TV Tropes: Love 'em or Loathe 'em

[Blergh]

I have to admit being fascinated with that the Star Trek episode of 'City on the Edge of Tomorrow' which Joan Collins played a surprisingly multi-dimensional Depression-era missionary who did her best to provide aid and comfort to the destitute with the message of 'peace is the path to paradise' AND herself was enthralled with Captain Kirk . And yet, it  turned out that not letting her get run over by a car was the ONE thing that ruined the Star Trek timeline because her staunchly pacifist message kept FDR from taking on Hitler which meant that not only would the US not survive the 20th century but, gasp, Star Fleet would never be formed!  I'm not sure if they cast Miss Collins in the role due to her mainly playing femme fatales back then but it was intriguing that this character had ZERO personal ill-intent towards Captain Kirk or anyone else yet wound up being the unwitting cause of so much disaster.  FAR more bold than all the lame stuff done on Voyagers! a decade and a half later! 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Blergh

[DoctorAtomic]

4 hours ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

Star Trek quite often visited this.  The result was that there could never be a Utopia, and trying to create one was actually more destructive than when you started.

Then the Simpsons took this one step farther in a pretty clever episode.  Lisa wished for "World Peace" and her wish was granted!

So what would be wrong with world peace?  Once all humans got rid of the weapons that were no longer needed, the incompetent aliens, Kang and Kodos, were finally able to take over the planet!

X files did one where Mulder found a genie and wished for world peace. A later classic in the show run. 

[Zella]

I agree people are desensitized to it, but I also think many people are less likely to just know anyone in a war zone now compared to Vietnam, so it makes it seem much more distant and disconnected from them. I live in a more rural area, and it's still pretty common for both men and women here to join the military after high school. But most of my classmates in college had nobody they knew who was in the military. One of my friends from college ended up enlisting after he graduated--he's an Army pilot now--and he told me at one point that he felt more comfortable talking about his military goals with me than his family or other friends simply because I actually had some basic understanding of what he was talking about since I have shitloads of family who have served in all branches.

I think people were more galvanized by the Vietnam anti-war movement because the news coverage they were seeing was a shock to them and because they were more likely to have someone (whether it was a brother or cousin or friend or significant other) over there and that someone may not have volunteered to go.  

[DoctorAtomic]

I would offer "dumb af" as one way to describe it. 

A good friend said - man, if you can't look good in a tux, I got no help for you. 

They are all mostly the same. I favor a vest, but that's basically the only variety you have. I actually don't mind wearing a tux. I cannot *stand* wearing a suit. Part if it stems from 'this is how you are supposed to look to be taken seriously'. No. I don't dress like a slob, but you can take me seriously from my title, or not. I don't care. I don't really like having to wear jackets inside either. 

The tux though. You know there's an event. There's going to be some fancying going around. 

Do you ladies know that the tux pants have holes in the pockets so you can pull the shirt down? 

[TheLastKidPicked]

11 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

A good friend said - man, if you can't look good in a tux, I got no help for you. 

They are all mostly the same.

There was a comedy routine back in the nineties about this (Seinfeld, maybe?)

The joke was to dress all the men exactly the same, so if the groom chickened out, the men could just take two steps sideways and the next one in line would take over.

 

[Mabinogia]

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Do you ladies know that the tux pants have holes in the pockets so you can pull the shirt down? 

Really? that's genius! This lady did not know that. 

[Quof]

Why don't tuxedo shirts have attached manties, like male figure skaters' shirts? 

[DoctorAtomic]

Dudes aren't going to dress up like figure skaters. Also I don't know if anyone actually thought of that. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[Zella]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

Really? that's genius! This lady did not know that. 

This one didn't either! 

[merylinkid]

Yeah they can figure out how to put holes in the pockets of men's tuxes so they can adjust their shirts, but they still can't figure out how to even give women pockets, let alone anything that convenient.   

 

 

 

 

No I am not bitter, why do you ask?

