Figure Skating

[Avaleigh]

It's taken me awhile to process this entire situation. I'm so disappointed that such a bad call has been made. Why would anyone put their kid in a sport that doesn't have a level playing field? A lot of kids are inspired to skate by watching their first Olympics but I can't see a parent getting their kid involved in skating when the sport does nothing to protect its athletes or the overall integrity of the sport.

I feel guilty that part of me still wants to watch but I want to see the other skaters. I think they should still be allowed to have their moments. I want Karen and Mariah to have skates that are even better than what they did at nationals. Alysa has been having solid practices so I'm curious to see if she can rotate her jumps and give the incredible long program that she wasn't able to do at nationals. I want to see if Loena can have a better performance than she did at Europeans. I want to see if Wakaba and You Young hit their triple axels. I want to see Kaori wake the judges up with a leg lift. I want too see who gets fourth, fifth and sixth because that will be the real podium. 

57 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Is there an agency with actual bite that can do something about this? RUSADA's investigation will obviously be, "Did you do it?" and if the answer is "No." it will be a simple case closed. And all I've been seeing is that WADA is severely underfunded, how are they going to pay for a thorough investigation? I understand countries not wanting to boycott the Olympics, because it punishes their athletes, but I wonder how many will boycott World's, since it's a dud during Olympic years anyway. 

I disagree about worlds in an Olympic year being a dud. Olympic year Worlds have brought us so many amazing performances. A lot of redemptive skates, first time medalists or winners because of all the Olympians who choose not to compete.

Off the top of my head I'm thinking of Mao and Daisuke in 2010, Cappellini and Lanotte in 2014, Yuka in 1994, Michelle in 1998, Krylova and Ovsyannikov in 1998, Shen and Zhao's first world title, Ina and Zimmerman's bronze, etc. 

[Rootbeer]

29 minutes ago, MaryMitch said:

One thing I found interesting about Tara and Johnny's comments was they both blamed Kamila Valieva for taking a med that she knew was banned. I don't think they mentioned Eteri by name (although they may have made a glancing comment to "her coaches".  

While they both placed blame on Valieva, they both did it from the perspective of having been competitors at her age.  Tara was 15 when she won the gold and she said that, from early on, she knew about banned substances and was always afraid she'd break a rule.  She even mentioned avoiding things like cold pills because some have banned ingredients, that she had the list and very carefully checked before taking anything, even at 15.  From her point of view, Kamila was more than old  enough to know that there are banned substances and to be very careful before putting anything in her body.  After all, she's been competing and doing drug tests for years.

[sweeks]

3 hours ago, Jillibean said:

I think Evan is friends with and respected by many of these skaters in a way Zachary isn't. Evan hangs out with people playing guitar, and my sense is that he's considered something of a mentor and a leader on Team USA as a veteran who is also clearly A Good Guy. And Zach is Zach. 

I agree with this 100%! Evan does seem to be a genuinely good and well-liked person. The fact that he's been elected team captain of the U.S. Olympic Figure Skating Team twice (2018 and 2022 with Madison Chock) says a lot about him, especially since he was elected by his teammates. Additionally, the fact that he and Chock showed up in 2018 to cheer on the team during the team event even when they weren't competing speaks to their general likeability and willingness to lead. The anemic clapping and response after they were unexpectedly bested by the Shib Sibs for the first time at nationals aside, I definitely haven't seen anything they've done arise to the level of entitlement that we've seen from Hubbell and especially Donahue.

Although I'm not surprised at the IOC being spineless, I am disappointed and angry at the IOC and the ROC/Russia. Their priorities are so skewed, and the fact that they are making a mockery of fair athletic competition and refusing to award any medals if Valieva places in the top three are travesties. I would love for the competitors in the women's competition to boycott, though I also understand why they wouldn't want to. I have been happy to see so many skaters unequivocally decry the ruling, but I fear it will have no effect. I'm done with the Olymmpics for now and perhaps for good.

