S01.E10: Sic Transit Gloria Mundi

[Cranberry]

On the night of their 25-year class reunion, the Yellowjackets navigate damning evidence, false alibis and a dubious attempt to “heal.” In the wilderness, the Doomcoming fallout finds everything firmly off the rails as simmering resentments come to a head.

[WaltersHair]

No,  no , NO. I want closure, not some hyped up cult and Jackie freezing to death.

Will have to sleep on it (if I can) and re-watch when I'm not so pissed about this finale.

 

[Armchair Critic]

That altar...the poor dog...so did Tai use the dark arts to win the election?

I knew Misty was not going to just let her leave.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Armchair Critic

[Cranberry]

That was... okay, I guess? There were a few things I enjoyed, like Misty happily directing the crime scene cleanup, Misty letting Jessica go but clearly not falling for any of her bs and actually letting her go, the big Teen Shauna and Jackie fight, the ladies striding into the reunion, Shauna scaring the crap out of Randy, Callie learning that Adam's dead...

I didn't like Jackie dying. I fully expected her to at some point; I didn't think she could still be alive in the present, but it just seemed... anticlimactic, maybe? I get that the writers are driving home that these are just stupid kids and they can die from crazy things like spike pits and plane explosions but they can also die from normal things like exposure, but... I don't know. Maybe it just felt too soon.

I didn't like the bear "sacrifice." It's still not proof of anything supernatural -- the bear could have been stupid and/or not used to seeing humans and curious about them -- but it was verging on unnatural. I like the supernatural elements more vague.

I really didn't like Tai's little altar thing in the basement. Are we to believe she did all that in her sleep, or has she been a crazy cult devotee all along? If they're trying to do some kind of, "Tai was one of the most skeptical in the past but now she's completely bought in; won't it be fun to see why she does a 180!?" thing, I'm not into it.

 

[AnimeMania]

Season Finale

[MCMLXXVII]

I like that Misty’s wearing the modern adult version of Brenda and Kelly’s BH:90210 Spring Dance dress. 😂 I feel like she would have been a fellow 90210 fan. Her long game was actually brilliant so as not to need to dispose of another body. Her former hostage has been missing for weeks though, right? I wonder how no one noticed?

So that was…satisfying. I was really worried for Nat towards the end with the show being as gory as it is, but I guess JL has a contract. 

It was fitting with the LoTF/neo-primitivism theme that Jackie would find herself banished, apparently that was punishment pre-written laws/courts/etc. 

Jeff and Shauna really bonded now that they’re not bored anymore, huh? 
 

Taissa definitely has the same evil smile as after her speech. Not sure if she consciously knows what she’s doing though.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by MCMLXXVII

[LilaFowler]

Poor Jackie. I got Rose-returning-to-the-Titanic vibes during her last scene. When they all die, they'll be back in that cabin.

Poor Callie. You could see the wheels in her head slowly turning... her mother is a murderer and not just a teenage forest cannibal.

Here we go with Antler Queen Lottie. Who may very well be alive and well?! So glad that Natalie didn't get a chance to shoot herself. The way that Juliette Lewis spoke of the role in interviews had me wondering if she was one-and-done.

Best Acting Award for S1 goes to Sophie Nélisse IMHO. She really excels at the crying scenes.

[ShadowHunter]

I binged this and ended up enjoying it. I wasn't caught up in theories and speculation just went along for the ride.  I had liked Van as a character until the end and she doing the crazy heart prayer sacrifice stuff with Lottie and Misty. I guess Lottie was so mad they got rescued and started a new crazy cult. 

I'm not surprised at the altar and Taissa since she was doing crazy things while sleepwalking. Still maybe we get a twist with that. 

We knew Jackie died it was just a matter how and when. I actually thought it was going to happen in Episode 9. I did feel bad for Shauna though waking up and finding her like that.  It was a well done scene. I'm happy that Shauna and Jeff seem to be in a better place. I didn't like him at first but he won me over especially with the book club line lol 😆 

No surprise Misty messed with the cigarettes. I'm surprised she still is not running around with Lottie. 

The coach has no control that it's honestly hilarious. Poor Javi what happened to him? Hopefully we find out next season.

[Dminches]

I thought the episode was great, despite Jackie's death, up until Tai's wife finding the ritual table and Nat getting kidnapped.

I really have no interest in the Lottie-led cult. 

The rest was entertaining and did provide some closure.

I guess next season will show the continuing saga in the woods (I am ok with that) and the modern day fiasco (ugh).

 

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, LilaFowler said:

Best Acting Award for S1 goes to Sophie Nélisse IMHO. She really excels at the crying scenes.

I have been super unimpressed by her myself but she absolutely killed that final scene with dead Jackie. It was honestly one of the few reactions that actually felt real to me.

I have mixed feelings that I’m still kinda processing lol but one big question: who was the man in Shauna’s dream?

