S03:E07 The Assassination of Monica Lewinsky

[Guest]

Quote

The world learns about the affair and Monica Lewinsky becomes the most famous woman in America.

Air Date: 10/19/2021

[Spartan Girl]

I had been hoping there was a scene of Linda watching John Goodman as her on SNL, and tonight my dream came true. It’s what she deserved.

[Kathcart]

8 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

I had been hoping there was a scene of Linda watching John Goodman as her on SNL, and tonight my dream came true. It’s what she deserved.

 

That was pretty brutal, though. I remember watching it at the time and thinking maybe it was too much.

 I am curious whether anyone else noticed the many shots of Clinton fiddling with his eyeglasses in this episode. What in the world are we supposed to be getting from that? 

[peridot]

I felt terribly for Currie.  Bill was asking about her mom (like he gave a shit) and then encouraged her to lie about the meetings.  It was like Bill was trying to hypnotize her with the lie. 

Bill's behavior was so disgusting.  Paula and Monica meant nothing at all to him, and he was just seeing them as a problem to solve.  I can't understand that disconnect - you come on to multiple women, use your power to pressure them, and then doesn't see anything wrong with that?  He definitely doesn't respect women as he claimed a few episodes ago, he only cares for himself.

Another ego trip came into place when Starr reneged on the deal with Monica.  Was that story about his witness true? It would be terrifying to be under his power.

[choclatechip45]

Ken Starr is terrifying. Poor Betty. This episode made me feel bad for Linda which I hate. It was fascinating to see Monica overnight become famous.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Rae Dawn Chong is wonderful as Betty Currie.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Monica sees her face on national TV for the first time and frets about how they used an unflattering photo.

[hoodooznoodooz]

That judge kind of looked like Hillary.

[hoodooznoodooz]

I love Edie Falco. But she has the slightest speech impediment. And I can hear her regional accent. I think she should have worked with a coach for this. 

Next week her enraged scene reminds me so much of Carmela yelling at Tony about all the whores he’s slept with.

[Glade]

Bill was a terrible liar, his rambly deposition was not at all convincing...but I just kept waiting for him to deliver that famous phrasing where he refereed to Monica as "THAT WOMAN' and damn, he was disgusting.  That group of chuds in the writers room bouncing off ideas was gross too...but yeah, I remember when the basic take was "I don't care that he took advantage of his position to sleep with a young intern, I just think he could have sexually harassed someone better looking."  So, so many men on tv said it (special shout out to serial domestic abuser marilyn manson who I remember saying it on Bill Maher's show.)   Poor Monica, these days must have felt like years, seeing her whole life be torn to shreds on tv and even one of her former abusers showing up for his fifteen minutes as if he was the victim. 

 

[AllyB]

6 hours ago, peridot said:

I felt terribly for Currie.  Bill was asking about her mom (like he gave a shit) and then encouraged her to lie about the meetings.  It was like Bill was trying to hypnotize her with the lie. 

I have no idea if that actually happened in real life. But if it did, that in and of itself was such an abuse of power. He was forcing a member of staff to lie in a matter that was about to become one of the biggest stories in the world. It was horrific.

[blueroses]

Can anyone ID the actor in the Leno writers’ room scene - the last guy to speak who said “Bill Clinton could have had sex with anyone and he chooses her?” He looks so familiar.

[Ohiopirate02]

9 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I had been hoping there was a scene of Linda watching John Goodman as her on SNL, and tonight my dream came true. It’s what she deserved.

I felt not one iota of sympathy or empathy for Linda when she saw that SNL clip.  I love that when the story broke, everyone knew Linda was a self-serving bitch and not some crusading whistleblower a la John Dean.  She reaped what she sowed.  I did feel bad for her children especially Allison who did not deserve the fallout including having to console Linda after this all blew up.  

[EtheltoTillie]

5 hours ago, Glade said:

Bill was a terrible liar, his rambly deposition was not at all convincing...

 

I was really appalled when he said he had never even met Paula Jones.  I didn't remember that detail. 

[TattleTeeny]

5 hours ago, Glade said:

That group of chuds in the writers room bouncing off ideas was gross too...but yeah, I remember when the basic take was "I don't care that he took advantage of his position to sleep with a young intern, I just think he could have sexually harassed someone better looking."  So, so many men on tv said it (special shout out to serial domestic abuser marilyn manson who I remember saying it on Bill Maher's show.)   Poor Monica, these days must have felt like years, seeing her whole life be torn to shreds on tv and even one of her former abusers showing up for his fifteen minutes as if he was the victim. 

