Maid - General Discussion

[AnimeMania]

Maid Season 1 airs Friday, October 1, 2021 on Netflix.

Based on a 2019 memoir by Stephanie Land entitled “Maid: Hard Work, Low Pay, and a Mother’s Will to Survive”, this 10 episode drama about a single mother, Alex, (Margaret Qualley) who turns to housecleaning to "barely" make ends meet as she escapes an abusive relationship with her boyfriend Sean (Nick Robinson) and overcomes homelessness to create a better life for her and her daughter Maddy (Rylea Nevaeh Whittet), who's father is an alcoholic that they try to avoid. 
 
Margaret Qualley's mother in real life, Andie MacDowell, plays Alex's “undiagnosed bipolar” artist mother Paula, who makes terrible choices in men.

Hank (Billy Burke) is Alex's estranged dad.

Yolanda, Alex's boss (Traci Vilar) constantly applies pressure for Alex to do better.

Regina (Anika Noni Rose) is a client, a lawyer who is overwhelmed by motherhood and forms a bond with Alex, seeking advice and sharing dreams of becoming a writer and freeing herself from her abusive boyfriend.

Denise (BJ Harrison) is Alex's spiritual mother.

Toby Levins (Basil), Erin Karpluk (Sharlene), Xavier de Guzman (Ethan), Aimee Carrero (Danielle), and Raymond Ablack (Nate) also star.

[Empress1]

Am going to get through this this weekend, I think. I just watched the first episode and I think it’s going to be good.

The ticker on the side whenever she earns or spends money is useful. It was heartbreaking to see her expect to make $500 (which is still nothing) and see it drop to $37.50 minus gas and cleaning supplies. Then to see the accident and see her drop deep into the hole was harrowing. One of the most pervasive and IMO damaging myths we perpetuate in this country is the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” myth and in the first episode, this show does a good job of skewering it.

It was so gross the way her first client spoke to her. “Can you read?” Like, she’s a person! Good grief. It’s Anika Noni Rose so I assume she’ll be important later.

I would have been so, so tempted to take some of that food, I won’t lie. That fruit looked delicious. I’d be trying to stuff a mango or some grapes in my pocket. I can’t stand wasting food; if I know I’m going to be away I let my food run all the way down & don’t buy more until I’m back.

[LADreamr]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Am going to get through this this weekend, I think. I just watched the first episode and I think it’s going to be good.

 

I don't think you'll be disappointed.  I binge watched it all today and it was so good. So well written, acted and directed.  Still processing it, but I thought it was very impressive.

[Lady Calypso]

I've watched the first three episodes last night and I'm really, really enjoying it. A lot of superb moments, both writing wise and acting wise, and I'm definitely excited to watch more today.

It was rough to watch Alex have to drop so low in the first episode because things just kept happening. Her abusive boyfriend being a complete dick, her mother being so narcissistic and unaware of her daughter's needs, the car accident where she was simply just trying to keep her daughter happy, her father who couldn't afford giving her a home because, I presume, his second wife wouldn't have approved, her client who treated her like an idiot, and the constant flux of money she earned and then had to spend. 

And it was hard to watch Alex struggle to even ASK for help and even admit that she was being abused but also the show discussing why emotional abuse is so tricky in the eyes of the law to prove. And it's interesting because they're showing Sean as an abuser but also showing that both of their childhoods had been messed up. Not that I'm rooting for Sean in any way, but they're adding just enough layers to him to not necessarily be on his side but show that he's messed up for some valid reasons (and some not so valid reasons) and he's still somewhat trying. Not that Alex should ever get back together with him, but they still have to be civil for Maddy's sake, and that makes it tricky if he's unwilling to try.

I am very impressed by this show, one that I hadn't even heard of until it popped up in my recommended list on Netflix last night, but I'm so glad I clicked to watch it.

And may I say that Margaret looks SO SO much like her mother. Even if her mother wasn't also on the show, I would have noticed it immediately. 

[QQQQ]

So many of the same issues and themes related to systemic poverty covered in the book Nickel and Dimed (also excellent).

[Empress1]

7 minutes ago, QQQQ said:

So many of the same issues and themes related to systemic poverty covered in the book Nickel and Dimed (also excellent).

That book is so, so good.

Anika Noni Rose not recognizing Alex made me so mad. I loved when Alex called her a cheap motherfucker.