[Ohiopirate02]

21 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Yeah they can figure out how to put holes in the pockets of men's tuxes so they can adjust their shirts, but they still can't figure out how to even give women pockets, let alone anything that convenient.   

 

 

 

 

No I am not bitter, why do you ask?

Oh no, designers have figured out how to put pockets into women's clothing,  they just choose not to.  Something about how pockets ruin the lines and other bullshit.   

[Blergh]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Oh no, designers have figured out how to put pockets into women's clothing,  they just choose not to.  Something about how pockets ruin the lines and other bullshit.   

Like they can't put pockets in hems  or in  pleats? Yeah, right!  Few women on TV have skirts with pockets. If they wear skirts, they carry handbags more often than not! 

[Moose135]

23 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Do you ladies know that the tux pants have holes in the pockets so you can pull the shirt down? 

I'm a guy and I didn't know that. Of course, it's been years since I wore a tux.

[DoctorAtomic]

If you put your hands in the pockets and point your thumbs toward your crotch, they're right there. You can actually pull the shirt down with your thumbs. It's real stealth. It's not like a huge hole because you wouldn't be able to actually use the pocket. 

We wore tuxedos for jazz band in high school sans jacket and with suspenders, so I probably have more hours logged in them than most.

I recall teaching this to the wedding party in my cousin's wedding.

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[Luckylyn]

I’m flashing back to the Barroness Von Sketch scene where she finds a dress with pockets and is so thrilled about it.  That’s like me when I find a dress with pockets.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Luckylyn

[Irlandesa]

1 minute ago, Luckylyn said:

I’m flashing back to the Barroness Von Sketch scene where she finds a dress with pockets and is so thrilled about it.  That’s like me when I find a dress with pockets.

My favorite wedding dresses on Say Yes To The Dress have pockets. 

[kiddo82]

33 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

I’m flashing back to the Barroness Von Sketch scene where she finds a dress with pockets and is so thrilled about it.  That’s like me when I find a dress with pockets.

I always think of the scene from Bridesmaids.  "It has pockets.  You can twirl."

[Mabinogia]

5 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

I’m flashing back to the Barroness Von Sketch scene where she finds a dress with pockets and is so thrilled about it.  That’s like me when I find a dress with pockets.

It is one of the greatest joys in life. I will pay full price for a nice dress with pockets!

[Bastet]

Every time this discussion comes up, I feel like I'm going to have my woman card taken away, because I don't give a shit about having pockets.  I think they do ruin the fit (at least on my body) of almost all pants other than jeans, and while they can be invisible on their own in some skirts and dresses, they're not once you put something in them, so I don't use them.  At home or work, I don't need to have anything on me, and when I'm out I'm perfectly fine putting the few things I need to carry - wallet, keys, cell phone, Chapstick, and, if needed, tampons - in my purse or briefcase.

When I was young, I didn't want to take a purse out clubbing (you can't safely put it anywhere, but don't want it on you when dancing), so then if there was a guy among us girlfriends we made him put everything in his pockets and, if not, we'd put everything in one purse and take turns with it.  But now?  I don't go anywhere I can't easily deal with a purse.

[Mabinogia]

17 hours ago, Bastet said:

But now?  I don't go anywhere I can't easily deal with a purse.

I'm opposite as I HATE carrying a purse and will avoid carrying anything if I can't shove it in my pockets. lol

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm a guy and carry a small shoulder bag to professional events because it contains chargers, cords, etc., tablet, wallet, and cards. You can't be running up to your room for stuff (or I stay at a cheaper hotel because I'm not paying $200+/night for 6 hours of occupancy per day). Once I leave, I have everything for the day. 

[Browncoat]

If I'm traveling, and out for the day like that, I'll carry a messenger bag -- enough space for a small umbrella, water, snacks, binoculars, etc. plus the usual purse stuff.  And on my most recent mini-break, it also held a packet of wipes and a thing of hand sanitizer.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Trope that has been annoying me lately - when the cop who is a person of color is suddenly super involved because the victim is a similar PoC.  Ice T/Fin gets his annual episode on L&O:SVU.  I have been watching some older shows and it always happens.  Seriously, I can see providing more background on culture where appropriate but acting like people only really care when the victim looks like them is a major issue.  

