S01.E07: Book VII: Revelation

[jewel21]

Quote

Night falls on Crockett Island as a tight-knit group of rebels take refuge where they can and forge a plan to control the chaos.

Airdate: 09/24/2021

[Enero]

Well I finished binging this series. Though not as entertaining as I’d hoped, it was still an easy, quick watch.

Ultimately this was another story about religious zealots going completely off the rails. I’m still baffled by the fact that no one thought ‘we get bitten, we drink the blood of the person we’re bitten by and now we can’t tolerate sunlight at.all., and have an intense hunger for blood, hmmm…could this be the legend of the vampire?’ Very odd that thought never came up. 

Most disturbing thing about this episode was seeing the vampire attack Erin. We’d seen it attack others but the way that scene was shot was more disturbing than other attacks. It looked like rape.But I guess when you think about it, it is a form of rape, attacking someone, forcing your will upon them, and draining them of blood from one of the most intimate parts of the body, the neck. 

I had to laugh when Bev and her group of dumb and blind followers realized they had no backup plan if a) the shelter they’d use to protect them from the sun  during the day was destroyed, and stupidly they destroyed any backup plan for that themselves, b) they didn’t leave a follower or two human to take care of things that could only be managed during the day, and c) they had no one guarding their transportation off the island. All were very zealous but not very bright. 

Though it was implied that the Alpha vampire died due to his wings  being too damaged  to fly him to the mainland and thus shelter, this story still may not be over. Though the Alpha had a lair on the island, he obviously disappeared from the island for long stretches of time, per the Father’s illness due to the lack of the Alpha’s blood. He could’ve already turned people on the mainland. But I guess if he did die the true death, those whom he turned would’ve died too. 

This series had some interesting themes, but the story wasn’t strong enough to support those themes. 

[jmonique]

I refuse to believe in even an imaginary world where Bev isn't the first one to be taken out by superhuman beings.

[Brn2bwild]

The finale episode reminded me of Bly Manor in many ways, in that a lot of it was meditative rather than action filled.  It's depressing that the Good Guys (save the two teenagers) did not survive, though at least they accomplished what they set out to do.  Though it did make me laugh that (1) Bev randomly decided to burn everything down just because and (2) none of them remembered that you can douse fire with water... which shouldn't be too hard to find since they're on an island.  

[I-Kare]

Oh man, that was bad. The first five eps were okay - not great but I thought why not go ahead and finish since you're already this far in. 

The last two eps? Bad. 

I think I'll go rewatch The Haunting of Hill House as a cleanse. 

[Lady Calypso]

And...what a mediocre ending to a mediocre mini-series. It just felt so dull and...lackluster, I guess? So Bev stupidly decides to burn down the entire island just to control who gets to join HER cult, only to have Erin and Hassan burn THAT down, along with Sarah and her parents (uh, what? Why the hell did they throw THAT in last minute?) burning down the church. 

And then they all accept their fate and burn in the sun.

Oh yeah, Erin also wounds the vampire's wings but not enough where we know for sure if it's failed in getting to the mainland. Except they have Leeza say that she can't feel her legs, which SHOULD indicate that the creature failed its mission and burned up in the sun. 

I really wish this series was better than it was. Too much dialogue, so little character development, predictable plots. And some of the acting was mediocre, mostly due to the old age makeup these certain actors had to wear. 

Yeah, count me as another who will be watching The Haunting of Hill House again. Hell, I'll even watch Bly Manor because those two seasons were better than this new series. But I guess this type of show will appeal to an audience I'm not a part of. Again, I appreciate the attempt with the premise, but the execution was done...poorly for me. 

It's not like it didn't have some ok moments. This finale had a nice moment with Hassan and his son dying beside each other, at least. And the creepy singing abruptly ending as they all burned DID give me chills. And the church scene last episode wasn't horrible. But...yeah, just not a series I care to rewatch. 

[TrininisaScorp]

Oh, I may be in the minority here...my husband and I really enjoyed it.  I got home late from a concert Friday and washed my hair, so in waiting for it to dry, my husband and I watched 2 episodes and then on Saturday binged the rest that afternoon.  I loved the look and feel of the island, and the insider/outsider dynamics.   The ending is bleak, but there was some kind of first man/woman-burn it all and restart vibe with Leeza and Warren. It's like to really make something, they literally had to burn it all down and start again elsewhere.  I loved the ideas of life/death, determinism, free will, identity, religion/faith/spirituality, etc being explored this way. 