I laughed when Alex flashed back and was pounding her head on the mic for not pursuing the cute (much cuter than Sean, IMO) engineer at the same time she met Sean.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Empress1

[LADreamr]

6 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

And may I say that Margaret looks SO SO much like her mother.

She does, but - and I don't mean this to be mean, at all - I think she's a far superior actress.

ETA: I've seen some criticism of the series moving slowly, but I'm actually glad it does.  Growth like this is slow, and the atmosphere that leads to these situations, really complex.  I'm glad they were able to show that no one is all good or bad, but that some red flags, regardless of nuance, complexity, even empathy, need to stay red, and taken seriously.

Edited October 2, 2021 by LADreamr

[QQQQ]

35 minutes ago, LADreamr said:

She does, but - and I don't mean this to be mean, at all - I think she's a far superior actress.

I would agree. Weird thinking Andie was this age in St. Elmo's Fire. Where have the years gone?!

[LADreamr]

It occurred to me near the end, that Alex is in every scene.  Margaret Qualley carried ten heavy hours on her shoulders, and did it exceptionally well.  

So did the little girl playing Maddy (just one child, not twins).  I wondered if they shot the series mostly in sequence, because it seems like we watch her grow up.

[greekmom]

Felt so bad for Alex as she never realizes that the people around her (her ex, her friends and her mother) are toxic. Especially with the fact that they kicked her out of that sweet rental situation she had in episode 5 because of the party. I am not sure why she keeps going back and trying to have a relationship with her mother when her mother clearly doesn't want one.

I also feel bad that the girl just cannot catch a break. That the system is broken (US and Canada) and people should be paid a living wage. I have always maintained that a living wage will not only decrease the need for social assistance, it will pump money back into the economy.

I am glad Alex went back to the shelter and got help from the one client with the baby.

I remember reading this when it came out. Was her mom this bat shit crazy in the book? I didn't feel sorry for her at all when Alex found out she was homeless. I don't know why but when Alex needed her, her mother let her down countless times.

[QQQQ]

I think Alex did realize how toxic her family members were, but due to lack of financial resources she kept being drawn back to them. Actually, when one considers the number of adverse childhood experiences Alex suffered (emotional abuse/neglect, parental mental illness, mother treated violently, household substance abuse, not being raised by both biological parents), it's amazing she was doing as well as she was.

[meredithalmighty]

Watched the first three episodes. It's really been making me think.

[Bookish Jen]

On 10/2/2021 at 11:29 AM, Empress1 said:

That book is so, so good.

 

I actually wrote a review of the book:

https://thebookselfblog.wordpress.com/2019/07/26/book-review-maid-hard-work-low-pay-and-a-mothers-will-to-survive-by-stephanie-land/

Maid covers issues that really concern me-poverty, mental health, income inequality, the struggling to survive, etc. I hope this series opens people's minds of what it's like to be poor in the "richest country in the world." 

[RachelKM]

On 10/3/2021 at 9:53 AM, greekmom said:

I am not sure why she keeps going back and trying to have a relationship with her mother when her mother clearly doesn't want one.

This was somewhat traumatic to watch for me because I absolutely understand why she goes back.  My mother was not as exaggerated as Paula was presented, at least not most of the time.  Though she was capable of being totally, manically fixated and excited about things (during my life it was at various times politics, Native American ruins, and ultimately visiting small towns in Mexico and participating various pilgrimages).

At any rate, I also was raised primarily by her and she was great fun and scary and worrying and loving and spiteful and volatile and she was my mom.  And there was always a sense as long as I can remember that there was something a little brittle or fragile in her which made me want to help her.  I left my hometown when I was 20. I was lucky that I had a slightly less nuts father to live with for a year while I got settled else where.

But it was really hard not to feel like I was doing something wrong cutting my mom out of my regular life and limiting contact to what I could handle.  

Edited October 5, 2021 by RachelKM
Typos

[QQQQ]

2 hours ago, RachelKM said:

This was somewhat traumatic to watch for me because I absolutely understand why she goes back.  My mother was not as exaggerated as Paula was presented, at least not most of the time.  Though she capable of being totally, manically fixated and excited about things (during my life it was at various times politics, Native American ruins, and ultimately visiting small towns in Mexico and participating various pilgrimages).

At any rate, I also was raised primarily by her and she was great fun and scary and worrying and loving and spiteful and volatile and she was my mom.  And there was always a sense as long as I can remember that there was something a little brittle or fragile in her which made me want to help her.  I left my hometown when I was 20. I was lucky that I had a slightly less nuts father to live with for a year while I got settled else where.