[ShadowHunter]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I have been super unimpressed by her myself but she absolutely killed that final scene with dead Jackie. It was honestly one of the few reactions that actually felt real to me.

I have mixed feelings that I’m still kinda processing lol but one big question: who was the man in Shauna’s dream?

I think it was the guy whose dead body they found in the cabin. 

[LilaFowler]

I thought it was the coach that died in the crash but it was too dark.

[Anela]

Oh, of course Lottie survived, and started a cult. Lottie had Travis killed, and Tai is now a believer? I'm not a fan of this, either. It's like they thought they needed something even crazier, in order to get a season two. 

Callie learns that she really shouldn't piss off her mother, but she could also hold this over her head next season. 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Anela

[The Pretender]

I've really enjoyed this show, some episodes more than others but they've kept my interest enough to prioritize this show week after week. Things in this episodes really brought more questions than answers though. Sad about Jackie but it wasn't that surprising she was dead I guess. Just sad to imagine her stuck in that cabin in the afterlife with those smiling ghosts & their ringleader Mr Shadow. Brings the question who was spiked in that pit wearing her necklace? Lottie went from freaky to freakiest. Van's "turning" came as a surprise but I guess she was vulnerable after everything she's been through. I was sort of hoping she would be the one still alive as I was imagining Sarah Snooks playing her as an adult. Count me in for season 2 either way. 

5 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

Best Acting Award for S1 goes to Sophie Nélisse IMHO. She really excels at the crying scenes.

Agreed. She was VIP throughout this season imo. The youngsters impressed me more than the adults did actingwise. Which suprised me seeing who the actresses are playing the adults. The youngsters just had better chemistry playing off each other but then again perhaps the adults aren't meant to have it. 

[calliope1975]

I have no idea how the showrunners plan to keep this going for 5 seasons, but I like all the actresses (both young and old versions) enough to see where it goes. I am curious why all this is happening now. Not the Adam/kidnapped investigator/blackmail stuff. But the Travis' murder and Lottie's apparent cult kidnappers. It's been 25 years. Is it because it's the anniversary? Or just a coinkidink? 

I don't think Tai knows she's got Biscuit's head on an alter. I think she's completely disassociating, but has it always been happening or just now when Jeff sent the postcard - yes I'm still mad about that. Retraumatizing survivors for 50k is ridiculously cruel even if he's too dim to understand that. But damn, whatever went down out there ingrained itself into these women. Shauna's blase attitude about dismembering Adam and Misty's glee about being needed again and tying up loose ends with the fixer. Damn. Natalie seems mostly self-destructive at this point, but it wouldn't surprise me if we find out more about her and Travis' time together. So it was probably the cult that Travis was referring to about Natalie being right about. 

Poor Jackie. Everyone who said she'd lost any clout she had back in Jersey was right. No one cared Shauna slept with Jeff. Jackie was still stuck in high school top bitch mode when everyone else had moved on. I don't know what this show is doing to me when I'm glad she died of exposure and wasn't murdered by her friends. 

I can see why Van started believing and following Lottie. Girl had like 3 near death experiences and also had a magically healed face. And Misty goes wherever she can feel like she's part of a group. I have no idea what was up with that bear though. Curious? Sure. Just laying down to get stabbed? Suspect. 

Poor Javi. He's probably lost, coming down off his high, and alone. 

The needle drops in this episode were fabulous. 

The real question - are we going to get another awesome 90's actress as grown up Lottie? (I'm still bummed we won't get a grown up Brittany Murphy as Jackie.)

 

 

[peachmangosteen]

12 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I am curious why all this is happening now. Not the Adam/kidnapped investigator/blackmail stuff. But the Travis' murder and Lottie's apparent cult kidnappers. It's been 25 years. Is it because it's the anniversary? Or just a coinkidink? 

Yea, this is what I keep asking myself, too. So, for 25 years all these survivors just don't have any contact with each other and then Lottie and her cult (of who exactly?) randomly decides to kill Travis and then waits weeks/months to kidnap Natalie. It doesn't make sense! But I guess that's the point lol.

I noticed in the little shrine thing at the school that there were framed pics of Travis, Javi, and Akilyah (sp?) but no one else, which is interesting.

2 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

I think it was the guy whose dead body they found in the cabin. 

I've seen some others spec that as well. It's feeling more and more like they're gonna go supernatural.

 

[WaltersHair]

I think Jackie gave up. Sex was probably on her bucket list, her best friend is pregnant with her boyfriend's kid, and the group had turned against her. All attempts to leave or be rescued have been a disaster. She could have gone back inside; I don't think anyone would have denied her, but dying in her sleep was preferable.

