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S01.E10: Sic Transit Gloria Mundi

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15 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I honestly doubt she even made that much of a decision. The show made a point of reminding us, in the end, that Jackie was the person least adapted to living in the wild. She probably only stayed outside to make a point (and to show she wasn't weak) and wasn't at all aware that she was dying. 

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When she was trying the lighter, I was like, really? No way would that have still been working. She definitely stayed outside to make a point. She hadn't eaten much either the day before or the bear so there's that as well. 

I feel like the man in the dark was the guy who died in the cabin. It felt very Stephen King.

16 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Definitely. And also it's got another layer now that we know that the last time Shauna spoke to Jackie she was telling her how everything her mother is constantly saying is lies. So the torture of it isn't that Shauna's being made to feel like the loser who should have died, but that she's reminded over and over of Jackie's last moments.

1 hour ago, maystone said:

And probably is why she never went to Brown or did more with her life. The guilt about that and then she married Jeff.

17 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

This episode confirmed to me that I’ve made the right decision all of these years in never attending a class reunion (I was class 1986.). 

They aren't that bad - shows/movies only show the worst case scenario. Class of '86 as well! 

I don't have a problem with Adam & Shauna hooking up, but didn't she call the college he told her he went to and they didn't have anyone by that name there? And then "randomly" seeing her at the hotel? 

There was no way that Misty was going to let Jessica go, but expected an explosion, but knew that would be too much attention. Probably some digitalis from someone's medicine cup - the woman who died from a stroke?  

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3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I mean, of course I don't mean that Jackie was unaware that they were low on food and that she didn't feel hungry. But she wasn't at the point where she was going to treat the bear as a miracle that needed thinking. She was firmly, imo, not allowing herself to slip into a different mindset.

Gotcha. And of course with her newly nihilistic bent she wasn't going to take the bear behaving a little weirdly as proof of something supernatural.

I don't know if there is something supernatural going on, but I side with Jackie's viewpoint in the sense that if some of the girls didn't buy into the idea of the supernatural, probably fewer horrible things would have happened. She's already seen girls try to slaughter a guy, so I see where she takes a dim view of all that and I don't blame her for trying to snap everyone out of it rather than fall into that mindset herself.

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1 minute ago, Black Knight said:

I don't know if there is something supernatural going on, but I side with Jackie's viewpoint in the sense that if some of the girls didn't buy into the idea of the supernatural, probably fewer horrible things would have happened. She's already seen girls try to slaughter a guy, so I see where she takes a dim view of all that and I don't blame her for trying to snap everyone out of it rather than fall into that mindset herself.

Yes--it was a shame that she was too angry to take Tai's reassurance there because of course it's fine if she didn't thank the bear! That was basically Misty trying to raise her own status by scapegoating somebody else.

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59 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Gotcha. And of course with her newly nihilistic bent she wasn't going to take the bear behaving a little weirdly as proof of something supernatural.

I don't know if there is something supernatural going on, but I side with Jackie's viewpoint in the sense that if some of the girls didn't buy into the idea of the supernatural, probably fewer horrible things would have happened. She's already seen girls try to slaughter a guy, so I see where she takes a dim view of all that and I don't blame her for trying to snap everyone out of it rather than fall into that mindset herself.

Bears show up in the wild sometimes. Nothing supernatural about it. They are just very suggestible at this point.

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1 hour ago, Kristi800 said:

There was no way that Misty was going to let Jessica go, but expected an explosion, but knew that would be too much attention. Probably some digitalis from someone's medicine cup - the woman who died from a stroke?  

Did that woman really die from a stroke?  I was wondering if Misty had done something to hasten her demise.

Were Natalie and Travis in the cabin the morning they found Jackie?  I don't think I saw them, and I would think they'd be like WTF? if they were there.  Did they spend all night outside in the snow, too?

 

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Showing us that ritualistic killing in episode one and then not getting to it this season is just bad form. Not even How to get away with murder did that.

Killing a bear with a knife, I call bullshit on that. I don't care how sick it was. If it can still walk, it can still maul you.

I guess Lottie got herself a cult, even after they got back from the wilderness. But how would she just be able to empty Travis' bank account? And the cops didn't think that was suspicious? Very far fetched.

I'm not quite clear in how far the magic is supposed to be real and I don't like it. I think the rules of a world should be firmly established by the end of a first season at the latest. Is Jackie causing Tai's sleepwalking with that little Voodoo altar in the basement? The first time it happened it was caused by the little bone-idol Jackie had given Tai...

Jackie should really learn to play along when a dangerous cult is forming around her in the wilderness. Of course it's stupid, but you gotta survive girl. If she hadn't frozen to death, she would have been sacrificed eventually. Related: How did she freeze to death? Of course when you go into extreme hypothermia you feel warm and just go to sleep, but it should become unbearable long before that. Are we really supposed to believe that she was too pridefull to go back inside when her whole body was hurting from the cold?

So they hadn't seen Javi the whole day after the bad mushroom trip and nobody was concerned but his brother? Way to drop the ball there, coach...

I still don't buy that there is no path to that multi story cabin. How was it built? Did dead guy fly in a crane with his mini cesna?

Also still peeved, that nobody there just followed a stream to civilisation, while it was still summer, instead of "heading south". On a related note wolves attacking humans with fire is bullshit. Or is that supposed to be part of the magic?

Edited by Zonk
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2 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

There has to be more to Adam’s story. The most unbelievable plot aspect in this entire show, including all the goings on in the woods, is Adam being so incredibly attracted from first glance to frumpy middle-aged Shauna. And then randomly running into her at the hotel. If there was really nothing else behind that storyline, that is some terrible terrible writing. 

Maybe a wizard did it? I seriously don't know. That might be a possibility.

