S06.E05: Heart and Soul

[mansonlamps]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

And Rebecca also sprung this on Kate without discussing it with her.  Kate went down to breakfast just like all the other mornings to see her brothers getting their bowls of whatever sugary cereal the Pearsons liked and she had half a grapefruit when the day before she was eating a bowl of Fruit Loops.  Rebecca also went extreme on Kate's diet breakfast when she could have discreetly switched the sugary cereal with Corn Flakes and Banana for all the kids.  I know it was the 80s and diet research for kids was practically nonexistent, but half a grapefruit for a growing kid is not a healthy breakfast.  That is the diet breakfast of an adult who also mainlines coffee and cigarettes.  

I had no problem with the grapefruit breakfast,  but I agree it would have been a better idea to switch the whole family to a healthier cereal option and introduce family physical activities like bicycling, walking or swimming together so Kate didn't feel singled out.  On the other hand,  she no doubt knew she was chubby and was teased at school,  so Jack did by far the worse disservice in feeding her ice cream surreptitiously and making that their special time together.  Talk about introducing a f'd up relationship with men and food for a kid who already has a weight issue. 

[chocolatine]

5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Okay, since it's been brought up several times now I have to ask what's wrong with grapefruit for breakfast? I remember it being all the rage in the 80s  - had the term being around I'm sure it would have been touted as 'superfood' and it was suggested as healthy breakfast for everybody. So what was Rebecca doing wrong here? Was it that she just served it to Kate and let the boys have cornflakes? 

 

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I know it was the 80s and diet research for kids was practically nonexistent, but half a grapefruit for a growing kid is not a healthy breakfast.  That is the diet breakfast of an adult who also mainlines coffee and cigarettes.  

I'm sure there *was* enough research in the late '80s to know that half a grapefruit does not qualify as an adequate meal for a school-age child. It should have been accompanied by a bowl of oatmeal or a boiled egg with a piece of whole wheat toast. There was also enough research to know that a balanced meal should contain all three macronutrients, and that deprivation leads to cravings. Unless Kate's doctor explicitly told Rebecca to only let Kate have the grapefruit (many doctors give terrible diet advice), I don't give her a pass on this.

[MamaBird]

Quote

If we could have whispered to Randall and Beth at dinner that night, "Hey, don't worry. Turns out fine. She's a doctor later, all is good," there would have been far less angst and drama. But that's where we viewers are. Why worry what they do now? It turns out fine.

While we know how these characters' stories ended, we don't know what actions they took, and the other people in their lives took, that led to that ending.  If we whispered to them that Deja turns out fine, their first question would be, "So what do we do in this situation, that results in her turning out fine?"  Maybe the angst and drama were important steps on the road to the right decision.

[MissLucas]

So, I went back to the breakfast scene. First of all, Rebecca does not spring the grapefruit on Kate out of the blue. She tells her: 'We talked about this'. It's also not just a grapefruit, but it was filled with cottage cheese. Aunt Google revealed to me that this is still advertised as comfort food or power breakfast , some recipes add stuff like chia seeds or bananas but you can still find the 2 ingredients variant. If that info is still out there I don't see why Rebecca back in the 80s should have known better.

The icing on the cake of this scene is Jack rushing in, saying 'Yuck' when he sees what's on Kate's plate and then sprinkles the grapefruit with something called 'Pac Man' (Crunchy Sweetened Cereal with Marshmallow Bits). 

Was a grapefruit cottage cheese bowl the perfect breakfast for Kate? Probably not but Rebecca tried while Jack did his best to send the clear message 'This sucks and is all wrong' and then sabotaged the whole idea. And we know that wasn't the only time he did this.

Edited February 4, 2022 by MissLucas

[ams1001]

8 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

It's also not just a grapefruit, but it was filled with cottage cheese. Aunt Google revealed to me that this is still advertised as comfort food

I'm sorry, cottage cheese and "comfort food" do not go together in my mind. (I do like grapefruit, though it's not what I go for when I want comfort food, either.)

[chocolatine]

15 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

So, I went back to the breakfast scene. First of all, Rebecca does not spring the grapefruit on Kate out of the blue. She tells her: 'We talked about this'. It's also not just a grapefruit, but it was filled with cottage cheese.

I just watched that scene again too, and it's actually not a grapefruit, but a cantaloupe! That doesn't change the fact that it wasn't a healthy breakfast, that it was wrong of Rebecca to single Kate out while the boys got to eat cereal, and that Jack and Rebecca weren't on the same page about how to approach Kate's weight problem. But I just wanted to point out that I've been talking about the wrong fruit the whole time. 😀 

Edited February 4, 2022 by chocolatine

[izabella]

Frankly, none of them should have been eating sugary, carb-loaded cereal.  And pretty much all cereals are sugar and carb heavy, even the so-called "healthy" cereals.  Corn flakes aren't healthy, for example, just slightly less sugar than Cap'n Crunch.  Kellogg's wanted a money-maker and sold Americans on the joy of corn syrup and processed corn. 

