S06.E01: Echoes

[Athena]

Quote

Jamie's authority is tested when an old rival from Ardsmuir shows up to settle on the Ridge; Claire finds a new way to cope with the trauma of her assault by Lionel Brown.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

[LoveLeigh]

Can we discuss the episode? It is up On Demand.

Edited March 6, 2022 by LoveLeigh

[jqdeco]

Don’t want to give  anything away to those who have not seen the episode yet. I will say I was happy to see a couple of characters from a previous season, even if only in flash backs. Not happy with the end when we see how Claire is coping with what happened last season.

[nara]

So the theme of this season will be addiction. Not sure how I feel about that. It makes sense, but this season already feels depressing and joyless. I feel like it’s worse that they didn’t give Fergus anything to do or say over the past couple of seasons, and now he’s an alcoholic who neglects his family…I feel less bad about Claire because she has been so strong for so long, it seems fair that she would seek numbness for a while. That last scene reminded me of The Cider House Rules, and not in a good way…but I feel confident that Claire will rebound.

The Christies are clearly trouble and Malva reminds me a little of Laoghaire—not physically, but more in her sly look. 

The Browns — I think the British will regret giving them any power…

I wish they had mentioned the freemason thing before because it feels retconned into Jamie’s story. It is important for the US history aspect, but I wish the groundwork had been laid—or did I miss it.

Show is well done, but constant threat and suffering is wearing on me.  I really like Jamie, but I wonder if they will stay in the past after he dies… this is speculation since everyone eventually must die.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Athena
edited per request from OP

[Beeyago]

I liked it more than I thought I would. I thought the continuity from previous seasons was great. And I’m generally critical of that. And happy that the chemistry is still there. Sam and Cait are such good actors.  The Fergus development was odd though, but I guess they want to add some drama there. I too think the ending was really out of character for Claire, not all that crazy about where they might be going with that.  Her voiceover about ghosts... they’re obviously setting up something with that. Interesting!! Overall I liked it!  Going to rewatch it tonight. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Beeyago

[Quickbeam]

I didn’t like the Fergus plot line at all. However was glad the show was back and anytime I can get more Mohawk Ian, I am happy. 

[LoveLeigh]

I was very bored. It is so slow moving.. a gorgeous series with beautiful sets but it drags so much. And was that another flogging scene? I fast forwarded through it because it makes me sick. 

[DoctorAtomic]

3 hours ago, LoveLeigh said:

It is so slow moving.. a gorgeous series with beautiful sets but it drags so much.

I do like the characters, but after season 2, there's never been much in the way of plots for me. I'm really only invested in how the fire is going to pan out and the scenery. I also like when Claire does 'future stuff', like when the made the syringe or now with the ether. Building the settlement is kind of interesting too. 

I was confused that I missed an episode somewhere because the show opened in the prison.

They certainly outdo themselves on the theme though. Still don't know how they built that house. 

Roger still working on that school? We were saying this for years!

I don't think founding a church is necessarily a bad idea, but I was saying the same thing as Claire; there's a lot more people and that means way more food and shelter. I was glad Jamie started putting them to work. 

Mr. Christie is kind of a little bitch. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[andidante]

What the heck show? Why are you ruining Fergus???

[DoctorAtomic]

5 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

I didn’t like the Fergus plot line at all.

Same. It smacks of 'giving the character something to do'. I'm not seeing where that came from.

 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

5 hours ago, LoveLeigh said:

I was very bored. It is so slow moving.. a gorgeous series with beautiful sets but it drags so much. And was that another flogging scene? I fast forwarded through it because it makes me sick. 

The one at the beginning or the one at the end?

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Same. It smacks of 'giving the character something to do'. I'm not seeing where that came from.

 

I too hated to see that, as Fergus was an excellent husband and father- BUT I could see it. 
 

Fergus had a traumatic childhood, sold and sexually exploited as a child, yes he had a loving home with the Frasers, but he’s disabled in a world that tells him he’s “less of a man” because he only has one hand. He’s now living in an environment where he’s got as many skills as Roger- I could see the fire at the still, could lead him to abuse alcohol. I could also see how having kids the age he was when he was sold may bring back awful memories. 
 

Many decent people have succumbed to alcohol addiction and are shitty partners when they are drinking.  

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't know. It kind of wipes out any of Jamie's influence on him. I mean, it's been two decades. 

[BitterApple]

I'm happy the show is back, and for the most part I liked the episode.