2 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Earlier, Shauna was on the internet and we saw that Lottie’s family had initiated a wrongful death suit, so I don’t think she’s still alive. Who knows what’s going on there.

Lottie probably wandered into the woods shortly before they got rescued and was presumed dead, but survived with forest magic or something.

1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

But snow fell later that night, and if she had been sleeping when it happened (and the position Shauna found her in suggests she'd been sleeping), she wouldn't have known that the fire went out. I think she froze to death in her sleep.

I'm 99% sure you can't sleep through freezing to death. It hurts, a lot. Long before you get to the comfy numb stage. You only get there if you absolutely can't find shelter.

51 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Bears show up in the wild sometimes. Nothing supernatural about it. They are just very suggestible at this point.

But they usually don't let themselves get killed with a knife.

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I think Shauna was essentially right about Jackie.  She was always destined to be one of those girls who viewed high school as the best time of their life even if the crash never happened.  The crash changed the trajectory of a lot of the girl's destinys but it also showed which ones were actually useful and even helpful and Jackie was neither.  Even Misty who everyone viewed as crazy had medical skills.  And Lottie’s mental illness was being seen increasingly as mystical leadership.   Shauna had hunting skills.  

Everyone was beginning to transition into mountain survivors but Jackie was maintaining her mean girl high school persona.  So when she told Shauna “maybe you should leave.”  I realized that was the moment everything shifted and Jackie had to go.    I was actually surprised the group didn't outright kill her but I did like the fact that sometimes the mountain chooses.

And Yeah Misty was never going to actually let what’s her face go? I keep forgetting the lady’s name but I guess it doesn’t matter anymore.

Poor Shauna’s daughter (another name I cannot recall). I wonder what she thinks when her mother’s missing lover pops on the tv.  

I am actually curious about Lottie’s cult and if they are the ones who killed Travis and kidnapped Nat because it makes for an interesting story.

Sleepwalking is a sign of stress and might have begun during Tai’s campaign or when she got blackmailed or even might have always been there.  That alter might have been something she did early and put away when she made a family but sleepwalking comes back because it calms her.    Either way it could be interesting now that she is in public office.

i don’t think there is anything supernatural going on.  I think it is all just coincidence, mental illness, and trauma.   Even the bear not attacking them can be explained away.   I don’t think this is magic.  I do think Lottie started a religion though.   A bunch of girls scared, hurt alone hungry and with different degrees of mental illness is a perfect mix for a cult.  

Edited by Chaos Theory · Reason: autocorrect never actually corrects
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15 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Re: the photos in the cabinet at the high school, I think it's that they had the team covered already with the official team pictures and so the framed photos were of the people who wouldn't have been in the official team shots. Travis and Javi were not part of the team.

I considered this too, but there was a framed picture of Akilah as well and she was on the team. I guess perhaps she wasn't included in the team photo they had in there so they had to use another photo. I might go back and check that.

11 hours ago, maystone said:

And the writers need to explain how the symbol that was shown carved into a tree before the girls found that cabin came to be the universal symbol for all of the girls for whatever craziness we're going to see next season.

This. I keep waiting for them to reveal there are already people there who have created this weird wilderness supernatural cult. It would help the show last 5 seasons if they add more people, I guess. It'd be a little too Lost though.

10 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

There has to be more to Adam’s story. The most unbelievable plot aspect in this entire show, including all the goings on in the woods, is Adam being so incredibly attracted from first glance to frumpy middle-aged Shauna. And then randomly running into her at the hotel. If there was really nothing else behind that storyline, that is some terrible terrible writing. 

I agree. There is just too much there for Adam to be nothing. But also I'm starting to see that the writers aren't quite as good as some might think they are so ...

10 hours ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

This episode solved the mystery of the entries in Jackie's diary that mentioned things from after spring of 1996, because no one would have had an opinion on the Spice Girls then--their first single hadn't been released yet. So it looks like there isn't as much attention to detail as there should be.

Yea, this. I just don't think the writers/crew/etc. are as keen as many fans maybe thought so I have really lowered my expectations lol.

10 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

The official Showtime description of the show clearly said there would be cannibalistic clans, so yes it’s a given.

That particular description was actually edited though, so either someone decided it was too spoilery or it wasn't entirely accuarte.

10 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Seriously! Shauna's got a lot of guilt but Travis has been a pretty shitty brother from the beginning. Showing Javi how to tie a tie seems to be the most attention he's ever given to him.

At least Travis immediately recognized Javi was missing and then spent the day looking for him! The rest of them were like 'Javi, who?'

9 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Jackie's dying hallucination featured Shauna coming out to get her, and Jackie being happy to go with her. And of course Shauna was genuinely grieved and heartbroken to find Jackie dead - it wasn't just guilt driving that. If Jackie hadn't died, they might have been able to work things out. Jackie's hallucination and Shauna's reaction showed they wanted to.

I'm annoyed that that was Jackie's dream. It makes more sense, but it was edited to look like it was Shauna's and that irritates me. 

8 hours ago, izabella said:

Were Natalie and Travis in the cabin the morning they found Jackie?  I don't think I saw them, and I would think they'd be like WTF? if they were there.  Did they spend all night outside in the snow, too?

Someone said they were on the porch when everyone ran out to see dead Jackie. I guess they came back in the night but didn't notice Jackie was outside.

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I understand Jackie has been obnoxious and grating on everyone for awhile now, but really? Sleeping with classmate who has an on again off again relationship with another classmate is somehow worse than coming within a millimeter of slitting said classmate's neck open? While a group watched and hooted and hollered and encouraged her? I understand the mob has a vested interest in making Jackie the bad guy, lest they turn the finger on themselves, but Taissa, Van, and Ben should really more be alarmed by the turn of events than they are.