Imagine my surprise as a child when visiting family in the European country where I was born and there was not a box of cereal ANYWHERE in the city.  I was given fresh fruit, yogurt (lots of plain, no-sugar added yogurt they made at home because it's easy), boiled eggs, tomatoes, cheese, sliced bell peppers, maybe a small piece of bread, maybe.  And it was delicious - I didn't miss the cereal at all.

The 80's were full of bad diet advice.  And good, healthy eating advice.  It may seem like a long time ago, but it wasn't the stone age.  Portion control, low-fat, low-sugar, low carb, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, liquid diets....Oprah freaking tried them all and highlighted them all on her show!  I'm surprised Rebecca never watched Oprah.

Edited February 4, 2022 by izabella

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, chocolatine said:

I just watched that scene again too, and it's actually not a grapefruit, but a cantaloupe! That doesn't change the fact that it wasn't a healthy breakfast, that it was wrong of Rebecca to single Kate out while the boys got to eat cereal, and that Jack and Rebecca weren't on the same page about how to approach Kate's weight problem. But I just wanted to point out that we've been talking about the wrong fruit the whole time. 😀 

Cantaloupe and cottage cheese is marginally better than grapefruit and cottage cheese, but still not great when your brothers are eating sugary cereal.  Unless the kid actually likes both of those.  I would have gone to town on cottage cheese and pineapple or cottage cheese and peaches, but I have always loved cottage cheese.  Cantaloupe was disgusting until I learned about Tajin as an adult.  

 

[qtpye]

9 minutes ago, izabella said:

Frankly, none of them should have been eating sugary, carb-loaded cereal.  And pretty much all cereals are sugar and carb heavy, even the so-called "healthy" cereals.  Corn flakes aren't healthy, for example, just slightly less sugar than Cap'n Crunch.  Kellogg's wanted a money-maker and sold Americans on the joy of corn syrup and processed corn. 

Imagine my surprise as a child when visiting family in the European country where I was born and there was not a box of cereal ANYWHERE in the city.  I was given fresh fruit, yogurt (lots of plain, no-sugar added yogurt they made at home because it's easy), boiled eggs, tomatoes, cheese, sliced bell peppers, maybe a small piece of bread, maybe.  And it was delicious - I didn't miss the cereal at all.

The 80's were full of bad diet advice.  And good, healthy eating advice.  It may seem like a long time ago, but it wasn't the stone age.  Portion control, low-fat, low-sugar, low carb, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, liquid diets....Oprah freaking tried them all and highlighted them all on her show!  I'm surprised Rebecca never watched Oprah.

Oh, Lord…does anyone remember Oprah’s little red wagon of fat she dragged out after being on a nothing but juice diet for many months?

I was too young too see it but I remember her screaming with happiness.

Of course, she gained back a pound and a half for every pound she lost.

 

[mansonlamps]

2 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Oh, Lord…does anyone remember Oprah’s little red wagon of fat she dragged out after being on a nothing but juice diet for many months?

I was too young too see it but I remember her screaming with happiness.

Of course, she gained back a pound and a half for every pound she lost.

 

Yeah,  Oprah is the last person I would recommend going to for diet advice.  I can't believe Weight Watchers made her their spokesperson,  why not go for someone who actually lost weight and kept it off like Marie Osmond )I know it can't be her specifically because of Nutrisystem, but someone similar).

[izabella]

4 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Oh, Lord…does anyone remember Oprah’s little red wagon of fat she dragged out after being on a nothing but juice diet for many months?

I was too young too see it but I remember her screaming with happiness.

Of course, she gained back a pound and a half for every pound she lost.

 

I remember!  She wore a black turtleneck and black jeans she probably never once fit into again after that.

[qtpye]

6 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

Yeah,  Oprah is the last person I would recommend going to for diet advice.  I can't believe Weight Watchers made her their spokesperson,  why not go for someone who actually lost weight and kept it off like Marie Osmond )I know it can't be her specifically because of Nutrisystem, but someone similar).

 

6 minutes ago, izabella said:

I remember!  She wore a black turtleneck and black jeans she probably never once fit into again after that.

Kate was lucky that Rebecca was not like Joan Rivers.  She literally shames Oprah for her weight.  
 

 

[kili]

Quote

I was wondering about that, Didn’t Nicky ask Kevin to help him buy a new mobile home previously?  Or maybe it was for help with repairs.  

