S01.E10: Sic Transit Gloria Mundi

[Cinnabon]

5 hours ago, Tatum said:

This is probably a total reach, and I am guessing the writers are treating freezing to death like carbon monoxide poisoning- you just lose consciousness and die before you can regain it- but it is possible that Jackie did not freeze to death? As in, she was killed another way?

The actress who plays Lottie actually gave away the freezing death in an interview after last week’s show. I don’t think anyone (including me) caught on.

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Especially after Jackie left her for dead when they were escaping the crashed plane. 

I also remember how soon after that, when they're looking for alcohol to disinfect something and they ask Nat if she brought any, Van pulls some skin antiseptic or something out of a bag and asks if that will work. Jackie starts to snap," Hey, that's my bag!" Then she sees it's Van and shuts up.

But it seemed important not just to show that things were now awkward between Jackie and Van (after the whole "leave her to roast alive" thing...) but that even then Jackie was still instinctively indignant over somebody going through her bag when they were searching for stuff they needed.

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

They haven't even started writing season 2 yet so it's gonna be awhile. At least a year probably.

The creators said in the Vulture article that they hoped to have Season 2 airing by the end of this year. 

[WaltersHair]

I truly hope this doesn't go the way of Westworld. First season was epic and then every season afterward was a shadow of the one before. AND we had to wait for it. I understand another season is coming.

[Black Knight]

7 hours ago, snarts said:

It does strike me as odd that coach, just by nature of his position/relationship, wouldn't be more forceful in trying to keep the peace. Or, at the very least, keep everyone safe & alive. Especially since he's the only adult present.

By this point in time he has lost his authority. The turning point was when Laura Lee announced her plan to fly the plane and he forbade it, which was met with a bunch of cold death stares from all of the girls and Laura Lee asking how he was going to stop her. He had no answer to that. He was reduced to begging Laura Lee when she actually got in the plane not to go through with it, and obviously she didn't listen to him then either.

His age hurts him to a degree; he doesn't have the same age gap from them that the deceased Coach Martinez did. He's closer to being a peer of theirs than he is to being a father figure. But also, his leg's been chopped off and he requires help and care as a result, and while he had useful knowledge about animals and the woods and shooting, it's long since been exhausted.

6 hours ago, braziliangirl said:

I like both of them (Jackie and Shauna) and think they were both right and wrong in the discussion. Jackie didn't have a clue or wasn't worried about what Shuauna wanted (for example: deciding what their room colors would be. She wasn't asking Shauna what she thought about it,- she was telling her how it would be) and Shauna lied and didn't want to take responsability for her affair with Jeff (even if she really did like him and it wasn't only to spite Jackie) ror that maybe she was going to Brown (though this was only implied in the show.).

Shauna applied early decision to Brown. When you apply early decision, you are committing to attend the college if they accept you. That's the entire point of the existence of the early decision system; it's why colleges agree to evaluate students' applications early.

Jackie did have a tendency to tell Shauna what to do. But I read a recapper of this show that reminded me of something important though: When Shauna would push back, Jackie would usually back off. And in the incident mentioned upthread where Jackie was upset with Shauna for voting to go to the lake and started giving Mari her attention, she dropped the attitude immediately once Shauna said she was scared and needed her best friend. So even though she certainly tried to mold Shauna, she wasn't an absolute control freak who had to have obedience either. It is valid to say that Shauna shouldn't always be in a position of having to push back. But Shauna also knew what she was getting with Jackie. And maybe if she'd pushed back more often, Jackie wouldn't have told her what to do so much. I think Shauna went along with it because part of her wanted to be Jackie.

In a nutshell: They both played a large part in why their dynamic was the way it was. I noticed in their fight Jackie didn't challenge the idea that she told Shauna what to do constantly. She was aware of that. She did challenge the idea that she forced Shauna, and she was right in that - that's a story Shauna likes to tell herself, because then she doesn't have to take responsibility. It's interesting to see how similar her attitude is about nearly cutting Travis's throat as it is 25 years later about murdering Adam, like this is something that just happened to Shauna, as opposed to her being an active player.

[Dewey Decimate]

7 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Can the show please sell Misty's "Don't Ruffle My Feathers" tote? Because I'd give my right arm for one.

I LOVED that bag!! Even more since taking the quiz in the Media thread and getting Misty as my spirit animal. (Despite the fact that her destruction of the black box was horrific and the cause of all bad, I greatly enjoy the rest of her psycho antics.) I was disturbingly happy to see that she didn't let the reporter get away, though curious about how Misty knew the reporter would demand the cigs. Or was it a morality test, like if she takes them she'll get what she deserves? Misty has a cute front yard garden; I want to think my girl's got some castor beans growing in there, poppies, datura...

Realized tonight that Shauna and Misty both have "kids" named Callie(gula). Not sure which one has more fucked up parents at this point.