I also thought it was really obnoxious when Shauna tried to blame Jackie for starting the chain of events. I don't care how much Princess Peach is annoying you right now, Shauna, the fault of nearly murdering Travis lies with you specifically and the mob indirectly.

 

That said, damn Jackie, take some social cues here. Now is not the time to pick fights and if you must get into them, choose your battles wisely.

 

ETA: While poisoning the cigarettes was really smart, I am not sure how Misty knew Jessica would insist on getting her specific pack back. If I were Jessica, (granted I am not a smoker), I would have gotten out of the house as quick as humanly possible and delayed my nicotine gratification a few extra moments to get to a convenience store.

 

Also, Jackie was wearing a letter jacket and a blanket and still shivering, and Natalie and Travis are walking around in regular long sleeved t-shirts and seemed unbothered by the cold.

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1 hour ago, Tatum said:

Also, Jackie was wearing a letter jacket and a blanket and still shivering, and Natalie and Travis are walking around in regular long sleeved t-shirts and seemed unbothered by the cold.

I guess it didn't get really cold until after Nat and Travis returned to the cabin.

That vulture article that someone linked earlier makes me feel a lot better about the writers. I appreciate that they seem to just be going with full honesty. I still think I need to lower my expectations though. I think the show is actually much more mundane than I initially thought, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. but it's just different than I expected so I have to adjust.

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30 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I considered this too, but there was a framed picture of Akilah as well and she was on the team.

Thinking on it, wasn't Akilah new to the team or JV? Someone made a comment when she was on the plane telling her to sit elsewhere but then said they were just kidding. Mari maybe? If she replaced Ally she wouldn't have been in the team photo.

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23 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I agree. There is just too much there for Adam to be nothing. But also I'm starting to see that the writers aren't quite as good as some might think they are so ...

Yea, this. I just don't think the writers/crew/etc. are as keen as many fans maybe thought so I have really lowered my expectations lol.

I'm with you on this one. Maybe it's PTSD from six seasons of trying to make sense of Lost but I'm also a bit disappointed. 

So Tai hasn't been stressed at all over the last 25 years?  Or has she been ritualistically killing animals for her shrine all the while? Were Nat & Travis completely unconcerned by Jackie being outdoors or did they also sleep outside and somehow survive? I thought Lottie's parents filed a wrongful death lawsuit (it was in the headlines on Shauna's laptop) now the writers are lobbying fans for adult Lottie casting ideas?  

So many more, I think I need to work on lowering my expectations as well, in addition to stifling my gag reflex...

Reading interviews with the show creators isn't helping. They definitely seem like they're just making a lot of it up as they go along.  Some spoilers here from them, including pit girl identity.  

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4 minutes ago, snarts said:

 

Reading interviews with the show creators isn't helping. They definitely seem like they're just making a lot of it up as they go along.  Some spoilers here from them, including pit girl identity.  

Did they say who she was, or just who she wasn't? I only saw one reference to Pit Girl in the interview. But I might have missed another one.

 

I just rewatched the scene between Shauna and Jackie, and Shauna was beyond vicious. Come on, Shauna, take a little responsibility here. If your best friend is so boring and self absorbed, maybe don't hang out with her every day for 4+ years? If you don't like playing soccer, maybe...don't play?

 

I did like how the writers were clear that Jackie is not a cartoon villain high school bitch. She's an imperfect, layered character. The world is full of suburban princesses like Jackie, and some of them grow out of it, and some of them don't. Sadly, Jackie was her own worst enemy on her last night. Her trying to kick Shauna out of the house was an incredibly stupid power move when it should have been clear to her she had no power there. And even then, Tai tried to help and Jackie stupidly rebuffed her. Her friendship with Shauna may not have been salvageable but I think her position in the house could have been. 

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51 minutes ago, snarts said:

I thought Lottie's parents filed a wrongful death lawsuit (it was in the headlines on Shauna's laptop) now the writers are lobbying fans for adult Lottie casting ideas?  

It's definitely possible that someone is just using Lottie's name, or maybe Lottie returned from the wilderness and then died and that's when that suit was filed, or maybe it was just a bad prop decision by the writers like Jackie's diary was. There's a lot of possibilities.

36 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I just rewatched the scene between Shauna and Jackie, and Shauna was beyond vicious. Come on, Shauna, take a little responsibility here. If your best friend is so boring and self absorbed, maybe don't hang out with her every day for 4+ years? If you don't like playing soccer, maybe...don't play?

Yea, I've been saying all along that teen Shauna fucking sucks. She is honestly the least likeable of the girls (maybe tied with Lottie) imo. I also didn't warm up to adult Shauna until episode 9 but now I'm enjoying her more for what she is, which is a truly shitty person lol.

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9 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yea, I've been saying all along that teen Shauna fucking sucks. She is honestly the least likeable of the girls (maybe tied with Lottie) imo.

Lottie was decent up until the last 2 episodes. Some speculated that Laura Lee's death would be the catalyst to evil Lottie which does appear to be the case now.

 

I go back and forth on Shauna. She does have moments of real kindness but I don't like how she justifies things to herself. She, like Jackie, is pretty complicated. But she was most definitely stone cold during that exchange with Jackie.

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I just rewatched the scene between Shauna and Jackie, and Shauna was beyond vicious. Come on, Shauna, take a little responsibility here. If your best friend is so boring and self absorbed, maybe don't hang out with her every day for 4+ years? If you don't like playing soccer, maybe...don't play?

I have wondered how Veronica and Lilly could be friends in Veronica Mars. Some of it stems from just being friends for so long you don't remember why you're friends anymore and it's just a habit. We also have to remember that they're just kids trying to stay alive and probably either the worst and best come out in these situations. I haven't watched Lost...not sure if I should dedicate my time to it.

Could Allie have been a bigger "Jersey" stereotype? She must be emulating the Real Housewives of NJ 🙄 and more of NY stereotype. 

