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S01.E10: Sic Transit Gloria Mundi

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3 hours ago, Tatum said:

I thought one of Melanie's best moments was when she was telling Tai and Natalie that Adam lied to her. I mean, by that point, Shauna is full of shit, but I thought she was calling back to her legitimate hurt and humiliation when she thought Adam was pursuing her for his own personal gain. And a deep regret that there was someone out there that liked her for her...and now he's gone.

Totally agree. The show ultimately just really isn't about mysteries and plot machinations, but the emotions. Adam was never really about a mystery, it was about Shauna's incredibly damaged personality. She was genuinely despondent at the idea he was tricking her and now killed another person she cared about and who cared about her. Basically she killed her dream man and is back more strongly with Jeff. Like rather than bonding with someone over her intelligence and artistic bent, she's bonded with the person who shares her deceit.

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17 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

The show ultimately just really isn't about mysteries and plot machinations, but the emotions.

Yes, the series is much more character driven than I originally thought. I was just thinking about what we still don't know- who is Pit Girl, who is Strung Up Girl, do Van and Mari and Javi and Ben survive (because who really cares about the 3-4 who don't even have names yet), and why/how did Lottie empty Travis' bank account (and presumably kill him)?...and it's like-does it really matter? There probably isn't going to be a jaw dropping answer to any of these questions, which apparently was never the goal to begin with.

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16 hours ago, snickers said:

Yes, they definitely over-analyzed that, much ado was made over nothing, the writers  some of the fans hopefully learned their lesson for next time. 
 

FIFY


 

 

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I know a show like this is catnip for pickers of nits, but:

A large passenger jet crashing in flames can't destroy the plane's black box...

But a petite albeit angry teenager can? And it's not even like she used some electronic-magnet-tech way to destroy it--she used blunt force!

Anyway, put me down as against any supernatural ending up being real on this show, because it 1) automatically lowers the stakes in too many situations if you have a magic undo button or whatever, and 2) it's the crutch for shitty, lazy writing.

Also, did we find out why the teddy bear started the plane fire that killed Laura Lee?

Edited by Penman61
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4 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Also, did we find out why the teddy bear started the plane fire that killed Laura Lee?

 

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I assumed the fire started under the seat and ignited the bear. 

Same. I think some people even said that in that type of plane, the engine or whatever would be near that seat so it caught on fire and then the bear caught on fire.

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4 hours ago, Penman61 said:

I know a show like this is catnip for pickers of nits, but:

A large passenger jet crashing in flames can't destroy the plane's black box...

But a petite albeit angry teenager can? And it's not even like she used some electronic-magnet-tech way to destroy it--she used blunt force!

Anyway, put me down as against any supernatural ending up being real on this show, because it 1) automatically lowers the stakes in too many situations if you have a magic undo button or whatever, and 2) it's the crutch for shitty, lazy writing.

Also, did we find out why the teddy bear started the plane fire that killed Laura Lee?

It was an old Cessna that hadn’t been maintained for years. Leak in the fuel pump and when the engine got hot, it caught on fire. Fuel pump is under the passenger seat. 

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The poster was referring to the plane that the team travelled on. It had a black box, which Misty found and smashed. It has nothing to do with the Cessna that killed Laura Lee and her teddy bear.

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49 minutes ago, Shermie said:

The poster was referring to the plane that the team travelled on. It had a black box, which Misty found and smashed. It has nothing to do with the Cessna that killed Laura Lee and her teddy bear.

The original post @Cinnabon was quoting also included this question:

"Also, did we find out why the teddy bear started the plane fire that killed Laura Lee?"

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1 hour ago, WearyTraveler said:

The original post @Cinnabon was quoting also included this question:

"Also, did we find out why the teddy bear started the plane fire that killed Laura Lee?"

Thanks, yes I was.

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Yeah, sorry if my discussing both planes in a single post was confusing; the way that quoting clips one's text doesn't help. 