If there's a splint in the group, it might happen now. Shauna will head the 'Lottie is a fruitcake' group and the rest will think she's the second coming. Tai might go with that group initially, but she doesn't buy it and they will know. That would tear Van and Tai apart and offers an explanation for why they aren't together in the present (assuming Van is still alive and in the present cult).

I don't know. I hate the idea of a cult for next season.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Best Acting Award for S1 goes to Sophie Nélisse IMHO.

For me it was Christina Ricci who stole the show. Without her, I don't now that I would have kept watching, or that I would come back for another season. I knew, knew, knew she wasn't going to just let Jessica go, and I was waiting for her car to explode or something.  But I should have guessed her M.O. because it had already been established.

Hated the scene with the bear, the poor thing seemed like maybe it was starving or something. Which tracks with the survivors being unable to find any wild game. But when they first saw it I wondered why they didn't just run into the cabin to get away. It was right there!

I still don't think this is the kind of story that can be dragged out for five seasons, but I guess we'll see. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by iMonrey

[calliope1975]

11 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I hate the idea of a cult for next season.

I'm leaning this way, too, even while understanding why it would exist. If it's Lottie's cult, who is still alive, I can see how surviving all of this would lead her to think this is the way and not getting a refill of her meds stat as soon as she was rescued. And people join cults for all types of reasons, so I can see her gaining followers who weren't part of the original team. I just hope the show doesn't become cult-centric. I've already seen spec that Adam was part of the cult, which could explain his back tattoo, his cabin he was trying to lure take Shauna to, his social media absence, and his family not hearing from him for weeks. Orrrrr, he's just a dismembered artist who was hit by the wrong lady. Something to chew on until S2 - why has it not started filming, I need it!

28 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I noticed in the little shrine thing at the school that there were framed pics of Travis, Javi, and Akilyah (sp?) but no one else, which is interesting.

I also thought that was interesting as far as who had single pics displayed. 

[peachmangosteen]

I'm just now remembering that no one, not even Ben, gave one shit that Javi was missing an entire day right after they all got high on shrooms and went insane. Even when they're having dinner, they only ask if they should wait for Travis and Natalie. That's either pretty bad writing or everyone is just kind of awful lol.

[Black Knight]

That was amazing. I need to rewatch ASAP, but that was amazing.

I had an outright laugh at the start when Natalie asked Misty if the tupperware was so Misty could take leftovers - from Adam's body, she meant. That was even better than the "Jerky. Really?" comment from earlier in the season.

Allie is such a horror and as much as she obviously wishes she had been part of the plane crash, she's lucky she's not because I'm pretty sure the other girls would have killed her out there. She kicked off the pilot episode saying she'll never forget when she heard the plane went missing, that could have been her, and then her line to Jeff and his reaction made it clear that she's said that every day since in an attempt to glom herself onto other people's tragedy. It wasn't yours, Allie! And she wasn't even part of the class of 1996! She was a freshman! I was dying for someone to yell during her speech, "You don't even go here!" But Mean Girls wasn't until 2004, so a bit late for this high school class. However, what was certainly part of this high school class? Beaches! I fucking loved it when Jackie quoted it and Shauna called her out on quoting it! (Like them, I'm class of '96 and every girl I knew saw that movie at least five times. Big sleepover movie.) The whole Jackie/Shauna confrontation was great. As is typical for teenagers, they said a lot of harsh things, most of which were true and some of which weren't.

I understand why they killed Jackie now. Once she confronted Shauna, her arc was done. She was at the bottom of the group and it just is hard for me to see what remaining story she would've had out there in the remaining 12 months or however much time is left before the rescue. I'm going to miss her though; I actually liked her quite a lot in this episode. Nihilistic Jackie's eyeroll in the cabin was hilarious. And then she pretty much was the only sane person in the cabin (apart from Ben, but Ben doesn't know half of what went on). Sure, it was also part of her ongoing inability to read a room, but still, it was nice to hear someone say what I was thinking. The girls casually eating and giving thanks and going on about smaller sins when they'd assaulted and nearly slaughtered a boy the previous night was crazy. It was an interesting change to see Jackie go from being one of the more impractical people to being the voice of reason, and now that she's dead, I'm not sure who that is anymore. Ben, of course, but nobody listens to him. Natalie, maybe. Tai was a little too okay with the whole Travis thing even if she wasn't part of it herself. If Javi ran the fuck away and is staying away purposely, he's another reasonable one.

I can kinda see Van falling in with Lottie, considering the near-death experiences she's had.

I definitely don't think Adult Tai is aware of what she's doing. The theory that she was triggered by Jeff makes a lot of sense to me. She's been married to Simone for 15 years and the stuff that's been happening since the show premiere was obviously new to Simone.

Re: the photos in the cabinet at the high school, I think it's that they had the team covered already with the official team pictures and so the framed photos were of the people who wouldn't have been in the official team shots. Travis and Javi were not part of the team.