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14 minutes ago, Kristi800 said:

I have wondered how Veronica and Lilly could be friends in Veronica Mars. Some of it stems from just being friends for so long you don't remember why you're friends anymore and it's just a habit. We also have to remember that they're just kids trying to stay alive and probably either the worst and best come out in these situations. I haven't watched Lost...not sure if I should dedicate my time to it.

Could Allie have been a bigger "Jersey" stereotype? She must be emulating the Real Housewives of NJ 🙄 and more of NY stereotype. 

Yeah, she was annoying, but I LOVED her yelling at the guy, shut the fuck up, you're a grown man!

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35 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Lottie was decent up until the last 2 episodes.

I never cared for her lol. She’s just dull to me. Now that she’s gone fully insane she’s at least a bit more interesting.

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1 hour ago, calliope1975 said:

Thinking on it, wasn't Akilah new to the team or JV? Someone made a comment when she was on the plane telling her to sit elsewhere but then said they were just kidding. Mari maybe? If she replaced Ally she wouldn't have been in the team photo.

I just went back and checked that scene from the pilot, and yes, it was Akilah being called JV by Mari. So that does explain why Akilah had her own photo in the cabinet like Travis and Javi.

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On 1/16/2022 at 11:53 AM, ShadowHunter said:

I binged this and ended up enjoying it. I wasn't caught up in theories and speculation just went along for the ride.  I had liked Van as a character until the end and she doing the crazy heart prayer sacrifice stuff with Lottie and Misty. I guess Lottie was so mad they got rescued and started a new crazy cult. 

I'm not surprised at the altar and Taissa since she was doing crazy things while sleepwalking. Still maybe we get a twist with that. 

We knew Jackie died it was just a matter how and when. I actually thought it was going to happen in Episode 9. I did feel bad for Shauna though waking up and finding her like that.  It was a well done scene. I'm happy that Shauna and Jeff seem to be in a better place. I didn't like him at first but he won me over especially with the book club line lol 😆 

No surprise Misty messed with the cigarettes. I'm surprised she still is not running around with Lottie. 

The coach has no control that it's honestly hilarious. Poor Javi what happened to him? Hopefully we find out next season.

Absolutely with you about enjoying the program for what it is  without picking it apart. I want the writers to tell me a story, not have an argument about what they give me. 

The twist I would go with on Taissa's sleepwalking is that there isn't any! She uses it as an excuse in case she needs one. 

Oh Misty you little scamp! When she had the cigarettes in the trash, I just knew something would happen because of them! The car accident didn't look bad enough to kill someone. 

NOW all I am going to complain about is how long do I have to wait to see more Yellowjackets? I'm so glad I had enough sense for once, to watch a good show from the beginning,

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8 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

Oh Misty you little scamp! When she had the cigarettes in the trash, I just knew something would happen because of them! The car accident didn't look bad enough to kill someone. 

NOW all I am going to complain about is how long do I have to wait to see more Yellowjackets? I'm so glad I had enough sense for once, to watch a good show from the beginning,

I think it was supposed to emulate her having a heart attack. 

I hope it's only six months, but some of these channels drag it out to a year-or more!

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8 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

The twist I would go with on Taissa's sleepwalking is that there isn't any! She uses it as an excuse in case she needs one. 

I'm wondering when the sleepwalking started.  The first time we saw it happen was somewhere in the middle of the season when she was outside the cabin in the middle of the night eating dirt.  Lottie even asked her about it the next day, "Did I see you outside in the middle of the night eating dirt?"  Taissa told her no, of course not, but she didn't seem the least bit disturbed by the question.  If someone asked me that, I'd be like, WTF are you even asking me?!  That makes me think Taissa knows she does this and it wasn't new behavior caused by the trauma of the crash.

I'm also unclear on what happened to Van.  It seemed like Tai was up in the tree, and then down on the ground beating something.  Was she beating a wolf that had gotten to Van?  Or was she attacking Van?  Maybe I need to rewatch that scene because it wasn't clear to me that Taissa hadn't hurt Van herself.

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I think this show actually does have a "plan".   Chapter 1  was out with the old (Jackie)  in with the new (Lottie).     This is a weird coming of age story.  And yes Jackie was one of the leaders of the team.  But her skills unlike Tai's were limited.   Tai is able to transition to fit the wilderness which was symbolized in part by the cutting of her hair.   Jackie is still wearing her school jacket.  Which could be seen as both practical but also symbolic.  She refuses to let go of the status quo of the way things were.  How dare Shauna have more power and influence in this new environment.  So Jackie tries to blow things up with truth bombs which more then likely would have worked in the old world of high school but in this one Shauna is the one with the life skills and power so no one actually cares.     And I am guessing but chapter  2 is Lottie gaining more power in the wilderness as Tai comes into power in the present.   Both under a shadow a dark force that may be spiritual but also may just be mental illness. and trauma

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I was thinking just now about that gold necklace that was Jackie's, which she loaned to Shauna but then ended up getting back, and which pit girl had - and now we know pit girl definitely wasn't Jackie. So that means someone, most likely Shauna or Lottie, takes that necklace off Jackie's dead body. I pointed out upthread that Jackie's body is the first preserved one. Which means she's probably the first to get eaten, thus moving the girls into survival cannibalism territory. Then from there they move into murder cannibalism, with Jackie's necklace used to denote which girl will be next to be killed and eaten, since Jackie was the OG. I can see creepy Lottie marking out victims that way.

45 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I go back and forth on Shauna. She does have moments of real kindness but I don't like how she justifies things to herself. She, like Jackie, is pretty complicated. But she was most definitely stone cold during that exchange with Jackie.