[Ambrosefolly]

On 11/13/2019 at 8:45 AM, Wiendish Fitch said:

And Christopher Reeve. Don't forget 6-feet-of-Yummy Christopher Reeve.

I'm sick of the trope of women being mocked for wearing granny panties, and that they should embrace their femininity and sexuality with tight, uncomfortable, impractical lacy thong panties. I wish the woman in question would just say,

"Yeah, my panties are frumpy and butt-ugly, but they're comfy as hell and I don't dig out a wedgie every 10 minutes! Comfortable is the new sexy, bitches!"

Despite Christopher Reeve's good looks, I thought he did a great job in the Clark Kent persona of being nerdy and awkward in how CR carried himself, while he had a beautiful face, there was a otherworldly quality that could believable look nerdy. 

With the underwear trope: there are full coverage underwear now that show no lines. Interestingly, Dita Von Teese, famed burlesque performer and lingerie advocate, is a fan of "granny panties" and has some in her lingerie line.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Ambrosefolly

[tennisgurl]

One of my favorite tropes: There is a love triangle (usually the main character is the central figure) with two people both in love with the same person, and while it starts out awkward between the two sides of the triangle, they eventually start to bond while the person they are both into is dithering about over who they want to actually commit to, and they become friends, or even end up deciding that they dont need the central person at all and start dating each other! 

[VCRTracking]

On 9/1/2020 at 1:59 PM, tennisgurl said:

One of my favorite tropes: There is a love triangle (usually the main character is the central figure) with two people both in love with the same person, and while it starts out awkward between the two sides of the triangle, they eventually start to bond while the person they are both into is dithering about over who they want to actually commit to, and they become friends, or even end up deciding that they dont need the central person at all and start dating each other! 

The best instance of that IMO(although they didn't date, just became friends!)

 

 

[Zella]

One of my favorites (though it is goofy and very unrealistic) is at the end of the murder mystery, when they gather everyone up for the detective to recap the case and announce who the killer is. Any time it happens in a TV show or a movie, I get excited and announce to nobody in particular, "It's the summation!" Lol

[VCRTracking]

I love those scenes and I appreciate them because they're really difficult to do. Director Sidney Lumet and cast members talked how incredibly long it was to shoot the summation at the end of MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS. Albert Finney had to memorize and do take after take of this 28 minute monologue and the other actors had to sit there listening not just for the wide shots but for his close up and all their individual reaction shots!

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by VCRTracking

[Ambrosefolly]

I hate the trope of when someone drugs another character, sometimes to the point of unconsciousness or sickness, and it is treated as either no big deal or for laughs, like the joke of Howard drugging his mother on the Big Bang Theory. @SapphireSage said on the General Hospital thread that Sonny had "outmaneuvered" Jax, when he had someone drug him and framed him for attempted rape. No, Sonny endangered Jax.  It is a drug, the person isn't just sleeping; they have lost some control of some of their organs. It is why you can't eat and barely drink water 12 hours prior to surgery, prevent someone from choking on their vomit. The only time it is treated seriously when it involves rape drugs. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Ambrosefolly

[Kel Varnsen]

20 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I hate the trope of when someone drugs another character, sometimes to the point of unconsciousness or sickness, and it is treated as either no big deal or for laughs, like the joke of Howard drugging his mother on the Big Bang Theory. @SapphireSage said on the General Hospital thread that Sonny had "outmaneuvered" Jax, when he had someone drug him and framed him for attempted rape. No, Sonny endangered Jax.  It is a drug, the person isn't just sleeping; they have lost some control of some of their organs. It is why you can't eat and barely drink water 12 hours prior to surgery, prevent someone from choking on their vomit. The only time it is treated seriously when it involves rape drugs. 