But it was really hard not to feel like I was doing something wrong cutting my mom out of my regular life and limiting contact to what I could handle.  

Thank you for sharing. As I was watching the dynamics between Alex and her mother, I was thinking it was an example of parentification - when child-parent roles are reversed, often as a result of the parent being immature, mentally ill, or unstable.

[Straycat80]

I am three episodes in, I think it’s really good so far. Some of this story hit home for me, especially where she goes back to the Mom even though it’s a toxic relationship. You can feel like you have no one, but sometimes the Mom can be there for you when you need them the most even if the relationship is at times not good. 

[Shermie]

Watched it all and loved it. The acting all around was stellar, and I have to give props to the little girl who played Maddy. Her interactions with her parents was so natural; she wasn't a typical cutesy smart mouth movie kid. 

I didn't know they were real-life mother and daughter. I thought Andie McDowell was amazing as the narcissistic bipolar mother. My mother is similar, but on a lesser scale. She always had someone to take care of her, but since my Dad died and I'm in charge of her life, I have a front row view of how helpless she really is. And that narcissism of hearing her daughter tell her something interesting or sharing great news, and then have her mother totally ignore it and start rambling about some trivial self-centred thing? Yeah, been there.

I was getting angsty watching; she would get a break and things would be looking up for her, and then her mother or boyfriend  do something to screw things up for her. Two steps forward, two steps back. I was aftraid that it would end with her in the same place she started, and have that be the message,

Quote

Maid covers issues that really concern me-poverty, mental health, income inequality, the struggling to survive, etc. I hope this series opens people's minds of what it's like to be poor in the "richest country in the world." 

I'm glad you put richest country in the world in quotes, because I'm so sick of hearing that. There is no way that a country that doesn't provide health care or mat leave to its citizens can be considered rich in any way. It's a false narrative that too many Americans have accepted as truth because they're too uninformed about the real world. This show just proves it.

[Brn2bwild]

Almost all of these episodes has had me screaming: "Get a lawyer!"  The custody situation, the mold infestation, the tenants who refuse to leave.  On and on.

I realize the point of this is to show how helpless and ignorant of the system Alex is, but all I could think during that mold infestation episode was the six-figure settlement she could get if she only knew to retain a plaintiff's attorney.

ETA: And then her boss fires her and refuses to give her the final paycheck that same day? Don't know about Washington, but in California, that's illegal.  

Edited October 6, 2021 by Brn2bwild

[Rambunctiouscurls]

33 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

Almost all of these episodes has had me screaming: "Get a lawyer!"  The custody situation, the mold infestation, the tenants who refuse to leave.  On and on.

I realize the point of this is to show how helpless and ignorant of the system Alex is, but all I could think during that mold infestation episode was the six-figure settlement she could get if she only knew to retain a plaintiff's attorney.

My thoughts exactly. Instead of shaming her, the pediatrician should have suggested an attorney.

[endure]

On 10/4/2021 at 8:36 AM, Bookish Jen said:

I actually wrote a review of the book:

https://thebookselfblog.wordpress.com/2019/07/26/book-review-maid-hard-work-low-pay-and-a-mothers-will-to-survive-by-stephanie-land/

Maid covers issues that really concern me-poverty, mental health, income inequality, the struggling to survive, etc. I hope this series opens people's minds of what it's like to be poor in the "richest country in the world." 

For me the biggest issue it covers is domestic violence.  There has been so much lately right in my area lately as well as in the media and we need to start showing it more in the various forms, it is happening too much.  The show so far, I’m  four episodes in is well acted and portrayed.  Not sure I can continue to read on here as I don’t like this all in one episode format, as I will surely be spoiled.

Edited October 6, 2021 by endure

[Bookish Jen]

2 hours ago, endure said:

For me the biggest issue it covers is domestic violence.  There has been so much lately right in my area lately as well as in the media and we need to start showing it more in the various forms, it is happening too much.  The show so far, I’m  four episodes in is well acted and portrayed.  Not sure I can continue to read on here as I don’t like this all in one episode format, as I will surely spoiled.

Salon has an article regarding this:
 

[QQQQ]

14 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Almost all of these episodes has had me screaming: "Get a lawyer!"  The custody situation, the mold infestation, the tenants who refuse to leave.  On and on.

I realize the point of this is to show how helpless and ignorant of the system Alex is, but all I could think during that mold infestation episode was the six-figure settlement she could get if she only knew to retain a plaintiff's attorney.