[wintrygal]

What a joke.. the rest of the competitors are basically just skating for placement value.  Not bad enough that most don't have a chance at the podium but even if some make it there, they won't get their medals?  That's bullshit and is rewarding a cheater.

I watched downhill sledding yesterday, they commented about one Russian woman that she had been caught doping twice!  Yet there she stood!  She didn't medal tho and I was very much cheered by that. 

It's amazing to think of how fast the last four years went, when the French team were declared the winners, it seemed like Scott & Tessa had barely left the rink, time goes so swiftly.  

I wish the other competitors in the womens and pair events well, for what it's worth. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by wintrygal

[Minneapple]

I really really want to have sympathy for Kamila but right now it's hard after reading statements from Tara, Kimmie Meissner and others who competed as young athletes. She either took a banned substance knowingly or now she knows her coach gave it to her. Kamila is 15, not 5, and knows the deal about drug tests. And yeah, the backlash will be more on her than it will be on Eteri because she's the one who took the substance, she's the one performing, she's the one getting the medal. That's just the harsh reality of it, and she's going to have to deal with it. Sorry, you don't get a medal ceremony because you cheated.

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, healthnut said:

I clarified the street rhythms several pages back during the team competition but the rhythm choices included “hip hop, jazz, reggae, reggaeton, blues, funk, swing, krump, popping, or disco.” The midnight blues pattern itself needed to be to music that was 86-90 bpm so it needed to be slower. 

That is the most generous definition of "street rhythms" imaginable.  Of course, as someone else pointed out, most actual street dance wouldn't have translated to the ice anyway, but I'd rather have watched teams try something more adventurous than what most of them did.  Hip hop, reggaeton, krump - all of those could've been really interesting; not necessarily good, but interesting.  At least P&C went with popping, even if the music wasn't the best choice.

 

[choclatechip45]

Richardson also took responsibility for smoking weed and being banned she didn't blame it on anyone lacing something so yeah she has every right to be pissed right now. Same thing with Jessica who sat out because of her cosmetics. 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by choclatechip45

[Jeddah]

7 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I really really want to have sympathy for Kamila but right now it's hard after reading statements from Tara, Kimmie Meissner and others who competed as young athletes. She either took a banned substance knowingly or now she knows her coach gave it to her. Kamila is 15, not 5, and knows the deal about drug tests. And yeah, the backlash will be more on her than it will be on Eteri because she's the one who took the substance, she's the one performing, she's the one getting the medal. That's just the harsh reality of it, and she's going to have to deal with it. Sorry, you don't get a medal ceremony because you cheated.

Since this started other people have had so much more sympathy for Kamila than I do. I definitely think she was pressured. She didn’t go seek out performance enhancing drugs on her own. But that doesn’t change the fact that she knew what she was doing was wrong and she did it anyway.

[healthnut]

 

[Lady Whistleup]

35 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Since this started other people have had so much more sympathy for Kamila than I do. I definitely think she was pressured. She didn’t go seek out performance enhancing drugs on her own. But that doesn’t change the fact that she knew what she was doing was wrong and she did it anyway.

State sponsored doping is very different though. The East German women had no idea what they were taking.

[blackwing]

4 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

State sponsored doping is very different though. The East German women had no idea what they were taking.

I think that's the point... these athletes that are from countries where state sponsored doping was prevalent and forced have been indoctrinated for years to just eat/drink/do whatever the coaches tell them to do.

Maybe the IOC should do a comprehensive examination of the countries that have state sponsored doping and then hand out sanctions and deny them the ability to compete.  Then maybe this would put an end to this system and make things fair for everyone else competing against them.  OH WAIT.

[lurkerbee]

More from Adam Rippon:

 

[BitterApple]

Well said, Adam.

What pisses me off more than anything is the IOC not having a medal ceremony for the teams. So you have all these athletes who've spent years working their asses off only to be robbed of their chance to stand on the podium? That is insane. At this point, fuck it. Why even have the team event at all? As long as Eteri's little dopers are competing, no other country has a chance. 

