S14.E09: Is Love on the Table?

[Lindz]

Here goes Jasmina talking stupid, yet again! Like on the honeymoon when she said COMPLETE STRANGERS should just respect each other's boundaries. Now she said it's basic knowledge how to have a conversation. 😒😒 Michael made more sense than her, she didn't help at all. WHY did he bring up their miscommunication AGAIN?!?!!! A MESS!!! Jasmina just repeats herself, sitting on her high horse while apparently sinking to his level & talking in a tone to him. It's a horrible cycle! Aren't they tired of it yet?!?!!!

[Desert Rat]

On 3/2/2022 at 6:11 PM, candall said:

Two weeks?  I feel I've been following these goofy people in real time.

 

Am I the only one who thinks Noi had nothing to do with putting that treasure hunt together?

A scavenger hunt for a grown-ass man? That's not cute. It's a f*cking waste of time. Nevermind. Steve's not gainfully employed so he has hours to waste on such nonsense. 

[Booger666]

This is not getting enough attention: When talking to the men Olajuwon said about Katina “Do I need to break a chair to get her to understand?”.  Olajuwon is threatening VIOLENCE to get his wife to understand him.  He should immediately be pulled from this show and all of the spouses should get counseled.  This is completely unacceptable.  He loved bombed her two weeks prior and is now breaking her down (she’s not enough of a woman, is failing as an adult, etc.) and threatening violence - these are all hallmarks of domestic abuse.  This needs to be addressed.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Booger666

[endure]

1 hour ago, Booger666 said:

This is not getting enough attention: When talking to the men Olajuwon said about Katina “Do I need to break a chair to get her to understand?”.  Olajuwon is threatening VIOLENCE to get his wife to understand him.  He should immediately be pulled from this show and all of the spouses should get counseled.  This is completely unacceptable.  He loved bombed her two weeks prior and is now breaking her down (she’s not enough of a woman, is failing as an adult, etc.) and threatening violence - these are all hallmarks of domestic abuse.  This needs to be addressed.

She seriously needs to get away from him now, I too believe he is dangerous by what he says and how he acts.  I think he could be a malignant narcissist.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Booger666 said:

This is not getting enough attention: When talking to the men Olajuwon said about Katina “Do I need to break a chair to get her to understand?”.  Olajuwon is threatening VIOLENCE to get his wife to understand him.  He should immediately be pulled from this show and all of the spouses should get counseled.  This is completely unacceptable.  He loved bombed her two weeks prior and is now breaking her down (she’s not enough of a woman, is failing as an adult, etc.) and threatening violence - these are all hallmarks of domestic abuse.  This needs to be addressed.

That's a very good point - I missed that dialog with the men.  He is sounding more and more like a classic misogynist with possible violent tendencies.  Every time he opens his mouth his mentality goes back another decade.  He sounds like one of my great uncles who never got married because no woman was "good enough" for him.  Even my grandmother and mother used to tell him to STFU when he went on similar rants back in the 1960s!  But he was born in 1908.  What's Olajuwon's excuse?  And to think he possibly hid all of this from the show is very scary.

I understand that Katina is biting her tongue because she sees him as a "catch" with a good career and his own house but at what cost to her self respect and safety?  Run away, Katina!

[ECM1231]

14 hours ago, TzuShih said:

.  😼Aah...so....what is a Producer to do?!?!?!  (Maybe find some couples who get along AND have a genuine, fun sense of humor!)  Sigh.  I know...I probably live in a dream world....🥴

Well, Woody and Amani were one such couple. More like them, please.

 

[kristen111]

13 hours ago, qtpye said:

I'm wondering

Mistake

[kristen111]

12 hours ago, Kira53 said:

 

Doesn’t she live with her mother? She wears beautiful clothes which look expensive and she has thousands of dollars on her head with weaves and other locks that she wore on the after party. She may not have been taking care of herself.   living at home you can afford to spend everything on appearance. If she’s mostly eating out the other meals may be her mother’s cooking.   He’s bought a house, he’s paid off his school loans, he doesn’t need a roommate to help him pay the mortgage and has a steady job that has allowed him to purchase a home in a very expensive city.   He’s willing to cook and to do cleaning. Right now he does the breakfasts. The complaint that wasn’t edited out was that he has to explain or tell her what to. She says she will learn to shop for food.  50 pieces of chicken for that small crowd suggest that somebody hasn’t given a party by themselves. I guess He didn’t tell her how many pieces to order. Oh, and I think he has the right to want to have more traditional wife And Katina has the right to not want to do it and not to want to stay married to him.  

