S06.E09: The Hill

[gonzosgirrl]

27 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Toby's work-life balance is out of whack at the moment.  I know being the new guy, it can be a challenge to establish boundaries with his coworkers, but is he going to continue with taking work calls at all hours?  What life is Kate going to have in SF?  How present is he going to be in their new life?  Toby can tell her that he will set up boundaries and block out hours to be with them, but what guarantee does Kate have that he will follow through on this?  Their marriage is broken at the point, and needs more than Kate moving to SF to fix it.

I don't disagree that just moving to SF would fix this, but Toby has been flying back and forth twice a week (four flights were mentioned), so it isn't like he hasn't been making an effort here. They are painting a picture for what they want us to feel: Kate is right and Toby is wrong. Are we supposed to believe that he is on his bluetooth 24/7 when he's home? Unrealistic. And why haven't they (apparently) had sex in months? IMO his only real dick move was in the ultimatum at the end. Even in that, 'the facts' weren't wrong, but the presentation of them was, 100%. As bad as not telling her about the job offer may have been (and I'm not convinced it was*), Kate preferring her obese, depressed but totally focused on her 'Old Toby' is pretty low down.

 

*If you believe it was indeed a terrible offer, and I do, then no, I don't blame Toby for not opening up a pointless can of worms with his wife.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't disagree that just moving to SF would fix this, but Toby has been flying back and forth twice a week (four flights were mentioned), so it isn't like he hasn't been making an effort here. They are painting a picture for what they want us to feel: Kate is right and Toby is wrong. Are we supposed to believe that he is on his bluetooth 24/7 when he's home? Unrealistic. And why haven't they (apparently) had sex in months? IMO his only real dick move was in the ultimatum at the end. Even in that, 'the facts' weren't wrong, but the presentation of them was, 100%. As bad as not telling her about the job offer may have been (and I'm not convinced it was*), Kate preferring her obese, depressed but totally focused on her 'Old Toby' is pretty low down.

 

*If you believe it was indeed a terrible offer, and I do, then no, I don't blame Toby for not opening up a pointless can of worms with his wife.

The fact that Toby took the work call almost immediately after sex makes me think he is going to be a slave to his Airpods.  I get that there are ebbs and flows with work and deadlines that have to be met for certain projects, but Toby knew Kate was coming and he failed to take off work for one night.  

[ams1001]

11 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The fact that Toby took the work call almost immediately after sex makes me think he is going to be a slave to his Airpods.  I get that there are ebbs and flows with work and deadlines that have to be met for certain projects, but Toby knew Kate was coming and he failed to take off work for one night.  

He was also on a call during their day out in SF (while complaining that she was facetiming the kids and not focusing solely on him).

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

 I get that there are ebbs and flows with work and deadlines that have to be met for certain projects, but Toby knew Kate was coming and he failed to take off work for one night.  

True enough.

ETA: I admit to being biased against Kate right now. I agree that Toby has made some bad choices (as written this season), although IMO they have all been from a place of love and desire to make a better life for his family (and yes, he is included in that family). But it also seems to me that he has been the one making an effort to make Kate happy throughout the seasons, going as far as stopping the meds that kept him mentally-healthy in order for them to conceive. I can't really think of a compromise or concession on Kate's part, apart from 'allowing' him to take this job in SF to begin with.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by gonzosgirrl

[MBayGal]

On 3/27/2022 at 7:57 AM, GeorgiaRai said:

JOOLUO (Just one old lady's unpopular opinion)

New acronym for the win!!!

[MBayGal]

20 hours ago, Jersey409 said:

I wasn’t sure where they were going with Kate going up that hill- I was actually thinking they were going to write in a third heart attack for the show.  I come from a family of heavy women and if my aunt doesn’t get a control on herself, she is going to be looking like Kate soon. My aunt is covered in sweat and winded just from climbing up three steps to reach the front door of the house  or from the physical effort of trying on different types of shirts in a fitting room.  That hill would have been one hell of a triumph, also as someone mentioned before- taking care of small kids.  Loading the stroller in and out of the car, fastening car seat harnesses, stooping low to bathe kids and lift them out of the bath, diaper changes -all physically demanding and hard work.

 

I wondered if Chrissy actually walked up the hill, or if it was some CGI  manipulation or green screen or some other filming magic. We certainly didn't actually see her walk up that whole hill.  I'm a few decades older than her and only about 30 pounds overweight, and that hill would kill me.  

As to your point about caring for kids--we have never seen her doing any of the things you mentioned.  It's only in TV fantasyland that Chrissy/Kate can handle those tasks.

[mostlylurking]

On 3/24/2022 at 2:35 AM, himela said:

The only thing I find unrealistic with Kate is her getting pregnant.

As someone who went through IVF and a lot of fertility issues, I agree with this.  I can not see a fertility clinic agreeing to take Kate on as a patient at her current weight.  I knew at least two patients at my clinic that were told they needed to lose 50lbs to even be considered for treatment and they were nowhere near as big as Kate.

On 3/24/2022 at 6:55 AM, BlancheDevoreaux said:

In all seriousness, casting has been one of the best parts of this show.