Great acting in this ep. Teen Shauna's mourning Jackie was superb, but Juliette Lewis was the mvp for her almost-suicide scene. And her reunion dress was gorgeous. Making your slow-mo group entrance to The Offspring is a baller move. I was totally rooting for them at that moment.

RIP Biscuit. We knew it was coming, but damn, poor little guy. And RIP to that beautiful cgi bear as well.

[Black Knight]

7 minutes ago, Dewey Decimate said:

I was disturbingly happy to see that she didn't let the reporter get away, though curious about how Misty knew the reporter would demand the cigs.

Addiction. Jessica was an active smoker who hadn't been trying to quit. For an active smoker like that, deprived of cigarettes for days, the first thing they'd want to do is light up. (Especially after having been in this stressful situation.)

I did not think Misty was going to just let Jessica go, but I was expecting she would have messed with the car somehow, since messing with cars is also an established m.o. for her.

It's interesting that for someone who was established so early as a sadist and probable psychopath, the show waited a full season before showing her killing a human. Jessica's murder is crucial in that it shows Misty isn't so desperate to bond with a human that she can be fooled that way, not anymore. Not since Coach Ben. She did learn some lessons from that. She is happy to go along with people telling her what she wants to hear, but she still understands it is just that, people telling her what she wants to hear.

I also think it's interesting the way Misty sits on information. She's known for a little while now that Jessica was hired by Taissa, but she has not told Nat or Shauna that. She hasn't even told Taissa that she knows. Adult Misty is a much craftier operator than Teen Misty.

[Cinnabon]

27 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Addiction. Jessica was an active smoker who hadn't been trying to quit. For an active smoker like that, deprived of cigarettes for days, the first thing they'd want to do is light up. (Especially after having been in this stressful situation.)

I did not think Misty was going to just let Jessica go, but I was expecting she would have messed with the car somehow, since messing with cars is also an established m.o. for her.

It's interesting that for someone who was established so early as a sadist and probable psychopath, the show waited a full season before showing her killing a human. Jessica's murder is crucial in that it shows Misty isn't so desperate to bond with a human that she can be fooled that way, not anymore. Not since Coach Ben. She did learn some lessons from that. She is happy to go along with people telling her what she wants to hear, but she still understands it is just that, people telling her what she wants to hear.

I also think it's interesting the way Misty sits on information. She's known for a little while now that Jessica was hired by Taissa, but she has not told Nat or Shauna that. She hasn't even told Taissa that she knows. Adult Misty is a much craftier operator than Teen Misty.

She truly is a psychopath. I don’t think anyone ever found out about her destroying the black box. I doubt they would ever have talked to her again if they knew. She is the one ultimately responsible for all deaths following the plane crash. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Pop Tart]

23 hours ago, Kristi800 said:

There was no way that Misty was going to let Jessica go, but expected an explosion, but knew that would be too much attention. Probably some digitalis from someone's medicine cup - the woman who died from a stroke?  

Misty did warn her that smoking was bad for her (would kill her?). Misty had thrown the cigarettes away and seemed to be trying to give her a fighting chance. So if Jessica hadn’t insisted on having her cigarettes back, she wouldn’t have passed out and crashed.

I’m not sure Jessica is dead, but say she is because of what Misty put in the cigs. What was Misty’s plan if she hadn’t asked for her cigarettes? 

[Bulldog]

Did Shauna really just use a regular old kitchen electric knife to cut up the body? 

How did Misty get the body parts in the coffin?  She couldn't have put them in there during the viewing. 

The CGI for the bear was very bad. 

I've seen a lot of suggestions of casting Liv Tyler as the adult Lottie.  I didn't like her at all on 911 Lonestar, but I could actually see that working.   

[endure]

That Misty is such an efficient, officious terrorist…… and who were those masked men?

[Chaos Theory]

You can do a lot of armchair coulda shoulda woulda about what these girls should have done but they are suburban girls without much (if any) woodland training.  I think they did make attempts to escape on their own.  The airplane….plus the episode with the compass.   But they also have only one gun and one knife and one person who knows what plants are safe to eat….and that person is Misty.     So either they would all have to travel together which means the injured like the coach or split the only two weapons of survival which cuts the survival of both in half.     I think it eventually just came down to a roll of the dice.  Do you stay in a cabin which gives some protection against the elements or risk running into the elements from a bunch of teenage girls with at this point zero survival skills.  

Edited January 18, 2022 by Chaos Theory

[Tatum]

9 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Addiction. Jessica was an active smoker who hadn't been trying to quit. For an active smoker like that, deprived of cigarettes for days, the first thing they'd want to do is light up. (Especially after having been in this stressful situation.)

I did not think Misty was going to just let Jessica go, but I was expecting she would have messed with the car somehow, since messing with cars is also an established m.o. for her.