 

[choclatechip45]

Adam is right. I saw Mariah posted the USOPC statement. 

[HartofDixie]

 

[jrzy]

15 hours ago, GeminiDancer said:

What??? Cizeron doesn't have the "look"? What kind of look do they want? Donahue?

I think Cizeron is just fabulous!  What on earth are they looking for?

 

[ChicksDigScars]

6 minutes ago, jrzy said:

I think Cizeron is just fabulous!  What on earth are they looking for?

 

I think we know what "the look" is code for. So, yeah. They want a Zach Donohue. Tall, decent looking, and douchetastically straight (basically willing to wear a "I bang chicks" t-shirt to the practice rink). 

 

[Jess14]

2 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Even if she inadvertently consumed something, how does that make it ok?  If she accidentally drank tainted water that just happened to help her performance, then, her performance was not legit.  I don't see how it matters whether it was her grandfather's med (it wasn't, of course) or given to her by her coaches, it potentially helped her win and that is not fair and she should be stripped of her Russian and European titles and sent home without competing.

Right. It seems like a lot of Russian fans are trying hard to compare this to the Andrea Raducan situation from 2000, where Raducan was stripped of her All-Around gold, but got to keep her other medals from the Olympics. Therefore, they’re claiming that Valieva, who id also young, should still get to compete bc her Beijing samples have been clean. However, outside of the young ages of the athletes, the situations aren’t that similar.

There is a legitimate reason why a 16 year old would take a Sudafed (a cold), and the team doctor admitted giving it to her. Also, my understanding is that the substance that Raducan tested positive for is banned on the day of competition, not at all times. Raducan had not taken it on the day of the other competitions. Here, there is no legitimate reason (outside of doping) for a healthy 15 year old girl to be taking that drug, and it is banned in and out competition, so it doesn’t matter if Valieva stopped using it once she got to the Olympics. It’s not the same situation. I’m curious if there is any previous example of an athlete testing positive for a substance banned at all times and only being suspended for a day… It’s rather absurd.

[DawnDavenport]

18 minutes ago, jrzy said:

I think Cizeron is just fabulous!  What on earth are they looking for?

 

A straight white male (or a gay one that's still in the closet).

[Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, Jess14 said:

. I’m curious if there is any previous example of an athlete testing positive for a substance banned at all times and only being suspended for a day… It’s rather absurd.

Not just suspended for a day, but a day on which there was no competition and then reinstated just in time to continue practicing for the next competition.

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

Since this started other people have had so much more sympathy for Kamila than I do. I definitely think she was pressured. She didn’t go seek out performance enhancing drugs on her own. But that doesn’t change the fact that she knew what she was doing was wrong and she did it anyway.

See, I'm unsure about whether or not she actually had knowledge that she was taking banned substances. Even if she did know, I doubt she has much choice or say in anything that she does so she probably felt like she couldn't say no.

Also, I don't know how they're spinning it to her but I'm getting the impression that they're making her out to be someone who is being victimized by everyone but Team Eteri and Russia. Maybe she's deluded enough to think that Team Eteri genuinely care for her and have her best interests at heart? I don't think she sees Eteri in the sinister way that we do. Obviously I have no idea, but I think there's a real possibility that she had no idea about the PEDs and that they've told her something along the lines of 'People are jealous of you, they don't want to see you win so they tampered with your test. We don't have the proof so we're going to get our lawyers to do everything they can to protect you. Don't worry, these people aren't going to keep you from realizing your dream.' 

Honestly, it kind of reminds me of being in a cult.

[Minneapple]

Kamila has spoken, a video was posted to Instagram and this is the apparent translation of what she said.

Quote

These days were very difficult for me, and there’re already not enough emotions. That is, I am happy, but at the same time I am already emotionally tired. Therefore, tears of happiness, probably, and a little distress. But at the same time, I am certainly happy to be at the Olympic Games and try to represent our country. And I will hope that I will do it as best as possible … I will set myself up and show my results.