 

Seriously, ugh! Even back then, when I was less aware of all of the many levels of systemic sexism, I was bothered by this. I recall thinking back then (and still now) that the media practically acted as if Monica herself invented oral sex -- presumably because she was just such a unique kind of slut, I guess? They acted as if she was somehow more depraved than others who partake in extramarital affairs.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, blueroses said:

Can anyone ID the actor in the Leno writers’ room scene - the last guy to speak who said “Bill Clinton could have had sex with anyone and he chooses her?” He looks so familiar.

The top cast list is here:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10763732/?ref_=ttep_ep7

Full cast here:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10763732/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_cl_sm

Hopefully it helps?

[TheGreenKnight]

At least they acknowledged how stalkery Lewinsky was at several points in this episode. A lot of this one felt like invention, but that's what I expected once they moved on from the interactions between Tripp and Lewinsky, which are known more exactly because of the tapes, than things like Hillary's reaction, what people were thinking or doing behind-the-scenes, and so on.

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I felt not one iota of sympathy or empathy for Linda when she saw that SNL clip. 

I do feel some sympathy for Linda with the attacks on her appearance.  I think she is an awful person, but how she looks really has nothing to do with anything.

I wish we had gotten more interactions between Hillary and Bill before this episode just to see how they are with one another when they are not engulfed in a massive scandal.  She's been such a non-presence in the series up to this point. 

[xhoipolloix]

This episode brought back my utter disgust for Jay Leno and Ken Starr. 

[lovinbob]

I felt some sympathy for Linda and disgust for the SNL characterization because it was lazy, unoriginal, and misogynist. When in doubt, assail a woman's looks. It's like the lowest form of humor. (Not surprising that the Leno writers room was all white men--it just goes to show you that a lack of diversity generally leads to a lack of originality.)

I'm more ashamed of myself for having been critical of Monica at the time. TMI perhaps, but I'd given my share of BJs when I was her age.

I was pleasantly surprised by Edie Falco. They did a good job with the hair to help form the characterization. But even though I don't think she really resembles Hillary, her manner felt right for how I'd expect Hillary to behave behind the scenes. 

UGH, Bill Clinton disgusts me so much! Pathetic, manipulative man. He took advantage of Monica (and, I assume, Paula, though he never admitted it), and he both betrayed Hillary and depended on her to clean up his mess. He behaved like she was his mother. And then that scene with Dick Morris--that lowlife was the only person he was honest with! 

Linda comparing herself to John Dean was several bridges too far. 

I enjoyed the Mad Men casting of Patrick Fischler as Sidney Blumenthal and more obscure, but I believe the guy who played Mike McCurry was in one episode as one of Joan's dates.

[ifionlyknew]

12 hours ago, peridot said:

Another ego trip came into place when Starr reneged on the deal with Monica.  Was that story about his witness true? It would be terrifying to be under his power.

Yep. Her name is Susan McDougal. She was sentenced to 18 months for contempt of court for refusing to answer questions regarding Whitewater in a grand jury.  Clinton pardoned her before he left office. 

29 minutes ago, xhoipolloix said:

This episode brought back my utter disgust for Jay Leno and Ken Starr. 

Jay Leno was already on my shit list for his Dancing Ito's during the OJ trial.  I was always baffled when people would say he was the nice guy of late night.  Ken Starr was and is an awful human being.  Even before this series anytime I would see or hear his name I would think you asshole.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, lovinbob said:

I enjoyed the Mad Men casting of Patrick Fischler as Sidney Blumenthal and more obscure, but I believe the guy who played Mike McCurry was in one episode as one of Joan's dates.

LOL, I think of Patrick as being from Mulholland Drive.  But yeah, he's been in a lot of stuff.  

[BingeyKohan]

sorry for the very functional, not content related post - but is anyone else having the episode not show up on iTunes? I could have sworn I'd watched all earlier ones even earlier after initial broadcast and didn't experience a delay...

[Glade]

7 hours ago, AllyB said:

I have no idea if that actually happened in real life. But if it did, that in and of itself was such an abuse of power. He was forcing a member of staff to lie in a matter that was about to become one of the biggest stories in the world. It was horrific.