ETA: And then her boss fires her and refuses to give her the final paycheck that same day? Don't know about Washington, but in California, that's illegal.  

Lack of access, lack of $$, lack of time, distrust in a judicial system that's repeatedly failed her... Here's a great article addressing the inequities of the civil justice system: No Money No Lawyer No Justice

[h2ogirl]

This was one of the best things I've seen on television in a long time. I binged it in two days and have thought about it every day since. 

I am fortunate to have a boring, supportive, non-toxic extended family, and I keep coming back to the fact she had no support system in her life. When she finally asked her dad to help her and he couldn't it was devastating.

Just excellent writing and acting all around. Such great nuanced portrayals of flawed people. Sean was definitely abusive but he wasn't 100% evil all the time. Her mom was a huge narcissist and toxic but had loving moments. Very real. 

[Empress1]

2 hours ago, QQQQ said:

Lack of access, lack of $$, lack of time, distrust in a judicial system that's repeatedly failed her... Here's a great article addressing the inequities of the civil justice system: No Money No Lawyer No Justice

When she got advice from the lawyer & he gave her a stack of paperwork and she was like “I have to fill all this out and go to work and go to parenting class? And this has to be done by 7 AM?” I thought about how people say shit like “Beyoncé has the same 24 hours in a day you do.” She does not. She can outsource basically anything she doesn’t want to do. Alex has to haul her vacuum around on public transport and do absolutely everything herself. Money buys time.

[Brn2bwild]

4 hours ago, QQQQ said:

Lack of access, lack of $$, lack of time, distrust in a judicial system that's repeatedly failed her... Here's a great article addressing the inequities of the civil justice system: No Money No Lawyer No Justice

I totally get that. I just think it sucks. She could have gotten rich on all of the lawsuits she could have filed.

[QQQQ]

53 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

I totally get that. I just think it sucks. She could have gotten rich on all of the lawsuits she could have filed.

I echo your frustration. But I believe they were already in subsidized housing so the remedy would probably have been having temporary housing covered during mold remediation. Maddy's medical expenses may have also been covered through legal action, but I'd be surprised if she wasn't also receiving government medical assistance. Establishing causation could be tricky given the # of places Maddy had lived in her short life. Not to mention damage caps.

 

Same thing with her employer withholding the last paycheck. The most likely venue would be small claims court. While there were likely others in the same situation, the odds of them coming forward and banding together for a class action suit (i.e. to seek $$ for higher damages) without fear of retaliation is unlikely. Also, were taxes taken out of her wages? Bringing any of this into the open could be a lot more trouble than it's worth (something the employer knows and relies on).

Edited October 7, 2021 by QQQQ

[Glade]

This was an amazing series, and brought up so much for me.  I agree the pacing was slow the first few episodes, but it was so rewarding watching her come full circle and seeing just how she got sucked back in again but finally got away.  It's always valuable to be reminded that people, i.e. abusive family members don't just spontaneously 'change' without years and years of therapy, no matter how much you wish they would, and certainly not without ever acknowledging and apologizing for the things they've done.

[lovesnark]

I'm on episode 8 and am really enjoying this. Watching her mom brought back a flood of memories of a woman I knew in my 20's that disrupted my life like a tornado for a while.  I'm shocked at how disturbing those memories are, even after 40 years. My heart just breaks for Alex and I'm hoping she is finally able to take a breath and have a decent life for her and Maddy. The child playing Maddy is simply amazing. 

[memememe76]

I thought the series was great, exploring aspects of life not normally covered in mainstream television. Qualley was so great but I pretty much loved everyone who populated the shelter. But even a minor character, like Luis the caretaker in that apartment with mold, made an impact. Andie was A LOT, but the moments where she was so good in the quieter moments like when she refused to talk to her daughter in the psych ward.

Were the women in that writing groups (besides the AMAZING BJ Harrison as Denise and the other woman who played Brandi the store clerk) survivors of abuse? Just how they appeared in the final montage (so beautifully done) it seemed like it. 
 

I have a new crush on the actor who plays Nate.

[ErinV]

Nate can get the f*** out.  He brings the “nice guy” act to a whole other level.

[memememe76]

I generally don’t think it’s right to apply these tropes to characters of colour, as these tropes are based on a long history of television, which people of colour were normally excluded from. As if Nate could ever have acted like Mediocre White Guy Sean and attract Alex. If Alex really wanted to examine why she never wanted to go out with Nate back in the day, it would not have been as cutesy as the show made it be.