I sat for seven hours [at hearings of the case], we had one break of 20 minutes, and I sat watching. It was very difficult. Apparently, this is one of the stages that I have to go through.

When I open Instagram, I see how many good wishes, how much faith. I even saw billboards in Moscow “Kamila, we are with you!”. It is very nice. In such a difficult time for me, this support is very important to me.

The coaches support me, the whole environment supports me. Mark (Kondratiuk) also supports – it’s good that he stayed (in Beijing). I thought I would be alone, but the closest people will never leave me.

 

Funny thing, she's not representing "our country," she's representing the Russian Olympic Committee because "our country" engaged in state-sponsored doping and it looks like they still are engaging in state-sponsored doping. And I'm so sorry that this is a difficult time for you. The skaters who competed against you without cheating must feel great!

I can't figure out if she's a moron or if she's just all Russia brainwashed. I want to feel bad for her, I really do, but it's getting harder.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Minneapple

[Jillibean]

I completely agree that the IOC is spineless--just look at the Peng Shui situation--but to my understanding they don't WANT Kamila skating and were among the organizations suing to try to prevent it. It was the Court of Arbitration for Sport that decided she can compete--are they somehow affiliated with the IOC? My thought was that if the IOC was pleading a case before them, they had to be an independent entity of some kind? What I really don't understand is why the organization presiding over international figure skating doesn't have authority. It makes absolutely no sense to me that Russia would have full authority to determine who is and isn't eligible to compete based on rules infractions, especially in an event they're technically not even allowed to be a part of. I would love any further clarification or insight on why this isn't someone else's jurisdiction, if anyone has it. SHOULD it be the IOC's jurisdiction? From the way they're acting, it seems like their hands are truly tied. 

Also, to what extent is this happening because the timing meant the B sample couldn't be tested?

The medal ceremony decision is absolutely heartbreaking and terrible and I'm glad to hear the US is pushing to have it. But I also can't blame the IOC for basically refusing too hand Kamila Valieva a gold medal, which appears to be the only thing they can now do to protest this situation. 

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

This is why Russia should be banned from the Olympics completely.  I still don't understand how Russia the country can get banned but they still get to compete as ROC.  That doesn't make sense.  If the country was banned because of state-sponsored systemic doping but they don't want to punish the individual clean athletes, then those individual clean athletes should all have to compete as independents.  Just like those refugee athletes who compete under the Olympic flag.  These Russian athletes shouldn't be able to use a ROC name and Russian colours AT ALL.

I have also never understood why the ROC is able to participate in the team event and I feel strongly that they should not be. If you don't have a country, why are you allowed to put together a team? This would actually be a strong punishment because you take yourself out of a LOT of medal opportunities if athletes can only compete as individuals.

 

1 hour ago, sweeks said:

Additionally, the fact that he and Chock showed up in 2018 to cheer on the team during the team event even when they weren't competing speaks to their general likeability and willingness to lead. 

Chock and Bates actually started the whole "let's show up and cheer even though we're not on the team" dynamic back in Sochi, when they showed up in the team box for the very first team event. Others who came in 2018 were following their original example. They're amazing sportsmen. I would love to see them get their medal. 

[Rootbeer]

Interesting stuff on Wikipedia.  Take a look at the Tokyo Olympics in 2020.  Look at how many athletes were forced to withdraw due to out of competition use of banned substances.  Note that at least 2 were pulled out of semi-finals, meaning they had already started competing, but were sent home anyway.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Olympic_Games#:~:text=The first Olympic athlete to test positive for,alcohol use%2C "two beers" to steady his nerves.

Note how many were allowed to compete despite a positive test outside of competition.  It is a very short list, so short it is invisible because it never happened.  Until now.

[Rootbeer]

14 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

See, I'm unsure about whether or not she actually had knowledge that she was taking banned substances. Even if she did know, I doubt she has much choice or say in anything that she does so she probably felt like she couldn't say no.