It happened: and it was even on a damn Sunday that he called her into the office for this:

Quote

Clinton meeting with Betty Currie to get on the same page
“This happened. In that deposition, when they’re asking all these specific questions about Monica, I think he freaks out and is like, ‘Who’s the person who could help me corroborate that I didn’t do anything wrong?’ Because one of the specific questions was, ‘Were you alone together?’ And then he concludes that Betty Currie can say that we weren’t alone together because she was present at her desk. So he calls her and asks, ‘Can you come in tomorrow?’ And this is on a Sunday, which is very unusual. He sits down with her and goes through these questions or these recollections to make sure she agrees. She testifies about this later and says it was clear to her that he just wanted her to agree with what he was saying rather than challenge his recollections. But she would also say that she didn’t know more or that didn’t feel that she really would contradict those recollections.”

https://www.vulture.com/article/fact-check-acs-impeachment-episode-7-the-assassination-of-monica-lewinsky.html

[BeatrixK]

Even though her looks were a cheap shot -- Tripp reaped what she'd sowed.  As one who remembers a lot about this (I worked at a newspaper during that time -- kinda hard to avoid it.), there was a 'What kind of 'friend' does that crap to a 'friend'?, and I'm sure, given that Paulsen is utterly killing every second she's on screen as Tripp, that Tripp's expectation of how she was perceived and the reality differed so much she had to have been in utter shock, and by the time you're being skewered on SNL by John Goodman in drag...girl....you are not making it to America's Favorite Whistleblower any time soon.

I am curious if Lucianne Goldberg will re-emerge, because I do remember some kinda wierd 'fight' she and Michael Moore got into in the later stages and Moore rented an apartment across the street from Lucianne and put a camera on her 24/7, and put notes to her in the window.  I am not sure what started it...but Moore inserted himself in it with a vengeance. It was super weird, but also just another act in the three ring circus that was Clinton's impeachment.

[Emma Snyder]

2 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

Paulsen is utterly killing every second she's on screen as Tripp

Pretty amazing that this is the same person who played Marcia Clark in the 1st ACS. The way she could act, and look, like the person she is portraying is something else.

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I wish we had gotten more interactions between Hillary and Bill before this episode just to see how they are with one another when they are not engulfed in a massive scandal. 

I do too. In this episode, for example, it would have been nice to have some context, as it appeared that Hillary took Bill's word on face value that the allegations were false. I find it hard to believe that she, or really pretty much any wife, for that matter, would have such a calm approach about it all.

[chlban]

1 minute ago, Emma Snyder said:

Pretty amazing that this is the same person who played Marcia Clark in the 1st ACS. The way she could act, and look, like the person she is portraying is something else.

I do too. In this episode, for example, it would have been nice to have some context, as it appeared that Hillary took Bill's word on face value that the allegations were false. I find it hard to believe that she, or really pretty much any wife, for that matter, would have such a calm approach about it all.

I am not surprised at all. For all her obvious intelligence, Hillary has always been an idiot when it comes to Bill. Women like that always make me sad. 

[poeticlicensed]

Clinton was awful terrible and such a liar. But the last scene with Monica, watching Bill on TV denying he ever had sex with her.  she seems stunned. I mean seriously what planet did Monica live on? I think she was secretly harboring a fantasy that Bill would get up there and profess his love. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by poeticlicensed

[Empress Josephine]

22 hours ago, peridot said:

I felt terribly for Currie.  Bill was asking about her mom (like he gave a shit) and then encouraged her to lie about the meetings.  It was like Bill was trying to hypnotize her with the lie. 

Bill's behavior was so disgusting.  Paula and Monica meant nothing at all to him, and he was just seeing them as a problem to solve.  I can't understand that disconnect - you come on to multiple women, use your power to pressure them, and then doesn't see anything wrong with that?  He definitely doesn't respect women as he claimed a few episodes ago, he only cares for himself.

Another ego trip came into place when Starr reneged on the deal with Monica.  Was that story about his witness true? It would be terrifying to be under his power.

What pisses me off about it too was he was acting all sanctimonious with Monica (when she was emotional and upset) for yelling at Betty. On his high horse saying, "Betty didn't come out the Jim Crow South to deal with your nonsense." Or something to that effect. And yet here he is doing that shit to her. He is disgusting on every level and I feel really angry for the shit he put Paula Jones through. He is a piece of garbage.

[LADreamr]

2 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

Clinton was awful terrible and such a liar. But the last scene with Monica, watching Bill on TV denying he ever had sex with her.  she seems stunned. I mean seriously what planet did Monica live on? I think she was secretly harboring a fantasy that Bill would get up there and profess his love. 

