S01.E05: Tragically Hip

[ifionlyknew]

23 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

One of the articles I read with Michael Patrick King said that for Carrie to truly move into this age on her own, Big's dying was the only option, as he was always her "person." He moved away, married Natasha, dated other women, Carrie dated other men, etc., but Carrie and Big would always be the end game and somehow or another find their way back to each other in some manner. Until he was dead, he would always be a factor in her life in some regard.

With Big dead, she has to finally and fully close that part of her psyche/life/etc. 

I understand that however when we see Carrie moving on which I take to mean she will eventually date what exactly will that look like? What was it that Jackie O'nassis said. First you marry for love then you marry for money and finally you marry for companionship.  Is now the time Carrie finally finds a man that is right for her?  I was a Big and Carrie fan but I never thought they were right for each other.  They better not bring Aidan back and make it seem like they were always destined to be together. What are they going to say? Third time is the charm?

[T Summer]

2 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

With Big dead, she has to finally and fully close that part of her psyche/life/etc. 

That makes a lot of sense and is in line with the entire canon of the original series.  If they'd given us the show they should have -- and the one we were hoping for -- that would have come through. 

While this does sound plausible, the problem is they already gave us awful SATC movie#1 where we had to watch  Carrie  be sad and withdrawn  after   Big left her at the altar. Her friends then stopped  all activities in their own lives to care for and even spoon feed Carrie.   They can't think of anything else to do with Carrie other than have her sad and depressed over Big AGAIN (this time because he died)? To  put us the viewing audience  through once again watching her friends stop their lives to ferry poor sad Carrie through her grief, this time  literally spooning her so she could sleep.... is  too much!

5 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

I might have had them divorced.  Carrie having signed a prenup she could have had to start over. And if there was a divorce they could have shown the reality that as a woman gets older it's a lot more likely her ex is going to remarry and to a younger woman.  Carrie could have had a new stick figure with no soul to hate.

This is the scenario I would have wanted to see for Carrie. Divorced 5-10 years prior so she'd have plenty off time to get past it. Maybe even soon after she got  back from the Middle East. Big was upset with Carrie  over sharing dinner and a kiss with Aiden. Maybe that black diamond didn't quite smooth things over?

  If not that issue there was another   reason I never thought a Big/Carrie marriage would work. If I had to wait through a decade and countless  dalliances, relationships and one marriage with other women for a guy to decide I was the one, that thought would never be far from my mind. There's no amount of custom ordering furnishings and moving pillows around that could keep that thought at bay. Plus, the way Carrie acted around Big in awful SATC movie#2 was absolutely insufferable! I could see Big divorcing HER.

I  would love for there to have been  a prenup and for her to  have left with what she came in with, especially if it was a short marriage. Carrie could  draw on her experience  from when she worked at Vogue. Maybe  she'd be working for such a fashion magazine? Or maybe that one for older women Samantha was distraught about getting on the mailing list of when she thought the change of life was approaching? ...but make no mistake, Carrie would be working somewhere.

Edited January 5, 2022 by T Summer
added "movie"

[SailorGirl]

6 minutes ago, T Summer said:

While this does sound plausible, the problem is they already gave us awful SATC#1 where we had to watch  Carrie  be sad and withdrawn  after   Big left her at the altar. Her friends then stopped  all activities in their own lives to care for and even spoon feed Carrie.   They can't think of anything else to do with Carrie other than have her sad and depressed over Big AGAIN (this time because he died)? To  put us the viewing audience  through once again watching her friends stop their lives to ferry poor sad Carrie through her grief, this time  literally spooning her so she could sleep.... is  too much!

To be clear, this wasn't my idea or thought of how they should have done it  . . . this was in an interview with MPK - the showrunner -- about why the only option for Big was for him to die. Take it up with MPK! 🤣

And as I said, if they'd done the show properly, it wouldn't be just the depression over his death. It would have been the fun we had in the past (beyond her mooning over her breakups with Big -- the show was a lot more than that). 

Edited January 5, 2022 by SailorGirl

[ifionlyknew]

3 minutes ago, T Summer said:

I  would love for there to have been  a prenup and for her to  have left with what she came in with, especially if it was a short marriage. Carrie could  draw on her experience  from when she worked at Vogue. Maybe  she'd be working for such a fashion magazine? Or maybe that one for older women Samantha was distraught about getting on the mailing list of when she thought the change of life was approaching? ...but make no mistake, Carrie would be working somewhere.

The show never really liked to show Carrie actually working. Yeah they would show her typing on her laptop and she made a few appearances at Vogue but mostly we saw Carrie being free to do whatever she wanted.   Honestly I cannot imagine Carrie having a job that required her to be someplace for eight hours a day doing something that she gets paid for.  I wonder what her life with Big was like.  He had a job.  What did she do all day?  Miranda had a job until recently. Charlotte had the kids.  Samantha had some freedom with her job but she wouldn't have been hanging with Carrie all day.  Maybe she hung out with Sanford.

[T Summer]

10 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

To be clear, this wasn't my idea or thought of how they should have done it  . . . this was in an interview with MPK - the showrunner -- about why the only option for Big was for him to die. Take it up with MPK! 🤣

And as I said, if they'd done the show properly, it wouldn't be just the depression over his death. It would have been the fun we had in the past (beyond her mooning over her breakups with Big -- the show was a lot more than that). 

Oh damn.☺️ I thought I snipped the part with MPK saying those were his thoughts. I did get it was him saying that, not necessarily you sharing that opinion. sry

[Maysie]

I am not a lawyer but I don’t know that a prenup would have made much of a difference financially to Carrie with Big’s death. I think it’s the will or trust that would matter. I believe the prenup is about whether the marriage ends via divorce.