Right.  He’s right in a way, and so is she. They really don’t belong together. You just said it better than I did.

[Retired at last]

4 hours ago, Desert Rat said:

A scavenger hunt for a grown-ass man? That's not cute. It's a f*cking waste of time.

They did that last season, too. I think it was Brett and Ryan? That must be in their tool bag o' fun and games. Next week it is the sexy time activities, which are gross to watch. 

[kristen111]

14 hours ago, qtpye said:

3/3/2022 at 12:59 AM, ECM1231 said:

I'm wondering what type of relationship Olaj's parents had. Are they still together? His idea of what a wife is seems outdated. They both work f/t.

Now that being said, I'm married close to 40 years. I was a teacher when I married but only worked a short time afterward because I became a sahm after the birth of my 1st child. When my 2nd child was a bit older, I did return f/t to work, but by then my husband was so used to me cooking a home cooked meal every night, that I continued as he expected it. We're both kind of old school in that regard. When I became a sahm, I felt that cooking & cleaning was doing my fair share, as well as most of the child care. My husband did all of the yard work, house maintenance, and car care. I paid the bills because I was better at it.

However, when both work f/t it's unreasonable for one spouse to do all the cooking unless they want to.  Like perhaps one spouse likes cooking but would rather not do all the laundry. There's got to be compromise. Mr. ECM is semi-retired now and I am still cooking every night. And not by choice. Katina, stand your ground, honey!

 

ETA: Mr. ECM does make a mean bacon and eggs breakfast, as well as pancakes. He's on his own for lunch 

My marriage of over 50 years is exactly like yours.  I did it all, had kids, worked part time.  No complaints.  Now that we are retired, the tables have turned.  My husband does all the food shopping, washes, dries, and folds the clothes, and makes a big breakfast every morning and serves me.  So, if you can make it, there is a light under the tunnel.  You have to compromise a little in the beginning and get your bearings.  One person can’t do it all.  One thing tho.  My husband never yelled at me like O did.  I would have walked out.  There’s a way to argue.  56 yrs married.  Lots of patience and compromise.

P.s.  light at the end of the tunnel, lol.  Don’t know how to go back.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by kristen111

[kristen111]

20 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

And, I'm sorry, but just because a person can cook, clean, pay bills, have kids, etc., doesn't mean that's suitable for another person.  We're all different.

Yes, but being a woman yourself, a little credit is due for a woman who can do all these things to keep a family together.  Anyone who thinks it’s wrong should stay single.  Marriage and a family is not for them, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

[Crashcourse]

29 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

Yes, but being a woman yourself, a little credit is due for a woman who can do all these things to keep a family together.  Anyone who thinks it’s wrong should stay single.  Marriage and a family is not for them, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Not saying it's "wrong," just saying we're all different and there shouldn't be assumptions about what "wifely" duties should consist of. 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Crashcourse

[Booger666]

[Crashcourse]

1 minute ago, Booger666 said:

Wow.  And he looks serious saying that.  He actually looks crazy.

[kristen111]

10 minutes ago, Booger666 said:

Ok, now that is getting scary.  She should pack a bag and split.

[kristen111]

Another thing I forgot.  I believe there has to be love before getting married.  Love holds things together and gives a couple reason to stay together.  I don’t believe in this married at first sight.  Chances of staying together are slim.

[qtpye]

19 minutes ago, Booger666 said:

What is even more bizarre is that Pastor Cal said that Olaj never mentioned the cooking requirements during the whole interview process. Why did hide it if it was so dang important?

I think he might be gaslighting purposely to undermine her confidence and make her feel that she is not good enough. 

This can happen to the best of us. Particularly, with partners that consider themselves "Alphas" and always want to be the one in control of the relationship.