Even if she didn't know exactly what she was taking, every single athlete taking part in these international competitions is given a book of rules of the sport in their own language.  Not sure if it was online or a hard copy.  And every athlete who participates is required to sign an affidavit agreeing to follow those rules.  As we say in the US, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

I do not doubt that Kamila has a very regimented life and very little autonomy in decisions pertaining to her training and competitions.  Or anything else for that matter.  And, if she complains, there are probably unpleasant consequences for her.  That's a shame, but the rules are the rules.  I do agree that she has spent a long time in a system where compliance with those in charge was the best option for a kid like her, but it doesn't change the fact that she agreed to follow the rules and then didn't.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Rootbeer

[BlackberryJam]

There is a good chance Kamila is receiving no education, no schooling at all. Training for ten to twelve hours a day does not leave her a lot of time to hit the books. She's likely not educated for her age level. That's tragic.

At the same time, if we are going to make athletes sign these affidavits and send them this documentation, we have to hold them accountable.

Edited February 14, 2022 by BlackberryJam

[choclatechip45]

I remember when Christine was asking all the figure skaters this season minus minors about China Human Rights Abuses Evan said he was speaking on behalf of the team. When Peng Shuai situation happened and Christine followed up with Evan, Nathan and Vincent since those three were the only ones who did not decline to comment. Evan declined but then said he was speaking on behalf of him and Maddie saying it was well known how both have them felt on the situation. 

Seems like both of them are very well respected by their fellow skaters. 

[sweeks]

15 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

Chock and Bates actually started the whole "let's show up and cheer even though we're not on the team" dynamic back in Sochi, when they showed up in the team box for the very first team event. Others who came in 2018 were following their original example. They're amazing sportsmen. I would love to see them get their medal. 

I didn't know this, but it makes me admire them even more. I want to see them get their team medel properly (I will never not be bitter over this), and I hope they go to worlds and dominate.

[choclatechip45]

Just now, BlackberryJam said:

There is a good chance Kamila is receiving no education, no schooling at all. Training for ten to twelve hours a day does not leave her a lot of time to hit the books. She's likely not educated for her age level. That's tragic.

At the same time, if we are going to make athletes sign these affidavits and send them this documentation, we have to hold them accountable.

Yeah I think you see this in the US as well with some of our skaters. Did Tara ever go to school?

Just now, sweeks said:

I didn't know this, but it makes me admire them even more. I want to see them get their team medel properly (I will never not be bitter over this), and I hope they go to worlds and dominate.

Me neither, but makes me respect them as well. 

[Mirabelle]

4 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Yeah I think you see this in the US as well with some of our skaters. Did Tara ever go to school?

Me neither, but makes me respect them as well. 

I think a lot of skaters did correspondence classes which was the 90s version of online classes. I think most of them at least get their high school diplomas or get the GED. A fair number of them have also gone on to college.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Mirabelle

[Avaleigh]

9 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Even if she didn't know exactly what she was taking, every single athlete taking part in these international competitions is given a book of rules of the sport in their own language.  Not sure if it was online or a hard copy.  And every athlete who participates is required to sign an affidavit agreeing to follow those rules.  As we say in the US, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

I do not doubt that Kamila has a very regimented life and very little autonomy in decisions pertaining to her training and competitions.  Or anything else for that matter.  And, if she complains, there are probably unpleasant consequences for her.  That's a shame, but the rules are the rules.  I do agree that she has spent a long time in a system where compliance with those in charge was the best option for a kid like her, but it doesn't change the fact that she agreed to follow the rules and then didn't.

We're in agreement on all of this. I think though from her perspective (assuming that she genuinely didn't know) she probably thought that she was following the rules. What I'm unclear about is if she deliberately and consciously broke the rules. We don't know how the drug was administered. Sometimes with state sponsored doping it can be done without the athlete knowing.

If she knowingly and willingly participated in taking the drug then I agree that 15 is old enough to know that what she was doing is wrong.

[galaxygirl76]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

State sponsored doping is very different though. The East German women had no idea what they were taking.

