Figure Skating

[Lady Whistleup]

Just now, Minneapple said:

Well, I didn't necessarily mean that the US would automatically start winning if stuff is cleaned up. Definitely the Korean and Japanese skaters would benefit first. The point is that nobody should throw their hands up and say, well the Russians are cheaters but our girls look happy and well-fed out there! It's a sport so the goal should be to win.

It's ironic that Gracie is saying this because she is someone who suffered from a severe eating disorder through most of her competitive career. And Frank Carroll definitely did not help the situation at all.

She's not the poster child for American girls = happy and healthy.

[scarynikki12]

This ROC dude is wearing what looks like a Boy Scout neckerchief. Is the theme that he's the scout leader taking her on a hike?

[Cherpumple]

Jimmy Roberts interviewed Alysa Liu today (or yesterday?) and asked her what's next for her and if she's going to go for the quad jumps, since that's the way figure skating is heading. She very happily said "no" because of the injury risk, and you could tell he was a little taken aback. I'm not sure if she plans on retiring after this season (I kind of get that feeling), but it was amusing to hear her be so disinterested in furthering the quad narrative.

[choclatechip45]

6 minutes ago, Cherpumple said:

Jimmy Roberts interviewed Alysa Liu today (or yesterday?) and asked her what's next for her and if she's going to go for the quad jumps, since that's the way figure skating is heading. She very happily said "no" because of the injury risk, and you could tell he was a little taken aback. I'm not sure if she plans on retiring after this season (I kind of get that feeling), but it was amusing to hear her be so disinterested in furthering the quad narrative.

I think she has said she wants to focus on college after this year. She also didn't seem to enjoy skating this season until the Olympics so I don't know if this experience will change her mind or not. 

I think the issue with Gracie's article is that there are ways American Ladies figure skating can do better without being abusive. I do think being realistic about chances is important. Like Alysa wasn't going to medal so I'm glad she had two skates she can be proud of and enjoy that then deal with stupid unreasonable pressure. It was pretty ridiculous when a Today show article tried to compare Alysa to Simone Biles even Alysa was like I've never heard that one before. 

[Minneapple]

Right, I would never want the Americans to resort to abuse or drugs to win medals. That's not the point. I will say it's exasperating that the American women can't do well, but what are you going to do? At least our athletes do well in other disciplines. And to put a positive spin on it, the American women helped win a silver in the team event, so good for them.

I SEE ETERI. You guys, I saw someone on social media suggest Lena Headey for the movie or miniseries and it's PERFECT CASTING.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Minneapple

[stealinghome]

I’m really enjoying the pairs skating tonight. At least in the couples that NBC has shown, the overall level of artistry feels like it’s higher than it was in either of the singles disciplines, I’ve really enjoyed everyone’s choreography, and I also appreciate that there are a bunch of distinct music styles being featured—in the other disciplines, it’s like everyone was skating to basically the same (style of) music. Getting variety is really nice.

[Moxie Cat]

2 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

Trusova, and Shcherbakova are a year older and look like boyish twigs in comparison. They don't look naturally slender and lithe. They look starved.

I would only disagree with you on one point: Trusova's arms are extremely muscular. Wow! It was very apparent on the podium next to Anna, whose arms are very slim. I would guess Trusova is an athlete, first and foremost, and focused her program around that. Whether she did that on her own or with the blessing of Eteri is a whole separate issue. But apparently she thought could win based on sheer athleticism, and dance/performance ability be damned. I feel sorry for her, because someone obviously let her down about the sport.

I was surprised with Alysa - I hadn't seen her Nationals short and was surprised at how much she had grown! She is a beautiful and talented young woman. But like Sakamoto and most of the women, she has hips. And so...

My personal feeling about the age vs. quads issue is that if women need to be stunted physically in order to do quads, then there is something abusive about the skill. It bothers me that the only women in the world who can do them (currently) are malnourished teenagers for whom puberty has apparently been delayed. I would like to see healthy Japanese, American, and Canadian - and wherever else - women skaters performing quads successfully. I do remember the men's 2014 splatfest and how discouraging it was; certainly, men's quads have come a LONG way since then, so the skill level of a sport as a whole CAN change. But whether a skill can be performed successfully cannot rely solely on delaying puberty.

