Figure Skating

[chitowngirl]

Unfortunately, this will most likely bring more eyes to NBC and the Ladies skate. Scandal always does.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by chitowngirl

[galaxygirl76]

On a different topic, I learned that Guillome is the first openly gay figure skater to win gold. 

[Minneapple]

The queen on Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZ9CsSFJPpX/?utm_medium=copy_link

[Crs97]

7 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Unfortunately, this will most likely bring more eyes to NBC and the Ladies skate. Scandal always does.

And then ruins the sport

As much as I want the other women to refuse to skate, I can’t be comfortable with their having to give up the dream of having their moment.  I am sure some of the judges would like to refuse to judge Kamila, but they will be too professional to shirk their job.  It pisses me off that the Russians’ cheating plan requires cowardice from the leaders and professionalism from the underlings, and they know they’ll get both in spades.

[Jess14]

4 hours ago, absnow54 said:

I don’t understand how not letting her compete would be irreparably damaging, but okay. Thrust her into a competition that nobody wants her in, face the media of people ready to tear her apart, and then in 6 months when the investigation is over, have it all taken away anyway. This is all very cruel. Russia would have given her a fake medal no matter what. She skated her clean programs during the team event, wouldn’t they want to go out on that high note? 

I take it that they’re saying that the irreparable harm would be that she could have some legitimate excuse (contamination, etc) for the positive test and not allowing her to compete would strip her of the opportunity to make that case and win the gold forever. Whereas if she competes, but they later disqualify her, the medals can be re-apportioned to the right competitors. The problem is, as you mentioned, this does irreparable harm to the sport and the other skaters. 

The vast majority of people won’t be following this story in 6 weeks. All they will know is that the sport basically said there are no real consequences for doping minors and that Russian cheating goes unpunished. Who wants to follow a sport or enroll their kids in it when we know that a skater competing in the top competition tested positive for a banned substance less than 2 months ago? And it’s banned in and out of competition, so the excuse that her tests in Beijing have been clean is irrelevant..  I’m just disgusted with this ruling. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Jess14
Typo

[jenh526]

I’m a bit confused about the drug testing procedures. The test was done in December before Russian Nationals, right? Skaters can still compete if they haven’t gotten test results back yet? Seems like that should’ve been prevented.

[Jillibean]

8 hours ago, Souris said:

Is it just me or was Nathan Chen’s applause for H/D a lot less heartfelt than for C/B? Same, Nathan, same.

I think Evan is friends with and respected by many of these skaters in a way Zachary isn't. Evan hangs out with people playing guitar, and my sense is that he's considered something of a mentor and a leader on Team USA as a veteran who is also clearly A Good Guy. And Zach is Zach. 

I'm disappointed by the decision, but I was prepared for it. What confuses me is it seems like basically the decision is "we need to do an investigation to see if there might have been a legitimate reason she took it" and--wasn't that was yesterday was for? No? Either she did or she didn't, and if she did I don't see why that case wasn't laid out during this hearing. It's not like it should take them days or weeks to prepare a reason, because that's not how this works. Or it shouldn't be. 

[Hana Chan]

The thing is that I feel genuinely sorry for Kamila (and Alexandra and Anna) because they are genuinely not at fault for this. They had their dreams of winning the biggest prizes in their sport and went with the coach that everyone says will help them get there. They didn't know about the abusive treatment and doping and being forced to compete with injuries before they signed on. They just wanted to win at the Olympics.

And no matter what happens, there will be a cloud over their heads. Kamila is known now to have a doping violation and it's hardly a leap to assume that Alexandra and Anna followed the same regimen ordered by Eteri and her team of compliant quacks. It's win at all costs, regardless to the physical and emotional damage done to these young girls. But hey... Russia will get to claim their dominance in the sport and get some pretty heroines to trot out before they get tossed to the trash heap in favor of the next group of talented children.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Hana Chan

[healthnut]

1 hour ago, absnow54 said:

They’re apparently running the competition as if she were already DQ’d, and are letting the skater in 25th place advance to the FS. No medal ceremony either, and the team medal will remain in jeopardy too.

 Officially, no team medal ceremony at all. If Valieva is on the podium, no medial ceremony for the ladies event either. So heartbreaking for the US and Japanese teams who earned their medals and won’t get their moment and the Canadians who would likely move up. 

Swedish lab is testing sample B. Russia can’t because they lost their accreditation. 

[Rootbeer]

12 minutes ago, jenh526 said:

I’m a bit confused about the drug testing procedures. The test was done in December before Russian Nationals, right? Skaters can still compete if they haven’t gotten test results back yet? Seems like that should’ve been prevented.