Re Laura Lee and Her Flaming Teddy Bear: I'm fine with the theories proposed in response--thank you--but did the show itself indicate any of those explanations in that scene? My memory is that they showed only the teddy bear on fire first--and my memory has teddy bursting into flames, complete with audio, which is probably a bit of confabulating lol. (And I understand that would be in line with this show's m.o. for having it both ways/plausible deniability on supernatural stuff.)

Edited by Penman61
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1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

Yeah, sorry if my discussing both planes in a single post was confusing; the way that quoting clips one's text doesn't help. 

Re Laura Lee and Her Flaming Teddy Bear: I'm fine with the theories proposed in response--thank you--but did the show itself indicate any of those explanations in that scene? My memory is that they showed only the teddy bear on fire first--and my memory has teddy bursting into flames, complete with audio, which is probably a bit of confabulating lol. (And I understand that would be in line with this show's m.o. for having it both ways/plausible deniability on supernatural stuff.)

It made sense to me because the teddy bear being so light and made of flammable materials, would have burst into flames first. IDK, I’m familiar with Cessnas so it just immediately made sense to me. I was surprised to find that it didn’t to others. The most unbelievable part to me was that the plane started up instantly! That gas was so old, that was unlikely.  They should have stood away and just let it run for a while, lol. 

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Ugh! We had free Showtime for a week and I had heard this show was good, so my girlfriend and I gave it a look see. I was OK-ish with everything until the season finale when the show started checking the boxes of everything that went wrong in "Lost" and "Search Party." And maybe even "Seinfeld" when the cult members kidnapped Nat in the end. Hello, Sunshine Carpet Cleaners!

I am pretty sure that Tai killed poor Biscuit as a blood sacrifice to secure her victory in the state senate race. Her wife and little Sammy need to get as far away from her as possible.

I am glad that Jackie was not the victim being chased through the woods in the first episode. Now I'm wondering who the poor girl was, but not enough to add Showtime to my cable bill. I'll just wait until another free preview week. 

The girl who sewed up Van's wolf-torn face was better at medical stitching than Dr. Now on "My 600 Pound Life." She cheated death three times, which makes me think the spirit of Craphole Wilderness has plans for her.

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1 hour ago, mmecorday said:

. I was OK-ish with everything until the season finale when the show started checking the boxes of everything that went wrong in "Lost" and "Search Party."

I haven't seen Search Party, but what things are going wrong like Lost?

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@sistermagpie, as much as I loved "Lost," it eventually became a victim of its own bloated mythology. If the showrunners of "Yellowjackets" are not careful, the narrative thread could unravel quickly if too much emphasis is put on the supernatural.

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9 minutes ago, mmecorday said:

@sistermagpie, as much as I loved "Lost," it eventually became a victim of its own bloated mythology. If the showrunners of "Yellowjackets" are not careful, the narrative thread could unravel quickly if too much emphasis is put on the supernatural.

That could definitely be a problem--so far, though, one of the things I like about it is that it seems like it might not be supernatural at all!

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I am clearly very easy to please because, while I was already sufficiently hooked on this show, I am IN after this episode. I don't even care if the writers have a plan or not (I was one of the 5 people who liked the ending of Lost for what it was and never got mad because we "never got any answers" or whatever), I am here for the duration. Ritualistic cannibalism? Sure. Present-day cult? Why not. Lottie being alive and emerging as the new big bad? Heck yes! And re: casting ideas for the adult version, I read her as Hispanic so I'm kinda hoping they do go in that direction (although I'm terrible at identifying people from my own ethnicity, so what do I know, LOL).

