Figure Skating

[KittenPokerCheater]

15 minutes ago, carrier76 said:

I am not surprised by any of this.

I have long suspected doping by the Russians in skating, especially with the ladies, because of how frail they are.  And I heard that at the last olympics Eteri barely let them drink b/c somehow it would block any drugs from being revealed (not sure how) from being revealed in the tests..  

Even if Valieva skates/wins in the singles event, her win will be tarnished.

What this means for the team events, wow.  I wonder how the russian media will cover this, and what will happen to Eteri.

 

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, emma675 said:

The Olympics just. got. interesting. LOL.

It took this long for you? Between US topping Russia on night one, and then struggling to outscore Japan on the final night, Vincent testing positive for COVID, and Hanyu popping a quad, I've been on the edge of my seat all week!

[BlackberryJam]

So, it takes about 3.5 days for the longest lasting diuretic to leave your system. If Kamila was taking them up until 3 days before the pre-Olympic testing, she'd have kept her weight down and might have thought she was clear. (By she, I mean the entire team, or whomever was in charge.)

If Eteri's skaters take diuretics and then limit water intake, they are going to be thinner, leaner, etc. It will also be more difficult to get a viable urine sample because they can't pee.

 

[emma675]

Just now, absnow54 said:

It took this long for you? Between US topping Russia on night one, and then struggling to outscore Japan on the final night, Vincent testing positive for COVID, and Hanyu popping a quad, I've been on the edge of my seat all week!

I think I might have been the only person who wasn't surprised one of our skaters (or any skater for that matter) tested positive for Covid. It was always going to happen, esp. with Omicron. I am heartbroken for Vincent, though. I clapped when the US topped Russia, but I knew it wouldn't last (until now?? hehe) and Hanyu popping his jump made me gasp, but the true drahma has not officially started for me until this morning. Now it's a soap opera. 

But seriously, I do feel incredibly sorry for Kamila. She's just a kid, caught up in a giant scheme she had no control over, and she'll be the one who gets rolled over and left behind. Assuming this is true, that is.

[Enero]

It is now being “reported” by Russian Twitter that Kamila has been suspended and that the drug was a “preventive” medicine for heart problems. 😒 SMH

If true about the drug, that is no doubt performance enhancing. Anyone with heart problems that require drug treatment would not be competitively figure skating and doing quads. Furthermore this would not be on a 15 year old, but her handlers ie Eteri etc.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Enero

[Snow Apple]

Yeah, missing a jump and testing positive for Covid is sad, but crap happens in life. 

But doping? I feel for the girl because I can't believe she wasn't forced. Her quad is tainted now even if she can do it without the "medication." But again, I blame Eteri and the others in control. 

I just hope the girl survives this and not tossed away.

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Snow Apple

[Mellowyellow]

Can't wait for the requisite Eteri interview burying Kamila for good.

"I teach her all I can but she was hungry. W teach them to be competitive but Kamila had a special hunger I could not stop. So she took the pills. We did not know. Training was going so well. We thought her technique improved from all the training. Why she would do this I'll never understand."

[BitterApple]

Heart problems?! Ah, the Maria Sharapova defense....

[Rootbeer]

The drug seems to be Trimetazidine.  It is usually given to heart patients who have chest pain.  It seems that the medication dilates blood vessels which increases blood flow to the heart and also works to increase glucose oxidation.  In other words, it increases the amount of energy in the form of glucose that is available to the body for activity.

I can find no reference to it as a preventative for anything or use for anything other than cardiac chest pain, so, if Russia claims it was for that, it seems they are lying.

I am sure it is fairly obvious that any medication that might help increase blood flow and provide fuel to the cells is potentially performance enhancing.

[ChicksDigScars]

Isn't a "heart medication" what Russia got popped for in the past? Gee, how will they be punished now? Not be able to call themselves Russia....oh wait. Not be able to use their flag and anthem....oh, wait. Those "punishments" certainly taught them a lesson.

Oh, I know. Give them their team Gold and slap them upside the heads with them and say, "Naughty, naughty cheaters. Carry on." 