All Olympic level athletes are tested regularly during the season.  The test that was positive for Kamila was taken at the Russian skating championships in December, probably after she won.  The sample was sent to a lab in Sweden for processing and, supposedly, due to COVID, the lab fell behind in running the specimens and didn't get to this one until last week.  It sounds fishy as hell.  I work in health care, I know that labs have been overworked, but, one would presume that there is some sort of queue for resulting and that the specimen of the Russian athlete who won the competition should've been processed more quickly than that.

That was a big part of how Russia tried to justify it, Kamila was already in Beijing competing when the result was released, she didn't have any time to put together a defense and therefore was robbed of her right to due process.  Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually discover some sort of Russian chicanery that resulted in the delay.

As far as Kamila's defense, the Russians are never going to admit she took anything.  Actually, most athletes won't.  They are going to claim that someone tampered with her sample, that some nefarious actor stole into the lab and switched her specimen. That she is a victim of the world's hatred of Russian athletic superiority.  Carrying a chip on the shoulder is a Russian sport, too, the feeling that they are being singled out for persecution runs deep.  And then, somehow, the lab will have to prove it didn't happen.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Hana Chan]

2 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

What confuses me is it seems like basically the decision is "we need to do an investigation to see if there might have been a legitimate reason she took it"

Some Russian posts in social media are pointing at the ADD medications that Simone Biles took, routinely accusing her of doping and using that as a justification for excusing this. The differences are that 1) Simone's medication was for a specific, appropriately diagnosed medical condition, 2) her treatment was cleared with WADA and 3) she was one of the most tested athletes around to ensure that she wasn't using her medication at a dose that went beyond what she was medically cleared for.

If Kamila had a medical condition that required trimetazidine for its management, then it should have been cleared prior to her entering competition. It wasn't. It also is odd that her sample was not prioritized for testing as the top skater for her country. The Russians got caught doping and now are going to be laughing at the rest of the world because nothing is being done to punish them.

[healthnut]

GMAB. 

 

[Hana Chan]

3 minutes ago, healthnut said:

GMAB. 

 

Yeah, and my ex-boyfriend caught an STD off a toilet seat. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Really crappy decision. Kamila's just a kid. But this decision emboldens her coaches, trainers, and doctors to keep doping skaters.

[galaxygirl76]

18 minutes ago, healthnut said:

GMAB. 

 

So it shed on her like the anti vaxxers claim vaccines do? 

Drinking from the same glass, are you fucking kidding me. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by galaxygirl76

[absnow54]

32 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

All Olympic level athletes are tested regularly during the season.  The test that was positive for Kamila was taken at the Russian skating championships in December, probably after she won.  The sample was sent to a lab in Sweden for processing and, supposedly, due to COVID, the lab fell behind in running the specimens and didn't get to this one until last week.  It sounds fishy as hell.  I work in health care, I know that labs have been overworked, but, one would presume that there is some sort of queue for resulting and that the specimen of the Russian athlete who won the competition should've been processed more quickly than that.

Apparently results from a WADA lab for Europeans was turned around in 4 days, so something ain't right here.

9 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

So it shed on her like the anti vaxxers claim vaccines do? 

Drinking from the same glass, are you fucking kidding me. 

Does he dissolve his pills in water? What the heck?

[Dr.OO7]

Well, it's creative, I'll give them that.

[HartofDixie]

 

[Minneapple]

No team medal ceremony is bullshit because it deprives the US and Japanese teams of their moment.

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

And no matter what happens, there will be a cloud over their heads.

As there should be. In fact there’s a cloud over the whole fucking sport and all of the international organizations that govern sports.

[absnow54]

4 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

No team medal ceremony is bullshit because it deprives the US and Japanese teams of their moment

I understand excluding Russia, but I don't get why they can't let US and Japan have a ceremony with the current color medal they've earned, and then send them new ones after the investigation finishes, if the placements change. It stinks that they've been deprived their medal, and may not physically get one for months -- or years, depending on how stubborn Russia is. 

[healthnut]

Christine has since reported that the US is pushing heavily to have a medal ceremony in the next couple of days just getting the silver so the athletes can at least have their moment. 

[blackwing]

Not surprised at all at the decision, I figured there would be no consequences since she's only 15.  What a crock.  It sends the message that Russia can continue doping, and now other countries can as well, as long as the athlete is a minor.