[Harry24]

Quote

I saw someone on social media suggest Lena Headey for the movie or miniseries and it's PERFECT CASTING.

It would be nice for the actress to play someone really evil for a change. :-)

Edited February 19, 2022 by Harry24

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, ShellsandCheese said:

While I can appreciate Gracie’s perspective, I mostly disagree with her conclusion. The American ladies are not only behind the Russians but the Japanese and Koreans too. So there’s more to American ladies problems than just, well Russians are abusive and we don’t want to do that so we will never win again. Like there’s a spectrum. For starters US Figure Skating needs to figure out a way to eliminate cost barriers and other barriers to the sport - gasp, maybe try to see what things are being done elsewhere and see what can be learned. 

Agreed. Take the Russians out of the equation and American ladies are still in a position where they aren't likely to medal at the big events. There's been a noticeable decline in ladies figure skating and it isn't about US ladies not having quads and triple axels. 

Several of our top US ladies have difficulty fully rotating their individual jumps on a regular basis. They also can't be relied upon to do triple/triple combinations. Skaters like Debi Thomas, Kristi Yamaguchi, Nancy Kerrigan and Michelle Kwan could regularly do these things back in the 80s and 90s. 

Mariah had to take out her triple/triple combo because she couldn't count on landing it. Alysa and Karen both struggle with underrotations. Amber can't put two clean programs together. Gracie is going to Gracie. Starr hasn't had a good season in years. Isabeau is one of the few bright spots in terms of the rising US ladies.

[Daisy]

This is so sad. Canada won't win a medal for the first time since 1980. and I really don't think our future looks bright :(  

[NUguy514]

16 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

American women have been struggling since Sasha Cohen and since before the Russians started winning - and the Russians aren’t nearly as dominant  as people think. They’ve won the last three OGM, which has happened over a span of 8 years; since 2014 when Adelina won Olympic gold Russian women have won five world championships and two of these were Medvedeva.

Prior to Tuk winning at World’s in 2015, they hadn’t won at Worlds since 2005. I find it frustrating that now folks want to blame the Russians for the American womens overall poor performance in international competition since 2006 (last American world champion Kimmie Meissner). Because the facts and American skaters placements don’t support that and it gives US Figure Skating an out. Instead of trying to figure out what can be done to improve - folks now just want to throw their hands up and be like wah wah wah we can’t win because the Russians are cheaters.

That's misleading about the recent Russian dominance.  Russians have won five of the last six world championships, the last eight European championships, and the last three Olympic gold medals.  I don't know how one downplays that unless it's to point out that all of these wins were aided by PEDs (and terrible judging) and should therefore be vacated.  Which would be completely valid.

I really don't like dismissing the justifiable anger over doping in this sport as just Americans being sore losers, nor do I think that's what's happening here since I don't really see anyone blaming the Russians for the Americans' performances (and I didn't personally think Gracie was doing that in her article).  What I see here is people wanting doping athletes and abusive coaches to be banned from competition, clean skaters with beautiful technique to be duly rewarded (no matter what country they're from) by actually competent and non-biased judges, and immediate changes that will end the abuse these girls are suffering.  In all of those categories, Russia fails.

Edited February 19, 2022 by NUguy514

[Enero]

3 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

There's been a noticeable decline in ladies figure skating and it isn't about US ladies not having quads and triple axels. 

Several of our top US ladies have difficulty fully rotating their individual jumps on a regular basis. They also can't be relied upon to do triple/triple combinations. Skaters like Debi Thomas, Kristi Yamaguchi, Nancy Kerrigan and Michelle Kwan could regularly do these things back in the 80s and 90s. 

Mariah had to take out her triple/triple combo because she couldn't count on landing it. Alysa and Karen both struggle with underrotations

To be fair, neither Debi, Kristi,  Nancy nor Michelle did 3/3s for more than one season. The former 3 only added a 3/3 in their Olympic year. I don’t think Nancy had a 3/3 in 1992, but I believe she had one in 94. Kwan never completed a 3/3 in an Olympic event and dropped her 3/3 early in her career. And the only one who was consistent nearly 100% of the time was Michelle. Skating was different back then as a lot of these ladies rivals were very talented but had their own issues with consistency and artistry, which at times, helped some to land on or at the top of the podium.