Yes, it's her refusal to take responsibility, and to act as if she has no agency, that annoys me. I was happy when Jackie called her out on that part. I did kind of laugh when Jackie revealed she knew about Shauna/Jeff and Shauna tried to turn it back around with "You read my journal!" as if those are equivalent betrayals.

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Just now, Black Knight said:

I was thinking just now about that gold necklace that was Jackie's, which she loaned to Shauna but then ended up getting back, and which pit girl had - and now we know pit girl definitely wasn't Jackie. So that means someone, most likely Shauna or Lottie, takes that necklace off Jackie's dead body. I pointed out upthread that Jackie's body is the first preserved one. Which means she's probably the first to get eaten, thus moving the girls into survival cannibalism territory. Then from there they move into murder cannibalism, with Jackie's necklace used to denote which girl will be next to be killed and eaten, since Jackie was the OG. I can see creepy Lottie marking out victims that way.

I suppose there is no way Jackie is the hanging naked girl, correct? At first I thought she was alive because she was bound and her throat was slit, but the rope could have been used for easier transport and they slit the throats of animals after they've been killed. However, the girl clearly was bleeding from the head and feet, and that wouldn't really track with Jackie freezing to death. I always thought the hanging naked girl was possibly Jackie because hair and body type were a match, but I don't see any way it could be now.

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5 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

I was happy when Jackie called her out on that part.

Yeah, it would have been so much better if Jackie had just pointed out she didn't force Shauna to play soccer or stay friends with Jackie or anything that Shauna was accusing her of, but instead Jackie had to talk about how jealous Shauna was of her, which was the wrong thing to say and stunningly tone deaf in a room full of people who have a lot of disdain for Jackie at the moment.

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Lottie's parents could have initiated the wrongful death lawsuit after the plane went down but before she was rescued with the others.

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I was pretty annoyed with Van when Jackie is confronting the she-wolf mob, telling them at least she (Jackie) hadn't gone insane the night before, and Van pipes up, yeah, you were too busy fucking Travis. You know what Natalie probably cares more about, Van? The fact that Shauna and co. tried to kill her boyfriend. In fact, Jackie fucking Travis had the unintended result of Travis feeling like he was on more even footing with Natalie (in terms of experience and fucking someone who had been unkind to Natalie), thus allowing them to reconcile. And even if they hadn't, I am sure Natalie would rather him not be murdered.  I would expect that from Mari, but I thought Van was a little more enlightened than to engage in slut shaming.

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3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm annoyed that that was Jackie's dream. It makes more sense, but it was edited to look like it was Shauna's and that irritates me. 

I thought it was Shauna's dream also.  Were there two dreams?  I need to rewatch, it was so intense and it was late when i watched it.  

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11 hours ago, Zonk said:

Showing us that ritualistic killing in episode one and then not getting to it this season is just bad form. Not even How to get away with murder did that.

Totally disagree. We know they're heading towards becoming a nature cult and it's going to take them a while to get there. We took some important steps already. That was enough for me.

11 hours ago, Zonk said:

Killing a bear with a knife, I call bullshit on that. I don't care how sick it was. If it can still walk, it can still maul you.

No idea if it was realistic, but depending on where you stab something I guess it can be fatal.

11 hours ago, Zonk said:

I'm not quite clear in how far the magic is supposed to be real and I don't like it. I think the rules of a world should be firmly established by the end of a first season at the latest. Is Jackie causing Tai's sleepwalking with that little Voodoo altar in the basement? The first time it happened it was caused by the little bone-idol Jackie had given Tai...

Disagree again. I think the point is that when you're living in that kind of environment the line between magic and not magic is completely blurred. The girls have no way of knowing if the magic is real, but it's not Harry Potter where there's special effects to show a spell working. We're in the same position as them about whether we see things as coincidence or magic. That's how we know we're in the real world, where magic may or may not exist.

11 hours ago, Zonk said:

Also still peeved, that nobody there just followed a stream to civilisation, while it was still summer, instead of "heading south". On a related note wolves attacking humans with fire is bullshit. Or is that supposed to be part of the magic?

Magic or just a bad unusual event. Animals don't always follow their own rules, even when the rules are mentioned by the characters beforehand.

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Everyone was beginning to transition into mountain survivors but Jackie was maintaining her mean girl high school persona.  So when she told Shauna “maybe you should leave.”  I realized that was the moment everything shifted and Jackie had to go.    I was actually surprised the group didn't outright kill her but I did like the fact that sometimes the mountain chooses.

Yes, exactly. I found the whole Jackie arc really realistic and well done. Someone elsewhere even pointed out that Jackie had very few skills but had been told all her life that it didn't matter--like the coach referring to her abstract leadership qualities and her parents saying how he was special. She did have something to offer--everybody does--but she never even tried to adapt those qualities to the situation they were in. 

 

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm annoyed that that was Jackie's dream. It makes more sense, but it was edited to look like it was Shauna's and that irritates me. 

Could be Jackie's dream (it was obviously more about how Jackie wanted her night to end) but then just cut to Shauna waking up feeling something was wrong, having had her own dream or premonition. 

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

I understand Jackie has been obnoxious and grating on everyone for awhile now, but really? Sleeping with classmate who has an on again off again relationship with another classmate is somehow worse than coming within a millimeter of slitting said classmate's neck open? While a group watched and hooted and hollered and encouraged her? I understand the mob has a vested interest in making Jackie the bad guy, lest they turn the finger on themselves, but Taissa, Van, and Ben should really more be alarmed by the turn of events than they are.

I don't think they did think it was worse at all. It was more than the whole thing was just...not as relevent to their interests. Like I thought it was great how Jackie announced Shauna's betrayal by saying she "slept with Jeff" - a if Jeff is still an important part of their lives that everyone will immediately connect to belonging to Jackie. Of course they got what she meant, but it just didn't hit them the same way it would have if she'd announced it in the locker room and saw class dating as most important. Going after Travis was more threatening the stability of the forest group, which had a whole different dynamic. 