[Ilovepie]

Late to the party, but just came here to vent my disgust for O's attitude and comments to Katina. I was chilled to the bone by the tone and words coming out of his mouth. What a caveman. A week ago I said he was my favorite. Reverse. Lindsey is verbally abusive drunk, Alyssa is a spoiled narcissist acting out, but this guy takes the cake for me. They way he calmly told her to start living up to his standards was scary. I wanted to punch him. Who is he to demand she change for him? You want the floor mopped before bed? You do it! You want a home cooked meal every night? You make it! If your wife doesn't like to cook, she is not obligated to feed you. You are a grown ass man. Take care of yourself. Katina seemed to be doing fine taking care of herself without him. Fuck him. 

[Auntie Anxiety]

16 hours ago, princelina said:

Me neither.  But one clue was the flower that he put in her hair when they went to a berry farm - that sounds like something they did on their own, but we aren't allowed to see it because it doesn't fit in with the weeks theme of "Word Salads About Love" - are you in love?  How do you fall in love? 

I think the producers set the scavenger hunt up and they even wrote the clues which Noi was asked to transcribe in her on handwriting. The berry farm/flower he put in her hair was filmed, so it wasn’t something they did on their own. There’s a lot of filming that wasn’t used; now that Chris and Alyssa are gone, there’s more need for filler.

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

That wasn't the feminist ideal originally.  The ideal was that working women should have men that shared the housework with them equally.  Unfortunately as women went to work in record numbers in the '70s and '80s they found that the men weren't on board with their new expectations.  Women were being "liberated" but men were still stuck in the '50s in terms 

Actually, originally feminism meant that a woman should have choices about a career, just like men did.

When I was a kid, women had just a few options. Nurse, teacher, secretary, librarian, housewife/mother. I grew up with one foot in the 50’s and one foot in the 70’s. It was a confusing time.

During the next stage of feminism, women were sold a bill of goods: You can have it all. And since you can have it all (which I find questionable—you might be able to have it all, but not all at the same time because something’s got to give) you were EXPECTED to want to have it all (thus the internecine fights between moms working outside the home vs. moms who stay home). 

The world was changing, yet men weren’t expected to be involved in that change. Men didn’t go to the market, certainly not with the kids in tow, lifted their legs on Sunday when watching football so the wife could vacuum around them, and when asked to help out, did a half-assed job (so they wouldn’t be asked to help a second time). It wasn’t “manly” to do the laundry. Men “babysat” their own kids. 

Most men at this point, unlike Olajuwan, have woken up and realize they need to be more active in the household. 

[qtpye]

11 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

I think the producers set the scavenger hunt up and they even wrote the clues which Noi was asked to transcribe in her on handwriting. The berry farm/flower he put in her hair was filmed, so it wasn’t something they did on their own. There’s a lot of filming that wasn’t used; now that Chris and Alyssa are gone, there’s more need for filler.

Actually, originally feminism meant that a woman should have choices about a career, just like men did.

When I was a kid, women had just a few options. Nurse, teacher, secretary, librarian, housewife/mother. I grew up with one foot in the 50’s and one foot in the 70’s. It was a confusing time.

During the next stage of feminism, women were sold a bill of goods: You can have it all. And since you can have it all (which I find questionable—you might be able to have it all, but not all at the same time because something’s got to give) you were EXPECTED to want to have it all (thus the internecine fights between moms working outside the home vs. moms who stay home). 

The world was changing, yet men weren’t expected to be involved in that change. Men didn’t go to the market, certainly not with the kids in tow, lifted their legs on Sunday when watching football so the wife could vacuum around them, and when asked to help out, did a half-assed job (so they wouldn’t be asked to help a second time). It wasn’t “manly” to do the laundry. Men “babysat” their own kids. 

Most men at this point, unlike Olajuwan, have woken up and realize they need to be more active in the household. 

I remember being happy when I actually saw men on laundry commercials.

Again, why did Olaj never mention his attitudes about what he wants in a wife when trying out for the show? Pastor Cal should have held his feet to the fire for that omission. 

[Auntie Anxiety]

5 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Again, why did Olaj never mention his attitudes about what he wants in a wife when trying out for the show? Pastor Cal should have held his feet to the fire for that omission. 

Somewhere upthread, someone wrote that Cal didn’t know about Olajuwon’s expectations wrt a wife’s “job.” I don’t buy that. O isn’t shy about saying what he wants. If anything, Cal knew about O’s checklist and didn’t disabuse him of the notion that in 2022, few women would buy into his misgynonistic traditional ideas. 

In my opinion, Olajuwon should just hire a housekeeper.

