S06.E09: The Hill

[chitowngirl]

Kate visits Toby

[gonzosgirrl]

This episode was co-written by Chrissy.

[LoveLeigh]

Is this a repeat?

[ams1001]

11 minutes ago, LoveLeigh said:

Is this a repeat?

No but it's a "trilogy" so we're gonna get all the same pool scenes from each kid's perspective. Last week was Kevin, next week is Randall.

[BuckeyeLou]

I used to think 'old Toby" was a jerk, but this new Suave Toby is like another character...

[BlancheDevoreaux]

Not saying Toby didn't make some serious mistakes in this episode. Turning down the job in LA without even discussing it with Kate was horrible. That said, I struggle to be on Kate's side. She always seems just so mean, angry, and self-centered. 

[chitowngirl]

While I sympathize that Little Jack is learning his way around, it will be easy for someone that age to learn a new layout. He is always going to have to learn how to navigate new spaces. I also know it’s not really about that.

i wish there was more Timothy O. I hope he’s going to be in more episodes.

Edited March 23, 2022 by chitowngirl

[LexieLily]

Kate liked Toby better when he was unemployed and unhappy. That's...something.

See, Kate/Toby legitimately grew apart because of the new job and the distance. But there wasn't ever a reason for Kate and the kids not to move with him to San Fran., so it's kind of coming across like the show has to double down with Toby becoming a workaholic and an asshole out of nowhere (taking a work call after sex, him house-hunting in San. Fran without her, the news that he turned down a job offer in LA without telling her) so Kate Pearson has a reason to divorce him. The show's got to get moving on Kate and Phillip Mean Jerk, after all.

Toby didn't do a lot of things right in this episode but he tried. Kate was determined to be unhappy.
 

Edited March 23, 2022 by LexieLily

[BlancheDevoreaux]

1 minute ago, LexieLily said:

Kate liked Toby better when he was unemployed and unhappy. That's...something.

See, Kate/Toby legitimately grew apart because of the new job and the distance. But there wasn't ever a reason for Kate and the kids not to move with him to San Fran., so it's kind of coming across like the show has to double down with Toby becoming a workaholic and an asshole out of nowhere (taking a work call after sex, him house-hunting in San. Fran without her, the news that he turned down a job offer in LA without telling her) so Kate Pearson has a reason to divorce him. The show's got to get moving on Kate and Phillip Mean Jerk, after all.

Toby didn't do a lot of things right in this episode but he tried. Kate was determined to be unhappy.
 

YES! This has bugged me since that happened. We are supposed to be on Kate's side here, but why?

[ams1001]

Little Kate was cute -
"That girl's swimming upside down!"
"Daddy, it's not gonna happen."

Little Jack squinting to see daddy on the ipad was so cute.

Gregory grumping at her singing with Jack and then smiling after they passed by was sweet. "You're part of the neighborhood so you're part of the song." Nice to see him again.

"Babe."

"Kevin, you're so far ahead you've already ruined one marriage."

I couldn't decide whose side I was on for most of the episode but Toby kind pissed me off at the end, there. "We should have talked about this and we should have talked about that and I hid the LA job offer from you but it was a bad offer anyway and I'm glad we're both happy where we're at...but now you need to do what I want and that's that."

10 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

While I sympathize that Little Jack is learning his way around, it will be easy for someone that age to learn a new layout. He is always going to have to learn how to navigate new spaces. I also know it’s not really about that.

I was thinking the same thing. Sure, it'll take some time but he'll adjust pretty quickly at his age, and you can make up a new song to get to the new park.

[Straycat80]

I will give Kate mad credit for walking up San Fran hill. I’ve done it and thought my heart and lungs were going to explode! 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

If Toby came back home and was miserable, he'd be no good to anyone. Has Kate investigated what resources there are for blind children in San Francisco? She herself could apply for work in any music school; it doesn't have to be for blind students.

Edited March 23, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Spartan Girl]

Good, I’m not the only one failing to sympathize with Kate.

Newsflash, Kate: everyone changes. Toby’s desire to find personal fulfillment with his job and himself is no different from yours. And for you to admit that you liked Toby back when he was overweight and a mess but at your beck and call at your convenience speaks more about you than him.

I really don’t think it’s fair that all of this is going to lead Kate in a happy new marriage with her boss while Toby winds up being a depressed mess in the flash forward.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[CleoCaesar]

Good grief these people hallucinate their loved ones a lot.

