Figure Skating

[emmawoodhouse]

Loved Kaori's skate. There's total security in her jumps, and her artistry has finally caught up. I hope she can spoil the Russian medal party.

Edited February 16, 2022 by emmawoodhouse

[Avaleigh]

24 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Dumb question how can Sasha do so many quads but can't do a triple axel?

Isn't triple axel considered the easier jump?

Adding to what's already been said, most of Eteri's skaters don't have great technique on their double axels so it's much harder to turn them into triples. Aliona and Kamila are exceptions and it's because they spent more time with other coaches before moving to Team Eteri.

[nickp1991]

Johnny Weir and Tara Lipinski are the heroes of this Olympics

[choclatechip45]

This is a cute article on Mariah/Adam Rippon coaching relationship. Adam is the Raf whisperer to Mariah. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2022/02/14/adam-rippon-mariah-bell-olympics/

[GreyBunny]

6 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

If you are willing to drug a 15 year old. You are going to forge documents to make them old enough to compete. 

Then make them try. At the very least raising the age limit will get rid of the “can’t hold her accountable because she’s a child” bullshit. With every part of life being on camera more, it’s harder to fake ages and identities than it used to be.

[Frisky Wig]

I was stunned at how SILENT Tara and Johnny were during Kamila’s free skate. As they should be, it was the right decision, but it’s Tara and Johnny for crying out loud! 

[redpencil]

4 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

I think changing the rules to even the playing field so that jumps are not so overscored while other, more artistic, but also athletically challenging skills are given their due is more likely to result in significant change.  Certainly the score for attempting but missing, a quad needs to be revised.  Maybe deduct 1 point for the first fall and go up from there so the butt Zamboni skates aren't getting overscored.  Reward beautiful skating and not just frantic jumping.

This is sort of already what happens. In addition to the negative GOE, you get a 1 point deduction on the first two falls (I believe), then it increases after that for subsequent falls. I think they could certainly readjust that a bit again, maybe increase starting with the 2nd fall, not the 3rd.

3 hours ago, specialj67 said:

I’ve seen elsewhere the suggestion that the judging panels be split—half of the judges are judging the specific elements and awarding the GOE, and the other half are looking at the program as a whole and awarding the PCS. I like this idea, but would it ever happen? Could it even work? I’d like to think so, but I was stupid enough to think things would change more after the 6.0 system was scrapped.

I feel like in theory this would make sense, but if you're keeping the same number of judges for each panel as you have now (I don't think you'd want fewer), that would mean double the number of judges you need, potentially meaning having to use some lower-par judges. It would probably work for international events, and nationals for the bigger countries, but I think this would really be an issue for smaller federations. I think helping smaller federations grow is a good thing, and this would make that much more difficult.

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

The current approach where just attempting a quad earns more points than a well executed triple reminds me of how the Chinese approached gymnastics in the 2008 Games. They just made sure the ladies had absurdly high start values and then it really didn't matter if the execution was great or not. The Code Of Points was promptly adjusted for the next quad so that couldn't happen again.

Earlier in the thread someone suggested that they set a cap for the elements rather than a base value and I like that idea as a starting point.

Falling on a quad does not get more points than a well-executed triple currently. I looked at the protocols from the men's free skate for some examples (making sure to compare the same type of jump and neither getting the bonus). (1) Shoma fell on his 4F and got a total of 5.66 points while Jason Brown got 7.65 for his 3F. Shoma did not get dinged for underrotation, but if he had, I believe the gap would have been higher. (2) Kevin Aymoz fell on his 4T with an underrotation and got 3.80 points, and on his very next jump got 5.16 on a 3T (which got mostly 2s on GOE, so not even the greatest 3T).

I think there's a fair argument to be had about whether those gaps should have been higher and falls punished more (especially multiple falls), but they don't get more points than a clean jump of the same type.

[NUguy514]

2 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Stepped out and underrotated.

I didn't watch (fast-forwarded right on through all of the skating; I'm done with it), but I did look at the judging breakdown.  Valieva was not called for an underrotation on her 3A.😒

[emmawoodhouse]

6 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

I didn't watch (fast-forwarded right on through all of the skating; I'm done with it), but I did look at the judging breakdown.  Valieva was not called for an underrotation on her 3A.😒

No? She should have. It was at least a quarter turn short.