Estate planning at the main characters’ ages and income levels should be a given. It’s unfathomable to me that Carrie wouldn’t have a good understanding of what the situation would be and if she didn’t, that tells me that her relationship with Big was never really a partnership or relationship of equals. It’s basic respect to clue your partner in on the future financial plans in one’s absence. As well, how about living wills etc? Or do the people in this universe not have to worry about incapacitation or terminal illness? 

 I suppose Big might have had a prenup when they married, but for all his flaws I never got that he was stingy or retaliatory. I can see where he would have made sure Carrie was taken care of even if they’d divorced. 

 

[RedHawk]

2 hours ago, candle96 said:

I listen to a fairly popular podcast, Bitch Sesh, with legitimate comedians, and they were laughing about the fact that AJLT was calling Carrie's podcast her "job." The women on Bitch Sesh have several other jobs, they could not sustain on the podcast alone.

Well, that's one thing that's in line with the original series, in which Carrie managed to live on writing one column a week! Also, Carrie doesn't need several other jobs, she's been married to a wealthy man for more than a decade, so I assumed it was her way of keeping her name out there as "relevant" for her writing career. Maybe she would say that writing is her real job. Apparently she wrote another book? Wasn't that allegedly the reason she and Samantha fell out, that Carrie didn't think she needed Samantha to promote her new books?

1 hour ago, SailorGirl said:

One of the articles I read with Michael Patrick King said that for Carrie to truly move into this age on her own, Big's dying was the only option, as he was always her "person." He moved away, married Natasha, dated other women, Carrie dated other men, etc., but Carrie and Big would always be the end game and somehow or another find their way back to each other in some manner. Until he was dead, he would always be a factor in her life in some regard.

With Big dead, she has to finally and fully close that part of her psyche/life/etc. 

That makes a lot of sense and is in line with the entire canon of the original series.  If they'd given us the show they should have -- and the one we were hoping for -- that would have come through. 

I read that also and although the series turned out that way, the original arc, as I've read elsewhere, was that Big would be gone for good after moving to Napa. But as these things go, their relationship was such a hit with the fans that he was written back in, and I guess the writers decided somewhere along the line that he would be her "person" (UGH) and they'd eventually be together. I'm not buying that it was the plan all along. I think the decision was made when the series was nearing the final season.

Edited January 5, 2022 by RedHawk

[T Summer]

7 minutes ago, Maysie said:

I am not a lawyer but I don’t know that a prenup would have made much of a difference financially to Carrie with Big’s death. I think it’s the will or trust that would matter. I believe the prenup is about whether the marriage ends via divorce.

Estate planning at the main characters’ ages and income levels should be a given. It’s unfathomable to me that Carrie wouldn’t have a good understanding of what the situation would be and if she didn’t, that tells me that her relationship with Big was never really a partnership or relationship of equals. It’s basic respect to clue your partner in on the future financial plans in one’s absence. As well, how about living wills etc? Or do the people in this universe not have to worry about incapacitation or terminal illness? 

 I suppose Big might have had a prenup when they married, but for all his flaws I never got that he was stingy or retaliatory. I can see where he would have made sure Carrie was taken care of even if they’d divorced. 

 

Yes, I'm sure prenup or no Big would have been generous with Carrie... even if they divorced. In my fantasy scenario I'd have made their marriage a short one and her compensation not be a huge sum of money, so I could do more with her character.

 

[ifionlyknew]

9 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

 

I read that also and although the series turned out that way, the original arc, as I've read elsewhere, was that Big would be gone for good after moving to Napa. But as these things go, their relationship was such a hit with the fans that he was written back in, and I guess the writers decided somewhere along the line that he would be her "person" (UGH) and they'd eventually be together. I'm not buying that it was the plan all along. I think the decision was made when the series was nearing the final season.

As much as I liked them as a couple I never bought they were each other's soulmates or they were meant to be together all along.  I don't think any man Carrie was involved with seemed like the end game.  Now that I'm older and have had quite a few years and several re watches to look at things differently, I would rather Carrie have ended the series single.  

Now that she is single let's see what the writers do with that.

[RedHawk]

56 minutes ago, T Summer said:

I  would love for there to have been  a prenup and for her to  have left with what she came in with, especially if it was a short marriage. Carrie could  draw on her experience  from when she worked at Vogue. Maybe  she'd be working for such a fashion magazine? Or maybe that one for older women Samantha was distraught about getting on the mailing list of when she thought the change of life was approaching? ...but make no mistake, Carrie would be working somewhere.

 

13 minutes ago, T Summer said:

Yes, I'm sure prenup or no Big would have been generous with Carrie... even if they divorced. In my fantasy scenario I'd have made their marriage a short one and her compensation not be a huge sum of money, so I could do more with her character.

 

A prenup is not just for a wealthy person to keep all the money from a spouse in a divorce. In fact, a prenup like that wouldn't hold up. Most states say that there has to be an equitable, though not necessarily equal, division of assets. Few lawyers would allow a client to sign a prenup with a very wealthy person that didn't guarantee a reasonable settlement. A prenup is not for one spouse to keep all the assets, it's to specify and clarify how they will be divided if there is a divorce, and thus is useful and smart for both parties. If you know and agree in advance to the financial aspects of divorce, it tends to keep things from getting ugly and expensive in a drawn-out legal battle, and the spouse who came in with less money can feel secure that they won't be left with nothing after years of marriage. 

If reality were part of this series and the films, Miranda (especially) as well as Samantha and Charlotte would have strongly encouraged Carrie and Big to have a prenup! 