The only false note for me was the creepy altar in Tai's basement. I really hope it's a red herring because dammit, show! She's my favourite, and while I'm not one of those people who can tolerate rape and murder on TV shows but draw the line at animal deaths, beheading the family dog as some sort of weird sacrifice to The Cult Symbol is a bridge too far for me. And it's also gonna take me a while to get over the show completely torpedoing the hottest married lesbian couple on TV since Stef and Lena on The Fosters. I did shake my head at Simone just casually crawling into that vent to explore like it was NBD. I know characters on TV are built differently and have a much higher propension to walking through dark hallways toward a weird noise instead of running in the opposite direction but woman... I'm sure there's people you can call that can take care of your "blood in the basement vent" problem?

On 1/18/2022 at 3:04 PM, Cornhusker12 said:

After a full season, I'm curious... is the Christina Ricci praise pretty much universal? I gotta say, she is super entertaining and fun in her scenes but her version of Misty and the teenage version of Misty seem very detached from each other. Teenage Misty is a delusional weirdo, for sure, and clearly feels like she has to manipulate and sabotage to "fit in," but she's an introverted wallflower. Adult Misty is like a campy wacko goofball who dropped in from an SNL sketch.

I've been thinking the same thing for a while. It feels like teenage Misty and adult Misty are two completely different people, to the point that I think the adult version of SH's teenage Misty would be wildly different from CR's adult Misty and viceversa, if that makes sense. It's not a deal-breaker for me or anything, it's just baffling sometimes when seeing all the antics adult Misty gets up to because I can't for the life of me figure out when teenage Misty's life would have veered in that direction based on what we have seen so far. And on that note, I was a bit disappointed they had her cross over all the way to murder for murder's sake with Jessica. I was kinda hoping that, for all her sadistic and slightly sociopathic tendencies, that wouldn't be something within the scope of her character. The contrast would have made her more interesting.

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8 hours ago, Niuxita said:

And re: casting ideas for the adult version, I read her as Hispanic so I'm kinda hoping they do go in that direction (although I'm terrible at identifying people from my own ethnicity, so what do I know, LOL).

Courtney Eaton's father is white and her mother is Chinese/Māori/Cook Island Māori, according to Wikipedia.

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10 hours ago, Niuxita said:

I am clearly very easy to please because, while I was already sufficiently hooked on this show, I am IN after this episode. I don't even care if the writers have a plan or not (I was one of the 5 people who liked the ending of Lost for what it was and never got mad because we "never got any answers" or whatever), I am here for the duration. Ritualistic cannibalism? Sure. Present-day cult? Why not. Lottie being alive and emerging as the new big bad? Heck yes! And re: casting ideas for the adult version, I read her as Hispanic so I'm kinda hoping they do go in that direction (although I'm terrible at identifying people from my own ethnicity, so what do I know, LOL).

Honestly, I feel like a lot of those fears at this point are just projection anyway. There's nothing in the show that's been presented as mysterious or needing answers at all. I mean, there's plenty of stuff we the audience don't know, but nothing that requires any science fiction or supernatural explanations.

10 hours ago, Niuxita said:

The only false note for me was the creepy altar in Tai's basement. I really hope it's a red herring because dammit, show! She's my favourite, and while I'm not one of those people who can tolerate rape and murder on TV shows but draw the line at animal deaths, beheading the family dog as some sort of weird sacrifice to The Cult Symbol is a bridge too far for me. And it's also gonna take me a while to get over the show completely torpedoing the hottest married lesbian couple on TV since Stef and Lena on The Fosters. I did shake my head at Simone just casually crawling into that vent to explore like it was NBD. I know characters on TV are built differently and have a much higher propension to walking through dark hallways toward a weird noise instead of running in the opposite direction but woman... I'm sure there's people you can call that can take care of your "blood in the basement vent" problem?

I though that too!

That said, re: Tai, she herself seems completely unaware of whatever "Bad Tai" is doing, so she'd probably agree with us on the Biscuit issue. 