Not too much tends to scare me, but Jackie's going-into-death scene did, once Shauna brought her inside the cabin and everyone was lined up to greet her. From that point on it was so creepy. It was nice to see Laura Lee again, even for a few seconds and even in that context. (It reminded me of a similar going-into-death scene on The Walking Dead long ago.)

ETA: Forgot to mention, Jackie is the first to die who has a preserved body, like the people who died in the Andes plane crash. They may not be willing to eat her right away, but they'll have to talk about it sooner or later.

[lyric]

God, I’m such an idiot. I thought this was a limited series and binged it. I read up thread it’s FIVE seasons?!? Well, hell - guess I’ll check back here to see how it ends. It was entertaining enough, but no interest in following this through more seasons - two maybe, but five is a non-starter for me. Enjoy guys!

[calliope1975]

I stole this from onpyre on Tumblr, but OMG: "and, of course, freezing out the player not working with the team.. this time literally" 😮 

RIP Jackie

I also read a comment somewhere about the choice of song when they walked into the reunion. Maybe there's something to keeping them separated. 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by calliope1975

[Black Knight]

2 minutes ago, lyric said:

I read up thread it’s FIVE seasons?!? Well, hell - guess I’ll check back here to see how it ends.

Well, they say they have a five season plan - doesn't mean Showtime will give them that. What I do think the network will do now, given the buzz around the show, is that if they decide to end it after the third season or whenever, they'll give the creators notice so that they can wrap up the story.

Looking again at what went down immediately prior to Jackie's death, Shauna enduring Jackie's mother's passive-aggressive comments on Jackie's birthday for 20 years makes sense.

[WaltersHair]

BTW, no disrespect intended calling Lottie a fruitcake. She had, at the very least\, a duty to tell the others that she was on medication. She can't tell them now and that's a shame. Might have saved some lives.

[Anela]

I feel dim. I didn't understand the question about leftovers. I'm not with it today.

[WaltersHair]

14 minutes ago, Anela said:

I feel dim. I didn't understand the question about leftovers. I'm not with it today.

I think Nat was asking if Misty was going to take some of Adam home to consume later. There are so many overt hints of cannibalism, I think it's a given at this point.

And I can't believe I just typed that.

[Black Knight]

5 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I think Nat was asking if Misty was going to take some of Adam home to consume later. There are so many overt hints of cannibalism, I think it's a given at this point.

And I can't believe I just typed that.

Yes, exactly, that's why I laughed so hard when Natalie said that to Misty. I don't know if Nat was being serious or semi-serious or just totally sarcastic, but regardless, it was a reference to cannibalism. I never expected this show to make me laugh as much as it has, but it does the pitch-black humor so well. Despite Simone's discovery, Jackie's confrontation with Shauna, and then Jackie's death, I think this episode actually had more humor than any other this season. Nat's comment, the way Misty directed the women on how to handle covering up Adam's murder, and 95% of the class reunion...

[WaltersHair]

4 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Yes, exactly, that's why I laughed so hard when Natalie said that to Misty. I don't know if Nat was being serious or semi-serious or just totally sarcastic, but regardless, it was a reference to cannibalism. I never expected this show to make me laugh as much as it has, but it does the pitch-black humor so well. Despite Simone's discovery, Jackie's confrontation with Shauna, and then Jackie's death, I think this episode actually had more humor than any other this season. Nat's comment, the way Misty directed the women on how to handle covering up Adam's murder, and 95% of the class reunion...

I liked it much better on second viewing. It was the cult sweeping in at the last minute that got me. The Branch Davidian compound burning to the ground should have been fresh in everyone's minds in 1996 and given them second thoughts about forming one of their own. The adults in the present keep giving them a pass saying they were young. I'll give them some leeway, but even they realize the situation went too far when they got back home.

Misty is trip though. She still does not know how to read a room. That poor daughter at the funeral.

 

[Anela]

1 hour ago, WaltersHair said:

I think Nat was asking if Misty was going to take some of Adam home to consume later. There are so many overt hints of cannibalism, I think it's a given at this point.

And I can't believe I just typed that.

That's why I felt dim. :) When I saw the comments here, I thought, "of course!" 

[Black Knight]

29 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

The Branch Davidian compound burning to the ground should have been fresh in everyone's minds in 1996 and given them second thoughts about forming one of their own.

I think mileage varies on that one. I actually did read the newspaper throughout my childhood and paid some attention to current events in high school and yet I can't say that Waco in 1993 made a particular impression on me. I especially didn't really recognize it as a cult. I lived and went to school in an area where that aspect of the Branch Davidians was not really noted, and frankly I don't think most of my high school classmates could have said anything at all about it. After Jonestown, which was before my time but which I did some reading about, the next cult I was aware of was Heaven's Gate, and that was in 1997, while the girls were still in the wilderness.