[Lindz]

So Jasmina asked Michael WHY he hasn't had deep conversations & been vulnerable & he didn't answer! He said he intended to. Eh. They're not putting in the work at all! They're expecting the experts/producers to build their marriage for them & they're wasting precious time. That surface small talk was ridiculous. At this rate, it looks like they're not going to stay together.

[sara416]

2 hours ago, Booger666 said:

Why did no one call him out on this crazy talk? At least one of those other guys had to have thought this was over the top and scary, right?

 

[princelina]

10 hours ago, Lindz said:

Here goes Jasmina talking stupid, yet again! Like on the honeymoon when she said COMPLETE STRANGERS should just respect each other's boundaries. Now she said it's basic knowledge how to have a conversation. 😒😒 Michael made more sense than her, she didn't help at all. WHY did he bring up their miscommunication AGAIN?!?!!! A MESS!!! Jasmina just repeats herself, sitting on her high horse while apparently sinking to his level & talking in a tone to him. It's a horrible cycle! Aren't they tired of it yet?!?!!!

Apparently MAFS Law says that each couple gets one issue, and they are to discuss it constantly to the exclusion of everything else when they are on camera 😄

[red12]

17 hours ago, princelina said:

I think he thinks he provides quite a bit.  He thinks she doesn't match what he provides.

Based on what? The show has been pretty obtuse about everyone's career roles except Steve(?) and Noi.

[ByTor]

3 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Somewhere upthread, someone wrote that Cal didn’t know about Olajuwon’s expectations wrt a wife’s “job.” I don’t buy that.

I think he absolutely knew, wasn't that revelation in the 1st episode when they showed how they chose the participants?

1 hour ago, Lindz said:

Jasmina asked Michael WHY he hasn't had deep conversations & been vulnerable & he didn't answer!

I don't blame him, I'm sure he didn't feel like being condescended to once again.

[Crashcourse]

7 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I don't blame him, I'm sure he didn't feel like being condescended to once again.

She wouldn't have liked his tone if he had answered her.  

[Booger666]

7 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I think he absolutely knew, wasn't that revelation in the 1st episode when they showed how they chose the participants?

Yeah, I thought it came up in the 1st ep too.  Also when he was showing his home (but maybe to someone other than Cal) thought he talked about his wife cooking in his kitchen.  I don’t fault him for wanting a partner that cooks.  Some people’s love language is acts of service and cooking is an act of service.  I DO fault him for saying that a wife that doesn’t make full on meals for their husband “isn’t woman enough”.  It’s as disgusting as when Lindsey tore into Mark about his salary and appearance implying he wasn’t “man enough”.

[ByTor]

1 minute ago, Booger666 said:

Also when he was showing his home (but maybe to someone other than Cal)

That can be his excuse. "Pepper never told me!!" LOL

[Retired at last]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

Again, why did Olaj never mention his attitudes about what he wants in a wife when trying out for the show? Pastor Cal should have held his feet to the fire for that omission. 

I am sure that he did tell them. It is too much of who he is and he wouldn't have been able to help himself since he has no filter. Again, another "production selection." I still stand by my beliefs that the "experts" have no choice in who is selected. I believe they are just given the cast that was selected and they got to match them, the best they could. But, considering their back stories and personalities, none of these people would have been selected otherwise. They are all hot messes (well, maybe not Steve, but he doesn't really know how to blend his life with another person's) and were hired to create drama. 

And, at some point, the people will have to stop saying that they did not get what they asked for. No one will! And, again, if you know the kind of person you "WANT", and you haven't been with them yet, maybe you don't know.

[kristen111]

On 3/3/2022 at 3:43 PM, Gypsy Blue said:

I've had three long-term relationships.  The subject of cooking and cleaning has come up in every single one, and each agreement was different, based on both skillset and work schedule.

The problem I have with O is that he has this idea of what a wife's duties are, and seems to have some disdain for Katina because she doesn't measure up.  I don't see any compromise.  I don't see any sharing of duties because they both work.  Maybe there have been some compromises that we weren't privy to, and Katina agreed to do it all.  But we haven't seen those.  So he appears to be pushing his ideals on to his wife without compromise.

No way in hell would I agree to do all the cooking and cleaning while I worked full time.  I'd agree to cooking every meal, because I like to cook.  Katina doesn't appear to enjoy it.