My one slight criticism is the pacing felt a little wonky. I understand they had to spend time with the Ardsmuir flashback to build the history between Tom and Jamie, but I was getting anxious to get things going and move on to Fraser's Ridge. 

I'm kind of bummed to see the direction they're going with Fergus. He's one of my favorite characters and I don't want him turning into an abusive drunk.

The Christies are trouble. I'm not a book reader, so I have no idea where it's going, but the dad is bitter and jealous, the son is a thief and the daughter seems a little too focused on Claire. Throw in their pack of religious zealots, and yikes. I'm assuming that line about people not accepting Brianna's inventions will tie into all of this somehow. 

Claire self-medicating to cope with trauma, oh boy. In a way, I'm glad she's struggling because to me that's a more realistic reaction than bouncing back with no emotional scars, but dammit, I need my Claire firing on all cylinders. 

If I had to grade the premier, I'd give it a B+. As others have mentioned, the actors maintaining their chemistry despite the long layoff is a feat in and of itself.

[sas616]

46 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't know. It kind of wipes out any of Jamie's influence on him. I mean, it's been two decades. 

During one of the interviews I saw where they discussed Fergus' "dark" storyline, it was mentioned that he's depressed because he was not able to protect Marsali when the Brown's attached the Ridge at the end of Season 5.   (Guess he forgot he wasn't at the Ridge at the time).   Bottom line is, he believes he cannot be a good husband/father if he cannot protect his family.

[ferjy]

I loved the episode. I like how they focussed on the day to day living in those times and running the Ridge. And always happy to see Claire healing. Although I do miss her adapting with herbs rather than her more modern methods. It was great to see (most of) everyone back (Sophie Skelton, still slurring her words, sigh). Lauren Lyle was great, as always. Marsali pregnant again. Have we ever seen her not pregnant? 😄 My only complaint, as others have mentioned is Fergus’ storyline. Why oh why? Let Marsali and Fergus be happy already, for gosh dern sake! Oh well, at least it means we’ll see more of César Domboy. And I have to say it again, I just love John Bell. He always lights up the screen. 

I’m happy to see Mark Lewis Jones (Tom Christie), even if he is a baddie in this. A fine, fine actor. And Alexander Vlahos as his son is a treat. He was fantastic as the king’s brother Philippe in Versailles. They’ve put together a really good cast this season. 

 

[Glade]

We waited almost two years for this miserable, ugly slog of an episode...as personified by the fugly Tom Christie and the only facial expression he seems able to make.  Throw that abusive fundamentalist off the land and let his victims remain, Jaimie!  Where was Murtaugh during that Ardsmuir flashback?  Surely that would have been a nice moment to revisit the character, since he was present at the prison.

Maybe we could have seen Fergus getting retraumatized and gradually sliding into alcoholism last season instead of his being a glorified extra.  And Claire is addicted to ether...I don't imagine that will go well.  I really hope the following episodes in this short, short season remind me of why I loved this show so much.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Glade

[Scarlett45]

9 hours ago, sas616 said:

During one of the interviews I saw where they discussed Fergus' "dark" storyline, it was mentioned that he's depressed because he was not able to protect Marsali when the Brown's attached the Ridge at the end of Season 5.   (Guess he forgot he wasn't at the Ridge at the time).   Bottom line is, he believes he cannot be a good husband/father if he cannot protect his family.

I could see this. Fergus went through SO MUCH as a kid. The attack on his pregnant wife and child (the little boy was so smart to stay hidden under the bed), likely brought back a lot of feelings. I think it would’ve been better to SEE his descent, but with the time jumps (Marsali was pregnant last season and had the baby, this is ANOTHER pregnancy no?) we didn’t see his progression into alcohol abuse. 

6 hours ago, ferjy said:

I’m happy to see Mark Lewis Jones (Tom Christie), even if he is a baddie in this. A fine, fine actor. And Alexander Vlahos as his son is a treat. He was fantastic as the king’s brother Philippe in Versailles. They’ve put together a really good cast this season

That’s where I recognized him from!

[Lola82]

7 hours ago, ferjy said:

Lauren Lyle was great, as always. Marsali pregnant again. Have we ever seen her not pregnant? 

 

I'm pretty sure this is still the pregnancy from last season. 

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, Lola82 said:

I'm pretty sure this is still the pregnancy from last season. 

Yes, it is. I should have clarified, I meant we’re seeing her pregnant again. It’s not been often we see her normal (i.e. not pregnant) since she got married. 