10 hours ago, Niuxita said:

I've been thinking the same thing for a while. It feels like teenage Misty and adult Misty are two completely different people, to the point that I think the adult version of SH's teenage Misty would be wildly different from CR's adult Misty and viceversa, if that makes sense. It's not a deal-breaker for me or anything, it's just baffling sometimes when seeing all the antics adult Misty gets up to because I can't for the life of me figure out when teenage Misty's life would have veered in that direction based on what we have seen so far. And on that note, I was a bit disappointed they had her cross over all the way to murder for murder's sake with Jessica. I was kinda hoping that, for all her sadistic and slightly sociopathic tendencies, that wouldn't be something within the scope of her character. The contrast would have made her more interesting.

I can't say for sure without knowing exactly what qualities we're talking about, but tbf, the one thing we know about everyone is that something very significant happened between the two storylines. Misty has presumably already become a murderer by the time we meet her, and possibly finally had the experience of being accepted into an ingroup too, as one of the original members of the cult. She was a victim in high school and now she's the badass. Misty may be the member of the group who did chance the most since high school because she didn't find the experiencing traumatizing so isn't stuck there like the others are. I don't think, though, that she killed Jessica for murder's sake. Jessica was a direct threat to her unless she went public with the story as she pretended she was going to do (or actually considered doing before the other girls acknowledged their friendship). 

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4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Courtney Eaton's father is white and her mother is Chinese/Māori/Cook Island Māori, according to Wikipedia.

Ah, there we go. Thanks, I completely read that wrong, LOL. I don't have any casting ideas, but given how well they did with the adult and teenage versions of the 4 leads, I have full confidence in their interpretation of adult Lottie.

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Honestly, I feel like a lot of those fears at this point are just projection anyway. There's nothing in the show that's been presented as mysterious or needing answers at all. I mean, there's plenty of stuff we the audience don't know, but nothing that requires any science fiction or supernatural explanations.

Well IMO there's now the new question of who the present-day cult people are and if Lottie really is connected to them (the fact that we heard her name in the present over the sequence of Natalie's kidnapping doesn't really prove much), and there's still the question of who killed Travis (again, not confirmed it was Lottie even though it looks that way, could be another red herring) and what Natalie was "right" about. Again, I don't particularly care if they take forever to answer this or if they end up buying too much into their own hype and dragging out the reveals until they have to tie up all the loose ends in the series finale, but in this respect the show does definitely give Lost vibes in terms of creating its own mythology that can span several seasons (which, again, to me is not a bad thing at all but I can see others getting frustrated if these things are still not "answered" by mid to late season 2, for example).

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

That said, re: Tai, she herself seems completely unaware of whatever "Bad Tai" is doing, so she'd probably agree with us on the Biscuit issue. 

I really hope you're right. What worries me was Tai's face when she was announced as the winner, almost like she was satisfied that her altar/sacrifice worked (as some others have speculated upthread). This would imply she on some level knows what she's doing and there was some intentionality on her part, which is what unsettled me about the reveal. 

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I like the show but am disgusted that they went the cliched way of killing the family pet. That always bothers me more than the people getting killed.

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I still don’t get why they didn’t start a bonfire next to the lake and keep it fed with branches.  Even if all it did was smoke , it would eventually be seen and checked out.

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33 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I still don’t get why they didn’t start a bonfire next to the lake and keep it fed with branches.  Even if all it did was smoke , it would eventually be seen and checked out.

Looks like theirs was the only high school in the US that didn't read Lord of the Flies. Seems like it would have been helpful in multiple ways...

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oh, and i think there was a lot of plot contrivance for Jeff's "non-affair."  why would he bring a gift wrapped present to his loan shark?  that wasn't needed at all, except to suggest that he had a mistress.  even if you could accept his having to meet her in a hotel room (what, she couldn't come to his office at the furniture store? - just tell other employees she's from a supplier, or a potential investor or something), the gift made it even more suspicious to Shauna (even discounting the unrealisticness of Adam conveniently showing up at the same time).