Edited January 5, 2022 by RedHawk

[kristen111]

On 12/30/2021 at 3:55 AM, qtpye said:

Guys, this was it.

This was the episode that this show became unwatchable for me.

I hated every minute of this episode and I really have not hashed out why at this point.

It just was terrible. Everything is so dang forced.  The little text just makes me miss Samantha.

What little text?  I missed the episode.  Was it Producer driven?

[T Summer]

I'd forgotten that was this episode

 

Carrie texted Samantha to say she mentioned her full name when telling her stuck diaphram story  on the podcast   [Samantha had assisted her w/ removing it] .

Samantha texted ... one of my  finest hours

Carrie texted: hope it was ok?

Samantha texted : of course  I love that  your vagina is getting air time

Carrie texted: I miss you

 

and that was it

 

 

 

 

 

[T Summer]

47 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

What little text?  I missed the episode.  Was it Producer driven?

sry. IDK how I could still be all thumbs with the quoting thing, but I tried to answer your question above.

[BrindaWalsh]

4 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

As much as I liked them as a couple I never bought they were each other's soulmates or they were meant to be together all along.  I don't think any man Carrie was involved with seemed like the end game.  Now that I'm older and have had quite a few years and several re watches to look at things differently, I would rather Carrie have ended the series single.  

Now that she is single let's see what the writers do with that.

There were alternate endings to the series, and one of those alternate endings had Carrie single.  They just didn't go there at the time.  But perhaps it is buyer's remorse?  They are using the final lines of the original series where Carrie talks about the most important relationship you have is the one you have with yourself and everything else is just the cherry on top as rationalization why they HAD to kill Big because it was never meant to be her and Big endgame, it was always about just Carrie.  Or something like that.  Which doesn't quite fit either.  Because the ending was Carrie narrating over the 4 women (I remember charlotte taking all of her puppies for a walk with Harry...) and saying those lines, so it wasn't just about her back then, it was about the 4.  But hey, why quibble with the lunacy.

Edited January 6, 2022 by BrindaWalsh

[T Summer]

I rewatched part of this last episode searching for the Carrie texting Samantha convo, which I was convinced [incorrectly]  had happened in ep 3 or 4.

Dammit, this shitshow was maddening!

I had been scratching my head over the fact it seemed Miranda wasn't working, but I wasn't quite sure? I know she was taking Professor Naya  Wallace's? class. This time   over a spicy Mexican lunch I did hear her tell Che she'd quit.  Miranda's work life was shown a lot in the original series and at the end of the awful movies she'd quit the big deal law firm to work at a smaller one. Now when she tells Che the story she says she felt trapped at the law firm so she finally just quit. That was the end of it.

So Miranda has gone from working tons of hours to just... not. Miranda who wanted Steve so badly she professed her love  for him in a closet even while Dr. Robert Leeds  was just outside helping her host Brady's b'day party. Now she hates her marriage and feels trapped and it's been that way... it seems like forever?

They already obliterated Charlotte's character beginning in the latter seasons of SATC; certainly  it was a done deal as at the end of   those awful movies. So the writers apparently thought  why not go ahead and change up Miranda  who has always been self assured and had a great moral compass, to someone who can't speak up about her dissatisfaction to her husband or her son. While we're at it make her  unfaithful  and irresponsible. Miranda was never any of those things.

They could've had Miranda coming out of the other end of a separation from  Steve where she's decided  she  wants to once again be on her own.   Carrie and Miranda could be single  for a while and THEN they could get her into this  new relationship they're dying to depict. It would have been much more in-keeping with Miranda's character.

Watching it again the sex scene between she and Che was so tainted by  not only the covering of the mouth... but having it interspersed with Carrie's frustrated face not being able to get to the bathroom or aim into the bottle  and getting pee all over  the bed. How freakin' gross! Did anyone responsible for this mess think this would be hot?

Wasn't the one scene with Charlotte helping her in the bathroom MORE than enough? I know it's all been said,  but it's just maddening!

[Rai]

I get that people don't like Che and don't like Miranda hooking up with Che. Still, I couldn't help but wonder -- Steve and Miranda both cheated on their respective partners to get back together, so why was that okay? I have a feeling it boils down to something like "they were meant to be," but stepping back to look at it, they ended up doing hurtful things to decent people. There was nothing wrong with Debbie, and Robert was absolutely terrific. (The post-breakup story line with the custody over the elevator was pretty eye-rolling.) They both led these partners to believe they were in committed, loving relationships with them and that Brady was the only connection to an otherwise long-buried love affair.

I've admitted my anti-Steve bias already, so take this devil's advocacy with as many grains of salt as y'all want. And also, I don't think Miranda's going to end up with Che. They just seem like they're having fun. But Miranda has impulsively done her man wrong before in pursuit of another inclination, and their happy ending does tend to gloss over the pain they presumably caused two other people whose only real mistake was getting involved with one of them.

Tl; dr: This isn't Miranda's first cheating rodeo.

[WendyCR72]

25 minutes ago, Rai said:

I get that people don't like Che and don't like Miranda hooking up with Che. Still, I couldn't help but wonder -- Steve and Miranda both cheated on their respective partners to get back together, so why was that okay? I have a feeling it boils down to something like "they were meant to be," but stepping back to look at it, they ended up doing hurtful things to decent people. There was nothing wrong with Debbie, and Robert was absolutely terrific. (The post-breakup story line with the custody over the elevator was pretty eye-rolling.) They both led these partners to believe they were in committed, loving relationships with them and that Brady was the only connection to an otherwise long-buried love affair.