 

[KittenPokerCheater]

...I wonder what Johnny Weir is going to say now.
And Tara, but mostly Johnny and his sycophantic love for all things russian.

[Lady Whistleup]

I feel for Kamila. There';s no way a 15 year old was doping on her own. This was her coaches and trainers not looking out for her best interests.

I also cannot stomach the vile comments that are headed Kamila's way on social media. 

[Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I feel for Kamila. There';s no way a 15 year old was doping on her own. This was her coaches and trainers not looking out for her best interests.

I also cannot stomach the vile comments that are headed Kamila's way on social media. 

Just think about the vile comments coming her way from Eteri.  Obviously, a 15 year old kid does not have the judgement or reasoning abilities to choose to use PEDS on her own without assistance and encouragement from someone else.  I would only hope that someone, other than the Russians, gets to talk to her about it and she is able to tell the truth about what happened.  And, if it was Eteri who gave her the meds, that Eteri be banned from the sport.  It is one thing when an adult athlete makes the choice to dope, it is quite another when a young teen, who we know has virtually no autonomy whatsoever in every aspect of her life, is caught doping.  I only hope someone on the IOC has the stones to investigate this properly.  However, based on past history, I am sure they don't and Eteri will get a slap on the wrist and live to cheat again.

[Minneapple]

I totally believe a 15-year-old would dope on her own. But reading about her training environment, either the coaches gave her something (similar to the Romanian gymnast Andrea Raducan) or the pressure was so enormous that she felt like she needed to take something.

Nobody would put it past Eteri to give something to her skaters.

[Lady Whistleup]

1 minute ago, Minneapple said:

I totally believe a 15-year-old would dope on her own. But reading about her training environment, either the coaches gave her something (similar to the Romanian gymnast Andrea Raducan) or the pressure was so enormous that she felt like she needed to take something.

Nobody would put it past Eteri to give something to her skaters.

eteri measures her skaters' weights multiple times a day. I can totally believe that she hounded Kamila so much about weight that Kamila bought some diet pills in desperation. But I also think that Eteri probably gave her something.

Such a shame. Kamila probably did not need PED's. She is so, so talented.

[absnow54]

3 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I totally believe a 15-year-old would dope on her own. But reading about her training environment, either the coaches gave her something (similar to the Romanian gymnast Andrea Raducan) or the pressure was so enormous that she felt like she needed to take something.

Yes, but Trimetazidine, if that's the drug that was used, seems oddly specific for a 15 year old to identify and source on her own. The last Russian athlete who was suspended for using it, was a bobsledder whose mother was a cardiac doctor.

Edited February 9, 2022 by absnow54

[roughing it]

I imagine this conversation - Eteri:  "Sweet Kamila, here is your vitamin.  Now take it like a good girl.  That's it..."  Then hear Eteri laughing like Ursula the sea witch.

So sad really.  Kamila is a beautiful skater.

[Snow Apple]

1 minute ago, Rootbeer said:

JI only hope someone on the IOC has the stones to investigate this properly.  However, based on past history, I am sure they don't and Eteri will get a slap on the wrist and live to cheat again.

Eteri churns out winners so I'm not holding my breath that anything will happen to her, no matter how much we hope and she deserves. That's what makes me angry. It seems she can do whatever she wants and if a skater falls from grace (which Eteri herself caused)? Next!

[absnow54]

2 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Eteri churns out winners so I'm not holding my breath that anything will happen to her, no matter how much we hope and she deserves. That's what makes me angry. It seems she can do whatever she wants and if a skater falls from grace (which Eteri herself caused)? Next!

Remember when all her skaters defected to Plushenko for 10 minutes?

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, absnow54 said:

Remember when all her skaters defected to Plushenko for 10 minutes?

They actually eat a lot of cake and pizza at his academy. No idea how much they actually consume but they're always having birthday parties and that's what the kids get served.

[Lady Whistleup]

I hope after these Olympics Kamila's parents do whats right for her and find another coach for her. she's 15, she's phenomenally talented, there will be plenty of coaches wanting to coach her.

This is so heartbreaking.