With the turned-down job offer in L.A., it seems like the show is throwing Toby under the bus. Both he and Kate had valid reasons for wanting to stay in SF and LA, respectively, but the show is framing Kate as being in the right and I hate that. It’s very hard to sympathize with her and her perpetual sour face and seeming desire to be miserable all the time.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

Little Kate was cute -
"That girl's swimming upside down!"
"Daddy, it's not gonna happen."

Little Jack squinting to see daddy on the ipad was so cute.

Gregory grumping at her singing with Jack and then smiling after they passed by was sweet. "You're part of the neighborhood so you're part of the song." Nice to see him again.

"Babe."

"Kevin, you're so far ahead you've already ruined one marriage."

I couldn't decide whose side I was on for most of the episode but Toby kind pissed me off at the end, there. "We should have talked about this and we should have talked about that and I hid the LA job offer from you but it was a bad offer anyway and I'm glad we're both happy where we're at...but now you need to do what I want and that's that."

He was also constantly talking over Kate.  I noticed this during the Thanksgiving episode.  I know people here rag on Kate for being selfish, but Toby was something else here.  

He also never told Kate the salary of the LA job he turned down.   

[Madding crowd]

Toby has become a different person and it seems like he already made a life without Kate including finding a house. While Kate should consider ( and did) moving, Toby didn’t even talk to her about the house or the offer he got in LA. He also thinks it’s OK for him to be happy but not Kate. I don’t think it’s about him losing weight; it’s about  the old him being a sweet, funny guy that doesn’t talk over her or hide things from her.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Madding crowd

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 minute ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

He also never told Kate the salary of the LA job he turned down.   

It clearly was competitive with the job he has now. He may have originally applied for it before he got the SF job, but now he's more desirable because he has that job, and no major company would expect him to take a pay cut (unless he told them he was desperate to work in LA.)

[tennisgurl]

Toby made a lot of mistakes, especially not telling Kate about the LA job offer, but it was hard to be on Kate’s side. Poor Kate, her husband is too stylish, too confident, in too good of shape, makes too much money, and wants to buy her a nice house in one of the fanciest cities in the country. The horror! Go back to almost dropping dead of a heart attack, Kate finds heart disease to be a real turn on! I don’t like that the show threw in the job offer, it seems like the show too badly wants us to be on Kate’s side when it seems like they’ve both made mistakes and grown apart.  

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

He was also constantly talking over Kate.  I noticed this during the Thanksgiving episode.  I know people here rag on Kate for being selfish, but Toby was something else here.  

I hate that so much.

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

He also never told Kate the salary of the LA job he turned down.   

Yeah, I noticed that, too.

[stonehaven]

I would be a bit more on Toby's side if he sold her on SF with the perspective on "Think of all the art and music opportunities for you here Kate".

Plus, calling her job middling didn't win me over. Most of what Toby wanted was for himself. I'm not a fan of Kate but I saw both sides of their arguments.

That said, the SF scenes made me weep as my late friend was from SF. He dreamed of showing me around that city one day and most of where they went in this episode was right down the street from where he lived. I thought I could watch SF themed things by now without crying...but I guess five years is not enough...

[ItCouldBeWorse]

8 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Little Kate was cute -
"That girl's swimming upside down!"
"Daddy, it's not gonna happen."

*"Why would I, Daddy?" (let go of Jack.)

Edited March 23, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[KaveDweller]

9 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

He was also constantly talking over Kate.  I noticed this during the Thanksgiving episode.  I know people here rag on Kate for being selfish, but Toby was something else here.  

He also never told Kate the salary of the LA job he turned down.   

People on TV never say their salaries, it drives me crazy. But yeah, it was obviously not really that much less than his current job. Which must be crazy high to be able to afford rent on that nice San Francisco apartment on top of their house in LA.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I was fully on Toby's side until Kate found out that he turned down the LA job without even talking to her. It seems to me that they've both carved out lives for themselves that they really like and neither is willing to sacrifice their own happiness to stay together as a family. That's really the crux of it. They should want to be together but it's just not a priority for either of them. Toby just expecting Kate to do it is messed up; I mean plenty of people have jobs where they just "take up space" and manage to still have good lives, working to live rather than living to work. On the other hand, I don't see why Kate can't find another job that's just as fulfilling to her in San Francisco. Really, the only downside is being away from her extended family. I think Jack would adjust. Not saying it wouldn't be difficult at first.