I've admitted my anti-Steve bias already, so take this devil's advocacy with as many grains of salt as y'all want. And also, I don't think Miranda's going to end up with Che. They just seem like they're having fun. But Miranda has impulsively done her man wrong before in pursuit of another inclination, and their happy ending does tend to gloss over the pain they presumably caused two other people whose only real mistake was getting involved with one of them.

Tl; dr: This isn't Miranda's first cheating rodeo.

Sure, but let's look at the other side of the coin. Just by that very fact that Steve and Miranda had a child together, they were always going to be connected. And their break up was not hateful. So Steve getting cancer, which led to Brady, was more or less buried/never dealt with.

Sure, Steve did the half-hearted proposal that Miranda refused. But, again, they never hated each other and never really slammed and locked the door where a rekindling of a romance was concerned. Sharing a child, they would forever be around each other. And we saw in S5, well before Robert and Debbie, that something was still there as Miranda/Steve once again slept together when Miranda returned from a day out where Steve took care of the baby.

Did they cheat? Technically, yes. Sure. But their case is not so cut and dried as there was a lot of history before Robert and Debbie were a glint in Steve and Miranda's eyes.

I'm only surprised the show never really had Robert and Debbie question the state of Miranda and Steve's relationship at all, or not in any real way I can remember.

[T Summer]

30 minutes ago, Rai said:

I get that people don't like Che and don't like Miranda hooking up with Che. Still, I couldn't help but wonder -- Steve and Miranda both cheated on their respective partners to get back together, so why was that okay? I have a feeling it boils down to something like "they were meant to be," but stepping back to look at it, they ended up doing hurtful things to decent people. There was nothing wrong with Debbie, and Robert was absolutely terrific. (The post-breakup story line with the custody over the elevator was pretty eye-rolling.) They both led these partners to believe they were in committed, loving relationships with them and that Brady was the only connection to an otherwise long-buried love affair.

I've admitted my anti-Steve bias already, so take this devil's advocacy with as many grains of salt as y'all want. And also, I don't think Miranda's going to end up with Che. They just seem like they're having fun. But Miranda has impulsively done her man wrong before in pursuit of another inclination, and their happy ending does tend to gloss over the pain they presumably caused two other people whose only real mistake was getting involved with one of them.

Tl; dr: This isn't Miranda's first cheating rodeo.

That's an interesting point of view.

I think Che definately has something going on... IDK if it's all the way charisma...  certainly a beautiful smile. Somehow when I look at Che and Miranda I see two people in different stages of life. I was absolutely shocked when I looked up both actor's ages and Che is only 9 years younger. No  one here seems to think they'll end up in a lasting relationship and I'm not about to be the first.

I'd say that Miranda went ahead and responded to Dr. Robert's interest (like most ladies would) because she perceived her chance to be with Steve was gone now that he was with someone else. Steve the bartender was doing what men do. I don't think he felt like it was any great love affair he was involved in,  but we may as well  kick it for a while. The difference between their situations and this new one in AJLT ep 5  is once they had their moment in the closet I don't think Miranda ever saw Robert again  or  Steve ever saw Debbie again [romantically]. Wheras after that day in Carrie's kitchen Steve still thought he was in a marriage with a faithful partner.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by T Summer
removed "Debbie"

[Pestilentia]

17 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

With Big dead, she has to finally and fully close that part of her psyche/life/etc. 

I'm glad Big died- I always got major smarm vibes off of him. I also think he viewed Carrie as cute and adorable and fun when he felt like it, but he never considered her an equal or a true partner in his life. IMO she was always an accessory.
I think Carrie should have decided to go man-less and work on her self for a bit- find out who she is and what she wants beyond having a man. Carries needs to mature.

[RedHawk]

53 minutes ago, Pestilentia said:

I'm glad Big died- I always got major smarm vibes off of him. I also think he viewed Carrie as cute and adorable and fun when he felt like it, but he never considered her an equal or a true partner in his life. IMO she was always an accessory.
I think Carrie should have decided to go man-less and work on her self for a bit- find out who she is and what she wants beyond having a man. Carries needs to mature.

I couldn't help but wonder. . . if you haven't matured at 55, are you ever going to?

Edited January 6, 2022 by RedHawk

[qtpye]

15 hours ago, kristen111 said:

What little text?  I missed the episode.  Was it Producer driven?

I’m referring to the text exchange between Samantha and Carrie talking about the story shared by Carrie on the Podcast about the diaphragm.

 

[Zonk]

What in the hell is Carrie on about? Miranda was there. She could have called for her. I guess fucking in your friends kitchen isn't exactly good decorum, but she didn't have to piss her bed over it.

Also why did she have to piss her bed 2 seconds after waking up? In the hospital she could hold it like 5 minutes until Charlotte got her to the toilet. Seems like even if Miranda had been there the second she woke up, there still would have been a lot of piss on the floor.

[monagatuna]

5 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

I'm glad Big died- I always got major smarm vibes off of him. I also think he viewed Carrie as cute and adorable and fun when he felt like it, but he never considered her an equal or a true partner in his life. IMO she was always an accessory.
 

Me too! I don't get the love for Big or the actor, even before knowing what we now know about Noth. I think he played Big super smarmy (and well done if that was intentional) but he ALWAYS creeped me out--Big, not necessarily the actor. He was so smug and condescending. They were past middle age and he still called her "kid" and she still called him "Big," for crying out loud!

He thought she was a pretty mess, and she was, and he tried on other women--classy Natasha, sexy unattainable actress Willow, adventurous Julia--and he kept coming back to Carrie not because he loved her, but because she desperately and pathetically made herself available to him. The few times she said no to him? Once was after she engaged in an extramarital affair with him, leading his wife to break her freaking face, and another was only after a fancy Russian (another rich guy, of course) swept her away to France, only to have him make a marginal effort to win her back to New York. She'd say no, only for him to raise an eyebrow and say "really?" and she immediately said "welllll, okay." Big was not her great love. Big is a piece of shit. Carrie's pretty and desperate and that's all he ever cared about. He's rich and that's all she ever cared about. When he died, my first thought was "well, her retirement fund finally vested."