[NUguy514]

2 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

No? She should have. It was at least a quarter turn short.

Nope (although Trusova was called for an underrotation), and while I didn't watch, I 100% believe she did.

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, NUguy514 said:

Nope (although Trusova was called for an underrotation), and while I didn't watch, I 100% believe she did.

Kamila got some preferential treatment. Not surprised. Trusova doesn't seem to benefit from Skating While Russian as much as the others. Although her PCS was ridiculous. 

[absnow54]

3 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Kamila got some preferential treatment. Not surprised. Trusova doesn't seem to benefit from Skating While Russian as much as the others. Although her PCS was ridiculous. 

Tara called that out too. After Trusova’s skate, she had the second highest PCS score of the night, and Tara, very coldly said, “That’s not what I saw.” They are done with the Skating While Russian bonus. 

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, absnow54 said:

Tara called that out too. After Trusova’s skate, she had the second highest PCS score of the night, and Tara, very coldly said, “That’s not what I saw.” They are done with the Skating While Russian bonus. 

I love that she acknowledged that she didn't understand the scores. No reason Trusova should be over Wakaba. Wakaba's program was superior in every way. Trusova fell on her ass as usual but she's held up with those scores because they want her on the podium. The judges couldn't be more transparent about their blatant favoritism.

[Hana Chan]

8 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

most of Eteri's skaters don't have great technique on their double axels

They don't have good jump technique period. I get that Eteri gets applauded for getting so many high-level jumps out of her proteges, but the technique that she teaches them isn't a good one. They pre-rotate, which puts tremendous extra strain on their backs (notable since many of her former students suffer from severe back problems as they get older). Sure, they get the rotations in but I'm endlessly frustrated that the pre-rotation is never called out by the judges. 

Compound that with the strictly controlled diets, lack of hydration and apparent doping that we've got more than enough reason to suspect is not an isolated incident, Other coaches outside of Russia have said outright that if they adopted techniques that Eteri uses, they would be run out of the sport. 

1 hour ago, absnow54 said:

Tara called that out too. After Trusova’s skate, she had the second highest PCS score of the night, and Tara, very coldly said, “That’s not what I saw.” They are done with the Skating While Russian bonus. 

About fucking time, because I was totally fed up with the constant tongue baths that Eteri's skaters routinely received. Here's hoping that with the narrative about Eteri's alleged genius as a trainer is starting to fade that the judges will take note and start scoring them more reasonably.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Hana Chan

[choclatechip45]

Some nice TEAM USA bonding Madi Hubbell did Alysa's makeup for the short program and Alysa will probably have her do it for the free skate. 

https://olympics.com/en/news/alysa-liu-16-shines-in-olympic-figure-skating-debut-beijing-2022

[absnow54]

3 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Some nice TEAM USA bonding Madi Hubbell did Alysa's makeup for the short program and Alysa will probably have her do it for the free skate. 

https://olympics.com/en/news/alysa-liu-16-shines-in-olympic-figure-skating-debut-beijing-2022

Ha! This is almost my dream realized. I wanted Madison Chock to do Alysa Lui's hair, because I love her Alien Hairstyle, and Alysa obviously needed some help.

[choclatechip45]

14 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Ha! This is almost my dream realized. I wanted Madison Chock to do Alysa Lui's hair, because I love her Alien Hairstyle, and Alysa obviously needed some help.

Yeah those poor angry teenage bangs when your father makes you move to Colorado 2 months before the Olympics. 

[ChicksDigScars]

10 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I turned off the TV while The Doper was skating. She fell on her 3A?

I flipped over to the US hockey game on USA when the dopers all skated. I know the other two haven't been caught, but the likelihood of Constant Bitch Face only drugging ONE of her skaters and not the others, seems awfully slim. 

I can't say anything that hasn't been already said about the bullshit scoring. I wish the Japanese would stop being so damned polite and speak up for their skaters. Sic the Fanyu's on the Russians and especially Sambo 70.

[Hana Chan]

12 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Sic the Fanyu's on the Russians and especially Sambo 70.