[maystone]

I liked it. I showed up specifically for Juliette Lewis and Christina Ricci, but to be honest, I wasn't completely sold after the first ep. I'm glad I stuck around. As someone above noted, there was more humor than I would have expected given the story line. Hands down my favorite on-screen couple in the series so far is Misty and Nat. The actors play off each other perfectly.

I don't have a problem with there being a cult subplot as long as it's explicitly tied back to the goings-on at the Crash Pad. And the writers need to explain how the symbol that was shown carved into a tree before the girls found that cabin came to be the universal symbol for all of the girls for whatever craziness we're going to see next season.

I also don't have a problem with a supernatural aspect to the story. It seems to stem from Lottie, who's a schizophrenic way off her meds, and Van, who's shown an affinity for the supernatural and has been through a lot of trauma. I may change my opinion if the writers don't show how that belief can spread to the rest - especially to someone like Taisa.

I was not expecting to see Misty as part of the bear ceremony at the end. That's intriguing. I mean I know she's desperate to belong, but this had the markings of a secret (for now) members-only ritual. I wonder how that all came about.

I want to know what happens to Shauna's baby. If she had been rescued with an infant at side, we'd all have known about it because it would have been huge news. So she miscarries or it's stillborn. I'm really just hoping that nothing grisly happens afterwards. The writers wouldn't do that, would they? But they wouldn't have written the pregnancy arc if they weren't going to set it off. Chekhov's baby, and all that.

I don't know if they can pull this off for five seasons, but I'm really looking forward to S2 showing up.

Edited January 17, 2022 by maystone

[Cotypubby]

4 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I've already seen spec that Adam was part of the cult, which could explain his back tattoo, his cabin he was trying to lure take Shauna to, his social media absence, and his family not hearing from him for weeks.

There has to be more to Adam’s story. The most unbelievable plot aspect in this entire show, including all the goings on in the woods, is Adam being so incredibly attracted from first glance to frumpy middle-aged Shauna. And then randomly running into her at the hotel. If there was really nothing else behind that storyline, that is some terrible terrible writing. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Cotypubby

[Black Knight]

42 minutes ago, maystone said:

I was not expecting to see Misty as part of the bear ceremony at the end. That's intriguing. I mean I know she's desperate to belong, but this had the markings of a secret (for now) members-only ritual. I wonder how that all came about.

Near the end of the pilot, she was the first girl revealed (and technically still only, though Lottie and Van seem to be safe bets at this point) to be part of the animal-skins-wearing group.

I wasn't clear on why she decided to join Lottie this early on, though. Van had been showing signs, so that was not a surprise. But Misty not so much. Perhaps she just thought that Lottie was likelier to accept her at this point than the other girls, though that demonstrates more social awareness than she previously (or in the future) demonstrated. Maybe she just liked the gory aspect of it.

[Nordly Beaumont]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm just now remembering that no one, not even Ben, gave one shit that Javi was missing an entire day right after they all got high on shrooms and went insane. Even when they're having dinner, they only ask if they should wait for Travis and Natalie. That's either pretty bad writing or everyone is just kind of awful lol.

And after finding Jackie frozen to death, they should have been in a total panic over Javi being outside over night in the deadly cold.

[One Imaginary Girl]

This episode solved the mystery of the entries in Jackie's diary that mentioned things from after spring of 1996, because no one would have had an opinion on the Spice Girls then--their first single hadn't been released yet. So it looks like there isn't as much attention to detail as there should be.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

I think mileage varies on that one. I actually did read the newspaper throughout my childhood and paid some attention to current events in high school and yet I can't say that Waco in 1993 made a particular impression on me. I especially didn't really recognize it as a cult. I lived and went to school in an area where that aspect of the Branch Davidians was not really noted, and frankly I don't think most of my high school classmates could have said anything at all about it. After Jonestown, which was before my time but which I did some reading about, the next cult I was aware of was Heaven's Gate, and that was in 1997, while the girls were still in the wilderness.

Same. I was in grad school in 1996 and on the internet a lot, and the Branch Davidian story didn’t even make a dent 🤷‍♀️.  
 

This episode confirmed to me that I’ve made the right decision all of these years in never attending a class reunion (I was class of 1986.). 
 

The actress who plays Lottie gave away Jackie’s cause of death last week in her interview, but no one picked up on it. She talked about the possibility of someone freezing to death (instead of being outright murdered). Redditors were STILL stuck on AdAm iS JaVi even the actor who played Adam clearly said Adam was just a regular guy.
 

 

2 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

I think Nat was asking if Misty was going to take some of Adam home to consume later. There are so many overt hints of cannibalism, I think it's a given at this point.

And I can't believe I just typed that.