Ugh I hate that I've thought about this so much. I also hate that I spent an hour in Vegas at a SATC themed slot machine and had a blast. Actually, I take that back. The slot machine was fun and I don't regret it.

[beagletime]

2 hours ago, Zonk said:

Also why did she have to piss her bed 2 seconds after waking up? In the hospital she could hold it like 5 minutes until Charlotte got her to the toilet. Seems like even if Miranda had been there the second she woke up, there still would have been a lot of piss on the floor.

If Carrie knows getting to the bathroom is going to be difficult wear Depends just in case.  I guess it won't happen unless Prada has a line of protective undergarments.  Carrie has enough money to pay someone to sit by her bed, 24/7, just for bathroom duty.  If you have that kind of money, friend or family, don't depend on me to sit around waiting for nature to call.  I'll keep you company and bring you a tray when my schedule allows.  Miranda and Che in the kitchen is still inappropriate.

1 hour ago, monagatuna said:

 

 The few times she said no to him? Once was after she engaged in an extramarital affair with him, leading his wife to break her freaking face, and another was only after a fancy Russian (another rich guy, of course) swept her away to France, only to have him make a marginal effort to win her back to New York. She'd say no, only for him to raise an eyebrow and say "really?" and she immediately said "welllll, okay." Big was not her great love. Big is a piece of shit. Carrie's pretty and desperate and that's all he ever cared about. He's rich and that's all she ever cared about. When he died, my first thought was "well, her retirement fund finally vested."

 

Exactly!  Big makes me think of the type of person who spent time on Jeffrey Epstein's island.  Big would call and say "jump". Carrie would ask "how high".   She laid on her back in a bra.  She didn't seem to be a creative, thrilling lover. 

Big dumped her at the altar. Yes, her feelings were hurt.  After giving her a week for self pity, true friends should have given her some tough love.  Why do you want to marry a cheating creep?  He didn't love or respect her.  I never understood how this was supposed to be some great romance.  Carrie was in it for the money and lifestyle.  She was supposed to be the cutest, ditziest, free spirit that no man could resist. 

When they were cheating on Natasha and Aiden, Carrie was mad because she had to wait in a cheap hotel lobby.  Uh, you're the side piece.  You take what crumbs he throws your way.  I wouldn't be surprised if Big didn't always have something young and discreet hidden away somewhere in the world. 

I was a Carrie fan for the first few seasons.  Once she threw a Big Mac at Big's kitchen wall that was it.  She's lucky he didn't throw her out on the street for that.  The writers gave Carrie a tantrum throwing side I found uncomfortable.  She's mad at Berger for the motorcyle ride so she aggressively shoves the helmet into him.  Then demand he look her in the eye, be berated and apologize correctly.  When the Russian walks away during an argument, Carrie grabs his arm to turn him around to look at her.  Hands off Carrie! You could have called your Paris agent and ask them to let the dinner guests know you'd be late.  

Don't even get me started on the second movie.  Give your husband some space.  You share a closet, brush your teeth side by side, and lay on top of him to watch TV.   Let the man breath! 

Having said all that, I still re-watch the series and movies for the good and great moments.   Missing Samantha.  So glad Kim had the good sense to go on with her life. 

[RedHawk]

I hated Carrie with Big from the moment she stalked him accompanying his mother to church. She was the original "How to lose a guy" gal who broke all the "rules" within the first three dates.

Anyway, I sure wish the writers had figured out a better way to get Che and Miranda drunk and in a somewhat private space so they could have their first (and only?) bang. I don't get the point of having it be at Carrie's home so they could be offensive on so many levels. I mean, Che brought vodka. Did she think she and post-surgery Carrie were going to do shots? I first liked Che and thought she had good manners at the funeral (ok, aside from giving Brady a hit of her joint) but her behavior has gone way down since then.

And that whole "my family basically shrugged when I came out, they love me for who I am". Since we're checking all the boxes, why not have her story be that they didn't accept it and how she made her way and found her "family" afterward. Family estrangement happens still, quite often. I have a friend (who turned 50 yesterday) whose father thew him out of the house when he came out at age 17, in 1989. He got a full scholarship to a prestigious university and is now a CEO. Has a husband and young son, and a wide group of friends, a good and happy life. Still no relationship with his family; his dad died last year. Maybe with hateful dad gone now he can rebuild something with his mom? That's a story. Che's? Not so interesting.

Edited January 6, 2022 by RedHawk

[MBayGal]

9 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

think Carrie should have decided to go man-less and work on her self for a bit- find out who she is and what she wants beyond having a man.

So you want them to rewite her charcter too😊😊

[Scarlett45]

On 1/5/2022 at 7:48 AM, catherinejane said:

I was wondering, in the hospital scene, how Carrie did not know she was peeing?

I get she may not have felt it, physically, but surely, like Charlotte, she would have heard it?

And whilst Charlotte needed to be there to assist after, she could have maybe loitered outside the bathroom door saying LA LA LA (or run a tap), rather than just stand there :D

(i did assume the waking up with pearls on was actually way after waking up from the operation and just something the ladies did to pass the time.

I am doing a law masters in UK and it takes up most of my time - Miranda should so fail hers if it was in any way realistic!

Carrie may have been so hopped up on pain meds she would’ve been out of it- I wasn’t surprised after the way she acted. 
 