Nicky asked Kevin to leave him alone. Kevin insisted on trying to repair Nicky's leaking camper and bought a brand new RV to park next to him. When Kevin left to go back to LA, he asked Nicky to look after the new RV (basically, suggested he move into it). Nicky was more receptive to help at that time, so he took over. 

Kevin, Nicky, Cassidy and Eddie were in the old cabin this episode. The new cabin/house is being built over-looking the old cabin (which we  still see when somebody is entering the new house in the future).

Quote

Oh, Lord…does anyone remember Oprah’s little red wagon of fat she dragged out after being on a nothing but juice diet for many months?

The 80s were full of so many bad dieting advice. Lemonade diets, grape fruit diets, maple syrup diet (seriously!), new diets every week. Lots of wonderful stuff to destroy your metabolism and doom you to failure. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by kili

[qtpye]

13 minutes ago, kili said:

Nicky asked Kevin to leave him alone. Kevin insisted on trying to repair Nicky's leaking camper and bought a brand new RV to park next to him. When Kevin left to go back to LA, he asked Nicky to look after the new RV (basically, suggested he move into it). Nicky was more receptive to help at that time, so he took over. 

Kevin, Nicky, Cassidy and Eddie were in the old cabin this episode. The new cabin/house is being built over-looking the old cabin (which we  still see when somebody is entering the new house in the future).

The 80s were full of so many bad dieting advice. Lemonade diets, grape fruit diets, maple syrup diet (seriously!), new diets every week. Lots of wonderful stuff to destroy your metabolism and doom you to failure. 

Exactly, the video with Joan Rivers shows how ignorant people were at that time. Joan actually talks about only eating 800 calories of cookies a day for her “diet”.

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

But I just wanted to point out that I've been talking about the wrong fruit the whole time. 😀 

Damn, I thought that looked like a ginormous grapefruit LOL!

Dietary advice changes all the time, I still remember the times when eggs were supposed to be fowls' revenge leading us all to an early grave. In 30 years on people will roll their eyes at plenty of things we consider healthy nowadays. 

I had various food allergies as a kid, it sucked - but I never expected my siblings to share my diet. 

Bottom line is that I think Rebecca can't be blamed alone for Kate's problems. I'd say that is much more on Jack. He screwed up Kate. Rebecca screwed up Randall. They both screwed up Kevin 😁

Edited February 4, 2022 by MissLucas

[izabella]

Jack taught Kate to eat her feelings.  That is what did the most damage, IMO.

[ljenkins782]

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Quote

 

So, I went back to the breakfast scene. First of all, Rebecca does not spring the grapefruit on Kate out of the blue. She tells her: 'We talked about this'. It's also not just a grapefruit, but it was filled with cottage cheese.

 

I just watched that scene again too, and it's actually not a grapefruit, but a cantaloupe! That doesn't change the fact that it wasn't a healthy breakfast, that it was wrong of Rebecca to single Kate out while the boys got to eat cereal, and that Jack and Rebecca weren't on the same page about how to approach Kate's weight problem. But I just wanted to point out that I've been talking about the wrong fruit the whole time. 😀 

I'm ashamed of how much time I spent trying to figure the logistics of "filling" a grapefruit with cottage cheese, so the news that it was actually a cantaloupe, which has a built-in hole, eases my mind on that front, lol.

Quote

Jack taught Kate to eat her feelings.  That is what did the most damage, IMO.

Yeah, between the secret trips to ice cream shops, the mild sabotage of Rebecca's efforts, etc, he made food part of their relationship and the comfort she found in it vs the friction between her Rebecca. He was her safe space and food was part of the deal, so once he was gone, food was all that was left.

[mansonlamps]

I was at my car dealership for an extended period recently waiting for a repair so I got treated to two wealthy older women's conversation for hours.  They were probably upper 70's, both very well dressed and probably 100 lbs and had just met.   Literally all they talked about was their weight and how they just take a couple of bites of food and they're stuffed.   Their thinness was such a source of pride for them! .  I can't fathom spending your entire adult life basically starving yourself so you can feel good about yourself and look down on others for being normal sized or god forbid chubby.  I imagine Rebecca's mother being like this and having a chubby daughter was probably unsettling for Rebecca, so she was probably just doing what she thought was best for Kate.  I never thought she was mean or insulting, just doing the best she knew how like most parents. 