[Sarahsmile416]

Just now, Lady Whistleup said:

I hope after these Olympics Kamila's parents do whats right for her and find another coach for her. she's 15, she's phenomenally talented, there will be plenty of coaches wanting to coach her.

This is so heartbreaking.

I hope her parents are not complicit in this…

[Lady Whistleup]

1 minute ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

I hope her parents are not complicit in this…

her parents live far away in Kazan. 

[Sarahsmile416]

2 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

her parents live far away in Kazan. 

Doesn’t mean that they don’t know, are told by Eteri…

[BitterApple]

5 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

I hope her parents are not complicit in this…

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were. I watched a documentary on Russian athletes and it's not uncommon for parents to give kids growth hormones and other junk, hoping to give them a competitive advantage. 

[Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

Doesn’t mean that they don’t know, are told by Eteri…

It also doesn't mean that they haven't been handsomely compensated to relinquish all decisions about their daughter to Eteri.  Even if they didn't know about the doping, they would be complicit for not staying on top of their daughter's training.  Money talks though, and, if letting Eteri run Kamila's life was profitable for them, they might've been willing to look the other way.

[ChicksDigScars]

I think we can safely assume that a 15 year old kid was just doing what she was ordered to do, and the real villains are her coaching team. Especially in THAT environment. Do what the evil bitch says or there are a dozen girls behind you that can take your place and get the preferential treatment and good ice times. Kamila will take the fall for either not knowing what she was being given, or too scared to tell them NO when ordered to take it. 

NBC strangely silent on everything, and we know they've never met a storyline that they couldn't blow the fuck out of proportion. The U.S. team possibly moving up to Gold Medal position? They need the juicy story to up the ratings. They must be chomping at the bit to release the hounds. 

Or they're busy talking Johnny off of the nearest ledge. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by ChicksDigScars

[Sarahsmile416]

1 minute ago, Rootbeer said:

It also doesn't mean that they haven't been handsomely compensated to relinquish all decisions about their daughter to Eteri.  Even if they didn't know about the doping, they would be complicit for not staying on top of their daughter's training.  Money talks though, and, if letting Eteri run Kamila's life was profitable for them, they might've been willing to look the other way.

Absolutely…unfortunately that’s basically what I was thinking…hope it’s not true obviously.  I’d love to believe someone out there wants what’s best for her as a person and not merely as an athlete 

[BitterApple]

6 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

 Especially in THAT environment. Do what the evil bitch says or there are a dozen girls behind you that can take your place and get the preferential treatment and good ice times. 

Wasn't that basically the Karolyis stance as well? Put up or shut because everyone's replaceable? The whole thing is so depressing.  It seems like there's a lot of parallels between gymnastics and skating. Too many young, vulnerable girls living far from home and under the influence of people who don't always have their best interests at heart. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by BitterApple

[carrier76]

8 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I think we can safely assume that a 15 year old kid was just doing what she was ordered to do, and the real villains are her coaching team. Especially in THAT environment. Do what the evil bitch says or there are a dozen girls behind you that can take your place and get the preferential treatment and good ice times. Kamila will take the fall for either not knowing what she was being given, or too scared to tell them NO when ordered to take it. 

NBC strangely silent on everything, and we know they've never met a storyline that they couldn't blow the fuck out of proportion. The U.S. team possibly moving up to Gold Medal position? They need to story to up the ratings. They must be chomping at the bit to release the hounds. 

Or they're busy talking Johnny off of the nearest ledge. 

Jackie Wong keeps stressing that nothing has been officially confirmed, so maybe that’s why? Of course, I haven’t refreshed Twitter in the last 10 minutes, and that’s literally how fast this story has been changing. So maybe it is confirmed and official.

[kittykat]

Me last night: no skating tonight I'll take a night off from the boards what could happen?

Well shit...

The fact that it's golden girl Kamila breaks this wide open.  What to do I don't know.  I feel bad but it's not like this is RUSSIA'S FIRST INFRACTION!  Fine Eteri?  Ban her from skating ladies?  I do think the punishment should fit the past and the team medal should be stripped if it was in her system during the skates and that is not me going "woohoo gold for US." I'd say the same thing if a US skater was busted.