As someone who’s been a caregiver for several knee replacements and has assisted adults to the toilet my entire adult life- I didn’t expect Charlotte to stand outside. Standing there is what I would’ve done unless asked.

 

@beagletime I agree with a lot of what you said, BUT I think Carrie did have actual emotional attachment to Big so I cut her a tiny bit more slack. I think she did love him- of course she liked his money and lifestyle, but she did want him to love her back and that’s why she would act out emotionally. Compare that to Big who I always thought was just pissy he couldn’t get his way (only wanting her when he couldn’t have her, cheating on wives etc) I cut Carrie more slack. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Scarlett45

[monagatuna]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Carrie may have been so hopped up on pain meds she would’ve been out of it- I wasn’t surprised after the way she acted. 
 

As someone who’s been a caregiver for several knee replacements and has assisted adults to the toilet my entire adult life- I didn’t expect Charlotte to stand outside. Standing there is what I would’ve done unless asked.

 

I thought so too. She was super out of it and a fall risk. She was right out of surgery--she would need someone to hold her up if she slipped.

And it's SO like Charlotte to be the strongest one who's prepared to carry the heaviest person in her family. 

[EtheltoTillie]

On 12/30/2021 at 5:36 PM, greekmom said:

I totally understand where you are coming from but again, if said child wanted to be called Purple. So little Purple has a solo in the school's play.  Will Purple be named as Purple in the program or by their given name?  And if it's Purple in the program, what will Mom/Dad say when they go to the school and check out the play's program seeing Purple instead of their child's given name?

The school has a responsibility especially if the other parents are calling the kid by their chosen name instead of their given name.

Ditto and Seema. Please don't ruin her show.

In this case the school assumed the parents knew, as they were calling them Rock as if the parents already knew. So they wouldn’t have even been thinking of needing to inform the parents, which makes chastising the principal ridiculous.  That said, I do not think it’s the school’s responsibility to inform parents, as that could be dangerous, as discussed above. It’s not like calling parents when a child is sick or has an injury or is having behavior problems. 

[EtheltoTillie]

On 1/5/2022 at 2:52 PM, ifionlyknew said:

The show never really liked to show Carrie actually working. Yeah they would show her typing on her laptop and she made a few appearances at Vogue but mostly we saw Carrie being free to do whatever she wanted.   Honestly I cannot imagine Carrie having a job that required her to be someplace for eight hours a day doing something that she gets paid for.  I wonder what her life with Big was like.  He had a job.  What did she do all day?  Miranda had a job until recently. Charlotte had the kids.  Samantha had some freedom with her job but she wouldn't have been hanging with Carrie all day.  Maybe she hung out with Sanford.

Well she was a freelance writer.  This never bothered me, as she could work whenever as long as she got her columns in.  

[ifionlyknew]

11 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

BUT I think Carrie did have actual emotional attachment to Big so I cut her a tiny bit more slack. I think she did love him- of course she liked his money and lifestyle, but she did want him to love her back and that’s why she would act out emotionally.

I agree with this.  As someone who cared about someone way more than they cared about me there is a lot of frustration that comes with that. As much as I usually dislike Carrie I do understand her utter humiliation and heartbreak at Big not showing up at the wedding. She was thisclose to getting her man he didn't show up.  Once she got back from her non honeymoon I thought she acted the way any woman would act after being jilted at her wedding.

17 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Anyway, I sure wish the writers had figured out a better way to get Che and Miranda drunk and in a somewhat private space so they could have their first (and only?) bang. I don't get the point of having it be at Carrie's home so they could be offensive on so many levels.

I am not a stupid person and I don't need every plot point explained to me but yeah I don't know why the writers had Miranda's first sexual experience (or to put it another way the beginning of her extramarital affair) be in Carrie's kitchen.  If there was a man (or woman) I was attracted to enough that I am willing to cheat on my partner and our first time was that situation in someone's kitchen I would not be remembering it as some great experience.  

[T Summer]

Oh look, a podcast with  Michael Patrick King  and some of the writers that reveals exactly who to pin the blame for this trash episode on

@4:00 "episode 5 Tragically Hip crafted and written by Samantha Irving"

 

[Aulty]

6 hours ago, T Summer said:

Oh look, a podcast with  Michael Patrick King  and some of the writers that reveals exactly who to pin the blame for this trash episode on

@4:00 "episode 5 Tragically Hip crafted and written by Samantha Irving"

Good grief. They really think they are the bee's knees and their scripts are pure gold, aren't they? Listening to them fawning over each other is even worse than watching the episode.

[Artsda]

Just watched this episode, when i think this series can't get worse Che & Miranda make it worse. Her character assassination is insane.

[b2H]

On 12/31/2021 at 8:49 PM, gorgy said:

I can't quit even if I want to at this point.

• I don't mind the character Anthony taking a seat with the girls at lunch, but this was Mario Cantone smiling from ear to ear because he's excited to be one the four and it's like could you at least act like you're a professional.
• not enough Seema. spinoff Seema and the City
• too much Che. I'm pretty sure I'd like her 50% more if they didn't make her character a comedian. She sucks at standup AND every time the show has Miranda yucking it up it's even more annoying. And there's nothing I can add to the Miranda/Che kitchen debacle that hasn't already been said. She has diverticulitis, so now she gets to be overbearing. sure, okay, whatevs.
• I guess since 3 months have passed, Miranda's lecture course ended, so that's the end of Dr. Wallace??? Overall, not a great episode for the newbies.
• Rock is the type of stupid name you'd expect from a 12 year old. I also get why Rock would be more comfortable letting the world know before they're own parents (especially if Charlotte was one of your parents).
• the Samantha tease with the original theme music made me just miss the original show dynamic all the more. The texting was light and breezy and fun. What a concept
• I'm just getting mentally prepared for the sage advice from Brady's teenage girlfriend to Miranda about marriage and relationships that I'm sure will not come off condescending and patronizing.
• Anything else happen? probably. Anything else worth discussing? not really

I loved Harry’s response that, when she was six (or much younger), Rose also thought she was a dog.  