The official Showtime description of the show clearly said there would be cannibalistic clans, so yes it’s a given.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Cinnabon]

28 minutes ago, Cotypubby said:

There has to be more to Adam’s story. The most unbelievable plot aspect in this entire show, including all the goings on in the woods, is Adam being so incredibly attracted from first glance to frumpy middle-aged Shauna. And then randomly running into her at the hotel. If there was really nothing else behind that storyline, that is some terrible terrible writing. 

I know 2 middle aged men who lust after Melanie Lynskey, so I don’t find it hard to believe that Adam was into her.  Appearances mean less as we grow older, in my experience. 🤷‍♀️ The Adam arc moved the plot along and gave us tremendous insight into these women, as well as into Shauna and Jeff’s relationship.

Earlier, Shauna was on the internet and we saw that Lottie’s family had initiated a wrongful death suit, so I don’t think she’s still alive. Who knows what’s going on there.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Cinnabon

[WaltersHair]

One thing that's been bugging me. In 2021 it should be simple to find their cabin, lake and crash site. There should be police reports at the very least. Shia LeBeouf put a live image of a flag on the internet and the internet found it by mapping, finding position of stars and airplanes flying by.

Photos would be all over the internet. If Citizen Detective Misty can find Travis, all those people driven crazy by the crash story should be able to find the area. They used to give guided tours of the Donner party trail and camp.

[Cinnabon]

14 minutes ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

This episode solved the mystery of the entries in Jackie's diary that mentioned things from after spring of 1996, because no one would have had an opinion on the Spice Girls then--their first single hadn't been released yet. So it looks like there isn't as much attention to detail as there should be.

I think Shauna wrote those in Jackie’s diary after the rescue. She was shown in Jackie’s childhood bedroom with the diary at the birthday brunch.

[Cinnabon]

4 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

One thing that's been bugging me. In 2021 it should be simple to find their cabin, lake and crash site. There should be police reports at the very least. Shia LeBeouf put a live image of a flag on the internet and the internet found it by mapping, finding position of stars and airplanes flying by.

Photos would be all over the internet. If Citizen Detective Misty can find Travis, all those people driven crazy by the crash story should be able to find the area. They used to give guided tours of the Donner party trail and camp.

Why would anyone in 2021 want to find the cabin? Maybe I missed something.

[Black Knight]

11 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

One thing that's been bugging me. In 2021 it should be simple to find their cabin, lake and crash site. There should be police reports at the very least. Shia LeBeouf put a live image of a flag on the internet and the internet found it by mapping, finding position of stars and airplanes flying by.

Photos would be all over the internet. If Citizen Detective Misty can find Travis, all those people driven crazy by the crash story should be able to find the area. They used to give guided tours of the Donner party trail and camp.

Agreed, but why does it matter? The crash was in the spring/summer of 1996 and they were rescued in 1998. I don't remember any commentary during the show about people not being able to find the crash site in 2021.

I can accept Adam being legitimately into Shauna - I kind of thought that from the particular Vonnegut novel he quoted as well as his reaction before going into the hotel room with her - but I still think that his showing up at the hotel and his lack of social media presence when he's an artist need explaining.

10 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I think Shauna wrote those in Jackie’s diary after the rescue. She was shown in Jackie’s childhood bedroom with the diary at the birthday brunch.

The Spice Girls thing was a reference to what 1996 Taissa said in this episode to Van. She said that Van believed Sporty Spice was the most underrated Spice Girl.

[Cotypubby]

5 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

One thing that's been bugging me. In 2021 it should be simple to find their cabin, lake and crash site. There should be police reports at the very least. Shia LeBeouf put a live image of a flag on the internet and the internet found it by mapping, finding position of stars and airplanes flying by.

Photos would be all over the internet. If Citizen Detective Misty can find Travis, all those people driven crazy by the crash story should be able to find the area. They used to give guided tours of the Donner party trail and camp.

Do we know that there aren’t? We don’t yet know how they were rescued or if other people found the cabin.

[sistermagpie]

 

7 hours ago, Anela said:

Oh, of course Lottie survived, and started a cult. Lottie had Travis killed, and Tai is now a believer? I'm not a fan of this, either. It's like they thought they needed something even crazier, in order to get a season two. 

Callie learns that she really shouldn't piss off her mother, but she could also hold this over her head next season. 

 

Callie's got to be even more freaked out when she figures out Dad's in on it too.

Nat specifically said that Travis never believed that stuff, so he probably wasn't a follower and I'm not so sure Tai is either. At least, not consciously. Remember the earliest blackout of hers that we saw she stole Van's bone, so she might be repressing so hard stuff comes out even more.

5 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

I think Jackie gave up. Sex was probably on her bucket list, her best friend is pregnant with her boyfriend's kid, and the group had turned against her. All attempts to leave or be rescued have been a disaster. She could have gone back inside; I don't think anyone would have denied her, but dying in her sleep was preferable.