[PRgal]

7 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

I was at my car dealership for an extended period recently waiting for a repair so I got treated to two wealthy older women's conversation for hours.  They were probably upper 70's, both very well dressed and probably 100 lbs and had just met.   Literally all they talked about was their weight and how they just take a couple of bites of food and they're stuffed.   Their thinness was such a source of pride for them! .  I can't fathom spending your entire adult life basically starving yourself so you can feel good about yourself and look down on others for being normal sized or god forbid chubby.  I imagine Rebecca's mother being like this and having a chubby daughter was probably unsettling for Rebecca, so she was probably just doing what she thought was best for Kate.  I never thought she was mean or insulting, just doing the best she knew how like most parents. 

Some people are big on eating healthfully - I've been criticized for eating "too clean" and needing to "live a little" when I tell them I don't like Frappuccinos.  I just don't.  What do I know, though?  I've been thin my whole life.Other Media

 

Were these ladies shorter?  Short people often have a fear of gaining too much, too quickly because we fill out easily.

[MamaGee]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:08 PM, Jax7917 said:

Kevin needs therapy . He has no idea what he wants

Except he'd end up with a 4th blonde woman he would sleep with!

[Empress1]

44 minutes ago, MamaGee said:

Except he'd end up with a 4th blonde woman he would sleep with!

Well, that would be her fault - therapists are supposed to know better!

I think, as someone else said, that he does know what he wants (a family), he just doesn’t know how to get it, and hasn’t considered the possibility that not everyone gets One Great Love. He keeps trying to force it. I do think he’s loved some of the women in his past (Sophie, Zoe), but he’s also the guy who took a woman on one date and had John Legend serenading them, like, go for coffee, my guy. And with Cassidy he was trying to forge a connection that they just don’t have - they both regretted sleeping together when it happened. They may have a platonic connection but they don’t have a romantic one. 

Part of it is that he was raised on the idea of One Great Love and he’s seen it with Randall and Beth too, so it’s in his orbit. But as he said when Madison told him she was pregnant, the loves of his life could be his kids, and that would be great! Millions of dollars and two healthy (I assume) kids is a great life!

And I think another part is that he’s failed upward a bunch (was great at football, got hurt, and then managed to fall into a lucrative acting career), and there have always been women around because he looks like THAT and is not an asshole, and so where is his soulmate, dammit? Like, stuff usually works out for him, so this should too. But we don’t always have control over love.

[debraran]

The writers before Alexandra got VR, said Kevin was maturing. He had cheated being dumb, then his alcoholism came into play and then he was to mature after a string of life changing moments. Back then he was to earn that ring Claire said he was too immature to earn then, to give Sophie and she always told him not to settle. When he visited her grave,  he asked for another chance and he'd earn it and I think on the picture it said not to settle. I'm not saying Madison is "settling" in the sense she isn't  good person, but making lemonade out of lemons (always hated that even when Dr K said it) isn't right in this scenario. As the kids grew and they didn't, he wouldn't just be content with marriage that was forced by the kids.

Claire knew him better than Rebecca, his second mom. I want him to find Sophie again as a mature man. She doesn't marry that guy or it didn't last. When she looked at the ring still in box and didn't put it on, that said millions. It was supposed to be worn at her wedding. "It's too late" he said but it really wasn't. That's why he slept with Madison on the rebound. He needs one way or another to face that ghost and put it to rest or finally marry his Princess bride.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by debraran

[Johnny Dollar]

I hate the word “slut”, but Kate, who got pregnant by her abusive boyfriend, has no business throwing that word at her mother for meeting a guy for coffee.

I predict Malik will heed Randall’s advice and break up with Deja.

 

[Medicine Crow]

7 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Cantaloupe and cottage cheese is marginally better than grapefruit and cottage cheese, but still not great when your brothers are eating sugary cereal.  Unless the kid actually likes both of those.  I would have gone to town on cottage cheese and pineapple or cottage cheese and peaches, but I have always loved cottage cheese.  Cantaloupe was disgusting until I learned about Tajin as an adult.  

 

Cantaloupe & cottage cheese or ricotta with a little sprinkle of cinnamon is a big treat for me on the week-end.

[CrystalBlue]

13 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I hate the word “slut”, but Kate, who got pregnant by her abusive boyfriend, has no business throwing that word at her mother for meeting a guy for coffee.

I predict Malik will heed Randall’s advice and break up with Deja.

 

From your keyboard to the writers' desk!  We know Deja's future is bright and successful so this drama playing out is just wasted drama.

Yes, Kate was out of line calling her mother a slut on so many levels.

[maggiemae]

9 hours ago, izabella said:

Jack taught Kate to eat her feelings.  That is what did the most damage, IMO.

Exactly...rather than let's you and me take a walk and talk about this.

[cameron]

On 2/3/2022 at 1:09 PM, himela said:

That's too cruel for a kid who lost her beloved dad at 17.