It's interesting that for someone who was established so early as a sadist and probable psychopath, the show waited a full season before showing her killing a human. Jessica's murder is crucial in that it shows Misty isn't so desperate to bond with a human that she can be fooled that way, not anymore. Not since Coach Ben. She did learn some lessons from that. She is happy to go along with people telling her what she wants to hear, but she still understands it is just that, people telling her what she wants to hear.

I also think it's interesting the way Misty sits on information. She's known for a little while now that Jessica was hired by Taissa, but she has not told Nat or Shauna that. She hasn't even told Taissa that she knows. Adult Misty is a much craftier operator than Teen Misty.

I get the addiction thing, but it was still quite the roll of the dice. The situation would have been out of Misty's control the minute Jessica was on the main level...then again, knowing Misty, we can probably assume she had a backup plan we just didn't get to see since Plan A was ultimately successful.

 

Good point about Misty. Jessica played her hand as well as she could have, but ultimately, Misty doesn't need Jessica, either to sell her story, or as a companion.

 

That would be hilarious if Shauna found out about Jessica's true motive in trying to interview her and got mad at Taissa. Um, Shauna, you aren't exactly trustworthy here. You can hardly blame Tai for not trusting you.

[TVMovieBuff]

10 hours ago, Bulldog said:

How did Misty get the body parts in the coffin?  She couldn't have put them in there during the viewing. 

You just cleared something up for me. I'm so duh sometimes. Other times so sharp. Oh well. That is a good question. Funerals I have been to, the FD never leaves the coffin once the viewing has started. For this very reason I am sure. 

Misty has no friends, no one who wants to do her a favor. The only possibility is she has dirt on someone, who will do her bidding to appease her. 

18 hours ago, izabella said:

They were so unperturbed by what Shauna was doing while they were talking. 

They were just distracting themselves. 

[TVMovieBuff]

Don't be shocked at anything a bunch of teenagers do. They are a bunch of crazy creepy diabolical people. 

So are adults. 

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

But they also have only one gun and one knife and one person who knows what plants are safe to eat….and that person is Misty.    

Nitpick, but I think the person who knows what plants to eat is Akilah. Which I mention not to disagree with your general point, but just to say I like how they've spread some skills around so that Misty wasn't champion survival skill girl everyone had to depend on for everything. She's learning about plants too, obviously, because that's all too relevant to their interests, but it's nice how Misty became another member of the group pretty quickly instead of always being the superstar. It's surprising, in fact, that they didn't even rely on her to sew up Van's face despite her being the one with the medical training, such as it is. (Pretty obvious why nobody would want Misty sewing up their face if they could help it!)

[BitterApple]

 

51 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

 She's learning about plants too, obviously, because that's all too relevant to their interests, but it's nice how Misty became another member of the group pretty quickly instead of always being the superstar. 

I loved when Mari snapped at her to back off. At this point, the extent of Misty's medical knowledge is a babysitter's first aid class. It's not like she has a year of medical school under her belt. She might know the basics of wound care, but she's no more qualified to do stitches than anyone else. If Akilah did needlework or sewing as part of her Girl Scout experience, she'd be the better option. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by BitterApple

[Tatum]

Just now, BitterApple said:

If Akilah did needlework or sewing as part of her Girl Scout experience, she'd be the better option. 

Yeah, remember the doctor from Lost said anyone who could do basic stitch work would be fine to sew someone up :).

[BitterApple]

1 minute ago, Tatum said:

Yeah, remember the doctor from Lost said anyone who could do basic stitch work would be fine to sew someone up :).

Yes! Kate had to sew up Jack!

[tennisgurl]

Well I guess that's how you set up for a few seasons! I am not sure how I feel about the mountain cult apparently still being active in the present, but I am interested in where its all going. A LOT went down in this finale, I expected Jackie to be dead but I didn't think that she would die like that, freezing to death after storming out of the cabin when it became clear that the other survivors were turning on her and having a fight with Shauna. But of course, the big reveal is that Lottie could still be alive and still running her cult, who are now operating outside of the mountain. I don't want this show to be consumed with a cult conspiracy in the modern timeline, but I am also really interested in what it all means. I thought that was actually a pretty solid finale, giving us some answers while also adding a lot of new questions, it sure made me excited to see the next season! 

I know that Lottie is emerging as the shows big bad, but I think Ali wins for most punchable person of the episode. You know that she has been milking that "It could have been me!" bit since she was in high school, she's clearly one of those annoying people that take their tenuous connections to tragedies and make it all about them, not about the people that actually died or went through something traumatic, as a way to get attention. Why was she even at this reunion? She wasn't even in their class, she was a freshmen while most of the main cast were seniors! Then not even giving the actual survivors a heads up before making a whole memorial for the team and putting Shauna on the spot, she's damn lucky she wasn't on that plane, the other girls probably would have sacrificed her to the forest god out of shear annoyance. 