I read a story recently of a female DDR track athlete who in her late teens was given tablets that her coach said were 'vitamins' that would help her get better at her event. She started to have the stereotypical steroid use side effects like growing a mustache and her period stopped. That freaked her out and she stopped taking her 'vitamins'. Then one day the secret police shows up and interrogates her on why she's not taking the 'vitamins' her coach told her to take. State sponsored doping is fucked up.

[CherryMalotte]

48 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I can't figure out if she's a moron or if she's just all Russia brainwashed. I want to feel bad for her, I really do, but it's getting harder.

Both.  Brainwashed and cowed by Eteri and the various surrounding minions and officials for Not Russia, and being fifteen.  Fifteen is so different than eighteen, and even your early into mid twenties.  We are all pretty silly at that age, until life cooks us up a bit.

The IOC is just freaking useless.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by CherryMalotte
ugh, don't know why I said 'seasons' I'm not a Duggar

[annzeepark914]

Well, I initially said I was done with the 2022 O's. But I thought...why deprive myself of watching my favorite sport? So, I'll continue watching Olympic skating this week, but will take my refrigerator breaks while the ROC-ers are on the ice. This letting Russia send athletes to the O's, despite being continually caught cheating, has removed my interest in the Olympics. 

[CountryGirl]

Full commentary from Tara and Johnny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU9KpsLYsSg

I am just so angry about all of this. How unfair to the other athletes, who are clean. Figure skating is my favorite sport that I follow, next to tennis, and now it all feels tainted. Shame on the Russians involved and the IOC for kowtowing to them, instead of taking a stand and doing what is right. 

[absnow54]

49 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

What I really don't understand is why the organization presiding over international figure skating doesn't have authority. It makes absolutely no sense to me that Russia would have full authority to determine who is and isn't eligible to compete based on rules infractions, especially in an event they're technically not even allowed to be a part of. I would love any further clarification or insight on why this isn't someone else's jurisdiction, if anyone has it. SHOULD it be the IOC's jurisdiction? From the way they're acting, it seems like their hands are truly tied. 

This is what's so mind boggling to me, but also what the arbitration with the CAS was for. RUSADA set the terms of her provisional suspension, WADA disagreed with it, it went to the CAS for a hearing, and they said lifting the suspension was fine. Given Russia's standing with the IOC, I don't understand why WADA didn't set the terms of the provisional suspension for RUSADA to challenge. IOC and WADA should have been playing defense and not the other way around.

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Mirabelle said:

I think a lot of skaters did correspondence classes which was the 90s version of online classes. I think most of them at least get their high school diplomas or get the GED. A fair number of them have also gone on to college.

Many of the elite skaters do have tutors or only attend school part time during skating season, but most get at least a GED and US skaters are known to have gone to Ivy League schools, etc.

Nathan Chen was enrolled at Yale, Vincent Zhou at Brown, Jason Brown attended the University of Colorado (don't know if he graduated).  Mariah Bell graduated from a regular US high school. Madison Hubbell graduated from regular high school and attended college.  Evan Bates has a degree from the University of Michigan,

Alyssa Liu is attending high school online, the same program used by Vincent Zhou and Karen Chen and is supposed to graduate this spring at the age of 16, so she must be doing ok, too.

As far as older skaters, Paul Wylie has an MBA from Harvard.  Michelle Kwan graduated from a regular high school and got a college degree and a postgraduate degree in International Relations from Tufts.  She is currently US ambassador to Belize.  Johnny Weir graduated from a public high school and attended some college.

Most US figure skaters have at the very least finished high school.  Of course, none of them were spending 12 hours a day training at the age of 15 as Eteri's girls do.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Rootbeer

[galaxygirl76]

The thing that I can't get past is that all the other skaters are getting punished here by not being able to celebrate any medals won by having a medal ceremony, while the Russians get to do whatever the fuck they apparently want.

[Rootbeer]

3 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

The thing that I can't get past is that all the other skaters are getting punished here by not being able to celebrate any medals won by having a medal ceremony, while the Russians get to do whatever the fuck they apparently want.