She wasn't exactly in a clear-headed place, though.  Besides being in the most terrifying time of her life, she hadn't had a chance yet to outgrow all the damage done to her by the men that led to Clinton, and then was manipulated by him for years.  I'm not sure if she expected a declaration of love, but surely not the insult of his indignant denial.  Who knows what everything she went through, did to the way her mind processed any of this?

[hoodooznoodooz]

I’m listening to Linda Tripp interviews. She really tries to give the impression that this relationship was unhinging Monica.

[MsTree]

16 hours ago, xhoipolloix said:

This episode brought back my utter disgust for Jay Leno and Ken Starr. 

What about Letterman, Joy Behar, Bill Maher, etc.???  They ALL made fun of Monica.

[Emma Snyder]

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I view her behavior as her way of coping.  She does not get too riled up until she knows everything and can make a plan. 

Good point, her behavior was more like "OK, what are we gonna do about this now" and wait to worry about how it affected her later.

[laprin]

On 10/20/2021 at 2:40 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

I love Edie Falco. But she has the slightest speech impediment. And I can hear her regional accent. I think she should have worked with a coach for this. 

Next week her enraged scene reminds me so much of Carmela yelling at Tony about all the whores he’s slept with.

Edie is the only misstep as far as casting. Although Beanie would never have been my first choice for Monica, she’s done a good job of embodying the essence of her. This can’t be said of Edie’s portrayal of Hillary. It’s still Edie playing Hillary. 

[Spartan Girl]

It really was sickening how many “friends” of Monica came out for their 15 minutes of fame, including her garbage teacher, who had the nerve to play the play the victim and smear her in the role of a psychotic stalker when he was the one who strung her along even after he got married.

For all the crap people here gave Monica for how she acted in the affair with Clinton, she did recognize how she must have looked when she saw that clip of herself in the receiving line. Sometimes actions we believe make sense to us at the time look VERY different in when seen through the harsh light of a camera.

[ifionlyknew]

29 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

For all the crap people here gave Monica for how she acted in the affair with Clinton, she did recognize how she must have looked when she saw that clip of herself in the receiving line. Sometimes actions we believe make sense to us at the time look VERY different in when seen through the harsh light of a camera.

I do think Monica became self aware of her own actions.  You are right.  We don't always see what we are doing objectively.  I do have to say I think Monica learned from what happened. Pretty sure Bill Clinton did not.

[poeticlicensed]

32 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I do think Monica became self aware of her own actions.  You are right.  We don't always see what we are doing objectively.  I do have to say I think Monica learned from what happened. Pretty sure Bill Clinton did not.

Of course. Pretty much any 24 year old  in that  firestorm will act like a 24 year  old. I think we are all grateful not to have our 24 year old selves recorded for posterity. I still bristle at the blame and mockery that were flung her way. It was brutal. The difference is that she emerged a better person and Bill did not.

Edited October 21, 2021 by poeticlicensed

[LADreamr]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

For all the crap people here gave Monica for how she acted in the affair with Clinton, she did recognize how she must have looked when she saw that clip of herself in the receiving line. Sometimes actions we believe make sense to us at the time look VERY different in when seen through the harsh light of a camera.

But I think it also may have been because she was being framed that way.  When that clip was first released back then, she didn't look like a stalker to me, at all.  I don't know if people hadn't been so brutal to her, if she would have thought that of herself.

[Milburn Stone]

On 10/20/2021 at 11:44 AM, BingeyKohan said:

sorry for the very functional, not content related post - but is anyone else having the episode not show up on iTunes? I could have sworn I'd watched all earlier ones even earlier after initial broadcast and didn't experience a delay...

Yes, for some reason it wasn't available on iTunes last night (a full day after broadcast). Wonder if it's there now.

[toodywoody]

It's pretty sad that no one was condemning her high school teacher for having an inappropriate relationship with his student. Mary Kay was lynched for it and so should have the guy that was involved with Monica. The way that Bill basically just got off scot free because people thought he was so great.  The way the press and comedians went after Monica was just nasty. I feel like she got all the blame for a grown ass man that was known for having affairs and the whole thing was wrong but he should have been put through the ringer also.