I guess all Shauna and Jeff needed to spice up their marriage is a blackmail plot and a murder cover up. 

I still tend to lean towards there not really being anything supernatural happening, its all just coincidence mixed with the desperate situation making them paranoid. I can certainly see why Van is lining up to join Lottie's cult. I was surprised at first but after her multiple traumatic near death experiences, mixed with her home life outside of the mountain, which was implied to be not great, I can see why she ended up being one of Lottie's first apostles. Plus Misty, who just wants to be included. 

That secret altar at Taissa's was next level creepy, especially the head of poor Biscuit. I still think that Taissa isn't really a part of the cult but is still disassociating. We have seen a lot of shots of her on her own acting freaked out by everything going on, so either that was just poor writing to keep us off the track of Tai being a cultist, or she really has no idea what she is doing. I would guess that she got triggered by the blackmailing, nothing super weird like this seems to have happened before with her before it happened. I am really curious where Tai goes in the woods, she is still very much team reason, but also is willing to play along to an extent, unlike Jackie. I can see her going along with things for a bit, especially for Van's sake, but also her breaking away to start a new tribe in opposition to Lottie's cult. Or she actually got super into the cult and only came to her senses near the end, hence her disassociating and building an altar. 

 I thought that Jackie might have been the first sacrifice, but her freezing to death feels appropriate. Jackie's problem quickly became her failure to adjust to survival mode, she could just never fully leave behind that high school mindset. She never seemed to really learn any life skills the way the others did, and while her attempts at keeping moral high with dance parties and sleep overs worked for awhile, it got to the point where she started losing her authority due to her being unwilling to really contribute to the group, and that really pissed her off. She might have had undefined "leadership" skills and a "special" quality back home, but none of that seemed to translate to her being a good leader in a survival situation. Her storming out to sleep outside was a silly petulant thing to do, even without knowing there would be a cold snap, which wouldn't be such a big deal in the regular world, but it really said a lot about her being unable to really deal with the reality of the situation. And while what she said wasn't really wrong, she really needed to read the room in the cabin. No one cared about Shauna sleeping with Jeff back in the real world, things have changed now that they're out in the mountains. Then she couldn't even start a fire when she went to sleep outside, she just couldn't adjust and that was what killed her. Her dying dream was only second to the altar as the creepiest part of the episode, especially when everyone was standing in a line all quiet then started saying how they loved Jackie all in unison, very unnerving. It was nice to see Laura Lee again, even in a dream sequence. If she hadn't died, maybe Lottie wouldn't have gone down such a dark path. Now that Jackie, one of the people that was most connected with reality is gone, what happens now? 

[Cinnabon]

Liv Henson (Van) answers questions about Van’s face healing. 
 

On a lighter note, comparatively, Van’s scar healed so cleanly and her face did not get infected. A lot of viewers were really impressed by that. 

To be fair, Coach Scott’s leg didn’t either, and that man got cauterized with a woodsmoke axe! I think some people got a little thrown off because they thought the injury was a hole, but it’s not. I don’t want to speak about this callously, or in a gratuitous way, but it’s a flap.

Right. There isn’t flesh missing. It was torn to the side and then sewn back over. 
Exactly.

https://www.vulture.com/article/liv-hewson-yellowjackets-finale-van-taissa-relationship.html

[Cornhusker12]

After a full season, I'm curious... is the Christina Ricci praise pretty much universal? I gotta say, she is super entertaining and fun in her scenes but her version of Misty and the teenage version of Misty seem very detached from each other. Teenage Misty is a delusional weirdo, for sure, and clearly feels like she has to manipulate and sabotage to "fit in," but she's an introverted wallflower. Adult Misty is like a campy wacko goofball who dropped in from an SNL sketch.

OBVIOUSLY a lot can change in 25 years, especially knowing what they're all going through haha. And I don't even dislike the character necessarily, just throws the tone off a little bit when going back and forth in time I guess.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Cornhusker12

[WaltersHair]

Jackie needed to die this episode because she'd served her purpose already. I really thought she'd make it into another season before being offed, but it's probably better this way. What was she going to major in at Rutgers, sorority rushing?

Warning: opinion ahead. If hypothermia was a pleasant way to go, everyone would just drive north with a bottle of opiates in their pocket and jump in the nearest lake during winter. Think of the worst sunburn you've ever had and translate it to cold. It's tissue death. Jackie also didn't do the paradoxical undressing seen in late hypothermia, but I don't hold the showrunners responsible for this in any case.

Also, at the very least, Van would have needed IV antibiotics for weeks (coach too). She did have a hole in her face. People young and old die every day from wounds much less complicated than Van's. The face is very scary place to have a wound. Look up 'the triangle of death'. This is the one wound I do hold them responsible for. But, I'm trying hard to suspend my disbelief and go with it. It's a great first season in any case.