LOL! We're too busy loving how Yuzu is making the ISU insane by not politely retiring, playing the social butterfly during the gala practices and getting the rare thirst trap.

[ombelico]

13 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Watching the NBC coverage and Tara just said Mariah Bell 'thrives on competition'.  Should we request that Lipinski be screened for drugs?

Thank you! When Tara said that I immediately thought, "Does she though? Does she?"

There's no guarantee that raising the minimum age to compete would change training practices, but if, for example, a coach knows that a skater won't be eligible for senior competition until they are 17, then hopefully there would be less incentive for them to be training quads when they are 13. It would also remove this "protected persons" nonsense where someone is not held to the same anti-doping standards as the rest of the field.

I got into following skating with the '92 Olympics and have watched every Olympics since then, but the Russian dominance the last 10 years has just left me cold. I was already feeling checked out from women's figure skating after the ridiculous decision to award gold to Sotnikova over Kim in Sochi, which reflected simply that the Olympics were being held in Russia, and nothing to do with the actual skating. Follow that up with Zagitova's back-loaded program that clearly exploited the loophole in the rules without a care for actually being a cohesive program. And now, this doping stuff. It's been a slow death, but Russia (and the complicit ISU) is murdering women's figure skating.

[Hana Chan]

This is well worth watching as it addresses what we've been discussing. It's the second part to the video that I posted earlier.

 

[OnePlusOne]

36 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I can't say anything that hasn't been already said about the bullshit scoring. I wish the Japanese would stop being so damned polite and speak up for their skaters. Sic the Fanyu's on the Russians and especially Sambo 70.

Haha that would be amazing. I don't understand why the Japanese federation isn't making a bigger stink about the Russian/Eteri situation. The top Japanese skaters have been impacted most negatively by the Russians cheating and getting overscored. 

For the first time since I can remember, I didn't watch the Olympic ladies short program, and I won't be watching the long program, either. Until meaningful action is taken about Eteri and Russian doping, I refuse to watch any ladies figure skating.

[absnow54]

Just now, OnePlusOne said:

Haha that would be amazing. I don't understand why the Japanese federation isn't making a bigger stink about the Russian/Eteri situation. The top Japanese skaters have been impacted most negatively by the Russians cheating and getting overscored. 

Yes, Japan is missing out on their first Team Medal, and now they have 2 skaters that could medal, and they're getting screwed over there too!

[ShellsandCheese]

9 minutes ago, OnePlusOne said:

Haha that would be amazing. I don't understand why the Japanese federation isn't making a bigger stink about the Russian/Eteri situation. The top Japanese skaters have been impacted most negatively by the Russians cheating and getting overscored. 

For the first time since I can remember, I didn't watch the Olympic ladies short program, and I won't be watching the long program, either. Until meaningful action is taken about Eteri and Russian doping, I refuse to watch any ladies figure skating.

I don’t get why all of the other federations have never made a bigger stink about the lack of suspension in general. Also, I know I’ll be an outlier but I’m not impressed with Johnny and Tara. They’ve been tongue bathing the Russians all season and it’s super easy to pile on now, but they’ve always ignored issues with their scoring, etc. And now they want to talk about it, lol. 

Also, I feel that it’s very obvious what happened. Valieva has been taking legal (as defined by WADA) drugs and supplements to improve endurance, etc and you know what - it’s fine because they are legal. Someone obviously fucked up in her camp and most likely gave her the TMZ because it’s so similar to the other ones; either not caring that it’s banned or not realizing that it’s banned. 

 Along with the sample, Valieva submitted a doping control form that declared use of three legal substances — supradyn, a multivitamin; L-carnitine, a chemical often found in heart supplements; and hypoxen - the latter two and trimetazidine, or TMZ, “are all aimed, essentially, at increasing endurance, reducing fatigue

This makes me believe that when all is said and done she’ll likely be stripped of medals. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by ShellsandCheese

[Minneapple]

They should mail the medal to Kamila's grandpa.

[Rootbeer]

5 hours ago, absnow54 said:

Tara called that out too. After Trusova’s skate, she had the second highest PCS score of the night, and Tara, very coldly said, “That’s not what I saw.” They are done with the Skating While Russian bonus. 