She needs to realize that everyone suffered the lost of a husband/dad in that family; not just her.  So over the pity poor me attitude.

[Scarlett45]

12 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I hate the word “slut”, but Kate, who got pregnant by her abusive boyfriend, has no business throwing that word at her mother for meeting a guy for coffee.

I predict Malik will heed Randall’s advice and break up with Deja.

 

That’s why I wonder if Kate had guilt/anger/other unresolved feelings about her abortion and the relationship with Mark- Rebecca was just a target for all that. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

That’s why I wonder if Kate had guilt/anger/other unresolved feelings about her abortion and the relationship with Mark- Rebecca was just a target for all that. 

It very well could be.  One thing I have been thinking about is how each of the Pearsons are in their own silo dealing with their own feelings alone.  They are all grieving, but because of Jack they do not know how to talk to each other.  Jack taught Randall to exercise out his feelings,  Kate learned to use food to soothe her pain, and Kevin was straight up told he is not allowed to feel anything bad.  None of the kids were given the tools to deal with life and their feelings.   

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

It very well could be.  One thing I have been thinking about is how each of the Pearsons are in their own silo dealing with their own feelings alone.  They are all grieving, but because of Jack they do not know how to talk to each other.  Jack taught Randall to exercise out his feelings,  Kate learned to use food to soothe her pain, and Kevin was straight up told he is not allowed to feel anything bad.  None of the kids were given the tools to deal with life and their feelings.   

I think after Jack died we have seen examples of Rebecca and Randall actually talking about things, and there are many examples of Kevin/Kate being emotionally close and vulnerable. 
 

But in this “flashback segment” Jack’s death is 1-2 years ago and Kate’s in a really bad place. Not that Randall and Kevin don’t miss Jack, but they are starting their young adult lives. Randall in the throes of the start of his romance with Beth, Kevin is trying the acting thing. Kate is still really depressed and unlike Kevin and Jack who took to alcohol, she took to food. 
 

I can understand how Kate feels alone. She doesn’t seem to have any friends her own age. She had her first boyfriend and he was an abusive douche. Her brothers are off doing fun an exciting things (in her mind). In Rebecca’s place I would’ve told her a condition of living in my home was taking some classes at community college and getting another part-time job- having something to do may have helped Kate. 

[debraran]

15 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think after Jack died we have seen examples of Rebecca and Randall actually talking about things, and there are many examples of Kevin/Kate being emotionally close and vulnerable. 
 

But in this “flashback segment” Jack’s death is 1-2 years ago and Kate’s in a really bad place. Not that Randall and Kevin don’t miss Jack, but they are starting their young adult lives. Randall in the throes of the start of his romance with Beth, Kevin is trying the acting thing. Kate is still really depressed and unlike Kevin and Jack who took to alcohol, she took to food. 
 

I can understand how Kate feels alone. She doesn’t seem to have any friends her own age. She had her first boyfriend and he was an abusive douche. Her brothers are off doing fun an exciting things (in her mind). In Rebecca’s place I would’ve told her a condition of living in my home was taking some classes at community college and getting another part-time job- having something to do may have helped Kate. 

Why do you think that the writers wanted it that way? I agree, even my mom would have insisted on that and she liked us living with her. Easier to write her later the way the adult Kate/Chrissy was?  Why did they have Kate so one dimensional? Why was her weight even when not morbidly obese, always the shows focus? Her singing etc was secondary and we all know weight, although people judge, doesn't prevent friendships. Whether when I was a child or my kids time frame, being slightly heavy or even heavy doesn't prevent you from being involved in clubs, activities, choirs, etc. She had the record store job to introduce the douche, but did she babysit, try to fill her resume for college with things they might like? I don't get it, except that the writers felt it would be more believable she let herself gain over 100lbs in a year or so, because she had nothing. And ignoring weight is one thing, but watching someone go from 20lbs overweight to over 250lbs or more is frightening I'm sure. It's not a PC thing, she has the right too but the weight on her organs, her knees and heart etc and issues to come later, doesn't mean you are an awful person to care but nagging is another thing. People will try to find balance with someone who does anything too much, food, alcohol, gambling but it has to come from within them. I get that but it seemed they painted her so narrowly, I never could invest as much in her character.