Exploring is one thing, but at that age, forcing all to comply to a twelve year old just doesn’t seem right.  I ask the reader here, would your parents have taken you seriously with this admission?  Instead, we have to walk on eggshells??  For a twelve year old who could decide tomorrow that she wants to be an astronaut?  Or something else??

At what point does society decide that children don’t get to call the shots.  They aren’t adults for a reason.  

[b2H]

On 1/1/2022 at 11:13 AM, Shermie said:

Maybe Rose was named after someone, or it’s meaningful in a different way.

Given that Harry is Jewish and Charlotte converted, I suspect that may have been the case.

[Baltimore Betty]

14 minutes ago, b2H said:

Given that Harry is Jewish and Charlotte converted, I suspect that may have been the case.

She was named for Harry's bubbie, grandmother in Yiddish.

[Baltimore Betty]

So if Miranda and Steve break up will Carrie fix Steve up with Seema? LOL, she'd eat him for breakfast! 

 

29 minutes ago, b2H said:

would your parents have taken you seriously with this admission?  

My guess is that Charlotte wants Rock to know she is being heard but yeah, how does she know this is the last stop on the exploration train for Rock, I am sure Rock does not know the answer to that so as many questions Char might have she cannot ask them until Rock has figured things out for herself.

My sister knew she was gay, my parents knew it, we all knew it but we couldn't ask questions because my sister was not at the point of fully understanding things for herself and by the time she did she was older and wiser and suddenly there were no more questions for any of us, it just was, it was just her.  Cut to now she is marrying her girlfriend of 32 years next November, yes you read that right, 32 years together.

[ifionlyknew]

11 hours ago, T Summer said:

Oh look, a podcast with  Michael Patrick King  and some of the writers that reveals exactly who to pin the blame for this trash episode on

@4:00 "episode 5 Tragically Hip crafted and written by Samantha Irving"

 

Oh for fuck sake.  Those writers can think whatever they want but just from reading this board I know most viewers don't agree with them.  And comparing Miranda's orgasm to some sort of rebirth?  Give me a fucking a break.  That kitchen scene was Miranda cheating on her husband.

So Samantha Irby doesn't want to go online because people aren't watching this show and seeing it the way she and the other writers thought we would and it hurts her feelings.   Well Samantha how many hurt feelings do you think viewers have watching characters that we seem to know better than you doing things they would never do?  

Edited January 8, 2022 by ifionlyknew

[b2H]

On 1/5/2022 at 2:27 PM, T Summer said:

Yes, I'm sure prenup or no Big would have been generous with Carrie... even if they divorced. In my fantasy scenario I'd have made their marriage a short one and her compensation not be a huge sum of money, so I could do more with her character.

 

Well, even in his will, Big provided for his ex-wife, Natasha.  Heck it was the story line for the episode with the funeral and the will reading.  Brenda Vaccaro, as his secretary, played the will reading well.

[WendyCR72]

37 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Oh for fuck sake.  Those writers can think whatever they want but just from reading this board I know most viewers don't agree with them.  And comparing Miranda's orgasm to some sort of rebirth?  Give me a fucking a break.  That kitchen scene was Miranda cheating on her husband.

So Samantha Irby doesn't want to go online because people aren't watching this show and seeing it the way she and the other writers thought we would and it hurts her feelings.   Well Samantha how many hurt feelings do you think viewers have watching characters that we seem to know better than you doing things they would never do?  

Maybe Samantha Irby needs a new profession if criticism hurts her so.

Am I supposed to feel sorry for writers that get paid loads of money? Because I really don't.

If these people wanted to tell the story they are, maybe it should have been a new show with new characters. It could have even been a new SATC reboot with 4 new women characters who could have had a clean slate. Not wrecking existing characters in the process.

[heatherchandler]

On 1/4/2022 at 8:34 AM, ifionlyknew said:

From the article:

But in our collective older age, many of us are wise enough to know that’s not the end of every woman’s story. Maybe things continue to change, and maybe everything she thought she had figured out ends up being nothing like she expected. Maybe that’s uncomfortable. And maybe that’s good.

That is not what we are seeing. That is what we wanted to see.  And the writer said the scene in the kitchen was steamy.  Yeah, no.

 

From the article-

Like two horny teens sneaking alcohol while mom and dad are asleep, Miranda and Che take shots in the kitchen. The drinking leads to smoking pot, which leads to shotgunning the smoke, which leads to a steamy, raw love scene between the two characters.
[snip]

More important, it turns into a moment when “And Just Like That …” is at its best, at least so far.

It’s no secret that a certain swath of the Twitterverse has been dumping haterade all over this series, and I’m not going to act as if I have no idea why. Yes, it’s relying too heavily on “old people” clichés. Yes, some of the dialogue is contrived. And yes, I see flaws in how the show has handled diversifying the cast.

 

This idiot writer thinks that scene was the show AT ITS BEST???  

The “Twitterverse” is hating it?  No, the hate is not just Twitter.  And it is not because it’s “old people” cliches, I haven’t even noticed any of that.  Diversifying the cast isn’t the problem, no one has said that!

Remember when the NYTimes was the Paper of Record?  It has royally screwed the pooch in so many ways but this article has made me realize that aliens have taken over the Times’ offices.