Article from USA Today where a retired skating judge evaluates the top women and agrees with the rest of us, including Tara; Valieva was overscored, particularly in the component score.  She also received more points for a very poorly performed triple axel than her nearest competitors did for very good doubles.

He felt Kaori should've been in first with Anna second and Kamila third.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/winter-olympics/russian-kamila-valieva-should-have-been-third-after-her-short-program-former-olympic-judge-says/ar-AATVVcT?ocid=entnewsntp

[proserpina65]

16 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I really don’t care about stuff that is not banned, those drugs aren’t the issue and it’s just a distraction to focus on it. If the drug isn’t banned - it’s not an issue. Period. At least according to WADA.

For me, it indicates a pattern of athletes being given drugs which they are unlikely to be taking for heart issues, and that is a problem.

[choclatechip45]

If you are going to raise the age because of doping you should raise the age in every Olympic sport. There was an 11 year old competing in skateboarding. There is no age minimum in swimming. 

[Rootbeer]

2 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

For me, it indicates a pattern of athletes being given drugs which they are unlikely to be taking for heart issues, and that is a problem.

Yes, the fact that Kamila 'just happened' to have 3 drugs, all of which can improve cardiac blood flow and enhance endurance and energy seems just too coincidental to be some sort of mistake. Experts have said that the 3 different meds could work synergistically to give results that are better than taking any one by itself.  The fact that 2 of them are legal doesn't change the facts, it just makes me think that there are a couple of drugs that need to be added to the banned list.

[MaryMitch]

1 minute ago, choclatechip45 said:

If you are going to raise the age because of doping you should raise the age in every Olympic sport. There was an 11 year old competing in skateboarding. There is no age minimum in swimming. 

I know each sport sets its own requirements, but that's scary.

[Rootbeer]

6 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

If you are going to raise the age because of doping you should raise the age in every Olympic sport. There was an 11 year old competing in skateboarding. There is no age minimum in swimming. 

Different sports have different physical requirements, things that change with age.  The minimum age for swimming is not a big issue because pre-pubertal kids, are not going to have the musculature and upper body strength needed to compete with older teens and adults anyway.  Same reason why male figure skaters don't start competing at the senior level at 14.  The fact is, having a pre-pubescent body is beneficial to female figure skaters based on the current rules and standards for judging.  If we want more mature skaters to be competitive and stop the parade of throw away baby Rusians, the age needs to be raised.

I don't know enough about skate boarding to comment; but, personally, I think 11 is too young for the Olympics.  Isn't that why they have the Junior Olympics?

Edited February 16, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Sarahsmile416]

13 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Yes, the fact that Kamila 'just happened' to have 3 drugs, all of which can improve cardiac blood flow and enhance endurance and energy seems just too coincidental to be some sort of mistake. Experts have said that the 3 different meds could work synergistically to give results that are better than taking any one by itself.  The fact that 2 of them are legal doesn't change the facts, it just makes me think that there are a couple of drugs that need to be added to the banned list.

Exactly!! I was just saying this today…

[absnow54]

11 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Article from USA Today where a retired skating judge evaluates the top women and agrees with the rest of us, including Tara; Valieva was overscored, particularly in the component score.  She also received more points for a very poorly performed triple axel than her nearest competitors did for very good doubles.

Higuchi, who skated a clean 3A has a technical score of 39.53, she did the same jump passes as Valieva (and Trusova) but her technical score was 44.51 (Trusova's mess was 40.12)! Higuchi had an under rotation and put her combo in the first half, so she lost about 4 points there, but how did her 3F get such a low GOE? Was it an edge call? It's just mind boggling that such a clean skate could, with the same technical content, could score so much lower.

[Good Queen Jane]

This is the lamest thing I have heard, giving out torches instead of medals for competitions Kamilla was involved in.

[absnow54]

2 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

This is the lamest thing I have heard, giving out torches instead of medals for competitions Kamilla was involved in.

I hope they've confiscated Russia's Bing Dwen Dwen's they received after the team event!

[choclatechip45]

24 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Different sports have different physical requirements, things that change with age.  The minimum age for swimming is not a big issue because pre-pubertal kids, are not going to have the musculature and upper body strength needed to compete with older teens and adults anyway.  Same reason why male figure skaters don't start competing at the senior level at 14.  The fact is, having a pre-pubescent body is beneficial to female figure skaters based on the current rules and standards for judging.  If we want more mature skaters to be competitive and stop the parade of throw away baby Rusians, the age needs to be raised.