The crazy thing is is if Toby stays in San Francisco and Kate in LA, Toby's still going to have to be traveling back and forth all the time if he wants to see his kids. So it won't be so different for him than it is now.

The Fight Club metaphor with Old Toby as Tyler Durden was really out there. I honestly don't see how different Toby is now. I just think that their relationship was in a good place back then and it's in a bad place now leading them to both think the other has changed so much when in reality it's their lack of good relationship skills causing all the fights once there are real obstacles they have to deal with.

Jack and Rebecca are massive helicopter parents (something that really didn't exist in the 80's BTW) so it's no wonder Kate was fighting going in the water so hard. If they just let her sit by the side of the pool and watch everyone else having fun, I bet she would have gotten in of her own accord. Also, if she doesn't want to stick her face in the water, I don't think it's such a big deal. She eventually would on her own time.

Those hills in San Francisco are no joke.

[nilyank]

37 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

See, Kate/Toby legitimately grew apart because of the new job and the distance. But there wasn't ever a reason for Kate and the kids not to move with him to San Fran., so it's kind of coming across like the show has to double down with Toby becoming a workaholic and an asshole out of nowhere (taking a work call after sex, him house-hunting in San. Fran without her, the news that he turned down a job offer in LA without telling her) so Kate Pearson has a reason to divorce him. The show's got to get moving on Kate and Phillip Mean Jerk, after all.

If Jack would have  pulled the whole bit of finding a house  and springing it as a surprise to Rebecca, Kate would have said it was the most romantic, wonderful thing in the world. Jack did Little Kate no favors by not treating her the way he did Kevin at the pool with her whole she never wants to let him go bit.

While Toby is extremely happy with his new job and feeling completing valued in a way that he has never had before, he is also imagining building a home with Kate and the kids in San Francisco. Kate didn't want to even try to picture herself in that house because why would she want to leave LA where she has everything that she ever wanted (except Toby living there). She doesn't want to leave her happy bubble. Why would she want to.

Edited March 23, 2022 by nilyank

[SunnyBeBe]

I can’t get behind Kate. Teen Kate is probably my least favorite. I try to have compassion, but man she’s such a awfulizer.  Everything is so awful and a personal affront to her.  She likes to disagree with your idea, just because it’s your idea.  If Toby misses that, then what’s wrong with him?  Why keep rubbing in Kevin’s failed marriage?  A teen would have known that. She would have had meltdown with such an insult.  Just an unpleasant character, imo.  It seems like her kids like her pretty well.  So, perhaps all is not lost.  

[BoogieBurns]

Their conflict was one as old as time. The dad thinks he supports his family by fattening the bank account. The mom thinks its better to support the kids by just being there and making memories with them. It's not a dealbreaker, it's more like the entire plan of the patriarchy.

Of course I'm on Kate's side. I've seen crappy husbands justify their absenteeism on the need to make more money. There needs to be a balance because no amount is ever "enough" money. Nor can you have the healthy/safe bonding with your family without financial safety (ex: being homeless is rarely a good experience for families).

Proud of her for getting up that hill and finally finishing something she started.

[Tango64]

Oh wow,I’m New Toby 100%. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

14 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

Plus, calling her job middling didn't win me over. Most of what Toby wanted was for himself. I'm not a fan of Kate but I saw both sides of their arguments

I thought he said they wouldn't be able to pay for what Jack would need on her part-time salary and a middle-management job in LA, referring to the job he turned down.

[Ohiopirate02]

I saw this episode as Kate finally deciding what it is that she wants out of her life.  She has been adrift since Jack died.  She stayed in Pittsburgh working a crappy job for a decade after.  Then she moves to LA to be Kevin's assistant, staying fully in his orbit.  Her marriage to Toby begins to break her out of the rut she has been in for close to 20 years.  She gets married, finishes school, becomes a mother, and finally gets a job doing what she loves.  She is moving forward towards her goal, a goal that is hers and hers alone.   She doesn't need Toby anymore.  Which is why we see her take those steps up the hill and call Philip.  Kate knows that she will never be happy with the new Toby in SF.  The life he is envisioning is not the life she wants.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

9 minutes ago, nilyank said:

If Jack would have  pulled the whole bit of finding a house  and springing it as a surprise to Rebecca, Kate would have said it was the most romantic, wonderful thing in the world. 