Or, this whole article is satire?

 

On 1/4/2022 at 10:35 AM, debbie311 said:

I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that Cynthia Nixon, as one of the executive producers, strongly suggested/insisted that Miranda's life mirror her own in this re-boot.

 

I believe I read an article or saw an interview that confirmed that this is exactly what happened.  CN said she would only do the show if this was her storyline.  
 

Why she thought this would be a good idea?? I don’t know.  Why the rest of the producers and writers agreed??? I don’t know… it’s like if SJP was like, “this year Carrie is going to marry Matthew Broderick and have 3 kids.”
 

It is ridiculous!  And why does she think we want or need to see her real life on this show?  If you think your life is so interesting, create a NEW show!

Edited January 9, 2022 by heatherchandler

[Sweet-tea]

On 12/30/2021 at 9:52 AM, thesupremediva1 said:

I am so very sorry I watched this.

I won’t make that mistake again.

This ep was the final straw, one last slap and spit in my face as a long-time SATC fan. I don’t know these women. I don’t buy what they’re doing. I don’t believe they all lived under a rock for 18 years. 
 

I was slugging through the bad acting, the bad writing, the obvious pandering plot lines. I draw the line at serious retconning and character assassination, which occurred in spades this ep.

This is not Miranda Hobbes. I will not reward these fools by continuing to engage with this toxic version of the show. They are punishing us for enjoying the original series. We are being taught a lesson, because they have learned one.

I feel your pain. I started watching and switched it off after a few minutes. I went back later hoping the episode would get better. The scene with Miranda and Che was vile. Imagine if that had been a male character acting that way and then trying to justify it to a friend by saying he'd "never felt that way" before. Most people would think he was a selfish, inconsiderate jerk. So why do the writers think it's all right to have Miranda behave like this? What happened to her long love affair with her husband? 

The only part of the show that halfway interested me was Carrie brief text exchange with Samantha. I miss her. Perhaps if they got Kim Cattrall back they could salvage this mess of show, but I don't know. It might be too far gone. 

 

 

[Sweet-tea]

On 12/31/2021 at 4:40 AM, Aulty said:

I wonder if  the showrunners are considering recasting Samatha.
Kim Basinger and Sharon Stone were among those rumored to potentially replace KC and with a good make-up department it could be done (Samantha surely had a few nips and tucks). I am not totally against - it would be better than the snide remarks and texts and she doesn't have to be in every episode.

I saw an interview with Kim and Piers Morgan. She said they should recast the character because no way is she returning. 

I don't know what happened with Charlotte. She was always kind of prissy and naive but not stupid. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Sweet-tea
Sorry for the double post.

[chitowngirl]

On 1/8/2022 at 6:29 PM, WendyCR72 said:

If these people wanted to tell the story they are, maybe it should have been a new show with new characters. It could have even been a new SATC reboot with 4 new women characters who could have had a clean slate. Not wrecking existing characters in the process.

When they announced AJLT and all the casting, that’s what I thought the show was going to be. The originals would start the series, but it would be turned over to the new characters and be a new show.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 1/8/2022 at 6:29 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe Samantha Irby needs a new profession if criticism hurts her so.

Am I supposed to feel sorry for writers that get paid loads of money? Because I really don't.

If these people wanted to tell the story they are, maybe it should have been a new show with new characters. It could have even been a new SATC reboot with 4 new women characters who could have had a clean slate. Not wrecking existing characters in the process.

And who got an opportunity that millions of SATC fans would dream of.  Did these writers ever watch SATC?

[Pestilentia]

Quote

Also why did she have to piss her bed 2 seconds after waking up?

If you rewatch I'm pretty sure she peed in the bottle and then spilled it in the bed while struggling to get back up/in.

Quote

CN said she would only do the show if this was her storyline.

Just how desperate were they to get the reboot going that they agreed to this?

Were the two crappy movies not enough? Did they really need so badly to do it yet again that everyone so easily agreed to wholesale character assassination?

[ifionlyknew]

3 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

Quote

CN said she would only do the show if this was her storyline.

Just how desperate were they to get the reboot going that they agreed to this?

In the new book about HBO they briefly discuss AJLT and CN is on record as saying she would only come back if the show was more diverse.  She says they showed her scripts and they were strong.  I don't know what scripts she read but these shows have not been strong.   And Kim Cattrall was not quoted in the book and there were quite a few pages devoted to SATC.  SJP, CN, KD and MPK and Darren Starr were all interviewed. So I don't know if the author didn't reach out to Kim or if she declined to be interviewed.  

[LegalParrot81]

2 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

In the new book about HBO they briefly discuss AJLT and CN is on record as saying she would only come back if the show was more diverse.  She says they showed her scripts and they were strong.  I don't know what scripts she read but these shows have not been strong.   And Kim Cattrall was not quoted in the book and there were quite a few pages devoted to SATC.  SJP, CN, KD and MPK and Darren Starr were all interviewed. So I don't know if the author didn't reach out to Kim or if she declined to be interviewed.  

I get the sense that Kim has wanted to distance herself from all things SATC for a long time.  She's closed that chapter of her life and wants everyone else to also.  JMO

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 1/10/2022 at 10:16 AM, ifionlyknew said:

In the new book about HBO they briefly discuss AJLT and CN is on record as saying she would only come back if the show was more diverse.  She says they showed her scripts and they were strong.  I don't know what scripts she read but these shows have not been strong.   And Kim Cattrall was not quoted in the book and there were quite a few pages devoted to SATC.  SJP, CN, KD and MPK and Darren Starr were all interviewed. So I don't know if the author didn't reach out to Kim or if she declined to be interviewed.  

Is this "Tinderbox"?