Yes!  I’ve said this so many times through the course of this series.  The casting is amazing.  All the younger actors look like the older actors and even have a lot of the same mannerisms.  Everyone looks like they could be related.  It’s really uncanny.

[Rootbeer]

17 hours ago, pennben said:

Every single day since Toby turned down the job, he has violated a promise they made he would look to find a job back in LA. Every single day since then he has lied to his wife. I’m sure there have been conversations about looking in the interim. I am sure he has not. Every single day, I think, for months. He’s done that before. Lied for days on end to her about things he doesn’t want to have a conversation about. And now, after repeatedly shattering her trust (she’s now just processing all the lying), he issues ‘what else could we possibly do but move here?’ a ‘my way or highway’ ultimatum. 

I recall them agreeing that he would look for a job in LA.  I don't recall Toby agreeing that he would take any old job that was offered at any old salary.  And I don't recall Kate asking for that, either.  I agree, he should've told her about the job offer before turning it down, but I don't agree that he was obligated to take whatever he could find just so Kate could stay in LA.

 

11 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

As someone who went through IVF and a lot of fertility issues, I agree with this.  I can not see a fertility clinic agreeing to take Kate on as a patient at her current weight.  I knew at least two patients at my clinic that were told they needed to lose 50lbs to even be considered for treatment and they were nowhere near as big as Kate.

I recently took care of a woman who weighed over 400 lbs who was in the midst of treatment prior to undergoing IVF, so there are physicians who will take patients such as Kate.  As a doctor myself, one who doesn't do IVF, I personally would have a problem with that.  I am also obese, BTW, though not Kate's size.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Dreamboat Annie]

Ah Kate and Toby.  It was hard for me to choose a side until near the end.  Toby decided it was ultimatum time, and basically said it was over unless she and the kids moved there (it was almost a relief.  Someone had to say it and he did).  My impression was it was over before Kate landed in SF.  Those two were completely detached from each other.  The house blindsiding didn't even do it.  They were over before that, and that just solidified it.  Maybe Toby thought that if she saw the cute house she'd be all in.  But she wasn't in it at all.  And, understandably, the fact that it was new to her and not feeling real new to Toby really pissed her off.  It surely didn't help.  But nothing would have helped because her heart was not in it.  Kate and Toby love each other but in the end, it wasn't a strong enough love for them to stay together.

And there was Kate at the end, deciding to take control of her life.  She climbed up that hill, not just to spite what Toby said, but because she finally felt in control.  Boy, Beck's pep talk was profound.  I wonder how it will affect Randall and soon we shall see.  

I didn't think I would, but I'm enjoying the teen big three's pool scenes.  Probably because I don't think we've seen much of just the three of them alone together as teens after Jack's death.  

I thought Kate/Chrissy looked really, really good in this episode.  Not just her face, which looked great.  Have we ever seen her sleeveless before this?  Or even that much of her bare arms?  Her top half looks much smaller than previously.  I wonder if she has lost weight and they're padding her bottom half.  She looked really lovely.  Is it just me?  Is it just my gummies?  Maybe it's because I'm still humming my favourite Bread songs (and Guitar Man isn't one of them, lol).  

 

[peeayebee]

10 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

** why we need this show to be realistic in this particular storyline after Randall's swim with his ghost mom is something I do not understand.

Point taken. 🤣

[Pattycake2]

After being an unemployed for sometime, Toby finds turns out to be his dream job in another city. A job where he is appreciated and he makes a lot of money. He finds a great house for his family.  In all probability, Kate won’t have to work.  She would be available to volunteer at a school for the blind, if she wanted to do so.  But Kate doesn’t want to make this change.  She prefers schlumpy, insecure Old Toby because she feels schlumpy and insecure.  Toby works too much and has changed.  He eats vegan barbecue and runs 5k races.  I think he works constantly because 1) he wants to make good, and 2) he’s alone for most of the week.  Same reason he’s eating vegan bbq.  The people at work are his only social circle. So when he gets invited out to eat vegan, etc., he goes.  If his family was with him, I think things would balance out.  What are the pluses- He loves Kate. He loves the kids.  A great job. A really good house. Kate wouldn’t have to work and would have more time with the kids.  Doesn’t sound so terrible to me.  Their current communication issues and arguments?  Heck, that’s marriage.  Work on it.  
I’m also confused by Kate not knowing Toby’s salary.  Isn’t it automatically deposited in their bank account?

[mostlylurking]

6 minutes ago, Pattycake2 said:

After being an unemployed for sometime, Toby finds turns out to be his dream job in another city. A job where he is appreciated and he makes a lot of money. He finds a great house for his family.  In all probability, Kate won’t have to work.  She would be available to volunteer at a school for the blind, if she wanted to do so.  But Kate doesn’t want to make this change.  She prefers schlumpy, insecure Old Toby because she feels schlumpy and insecure.  Toby works too much and has changed.  He eats vegan barbecue and runs 5k races.  I think he works constantly because 1) he wants to make good, and 2) he’s alone for most of the week.  Same reason he’s eating vegan bbq.  The people at work are his only social circle. So when he gets invited out to eat vegan, etc., he goes.  If his family was with him, I think things would balance out.  What are the pluses- He loves Kate. He loves the kids.  A great job. A really good house. Kate wouldn’t have to work and would have more time with the kids.  Doesn’t sound so terrible to me.  Their current communication issues and arguments?  Heck, that’s marriage.  Work on it.  
I’m also confused by Kate not knowing Toby’s salary.  Isn’t it automatically deposited in their bank account?