[hoodooznoodooz]

I’m watching the Pilot. Allie in high school does not have a heavy accent.

[Cinnabon]

 

52 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

What was she going to major in at Rutgers, sorority rushing?

I love this! It was absolutely time for the wannabe sorority girl to go.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Shermie]

Quote

After a full season, I'm curious... is the Christina Ricci praise pretty muchuniversal? I gotta say, she is super entertaining and fun in her scenes but herversion of Misty and the teenage version of Misty seem very detached from each other.

I would say that both versions of Misty are desperate to belong and do what it takes to achieve that (in their mind). They’re also both manipulative and devious and dangerous. Teenage Misty is needy and pathetic, whereas adult Misty has matured and learned. I’m not the same person I was at 16; most people aren’t.

Quote

I think it eventually just came down to a roll of the dice.  Do you stay in a cabin which gives some protection against the elements or risk running into the elements from a bunch of teenage girls with at this point zero survival skills.  

I wonder if the 19 months means they waited for rescue for the first spring/summer, then endured an entire fall/winter, and decided to go for it the following summer? What month did they crash? So if some decided they didn’t want to live in that cabin forever, and clearly nobody was going to rescue them, they had no choice but to look for help. It might have taken them months to wander through the woods, heading south, before they stumbled upon civilization. But definitely something to try in the summer, finding help in the fall. Just a thought.

[bilgistic]

43 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I’m watching the Pilot. Allie in high school does not have a heavy accent.

Neither did anyone else in the entire cast. Just WTF.

[sistermagpie]

7 hours ago, Cornhusker12 said:

OBVIOUSLY a lot can change in 25 years, especially knowing what they're all going through haha. And I don't even dislike the character necessarily, just throws the tone off a little bit when going back and forth in time I guess.

 

13 minutes ago, Shermie said:

I would say that both versions of Misty are desperate to belong and do what it takes to achieve that (in their mind). They’re also both manipulative and devious and dangerous. Teenage Misty is needy and pathetic, whereas adult Misty has matured and learned. I’m not the same person I was at 16; most people aren’t.

In Misty's case I think we even get a hint of what the difference is. Young Misty was bullied. Adult Misty is a confident murderer. She's still desperate for people to like her, but if someone hurts her, she gets them back.

10 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Neither did anyone else in the entire cast. Just WTF.

That seemed odd to me too. Nat and Van probably would, for instance. And if you know who Ally's going to be as an adult--and we even meet her first--why not cast a girl with a Jersey accent?

[Black Knight]

I think there is a plausible path from Teen Misty to Adult Misty. Teen Misty is both desperate to fit in and optimistic that she actually can. Adult Misty understands she's never going to fit in. But she still wants to be around other people, and so she's erected this very hard shell. She knows she's manipulating people like crazy and that when they agree to what she wants, it's only because she's manipulated them, but she also knows now that is the best she can get and she's made her peace with it. Consequently she's a bit cartoony, because she is completely comfortable with herself and her place in this world now. Teen Misty wasn't.

Re: the girls surviving - in the ten episodes of this show, we went from May or June to sometime around October. (And in the first episode, apart from the pilot episode's opening their ordeal in the wilderness hadn't started yet, so it's really been nine episodes.) A lot of time has been skipped, obviously, and so I don't assume that the girls didn't try or do X just because we didn't see or hear about X.

One final point: Walking through the woods isn't nearly as benign as it sounds. There was a sad story a few years ago of a family whose car got stuck on a mountain. After a little while, the husband headed off to try to find help while the wife stayed with the kids. Rescuers discovered (and saved) the wife and kids, and then had to try to track down the husband. They found his body. He'd fallen somewhere along the way and broken his neck. The wilderness is not Disney. Every year people get killed in national parks because they didn't take it seriously, they think it's no different from the local city park. It is no small thing to try to walk a great distance through the wilderness without any of the right gear, survival training or skills. If there is one thing they know, it is that they are quite far away from civilization, or they would have been found by now. (Leaving aside speculation of an evil forest spirit or whatever that doesn't want them to be found.)

[Black Knight]

On 1/16/2022 at 9:38 PM, WaltersHair said:

Because Shauna, Misty, Tai and Nat all said the geometric symbol was only known by members of the team and the reason they paid the blackmail money. If there were photos of a the cabin, the symbol is carved into several spots in the attic and a few trees as well.

Thinking more on this - wherever they were, they were very far away from people. It appears that one would either need a private plane or to be willing to hike through pure wilderness - no trails - for weeks.

It took 19 months to be rescued. So I can see where they think that a private plane or people hiking for weeks isn't a consideration. People were interested in the Yellowjackets' story, sure - that doesn't mean they have access to a private plane nor the ability/desire to hike through so much wilderness, either. Most "citizen detectives" are bound to their keyboards.