The part of that trope that always makes me laugh (because of how stupid it is) is how easy it is to figure out exactly how much drugs to give someone to knock them out (and usually quickly). No one ever gives too little so that they don't work or too much so that the person OD's. Because anesthesiologist is not a medical specialty.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Kel Varnsen

[kiddo82]

There's a scene in Hustlers when JLo and Constance Wu are experimenting with whatever drug they were using on men at the club (for dosage etc) and they accidentally knock themselves out.  

[Spartan Girl]

Everyone who is sick of using the villain as a love interest, please raise your hand.

On that note @Wiendish Fitch I remember you praising the She-Ra reboot for Adora calling out Catra on her villain apologia bullshit and while I still haven't gotten around to watching it yet, I saw that they do end up together and while it's always great to have  LGBTQ couples in shows, I was a little annoyed because because as I said, I'm sick of the villain lover trope. But was it done well, or the same villain apologia crap we always get?

[Mabinogia]

13 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The part of that trope that always makes me laugh (because of how stupid it is) is how easy it is to figure out exactly how much drugs to give someone to knock them out (and usually quickly). No one ever gives too little so that they don't work or too much so that the person OD's. Because anesthesiologist is not a medical specialty.

Seriously, even if I wanted to drug someone I'd have no clue how much to use, or what to use, or where to get something to do the trick. I live a very sheltered life. 

[DoctorAtomic]

One dose icocain powder. Done. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

On that note @Wiendish Fitch I remember you praising the She-Ra reboot for Adora calling out Catra on her villain apologia bullshit and while I still haven't gotten around to watching it yet, I saw that they do end up together and while it's always great to have  LGBTQ couples in shows, I was a little annoyed because because as I said, I'm sick of the villain lover trope. But was it done well, or the same villain apologia crap we always get?

In my not so humble opinion, I thought it was done horribly. No joke, I now hate the show in retrospect, because Catra's crimes were neatly swept under the rug. I hated it so much. 

You actually bring up a trope that bothers me: the idea that a female character has to end up together with someone, anyone, no matter how wrong or just plain stupid it is. Yes, I think it's sexist even when a woman ends up with another woman, because of the notion that a woman isn't whole unless she's paired up.

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, let me clarify: I'm not against romance, be it in real life or fiction, I am not out to shame anyone who wants to be in a relationship, and if you 'ship characters in fiction, you do you. I also agree with Spartan Girl that we definitely need more LGBTQ relationships represented in the media. What I am saying is that writing relationships out of arbitrary narrative obligation, shock value (Jon Snow and Daenerys, anyone?) or to make a statement drives me up the wall.

I think I read somewhere that She-Ra showrunner Noelle Stevenson has admitted that she prefers writing friendships to romance, and that's something I really, really appreciated about the show. Adora and Catra absolutely did not have to be endgame. At that point, Catra was responsible for so much shit, that if they wanted a redemption arc that badly, they should have gone the Darth Vader route and have her sacrifice herself. I know, I know, I don't like the "Bury Your Gays" trope either... but then, they didn't have to make the attraction between the two characters more than subtext. Hell, if they absolutely had to pair Adora with someone, why not Huntara or Scorpia (I loved the idea of Scorpia and Adora becoming close, but it never happened)?

[Spartan Girl]

Thank you @Wiendish Fitchyou saved me the trouble of watching that show. I figured it was badly done, and just seeing the shipping posts of them on Tumblr made me suspect that the Catra stuff was no different than the Reylo bullshit. It always sucks to be right.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Spartan Girl

[auntlada]

6 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

One dose icocain powder. Done. 

What if the person spent the last few years building up an immunity to iocane powder?

[Mabinogia]

24 minutes ago, auntlada said:

6 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

One dose icocain powder. Done. 

What if the person spent the last few years building up an immunity to iocane powder?

Inconceivable! 

[ratgirlagogo]

On 8/6/2020 at 7:23 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Trope that has been annoying me lately - when the cop who is a person of color is suddenly super involved because the victim is a similar PoC.