I don't know enough about skate boarding to comment; but, personally, I think 11 is too young for the Olympics.  Isn't that why they have the Junior Olympics?

Yes, but if you want to stop abuse, USA Swimming has had its own major problems in that regard. 

https://www.salon.com/2021/06/26/troubled-waters-usa-swimmings-struggle-to-cover-up-its-sexual-abuse-crisis/

https://www.salon.com/2021/06/26/troubled-waters-usa-swimmings-struggle-to-cover-up-its-sexual-abuse-crisis/

 

 

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

LOL! We're too busy loving how Yuzu is making the ISU insane by not politely retiring, playing the social butterfly during the gala practices and getting the rare thirst trap.

Those are some damned nice thighs.

 

[BitterApple]

I'm a West Coaster, so like some of you, I didn't have the chance to watch the short program live. I was reading comments during the day though, and saw how the skating SubReddit was blowing a gasket over the scoring. After seeing the primetime coverage, now I get it.

Admittedly, I'm a casual fan, not an expert, but a blind squirrel could see how blatantly the Russians were overscored, particularly in PCS. I thought Kaori had the best program of the night in terms of presenting the whole package. I can't remember her name, but I thought the South Korean girl was amazing as well. Serious question: is there some sort of bias against Asian female skaters? 

[Hana Chan]

1 hour ago, choclatechip45 said:

If you are going to raise the age because of doping you should raise the age in every Olympic sport. There was an 11 year old competing in skateboarding. There is no age minimum in swimming. 

This is not something that easily can be answered, as we've had some absolute legends start their Olympic careers at very young ages. Sean White was a kid when he launched his Olympics career and it's shocking when you think of how many years we've watched him compete and he's retiring now at the ripe old age of 35. But I think it needs to be on a sport by sport basis and where there are problems, then it needs to be addressed. One 11 year old competing in skateboarding is a very different situation than having generations of Russian teenagers being used up like toilet paper.

For the casual viewer of the sport, who may tune in only for the Olympics, there are only the men that can be followed for more than one Olympics. The video I posted made a point about the lack of longevity in 99% of the women competing and that it's hurting the sport. The stars become disposable. While Yuzuru Hanyu can fill any venue that he wants to perform in because he's built up fans all over the world in his 10 year career as a senior, the women who won gold medals over the past decade have been pushed out of the sport. Viewers in the US were invested in Nathan Chen's victory because they remember his SP collapse the last time around and they wanted to see him bounce back (even if they are unaware of how well he's done competitively the past four years). 

It's heartbreaking to see young women leave the sport because they're too physically broken to continue, or because they've simply matured enough that they aren't competitive in their own federation. And the media has a big role in this as they held up Eteri's girls as icons of the sport while referring to Mariah Bell as "ancient" at the age of 25. That even in Eteri's rink, the instant that the newest 14 year old is ready to jump into seniors, her current champions are all but shoved out the door because they simply cannot compete with the newer kids. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Hana Chan

[Ohiopirate02]

15 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Serious question: is there some sort of bias against Asian female skaters? 

The women's figure skating judges are definitely biased, but not against Asian skaters per se.  All of Eteri's girls get scored higher because they are Eteri's girls.  The rest of the field come in at a disadvantage due to having a different coach.  The only way to beat an Eteri girl is if she bombs a skate so badly the judges have to take massive deductions.  

[Rootbeer]

29 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I'm a West Coaster, so like some of you, I didn't have the chance to watch the short program live. I was reading comments during the day though, and saw how the skating SubReddit was blowing a gasket over the scoring. After seeing the primetime coverage, now I get it.

Admittedly, I'm a casual fan, not an expert, but a blind squirrel could see how blatantly the Russians were overscored, particularly in PCS. I thought Kaori had the best program of the night in terms of presenting the whole package. I can't remember her name, but I thought the South Korean girl was amazing as well. Serious question: is there some sort of bias against Asian female skaters? 