I honestly doubt she even made that much of a decision. The show made a point of reminding us, in the end, that Jackie was the person least adapted to living in the wild. She probably only stayed outside to make a point (and to show she wasn't weak) and wasn't at all aware that she was dying. 

5 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

I don't know. I hate the idea of a cult for next season.

It seems the only way to go, though, from the way things were set up from the beginning. That symbol has always been there, and it seems to be the actual secret that bonds them all together. Not cannibalism or murder.

 

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm just now remembering that no one, not even Ben, gave one shit that Javi was missing an entire day right after they all got high on shrooms and went insane. Even when they're having dinner, they only ask if they should wait for Travis and Natalie. That's either pretty bad writing or everyone is just kind of awful lol.

Seriously! Shauna's got a lot of guilt but Travis has been a pretty shitty brother from the beginning. Showing Javi how to tie a tie seems to be the most attention he's ever given to him.

4 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Allie is such a horror and as much as she obviously wishes she had been part of the plane crash, she's lucky she's not because I'm pretty sure the other girls would have killed her out there. She kicked off the pilot episode saying she'll never forget when she heard the plane went missing, that could have been her, and then her line to Jeff and his reaction made it clear that she's said that every day since in an attempt to glom herself onto other people's tragedy. It wasn't yours, Allie!

Would not be complete without something like that. I remember reading a book on a tragedy and the author said he put out an ad asking for survivor stories. He said easily most of the responses were from people who were supposed to be there that day but weren't. 

4 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I understand why they killed Jackie now. Once she confronted Shauna, her arc was done. She was at the bottom of the group and it just is hard for me to see what remaining story she would've had out there in the remaining 12 months or however much time is left before the rescue. I'm going to miss her though; I actually liked her quite a lot in this episode. Nihilistic Jackie's eyeroll in the cabin was hilarious. And then she pretty much was the only sane person in the cabin (apart from Ben, but Ben doesn't know half of what went on). Sure, it was also part of her ongoing inability to read a room, but still, it was nice to hear someone say what I was thinking. The girls casually eating and giving thanks and going on about smaller sins when they'd assaulted and nearly slaughtered a boy the previous night was crazy. It was an interesting change to see Jackie go from being one of the more impractical people to being the voice of reason, and now that she's dead, I'm not sure who that is anymore. Ben, of course, but nobody listens to him. Natalie, maybe. Tai was a little too okay with the whole Travis thing even if she wasn't part of it herself. If Javi ran the fuck away and is staying away purposely, he's another reasonable one.

I don't know if she was the sanest one, exactly. I mean, obviously she was perfectly reasonable with everything she was saying, but she was mostly just focused on her own private drama so much she wasn't quite seeing what was going on around her - and since she wasn't included in so much of it was going to roll her eyes at it out of spite anyway. She couldn't say thank you for the bear since her whole attitude was about how food was no big deal etc. Plus since she didn't eat or drink anything she didn't understand that everybody else was tripping.

 

4 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Looking again at what went down immediately prior to Jackie's death, Shauna enduring Jackie's mother's passive-aggressive comments on Jackie's birthday for 20 years makes sense.

Definitely. And also it's got another layer now that we know that the last time Shauna spoke to Jackie she was telling her how everything her mother is constantly saying is lies. So the torture of it isn't that Shauna's being made to feel like the loser who should have died, but that she's reminded over and over of Jackie's last moments.

1 hour ago, maystone said:

I don't have a problem with there being a cult subplot as long as it's explicitly tied back to the goings-on at the Crash Pad. And the writers need to explain how the symbol that was shown carved into a tree before the girls found that cabin came to be the universal symbol for all of the girls for whatever craziness we're going to see next season.

I also don't have a problem with a supernatural aspect to the story. It seems to stem from Lottie, who's a schizophrenic way off her meds, and Van, who's shown an affinity for the supernatural and has been through a lot of trauma. I may change my opinion if the writers don't show how that belief can spread to the rest - especially to someone like Taisa.

Agreed. It's the main thing that ties the two timelines together in a really plotty way.

1 hour ago, maystone said:

I was not expecting to see Misty as part of the bear ceremony at the end. That's intriguing. I mean I know she's desperate to belong, but this had the markings of a secret (for now) members-only ritual. I wonder how that all came about.

Interesting how Misty was the one to point out indignantly that Jackie didn't thank the bear. She saw her chance to make someone else the outsider and took it. But tbf, Jackie rejected Tai's attempt to deescalate that.

 

7 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

This episode confirmed to me that I’ve made the right decision all of these years in never attending a class reunion (I was class 1986.). 

Me too -- woo hoo!

15 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I know 2 middle aged men who lust after Melanie Lynskey, so I don’t find it hard to believe that Adam was into her.  Appearances mean less as we grow older, in my experience. 🤷‍♀️ The Adam arc moved the plot along and gave us tremendous insight into these women, as well as into Shauna and Jeff’s relationship.