[thejuicer]

Just finished this series and I found it very interesting for all the reasons mentioned already.

I get what people are saying about Nate and his having ulterior motives but I think about it from his perspective too - he was housing Alex, Maddy, and her mother who had obvious mental health issues. Then Alex's alcoholic ex with anger issues shows up to his house, insults him, and walks through his house while trying to "help" Alex's mother. Then Alex leaves all night leaving her child behind and comes back the next morning, and her mother (who was staying at Nate's) had a psychiatric emergency needing hospitalization. That is a lot for anyone, let alone a guy with a young child of his own. I get that he liked her, and asked her out, but even I would have asked her to move out. I understand that people have differing opinions about this and that's partly why I think this show is fantastic - each character is multidimensional and complex.

 

[Ss55]

What were Nate's ulterior motives, aside from liking her? 

[Hal9000]

I didn’t get the sense that Nate is one of these guys that pretends to be a ‘nice guy’ just to get with a woman.  He’s a guy that was in a position to help someone that he liked, where the alternative would’ve been to not help.  It’s a tricky situation, and he was definitely wrong to ask her out while she was staying with him.  In addition, Alex was bang-on when she replied that the problem was it wouldn’t be a relationship of equals.  He asks her to leave because given that he’s interested in her, he doesn’t want to babysit her child while she is sleeping with Sean.  Strictly speaking it’s accurate to say that his help comes with strings attached, but it’s also an understandable attitude on his part.  Her status as someone with nowhere to go became ambiguous and he didn’t want to end up getting used.  In the end, he still left her with the car which indicates a sincere desire to help.

If you’re gonna’ hate on anyone, it’s her father.  All of his help was self-serving, and he was incapable of standing up for his daughter when it really came down to it.  He was basically a coward that takes the ‘bros before hoes’ mentality to a completely new level.

As an aside, Erin Karpluk, who played the father’s wife, was completely wasted in the role.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Hal9000
Edited for clarity

[Lady Calypso]

On 10/11/2021 at 10:34 PM, thejuicer said:

Just finished this series and I found it very interesting for all the reasons mentioned already.

I get what people are saying about Nate and his having ulterior motives but I think about it from his perspective too - he was housing Alex, Maddy, and her mother who had obvious mental health issues. Then Alex's alcoholic ex with anger issues shows up to his house, insults him, and walks through his house while trying to "help" Alex's mother. Then Alex leaves all night leaving her child behind and comes back the next morning, and her mother (who was staying at Nate's) had a psychiatric emergency needing hospitalization. That is a lot for anyone, let alone a guy with a young child of his own. I get that he liked her, and asked her out, but even I would have asked her to move out. I understand that people have differing opinions about this and that's partly why I think this show is fantastic - each character is multidimensional and complex.

Oh, for sure. I do think Nate is complex. He's not a Bad Guy in the way that others in Alex's life are, but I also don't think he's a Good Guy either. He's kind of that typical Nice Guy, just with more layers to him. 

I do think he meant well when he wanted to help her and his offers with his car and taking her and her mother and daughter in were genuine. However, he still made bad choices as well. Alex told him upfront to his face that she was not interested in a relationship. Nate took the opportunity to ask her out in a subtle way in every conversation that they had (because "can I call you" and "Let's go for coffee" had ulterior motives). 

He also seemed to get overprotective when Sean showed up, BUT not necessarily for Alex's sake, I don't think. When he came out to the porch the second after Alex did and continuously asked Alex if she needed help, I did see that as more of an Alpha Male play, trying to "puff out his chest", so to speak, to show Sean who owned that house. Alex had to tell him multiple times to go inside. He could have kept watch inside, but he chose to go outside not even 30 seconds after Alex, for reasons that weren't solely about Alex. 

Now, I totally understand that he had to kick her out because of her actions with leaving her child with him and not calling and sleeping with Sean. I also think he had good AND bad reasons for doing so. Again, Nate is complex. His reasons are layered, which I like. First off, Nate never asked Alex during that conversation how her mother was, or if she was ok, or even what happened. His focus was just about Alex sleeping with Sean.  He couldn't focus on anything else. Now, I get that he didn't want to be a babysitter for Alex's daughter, but I think he kind of stopped listening to her as soon as she admitted that she slept with Sean. He didn't act like a total jackass, but I also think he kicked her out more because of Sean than anything.

He's an interesting character, but definitely flawed and he has layers of a Nice Guy to him that made him more....wrong for Alex, rather than a bad guy for Alex.