Yes, it seems that everyone but the Russians is facing consequences for competing in the same Olympics as a cheater.

[Jeddah]

4 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

The thing that I can't get past is that all the other skaters are getting punished here by not being able to celebrate any medals won by having a medal ceremony, while the Russians get to do whatever the fuck they apparently want.

I was so sad for Vincent that he was going to miss the medal ceremony. I didn’t expect for all of them to miss the medal ceremony!

[absnow54]

7 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I was so sad for Vincent that he was going to miss the medal ceremony. I didn’t expect for all of them to miss the medal ceremony!

Whatever happened to Vincent? Did he ever make it out of isolation? He hasn't posted anything since his Instagram video announcing he had to withdraw.

[backgroundnoise]

I'm fine with having no medal ceremonies.  I think it will help keep the pressure on to complete the investigation.  If medals are awarded, then a feeling of what-evs may ensue.  The athletes will know how they placed and can take pride in that.  Why would going through a sham ceremony be of anyone's benefit?  YMMV.

[Avaleigh]

29 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Many of the elite skaters do have tutors or only attend school part time during skating season, but most get at least a GED and US skaters are known to have gone to Ivy League schools, etc.

Nathan Chen was enrolled at Yale, Vincent Zhou at Brown, Jason Brown attended the University of Colorado (don't know if he graduated).  Mariah Bell graduated from a regular US high school. Madison Hubbell graduated from regular high school and attended college.  Evan Bates has a degree from the University of Michigan,

As far as older skaters, Paul Wylie has an MBA from Harvard.  Michelle Kwan graduated from a regular high school and got a college degree and a postgraduate degree in International Relations from Tufts.  She is currently US ambassador to Belize.  Johnny Weir graduated from a public high school and attended some college.

Most US figure skaters have at the very least finished high school.  Of course, none of them were spending 12 hours a day training at the age of 15 as Eteri's girls do.

Quick note on Michelle---yes, she graduated from a "regular" high school but for the most part she didn't do in person classes and hadn't since she was about 11. Her entire youth was dedicated to skating. She had all of her triples by the time she was 11 and was competing as a senior by 12. By 13 she was constantly traveling and living the life of an elite figure skater. Same with Tara.

A lot of elite skaters past and present didn't/don't do in person learning so that they can put in more hours training. Obviously though this doesn't compare to how it is for athletes in Russia. They take it to the extreme

[OnePlusOne]

I agree that it's sad that, thanks to Team Russia's bullshit behavior, the rest of the athletes will not get to experience a medal ceremony. However, someone on Twitter made a good point that, if they hold the medal ceremony and include Kamila, Russia/Eteri would probably use images of her/the team with "their' medals to boost a propaganda narrative of the IOC being meanies to Kamila for taking away "her" medal. So while it sucks, the only way to ensure that doesn't happen is to eliminate the medal ceremony altogether.  At least it shows that the IOC absolutely does not want to award her a medal (although, really, the provision should've applied to all ROC ladies, since they're coached by Eteri and probably doping, too).

[redpencil]

 

1 hour ago, Jillibean said:

I completely agree that the IOC is spineless--just look at the Peng Shui situation--but to my understanding they don't WANT Kamila skating and were among the organizations suing to try to prevent it. It was the Court of Arbitration for Sport that decided she can compete--are they somehow affiliated with the IOC? My thought was that if the IOC was pleading a case before them, they had to be an independent entity of some kind? What I really don't understand is why the organization presiding over international figure skating doesn't have authority. It makes absolutely no sense to me that Russia would have full authority to determine who is and isn't eligible to compete based on rules infractions, especially in an event they're technically not even allowed to be a part of. I would love any further clarification or insight on why this isn't someone else's jurisdiction, if anyone has it. SHOULD it be the IOC's jurisdiction? From the way they're acting, it seems like their hands are truly tied. 

Also, to what extent is this happening because the timing meant the B sample couldn't be tested?