20 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

It also doesn't mean that they haven't been handsomely compensated to relinquish all decisions about their daughter to Eteri.  Even if they didn't know about the doping, they would be complicit for not staying on top of their daughter's training.  Money talks though, and, if letting Eteri run Kamila's life was profitable for them, they might've been willing to look the other way.

The parents are not innocent in this situation.  While it's not entirely comparable there were plenty of parents who knew about Larry Fucking Nassar and looked the other way because they wanted a superstar in the family.  

[galaxygirl76]

48 minutes ago, roughing it said:

I imagine this conversation - Eteri:  "Sweet Kamila, here is your vitamin.  Now take it like a good girl.  That's it..."  Then hear Eteri laughing like Ursula the sea witch.

So sad really.  Kamila is a beautiful skater.

That's how the DDR ran things.

[Minneapple]

I do wonder how NBC will cover this tonight in prime time. Should be interesting to say the least.

51 minutes ago, roughing it said:

Then hear Eteri laughing like Ursula the sea witch

Cruella. Before she got all tragic backstoried.

[HartofDixie]

 

 

[Good Queen Jane]

According to this, since Kamila is under 16, even if the test was positive, she could only get a reprimand and still keep her medal and even compete next week.

[HartofDixie]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Heart problems?! Ah, the Maria Sharapova defense....

A lot of Russian athletes seem to have heart “problems”. 

[Sarahsmile416]

4 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

According to this, since Kamila is under 16, even if the test was positive, she could only get a reprimand and still keep her medal and even compete next week.

Age or not, I don’t see how they could keep the gold team medal and not have a major problem on their hands…because regardless, it’s still a “tainted” score…or is it all considered A-ok because she’s 15?  
 

The whole thing pisses me off that Eteri could slither away from this unscathed because she managed to skirt the rules by giving it to her now instead of at 16. 

[absnow54]

5 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

According to this, since Kamila is under 16, even if the test was positive, she could only get a reprimand and still keep her medal and even compete next week.

I think the "lesser" punishment would be that she won't be banned from the sport, but I can't imagine that there's a loophole that anyone under 16 can use whichever substance they want and then compete.

[CeeBeeGee]

2 hours ago, Jeddah said:

You broke my heart, Kamila! You broke it!

All kidding aside, I am heartbroken for her. This is 1000% not her fault.

 

2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I know Simone went through a ton of crap to get her ADHD meds approved prior to the Olympics. I'm assuming the rules on those and how to get approval are out there. Then again, maybe Eteri thinks her people don't have to follow the rules.

Hey--Russian media? Those guys who have been shitty about Simone Biles for years because she takes approved medication? (See also: Maria Paseka and Viktoria Komova.) Those guys who never miss a chance to shit all over Simone and also Serena Williams, accusing them of using PEDs? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is the Witch going to receive any fall out from this?

If it's true and it's PEDs I doubt Kamila is sourcing them and dosing herself. Or are they going to hang her out spectacularly and the Witch will continue on with all her riches?

Of course she's not. Of course they will (see how China treated Dong Fangxiao. They blamed the whole age falsification thing on her--a 14 year old child). Kamila will be summarily dismissed.

Fuck Eteri.

 

1 hour ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Isn't a "heart medication" what Russia got popped for in the past? Gee, how will they be punished now? Not be able to call themselves Russia....oh wait. Not be able to use their flag and anthem....oh, wait. Those "punishments" certainly taught them a lesson.

Oh, I know. Give them their team Gold and slap them upside the heads with them and say, "Naughty, naughty cheaters. Carry on." 

BAN THEIR ASSES. I am so sick of this "Russian Olympic Committee." BAN THEIR ASSES. Give them the North Korea treatment (they were banned from ALL international gymnastics competition for years because of cartoonishly obvious age falsifications). BAN THEIR ASSES. I feel bad for the ones who aren't doping but it's clear Russia does not respect the system and thinks they can game it.

BAN THEIR ASSES.