Alex had her own issues, and she definitely made mistakes throughout the series, but I do like that there was not a single "good" character. Most of the "good" characters were morally grey, at best.

[rideashire]

This was a great show, I couldn't stop once I started. However, it frustrated me that she didn't give Nate a chance, and I say this as someone that really hated his reaction when she came back after sleeping with her ex. Yes, Nate is a "nice guy" and he had a shitty, jealous reaction for a hot second, but overall he would have been a good option.

She liked him. She had cowboy fantasies about him. He was kind to her and her child, he even took in her crazy mom. He would have treated her well and seemed to genuinely like her. This dude was the answer to the majority of her problems and I had to agree with her mother that it's not like she wasn't already into him, so what's the problem? That was a gift dropped down from the heavens and she sent it back. Frustrating.

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by rideashire

[ErinV]

I audibly gasped when Alex came home in the morning and Nate was all, "You can't call or text?!"  That was so out of line.  If it had been because she left Maddy with him alone overnight (not good), then fine, I get it.  But it was NOT.  It was solely because he was mad and jealous that she was with Sean.  His whole reason for telling her to move out was "I can't have a front row seat" to Sean and her. 
It was SO awkward when he asked her out and then didn't seem to understand why that was weird.
It was helpful that he let them move in with him, but he was 100% not willing to do that if he didn't get to have a relationship with Alex.  ICK.

The only time I sort of laughed with Nate was when he (with his giant gross beard) made fun of Sean and his "peach fuzz".

[Lady Calypso]

On 10/13/2021 at 7:23 PM, rideashire said:

This was a great show, I couldn't stop once I started. However, it frustrated me that she didn't give Nate a chance, and I say this as someone that really hated his reaction when she came back after sleeping with her ex. Yes, Nate is a "nice guy" and he had a shitty, jealous reaction for a hot second, but overall he would have been a good option.

She liked him. She had cowboy fantasies about him. He was kind to her and her child, he even took in her crazy mom. He would have treated her well and seemed to genuinely like her. This dude was the answer to the majority of her problems and I had to agree with her mother that it's not like she wasn't already into him, so what's the problem? That was a gift dropped down from the heavens and she sent it back. Frustrating.

Perhaps, but she wasn't ready. And I think choosing him would have just been wrong. Just because he was there, it doesn't mean she should have given him a chance. We saw that her life was nowhere close to being put together. She just got out of a long term abusive relationship that left scars AND left her homeless. 

It was clear she had feelings, but she was not in a state to be dating in that time. I think saying yes and dating him would have made things more complicated. As we saw when she slept with Sean and went back to him eventually, her life didn't NEED a guy; it needed support and comfort. Choosing him would have caused more problems in their relationship, I think. It would have been more questionable if she said yes to solve her problems. She needed to solve her own problems first.  

I think we kind of saw it with her mother, now that I'm thinking about it. Her mother used guys to solve her problems, but we saw that it didn't work and she got taken advantage of. Yes, Nate isn't one of those guys that her mom dated, BUT it still would have been wrong, and Alex needed to focus on herself and her daughter. Following in her mom's footsteps by using guys to solve her problem would have just had negative consequences on not just her life, but Maddy's as well. If she took a chance on Nate and dated him, that wouldn't really be solving her issues, I don't think. It would just be putting it off. Yes, it would have been good for her to have a stable home for her daughter so that she could have the time to sort out her life, but Alex either would have less focus on Nate, OR she would put too MUCH focus on Nate and not on fixing her life. 

Ultimately, it was clear that, as much as Alex liked him, she wasn't ready to date and that's reason enough for it not happening. 

[chocolatine]

I thought it was a riveting show, though I had a couple of issues with it. I thought it was unrealistic that Maddie was always so calm and good-natured (except for the one time she dropped her doll out the car window). Toddlers have meltdowns, even when they grow up in the most stable of home environments, and even the most patient of parents get exasperated with their toddlers sometimes. It was also unrealistic that Alex didn't have any vices or personal demons, like Sean and Paula. She is the perfect mother, a hard worker, has endless patience with her own mother, is smart enough to get a scholarship twice, and is gorgeous with good teeth to boot. Had she not been so good-looking and well-spoken, and her child not so adorable and angelic, people like Nate and Regina would not have lifted a finger to help her. (And speaking of Nate, I 100% believe that he only helped her because he wanted to date her. Typical "nice guy.")