 

[Emmeline]

9 hours ago, ferjy said:

And Alexander Vlahos as his son is a treat. He was fantastic as the king’s brother Philippe in Versailles. They’ve put together a really good cast this season. 

 

I’m happy to see Alexander Vlahos on this show.  It took me a second to remember where I recognize him from.  

[goldilocks]

23 minutes ago, Emmeline said:

I’m happy to see Alexander Vlahos on this show.  It took me a second to remember where I recognize him from.  

Me too. I prefer the Versailles hairdo (which he looked fabulous in... swoon) but it wouldn’t work well here. 😁 I thought he was a great actor in Versailles too. I’m interested to see how he does here. 

 

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, Lola82 said:

I'm pretty sure this is still the pregnancy from last season. 

Oh it is? Thanks for clarifying. I thought we had a year plus time jump. 

[jmnf19]

10 hours ago, ferjy said:

I’m happy to see Mark Lewis Jones (Tom Christie), even if he is a baddie in this. A fine, fine actor. And Alexander Vlahos as his son is a treat. He was fantastic as the king’s brother Philippe in Versailles. They’ve put together a really good cast this season. 

I like Mark Lewis Jones too. I’ve seen him in quite a few British dramas. He’s always a good watch and is quite alluring. And yes, nice to see Alexander Vlahos in something else. I have only seen him in Versailles and agree he was superb in the role. I liked him better than Louis. 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by jmnf19

[jmnf19]

I was engaged by the episode and enjoyed it. Agree about Fergus, but we’ll see where it goes. Also glad Young Ian (are we still calling him that? 😆) is still around. 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by jmnf19

[ch1]

Was I the only one who thought SH looked like Frankenstein in the Ardsmuir scenes with that wig?  It was actually distracting to me.  

 

[DoctorAtomic]

14 hours ago, BitterApple said:

The Christies are trouble. I'm not a book reader, so I have no idea where it's going, but the dad is bitter and jealous, the son is a thief and the daughter seems a little too focused on Claire.

Tom also said to Allan that 'his mother was burning in hell'. That's not good. Tom and the 'safety committee guy' look the same to me. 

10 hours ago, Glade said:

Maybe we could have seen Fergus getting retraumatized and gradually sliding into alcoholism last season instead of his being a glorified extra.

That's kind of what I meant by 'giving the character something to do'. The show shouldn't have to tell me outside the show the motivation for Fergus. Plan better. They knew they had a season 6. Or use this season to do that, than jump into it. 

I think it's also because Fergus and Young Ian are favorites around here too and we don't what to see either of them having a rough go of it. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[BitterApple]

35 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Oh it is? Thanks for clarifying. I thought we had a year plus time jump. 

I thought we did too. It seemed like the purpose of the establishing shots was to show how much Fraser's Ridge had grown. I'm surprised we're still in the same time frame from where we left off.

One thing I'd wished they'd done was given some exposition as to why Tom Christie was at Ardsmuir? He's clearly not a Jacobite, so what was his crime? 

12 minutes ago, ch1 said:

Was I the only one who thought SH looked like Frankenstein in the Ardsmuir scenes with that wig?  It was actually distracting to me.  

 

His head looked really weirdly proportioned, I agree. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, Emmeline said:

I’m happy to see Alexander Vlahos on this show.  It took me a second to remember where I recognize him from.  

He was also Mordred on Merlin and Dorian Gray in the Big Finish audio series The Confessions of Dorian Gray (which crossed over with Doctor Who and Dark Shadows).

17 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

One thing I'd wished they'd done was given some exposition as to why Tom Christie was at Ardsmuir? He's clearly not a Jacobite, so what was his crime?

He was a Jacobite. He told Claire he was in Ardsmuir because he had supported Scotland despite Charlie being Catholic. He obviously repented of his ways in prison.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[FnkyChkn34]

47 minutes ago, ch1 said:

Was I the only one who thought SH looked like Frankenstein in the Ardsmuir scenes with that wig?  It was actually distracting to me.  

 

I actually think his Fraser's Ridge wig is much worse! LOL - this show is massively popular with what I'm sure is a huge budget, and they can't get any hair right. 

As for the episode as a whole? If they're all like this, I'm not at all upset that this season will be so short. The plots are all lather, rinse, repeat at this point. The addition of addiction doesn't make it more interesting. 

 

[Cdh20]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Oh it is? Thanks for clarifying. I thought we had a year plus time jump. 

I think the time jump was just months from late fall to winter in the next year.