[Scarlett45]

13 minutes ago, debraran said:

Why do you think that the writers wanted it that way? I agree, even my mom would have insisted on that and she liked us living with her. Easier to write her later the way the adult Kate/Chrissy was?  Why did they have Kate so one dimensional? Why was her weight even when not morbidly obese, always the shows focus? Her singing etc was secondary and we all know weight, although people judge, doesn't prevent friendships. Whether when I was a child or my kids time frame, being slightly heavy or even heavy doesn't prevent you from being involved in clubs, activities, choirs, etc. She had the record store job to introduce the douche, but did she babysit, try to fill her resume for college with things they might like? I don't get it, except that the writers felt it would be more believable she let herself gain over 100lbs in a year or so, because she had nothing. And ignoring weight is one thing, but watching someone go from 20lbs overweight to over 250lbs or more is frightening I'm sure. It's not a PC thing, she has the right too but the weight on her organs, her knees and heart etc and issues to come later, doesn't mean you are an awful person to care but nagging is another thing. People will try to find balance with someone who does anything too much, food, alcohol, gambling but it has to come from within them. I get that but it seemed they painted her so narrowly, I never could invest as much in her character.

Well, a lot of parts of Kate’s story seem very real to me. The not having friends, or a part-time job/school does not seem typical. They could’ve written one close friend for Kate at this time and had them hang out together. 
 

But the other parts seem real- as Kevin said in Season 2, they are a family of addicts. Kevin & Jack went for the alcohol, Kate went for the food (which is more common than alcohol in the late 20th/21st century I think). I could see Rebecca not saying anything IF Kate was doing okay in other areas of her life- if she was in school, working, and seemingly “adjusted” I could see a woman grieving her husband go “she’s gonna be okay, I don’t want to hurt her feelings.” I also think that Rebecca always felt emotionally distant from Kate and Kevin in a way she didn’t feel with Randall- but RANDALL even told her that Kevin was drunk and Kate was binging. 
 

I am not blaming Rebecca here- having adult children is hard. Kevin moved out and went for his acting dream, but Kate was still living under her roof. Hindsight is 20/20 and she could’ve tried a bit harder to guide her, but I don’t think she was neglectful at all. That part of parenting feels VERY real to me. 
 

I think the writing for Kate could’ve been a lot better, what was she doing with herself before she was Kevin’s assistant? (Besides waitressing and having sex with that married guy) This is why I think she needs at least ONE friend to talk to in this time, so we can get her thoughts/feelings. I can only imagine how alone she feels without her brothers at home. 

[Madding crowd]

I think we have to assume all of the characters on all tv shows have friends, they just are not shown because they are not part of a particular storyline. I have heard comments many times on why doesn’t Kate have friends? Why doesn’t Randall, Beth, Beth’s mom, Rebecca, Miguel, Deja, etc have friends? We have to assume they do, their stories are focused on other things.

[SunnyBeBe]

22 hours ago, kili said:

Nicky asked Kevin to leave him alone. Kevin insisted on trying to repair Nicky's leaking camper and bought a brand new RV to park next to him. When Kevin left to go back to LA, he asked Nicky to look after the new RV (basically, suggested he move into it). Nicky was more receptive to help at that time, so he took over. 

So, where were they having dinner with Nicky, his date, Kevin and Cassidy?

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, where were they having dinner with Nicky, his date, Kevin and Cassidy?

They are in the Pearsons cabin in the Poconos.   Nicky is living there supervising the building of Jack's dream house for Kevin.  Nicky is no longer in the trailer where Kevin found him nor in the RV Kevin left for him.  

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

I think we have to assume all of the characters on all tv shows have friends, they just are not shown because they are not part of a particular storyline. I have heard comments many times on why doesn’t Kate have friends? Why doesn’t Randall, Beth, Beth’s mom, Rebecca, Miguel, Deja, etc have friends? We have to assume they do, their stories are focused on other things.

I think we ask about Kate because they don’t write anyone else for her to bounce things off of- besides Kevin. We see Rebecca and Miguel being friends, we see Randall talking to Beth or a therapist. The audience wants to be told (if not shown) why Kate acts the way she does, or what she thinks- since she’s angry at her Mom a friend would be a way to do that (since her brothers are occupied). Or have her on the phone with Randall sharing WHY she went off on Rebecca and how she feels about it. 

[Rootbeer]

On 2/3/2022 at 4:32 PM, qtpye said:

I remember that there was a backlash against the weight loss contract. So I think it has more to do with the bad publicity around the contract than the actress's feelings but who knows?

If you read the article, although Chrissy Metz said there was a weight loss clause in her contract, she later clarified that the contract did not contain a specific weight or deadline for achieving it.  TPTB have said that the contract indicated that, if she did lose weight, it would be part of Kate's storyline and written into the show.  But, there was never an absolute requirement that she lose weight.

It seems pretty obvious that TPTB wanted to cast an obese actress to play Kate just as they wanted a handsome movie-star type for Kevin and a black man to play Randall.  Hollywood contracts almost always contain appearance clauses that indicate what an actor may or may not change during the run of the contract.  It only makes sense that an actress hired in part due to her size would have a clause addressing the possibility that she might or might not lose weight.