This is why Russia should be banned from the Olympics completely.  I still don't understand how Russia the country can get banned but they still get to compete as ROC.  That doesn't make sense.  If the country was banned because of state-sponsored systemic doping but they don't want to punish the individual clean athletes, then those individual clean athletes should all have to compete as independents.  Just like those refugee athletes who compete under the Olympic flag.  These Russian athletes shouldn't be able to use a ROC name and Russian colours AT ALL.

[merylinkid]

So a skater fails her drug test -- and the punishment is no one else gets a medal ceremony because the skater would also get one?   There's a solution here .... but punishing skaters who did NOT fail drug tests is not it.  Why even bother to test at this point if there are no real consequences?

[galaxygirl76]

It's beyond unfair for everyone else to get robbed of their moment on the medal podium, both teams and likely the women's event. If, for example, the Belgian skater wins a medal (which will be a big deal because Belgium doesn't win a lot of winter medals) she won't get her moment because the IOC are a spineless organization where when it comes to the Russians everything goes. 

 

*I picked Belgium because they are our neighbors and I'm excited to see her do well, but really can put anyone who's not Russian there. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by galaxygirl76

[carrier76]

1 hour ago, healthnut said:

GMAB. 

 

This….is what she said? If this is what she said then my sympathy for her is kind of waning. I know it’s Russia, and she’s a kid, and the Eteri of it all, but….she’s being complicit in the lie. Which again goes back to her being a kid, and Russia, and the Eteri of it all. Ugh. This situation is so unfortunate and maddening.

[Lady Whistleup]

8 minutes ago, carrier76 said:

This….is what she said? If this is what she said then my sympathy for her is kind of waning. I know it’s Russia, and she’s a kid, and the Eteri of it all, but….she’s being complicit in the lie. Which again goes back to her being a kid, and Russia, and the Eteri of it all. Ugh. This situation is so unfortunate and maddening.

From my understanding she was not at the hearing. This is what her lawyers said.

[healthnut]

From WADA’s official statement:
 

“WADA is therefore disappointed by today’s ruling of the CAS Ad Hoc Division. While WADA has not received the reasoned award, it appears that the CAS panel decided not to apply the terms of the Code, which does not allow for specific exceptions to be made in relation to mandatory provisional suspensions for 'protected persons', including minors.

Concerning the analysis of the athlete's sample, WADA always expects Anti-Doping Organizations to liaise with the laboratories in order to ensure they expedite the analysis of samples so that the results are received prior to athletes traveling to or competing in a major event, such as the Olympic or Paralympic Games and, where applicable, conduct results management of the cases related to such athletes.

According to information received by WADA, the sample in this case was not flagged by RUSADA as being a priority sample when it was received by the anti-doping laboratory in Stockholm, Sweden. This meant the laboratory did not know to fast-track the analysis of this sample.

As previously announced, under the terms of the Code, when a minor is involved in an anti-doping case, there is a requirement to investigate that athlete’s support personnel. RUSADA has already indicated it has begun that process. In addition, WADA’s independent Intelligence and Investigations Department will look into it.”

[absnow54]

3 minutes ago, healthnut said:

As previously announced, under the terms of the Code, when a minor is involved in an anti-doping case, there is a requirement to investigate that athlete’s support personnel. RUSADA has already indicated it has begun that process. In addition, WADA’s independent Intelligence and Investigations Department will look into it.”

Is there an agency with actual bite that can do something about this? RUSADA's investigation will obviously be, "Did you do it?" and if the answer is "No." it will be a simple case closed. And all I've been seeing is that WADA is severely underfunded, how are they going to pay for a thorough investigation? I understand countries not wanting to boycott the Olympics, because it punishes their athletes, but I wonder how many will boycott World's, since it's a dud during Olympic years anyway. 

[Jess14]

14 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

From my understanding she was not at the hearing. This is what her lawyers said.

She wasn’t there in person, but I thought I read that she testified by video for the hearing. 

[proserpina65]

Having watched the rhythm dance numbers on Saturday, I can honestly say that, as a middle-aged middle class white woman, I'm more street than any of the competitors NBC showed.  I mean, seriously, Elton John?  John Legend?  Billie Eilish?  The closest to anything street was Janet Jackson, which isn't very, although that program was fantastic.  I realize no one was going to use Grandmaster Flash or Rapper's Delight by the Sugarhill Gang (I'd pay to see that!), but still, someone could've at least come up with Mary J. Blige or Jay Z or something at least a little bit hip hop.  (Yes, I am old.)

On 2/12/2022 at 7:23 AM, ML89 said:

he “where are they” mistaking Paul Wylie for Todd Eldridge is ironic…

OMG, really?!?!?!