Now we’re on a points system where big jumps (ie quads, 3axels) gets big numbers, sometimes whether you fall on your ass or not. And numbers and politics are the name of the game.

I do wonder if the issue is the lack of strong coaches though for many of the U.S. ladies. All of the famous coaches who consistently coached successful female skaters back in the 90s and much of the early 2000s have retired. Moreover, the U.S. field has lacked phenomenal talent for a while. Even in the junior ranks, from what I can see, there’s no one in the pipeline who could be the next Cohen, Kwan or Lipinski. Why is this? After having a medal contender or more, since the 40s, in International events, has the well run dry for U.S. ladies? And if so, is this not only due to the lack of good coaches but the lack of funding? As we all know, Russia’s skating program is state funded, and I believe both Japan and Korea sink quite a bit of funds into their programs too, if they’re not fully funded all together. 

There could be many incredibly talented skaters out there, but they have to give up the sport before they can cultivate that talent due to lack of funding. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Enero

[Avaleigh]

21 minutes ago, Enero said:

To be fair, neither Debi, Kristi,  Nancy nor Michelle did 3/3s for more than one season. The former 3 only added a 3/3 in their Olympic year. I don’t think Nancy had a 3/3 in 1992, but I believe she had one in 94. Kwan never completed a 3/3 in an Olympic event and dropped her 3/3 early in her career. And the only one who was consistent nearly 100% of the time was Michelle. Skating was different back then as a lot of these ladies rivals were very talented but had their own issues with consistency and artistry, which at times, helped some to land on or at the top of the podium.

Now we’re on a points system where big jumps (ie quads, 3axels) gets big numbers, sometimes whether you fall on your ass or not. And numbers and politics are the name of the game.

I do wonder if the issue is the lack of strong coaches though for many of the U.S. ladies. All of the famous coaches who consistently coached successful female skaters back in the 90s and much of the early 2000s have retired. Moreover, the U.S. field has lacked phenomenal talent for a while. Even in the junior ranks, from what I can see, there’s no one in the pipeline who could be the next Cohen, Kwan or Lipinski. Why is this? After having a medal contender or more, since the 40s, in International events, has the well run dry for U.S. ladies? And if so, is this not only due to the lack of good coaches but the lack of funding? As we all know, Russia’s skating program is state funded, and I believe both Japan and Korea sink quite a bit of funds into their programs too, if they’re not fully funded all together. 

There could be many incredibly talented skaters out there, but they have to give up the sport before they can cultivate that talent due to lack of funding. 

Nancy and Kristi both successfully did theirs at the Olympics so it was memorable. Debi did her 3/3 for more than one season.

Michelle too attempted hers in more than one season. 2001 was when her 3/3 was at its best in Song of the Black Swan.

My point was that you'd think there'd be more consistency with a 3/3 now but the consistency seems to almost be worse all these years later.

Funding is definitely one of the problems. I brought this up in the figure skating thread. USFS will give funding to skaters but only on the elite level. It costs a lot of money to make it far enough to even get the attention of USFS so parents need to be willing to shell out big bucks so that their kid can have ice time, coaching, pay competition fees, traveling, off ice training, etc. This is also part of the reason why this sport doesn't see as many black and latino skaters. 

The lack of stars hasn't helped in terms of getting young kids into the sport. Yuna Kim inspired a whole generation of skaters in South Korea and now they're starting to have a deep pool of talent that's surpassing what the US ladies currently have. Japan had Shizuka, Miki, Mao and now Kaori.

With coaching, we'll have to wait and see. It seems like there are some retired skaters who could potentially be good replacements for the coaches who've retired.

[Lady Whistleup]

Anyone watching the pairs free skate?

[Good Queen Jane]

I am. K/F were lights out. So different from their team free. So happy for them!

[Snow Apple]

2 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Anyone watching the pairs free skate?

Me. I was kind of bored until the second US team skated (Alexa and Brandon). To my untrained eye, they were fast, artistic, and skated to the music. 

[Lady Whistleup]

It's so good to see Hongbo Zhao in the K&C.

[Good Queen Jane]

The Chinese crowd is really into it. It’s kind of nice to hear loud cheering. 

[Jeddah]

Everyone seems to see something in Knierim/Frazier that I just don’t see. They have a great twist. The rest is just meh to me. I would have had them behind Miura/Kihara.