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

I thought it was a riveting show, though I had a couple of issues with it. I thought it was unrealistic that Maddie was always so calm and good-natured (except for the one time she dropped her doll out the car window). Toddlers have meltdowns, even when they grow up in the most stable of home environments, and even the most patient of parents get exasperated with their toddlers sometimes. It was also unrealistic that Alex didn't have any vices or personal demons, like Sean and Paula. She is the perfect mother, a hard worker, has endless patience with her own mother, is smart enough to get a scholarship twice, and is gorgeous with good teeth to boot. Had she not been so good-looking and well-spoken, and her child not so adorable and angelic, people like Nate and Regina would not have lifted a finger to help her. (And speaking of Nate, I 100% believe that he only helped her because he wanted to date her. Typical "nice guy.")

Good point.  I wondered whether some of the opportunities she got (rent an apartment from the lesbian couple in exchange for landscaping, enroll her child in a high-end preschool despite her financial status) would have been available if she hadn't been white and so presentable.

ETA: By contrast, you have Fiona from Shameless.  Fiona had a lot of the same qualities as Alex - white, good-looking, well-spoken, driven, opportunities to succeed - but could not get out of her own way.  Because the show made clear that she also had a self-destructive streak (I'm thinking in particular of her snorting cocaine and ending up in jail after her youngest brother OD'd), and that while her family was frequently terrible, they were not solely to blame for her bad outcomes.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Brn2bwild

[sadie]

It was an interesting series. I liked that it showed some of Alex’s issues were her own bad choices in the moment. All her problems weren’t created by her, but I got so frustrated when it was her (allowing the gay couple to talk her into having Maddies bday party on-site knowing the potential of her friends causing havoc was high, inviting the Tinder guy over to the house she was cleaning, staying out all night w Sean dealing with her mom and not even bothering to send Nate a text when all she had to do was text a “hey my mom just tried to kill her self headed to hospital). Even entertaining the idea of bringing her mom with her to college, on what planet was that gonna be a good idea, was the point that she was so damaged by her life she was doomed to keep making bad choices? And I don’t know if it was the writing or the actress but even at the end when she went to thank lawyer lady it just wasn’t what I expected, too low key. I get we were supposed to root for her but I had mixed feelings about it.

[forevertwentynine]

This was the best show I've seen in a long while.  My heart ached for Alex and her situation.  I cried so many times and was so happy that she got out in the end.  I'm glad that her Mom found a way to make sure she didn't go with her to college.  That would have been a mess.  It's not so easy to walk away from toxicity.  
I'm glad that Sean saw reality at the end.  He at least knows he has a problem.

The WORST person in this was her father.  I wanted someone to just put his head through a glass wall.

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, forevertwentynine said:

This was the best show I've seen in a long while.  My heart ached for Alex and her situation.  I cried so many times and was so happy that she got out in the end.  I'm glad that her Mom found a way to make sure she didn't go with her to college.  That would have been a mess.  It's not so easy to walk away from toxicity.  
I'm glad that Sean saw reality at the end.  He at least knows he has a problem.

The WORST person in this was her father.  I wanted someone to just put his head through a glass wall.

My jaw dropped when he accepted a beer from Sean.  I guess he told himself that drinking weak beer "isn't really drinking."  There's a men's rights air to that father, the way he seemed to side with Sean against his own daughter, and kept insisting that Sean attend an AA meeting in order to unleash his resentment against her.    

[memememe76]

I was under the impression that those in AA were supposed to apologize to those they hurt. It is interesting the father never reached out to Paula or Alex. Even Sean apologized (although one could argue whether he meant it or not). 
 

The actress who played the leader of the shelter is SO GOOD. When I Googled her, I am shocked that her resume consisted primarily of Hallmark movies. How has Hollywood been sleeping on her? 

[pezgirl7]

14 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

My jaw dropped when he accepted a beer from Sean. 

I just figured it meant that he had fallen off the wagon, just like Sean had. They seemed to have been supporting each other in their sobriety, so I think once Sean started to drink, maybe the father did too. I do think it's sad that he sided with Sean, but he sees himself in Sean, so it makes sense.

On 10/2/2021 at 11:29 AM, Empress1 said:

I laughed when Alex flashed back and was pounding her head on the mic for not pursuing the cute (much cuter than Sean, IMO) engineer at the same time she met Sean.