On 2/12/2022 at 6:23 AM, GeminiDancer said:

Some of these teams have a very… interesting view of what “street dance” is. 

Yep, I'm whiter than white, and yet still more street than most of these people.

[Snow Apple]

It's crazy. That one team got disqualified for baggy uniforms but Russia gets away with doping. Again.

This is sending a message alright. That they will twist themselves in a pretzel to find loopholes for Russia and that Russia can do whatever they want. I can see a bunch of 15 year old children competing in years to come because it's ok for them to openly dope going forward. Those poor children. 

[proserpina65]

On 2/12/2022 at 9:04 AM, GeminiDancer said:

I still wonder what was behind Evan’s split with Emily Samuelson. She was so beautiful of a skater, I didn’t like C/B for a while once they paired up. 

I still don't like them.  I appreciate that they're very talented and do complicated and difficult routines, but they leave me completely cold.  I find their routines uninvolving and, quite frankly, boring.

[OnePlusOne]

42 minutes ago, carrier76 said:

This….is what she said? If this is what she said then my sympathy for her is kind of waning. I know it’s Russia, and she’s a kid, and the Eteri of it all, but….she’s being complicit in the lie. Which again goes back to her being a kid, and Russia, and the Eteri of it all. Ugh. This situation is so unfortunate and maddening.

And she's letting them drag her grandfather into this ridiculous lie of a "defense". It's disgusting enough that Eteri and Russia are doping minors, but blaming it on an elderly man who probably barely sees his granddaughter while she's training...I don't have words.

[healthnut]

I clarified the street rhythms several pages back during the team competition but the rhythm choices included “hip hop, jazz, reggae, reggaeton, blues, funk, swing, krump, popping, or disco.” The midnight blues pattern itself needed to be to music that was 86-90 bpm so it needed to be slower. 

[Rootbeer]

21 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Is there an agency with actual bite that can do something about this? RUSADA's investigation will obviously be, "Did you do it?" and if the answer is "No." it will be a simple case closed. And all I've been seeing is that WADA is severely underfunded, how are they going to pay for a thorough investigation? I understand countries not wanting to boycott the Olympics, because it punishes their athletes, but I wonder how many will boycott World's, since it's a dud during Olympic years anyway. 

I'd be willing to pitch in for a Go Fund Me to help WADA do a thorough investigation.  Of course, it won't matter in the end because no one has the guts to stand up to the Russians and call them out on this BS.

Scott Hamilton was on the Today Show this morning and he called the IOC and the rest of them cowards who are afraid to make a decision that might upset the Russians and he's right.  He said that there is no reason Kamila should be allowed to skate and for the IOC to add an additional skater to the list for the women's is an indication that they know it, too and are trying to have it both ways.  He referred to the whole thing as a 'Clown Show'.

BTW, the announcers Today said that there was a similar incident at the last summer games.  A European athlete was found to have failed a drug test after the games began and before his competition.  He was barred from competing and sent home which is apparently exactly as the rules require.  So, Kamila will suffer 'irreparable harm' if she cannot skate but some random non-Russian athlete is tossed out on his butt?  The double standard when it comes to Russia is mind blowing.

[Rootbeer]

6 minutes ago, OnePlusOne said:

And she's letting them drag her grandfather into this ridiculous lie of a "defense". It's disgusting enough that Eteri and Russia are doping minors, but blaming it on an elderly man who probably barely sees his granddaughter while she's training...I don't have words.

Even if she inadvertently consumed something, how does that make it ok?  If she accidentally drank tainted water that just happened to help her performance, then, her performance was not legit.  I don't see how it matters whether it was her grandfather's med (it wasn't, of course) or given to her by her coaches, it potentially helped her win and that is not fair and she should be stripped of her Russian and European titles and sent home without competing.

[proserpina65]

On 2/13/2022 at 1:03 AM, OnePlusOne said:

Yes! That would've been so awesome. The choreography needed music with this type of energy. I also wish their costumes were brighter, and less Virtue/Moir-Lite.

Their moves were interesting, but the music really lacked energy.  John Legend was not suited to that program at all.

[GeminiDancer]

Quote

Yep, I'm whiter than white, and yet still more street than most of these people.

I get Billie Eilish as there are a ton of street jazz routines to her music, but Kiss! Kiss?!?! Absolutely not. There are so many amazing hip hop choreographers out there.

Only P/C understood the assignment.

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, Rootbeer said:

Even if she inadvertently consumed something, how does that make it ok?  If she accidentally drank tainted water that just happened to help her performance, then, her performance was not legit.  I don't see how it matters whether it was her grandfather's med (it wasn't, of course) or given to her by her coaches, it potentially helped her win and that is not fair and she should be stripped of her Russian and European titles and sent home without competing.