100% to everything you said!  Honestly, I don’t  think Toby did anything wrong. I also don’t think he’s changed all that much. The good parts of Toby are still there (corny sense of humor, over the top gestures). But he’s improved himself. I see nothing wrong with that. 

[chocolatine]

24 minutes ago, Pattycake2 said:

I’m also confused by Kate not knowing Toby’s salary.  Isn’t it automatically deposited in their bank account?

I think she knows Toby's salary for the SF job. She wanted him to tell her the salary for the LA job offer that he turned down without telling her.

[himela]

What also surprised me was that Kate had no idea who Toby's coleagues were. I mean, I can't imagine me not talking to my husband about my boss, his name, his age, is he married, etc, my colleagues and all this and vice versa. Kate met Toby's boss and didn't even know he is very young. This shows me that their communication as a couple when he is away but also when he is at home with them is limited to every day talk like who will feed the kids, who will buy grocery etc. Don't they spend sometime at the end of the day just discuss various stuff?

[debraran]

5 minutes ago, himela said:

What also surprised me was that Kate had no idea who Toby's coleagues were. I mean, I can't imagine me not talking to my husband about my boss, his name, his age, is he married, etc, my colleagues and all this and vice versa. Kate met Toby's boss and didn't even know he is very young. This shows me that their communication as a couple when he is away but also when he is at home with them is limited to every day talk like who will feed the kids, who will buy grocery etc. Don't they spend sometime at the end of the day just discuss various stuff?

 That's what I thought too, I know it's TV but they could allude to talks they had. Was everything the same 5 min time limit Jack did with his Mom...no Skype calls after kids were in bed, no longer conversation than saying Hi to the kids? Every day would be odd but at least once a week for him to talk about job etc and her to tell him what's going on besides a new food Hailey ate.

Edited March 29, 2022 by debraran

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

 That's what I thought too, I know it's TV but they could allude to talks they had. Was everything the same 5 min time limit Jack did with his Mom...no Skype calls after kids were in bed, no longer conversation than saying Hi to the kids? Every day would be odd but at least once a week for him to talk about job etc and her to tell him what's going on besides a new food Hailey ate.

I know Kate wanted to come to SF to reconnect, so their lack of intimacy on all levels is something both are aware of. Kate alludes to it when she says "I miss this" after sex and wanting to watch some Netflix in bed with Toby.  I don't want to debate who's more at fault in this again, but when one partner is lying by omission he's going to be less forthcoming on all fronts.  

[gonzosgirrl]

4 hours ago, himela said:

What also surprised me was that Kate had no idea who Toby's colleagues were. I mean, I can't imagine me not talking to my husband about my boss, his name, his age, is he married, etc, my colleagues and all this and vice versa. Kate met Toby's boss and didn't even know he is very young. This shows me that their communication as a couple when he is away but also when he is at home with them is limited to every day talk like who will feed the kids, who will buy grocery etc. Don't they spend sometime at the end of the day just discuss various stuff?

This says to me that Kate was never interested enough to ask, and Toby probably didn't volunteer the information since he's already getting shade from Kate and Kevin about being too involved/obsessed with his job. But his work friends and boss seemed to know all about Kate and the kids, and he obviously bragged about her/them and spoke in glowing terms. I'm sorry - Kate, in my opinion, is both selfish and self-sabotaging.

[kili]

Did Kate ever learn to swim? I was thinking back to the other pool episodes and it's mostly friend drama for Kate.

I'm not even sure that Kevin learned to swim, but at least we see him in the water at a later date. It seemed in his episode last week that he'd never achieved the goal of touching the drain in the local pool (he finally gets to touch it when it is drained), so maybe neither learned.

Strange to have one kid who swims like a fish and two who can't swim at all.

[ljenkins782]

On 3/27/2022 at 9:49 AM, himela said:

Quote

Kate bashing aside, that character is almost criminally under-developed compared to the story arcs of the brothers. Both Randall and Kevin would be able to carry a stand-alone series based on their own life experiences, from teen years to adulthood. Can you imagine a show solely dedicated to Kate’s life?

It's the exact opposite for me. Kate's character is someone I could see most people relating to because every person has something that they feel keeps them back. For Kate it's the weight, for someone else could be some other physical flaw or something they had after an accident.

What is interesting about Kevin? He is a narcisist who is used to get everything he wants just by being pretty. He was the one person out of the three who made the most money doing the least. At least Kate was serving tables for 10 years, this is no joke and especially with her weight problem, she must have suffered from back problems etc.