I thought she was pounding her head because she didn't want to listen to him drone on about his boring job, just like when she first met him at the bar. She wasn't interested in him, and was just being polite. I don't think she was ever really interested in Nate, and I think the cowboy fantasies she was having was more about seeing him as a savior. I didn't understand what Nate saw in Alex. Nate seems to have so much going for him, I honestly think he could do so much better, so I was confused why he was pursuing her so hard.

Although I definitely felt bad for Alex, like another poster mentioned, it was hard watching her make, what I considered to be, poor choices. I wondered why she didn't try to find a better job. She was a waitress before, and I would think that with tips, she could make more money, and wouldn't have to buy her own supplies. Also, sometimes Alex seemed to be very strong willed, and other times, she let people walk over her, like letting her coworkers steal her supplies and not do their fair share of the work.

I also questioned her decision to get a huge student loan and go to college for creative writing. Hopefully she can get a job at a magazine or newspaper after graduating.

ETA: Because some of the story is based on real-life events, this article answers some of the questions I had! I love that all the My Little Ponies was a real thing that happened!

Edited October 19, 2021 by pezgirl7

[forevertwentynine]

2 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

Although I definitely felt bad for Alex, like another poster mentioned, it was hard watching her make, what I considered to be, poor choices. I wondered why she didn't try to find a better job. She was a waitress before, and I would think that with tips, she could make more money, and wouldn't have to buy her own supplies. Also, sometimes Alex seemed to be very strong willed, and other times, she let people walk over her, like letting her coworkers steal her supplies and not do their fair share of the work.

 

She was helpless in a lot of those situations.   I know what it's like to be emotionally abused ... to look at someone who is supposed to love you unconditionally and watch them side with someone who took advantage of you and abused you.  Sure, she succumbed to the defeat many times, but she still kept going in the end for her child.  I just can't judge her for that.

ETA: The O'Doul's beer that he asked for is supposed to be non-alcoholic.  Sean wasn't drinking O'Douls when her Dad wasn't there.

Edited October 19, 2021 by forevertwentynine

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

I didn't understand what Nate saw in Alex. Nate seems to have so much going for him, I honestly think he could do so much better, so I was confused why he was pursuing her so hard.

I think it was part physical attraction - she's a beautiful woman - and part Nate having a savior complex. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I think he liked the idea of a woman being reliant on him. When Alex brought the power imbalance, he pretended not to understand, but I think he understood perfectly. Also, the way he questioned Alex why she didn't call or text that she was going to be out all night, and demanded to know whether she slept with Sean, I got really controlling vibes from him. Not rage-controlling like Sean, more in a passive-aggressive way, but still disturbing. I think Alex felt it too on some level, which is why she kept turning him down.

[pezgirl7]

1 hour ago, forevertwentynine said:

ETA: The O'Doul's beer that he asked for is supposed to be non-alcoholic.  Sean wasn't drinking O'Douls when her Dad wasn't there.

Thanks, I didn't catch that! I don't drink beer, so I just figured he had also started drinking, which is why Alex was slipping further down the hole. I think it makes him being non-supportive of his daughter even more crappy, since he was apparently clean and sober but still hurting Alex by just standing by while she continued to be abused.

[Lsk02]

6 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

She was a waitress before, and I would think that with tips, she could make more money, and wouldn't have to buy her own supplies.

I read somewhere, either an article or an interview with the author, that she could not waitress because the money making shifts are at night and most government-funded day cares only operate during normal business hours. It’s tough to find after hours care if you’re willing to pay top dollar, but even worse for those in Alex’s position. 
 

Nate definitely had a savior complex. It would have been very easy for Alex to fall in with him, setting up for likely a messed up power dynamic for their relationship long term. I was very impressed with her strength and desire for independence, both with that and with turning down Regina’s offer to stay with her. 

[pezgirl7]

43 minutes ago, Lsk02 said:

I read somewhere, either an article or an interview with the author, that she could not waitress because the money making shifts are at night and most government-funded day cares only operate during normal business hours.

It was mentioned in the article at the bottom of my post, that I said answered some of my questions, like the job question...

Quote

"she began cleaning houses and sought government assistance because she wasn't able to resume work in the restaurant industry while seeking daycare for Story, since most facilities are only open during daytime hours on weekdays."

https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a37963061/where-stephanie-land-now-maid/

The show is very eye opening for people like me, who have never had to experience anything like Alex had to. Things aren't as easy or as cut and dry as you might think. Like when I wondered why she didn't just wait until Sean went to work to leave him, because then she could have taken some of her belongings with her. I realized I've never experienced anything like that, so I don't know what goes through the mind of a scared, abused woman.