However I feel personally, if it works for the couple, it's none of my business.  But this does not appear to work for the both of them.  He's putting ridiculous expectations on any one, let alone a working young woman trying to learn to be a wife.

Maybe his Mother or whoever grew him up cooked big meals, cleaned house and everything else, so he wants her to do the same as that’s what he’s used to.  I’ve never seen a man so adamant about women’s chores.

[Gypsy Blue]

14 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

Maybe his Mother or whoever grew him up cooked big meals, cleaned house and everything else, so he wants her to do the same as that’s what he’s used to.  I’ve never seen a man so adamant about women’s chores.

It feels to me like he's ramping up.  There were a few things mentioned here and there in the beginning.  It almost seemed funny.  But it seems like the more he isn't getting what he wants, the more adamant he's becoming, to the point where now he's implying he need to show violence to get his point across.  Did he ever tell the guys exactly what his issue with Katina is?  It seemed to me he was just ranting about how he couldn't take it, but I don't recall him saying what it was he wanted in that conversation.  I was surprised no one asked him for more details or called him on some of it.  Maybe that's just how guys talk to each other.

[LuvMyShows]

10 hours ago, cinsays said:

i think production just wanted her to ask so we could see why he was so sensitive and near tears a lot and she is just cold.

I wonder if you are confusing Michael with Zack from last season who was always near tears or actually crying.  Michael is very stoic and this crying was a first (pretty sure).

9 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

So I guess they all had their marching orders this week to talk about whether they can all fall in love.

I think it was more than just marching orders...it looks like they were all sent a bottle of champagne, two glasses, and a card.  The card looked like it contained the questions/topics, which Dr Viviana had referred to as "deeper topics to discuss".  It was interesting because some of the couples were clearly working from the card and others made it look like they were spontaneously asking the questions.

What was also interesting, although it may have just been editing, is how with some couples, the questions actually led to discussion on the topics, and with others they just answered the question quickly/briefly and moved on to the next question.

[TzuShih]

4 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

I think the producers set the scavenger hunt up and they even wrote the clues which Noi was asked to transcribe in her on handwriting. The berry farm/flower he put in her hair was filmed, so it wasn’t something they did on their own. There’s a lot of filming that wasn’t used; now that Chris and Alyssa are gone, there’s more need for filler.

Actually, originally feminism meant that a woman should have choices about a career, just like men did.

When I was a kid, women had just a few options. Nurse, teacher, secretary, librarian, housewife/mother. I grew up with one foot in the 50’s and one foot in the 70’s. It was a confusing time.

During the next stage of feminism, women were sold a bill of goods: You can have it all. And since you can have it all (which I find questionable—you might be able to have it all, but not all at the same time because something’s got to give) you were EXPECTED to want to have it all (thus the internecine fights between moms working outside the home vs. moms who stay home). 

The world was changing, yet men weren’t expected to be involved in that change. Men didn’t go to the market, certainly not with the kids in tow, lifted their legs on Sunday when watching football so the wife could vacuum around them, and when asked to help out, did a half-assed job (so they wouldn’t be asked to help a second time). It wasn’t “manly” to do the laundry. Men “babysat” their own kids. 

Most men at this point, unlike Olajuwan, have woken up and realize they need to be more active in the household. 

Auntie Anxiety - you have perfectly summed up the "historical stages of being a woman."  Our options 'way back when' were presented to us like 'The Ten Commandments.'   "Thou shall Teach or Type or Clean House...." etc. etc. etc. 

I was lucky enough to be a part of the first Women's Liberation March up Fifth Avenue, NYC in the '70s.  We all left our offices at 3PM (wherever in the city we worked) and joined up on 5th Ave, led by incredible female leaders of that era.  What an amazing day.  And it DID make a difference in my life.  I finally had the guts to leave my boring administrative job and do what I really wanted to do:  Acting and writing.  "Noble" professions?  Maybe not exactly.  😄  But right at the same time, other women were starting medical school, law school, becoming nuclear physicists, etc! 

Alas, decades later, in our CURRENT times, we're STILL fighting the good fight!  And Olajuwan should be right at the front of the line for some "re-education!!"  Seems like women will always be "teaching" - in one way or another.  👩‍⚖️  "Order in the courtroom!"