And she showed a lot of personality in that first meeting - enough to make an impression if he was open to it.

11 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I think Shauna wrote those in Jackie’s diary after the rescue. She was shown in Jackie’s childhood bedroom with the diary at the birthday brunch.

Wasn't one of the characters the girl in American Beauty? That was practically exactly who Shauna pegged her as, wasn't it? 

 

[WaltersHair]

14 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Agreed, but why does it matter? .

Because Shauna, Misty, Tai and Nat all said the geometric symbol was only known by members of the team and the reason they paid the blackmail money. If there were photos of a the cabin, the symbol is carved into several spots in the attic and a few trees as well.

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

Because Shauna, Misty, Tai and Nat all said the geometric symbol was only known by members of the team and the reason they paid the blackmail money. If there were photos of a the cabin, the symbol is carved into several spots in the attic and a few trees as well.

I guess we don't know, too, whether the cabin survives. It might burn down at some point. Who knows?

Btw, just realized my question. Above I mentioned the show reminding us how badly adapted Jackie was to being in the wild. I was going to say she couldn't even start a fire, then remembered she had. But was I wrong in thinking that? Was the fire Jackie was sleeping next to only seen in Shauna's dream / Jackie's death vision? Or had she at least managed to start a fire? I forget.

[Black Knight]

6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

She couldn't say thank you for the bear since her whole attitude was about how food was no big deal etc. Plus since she didn't eat or drink anything she didn't understand that everybody else was tripping.

Jackie did know food was a big deal - remember, in an earlier episode she came down on Nat and Travis for hooking up instead of hunting.

I'm not sure if she understood or not that the shrooms (and horrible alcohol) were playing a role in the girls' actions. There was certainly mention of the shrooms within her hearing, but whether she made the connection isn't clear. But also, it's believed by many that getting high reveals character, as opposed to making people act out of character, and if Jackie was a believer of that, then it wouldn't matter to her if the girls were tripping. The salient point is they were about to slit a guy's throat.

One thing that is sad about the whole Jackie/Shauna thing is that we were shown in the end that those two girls really did love each other. Jackie's dying hallucination featured Shauna coming out to get her, and Jackie being happy to go with her. And of course Shauna was genuinely grieved and heartbroken to find Jackie dead - it wasn't just guilt driving that. If Jackie hadn't died, they might have been able to work things out. Jackie's hallucination and Shauna's reaction showed they wanted to.

[sistermagpie]

Just now, Black Knight said:

Jackie did know food was a big deal - remember, in an earlier episode she came down on Nat and Travis for hooking up instead of hunting.

But that was pretty obviously just an excuse to yell at them for hooking up, wasn't it?

I mean, of course I don't mean that Jackie was unaware that they were low on food and that she didn't feel hungry. But she wasn't at the point where she was going to treat the bear as a miracle that needed thinking. She was firmly, imo, not allowing herself to slip into a different mindset.

Just now, Black Knight said:

One thing that is sad about the whole Jackie/Shauna thing is that we were shown in the end that those two girls really did love each other. Jackie's dying hallucination featured Shauna coming out to get her, and Jackie being happy to go with her. And of course Shauna was genuinely grieved and heartbroken to find Jackie dead - it wasn't just guilt driving that. If Jackie hadn't died, they might have been able to work things out. Jackie's hallucination and Shauna's reaction showed they wanted to.

Definitely. It was a fight that they needed to have and had they been at home they might have gotten past it and remained friends. It's like the dark version of the fight in the movie Booksmart. 

[Black Knight]

3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I was going to say she couldn't even start a fire, then remembered she had. But was I wrong in thinking that? Was the fire Jackie was sleeping next to only seen in Shauna's dream / Jackie's death vision? Or had she at least managed to start a fire? I forget.

I just checked and she did manage to start a fire. It's at the :48 mark, before the whole hallucination thing. She's wrapped up in a blanket and shivering, but she got the fire going. She wasn't stupid enough to think that just because she was having trouble starting a fire, she should give up. Especially not when she was staying outdoors.

But snow fell later that night, and if she had been sleeping when it happened (and the position Shauna found her in suggests she'd been sleeping), she wouldn't have known that the fire went out. I think she froze to death in her sleep.

[Cinnabon]

Just now, Black Knight said:

I just checked and she did manage to start a fire. It's at the :48 mark, before the whole hallucination thing. She's wrapped up in a blanket and shivering, but she got the fire going. She wasn't stupid enough to think that just because she was having trouble starting a fire, she should give up. Especially not when she was staying outdoors.

But snow fell later that night, and if she had been sleeping when it happened (and the position Shauna found her in suggests she'd been sleeping), she wouldn't have known that the fire went out. I think she froze to death in her sleep.

Yes, she probably wouldn’t even have been aware that she was freezing. At least she had a painless death.