And Randall? Well ok, he is the classic know-it-all who has to be right all the time. Nothing interesting there for me either :P

I read this a lot in this board, but this doesn't happen with Beth and Randall nor with Kevin and Sophie for example. Beth is loved by everyone and also Sophie is the favorite between Kevin and her. So I don't really see the writers wanting to show that the Big three are not villains sometimes.

Yeah, Kate's story is actually quite realistic, especially when they flash back to teen Kate's admission that she didn't have dreams. Those aimless years of waiting tables and half-heartedly taking college courses make sense for her character, it's hard to drive yourself when you don't really know where you want to go. No, it wouldn't make for an interesting TV show to follow her through those years, but it's realistic. 

Quote

Meanwhile, Toby has a history of depression, and being unhappy in a previous job was a big contributing factor.  He has now found a job that he loves and that pays really well, better than any job he has ever had; enough that they can afford to move to one of the most expensive towns in the US.  But, he should roll the dice, take whatever job he can get at less pay, as long as it is in LA so that Kate can continue to work part time for minimum wage at a job because she likes it?  Does not compute.

I'm guessing Toby's history has a similar path to Kate's, minus the one defining moment (in Kate's case, Jack's death) that he could pin his depression on. 

So they're both late bloomers in the sense of finding their purpose or passion, so I can understand why they both want to keep their respective situations. But it's unfortunate that there are children involved already when they hit these points in their lives because they do need to prioritize the kids, when they both clearly want to put themselves first because this is their first experience at finding themselves. 

There's no good solution, but realistically, I have to side with Toby keeping his job since he is the one supporting them all. It's very nice to think that one can just chase their dreams endlessly, but in real life, things like paying the bills are a factor. Kate enjoying her part-time job and walks to the park are only being made possible by Toby's hard work, so there is some responsibility for compromise on her part, IMO.

[Jersey409]

On 3/28/2022 at 8:16 PM, MBayGal said:

I wondered if Chrissy actually walked up the hill, or if it was some CGI  manipulation or green screen or some other filming magic. We certainly didn't actually see her walk up that whole hill.  I'm a few decades older than her and only about 30 pounds overweight, and that hill would kill me.  

As to your point about caring for kids--we have never seen her doing any of the things you mentioned.  It's only in TV fantasyland that Chrissy/Kate can handle those tasks.

I wondered the same thing , If she climbed it. I’ve never been to San Francisco - the people must be in good shape to be getting around. 
Definitely fantasyland- they don’t show Kate do those things but it is kinda implied considering her babysitter is only good at watching the kids when they’re sleeping 😂

 

another fantasy land- what does Madison do? How does she have a house of her own in los angeles? It seemed kinda implied that her dad makes a lot of money- maybe he bought it for her and now she has Kevin to bank from —-but before ? California is crazy expensive 

[Jersey409]

On 3/28/2022 at 4:07 AM, mansonlamps said:

I posted about this in an earlier episode and I agree with you.  People want "representation" but not in reality. There is zero representation of the reality of being Kate's size which you have pointed out.

 

Yes , not to be cruel- but these last few seasons- without her hair and makeup done, she looks like a person that would be on the doctor nowzaradan show.

[CrystalBlue]

5 hours ago, kili said:

Did Kate ever learn to swim? I was thinking back to the other pool episodes and it's mostly friend drama for Kate.

I'm not even sure that Kevin learned to swim, but at least we see him in the water at a later date. It seemed in his episode last week that he'd never achieved the goal of touching the drain in the local pool (he finally gets to touch it when it is drained), so maybe neither learned.

Strange to have one kid who swims like a fish and two who can't swim at all.

You would think that all three of them would be taken to the same swimming class whether it's at the YMCA, or wherever children are taught to swim.  Public pools and schools have swimming lessons.

[mostlylurking]

5 hours ago, Jersey409 said:

I wondered if Chrissy actually walked up the hill, or if it was some CGI  manipulation or green screen or some other filming magic. We certainly didn't actually see her walk up that whole hill.  I'm a few decades older than her and only about 30 pounds overweight, and that hill would kill me.  

As to your point about caring for kids--we have never seen her doing any of the things you mentioned.  It's only in TV fantasyland that Chrissy/Kate can handle those tasks.

I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that Kate/Chrissy could climb that hill.  With a lot of breaks and pacing, probably a lot of people could do it.  

However, I’m starting to think that the writers don’t want us to think Kate is as heavy as Chrissy is.  Like pregnant actresses playing a role where the character isn’t pregnant, or like actors pretending to be different ethnicities.  English actors playing American with “American” accents. That sort of thing.  I don’t think Kate is supposed to be extremely obese.  Because if she was written that way, it would literally consume every aspect of her life, from big things like getting on an airplane to small things like tying her shoes.  Never mind how insanely difficult (impossible?) it would be to care for two small kids.  I can see why Chrissy wouldn’t want this constant reminder constantly written the script, and also it wouldn’t be entertaining for the audience.  But I honestly feel like we are supposed to be suspending belief here and Kate is not as obese as Chrissy.  If any of that makes sense, ha!