Didn't Jack do exactly that with their childhood home?

[chitowngirl]

Kate’s job might be part time and “middling”, but they get a discount on tuition at Jack’s school.

[nilyank]

1 minute ago, chitowngirl said:

Kate’s job might be part time and “middling”, but they get a discount on tuition at Jack’s school.

Toby was talking about the LA job.

[Blackie]

20 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Those hills in San Francisco are no joke.

 

When I was there all I thought was that first you had to walk up that hill to get to your house and then you had to walk up and down all the stairs in your house !  St John's Newfoundland has some big hills too and 3/4 the year they do it in snow!!

Its one thing to wear a suit for a bigger belly but I am intrigued how they make the face look larger with more chins.

At least we found out where Randall was in the pool.

 

ETA: did we find out how the teens got out of the pool, did I miss that part? 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Blackie

[nilyank]

3 minutes ago, Blackie said:

ETA: did we find out how the teens got out of the pool, did I miss that part? 

Randall and Kevin climbed over the gate and were encouraging Kate that she could do it as well, being super supportive. Kate starts to climb but gives up quickly and refuses to do it.

[BoogieBurns]

9 minutes ago, Blackie said:

ETA: did we find out how the teens got out of the pool, did I miss that part? 

Looks like that will be fully resolved in the next episode. They showed flashing lights and Randall with his hands raised at the gate they hopped.

[Katie111]

I cannot stand Kate.  The way she left that party was so rude.  These are his coworkers. Hold yourself together for 5 minutes to say goodbye to your host, your husband’s boss.  The one that pays his salary that allows you to live in a beautiful house in LA and work your dream job that pays almost nothing.  
 

Toby is the one killing himself going back and forth on a plane 4 times a week.  And all he gets when he gets to LA is shit on by his wife for not being there enough and not doing anything right.  And he gets to live with his wife and brother in law.    I think she loves having Kevin there and doesn’t need Toby there because she has Kevin as a stand in. 
 

He found a house that he thought she would like.  If she didn’t like it, all she had to say was that they should keep looking.  He hadn’t even put an offer on it.  Absolutely nothing makes her happy.  Least of all Toby.  
 

One final note, but why do they never address Kates weight in the present time?  No one ever makes a comment about her weight.  No one at the party even batted an eyelash when Toby introduced her.  She is morbidly obese and I just don’t think that’s realistic at all that no one seems to notice it. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Katie111

[tennisgurl]

How long have Toby and Kate actually been together within the shows timeline? A few years? I know that people split up and it’s a part of life but it’s depressing  to me, regardless of who’s “wrong” here, that not only did they not last very long, but that Kate apparently moves on pretty fast. It’s probably realistic, but it’s still sad that a relationship that has been such a big part of the show (for better or for worse) is ending on such a sour note after a pretty short run.

[Madding crowd]

5 minutes ago, Katie111 said:

I cannot stand Kate.  The way she left that party was so rude.  These are his coworkers. Hold yourself together for 5 minutes to say goodbye to your host, your husband’s boss.  The one that pays his salary that allows you to live in a beautiful house in LA and work your dream job that pays almost nothing.  
 

Toby is the one killing himself going back and forth on a plane 4 times a week.  And all he gets when he gets to LA is shit on by his wife for not being there enough and not doing anything right.  And he gets to live with his wife and brother in law.    I think she loves having Kevin there and doesn’t need Toby there because she has Kevin as a stand in. 
 

He found a house that he thought she would like.  If she didn’t like it, all she had to say was that they should keep looking.  He hadn’t even put an offer on it.  Absolutely nothing makes her happy.  Least of all Toby.  
 

One final note, but why do they never address Kates weight in the present time?  No one ever makes a comment about her weight.  No one at the party even batted an eyelash when Toby introduced her.  She is morbidly obese and I just don’t think that’s realistic at all that no one seems to notice it. 

I’ve never in my life gone to a party and talked about someone’s appearance out loud. Maybe they are used to seeing different types of people and were more interested in getting to know Kate rather than discussing her weight. Why would her weight be the business of anyone at the party anyway? 

[Ohiopirate02]

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

How long have Toby and Kate actually been together within the shows timeline? A few years? I know that people split up and it’s a part of life but it’s depressing  to me, regardless of who’s “wrong” here, that not only did they not last very long, but that Kate apparently moves on pretty fast. It’s probably realistic, but it’s still sad that a relationship that has been such a big part of the show (for better or for worse) is ending on such a sour note after a pretty short run.