It sounds like Fogelman had based Kate's character on his sister who had been significantly overweight and then lost it and that Chrissy was aware that Fogelman had that storyline in mind for Kate when she was hired.  But she was never told she HAD to lose weight or risk losing the job or anything else.  Considering she has been an integral part of the show with or without emphasis on her weight seems to indicate that the 'weight loss clause' was more an assurance that she could lose weight and not lose the job.

As someone who is also significantly overweight, it does seem odd to me that Kate has encountered no obstacles whatsoever due to her weight.  Simple stuff like fitting in the seat on an airplane, being able to get down on the floor and play with her young kids, being able to go on hikes or to the park with her kids or her students would all be difficult for her and there is no reason not to mention it in passing, at least.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Rootbeer

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think the writing for Kate could’ve been a lot better, what was she doing with herself before she was Kevin’s assistant? (Besides waitressing and having sex with that married guy) This is why I think she needs at least ONE friend to talk to in this time, so we can get her thoughts/feelings. I can only imagine how alone she feels without her brothers at home. 

I'm wondering where Sophie was at this time.  Wasn't she married to Kevin?  And living in Pittsburgh while Kevin went off for acting jobs?  Why wasn't she still Kate's friend at this point?  Maybe she was too busy studying to be a nurse.

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

I think we have to assume all of the characters on all tv shows have friends, they just are not shown because they are not part of a particular storyline. I have heard comments many times on why doesn’t Kate have friends? Why doesn’t Randall, Beth, Beth’s mom, Rebecca, Miguel, Deja, etc have friends? We have to assume they do, their stories are focused on other things.

Kate is actually the only one shown to have any friends at all during the series.  She had Sophie, who may or may not have been her friend because she liked Kevin.  And then she had Madison, whom Kevin also took over.

[Ohiopirate02]

18 minutes ago, izabella said:

I'm wondering where Sophie was at this time.  Wasn't she married to Kevin?  And living in Pittsburgh while Kevin went off for acting jobs?  Why wasn't she still Kate's friend at this point?  Maybe she was too busy studying to be a nurse.

 

Sophie went to NYU, Kevin followed.  He goes to LA for his acting career, but we have not seen if Sophie ever follows him.  Sophie is in New York in season 2 working as a nurse. What she got up to between 1998 and 2017 has yet to be shown.

[debraran]

They did allude or show friends for the other kids. Kevin had his athlete friends and Sophie was his main one he shared things with. Randall found friends later and wanted to follow one to Howard but Rebecca's depression derailed that and she later lauded him for it during Kevin's therapy. Kate wasn't shown with friends, she'd make one up to see her boyfriend, she had the mean girls at the pool, but not friends. I had bullies at school, but always someone to talk too. It's just odd. They lived in a pretty nice suburb. They never mentioned her grades, Kevin was so so and Randall smart, but Kate? Could she get a scholarship? Could she get in a local choir trying out? That existed back then, they'd travel etc.

I do realize it's hard to parent, I would redo many things with daughter who was depressed but just how they wrote her I thought was boring. She was whiny, sarcastic and mean to her mom at times, never seemed to bond with Randall but when was she nice?

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

They did allude or show friends for the other kids. Kevin had his athlete friends and Sophie was his main one he shared things with. Randall found friends later and wanted to follow one to Howard but Rebecca's depression derailed that and she later lauded him for it during Kevin's therapy. Kate wasn't shown with friends, she'd make one up to see her boyfriend, she had the mean girls at the pool, but not friends. I had bullies at school, but always someone to talk too. It's just odd. They lived in a pretty nice suburb. They never mentioned her grades, Kevin was so so and Randall smart, but Kate? Could she get a scholarship? Could she get in a local choir trying out? That existed back then, they'd travel etc.

I do realize it's hard to parent, I would redo many things with daughter who was depressed but just how they wrote her I thought was boring. She was whiny, sarcastic and mean to her mom at times, never seemed to bond with Randall but when was she nice?

I didn't have friends in school either.  Acquaintances that I still keep in touch with via social, but no real friends.  Kind of hard when you're the Asian girl who listened to a weird eclectic variety of music which included Broadway and (new) country.  I suppose I made some friends towards the end of high school when I got into the whole Lilith Fair artist phase (I could see Kate telling the world she wanted to be Jewel).....people in my (and thus, the Big 3) cohort wouldn't have been too open about being BSB fans.  That was for middle schoolers.

[mansonlamps]

4 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

 

As someone who is also significantly overweight, it does seem odd to me that Kate has encountered no obstacles whatsoever due to her weight.  Simple stuff like fitting in the seat on an airplane, being able to get down on the floor and play with her young kids, being able to go on hikes or to the park with her kids or her students would all be difficult for her and there is no reason not to mention it in passing, at least.