Edited March 30, 2022 by mostlylurking

[Lone Wolf]

10 hours ago, debraran said:

 That's what I thought too, I know it's TV but they could allude to talks they had. Was everything the same 5 min time limit Jack did with his Mom...no Skype calls after kids were in bed, no longer conversation than saying Hi to the kids? 

In which case the question becomes, who said "Don't let me keep you" first?

Turned out they both did.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Lone Wolf

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, CrystalBlue said:

You would think that all three of them would be taken to the same swimming class whether it's at the YMCA, or wherever children are taught to swim. 

Rebecca and Jack tried, I think - Rebecca said something like “if you’d taken the lessons at the Y you’d be able to go off the diving board” or something like that, so I assume Kevin didn’t want lessons. (I learned at the Y, and my parents are both great swimmers who love the water.)

2 hours ago, Jersey409 said:

another fantasy land- what does Madison do? How does she have a house of her own in los angeles? It seemed kinda implied that her dad makes a lot of money- maybe he bought it for her and now she has Kevin to bank from —-but before ? California is crazy expensive 

This has come up before; I’ve assumed family money. The show hasn’t mentioned Kevin supporting her, although he said “we gave the nanny two weeks off” so I assume he’s at least splitting the cost of child care with her. The house she lives in was hers (rented or owned, we don’t know) before she met the Pearsons so I wouldn’t think Kevin is contributing financially there.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Rebecca and Jack tried, I think - Rebecca said something like “if you’d taken the lessons at the Y you’d be able to go off the diving board” or something like that, so I assume Kevin didn’t want lessons. (I learned at the Y, and my parents are both great swimmers who love the water.)

Yeah, it was at least implied that they were all taken for lessons but only Randall was really willing to learn. 

We learned from the neighbor's teenage daughter when I was 4. The neighbors on either side of us had in-ground pools (with high fences); my aunt and uncle also had one and there were many summertime family parties at their house (and a family friend's house, as well). We got an above ground pool when my brother and I were a little older but my parents made sure we knew how to swim before we got one of our own.

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, Jersey409 said:

I wondered the same thing , If she climbed it. I’ve never been to San Francisco - the people must be in good shape to be getting around. 
Definitely fantasyland- they don’t show Kate do those things but it is kinda implied considering her babysitter is only good at watching the kids when they’re sleeping 😂

 

another fantasy land- what does Madison do? How does she have a house of her own in los angeles? It seemed kinda implied that her dad makes a lot of money- maybe he bought it for her and now she has Kevin to bank from —-but before ? California is crazy expensive 

Madison is like a cipher that only exists as needed by the Pearsons.

She has no friends or family. Unlike Kate, who has been provided for by men all her life, Madison has never had any man love her, including Kevin.

2 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that Kate/Chrissy could climb that hill.  With a lot of breaks and pacing, probably a lot of people could do it.  

However, I’m starting to think that the writers don’t want us to think Kate is as heavy as Chrissy is.  Like women who are pregnant acting in a role where the character isn’t pregnant, or like actors pretending to be different ethnicities.  English actors playing American. That sort of thing.  I don’t think Kate is supposed to be extremely obese.  Because if she was written that way, it would literally consume every aspect of her life, from big things like getting on an airplane to small things like tying her shoes.  Never mind how insanely difficult/impossible it would be to care for two small kids.  I can see why Chrissy wouldn’t want this constant reminder constantly written the script, and also it wouldn’t be entertaining for the audience.  But I honestly feel like we are supposed to be suspending belief here and Kate is not as obese as Chrissy.  If any of that makes sense, ha!

I'm going to say that if they had realized the backlash they would receive due to the weight loss clause of her contract then they would have never cast Chrissy because they have been at a loss as to what they can do with the character since the weight angle has been dropped.

[OlderThanDirt]

When they were leaving the cabin at Thanksgiving didn't Kate say "this living in two cities is  not sustainable ', so she was going to come to SF for the weekend.  Given that, I think Toby was justified in anticipating that she was considering moving and so he found a house that could accommodate a move. Plus having two young children so close in age with the physical demands of both Kate and Jack, might mean she'll have to delay her career goals for five years or so. Choices have already been made that have consequences. Some of us learned in the 80s and 90s that we cannot in fact have it all, at the same time.

Edited March 29, 2022 by OlderThanDirt

[Empress1]

52 minutes ago, OlderThanDirt said:

Some of us learned in the 80s and 90s that we cannot in fact have it all, at the same time.

When I was 20 or 21, a family friend told me “you can have it all but you can’t have it all at the same time.” I’ve never forgotten that, and the older I get the more I know it to be true. There’s always ebb and flow.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, OlderThanDirt said:

When they were leaving the cabin at Thanksgiving didn't Kate say "this living in two cities is  not sustainable ', so she was going to come to SF for the weekend.  Given that, I think Toby was justified in anticipating that she was considering moving and so he found a house that could accommodate a move. Plus having two young children so close in age with the physical demands of both Kate and Jack, might mean she'll have to delay her career goals for five years or so. Choices have already been made that have consequences. Some of us learned in the 80s and 90s that we cannot in fact have it all, at the same time.