And why would he need Randy to pull off the blackmail scheme?  just park his car at the one place and walk to the drop.

and yeah, Jessica was clearly not that good of a fixer if she didn't think that Misty poisoned her cigarettes, after Misty proved how good she was in learning about Jessica's family and showed her exactly how she could easily kill someone.  

My guess as to why the writers needed the girls to be missing for 19 months?  to ensure that most of them were 18 by the time they were rescued, especially Lotty, so the parents had no control over what the girls did when they got back.  

I'll be curious to see if/how Javi survived.  Maybe he is the reason the girls were eventually found and rescued.   somehow i'm guessing Coach Ben doesn't survive the winter.  

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1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

oh, and i think there was a lot of plot contrivance for Jeff's "non-affair."  why would he bring a gift wrapped present to his loan shark?  that wasn't needed at all, except to suggest that he had a mistress.  even if you could accept his having to meet her in a hotel room (what, she couldn't come to his office at the furniture store? - just tell other employees she's from a supplier, or a potential investor or something), the gift made it even more suspicious to Shauna (even discounting the unrealisticness of Adam conveniently showing up at the same time).

And why would he need Randy to pull off the blackmail scheme?  just park his car at the one place and walk to the drop.

and yeah, Jessica was clearly not that good of a fixer if she didn't think that Misty poisoned her cigarettes, after Misty proved how good she was in learning about Jessica's family and showed her exactly how she could easily kill someone.  

My guess as to why the writers needed the girls to be missing for 19 months?  to ensure that most of them were 18 by the time they were rescued, especially Lotty, so the parents had no control over what the girls did when they got back.  

I'll be curious to see if/how Javi survived.  Maybe he is the reason the girls were eventually found and rescued.   somehow i'm guessing Coach Ben doesn't survive the winter.  

Their parents still control their finances, 18 or not. Unless some of them have trust funds they can access.

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3 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Their parents still control their finances, 18 or not. Unless some of them have trust funds they can access.

yes, assuming they don't get their own jobs.  I'm assuming the school "graduated" them without any additional testing, at least for those that were seniors.  

I was mostly thinking about Lotty, who now at 18, can make her own decisions about medication.  she might not want to be medicated again, now that she knows what its like without the medicine, maybe she liked having visions and such, and her parents can't force her to take the medication (at least without a court order/power of attorney or guardianship)

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1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

yes, assuming they don't get their own jobs.  I'm assuming the school "graduated" them without any additional testing, at least for those that were seniors.  

I was mostly thinking about Lotty, who now at 18, can make her own decisions about medication.  she might not want to be medicated again, now that she knows what its like without the medicine, maybe she liked having visions and such, and her parents can't force her to take the medication (at least without a court order/power of attorney or guardianship)

They can’t force her, but they could make it a stipulation of her continuing to live with them and have them pay her expenses. Of course, she could get a job, but I doubt that would work out.

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7 hours ago, Hanahope said:

oh, and i think there was a lot of plot contrivance for Jeff's "non-affair."  why would he bring a gift wrapped present to his loan shark? 

It is such a strange detail, since it doesn't make or break the affair story for the viewer--or for Shauna. Maybe he's bringing it to her because he's afraid of her and hopes to make her like him, since she's a rep of the loan sharks? But yeah, you hardly need a detail like that when we've already got Adam showing up. I don't have a problem with them meeting at the hotel, neutral ground, but when Adam shows up there as well, it seems unlikely.

7 hours ago, Hanahope said:

And why would he need Randy to pull off the blackmail scheme?  just park his car at the one place and walk to the drop.

Oh, that's not a problem for me at all. Randy's his best friend since at least high school and I totally believe he wouldn't pull off a scheme like this without telling Randy. It's not that it's a good move strategically, he just wants Randy. He's not a criminal, he's a doofus who's not much different from the kid he was in high school.

7 hours ago, Hanahope said:

and yeah, Jessica was clearly not that good of a fixer if she didn't think that Misty poisoned her cigarettes, after Misty proved how good she was in learning about Jessica's family and showed her exactly how she could easily kill someone.  