[Lindz]

Poor Olaj. So "hurt" by reality not meeting his unrealistic expectations. It's shocking to see a man be resentful & critical like that. How does that help the situation?!! I wonder if Bao is the gourmet chef he wants. 🤔😅

[Lindz]

I wish I would've seen Steve & Noi discussing what she did. I don't think it "hurt" Steve. I think that was a guilting tactic. It didn't mean he loves her. I think Noi disappeared to hurt him & it was distressing to him to not know what was going on or where she was. It was disturbing that she wasn't remorseful. Like. WTF is wrong with her?!! She's lucky he didn't react like Zack. AND he arranged a picnic to tell her he loves her???? He's looking great! Even though, loving someone & being in love with them are two different things. On the honeymoon, she said she was falling in love with him.

[kristen111]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

I think he absolutely knew, wasn't that revelation in the 1st episode when they showed how they chose the participants?

I don't blame him, I'm sure he didn't feel like being condescended to once again.

Sometimes when Jasmina talks to Michael, it’s like she is talking to one of her students.

[Lindz]

Ohhhh the polite, boring, surface small talk YET AGAIN with Lindsey & Mark. Her one word answers were funny. She took ZERO responsibility & that's a shame. Mark looked a lot better for what he said & did this episode. I agree that he's playing it right to get to DD, not stay married.

[kristen111]

1 hour ago, Gypsy Blue said:

It feels to me like he's ramping up.  There were a few things mentioned here and there in the beginning.  It almost seemed funny.  But it seems like the more he isn't getting what he wants, the more adamant he's becoming, to the point where now he's implying he need to show violence to get his point across.  Did he ever tell the guys exactly what his issue with Katina is?  It seemed to me he was just ranting about how he couldn't take it, but I don't recall him saying what it was he wanted in that conversation.  I was surprised no one asked him for more details or called him on some of it.  Maybe that's just how guys talk to each other.

I never even heard him say the chair thing.  When he did say that, why didn’t one of them call him out for that remark?

 

[princelina]

5 hours ago, red12 said:

Based on what? The show has been pretty obtuse about everyone's career roles except Steve(?) and Noi.

What I said earlier - he owns a house, has paid off his student loan debts; he fixes breakfast every morning and helps with dinner, cleaning, HIS housewarming, etc.  He has a lot of energy and I think he enjoys doing things; not all of us are built that way.  His complaint about HIS housewarming seemed to be that they shopped for decorations together, he picked up the chicken by himself, and she didn't leave the house by herself to do anything for it.  If he likes to always be busy and doing things, and expects his wife to be as busy and as doing as he is or she's not pulling her weight, I think he'll be searching for some time - most people like to relax once in a while!

5 hours ago, Retired at last said:

And, at some point, the people will have to stop saying that they did not get what they asked for. No one will! And, again, if you know the kind of person you "WANT", and you haven't been with them yet, maybe you don't know.

Which is supposed to be the premise of the show.  That's why I think they should kick those applicants who say they must be attracted immediately to the curb!

4 hours ago, Gypsy Blue said:

It feels to me like he's ramping up.  There were a few things mentioned here and there in the beginning.  It almost seemed funny.  But it seems like the more he isn't getting what he wants, the more adamant he's becoming, to the point where now he's implying he need to show violence to get his point across.  Did he ever tell the guys exactly what his issue with Katina is?  It seemed to me he was just ranting about how he couldn't take it, but I don't recall him saying what it was he wanted in that conversation.  I was surprised no one asked him for more details or called him on some of it.  Maybe that's just how guys talk to each other.

I did not hear him say the chair throwing thing.  What I remember him saying to the guys is that he does not go to bed with a dirty house, and that he has to tell her to do things that he thinks she should know.  I feel he's ramping up in his meanness and debasing her because she doesn't run the same type of household he does, and although she seems to be trying to please him she's not reading his mind and getting it right.

[Yeah No]

9 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Actually, originally feminism meant that a woman should have choices about a career, just like men did.

When I was a kid, women had just a few options. Nurse, teacher, secretary, librarian, housewife/mother. I grew up with one foot in the 50’s and one foot in the 70’s. It was a confusing time.

During the next stage of feminism, women were sold a bill of goods: You can have it all. And since you can have it all (which I find questionable—you might be able to have it all, but not all at the same time because something’s got to give) you were EXPECTED to want to have it all (thus the internecine fights between moms working outside the home vs. moms who stay home). 