He did more than just find a house.  He found time to do all the leg work for both selling their current house and buy the one house he wants, and they had a short deadline on putting in an offer.  He put Kate on the spot.  He didn't plan on giving Kate a choice on the home where she would be spending all of her time.  That grand gesture was done to pressure her into saying yes to what he wanted instead of both of them looking at Zillow links and deciding together on their new home.

[ams1001]

33 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

He did more than just find a house.  He found time to do all the leg work for both selling their current house and buy the one house he wants, and they had a short deadline on putting in an offer.  He put Kate on the spot.  He didn't plan on giving Kate a choice on the home where she would be spending all of her time.  That grand gesture was done to pressure her into saying yes to what he wanted instead of both of them looking at Zillow links and deciding together on their new home.

Thank you! I was trying to write a comment about this and I couldn't quite get it worded right. 

[Zonk]

On 3/23/2022 at 12:23 PM, greekmom said:

Honestly, I wanted to hear the numbers of the LA job vs the SF job.  I'm betting a cup of joe that the difference wasn't all that much and for Toby it's the prestige of being someone at the SF company for the first time.   Like Kate saw, this Toby dresses super spiffy in designer clothes, does marathons (or at least 5k runs) and works constantly.

It also didn't sound like he ever made a counter offer. He just rejected the job offer outright. If he wasn't that keen on the LA job he could have totally said "Look at my current job I'm getting payed X, if you really want me, your are going to have to beat that."

If that had failed, it also wouldn't have looked as bad as it does now.

Seems to me the writers did everything this episode they could to throw Toby under the bus. Kate is right, this isn't the old Toby anymore, this is basically a different character. I just don't believe that change happened organically, I think the writers forced it.

[Guest]

Please make sure the focus of your post is the episode of This is Us entitled The Hill. Thank you.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

15 hours ago, Zonk said:

It also didn't sound like he ever made a counter offer. He just rejected the job offer outright. If he wasn't that keen on the LA job he could have totally said "Look at my current job I'm getting payed X, if you really want me, your are going to have to beat that."

They really left a lot unexplained in their efforts to run the bus over Toby, IMO. How did his current boss even know about the offer? To me, that implies that perhaps Toby told him and current boss made it even more lucrative for Toby to stay? I can't see an employee saying hey, this other company wants me but obviously doesn't think I'm worth more than $X - it doesn't make sense.

[himela]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

How did his current boss even know about the offer?

My understanding was that it was the same company that offered him to work in LA instead of SF.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, himela said:

My understanding was that it was the same company that offered him to work in LA instead of SF.

No, it was definitely a different company.

[smartymarty]

On 3/28/2022 at 11:31 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

The fact that Toby took the work call almost immediately after sex makes me think he is going to be a slave to his Airpods.  I get that there are ebbs and flows with work and deadlines that have to be met for certain projects, but Toby knew Kate was coming and he failed to take off work for one night.  

In demanding jobs like this, with clients in different time zones, and especially considering Toby has only been in the job for three months, one does not take the weekend off. Particularly not just for a handful of phone calls that I'll assume took less than 1/2 an hour since they would have showed us had they taken a lot of the time during that day. Damn, I advise my nieces and nephews not to take any time off for the first 6 months of a job. You're still earning your stripes.

On 3/29/2022 at 10:01 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

This says to me that Kate was never interested enough to ask, and Toby probably didn't volunteer the information since he's already getting shade from Kate and Kevin about being too involved/obsessed with his job. But his work friends and boss seemed to know all about Kate and the kids, and he obviously bragged about her/them and spoke in glowing terms. I'm sorry - Kate, in my opinion, is both selfish and self-sabotaging.

It does seem odd to me that Toby would never have told her "Geez, my new boss is pretty young, AND he sold his prior company to Google for a bundle." Put that in the "Toby and Kate not communicating well" category.

On 3/29/2022 at 8:24 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

He did more than just find a house.  He found time to do all the leg work for both selling their current house and buy the one house he wants, and they had a short deadline on putting in an offer.  He put Kate on the spot.  He didn't plan on giving Kate a choice on the home where she would be spending all of her time.  That grand gesture was done to pressure her into saying yes to what he wanted instead of both of them looking at Zillow links and deciding together on their new home.

Devil's advocate version: Toby found a house he likes for them and did all the legwork in case Kate loved it too. He's not responsible for the "must decide in two days" deadline. Had Kate not come the following weekend instead, it might not have been an option at all.

19 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

They really left a lot unexplained in their efforts to run the bus over Toby, IMO. How did his current boss even know about the offer? To me, that implies that perhaps Toby told him and current boss made it even more lucrative for Toby to stay? I can't see an employee saying hey, this other company wants me but obviously doesn't think I'm worth more than $X - it doesn't make sense.

Toby: Hey, boss. I'm so happy here I just turned down an offer at a company I'd applied to in LA that finally got back to me.

Remember, he's been at the SF job for 3 months, so the LA job took more than 3 months to make him an offer.

I did not like that Toby left Kate at the party to talk about his NBA fantasy league. There was no reason he couldn't have brought Kate over with him for that conversation. I don't mind him bringing Kate to the party in the first place, since, again, he's only been in the job 3 months so it's important not to skip things like Boss Throwing a Party.