Or she was arrogant. She thought she was the one who had tricked Misty and they were working together now. She'd been ingesting stuff from Misty for a while by then and thought Misty really was going to give her the story, so fell for Misty's last twist of throwing the cigarettes away.

7 hours ago, Hanahope said:

My guess as to why the writers needed the girls to be missing for 19 months?  to ensure that most of them were 18 by the time they were rescued, especially Lotty, so the parents had no control over what the girls did when they got back.  

I'll be curious to see if/how Javi survived.  Maybe he is the reason the girls were eventually found and rescued.   somehow i'm guessing Coach Ben doesn't survive the winter.  

My instinct is that they just wanted them there for a pair of winters. If they were already seniors they were already closer to 18 than 19 months. Lottie seemed to be one of the seniors to me.

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

They can’t force her, but they could make it a stipulation of her continuing to live with them and have them pay her expenses. Of course, she could get a job, but I doubt that would work out.

Yes, and if they were going to do that it wouldn't matter if she was over 18.

Of course, Lottie's illness in unclear anyway.

I'm definitely interested in what happened to Javi. He's not there that last morning, but Natalie and Travis are!

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So... I finished this episode and here I am, 48 hours later beginning a rewatch and this jumped out at me from E1:

Shauna (fucking Jeff in the car): If you cum inside me, I will raise the baby out of spite and train it to become a killing machine that eventually hunts you down.

Given that Shauna is pregnant and no one seems to know what happens to the baby (including Melanie Lynskey, if you believe her in interviews), I kind of want this to come back around. Forget Jeff's dumbass blackmail plot! I wonder if that made it into the journals?!

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19 minutes ago, Eeksquire said:

So... I finished this episode and here I am, 48 hours later beginning a rewatch and this jumped out at me from E1:

Shauna (fucking Jeff in the car): If you cum inside me, I will raise the baby out of spite and train it to become a killing machine that eventually hunts you down.

Given that Shauna is pregnant and no one seems to know what happens to the baby (including Melanie Lynskey, if you believe her in interviews), I kind of want this to come back around. Forget Jeff's dumbass blackmail plot! I wonder if that made it into the journals?!

Yeah, I actually wonder if one of the biggest things Shauna's talking about when she realizes Jeff knew everything wasn't the death cult but the fact that she had his baby. Or carried it for a while--whatever happened to it.

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I can overlook ALOT of necessary tv mechanisms.   Deadly wounds heal in a matter of hours or they don’t.   Depending on if the writers want to keep the character around or not.    The most suspicious character ends up being nothing but a red herring.   I actually really like this show because most of it is based on things that can be explained away even if it is with tv logic.    Bringing in Lottie’s cult doesn’t ruin the show for me.    As long as they don’t do anything supernatural then I am in for the long haul.  

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Agreed - but I’m done if they do bring in the supernatural. That said, from what I’ve heard from the show runners, that isn’t going to happen.

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3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I can overlook ALOT of necessary tv mechanisms.   Deadly wounds heal in a matter of hours or they don’t.   Depending on if the writers want to keep the character around or not.    The most suspicious character ends up being nothing but a red herring.   I actually really like this show because most of it is based on things that can be explained away even if it is with tv logic.    Bringing in Lottie’s cult doesn’t ruin the show for me.    As long as they don’t do anything supernatural then I am in for the long haul.  

36 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Agreed - but I’m done if they do bring in the supernatural. That said, from what I’ve heard from the show runners, that isn’t going to happen.

I think you lose something if it's one or the other. Some of the characters think there's something spiritual going on, and there's enough creepy things that you understand why they think that. But that's not the same thing as it being clear to the audience so there's no doubt. That's a much better recreation of how it must have felt to early people out in a cruel world without knowing exactly why things happen, with little control over the environment.

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