It's not so much a bias against Asian women skaters as it is absolutely dishonest overscoring of Russian women skaters, especially those who train with Eteri Tutberidze.   We fans like to refer to it as the 'skating while Russian' bonus.  It hasn't just been a thing in women's skating either.  At times when the Russians had top male skaters, ice dancers and pairs skaters; the judges often seemed to ignore mistakes made by Russians and penalize non-Russians more heavily.

The pairs skating scandal in Salt Lake City with Sale and Pelletier from Canada losing to a Russian pair after the Russian judge cut a deal with the French judge is probably the most famous example.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Rootbeer

[kittykat]

The bias has gotten out of control.  The whole scoring system was overhauled after 2002 to prevent judging collusion but nothing has changed.  If anything it's gotten worse.  Just bring back the 6.0 system that way artistic merit has a little more weight to it again and it becomes a balancing act with integrating jumps in harmony with good choreography without sacrificing technical innovation.

[Rootbeer]

Another expert, the head of the US anti-doping agency weighs in:

https://www.insider.com/kamila-valieva-failed-doping-test-usada-head-comments-2022-2

Yup, she cheated.  There is also background on the legal substances in her urine,  one of which the US unsuccessfully tried to have banned in the past.

[CeeBeeGee]

7 hours ago, absnow54 said:

Tara called that out too. After Trusova’s skate, she had the second highest PCS score of the night, and Tara, very coldly said, “That’s not what I saw.” They are done with the Skating While Russian bonus. 

Good for her. So sick of this bullshit.

 

5 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I love that she acknowledged that she didn't understand the scores. No reason Trusova should be over Wakaba. Wakaba's program was superior in every way. Trusova fell on her ass as usual but she's held up with those scores because they want her on the podium. The judges couldn't be more transparent about their blatant favoritism.

We can't see who the judges are or which country they're from because of the "reform" after the 2002 scandal (fuck you, Russia, for cheating again), correct? The judging panel is anonymous?

 

2 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I flipped over to the US hockey game on USA when the dopers all skated. I know the other two haven't been caught, but the likelihood of Constant Bitch Face only drugging ONE of her skaters and not the others, seems awfully slim. 

I can't say anything that hasn't been already said about the bullshit scoring. I wish the Japanese would stop being so damned polite and speak up for their skaters. Sic the Fanyu's on the Russians and especially Sambo 70.

THIS. Step it up, Japan! You're losing the most from this garbage!

[izabella]

All of this drug stuff is confusing for casual fans like me.  If you allow some PED's, but not others, it seems like PEDs are acceptable.  So it's hard to get upset about the illegal ones when you know lots of athletes are using the legal ones and likely very few are competing without having used any PEDs ever.  Either ban them all, or stop pretending that top athletes are in top form without them.

[choclatechip45]

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

This is not something that easily can be answered, as we've had some absolute legends start their Olympic careers at very young ages. Sean White was a kid when he launched his Olympics career and it's shocking when you think of how many years we've watched him compete and he's retiring now at the ripe old age of 35. But I think it needs to be on a sport by sport basis and where there are problems, then it needs to be addressed. One 11 year old competing in skateboarding is a very different situation than having generations of Russian teenagers being used up like toilet paper.

For the casual viewer of the sport, who may tune in only for the Olympics, there are only the men that can be followed for more than one Olympics. The video I posted made a point about the lack of longevity in 99% of the women competing and that it's hurting the sport. The stars become disposable. While Yuzuru Hanyu can fill any venue that he wants to perform in because he's built up fans all over the world in his 10 year career as a senior, the women who won gold medals over the past decade have been pushed out of the sport. Viewers in the US were invested in Nathan Chen's victory because they remember his SP collapse the last time around and they wanted to see him bounce back (even if they are unaware of how well he's done competitively the past four years). 

It's heartbreaking to see young women leave the sport because they're too physically broken to continue, or because they've simply matured enough that they aren't competitive in their own federation. And the media has a big role in this as they held up Eteri's girls as icons of the sport while referring to Mariah Bell as "ancient" at the age of 25. That even in Eteri's rink, the instant that the newest 14 year old is ready to jump into seniors, her current champions are all but shoved out the door because they simply cannot compete with the newer kids. 