[Irlandesa]

11 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I do wonder how NBC will cover this tonight in prime time. Should be interesting to say the least.

They're going to play by the Olympic rules. And if those rules state that she's too young to be identified, then I wonder if they'll just ignore it.

6 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

According to this, since Kamila is under 16, even if the test was positive, she could only get a reprimand and still keep her medal and even compete next week.

Ugh.  I am of the belief that it's more likely adults gave this to her than she got it for herself but if this is the case, what incentive is there for countries not to dope their under-16 athletes?

[Sarahsmile416]

1 minute ago, absnow54 said:

I think the "lesser" punishment would be that she won't be banned from the sport, but I can't imagine that there's a loophole that anyone under 16 can use whichever substance they want and then compete.

I would certainly hope so! That would be pretty f*cked up and send the absolute wrong message to other young skaters 

[Minneapple]

10 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

According to this, since Kamila is under 16, even if the test was positive, she could only get a reprimand and still keep her medal and even compete next week.

Man that's total bullshit. So any athlete under 16 could just use whatever, steroids, HGH and oh they're under 16 they can do that?

If she's old enough to compete then she's old enough to play by the rules.

[annzeepark914]

I'm fed up with Russia always being able to send their athletes even though the country was "banned" from the past several Olympics. The only way to stop this repeated cheating is to ban all Russians (athletes, judges, etc) from the next six Olympics (3 summer/3 winter). 

Edited February 9, 2022 by annzeepark914

[Snow Apple]

I feel like if it was someone from a different country, the team would be dis-qualified and the person sent home by now. I don't know if that's true, but it's what I witnessed from my limited sports viewing so far.

[Conotocarious]

Wait…she still gets to compete and keep her medal?

No wonder no one gives a damn about the Olympics anymore.

[peachmangosteen]

I am flabbergasted. If you’re allowed to compete when you’re under 16 then you should have to actually, you know, follow the rules lol.

[blackwing]

Seems to me that it should be an easy decision.  They should lose the team gold, and she should be kicked out of the competition.  Is it because it's Russia and her that they are considering letting her still compete next week?  That's crazy.  If she is using a banned substance, why would she be allowed to compete in the singles?

If she gets to keep her medal and skate next week, this would only further the belief that Russia should be banned completely from the next several Olympics, as doping clearly permeates many Russian athletes in many sports.  If she gets to skate and keep her medal, then there should be an asterisk next to the results when she wins her tainted individual gold medal.

I am only a casual figure skater watcher, and forgive me if this has been addressed, but when Hanyu did a single instead of a planned quad, he instantly got zero points because he didn't do his planned quad.  What if he did a triple?  Does he still get zero points? Or does the jump get downgraded to a triple?

I was following the discussion here about how Valieva's fall on her quad still gave her more points than if she had done a planned triple cleanly, which seems crazy.  If that's the case, why wouldn't everyone say they are going for quads, fall, and still rack up points?

Edited February 9, 2022 by blackwing

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, Conotocarious said:

Wait…she still gets to compete and keep her medal?

No wonder no one gives a damn about the Olympics anymore.

That's all speculation. It's possible they'll still let her compete, and retroactively strip her of her medal(s) post investigation. There's no way they're letting her keep medals just because she's under 16 though, in my opinion. 

[Minneapple]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

I am flabbergasted. If you’re allowed to compete when you’re under 16 then you should have to actually, you know, follow the rules lol.

Even the four-year-olds playing T-ball have to play by the rules.

[absnow54]

6 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I am only a casual figure skater watcher, and forgive me if this has been addressed, but when Hanyu did a single instead of a planned quad, he instantly got zero points because he didn't do his planned quad.  What if he did a triple?  Does he still get zero points? Or does the jump get downgraded to a triple?

A single has a base point value of 0, but if he had done a double or triple, he would have received points. This chart shows the base values for all the different jumps, so you can see how much more points you get for performing one verse the others. Then there's the GOE which adds an additional level of complexity that even I don't fully understand (it's scaled based on the base value.)

Edited February 9, 2022 by absnow54