[kicotan]

On 3/6/2022 at 7:08 AM, nara said:

I wish they had mentioned the freemason thing before because it feels retconned into Jamie’s story. It is important for the US history aspect, but I wish the groundwork had been laid—or did I miss it.

I think because Freemasonry, as an institution, did not participate in the Revolutionary War and yet, stories passed down through generations provide a backdrop for the individual men who were Freemasons and very familiar with the revolutionary concepts of civil, religious and intellectual liberty standing on separate foundations.

When two people or groups are in a fight, much less a war, often the parties are less than cordial to each other. Freemasonry ensured that despite fighting, men on either side would be respected. During the War for Independence, this became important in saving lives. Brant led a group of Mohawks Indians during the war in support of the British. This group captured Colonel John McKinstry, a patriot and a mason. When McKinstry displayed the masonic recognition sign, it is reported that Brant freed him and sent him back to his army.  Stories like this are unsubstantiated, but since Outlander is a work of fiction, working tidbits like this in make for a more interesting and realistic approach to the historical elements of the show.  Like when they show the orphans that were transported by the English ~ plenty of folks are under the misguided assumption that all the white folks that got to the North American continent came by choice, which isn’t true.  George Washington and Paul Revere weren’t the only Freemasons to contribute to the Revolutionary War, either.

Edited March 7, 2022 by kicotan
Grammar

[tennisgurl]

I hate seeing Fergus like this, and it looks like this season is going to be a depressing one even by this shows standards with how much everyone is struggling, but I am still thrilled to have the show back. I liked the episode for the most part, even if the pacing felt a bit off with the long flashback to explain the history between Jamie and Christie. I missed Jamie and Claire so much, they really do have some of the best chemistry on television. Plus, I always enjoy the shows breaks between the drama, I just like seeing the day to day managing of a home and community in this time period, mixed with having some 20th century folk around to change things a bit. 

The Christie's are definitely going to be trouble. The dad is jealous and angry, the son is a thief, the daughter is way too interested in starring intently at Claire while talking about hellfire, plus with a big sprinkle of religious fanaticism and the threat of bringing old world feuds into the new world, things are about to get rough. 

I liked hearing the original opening song at the start, its still my favorite variation even if I have really enjoyed many of the other variations. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by tennisgurl

[DoctorAtomic]

Did they say what Christie's religion is? I know they said 'protestant', but I mean like shakers, 7th day, whatever you call the people with the snakes. He's kind of a Great Awakening type. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

48 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Did they say what Christie's religion is? I know they said 'protestant', but I mean like shakers, 7th day, whatever you call the people with the snakes. He's kind of a Great Awakening type. 

I'd assume Presbyterian, like Roger (and my family). That's the Church of Scotland.

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Plus, I always enjoy the shows breaks between the drama, I just like seeing the day to day managing of a home and community in this time period, mixed with having some 20th century folk around to change things a bit. 

Seconded!

Edited March 8, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Did they say what Christie's religion is? I know they said 'protestant', but I mean like shakers, 7th day, whatever you call the people with the snakes. He's kind of a Great Awakening type. 

I would think Calvinist or Presbyterian. 

[kicotan]

14 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Did they say what Christie's religion is? I know they said 'protestant', but I mean like shakers, 7th day, whatever you call the people with the snakes. He's kind of a Great Awakening type. 

Most likely Anglican-The Church of England.  While many Scottish Anglicans disagreed with the politics of the crown and desired civil change in their country, the King was still the “pope”, if you will, of the Anglican Church-a Protestant institution.  Snake handling didn’t start until the early 1900’s in Appalachia.  I read him more like a Baptist circuit preacher, without the sweat dripping off of his chin and the thumping of the Bible with his fist. 😄

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, kicotan said:

 I read him more like a Baptist circuit preacher, without the sweat dripping off of his chin and the thumping of the Bible with his fist.

Well, it's only episode 1, and Jamie apologized for missing the sermon when him and Claire went to visit the settlement with supplies. 
When Jamie said, 'this is my land and my word is law', Christie retorted some nonsense about the lord, that wasn't nearly even in the same galaxy as the point Jamie was making. Add in him bloviating about his deceased wife burning in hell. It's clearly going to be a point of contention, and we should see why.

[ali59]

Quote

Not happy with the end when we see how Claire is coping with what happened last season.

It sort of shocked me and I thought: Isn't that the way Michael Caine's character dies in "Cider House Rules."?