My biggest disgust was with teenage Kate shutting down Randall and Kevin when they tried to help her think about what to do in life. "I hate Pittsburgh. I hate my life. I don't know what to do." "Well Kate, what about. . ." "No, just stop." If you don't know what you want to do, then you think about things you like to do. Like singing? Why don't you see about joining a choir, volunteering at a school music program, teaching piano? But to shut it down immediately?? I completely lost sympathy for her then. Took you 20 more years to figure it out and get an entry level job you like? Your problem, not Toby's.

As for SF versus LA, SF is where the higher earner is. Rebecca implored her kids to not let her illness hold them back from life. The SF house had room for Rebecca and Miguel to stay with K & T when visiting. Jack is only 3 years old -- he can learn a new house. I'm sure LA has programs for the blind and/or music programs also. (It doesn't really seem to me that Kate's fulfillment with her job is because the kids are blind, but because she's bringing music into their lives.)

[iChelleWatch]

On 3/29/2022 at 7:24 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

He did more than just find a house.  He found time to do all the leg work for both selling their current house and buy the one house he wants, and they had a short deadline on putting in an offer.  He put Kate on the spot.  He didn't plan on giving Kate a choice on the home where she would be spending all of her time.  That grand gesture was done to pressure her into saying yes to what he wanted instead of both of them looking at Zillow links and deciding together on their new home.

As someone who went through this very thing six years ago, I would have loved if my husband had found a house he wanted. Instead he end up leaving it to me, even though he had been living in the state for a year. 
 

I honestly just think Kate knew she didn’t want to leave LA and found any excuse to not move.

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, iChelleWatch said:

As someone who went through this very thing six years ago, I would have loved if my husband had found a house he wanted. Instead he end up leaving it to me, even though he had been living in the state for a year. 
 

I honestly just think Kate knew she didn’t want to leave LA and found any excuse to not move.

This is a total MMV situation.  As for the women in my family, we would all hate it if our husbands chose the house.  Part of this depends on your husband and how in tune he is to your needs.  Is Toby the kind of husband who thinks about things like the placement of the laundry room in a multi-story house, how practical the kitchen is, and if the bathrooms are suitable for your needs?  That house is an older home, do they have the funds ready for the inevitable repairs that have to be done?  Is there a space to safely corral Jack while Kate is fixing their meals?  The answers to these questions could be yes, I really don't know because the writers did not address any of these issues.  The fact that Toby is bringing up a trampoline as a selling point makes me pause though.

[iChelleWatch]

2 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

This is a total MMV situation.  As for the women in my family, we would all hate it if our husbands chose the house.  Part of this depends on your husband and how in tune he is to your needs.  Is Toby the kind of husband who thinks about things like the placement of the laundry room in a multi-story house, how practical the kitchen is, and if the bathrooms are suitable for your needs?  That house is an older home, do they have the funds ready for the inevitable repairs that have to be done?  Is there a space to safely corral Jack while Kate is fixing their meals?  The answers to these questions could be yes, I really don't know because the writers did not address any of these issues.  The fact that Toby is bringing up a trampoline as a selling point makes me pause though.

Totally get it. For me, we had been together for years, had already built two houses together. So, I felt that he was able to find a houses similar to our needs and wants since he was there and I was back home running around with our two teens. 
 

Honestly, I think I was just not in Kate’s corner after she started fantasizing about old Toby and really not trying to give new Toby a chance. To me Toby was really trying to show off SF to her to get her on board with it and she appeared to want to stick to the status quo. I felt like she only took the trip so she can say “she tried.”

[smartymarty]

48 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

 Part of this depends on your husband and how in tune he is to your needs.  Is Toby the kind of husband who thinks about things like the placement of the laundry room in a multi-story house, how practical the kitchen is, and if the bathrooms are suitable for your needs?

 

41 minutes ago, iChelleWatch said:

Totally get it. For me, we had been together for years, had already built two houses together. So, I felt that he was able to find a houses similar to our needs and wants since he was there and I was back home running around with our two teens.

They had picked out their LA house together, so I assume he knew what Kate wanted in a house.

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

It does seem odd to me that Toby would never have told her "Geez, my new boss is pretty young, AND he sold his prior company to Google for a bundle." Put that in the "Toby and Kate not communicating well" category.

I saw that as pretty insignificant. TV shows and movies have to leave something to be talked about in front of us. To handwave, maybe the stuff about his boss wasn't that interesting to Toby or he didn't think it would be that interesting to Kate.

 

Quote

I did not like that Toby left Kate at the party to talk about his NBA fantasy league. There was no reason he couldn't have brought Kate over with him for that conversation.

Yeah, I agree. At the least he could have gestured to Kate that she come with him and then she could decline so he could talk by himself, so we'd end up in the same place with Kate all alone at the party. But I guess we needed another reason to think Toby was in the wrong.