[galaxygirl76]

So it's skating while Russian vs skating while from equally corrupt home country 😉

That said, I love me some pairs skating and this has been a nice palate cleanser. 

 

[Lady Whistleup]

Really enjoying this entire final group. The podium will be very close.

[Tippi]

I loved the Japanese pair!   I couldn't believe the lift with his knee position variations.

[Hana Chan]

I've been thinking about why the talent pools for US figure skating seems so shallow and why we don't see such a huge number of top international prospects coming down the pike. It's not like the US is devoid of talent or good coaches. We know that despite efforts from the US fed that there are just not so many young kids entering the sport and sticking with it. Not like we see we artistic gymnastics. There are lots of factors, such as the once-every-four years attention span of the US audience, the cost of training and equipment, coaching and little financial help during their competitive careers.

I think that part of the problem is that unlike other countries, there doesn't seem to be a career path for athletes once their competitive days are over. It's just not as financially lucrative and when you consider the immense expense it takes to get a skater to the elite levels. Unless you build a reputation like Michele Kwan, Sasha Cohen or Nathen Chen, there's just not a whole lot of you afterwards. There's no going on to skate in college (like gymnasts can). And the window for taking advantage of endorsements is pretty narrow with basketball, football and baseball players getting the lions share of financial rewards. 

Compare that to Japan and Russia where favorite skaters can go on to do ice shows that are extremely popular and lucrative. The Fantasy on Ice show that Yuzuru leads is so popular that he's got skaters from all over the world joining in (including Plushenko and Johnny Weir). Yuzuru has numerous endorsement deals in Japan, doing everything from skin care to chocolate. Because the sport is so popular in Japan, Korea and Russia, top skaters can remain relevant and financially rewarded long after US skaters are taking day jobs.

Perhaps Nathan's gold medal can start changing things if he's able to capitalize on his success. Perhaps do a tour where he gathers the top US skaters and starts to inspire a new generation. Or he takes a role like Javier Fernandez does and works actively to build a strong national program. Success builds on success and young people are more likely to stick with a sport if they see that there is a future for the sport and those who participate in it.

[Lady Whistleup]

Ugh this pairs competition is so close. So many good teams.

Congrats Sui/Han. Well deserved although they actually aren't my favorite. Their throw technique drives me nuts.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Lady Whistleup

[Jeddah]

Yes! I am so happy for Sui and Han!!!

[galaxygirl76]

They lost the gold by half a point four years ago and now they win the gold be a little over half a point. Good for them! 

[Lady Whistleup]

Aww I actually liked Tarasova/Morozov the most ...

[Conotocarious]

12 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

I've been thinking about why the talent pools for US figure skating seems so shallow and why we don't see such a huge number of top international prospects coming down the pike. It's not like the US is devoid of talent or good coaches. We know that despite efforts from the US fed that there are just not so many young kids entering the sport and sticking with it. Not like we see we artistic gymnastics. There are lots of factors, such as the once-every-four years attention span of the US audience, the cost of training and equipment, coaching and little financial help during their competitive careers.

I think that part of the problem is that unlike other countries, there doesn't seem to be a career path for athletes once their competitive days are over. It's just not as financially lucrative and when you consider the immense expense it takes to get a skater to the elite levels. Unless you build a reputation like Michele Kwan, Sasha Cohen or Nathen Chen, there's just not a whole lot of you afterwards. There's no going on to skate in college (like gymnasts can). And the window for taking advantage of endorsements is pretty narrow with basketball, football and baseball players getting the lions share of financial rewards. 

Compare that to Japan and Russia where favorite skaters can go on to do ice shows that are extremely popular and lucrative. The Fantasy on Ice show that Yuzuru leads is so popular that he's got skaters from all over the world joining in (including Plushenko and Johnny Weir). Yuzuru has numerous endorsement deals in Japan, doing everything from skin care to chocolate. Because the sport is so popular in Japan, Korea and Russia, top skaters can remain relevant and financially rewarded long after US skaters are taking day jobs.

Perhaps Nathan's gold medal can start changing things if he's able to capitalize on his success. Perhaps do a tour where he gathers the top US skaters and starts to inspire a new generation. Or he takes a role like Javier Fernandez does and works actively to build a strong national program. Success builds on success and young people are more likely to stick with a sport if they see that there is a future for the sport and those who participate in it.