Of course nearly killing Travis was a far bigger crime--but it was also a state of madness they'd all gone through and were still trying to make sense of. It was another thing that bonded them all together and left her on the outside. They were probably, in their drugged state, reacting to her more as a symbol of something than just deciding they all hate Jackie. It just wasn't going to land the way it would in the real world, which was where Jackie was.

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

I also thought it was really obnoxious when Shauna tried to blame Jackie for starting the chain of events. I don't care how much Princess Peach is annoying you right now, Shauna, the fault of nearly murdering Travis lies with you specifically and the mob indirectly.

Absolutely - but I think that's also why their fight immediately just became between the two of them. Shauna wasn't really blaming Jackie for what Shauna nearly did with Travis. She was just saying what she resented her for in general, and her taking Travis was an example. Shauna's ritual killing wasn't so much typical Shauna back home.

 

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

I just rewatched the scene between Shauna and Jackie, and Shauna was beyond vicious. Come on, Shauna, take a little responsibility here. If your best friend is so boring and self absorbed, maybe don't hang out with her every day for 4+ years? If you don't like playing soccer, maybe...don't play?

Absolutely - though it's not like her behavior occured in a vacuum. It was immediately noticeable how Jackie was constantly negging her. Just as Shauna can't blame Jackie for not having the gut to openly test whether Jackie would still be her friend if they didn't do everything together, Jackie can't pretend she just didn't notice she made all the decisions. Remember how she reacted when Shauna voted to go to the lake? She made a big show of maybe deciding that Mari was going to be her best friend now.

 

28 minutes ago, izabella said:

I'm also unclear on what happened to Van.  It seemed like Tai was up in the tree, and then down on the ground beating something.  Was she beating a wolf that had gotten to Van?  Or was she attacking Van?  Maybe I need to rewatch that scene because it wasn't clear to me that Taissa hadn't hurt Van herself.

Tai killed the wolf that was mauling her. That's how I saw it.

26 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think this show actually does have a "plan".   Chapter 1  was out with the old (Jackie)  in with the new (Lottie).     This is a weird coming of age story.  And yes Jackie was one of the leaders of the team.  But her skills unlike Tai's were limited.   Tai is able to transition to fit the wilderness which was symbolized in part by the cutting of her hair.   Jackie is still wearing her school jacket.  Which could be seen as both practical but also symbolic.  She refuses to let go of the status quo of the way things were.  How dare Shauna have more power and influence in this new environment.  So Jackie tries to blow things up with truth bombs which more then likely would have worked in the old world of high school but in this one Shauna is the one with the life skills and power so no one actually cares.     And I am guessing but chapter  2 is Lottie gaining more power in the wilderness as Tai comes into power in the present.   Both under a shadow a dark force that may be spiritual but also may just be mental illness. and trauma

Exactly. I liked how you could even see how Jackie always looked like she was more dressed for school than the other girls--like when she was wearing that sweater vest over her shirt. Even if she was right that the girls were acting crazy, she still wasn't seeing what was going on around her. She could have made a place for herself in the group post-crash, but openly refused to do that. She was just having none of this "living off the land" stuff to the end. 

13 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Yeah, it would have been so much better if Jackie had just pointed out she didn't force Shauna to play soccer or stay friends with Jackie or anything that Shauna was accusing her of, but instead Jackie had to talk about how jealous Shauna was of her, which was the wrong thing to say and stunningly tone deaf in a room full of people who have a lot of disdain for Jackie at the moment.

I think that was just like the above stuff with Shauna. Jackie didn't really just not know that Shauna didn't like playing soccer. She's punished Shauna as a friend for less than not wanting to join the soccer team with her. She needed to reassert her place as the person Shauna was jealous of and who Shauna would follow around. Shauna wasn't totally wrong about Jackie any more than Jackie was totally wrong about Shauna.

8 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I was pretty annoyed with Van when Jackie is confronting the she-wolf mob, telling them at least she (Jackie) hadn't gone insane the night before, and Van pipes up, yeah, you were too busy fucking Travis. You know what Natalie probably cares more about, Van? The fact that Shauna and co. tried to kill her boyfriend. In fact, Jackie fucking Travis had the unintended result of Travis feeling like he was on more even footing with Natalie (in terms of experience and fucking someone who had been unkind to Natalie), thus allowing them to reconcile. And even if they hadn't, I am sure Natalie would rather him not be murdered.  I would expect that from Mari, but I thought Van was a little more enlightened than to engage in slut shaming.

True, but I think it was natural for Van to point out that Jackie's reason for not being involves with the rest of the group weren't innocent - I think that was much more the point than saying she was a slut. Natalie would certainly prefer to have Travis lose his virginity with somebody else than be murdered--she didn't have his issues about that. But Jackie's whole Travis plan was also more intentional. 

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1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

True, but I think it was natural for Van to point out that Jackie's reason for not being involves with the rest of the group weren't innocent

You could argue that Jackie was unkind, and unwise, to decide losing her virginity was worth creating bad blood within the group, that impacted everyone, but there was no way she could have known Lottie and Shauna would react how they would. And three of the people that ate the mushrooms did not act the way Shauna and Lottie did, so I can see being completely horrified and not wanting to sweep it under the rug, and wanting to understand what happened. Throwing in that Jackie had been off with Travis just seemed like a completely irrelevant diversion from what needed to be discussed.

5 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Absolutely - but I think that's also why their fight immediately just became between the two of them. Shauna wasn't really blaming Jackie for what Shauna nearly did with Travis. She was just saying what she resented her for in general, and her taking Travis was an example. Shauna's ritual killing wasn't so much typical Shauna back home.