They have only been together for 5 years.  They met in 2016, got married in 2018, and this episode is still set in 2021.  

[ams1001]

Toby criticized Kate for facetiming the kids...but when she was doing that at the pier he was on a work call. So my question is, who was on the phone first? 

[buttersister]

I enjoy watching the Pearsons, faults and all. I was bored tonight. Since we know Kate and Toby break up, ask me if I cared how--because chances were 100%: Throw Toby under the bus. Cause Kate is the Pearson. Toby's far from perfect, but he took steps to ensure that he'd be around for his kids and could provide for them. Kate might take a note.

Toby didn't say what his LA offer paid, but I know what real estate prices are in SF and, as Toby said, what giving Jack every advantage would cost, so while his ego enjoys being a hero in this job, his salary is no joke. 

[maggiemae]

I'm thinking Kate's weight is surprising to many.

s

[Ohiopirate02]

Just now, ams1001 said:

Toby criticized Kate for facetiming the kids...but when she was doing that at the pier he was on a work call. So my question is, who was on the phone first? 

I'm pissed on Kate's behalf for that comment from Toby.

[After7Only]

12 minutes ago, Katie111 said:

 

One final note, but why do they never address Kates weight in the present time?  No one ever makes a comment about her weight.  No one at the party even batted an eyelash when Toby introduced her.  She is morbidly obese and I just don’t think that’s realistic at all that no one seems to notice it. 

I thought they did when Toby called a Lyft rather than have Kate walk the hill.   And given Toby’s shown his coworkers pics of the kids, he’s likely also shown them pics of his wife.   They weren’t surprised by her size.    

[Good Queen Jane]

Did they ever say who was taking care of Baby Jack and Hailey while Kate was in SF? They don’t trust Rebecca, Madison has her own two, and I can’t see Kevin doing it since this predates last week’s episode of turning into Superdad. 

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Did they ever say who was taking care of Baby Jack and Hailey while Kate was in SF? They don’t trust Rebecca, Madison has her own two, and I can’t see Kevin doing it since this predates last week’s episode of turning into Superdad. 

I don't think so. They don't want to leave them alone with Rebecca, but maybe they would leave them with her and Miguel together.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

Not saying Toby didn't make some serious mistakes in this episode. Turning down the job in LA without even discussing it with Kate was horrible. That said, I struggle to be on Kate's side. She always seems just so mean, angry, and self-centered. 

I think Toby lost me at the end when he was basically telling Kate they would what he wanted, and kind of presented it to her as though she had no real choice.  Everything he was saying might be correct, but he's done a terrible job of presenting any of this to Kate.

 

14 minutes ago, Katie111 said:

One final note, but why do they never address Kates weight in the present time?  No one ever makes a comment about her weight.  No one at the party even batted an eyelash when Toby introduced her.  She is morbidly obese and I just don’t think that’s realistic at all that no one seems to notice it. 

I'm not sure I follow this.  What would you expect these people to do or say when they see Kate? 

[KaveDweller]

25 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I’ve never in my life gone to a party and talked about someone’s appearance out loud. Maybe they are used to seeing different types of people and were more interested in getting to know Kate rather than discussing her weight. Why would her weight be the business of anyone at the party anyway? 

I agree. I had a colleague who was about as overweight as Kate is and I never heard anyone in the office comment about it to him or behind his back. And I know at least some of my colleagues had no problem saying negative things about other people in the office.

You'd have to be pretty crappy to meet someone and comment on their weight or make comments about them when they are in the same room. I'm sure people noticed she is obese, but what is there to say?

Edited March 23, 2022 by KaveDweller

[TV Diva Queen]

God I hate Kate. Always have and tonight solidified it. She’s one of those people that are only happy when they’re miserable. The teen boys should have left her on the locked pool and be done with her. 

[zoey1996]

Toby turned down the LA job without talking it over with Kate, and that wasn’t good, but Kate just told cruel boss that she wants to be considered for the open position without mentioning it to Toby, and that’s not good either. Looks like she’s made up her mind to stay in LA. Which we sort of knew, but more definitely now. 
If she’s flying back Sunday, why not do the planned day Saturday, and have a more relaxed Sunday until it’s time to go to the airport?

I’ve always liked Kate, but it’s been more difficult as the marriage has unraveled. I feel badly for both of them.