Back when the US ladies were dominant they did have so many of those tours and opportunities. Figure skating was such a big deal that in 1992 there was a tribute to skaters in the Super Bowl halftime show. And of course, with those opportunities come a lot of young kids eager to skate.

I don’t know when skating changed. Was it the change in scoring? The less interesting personalities? Some combination? 

[Jeddah]

6 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

They lost the gold by half a point four years ago and now they win the gold be a little over half a point. Good for them! 

Before the Olympics the Skating Lesson talked about how three disciplines had skaters looking for redemption (Nathan, P/C, S/H). I’m happy that they all came back and won gold!

[absnow54]

48 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

Perhaps Nathan's gold medal can start changing things if he's able to capitalize on his success. Perhaps do a tour where he gathers the top US skaters and starts to inspire a new generation. Or he takes a role like Javier Fernandez does and works actively to build a strong national program. Success builds on success and young people are more likely to stick with a sport if they see that there is a future for the sport and those who participate in it.

I think they still do theses skating tours. They’re just not popular anymore, and while Nathan is a phenomenal skater, he just doesn’t have the personality to create the same excitement as Yuzuru Hanyu. And even when there were big personalities in Men’s skating, the sport was still on the decline with popularity. Americans want an ice princess to root for, which is why I think skating hasn’t really recovered since Sasha Cohen and Gracie Gold missed the podium, even though we continue to have decent success in both Men’s and Ice Dancing. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by absnow54

[Ohiopirate02]

Another thing that has contributed to the dearth of American female stakes, the rise of other opportunities for American girls in other sports.   American girls have and have had more options in what sport the pick up since the 90s.  Sports that are cheaper than skating, and let's face it, more fun.  There's snowboarding, skateboarding, basketball and soccer where you can actually make money doing it. 

[healthnut]

1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

Everyone seems to see something in Knierim/Frazier that I just don’t see. They have a great twist. The rest is just meh to me. I would have had them behind Miura/Kihara.

M/K did beat K/F in the free skate but they stayed ahead due to the point gap from the short program. I really like Alexa & Brandon but I imagine Alexa will retire after this season.

The US athletes have petitioned to CAS to get their silver medals, I hope they win, they deserve to have a medal ceremony. 

[Rootbeer]

4 minutes ago, healthnut said:

M/K did beat K/F in the free skate but they stayed ahead due to the point gap from the short program. I really like Alexa & Brandon but I imagine Alexa will retire after this season.

The US athletes have petitioned to CAS to get their silver medals, I hope they win, they deserve to have a medal ceremony. 

If nothing else, Kamila is back in Russia, so we won't have to see her on the podium if the ceremony takes place.  Of course, if the authorities do the right thing and strip the Russian medals, good luck trying to get them back.

The pairs was such a pleasant refresher over the misery of the ladies'.  Beautiful, well-rounded performances from skaters who love what they're doing.  Once again, even the lower ranked teams brought it to the ice.  K/F have been a pleasure to watch all Olympics.  Every single one of the medal winning teams was outstanding in their own way.  As a longtime fan, I was sentimental about Sui/Han but enjoyed the Russians very much, too.  Nice to see some Russian skaters appreciate all aspects of their sport including the finer points of technique and artistry.

US skating needs a dominant female champion ala Michelle Kwan to step up and at least challenge for the top before the sport will become more popular here.  There've been a lot of surveys and Americans are most interested in the Ladies, Nathan Chen is great, but he isn't going to inspire little boys to want to go out and become figure skaters.  We can talk about the social implications of that, but it is what it is.  A charismatic, well-spoken young woman who can inspire kids, especially girls, to skate is needed.  Michelle Kwan pretty much decided to dedicate herself to other pursuits rather than seeking longevity as a pro skater and it left a gap that hasn't been filled.  I'm happy for her, she's an accomplished, well rounded woman who's worked hard to find her life, but her absence from the US skating scene has been felt.  That none of the women after her didn't live up to their initial promise didn't help either.

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Ugh this pairs competition is so close. So many good teams.

Congrats Sui/Han. Well deserved although they actually aren't my favorite. Their throw technique drives me nuts.

I can't stand it when the male's leg flies up as he's throwing his partner. It seems to be mostly the Chinese men who do this. But I sure am glad S/H won the gold.