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

[Van] did have a hole in her face. 

The actress said it wasn't a hole, it was a flap. Which I guess makes it more likely they could have just sewn it back up and she's just got a pretty cool scar now.

[TVMovieBuff]

Every show of the type where there are castaways, or people stranded in a remote place, like Lost and this show. They seem to always have a character who thrives in the new environment. Here it is Misty. Normal social structure is broken, so she can rise to the new order. It would make sense more if she found and smashed the black box later, after finding out she was one of the  strong. 

In the present day, her self-confidence and knowledge of people has remained even though she is again looked at as a weirdo.

[Sarahsmile416]

I had to laugh a little during the fight between Jackie and Shauna when Jackie unwittingly quoted the line from Beaches because I said out loud - she is just quoting Beaches.  Kind of loved that Shauna noticed this and the idea that they probably watched this movie together numerous times.  
 

Then, of course, Shauna’s reaction to seeing Jackie- screaming at her to wake up.  It’s this reaction - even after the fight, even after the Doomsgiving events, that leads me to think that while MMV, she isn’t irredeemable.    Although who knows.  Future season(s) may prove me very very wrong lol. 

[Tatum]

On 1/17/2022 at 8:34 PM, Black Knight said:

In a nutshell: They both played a large part in why their dynamic was the way it was. I noticed in their fight Jackie didn't challenge the idea that she told Shauna what to do constantly. She was aware of that. She did challenge the idea that she forced Shauna, and she was right in that - that's a story Shauna likes to tell herself, because then she doesn't have to take responsibility.

Good point. This is actually I think a fairly common dynamic for high school friendships (and sometimes post high school). One person is the really bossy, outspoken, sometimes tactless one, who does not like being challenged and does not respond well when it happens, and the more easygoing, or fearful of confrontation one, tends to just go along with the first one. It happens in romantic relationships as well. Sometimes these evolve into a more healthy dynamic, sometimes they turn toxic. And when you have someone like Shauna, who is capable of a lot of passive aggressive rebellion/retaliation...things can go REALLY sideways.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, TVMovieBuff said:

Every show of the type where there are castaways, or people stranded in a remote place, like Lost and this show. They seem to always have a character who thrives in the new environment. Here it is Misty. Normal social structure is broken, so she can rise to the new order. It would make sense more if she found and smashed the black box later, after finding out she was one of the  strong. 

In the present day, her self-confidence and knowledge of people has remained even though she is again looked at as a weirdo.

I think Misty basically did destroy the black box when she was at her strongest point. It was right after she'd saved the coach and was seen as the most helpful. As time went on it seemed like her status went down a bit--not to total outcast, but she had reason to be insecure again. 

So I can see how from her pov that was the best moment to break the box. She might have thought she was giving herself a bit more time to make people see her as a savior before they weren't in crisis anymore. After that point she was sort of looking for different ways to find a more secure place--and maybe she found it in this ep as one of the original Lottie disciples.

[For Cereals]

On 1/16/2022 at 8:06 PM, Cinnabon said:

This episode confirmed to me that I’ve made the right decision all of these years in never attending a class reunion (I was class of 1986.). 

Or joining team sports…

[snickers]

I've been meaning to post in this thread sooner so here are my thoughts:

• I got showtime for 1 month due to a black Friday special,I got it because of the hype I heard about this show, looks like I will have to sign up again at the end of the year if this show really is ready with Season 2 by then
• I've thought from the beginning, that there's more girls alive that would probably come into the picture later on, and I thought a good "plot twist" could be that some of them were never discovered and were still living in the canadian rockies....looking like Lottie is one of them, no way someone is "pretending to be" Lottie, the Antler Queen is alive and well, and she's the one who probably killed Travis and sent the postcards, I think, the fab 4 or fab 5 if you count Travis made a deal with the others to let them go and live in the woods and keep their secret, because yeah, they did bad things, but Shauna made comments throughout the season making it sound like they would all go to jail if the truth came out, if there's a murderous cult still happening sure, maybe they hunt hunters???
• I don't think Lottie wants to return to modern society, it would mean returning to her parents and going back on her meds
• I never bought into the Adam is Javi thing, first off, Shauna would have known it was him, when you spend that much time with someone, you know them, no matter how much time has passed
• Even though the writers misfired with Adam, I think they showed what the murder scene was about, trauma of the past resurfacing, she was convinced he was the blackmail guy so to me it made sense---what I find interesting, is that Jeff didn't seem all that fazed that she killed someone---makes me wonder how much he knows
• As for Tai, I've seen some comments (maybe on here) that some wonder if she herself has a history of mental illness, was there really a man with no eyes in that room? that scene was pretty creepy lol...obviously she goes into a fugue state or disassociating or whatever it is called....and I think it is a combination of everything resurfacing like with Shauna, the postcard, Travis dying, hearing about the lady in the tree, the campaign might have elevated it, but I think it would have slowly come out/emerged

My predictions for next season, I'm sure I'll be wrong on these:

• Lottie will want/threaten Nat/Tai/Misty/Shauna to return to the cult, especially if she was the one who sent the "wish you were here" cards
• Callie will threaten Shauna with, "give me what i want or i'll go the cops"
• It will be revealed Javi is in the cult and that he fathered children with the girls-hence some of the people who came to pick up Nat
• Or, Javi will be killed when the clan wars start

I just hope we at least get some answers on cabin man!

