you do with such a millstone, the leech there just to pass a purity test from a God, once that becomes irrelevant. 

Do you mean from a character sense or from a storytelling sense?

 

(I've been reading some about DID, so if I get any of this wrong, please correct me) As far as I understand, Steven is an alter and is absolutely real. So is Marc. They are a system. Each alter within the system is a real, individual person. They just share a body and mind, potentially with other alters. I think Arthur saw "chaos" in Steven because of the other alter(s). But based on the few things I've read about the show, Salieri isn't an alter, he's the Egyptian god? But we just don't know how he and Marc got linked yet. DID is caused by trauma, usually at an early age, so it seems likely that Steven and Marc existed as individuals before Salieri came into the picture. Or, whatever caused the link with Salieri was part of the trauma that caused the DID.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Wynterwolf

[Morrigan2575]

I really enjoyed the episode. 

I'm curious if Steven is a Marc alter or give versa. Also curious if the solution existed before the merge with Khonsu or as a result.

I don't think Steven is calling his mother but, I do wonder who he is leaving messages with. 

[krankydoodle]

That restaurant scene was heartbreaking.

I was surprised by how rough they made Ethan Hawke look. He was effectively creepy.

I liked it a lot and with only six episodes, I'm hoping it'll avoid the pitfalls of some of the other Marvel shows that seemed padded out.

[SnarkShark]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I really enjoyed the episode. 

I'm curious if Steven is a Marc alter or give versa. Also curious if the solution existed before the merge with Khonsu or as a result.

I don't think Steven is calling his mother but, I do wonder who he is leaving messages with. 

They could be setting up a twist (and what's in the comics is irrelevant so I won't even bring it up, other than to point out Steven doesn't even have the same personality as in the comics so we definitely can't use it as a hard and fast guide).  Anyway, we see obvious suggestions Steven is not the original personality.  He's referred to as a parasite by Khonsu.  His life is very surface only.  His mother is suspiciously only a voice mail.  His Flat is actually suspicious, because it seems too big, too grand for what we know of him (as if someone far more successful would have to be paying for it--Marc or another Alter, but if so When and Why).  Steven and his life seem artificial, albeit not as a fantasy but instead as a placeholder of a life.

In addition, Steven SEEMS to exist to neutralize or balance the darkness of someone as dangerous as the little we see of Marc.  We literally see him tested, and while its not clear to me if he tested balanced or positive (I'll have to look a lot closer) it IS clear his clueless innocence allowed that test of the enemy to be passed.  

But, they could be playing to our assumptions and flip this on us.  

We shall see. 

 

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, SnarkShark said:

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by SnarkShark

[WatchrTina]

On 3/30/2022 at 6:16 PM, HelloooKitty said:

Steven (with a v) is SO confused.

So am I.  But I'll watch it again when the second episode drops and maybe I'll understand more.

My initial reaction is that I think the main character's back-story shares a few plot points with another Marvel character -- Venom -- right down to the ruthless, deep voice in the head giving directions to save the protagonist's ass.  But other than that they are nothing alike so, no complaints from me.  I'm on board for the ride.

 

On 3/31/2022 at 9:18 AM, tennisgurl said:

I wonder if Steven is really the original personality or if its Marc who's the original personality,

Huh.  Well, it's only by reading this board that I discovered that there two separate personalities for Oscar Issac's character that were introduced in this episode.  (Oh, so THAT'S why he doesn't remember inviting the woman to dinner and why he loses entire days.)  Yep, DEFINITELY have to watch this again.

Edited April 4, 2022 by WatchrTina

[margol29]

Is there golden man a part is the story or just a prop for Steven to talk to?

[Wynterwolf]

1 hour ago, margol29 said:

Is there golden man a part is the story or just a prop for Steven to talk to?

Gold guy is based on the comics character Bertrand Crawley. It's too soon to tell if he'll be more than just a sounding board for Steven, but I suspect he will eventually. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 4/2/2022 at 4:57 AM, johntfs said:

You could argue that Steven isn't "real" but I think it's a BS argument.  With the Ammit handshake I think we have something like proof that Steven is a real soul to the point that his presence confused Ammit into retreat.

When Arthur took Steven's hands, he was murmuring to him about how the voice inside his (Steven's) head was relentless, no matter how hard he tried to placate it, it was never quiet. He also said that he was certain 'Steven Grant' was an alias, since he recognized him in the little village he woke up in, that he was surprised to find out he really did work at a museum gift shop. So either he knows about Marc being Steven's passenger, as it were, or.....something similar. Did Ammit tell him, or did he suss it out on his own through tracking him down? Because after the handshake, he says, "There's chaos in you." which must have been why he tells the others to let him go.

[Camera One]

I went into this knowing nothing about the character or the story, and it was intriguing.  The main character was likeable and the episode kept my attention despite not making much sense.  

[AnimeMania]

A fight scene that they decided to remove from Episode 1 of Moon Knight.

[Scarlett45]

This is a Marvel property I’m wholly unfamiliar with, but Oscar Isaac is quite talented and it should be a fun ride.