I don't know about that. She said, this never would have happened if you hadn't- and then she broke off. I am not sure how her resentment of Jackie led to nearly killing Travis.

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1 minute ago, Tatum said:

You could argue that Jackie was unkind, and unwise, to decide losing her virginity was worth creating bad blood within the group, that impacted everyone, but there was no way she could have known Lottie and Shauna would react how they would. And three of the people that ate the mushrooms did not act the way Shauna and Lottie did, so I can see being completely horrified and not wanting to sweep it under the rug, and wanting to understand what happened. Throwing in that Jackie had been off with Travis just seemed like a completely irrelevant diversion from what needed to be discussed.

Oh, I think Jackie was totally reasonable to not want to sweep it under the rug. But I bought Van having an instinctual reaction to not want Jackie being self-righteous. Even if she didn't go as far as Shauna almost did with Travis, she was part of the pack - and she's probably the one most defensive about Jackie's mocking the grace Van herself suggested they say. Van's had her own personal anti-Jackie arc going on for a while.

Meanwhile, I think everyone else was taking a "what happens during the bacchanal stays at the bacchanal" so if Jackie was going to get them to talk about it (which would have been a great idea) she would probably have to approach it a lot more carefully and even respectfully. Everybody else was high and experienced something weird in their perceptions except Jackie. Like on one hand she was seeing their behavior more clearly than they were...but otoh she wasn't seeing it clearly at all.

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Just now, sistermagpie said:

Oh, I think Jackie was totally reasonable to not want to sweep it under the rug. But I bought Van having an instinctual reaction to not want Jackie being self-righteous. Even if she didn't go as far as Shauna almost did with Travis, she was part of the pack - and she's probably the one most defensive about Jackie's mocking the grace Van herself suggested they say. Van's had her own personal anti-Jackie arc going on for a while.

Meanwhile, I think everyone else was taking a "what happens during the bacchanal stays at the bacchanal" so if Jackie was going to get them to talk about it (which would have been a great idea) she would probably have to approach it a lot more carefully and even respectfully. Everybody else was high and experienced something weird in their perceptions except Jackie. Like on one hand she was seeing their behavior more clearly than they were...but otoh she wasn't seeing it clearly at all.

Oh yes, she did herself no favors. Like I said upthread, Jackie has been her own worst enemy the entire time.

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Freezing to death is anything but painless.  There is no way in hell Jackie could have made herself fall asleep in that cold.  Her survival instincts would have kicked in and forced her inside.  No amount of teenage angst/hatred would keep her warm.  lol

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2 minutes ago, ponyglue said:

Freezing to death is anything but painless.  There is no way in hell Jackie could have made herself fall asleep in that cold.  Her survival instincts would have kicked in and forced her inside.  No amount of teenage angst/hatred would keep her warm.  lol

What about hypothermia? Doesn't that make the person confused etc. and can't you even not realize you have it? Genuinely asking - I'm no expert on hypothermia.

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This is probably a total reach, and I am guessing the writers are treating freezing to death like carbon monoxide poisoning- you just lose consciousness and die before you can regain it- but it is possible that Jackie did not freeze to death? As in, she was killed another way?

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All of them came into the situation resenting Jackie (Shauna most of all) so not surprised how little it took for them to completely shun her. It does irk me that she's being blamed for the hookup while Travis gets a pass from everyone, including Natalie but I get it, teenage girls. 

It does strike me as odd that coach, just by nature of his position/relationship, wouldn't be more forceful in trying to keep the peace. Or, at the very least, keep everyone safe & alive. Especially since he's the only adult present. 

Was Taissa supposedly a fine upstanding citizen, successful/happy wife/mother until receiving the postcard and then suddenly starting sleepwalking, freaking out her son & ritualistically killing the family dog?  25 years is a long time, I can't imagine the postcard is the first time she'd be triggered.

Edited by snarts
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2 hours ago, Kristi800 said:

Could Allie have been a bigger "Jersey" stereotype? She must be emulating the Real Housewives of NJ 🙄 and more of NY stereotype. 

Bad acting. Bad attempted accent.

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Arggghhhh, I spent all weekend moving into a new house and dutifully avoiding the internet so I wouldn't be spoiled. I'm just now catching up on my shows. I haven't had a chance to read all the comments, so forgive me if I repeat what's already been said.

I absolutely loved the finale. So many wtf moments.

I was NOT expecting Jackie to die. I figured she'd never make it out of the woods, but thought she'd last until right before they were rescued. That fight between her and Shauna felt so real and that moment Jackie realized it was over for her in terms of her position with the group was something. Whether the freezing was realistic or not, Jackie dying due to her own stubbornness and pettiness was so apropos. 

Can the show please sell Misty's "Don't Ruffle My Feathers" tote? Because I'd give my right arm for one.

Speaking of arms, ewww. Adam. Shauna chopping up a body while she and Nat converse like they're at Starbucks. Someone on Reddit had a great comment, wondering if Adam was part of Lottie's cult. Maybe that friend's cabin in the Poconos is where they're hiding out? Plus the back tattoo might be some sort of group symbol.

With regards to strung up girl, I originally thought it was Jackie from a different incident or timeline, but if the clan had to dig up her corpse, they wouldn't need to bleed her. 

So what happened to Javi? The poor kid is so irrelevant, nobody even noticed he's gone. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tatum said:

 

I don't know about that. She said, this never would have happened if you hadn't- and then she broke off. I am not sure how her resentment of Jackie led to nearly killing Travis.

Maybe because that's what started Lottie speech "he doesn't belong to her"? I remember Shauna trying to say to people to let it go (not look for them) or something like that. 