The medal ceremony decision is absolutely heartbreaking and terrible and I'm glad to hear the US is pushing to have it. But I also can't blame the IOC for basically refusing too hand Kamila Valieva a gold medal, which appears to be the only thing they can now do to protest this situation. 

I have also never understood why the ROC is able to participate in the team event and I feel strongly that they should not be. If you don't have a country, why are you allowed to put together a team? This would actually be a strong punishment because you take yourself out of a LOT of medal opportunities if athletes can only compete as individuals.

Yeah, this was all on the CAS, who really screwed the IOC and ISU over. CAS is basically the highest body in sports matters, completely independent, and other organizations all agree to abide by their rulings, like it or not. The IOC would love nothing more than for Valieva to be suspended right now (as evidenced by their refusal to have a medal ceremony if she's on the podium), but they have no say in the matter at this point. Having said that, had Russia been given a real penalty to begin with after Sochi, maybe we wouldn't be here now (though I think there have been other Russia-related rulings by CAS that also went Russia's way, not sure).

As for the medal ceremonies, I do hope the US and Japan push to have a ceremony for team silver/bronze. That would leave out Canada should they end up with medals down the line, but not sure what can be done about that. For ladies, I don't blame IOC one bit for refusing to have a medal ceremony if she's on the podium. Sad for other skaters (at least if any non-Russians eke into a medal), but I don't think I'd want to participate in a sham ceremony, as others have called it.

[Jeddah]

4 minutes ago, OnePlusOne said:

I agree that it's sad that, thanks to Team Russia's bullshit behavior, the rest of the athletes will not get to experience a medal ceremony. However, someone on Twitter made a good point that, if they hold the medal ceremony and include Kamila, Russia/Eteri would probably use images of her/the team with "their' medals to boost a propaganda narrative of the IOC being meanies to Kamila for taking away "her" medal. So while it sucks, the only way to ensure that doesn't happen is to eliminate the medal ceremony altogether.  At least it shows that the IOC absolutely does not want to award her a medal (although, really, the provision should've applied to all ROC ladies, since they're coached by Eteri and probably doping, 

10 minutes ago, backgroundnoise said:

I'm fine with having no medal ceremonies.  I think it will help keep the pressure on to complete the investigation.  If medals are awarded, then a feeling of what-evs may ensue.  The athletes will know how they placed and can take pride in that.  Why would going through a sham ceremony be of anyone's benefit?  YMMV.

I guess what I really want is for there to be a medal ceremony where the US gets the gold!

Or a medal ceremony where the US and Japan get their medals, with nobody on top of the podium.

[absnow54]

2 minutes ago, OnePlusOne said:

I agree that it's sad that, thanks to Team Russia's bullshit behavior, the rest of the athletes will not get to experience a medal ceremony. However, someone on Twitter made a good point that, if they hold the medal ceremony and include Kamila, Russia/Eteri would probably use images of her/the team with "their' medals to boost a propaganda narrative of the IOC being meanies to Kamila for taking away "her" medal. So while it sucks, the only way to ensure that doesn't happen is to eliminate the medal ceremony altogether. 

The podium doesn't have to be full to have a medal ceremony. US stands on step 2, Japan stands on step 3, and step 1 remains empty. They play the Olympic theme, and raise the Olympic flag in place of whatever they're using for Russian athletes. 

[redpencil]

5 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Or a medal ceremony where the US and Japan get their medals, with nobody on top of the podium.

I would hope that's what the US is pushing for. Just the US and Japan getting silver and bronze. No gold given out.

[Jeddah]

35 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Whatever happened to Vincent? Did he ever make it out of isolation? He hasn't posted anything since his Instagram video announcing he had to withdraw.

I was wondering this too. Is he okay? Did he stay asymptomatic, or did he get sick? If he is asymptomatic, when can he leave quarantine?

[HartofDixie]

23 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I was wondering this too. Is he okay? Did he stay asymptomatic, or did he get sick? If he is asymptomatic, when can he leave quarantine?

It’s been about a week since he tested positive so he’s got 3 days of quarantine left. He did get invited to skate in the gala.