[gingerella]

Och and oy, where to begin with this? After spending the past year getting caught up for the first time with this show, and falling in love with S01 & 02, then being grossly disappointed somewhere towards the end of S03 (Pirates of the Caribbean edition) through S05 with sporadic episodes that felt like the good old original seasons, this felt like standing in quicksand, or hot tar. I just don't understand how the first 2.5 seasons could be so good and the second half be so...meh. I feel for you guys who've been waiting two years for...this. In no particular order:

* Great to see daily life on the Ridge, I could watch more of that and less drama...

* Jamie looks 'weird' to me in the 'you're an angel' scene, ditto last season's 50 bday tent scene, I'm not sure why, but he doesn't look like him and it always throws me off.

* That long background Ardsmuir scene was...long...but weirdly I didn't love it the way I always love a Scotland call back scene. What I did like was Jamie's hair in that scene, way better wig than all the other past Ardsmuir scenes, there must've been a temporary barber at the prison during this flashback.

* Tom Christie is a priggish asshole and this show is falling into the trope of always feeling it has to have an evil character (newsflash: it doesn't!). First BJR, then Bonnet, now Christie and that bloated arse and his Backwoods Posse. Just, no. Jamie, always tapping into his misguided Scottish honor, cannot turn away Christie? Fuck that, tell him to keep on moving and settle elsewhere. Christie must have known it was James Fraser of Fraser's Ridge so why did he even bother? Surely he'd know nobody from Ardsmuir that would have settled with Jamie would want Christie there. And why are we only just now learning about this Great Conflict at Ardsmuir? It seems like something we should have seen during that season and I don't think we ever saw this guy back then, right?

* Allan is a creeper, as is Malva, who I want to call Mulva for Seinfeldian reasons. She creeps up on Claire and starts in with jibber jabber about fire and brimstone...methinks she's going to peg Claire as a witch and cause problems for her. Dont know what to make of her brother but don't really care either, I just dont want these people to take over the story and I have a bad feeling we're stuck with them for some time. I hope I'm wrong.

* So Claire is a substance abuser now and Fergus is a drunkard? Seriously Show? That's the best you can do? First of all, Claire would not turn to anything like that to blot out her trauma, it's just so out of character for her IMO. Think of all the trauma and terror she endured with BJR, and then seeing what he did to Jamie physically, then hearing what he'd done to Jamie, she didn't turn to self medication then, but now she is? It doesn't feel authentic to the character, at least not to me. And Fergus becoming a drunk also falls short to me. I can see him feeling inadequate about his hand when so much on the Ridge requires two hands, and I can see him angry that he wasn't there to protect Marsali, but to suddenly become a drunkard seems out of character to me on this as well. He used to sell illegal alcohol in Edinburgh but he wasn't a drunk then. Nah, not buying it, nor am I buying he's physically abusive to Marsali, that also rings false to me. You'd think he'd have seen women being treated roughly at the brothel in France and would know better, so also not buying that.

* Ian, huzzuh! Where is Rolo though? I love that Ian's still brooding but when will we learn why? It's a huge story hole that needs filling. My best guess is he fell in love with a native lass and things were fabulous for a while, until she decided to take another to her bed, as we've been told many times is the custom, and Ian went all Scotsman on this and didn't handle it well, thus ruining the relationship. That's my guess.

* Lizzy crushing on one of the twins - I can't remember which one - was sort of cute, she deserves someone who will be kind to her.

* What else...Oh, Jamie is wanted to spy on the Mohawk now? Is there nobody else in NC that can do this dirty business? It's always down to JAMMF, please...

That's all I got. I don't like the Christies, they're a sour patch bunch, and I don't need constant angst in this show. Show me frontier life. I'd rather NOT have the Christie Family nonsense and instead have us shown the decline of Fergus into drinking and why. That? Would have been infinitely more interesting and would have given one of the best characters in this group a decent storyline for a change.

 

[Athena]

A post was been reported for spoilers; however, there was no book talk or spoilers. Speculation is allowed in this thread.

[Quickbeam]

21 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Did they say what Christie's religion is? I know they said 'protestant', but I mean like shakers, 7th day, whatever you call the people with the snakes. He's kind of a Great Awakening type. 

7th Day Adventist movement did not occur until the 1800s in the “great awakening”. Same time as Christian Science. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

21 hours ago, gingerella said:

* Ian, huzzuh! Where is Rolo though? I love that Ian's still brooding but when will we learn why? It's a huge story hole that needs filling. My best guess is he fell in love with a native lass and things were fabulous for a while, until she decided to take another to her bed, as we've been told many times is the custom, and Ian went all Scotsman on this and didn't handle it well, thus ruining the relationship. That's my guess.