The advantage of the drug is mostly through training, as it allows you to train longer and harder at peak performance. She had an unfair advantage at the Russian Nationals, when she tested positive, but if (and that's a big IF, as I find the excuse complete horseshit) it was a one time accident, then it wouldn't impact her performance at the Olympics. If she was using it regularly, as we all suspect she was, then the unfair advantage would be a seasons worth of enhanced practices, but WADA has to prove that first. 

[Rootbeer]

Just now, absnow54 said:

The advantage of the drug is mostly through training, as it allows you to train longer and harder at peak performance. She had an unfair advantage at the Russian Nationals, when she tested positive, but if (and that's a big IF, as I find the excuse complete horseshit) it was a one time accident, then it wouldn't impact her performance at the Olympics. If she was using it regularly, as we all suspect she was, then the unfair advantage would be a seasons worth of enhanced practices, but WADA has to prove that first. 

So, if she had a 'one time accident' at Russian nationals that helped her in that competition, then she should be stripped of her win there.  That disqualifies her from Europeans and the Olympics.  Kamila is only at the Olympics because she competed and won in Russia.  

[ChicksDigScars]

2 hours ago, healthnut said:

GMAB. 

 

You have got to be shitting me. Oh, FFS. The chutzpah of the ROC. Yeah, let's blame Grandpa instead of her coaches. The evil runs deep. 

Another fangirly moment. Jean-Luc Baker liked one of my tweets! 

 

[proserpina65]

11 hours ago, estellasmum said:

I guess there's a reason I never watch ice dancing, even when it is Olympics time. Everything has put me to sleep, except alien. 

 

Whereas the alien routine practically put me to sleep.

[ShellsandCheese]

Take the 15 year old and the other competitors who have worked hard to get tot he Olympics out of the equation and this is exactly what the IOC, ISU, and WADA deserve. The whole system is a joke and maybe this will finally lead to a meaningful overhaul. Also, I really want to know what the Russians are holding over everyone’s heads. Even the complaints and pushback from the other skating federations has been weak……

[MaryMitch]

One thing I found interesting about Tara and Johnny's comments was they both blamed Kamila Valieva for taking a med that she knew was banned. I don't think they mentioned Eteri by name (although they may have made a glancing comment to "her coaches".  

[ChicksDigScars]

6 minutes ago, MaryMitch said:

One thing I found interesting about Tara and Johnny's comments was they both blamed Kamila Valieva for taking a med that she knew was banned. I don't think they mentioned Eteri by name (although they may have made a glancing comment to "her coaches".  

I about fell off the couch when Johnny declared the ruling wrong, staing that Kamila should NOT be allowed to skate, and backed up Tara. I also noticed that Johnny and Tara were dressed in a rather subdued manner (well, for them), which I can only assume was to convey the seriousness of the situation. 

Ice Dance comment: Who's idea was it to have the third Russian team (you know who's daughter) skate to Moulin Rouge? Oh yeah, let's have a very young team, who still skate like the ice is made of oatmeal, and have them perform to a piece of music that has your mind immediately go to Virtue and Moir, of all people. Jesus. Dumb.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by ChicksDigScars

[absnow54]

Is Johnny and Tara's response posted anywhere? I'm sure they'll play it again during primetime tonight, but wanted to check in case they don't.

[Sarahsmile416]

1 minute ago, absnow54 said:

Is Johnny and Tara's response posted anywhere? I'm sure they'll play it again during primetime tonight, but wanted to check in case they don't.

I saw it on Peacock 

[lurkerbee]

3 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Is Johnny and Tara's response posted anywhere? I'm sure they'll play it again during primetime tonight, but wanted to check in case they don't.

Here you go:

https://youtu.be/qU9KpsLYsSg

[OnePlusOne]

3 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Is Johnny and Tara's response posted anywhere? I'm sure they'll play it again during primetime tonight, but wanted to check in case they don't.

NBC posted a video of the segment on their Twitter.

[Minneapple]

It will be super ridiculous as well if any of the Russian skaters are there for the gala. Like, way to go, IOC. If only they had punished Russia properly and banned them from the Olympics for a cycle or two instead of a ridiculous slap on the wrist punishment like just not having their flag there. Maybe Russia would have learned its lesson then.

Sha'Carri Richardson responds. Realize that Richardson was done IMMENSE harm by not being able to participate in the Olympics. She was set to be the next FloJo.