The world was changing, yet men weren’t expected to be involved in that change. Men didn’t go to the market, certainly not with the kids in tow, lifted their legs on Sunday when watching football so the wife could vacuum around them, and when asked to help out, did a half-assed job (so they wouldn’t be asked to help a second time). It wasn’t “manly” to do the laundry. Men “babysat” their own kids. 

Most men at this point, unlike Olajuwan, have woken up and realize they need to be more active in the household. 

Yes, I know that feminism originally meant that women should have the freedom to pursue a career outside of having a family.  But that also set up their expectations to have a partner that would share the household duties with them should they decide to pursue a career.  When that didn't happen they burned out and became dissatisfied.  The second wave of "feminism" wasn't really feminism at all.  It pushed the idea that women could have it all, a career and a family.  Yeah, but because the men weren't on board with pitching in to make that possible, their wives ended up DOING it all too. 

I was born in the late '50s and saw the changes happening in the 1960s.  I witnessed the women's movement demonstrations in Manhattan.  My mother read Betty Friedan and worked full time when I was a kid when no one else's mother worked outside the home.  Even back in the 1960s my father's attitude was more sophisticated than Olajuwon's.  He didn't expect my mom to do it all, but then again he didn't want to do any housework either.  And because they couldn't afford a cleaning person they often had friction over it.  Despite this, my father was actually ahead of his time for a guy born in the 1920s.  He was more like the men of my generation, who were on board with women's equality and pursuit of a career.  They didn't expect a maid but didn't really get it that if their wives were going to have a career they should take more responsibility for household chores, shopping and cooking.  They did a little but not enough in their partners' eyes.  Olajuwon's attitude is from a time before that.  I know some men in their 60s that have his mentality but all of them came from families that were very old fashioned and quite honestly very unsophisticated and male chauvinistic in their attitudes.

[TwirlyGirly]

 

On 3/3/2022 at 12:05 AM, princelina said:

 [Olajuwan] is the one who doesn't seem ready to be married, since he only wants the perfect wife who exists in his head and can't get on board with a real human being.  I felt bad for [Katina].

I'm late to the party this season; I've watched every episode but haven't been active here.

Olajuwan's B.S. this week compels me to comment.

The producers love it when the wives plan activities for themselves and their spouses (and vice-versa). If I were Katina, I know exactly what activity I'd plan for Olajuwan and myself; movie night!

I'd rent one of these cool home theatre popcorn machines:

Then, I'd buy all the good candy; theatre size!

I'd turn the lights down low, cuddle up to Olajuwan on the sofa, whisper into his ear "This one's just for you, babe - made especially for men with your...desires..." 

Then I'd hit "Play":

 

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, Retired at last said:

I am sure that he did tell them. It is too much of who he is and he wouldn't have been able to help himself since he has no filter. Again, another "production selection." I still stand by my beliefs that the "experts" have no choice in who is selected. I believe they are just given the cast that was selected and they got to match them, the best they could. But, considering their back stories and personalities, none of these people would have been selected otherwise. They are all hot messes (well, maybe not Steve, but he doesn't really know how to blend his life with another person's) and were hired to create drama. 

I have been saying that the experts don't pick the couples since about season 3 and I know I posted that opinion every season even when it was unpopular to do so.  Now everybody sees it.  The producers pick the couples for maximum drama in some cases.  I think others have been genuine matches.  It seems like the last couple of seasons have been all for drama with no "real" matches at all.  So I don't blame the "experts" for these choices.  I do blame them for engaging in the charade and deception that they are involved in it, but I notice that as the seasons progress they seem to be taking more of a back seat in just about every way.  They are still sell outs to their profession.  I don't think Pastor Cal is a professional therapist but I am sure that if he really had any say in who gets chosen he wouldn't be choosing most of these couples.  The fact that any of them are willing to be associated with making such bad matches just goes to show how desperate they are for money and fame and how little professional ethics they have. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, princelina said:

What I said earlier - he owns a house, has paid off his student loan debts; he fixes breakfast every morning and helps with dinner, cleaning, HIS housewarming, etc.  He has a lot of energy and I think he enjoys doing things; not all of us are built that way.  His complaint about HIS housewarming seemed to be that they shopped for decorations together, he picked up the chicken by himself, and she didn't leave the house by herself to do anything for it.  If he likes to always be busy and doing things, and expects his wife to be as busy and as doing as he is or she's not pulling her weight, I think he'll be searching for some time - most people like to relax once in a while!