* Lizzy crushing on one of the twins - I can't remember which one - was sort of cute, she deserves someone who will be kind to her.

Ian also said something sad about children when around Fergus and Marsali's kid a while back.

With the "two are better than one" comment, Fergus seemed to be implying that Lizzy was crushing on both twins.

[WatchrTina]

Here's a link to the "Inside the Episode" commentary for this ep.

 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

Young Ian even calls himself Young Ian.

 

[taanja]

On 3/7/2022 at 12:52 AM, ferjy said:

? 😄 My only complaint, as others have mentioned is Fergus’ storyline. Why oh why? Let Marsali and Fergus be happy already, for gosh dern sake! Oh well, at least it means we’ll see more of César Domboy. And I have to say it again, I just love John Bell. He always lights up the screen. 

 

Because it would be super boring. They are finally giving Fergus and Marsali something to do other than look adoringly at Jamie and Claire. I am personally amazed that Fergus hasn't gone off the deep end before this.

I remember when Fergus and Marsali were just getting married and Marsali made some comment that Fergus told her her knew how not to get her pregnant - ha! right! what is she? knocked up with like her 5th kid by now! 

Oh and it kills me whenever Claire advises the women to just get the men to help around the house/with the children! The looks the 18th century characters give her are awesome! Like - say what bitch? The menfolk helping???? 

I laughed out loud when we saw Claire self medicating! Love it! There is NO WAY she walked away from what happened to her last season without any major mental/emotional damage. Just no way. Oblivion with ether! You go Claire! 

I still wonder every single time I watch this show -- why the hell those characters from the future chose to remain in the past???? 

[DoctorAtomic]

Part of my criticism of Fergus' plot is that you can mine drama from a reasonably adjusted married couple without always resorting to drama that threatens the relationship though. Claire and Jamie are a well adjusted couple given the context, and there's plenty of (reasonably, for me) drama of cultivating a prosperous settlement as well as outside issues like the safety committee or dealing with the native Americans. I'm most invested in how the fire is going to turn out; and the revolutionary war from the southern point of view so I'm not as invested in them. Fergus could have been readily integrated into some of that, on top of getting the still reconstructed. For example, they could have worked it that Fergus and Young Ian approach Jamie about taking the 'agent' job, and asked to be part of that. There is relationship drama in that way in Fergus doing a lot of things that he's checked out of the marriage, and that could still stem from Fergus feeling 'less of a man' or not 'useful'. So those themes can still be integrated into the show in a more organic way. 

The other part of the criticism is that Fergus was essentially a glorified extra last season and seemingly all of a sudden he's an abusive drunk. That can be contrasted with Claire doping up with the ether. It's not really interesting to me, but the development is legitimately earned. 

[ferjy]

11 hours ago, taanja said:

Because it would be super boring. They are finally giving Fergus and Marsali something to do other than look adoringly at Jamie and Claire.

I guess you missed where I said that at least we’d get to see more of Fergus. Still, it didn’t have to be that plot line. 

 

[ferjy]

On 3/8/2022 at 1:48 PM, gingerella said:

nor am I buying he's physically abusive to Marsali, that also rings false to me. You'd think he'd have seen women being treated roughly at the brothel in France and would know better, so also not buying that.

Yes, good point about the treatment of women he grew up with. Besides, come  on, we all know Marsali. She’d bean Fergus in the head if he tried anything like that with her. 😄

 

[Shermie]

On 3/6/2022 at 7:05 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

They certainly outdo themselves on the theme though. Still don't know how they built that house. 

Roger still working on that school? We were saying this for years!

I don't think founding a church is necessarily a bad idea, but I was saying the same thing as Claire; there's a lot more people and that means way more food and shelter. I was glad Jamie started putting them to work. 

That house and barn are way too fancy and modern looking for the 1700s, at least from a bunch of frontier make-do builders. As for a school and church, yeah. Every frontier settlement had those eventually, often the same building ( like in Little House on the Prairie). Make double use of everything.

On 3/10/2022 at 2:08 PM, taanja said:

I still wonder every single time I watch this show -- why the hell those characters from the future chose to remain in the past???? 

Claire stayed (and returned) because she loved Jamie; he can’t travel to modern times because they don’t know if he can travel through the stones. Now they’re there because of Jem (is that Brianna’s kid’s name?), not sure if he can travel through the stones.