Shaun White was 19 years old during his first Olympics. So I'm not quite sure why he is relevant to the discussion and he was definitely not a kid at Turin.  Nathan was younger at his first Olympics. 

Sky Brown the skateboarder I am talking about suffered an injury with several skull fractures. That is a horrific injury.  

Yes it is heartbreaking which is why they should be stricter with coaches and investigate them. Why is Eteri still allowed at the Olympics? Martha Karolyi can still join another federation and coach gymnastics at the Olympics if she really wanted

Abuse isn't going to stop due to age. Caroline Burckle was 24 when she was sent text messages that were sexually graphic by Bob Bowman and other US Swimming Men National Team Coaches. 

It sounds like to me we are punishing the best athletes due to bad behavior by coaches. If we really want to protect athletes make it 17 or 18 for any athlete to compete at the Olympics. Make it fair. Especially since countries like Russia and China are just going to forge documents to make athletes eligible. 

I know the US Figure Skating doesn't give much money to their athletes like other federations do. So I wonder if he raise the age for the Olympics to 18. How many would actually continue with the sport? I know nothing about Mariah's financial situation, but I am assuming she doesn't have a lot of sponsors. I wonder how many American skaters would be able to afford paying coaches. There isn't a scholarship NCAA option for skaters like other sports have. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by choclatechip45

[ShellsandCheese]

34 minutes ago, izabella said:

All of this drug stuff is confusing for casual fans like me.  If you allow some PED's, but not others, it seems like PEDs are acceptable.  So it's hard to get upset about the illegal ones when you know lots of athletes are using the legal ones and likely very few are competing without having used any PEDs ever.  Either ban them all, or stop pretending that top athletes are in top form without them.

Another way WADA has screwed the pooch but there’s also a lot of politicking involved. But I agree part of the problem with cheating and doping is that the rules are almost too complicated. Drugs should be divided by class and if one drug in that class is banned, they should all be banned. It makes no sense that Kamila was allowed to take two other drugs similar to TMZ that also increase endurance, etc - why weren’t those banned? 

[Ohiopirate02]

29 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

 

I know the US Figure Skating doesn't give much money to their athletes like other federations do. So I wonder if he raise the age for the Olympics to 18. How many would actually continue with the sport? I know nothing about Mariah's financial situation, but I am assuming she doesn't have a lot of sponsors. I wonder how many American skaters would be able to afford paying coaches. There isn't a scholarship NCAA option for skaters like other sports have. 

Raising the age really wouldn't push out that many skaters due to finances.  If that was the case, the competitors in pairs and ice dancing would all be as young as the women competing.  The men also can stay competitive longer.

[absnow54]

9 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Another way WADA has screwed the pooch but there’s also a lot of politicking involved. But I agree part of the problem with cheating and doping is that the rules are almost too complicated. Drugs should be divided by class and if one drug in that class is banned, they should all be banned. It makes no sense that Kamila was allowed to take two other drugs similar to TMZ that also increase endurance, etc - why weren’t those banned? 

I think it's a complex issue, and the media is making it look black and white. L-Carradine, for example, is a supplement often used by vegans and vegetarians because they don't eat meat or enough dairy. There's no concrete evidence that it actually enhances performance, but it's become popular with athlete's because there's speculation that it does, and it's not banned.

Hypoxen, on the other hand, sounds kind of shady, and I suspect it will be banned soon.

[NUguy514]

2 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Also, I feel that it’s very obvious what happened. Valieva has been taking legal (as defined by WADA) drugs and supplements to improve endurance, etc and you know what - it’s fine because they are legal. Someone obviously fucked up in her camp and most likely gave her the TMZ because it’s so similar to the other ones; either not caring that it’s banned or not realizing that it’s banned.

No, the specific mix of these three drugs is what really gives the advantage.  This wasn't a mistake, and I don't understand dismissing it as such.  You don't accidentally give an athlete a banned substance if you're at that elite level.  You do it deliberately because you want your athlete to have an advantage, you coach in a country that has a proud and systemic and basically unpunished doping history, and you believe you can get away with it.  And right now, you are getting away with it.  And even if this specific athlete of yours is eventually stripped of her gold medal, it just means one of the other two athletes you're doping will ascend to that gold.