In that case you should make sure you give a big miss to good old Love Boat.  Isaac was apparently acquainted with or related to every single black passenger who ever came on board.  Even back then it was noticably weird.

[DoctorAtomic]

Isaac was pimp though. So I can buy that. 

[Spartan Girl]

Just gonna leave this here

 

[Wiendish Fitch]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Just gonna leave this here

 

Great video, but I hate that they imply that Miss Gulch from The Wizard of Oz is sympathetic. No, she isn't, she's a mean, bullying drama queen who clearly abuses her power.

Other than that, spot on.

[Kromm]

I see the stuff about the roots of Karendom before the current historical moment, especially the part about feeling entitled but it being rooted ultimately in insecurity, and I can't help but thing of what a British tradition it is.  Exhibit A: Hyacinth Bucket (which must must must be pronounced as "Bouquet" even though it's spelled "Bucket").

 

 

So is there a difference between being snobby and being a Karen?  It's all ultimately about expressions of power, so it's more than just that.  I also do think Hyacinth is sympathetic however.  Is the dividing line that a Karen crosses that she's surrendered being sympathetic?  Are Karens being mean just as much as snobbish?  

Discuss.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Kromm

[Ambrosefolly]

4 hours ago, Kromm said:

I see the stuff about the roots of Karendom before the current historical moment, especially the part about feeling entitled but it being rooted ultimately in insecurity, and I can't help but thing of what a British tradition it is.  Exhibit A: Hyacinth Bucket (which must must must be pronounced as "Bouquet" even though it's spelled "Bucket").

 

 

So is there a difference between being snobby and being a Karen?  It's all ultimately about expressions of power, so it's more than just that.  I also do think Hyacinth is sympathetic however.  Is the dividing line that a Karen crosses that she's surrendered being sympathetic?  Are Karens being mean just as much as snobbish?  

Discuss.

Karens are just shrews. The Karen was devised because some asshole on the internet was probably mad at his ex-wife named Karen. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Ambrosefolly

[DoctorAtomic]

I think also self-entitled, like they're owed something. Everything is A Thing.

I'm not going to call Karen Hill (Goodfellas) a *karen*. She was way to0 ride or die. 

[kiddo82]

The irony for me is that while I have some "Karens" in my life, the actual people I know who are named Karen are all fairly chill.  

[Kromm]

3 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Karens are just shrews. The Karen was devised because some asshole on the internet was probably made at his ex-wife named Karen. 

I have a very real, very credible theory on where the nickname started, but it seems it's not allowable content.  Instead I'll say that I think that to a degree, the nickname is inherently unfair, although the fact that it's caught on so easily means that it does vibe with people fairly naturally.  It typifies, if not the actual person who may have been the inspiration, a kind of person where for some reason we have a gut level recognition.  I image a few other "middle aged white lady" stereotypical names might have vibed almost the same. 

I can't find the video now, but I do recall Whoopi Goldberg commenting on this.  Why Whoopi?  Because her real name is... Caryn.  Yes, it's spelled differently, but that makes the situation even funnier in a way.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Kromm

[kiddo82]

I always assumed it was from the Dane Cook bit about the friend nobody likes.

[Danielg342]

I don't like the whole "Karen" thing because it continues the implication that a woman who stands up for herself is inherently "bad". Yes, most of what the so-called "Karens" complain about are trivial and fickle, with their strength being a mere front for their own insecurities, but there's no need to "genderize" this trope. Lots of men can also be insufferable, insecure jerks who complain about meaningless things.

[Blergh]

32 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I don't like the whole "Karen" thing because it continues the implication that a woman who stands up for herself is inherently "bad". Yes, most of what the so-called "Karens" complain about are trivial and fickle, with their strength being a mere front for their own insecurities, but there's no need to "genderize" this trope. Lots of men can also be insufferable, insecure jerks who complain about meaningless things.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't men who insufferbale, insecure jerks who complain about meaningless things called 'Kyles'?