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, galaxygirl76 said:

They lost the gold by half a point four years ago and now they win the gold be a little over half a point. Good for them! 

Congrats to them!  It was a tough battle in the 2018 Olympics, but I thought that Savchenko & Massot had one of the most beautiful performances I've ever seen from pairs skating.  The height she achieved when he threw her in the air was amazing!! I still go back and watch that skate from time to time.  Not to take anything away from Sui & Han.  They were amazing this time too!  As Tara said after their short program, they were fierce!   

ETA:  I think that actress Elizabeth Mitchell looks like the Russian coach. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by ChitChat

[jrzy]

17 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

It's not like they haven't been using this song all season for their program. The only reason that I can think of them suing while the Olympics are going on is publicity. And if K/F already had the rights to use the song for their programs, this lawsuit will be tossed pretty quickly.

Didn't the Animals sing that song first, and better? 

 

[galaxygirl76]

5 minutes ago, jrzy said:

Didn't the Animals sing that song first, and better? 

 

I used my Google-fu and apparently that song dates back to at least the 1920's and was first recorded in the 1930, no one seems to be sure who wrote it. Many people have recorded it. I'm not sure why they think they can sue based on this but IANAL.

Edited February 19, 2022 by galaxygirl76

[legaleagle53]

9 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

ETA:  I think that actress Elizabeth Mitchell looks like the Russian coach. 

She totally does, and she can play the stone-cold bitch villain, too!

But back to the pairs Free Skate. How did the American teams do? I know we weren't expected to medal, but it sounds to me as though we managed some very respectable top-ten finishes, particularly K/F. And that makes me very happy indeed, if true!

[healthnut]

Coldplay should release a statement thanking Alexa & Brandon for skating to their music just to troll the Heathen folks.  

[absnow54]

2 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

But back to the pairs Free Skate. How did the American teams do? I know we weren't expected to medal, but it sounds to me as though we managed some very respectable top-ten finishes, particularly K/F. And that makes me very happy indeed, if true!

K/F came in 6 and C-G/D came in 8. I don’t think we’ve done this well in pairs in 20 years. 

[Hana Chan]

1 hour ago, Conotocarious said:

I don’t know when skating changed. Was it the change in scoring? The less interesting personalities? Some combination? 

I think that the scoring does have something to do with it. With the 6.0 system, scoring was easy to understand for the casual viewer who tunes in once every four years. Trying to educate them about how the new system works so that all these random numbers and reasons for them. And for those who don't tune in for the various competitions in the years between the Olympics, they don't get any kind of attachment to the skaters. Many viewers will only know of Nathan from his splat-fest in Pyeongchang and his win in Bejing. 

Personality does have a lot to do with it. Yuzuru is a total rock star in Japan in a way that no other figure skater has achieved and everything that I've seen of him is that he is genuinely a sweet, kind of shy person off the ice. That kind of personality makes him very appealing to an international audience. Nathan is a lot more brash and outspoken, which can be a turn off to some (especially the Asian audience, which doesn't tend to appreciate a distinctly American disposition). 

29 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

US skating needs a dominant female champion ala Michelle Kwan to step up and at least challenge for the top before the sport will become more popular here. 

We need some girls to stay in the sport and be publicized, not torn down because they can't compete with the current crop of Russian pre-teens. When Mariah Bell won Nationals and gets called "ancient" in the US media, all that tells the audience is that she's past her prime and can't stand up to the Russians. The Russian media is currently holding up Valieva as a "hero" despite all the controversy swirling around her and the mess that her FS was, while we're going on about why we can't get an American woman on the podium. How profiles are framed is really important. Nathan Chen benefited after Pyeongchang by being referred to as the "Quad King" even after his failure. Highlighting the positive attributes of the US women skaters (artistry, strength, charm, etc) instead of their faults will certainly help with marketing the sport.

[absnow54]

18 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

It's not like they haven't been using this song all season for their program. The only reason that I can think of them suing while the Olympics are going on is publicity. And if K/F already had the rights to use the song for their programs, this lawsuit will be tossed pretty quickly.

They’ll also get to claim a lot more for deprived royalties, because there were a lot more views for Olympic footage than Grand Prix footage that was aired earlier this season. 