Exactly.   People in general seem to understand that gender identities and ethnicities need more representation on TV, but one group that's lacking is severely overweight people except in shows like My 600 Lb life which seems to treat them as side shows.   Here we have a beautiful woman,  married with children,  good job,  etc., that's obese,  but zero indication of some of the hardships that come with obesity are ever mentioned since the very beginning of the show.   Yet they do manage to work in Madison's anorexic tendencies,  it just seems odd.

[cameron]

14 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

Exactly.   People in general seem to understand that gender identities and ethnicities need more representation on TV, but one group that's lacking is severely overweight people except in shows like My 600 Lb life which seems to treat them as side shows.   Here we have a beautiful woman,  married with children,  good job,  etc., that's obese,  but zero indication of some of the hardships that come with obesity are ever mentioned since the very beginning of the show.   Yet they do manage to work in Madison's anorexic tendencies,  it just seems odd.

I think calling her beautiful might be a stretch and her job teaching songs to those children doesn't take a rocket scientist.  And they did bring up the fact in one of those shows that she couldn't fit into a booth in a restaurant.  

[Ohiopirate02]

15 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

Exactly.   People in general seem to understand that gender identities and ethnicities need more representation on TV, but one group that's lacking is severely overweight people except in shows like My 600 Lb life which seems to treat them as side shows.   Here we have a beautiful woman,  married with children,  good job,  etc., that's obese,  but zero indication of some of the hardships that come with obesity are ever mentioned since the very beginning of the show.   Yet they do manage to work in Madison's anorexic tendencies,  it just seems odd.

Again, the show has handled some of the issues Kate faces as a person of size throughout the show.  You want to see Kate visibly struggle more, but what narrative purpose does that serve?  And does that purpose outweigh this show or any other TV show forcing their actors into humiliating scenes?  

[PRgal]

35 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Again, the show has handled some of the issues Kate faces as a person of size throughout the show.  You want to see Kate visibly struggle more, but what narrative purpose does that serve?  And does that purpose outweigh this show or any other TV show forcing their actors into humiliating scenes?  

I don’t understand.  What’s the difference between that and having scenes dealing with racism and having Sterling K. Brown (or the actors playing kid/teen Randall) go through hearing racial slurs, for example? 

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I don’t understand.  What’s the difference between that and having scenes dealing with racism and having Sterling K. Brown (or the actors playing kid/teen Randall) go through hearing racial slurs, for example? 

The show already had an issue with this.  Lonnie the actor who used to play Young Randall was on set while the shoe was filming scenes with Elizabeth Perkins as Rebecca's mom and he heard the racist dialogue being used.  The show did apologize after it was brought to their attention that maybe young actors should not be on set for scenes like this.  I believe thus came out after Chrissy did an interview where she talked about having chats with Mackenzie about the material she had to film as Young Kate.  Christy wanted to make sure Mackenzie was not internalizing the material.   No one gave Lonnie the same consideration and he spoke out about it.

[mansonlamps]

1 hour ago, cameron said:

I think calling her beautiful might be a stretch and her job teaching songs to those children doesn't take a rocket scientist.  And they did bring up the fact in one of those shows that she couldn't fit into a booth in a restaurant.  

YMMV on her looks and I didn't say she was a rocket scientist.

[CrystalBlue]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I do not think it's a stretch to call Chrissy Metz a beautiful woman; she has a very pretty face and awesome eyes (and good hair).

I don't think viewers want to watch a network TV show where a black person or people are continuiously called racial slurs or overweight people are called fat (and therefore ugly to some).  Perhaps that's why they don't include it in the storylines every episode.

[chocolatine]

My problem with the writing for Kate is not so much that we don't see more details about her weight, but that she's so one-note compared to the other characters. We see no humor, wit, or quirks, no passions other than music (and even that is not very convincing), no genuine curiosity or care about other people. We see is a perpetual victim - my dad died, my mom tried to get me to lose weight, my boyfriend was abusive, my child has a disability, my husband took a job in another city - who is mean and/or indifferent to most of the people in her life, and still, for some inexplicable reason, they love and support her no matter what.

[MissLucas]

49 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

We see no humor, wit, or quirks, no passions other than music (and even that is not very convincing), no genuine curiosity or care about other people. 

This!!! One of the few times the writers broke that exhausting mould was when they introduced Gregory (Timothy Omundsen) and I really miss him! He brought so much to Kate's story. Due to the discussion of the Pearsons having friends I did a mental tally and I think he's the only friend who has not ended up as a love interest.