[chlban]

On 10/21/2021 at 6:29 AM, Spartan Girl said:

It really was sickening how many “friends” of Monica came out for their 15 minutes of fame, including her garbage teacher, who had the nerve to play the play the victim and smear her in the role of a psychotic stalker when he was the one who strung her along even after he got married.

For all the crap people here gave Monica for how she acted in the affair with Clinton, she did recognize how she must have looked when she saw that clip of herself in the receiving line. Sometimes actions we believe make sense to us at the time look VERY different in when seen through the harsh light of a camera.

I keep thinking of how behaviors look with the passage of time, and more important maturity. I am ashamed to say I never gave much thought to Monica's feelings when I was laughing at Leno's, and other, jokes. I did stupid things in my 20's that I am not proud of. Yes  sleeping with married person is wrong, but I have always felt the married person was the "most wrong", because they are the ones breaking a promise. She found herself in the orbit of the most powerful man in the world. A crush doesn't surprise me, what does is Clinton being so freaking smug or stupid. If you are going to cheat in the White House, at least stick to mature women. And then to lie, under oath about it? Really disgusting on every level. Monica is right about one thing, he owes her an apology.  

 

[chlban]

On 10/21/2021 at 7:06 AM, ifionlyknew said:

I do think Monica became self aware of her own actions.  You are right.  We don't always see what we are doing objectively.  I do have to say I think Monica learned from what happened. Pretty sure Bill Clinton did not.

And Monica was still, in many ways a child. She was a spoiled only child of divorced parents who obviously coddled her in many ways. As you said  at least she seems to have learned. Bill Clinton had a fairly succesful Presidency, but will always be remembered as the guy that couldn't keep it in his pants.

[kj4ever]

I think the writer's room was so telling.  As a society we are so used to giving the man a pass because some sexy amoral woman tempted them and they were defenseless to say no.  We do this from the time they are in school, dress codes because boys can't be responsible for their behavior in school.

Because Monica didn't fit that mold, they were surprised.  It didn't fit the dialog that a man just can't help himself with a traditionally sexy woman, and they didn't know what to do with it.

[dubbel zout]

On 10/19/2021 at 11:34 PM, peridot said:

I felt terribly for Currie.

There was so much collateral damage. Betty Currie and a lot of other people ended up with huge legal bills in order to protect themselves from this entire mess.

On 10/20/2021 at 11:13 AM, txhorns79 said:

I do feel some sympathy for Linda with the attacks on her appearance.  I think she is an awful person, but how she looks really has nothing to do with anything.

Same. All the women were torn apart by the press for their looks, as if it makes any difference to what happened. Ugh. We aren't past that today, either.

[LADreamr]

9 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Same. All the women were torn apart by the press for their looks, as if it makes any difference to what happened. Ugh. We aren't past that today, either.

Exactly.  And looking back at the footage of that time, neither of them were even that big (not that that should ever be a factor, anyway). It was just not only cheap and mean, but also so wrong.

[hoodooznoodooz]

I listened to the WWCL podcast with Annaleigh Ashford. Paula Jones was not happy with her portrayal. She wishes that she had had some input.

[dubbel zout]

I didn't think her portrayal was so bad. She seemed naive and overwhelmed, both of which are entirely understandable. Hell, that describes Monica Lewinsky.

[laprin]

On 10/21/2021 at 10:23 PM, toodywoody said:

It's pretty sad that no one was condemning her high school teacher for having an inappropriate relationship with his student. Mary Kay was lynched for it and so should have the guy that was involved with Monica. The way that Bill basically just got off scot free because people thought he was so great.  The way the press and comedians went after Monica was just nasty. I feel like she got all the blame for a grown ass man that was known for having affairs and the whole thing was wrong but he should have been put through the ringer also.

I am taking pleasure in seeing Bill Clinton’s legacy take the hit he deserves. This is Monica’s time to reframe the narrative in her favor, and it’s working. If this show had aired prior to “Me Too” I’m not sure Monica would be receiving the redemptive arc she is now getting on social media. 

[lovinbob]

22 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I didn't think her portrayal was so bad. She seemed naive and overwhelmed, both of which are entirely understandable. Hell, that describes Monica Lewinsky.

I think Ashford is great, but compared with Monica, the Paula character is fairly one dimensional. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by lovinbob

[hookedontv]

On 10/21/2021 at 10:23 PM, toodywoody said:

Mary Kay was lynched for it and so should have the guy that was involved with Monica.

Mary Kay Letourneau first raped her student when he was 12-13 years old so…