[Hana Chan]

As if I needed to fall even deeper into the figure skating rabbit hole than I already have, this is a really excellent analysis of the pre-rotation that we see in the quads of Valieva (and also Nathan Chen to a slightly lesser degree). 

He's definitely calling out the judging as being the major problem, because if bad technique and pre-rotation is not penalized, then skaters will keep doing it. 

[Chit Chat]

One of the problems I've seen with some of the U.S. ladies is the inconsistency in their performances (not just at the Olympics).  I don't watch a lot of the competitions, but when I do, it seems like year after year that several of them can't skate a near perfect skate, which is what it's going to take in order to compete.   That's just from my amateur observation!  

[Snow Apple]

22 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

I used my Google-fu and apparently that song dates back to at least the 1920's and was first recorded in the 1930, no one seems to be sure who wrote it. Many people have recorded it. I'm not sure why they think they can sue based on this but IANAL.

I think they are suing because it's their version and not for the general song? I'm no lawyer though.

[Conotocarious]

10 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

As if I needed to fall even deeper into the figure skating rabbit hole than I already have, this is a really excellent analysis of the pre-rotation that we see in the quads of Valieva (and also Nathan Chen to a slightly lesser degree). 

He's definitely calling out the judging as being the major problem, because if bad technique and pre-rotation is not penalized, then skaters will keep doing it. 

Holy crap, THANKS FOR THIS. It is SO clear here and it also explains why I didn’t really understand how Valieva was doing a quad because to my eye it only looked like a triple in the air. I was so confused, Her triple axel didn’t look much like one either.

[Jeddah]

25 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

I used my Google-fu and apparently that song dates back to at least the 1920's and was first recorded in the 1930, no one seems to be sure who wrote it. Many people have recorded it. I'm not sure why they think they can sue based on this but IANAL.

K/F are idiots if they didn’t get clearance, and NBC should know better than to broadcast a song without clearance. The song and lyrics may be in the public domain, but specific recordings of it are not. Those belong to the performers (or their labels). I imagine that’s why some skaters use crappy cover songs.

It’s very possible the band didn’t know their song was being used until now. They probably weren’t following K/F in the Grand Prix series, and K/F weren’t at Nationals.

[Hana Chan]

10 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

Holy crap, THANKS FOR THIS. It is SO clear here and it also explains why I didn’t really understand how Valieva was doing a quad because to my eye it only looked like a triple in the air. I was so confused, Her triple axel didn’t look much like one either.

What I appreciate was that he wasn't tearing down Valieva because she is a tremendous athlete and he's putting the blame where it belongs. If judges would grade jumps with extreme pre-rotation correctly, than maybe these girls would be taught proper technique.

What I was amazed by was just how little pre-rotation Yuzuru has. Even with his complex entries into his jumps, he really doesn't start to rotate until his blade is off the ice.

[healthnut]

7 hours ago, Enero said:

To be fair, neither Debi, Kristi,  Nancy nor Michelle did 3/3s for more than one season. The former 3 only added a 3/3 in their Olympic year. I don’t think Nancy had a 3/3 in 1992, but I believe she had one in 94. Kwan never completed a 3/3 in an Olympic event and dropped her 3/3 early in her career. And the only one who was consistent nearly 100% of the time was Michelle.

Michelle definitely did her 3/3 at 2004 Nationals, I can't remember if she did at Worlds but she definitely did 3/3 from 1995-96 season although she missed it at Worlds and threw in a triple toe at the end, so that's 1995 to at least 2004. It wasn't always successful of course.

ETA: CAS ruled. THE CAS AD HOC DIVISION DISMISSES AN APPLICATION FILED BY NINE INDIVIDUAL SKATERS FROM THE UNITED STATES SEEKING A RULING THAT THE IOC BE ORDERED TO HOLD A MEDAL CEREMONY FOR THE FIGURE SKATING TEAM EVENT

Sad. I hate CAS.

Edited February 19, 2022 by healthnut

[MaryMitch]

NPR Morning Edition did an interview with Polina Edmunds this morning. Her opinion is that they need to clean up the scoring to have more value (ie, honesty) to the artistic marks.  She says she was 15 and had the most technical program in 2014 and still placed ninth because they correctly graded artistry.

it's about 5 minutes:

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/19/1081948828/olympic-figure-skating-faces-a-series-of-controversies-what-is-its-future