 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by snickers

[peachmangosteen]

11 hours ago, snickers said:

I never bought into the Adam is Javi thing, first off, Shauna would have known it was him, when you spend that much time with someone, you know them, no matter how much time has passed.

Shauna and everyone else couldn't even be bothered to wonder where Javi was for an entire day after they all got high and contemplated rape and murder so I'm not sure they really ever got that close to him lol.

Quote

Even though the writers misfired with Adam, I think they showed what the murder scene was about, trauma of the past resurfacing, she was convinced he was the blackmail guy so to me it made sense---what I find interesting, is that Jeff didn't seem all that fazed that she killed someone---makes me wonder how much he knows

He read her diaries, so I assume he knows pretty much everything.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Shauna and everyone else couldn't even be bothered to wonder where Javi was for an entire day after they all got high and contemplated rape and murder so I'm not sure they really ever got that close to him lol.

This is one of the oddest moments to me. When Shauna says, "Should we wait for Travis and Natalie?" you can't help but notice nobody's worried about Javi! At best when Shauna refers to the two of them she means "until they bring Javi back" but the coach seems to imply they're just out working things out as if nobody remembers the kid exists - even Shauna who's the only person shown to have interactions with him, practically. 

Then when they find Jackie Natalie and Travis are there. So...did they just give up when it got cold without finding Javi? Why haven't they raised the alarm to get everybody looking for him?

[Shermie]

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I thought a good "plot twist" could be that some of them were never discovered and were still living in the canadian rockies.

That would have been a heck of a hike, since the plane crashed in northern Ontario. 

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Callie will threaten Shauna with, "give me what i want or i'll go the cops"

While I agree that Callie is a self-centred little shit, it sure would be stupid of her to do that. I mean, what does she gain except having the whole world find out that her mother is a murdering cannibal? 

Quote

Even though the writers misfired with Adam,

I don’t think the writers misfired with Adam; it was some viewers that lost their minds over-thinking that Adam was Javi or Adam was the blackmailer or Adam was a trans-Jackie or something. 

[Black Knight]

7 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

He read her diaries, so I assume he knows pretty much everything.

I don't think we can assume that the diaries have everything. How long was the nationals trip supposed to last? I am not familiar with high school soccer nationals, but it can't be that long of a tournament. Shauna wouldn't have brought a whole pile of blank journals with her if she were expecting to be gone no more than a couple of weeks. She was out there for 19 months, so even if she bought a fresh journal to coincide with the start of the trip, it would not last 19 months.

Also, after the experience of Jackie reading her journal, she may have been more careful about what she wrote down after that.

[Cranberry]

1 hour ago, Shermie said:

That would have been a heck of a hike, since the plane crashed in northern Ontario. 

I think everyone is confused because of some early promo material mentioning Ontario, but in the first episode, the pilot says this (you can hear him in the background during the scene where Jackie gives Shauna the Valium):

"This is your captain. Our flight plan to Seattle has us going a little bit farther north than expected. We're gonna try to avoid a storm system that's coming in. Should get some great views of the Canadian Rockies."

This doesn't appear in the pilot script, but does appear in the aired episode, so I expect they changed it once they realized Ontario doesn't have the necessary terrain.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Shermie said:

I don’t think the writers misfired with Adam; it was some viewers that lost their minds over-thinking that Adam was Javi or Adam was the blackmailer or Adam was a trans-Jackie or something. 

I do think they got a little too clever in making him suspicious. Like his having no instagram, lying about his school etc. It almost seems like he was trying to fool the audience. The chance meeting at the hotel was like an alarm bell. So while I never bought that he was, for instance, Javi, and it could happen the way it did IRL, in a fictional show it seemed pretty contrived, almost as if he was trying to get Shauna paranoid enough to kill him!

Edited January 23, 2022 by sistermagpie

[Sofie Fatale]

I think the adult Lottie should be played by Shannyn Sossaman or  Sandrine Holt. But my dream casting would have been Meg Tilly but she's a tad old for the part though...

[Zonk]

On 1/17/2022 at 7:14 PM, sistermagpie said:

Magic or just a bad unusual event. Animals don't always follow their own rules, even when the rules are mentioned by the characters beforehand.