I also noticed his choice of words referring to it as HIS housewarming, like it all revolves around him and Katina is his subordinate and maid that should be doing the menial work.  He devalued the work she DID do for it because it didn't involve her in the kitchen cooking or cleaning.  When she tried to defend herself that she did contribute to the housewarming, he acted like it wasn't work at all, as if delegating and organizing are not real work.  He acts like because she's home more than he is (which I gathered she is but working from home) she is basically not working so she should have the time to do all the physical grunt work too.  But just because someone works at home doesn't mean they aren't doing anything and should be doing all the housework too.  That's another recipe for burnout.  But it's just another example of how misogynistic and male chauvinistic he is.  To him a women isn't really working unless she's doing "women's work", down on her hands and knees scrubbing the floor.  Unless Katina does stuff like that he will continue to completely overlook and devalue anything she does no matter how much work it involves.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Yeah No

[StatisticalOutlier]

5 hours ago, kristen111 said:

I never even heard him say the chair thing.  When he did say that, why didn’t one of them call him out for that remark?

There's a photo of it upthread.   They showed him saying it twice--right before a commercial and they repeated it after the commercial.

On 3/2/2022 at 8:57 PM, JenE4 said:

O pronounces the L in salmon—a hard L at that: sahLman.

The cooking teacher did it, too, so I'm giving Olajuwon a pass.

I've tried, and I just can't detect the "tone" that Katina keeps saying Michael has that she finds so objectionable. 

ETA: I'm tired of them putting significant information on the after show.  I think it's less important for us to see a stupid scavenger hunt (that apparently took him two hours) than to hear that in the last 10 years, according to Lindsey, Mark hasn't had a relationship that lasted longer than 2 months, and that he was always a side-piece, and even proposed to a woman who had a boyfriend.

Edited March 5, 2022 by StatisticalOutlier

[Adeejay]

5 hours ago, kristen111 said:

I never even heard him say the chair thing.  When he did say that, why didn’t one of them call him out for that remark?

 

That is because Ola didn’t say “chair.” The close caption was incorrect. I can’t stand the guy, but in all fairness what he said was, “I don’t know if I need to break a TEAR for her to understand.”  I re-watched the scene because I believe the other guys would have been uncomfortable with him “breaking a chair” and most likely would have said something. 

[gingerandcloves]

3 hours ago, Adeejay said:

That is because Ola didn’t say “chair.” The close caption was incorrect. I can’t stand the guy, but in all fairness what he said was, “I don’t know if I need to break a TEAR for her to understand.”  I re-watched the scene because I believe the other guys would have been uncomfortable with him “breaking a chair” and most likely would have said something. 

I rewatched and it does seem like he says "break a tear" but what does that even mean?

[ByTor]

33 minutes ago, gingerandcloves said:

I rewatched and it does seem like he says "break a tear" but what does that even mean?

I guess cry?

[Lindz]

From crying tears of happiness on the honeymoon to crying because her husband is being super critical. Poor Kat. Hey. I get it. Only criticism & no praise is discouraging. Lindsey was in the same boat. So was Noi with the noodles. Michael is with his "tone" the many times it's brought up. 😅 How people haven't learned not to just criticize their partner is beyond me. That's basic knowledge.

[Lindz]

8 hours ago, princelina said:

I feel he's ramping up in his meanness and debasing her because she doesn't run the same type of household he does, and although she seems to be trying to please him she's not reading his mind and getting it right.

He is being very mean & it's totally uncalled for. He told the cameras he's not there to help her grow as an individual. He says he understands she's adjusting, then has no patience. I thought he was helping her out to be a kind partner, not criticize. The sweeping thing gets to me. I think of José cleaning up after the party with no complaints, & here's O bitching about cleaning. Did she not praise him along with whining & trying to do as little as possible? Is that why he's bitching? He's super resentful of her not picking up her slack. Why go that route instead of the productive one of encouraging her & figuring out what'll work best for BOTH of them? Oh ya. His way is the only way that matters. 😒 She shouldn't have to read his mind. It's crazy for him to expect her to know what he expects her to do.