 

42 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Is Toby the kind of husband who thinks about things like the placement of the laundry room in a multi-story house, how practical the kitchen is, and if the bathrooms are suitable for your needs?  That house is an older home, do they have the funds ready for the inevitable repairs that have to be done?  Is there a space to safely corral Jack while Kate is fixing their meals?  The answers to these questions could be yes, I really don't know because the writers did not address any of these issues.  The fact that Toby is bringing up a trampoline as a selling point makes me pause though.

I don't understand why. It showed that he was thinking of the kids having fun. 

[Ohiopirate02]

13 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I don't understand why. It showed that he was thinking of the kids having fun. 

Fun is all good and well, but is the house practical for their needs.  I listed out a few areas that were not mentioned by Toby that I personally would consider more important.  It's an older home, I would be more worried about the last time the roof was replaced, how old is the HVAC system, are the bathrooms spacious or are they tiny rooms fitted into a home built before indoor plumbing, talking about plumbing how old is it, also the wiring, Victorians don't have closet space, I'm going to hope the house doesn't have any Victorian Death Stairs, talking about stairs can they safely employ baby gates to keep Jack and Hailey off of them, etc.  The show has already established that Toby isn't handy, do they have the funds to hire someone every time something needs replaced?  The last thing I would be thinking about is a trampoline, and neither should Toby.

[chocolatine]

I think that house was just supposed to be a starting point in their search. If Kate had said that the house wouldn't work for XYZ practical reasons, Toby would have been more than happy to keep looking.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

My biggest disgust was with teenage Kate shutting down Randall and Kevin when they tried to help her think about what to do in life. "I hate Pittsburgh. I hate my life. I don't know what to do." "Well Kate, what about. . ." "No, just stop." If you don't know what you want to do, then you think about things you like to do. Like singing? Why don't you see about joining a choir, volunteering at a school music program, teaching piano? But to shut it down immediately?? I completely lost sympathy for her then. Took you 20 more years to figure it out and get an entry level job you like? Your problem, not Toby's.

The truth is, most teens graduating high school don't know what they want to do.  Only on tv do most people know from birth they want to be doctors, weather futures financial experts, or actors.  The rest of us find a job to pay the bills while figuring things out, or go to college and take classes and later figure out what we want, or never figure things out and just end up working somewhere to pay the bills while enjoying hobbies and passions on our own time.  I was one of those people - never had a specific dream career in mind, but I started with college and 30 years later I look back at a career I couldn't have imagined when I was Kate's age.

Someone should have told Kate to get over herself and start somewhere.  Adjust course as you go along, but just start somewhere, anywhere.

[smartymarty]

22 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I listed out a few areas that were not mentioned by Toby that I personally would consider more important.  It's an older home, I would be more worried about the last time the roof was replaced, how old is the HVAC system, are the bathrooms spacious or are they tiny rooms fitted into a home built before indoor plumbing, talking about plumbing how old is it, also the wiring, Victorians don't have closet space, I'm going to hope the house doesn't have any Victorian Death Stairs, talking about stairs can they safely employ baby gates to keep Jack and Hailey off of them, etc. 

Regarding room size and stairs, Kate would see that on their tour of the house -- Toby didn't have to mention it. And Kate didn't mention any of the other issues you raise, so my assumption is that her only objection was that it was in SF.

[smartymarty]

1 minute ago, izabella said:

The truth is, most teens graduating high school don't know what they want to do.

Not disputing that. I was just annoyed that she complained about her life but then shot down any attempt to brainstorm solutions, like pursuing things you like to do without it necessarily being "I want this career." Like a What Color is Your Parachute approach.

[izabella]

1 minute ago, smartymarty said:

Not disputing that. I was just annoyed that she complained about her life but then shot down any attempt to brainstorm solutions, like pursuing things you like to do without it necessarily being "I want this career." Like a What Color is Your Parachute approach.

I completely agree.  She was very defeatist, and annoying.  Nothing would do for her unless someone plopped a dream singing career in her lap without her doing any work to get it.

[Ohiopirate02]

6 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Regarding room size and stairs, Kate would see that on their tour of the house -- Toby didn't have to mention it. And Kate didn't mention any of the other issues you raise, so my assumption is that her only objection was that it was in SF.

She did ask if they could afford it which would bring up some of my points.  It is possible that neither one really knows what goes into buying an older home like that.  The list I was rattling off are things that a lot of homeowners would never think about, and then they find themselves in a moneypit.  

[mansonlamps]

54 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Fun is all good and well, but is the house practical for their needs.  I listed out a few areas that were not mentioned by Toby that I personally would consider more important.  It's an older home, I would be more worried about the last time the roof was replaced, how old is the HVAC system, are the bathrooms spacious or are they tiny rooms fitted into a home built before indoor plumbing, talking about plumbing how old is it, also the wiring, Victorians don't have closet space, I'm going to hope the house doesn't have any Victorian Death Stairs, talking about stairs can they safely employ baby gates to keep Jack and Hailey off of them, etc.  The show has already established that Toby isn't handy, do they have the funds to hire someone every time something needs replaced?  The last thing I would be thinking about is a trampoline, and neither should Toby.

I think I'm missing the point,  do we know that Toby didn't ask these questions and that Kate would have?   Was the audience supposed to listen to a discussion on the she of the HVAC system?