Suuuure. Wolfs not being afraid of fire is totally something that happens in the real world.

For all the rest I guess we have to agree to disagree.

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, Zonk said:

Suuuure. Wolfs not being afraid of fire is totally something that happens in the real world.

For all the rest I guess we have to agree to disagree.

I wasn't saying it was something that would happen in the real world, I was saying that it happening in this fictional world doesn't mean we're in a fantasy world where we should have rules already. If the wolves transformed into people because they were werewolves, that's would have to be supernatural. Wolves attacking people despite fire in this fictional world could mean magic or could mean they want us to be creeped out and wonder if it's magic. 

From what I hear, a champion soccer getting wasted before flying off to Nationals is also not going to happen in the real world. And years-old gasoline isn't going to power an airplane. But I didn't think Laura Lee's take-off was meant to say this show is taking place in the same type universe as, say, Supernatural. Did Taisa's sacrifice make her win the election? She seems to think so, but we don't know.

[Sofie Fatale]

On 1/16/2022 at 5:06 PM, calliope1975 said:

The real question - are we going to get another awesome 90's actress as grown up Lottie? (I'm still bummed we won't get a grown up Brittany Murphy as Jackie.)

 

 

I think Shannyn Sossamon or Sandrine Holt would be perfect to play the adult Lottie.  The actresses resemble, and they've got a similar ethnic mix to Courtney Eaton. Idk if this has any significance, but Shannyn is followed by the costume designer of Yellowjackets on Instagram. Hmmmmmm🤔

Edited January 24, 2022 by Sofie Fatale

[snickers]

On 1/23/2022 at 4:17 PM, Shermie said:

That would have been a heck of a hike, since the plane crashed in northern Ontario. 

As someone else mentioned, they are not in Ontario....they are on the other side of the country/Canada hence the "Canadian Rockies" lol.... closer to Vancouver 🙃

On 1/23/2022 at 4:17 PM, Shermie said:

While I agree that Callie is a self-centred little shit, it sure would be stupid of her to do that. I mean, what does she gain except having the whole world find out that her mother is a murdering cannibal? 

Money from the press for the story (since Shauna said she only has 12K in her college fund)....they seem to want the scoop on the buzz buzz buzz girls

 

On 1/23/2022 at 4:17 PM, Shermie said:

I don’t think the writers misfired with Adam; it was some viewers that lost their minds over-thinking that Adam was Javi or Adam was the blackmailer or Adam was a trans-Jackie or something. 

Yes, they definitely over-analyzed that, much ado was made over nothing, the writers hopefully learned their lesson for next time

 

I'm doing a complete re-watch of the whole season, there is so much to pick up on the second time on a re-watch....especially seeing the signs with Jeff and the blackmail texts....and the stuff with Lottie....watching her "visions" again....it is more an obvious she is the antler queen....not sure what deer will have to do with her cult later on...but it will be interesting to see, and she was in what appeared to be an underground bunker....maybe something will happen with that too....

 

[Shermie]

Quote

As someone else mentioned, they are not in Ontario....they are on the other side of the country/Canada hence the "Canadian Rockies" lol.... closer to Vancouver 🙃

I’m Canadian so I’m well aware of Canadian geography. I said they crashed in northern Ontario because that’s what the initial press packet said for the show. It seemed stupid to me then, but that was their story, not mine. The pilot saying something different was not something I noticed in my initial watch of the crash. Crashing in the Rockies makes much more sense, geographically.

While it seems odd that they didn’t find the plane, I just read a story in the Star about a fairly large plane with 44 Americans that crashed in the Yukon in 1950 and still hasn’t been found. There were some high profile passengers, meaning the search effort was extensive, but it just vanished. In fact, 3 other planes crashed looking for it. So planes vanishing over land does happen.

[Tatum]

On 1/23/2022 at 5:23 PM, sistermagpie said:

I do think they got a little too clever in making him suspicious. Like his having no instagram, lying about his school etc. It almost seems like he was trying to fool the audience. The chance meeting at the hotel was like an alarm bell. So while I never bought that he was, for instance, Javi, and it could happen the way it did IRL, in a fictional show it seemed pretty contrived, almost as if he was trying to get Shauna paranoid enough to kill him!

I was just thinking about this. I mean, the writers could have made him less suspicious, and I think viewers would have still thought something was up with him, because this is not a Hallmark movie, and if a guy randomly shows up just as a bunch of shit goes down- he's connected. But Shauna  needed to be suspicious of him to move the plot along and provide additional nuance to her character.

 

I thought one of Melanie's best moments was when she was telling Tai and Natalie that Adam lied to her. I mean, by that point, Shauna is full of shit, but I thought she was calling back to her legitimate hurt and humiliation when she thought Adam was pursuing her for his own personal gain. And a deep regret that there was someone out there that liked her for her...and now he's gone.