I like both of them (Jackie and Shauna) and think they were both right and wrong in the discussion. Jackie didn't have a clue or wasn't worried about what Shuauna wanted (for example: deciding what their room colors would be. She wasn't asking Shauna what she thought about it,- she was telling her how it would be) and Shauna lied and didn't want to take responsability for her affair with Jeff (even if she really did like him and it wasn't only to spite Jackie) ror that maybe she was going to Brown (though this was only implied in the show.). 

Jackie did put her down (like saying that Randy fucking Walsh asked about Shauna and that she thought Shauna woud have liked to known that someone asked about her. I mean ... c'mon. Randy Walsh. it's such a passive aggressive move). Shauna kept resenting her and acting out instead of talking to her and defending herself. 

Jackie was stupid for trying to kick Shauna out from the cabin thinking people would back her up after not saying thanks to the meal they were having (and for judging them constantly). It's tragic because I do feel they loved each other (as much as Lenu and Lila from My Brilliant Friend did. Jackies mom was right. They are similar to them. Not because Lila was amazing and Lenu wasn't. But because they both loved and envied one another.).

 

Edited by braziliangirl
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5 minutes ago, braziliangirl said:

Maybe because that's what started Lottie speech "he doesn't belong to her"? I remember Shauna trying to say to people to let it go (not look for them) or something like that. 

I like both of them (Jackie and Shauna) and think they were both right and wrong in the discussion. Jackie didn't have a clue or wasn't worried about what Shuauna wanted (for example: deciding what their room colors would be. She wasn't asking Shauna what she thought about it,- she was telling her how it would be) and Shauna lied and didn't want to take responsability for her affair with Jeff (even if she really did like him and it wasn't only to spite Jackie). 

Jackie did put her down (like saying that Randy fucking Walsh asked about Shauna and that she thought Shauna woud have liked to known that someone asked about her. I mean ... c'mon. Randy Walsh. it's such a passive aggressive move). Shauna kept resenting her and acting out instead of talking to her and defending herself. 

Jackie was stupid for trying to kick Shauna out from the cabin thinking people would back her up after not saying thanks to the meal they were having (and for judging them constantly). It's tragic because I do feel they loved each other (as much as Lenu and Lila from My Brilliant Friend did). 

 

Jackie is definitely self absorbed to the point of oblivious. Shauna is not wrong in that regard. I think Jackie honestly believed Shauna had always emulated her and looked at Jackie as her own personal ideal, so her telling Shauna what to wear and how to act was her trying to help Shauna be more like her.

 

That is probably also why finding out that Shauna slept with Jeff was so devastating- it wasn't just the betrayal, Shauna had experienced something Jackie had not, and knew things (sexually) Jackie did not know. If Jackie disclosed any of her sexual activity to Shauna, she probably did it in a slightly patronizing way, assuming Shauna was completely ignorant about it, and now she finds out Shauna not only has had sex but knows how to achieve an orgasm with Jeff (if Shauna was that explicit in her journal, which I am guessing she was).

 

They definitely did love each other, faults and all.

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1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Speaking of arms, ewww. Adam. Shauna chopping up a body while she and Nat converse like they're at Starbucks.

Right?  They were so unperturbed by what Shauna was doing while they were talking. 

Shauna wasn't at all concerned about Adam's death, either.  She seemed completely over it during the scene on the couch when the news broadcast came on. 

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5 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I just went back and checked that scene from the pilot, and yes, it was Akilah being called JV by Mari. So that does explain why Akilah had her own photo in the cabinet like Travis and Javi.

Wonder why the JV girl that was killed in the actual crash didn't get a framed pic?

5 hours ago, TVMovieBuff said:

NOW all I am going to complain about is how long do I have to wait to see more Yellowjackets? 

They haven't even started writing season 2 yet so it's gonna be awhile. At least a year probably.

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Could be Jackie's dream (it was obviously more about how Jackie wanted her night to end) but then just cut to Shauna waking up feeling something was wrong, having had her own dream or premonition. 

I hate that kind of trick. If you show a dream and then immediately cut to someone waking up in a panic, then that's telling the audience it was that person's dream.

3 hours ago, Tatum said:

This is probably a total reach, and I am guessing the writers are treating freezing to death like carbon monoxide poisoning- you just lose consciousness and die before you can regain it- but it is possible that Jackie did not freeze to death? As in, she was killed another way?

I doubt it. The show is actually pretty straight forward/simple most of the time.

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Someone on Reddit had a great comment, wondering if Adam was part of Lottie's cult. Maybe that friend's cabin in the Poconos is where they're hiding out? Plus the back tattoo might be some sort of group symbol.

The writers have already confirmed that Adam was not part of the cult. He was really just a guy that had no social media, lied to Shauna about where he went to school, fell in love with her immediately, stalked her and/or just happened to be places she was, and had a big tattoo on his back of a forest. Gah, I hate it!

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6 hours ago, MBayGal said:

I thought it was Shauna's dream also.  Were there two dreams?  I need to rewatch, it was so intense and it was late when i watched it.  

I interpreted it as both of their dreams. 

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6 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Van's had her own personal anti-Jackie arc going on for a while.

Especially after Jackie left her for dead when they were escaping the crashed plane. 

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First I thought it was Shauna's dream, then I thought it had to be Jackie's, but apparently, it's Shauna's. (At least, that's what Jonathan Lisco says here.)

Quote

“As you saw we even use Laura Lee in that episode even though she exploded in the plane. And to me, when she’s shown in soft focus, vaseline on the lens, and you realize that this is actually Shauna’s dream from which she wakes to find Jackie dead — I mean that is a beautiful moment. At least, I found. I’ve seen it 57 times. I’ve worked on every frame of the film and it still moves me. And when Shauna runs out and screams out in pain over Jackie’s body that’s frozen, it’s really compelling.”

From https://decider.com/2022/01/16/yellowjackets-season-1-ending-explained-lottie-jackie-hunter-theories/

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