I also enjoyed the last scenes with Erin living out her last convo with Riley, John/Magaret/their daughter on the bridge by the marsh, and Hassan and Ali reading their nammase one last time.  The hymn stopping abruptly when everyone burned was chilling. I was intrigued by the symbolism that some people, even those turned, would actively not want to tear the throats of their neighbors and partake in blood lust (Riley's parents, Ali)...that tells you about who they are and their real faith.    

Our families are Hindu and Muslim, so I will say, the idea that you are even symbolically eating the blood and the body of the savior is really terrifying/hard to wrap your head around to those who grew up in a very different culture (as I'm sure eastern religions might feel to western Christians).  So, I feel like I saw that connection as a gateway to vampirism pretty easily. Also, maybe my years of Supernatural fandom left the mark that angels for the most part are real dicks with an incredible entitlement and violent streak (hee).  Thus, a vampire angel thing made such sense to me. That said, the reveal of the creature was the weakest part of the series for me. 

I thought Hamish Linklater and Zach Gilford were standouts.  I enjoyed them both being on my screen and bringing so much to this.  In fact, I don't know that it would have worked at all without Hamish really walking a tightrope in his performance of being charismatic, caring, saying the right things, while still being chilling, a zealot with moments of mania.  Kudos to the actress that played Bev (man, I hated her from her first line on...that's impressive) and Rahul, who I loved from Bly Manor.  I thought Kate was good, but I found her significantly more interesting in Haunting and Bly. I outwardly gasped when Bev told Hassan he has "dirty blood", so they won't drink from him...like, I know you are a racist bigot, but damn, that's commitment. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by TrininisaScorp

[Chaos Theory]

I thought the ending pulled out an average story.   I did like the comparisons between vampirism and Christianity and how they are incredibly similar.  Catholics believe you are literally eating and drinking from Christ to obtain everlasting life.  So I can see how this concept could translate easily into religion.      

The story in large part was about the necessity of death.  As sad as it is people live and then they die.   Without dying it’s not really life but the conversations between Erin and Riley about what death actually was was interesting.

I thought Bev was one of the best villains i have seen in awhile.   A religious zealot who was just a mean person.   I thought her plan to burn down the town made sense because it was such a zealot thing to do.  Only the people she let into her community center would survive.  So anyone she believed was unfit would die.

I think my favorite confrontation was between Riley’s mother (sorry I forget her name) and Bev.  Paraphrasing “God loves him (Riley Flynn) just as much as he loves you Bev. Why does that upset you so much?”   I forget the exact line now but I remember rewinding just to hear it again.

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I thought Bev was one of the best villains i have seen in awhile.   A religious zealot who was just a mean person.   I thought her plan to burn down the town made sense because it was such a zealot thing to do.  Only the people she let into her community center would survive.  So anyone she believed was unfit would die.

100% on this. Bev is a fantastic villain and, through all of my critiques about the show, her character is actually a positive. She was written very well, even if it was obvious, and it was fun to hate her. She's definitely one of my favourite villains in a few years.

[Paloma]

This should have been an exciting finale, but of course they had to interrupt the action with another interminable monologue about death from Erin. The monsignor also had to monologue, but at least it was not quite as long and was somewhat more interesting. But I didn't like that all of a sudden he claimed that the motivation for his actions was love for Mildred and Sarah, instead of the "passion" for religious belief that all of his previous words and actions had shown.

I was confused as to why Leeza survived the sunrise and why her paralysis came back when they were in the boat. She was one of the only regulars at church and thus consumed more of the "angel's" (or the monsignor's) blood than almost anyone--enough that she was healed of her paralysis even before adults started getting younger. So why wasn't she a vampire like, for example, her mom, who went to church regularly with Leeza? For that matter, why wasn't Warren a vampire, since he was an altar boy and presumably took communion regularly?

It really bothered me that after seeing all the terrible things that religious belief caused, the soon-to-burn-up townspeople got together to sang a hymn. I understand needing comfort, but they should have been disillusioned with faith and just spent their last moments hugging and comforting each other.

Most of all, I'm disappointed that Bev "only" burst into flame, like everyone else. She deserved an ending that was much worse. Hopefully she will rot in hell, if there is one.

[Straycat80]

Agree with what everyone has said so far about the series and finale. Lackluster at best, too much dialogueing. I would have rather heard more about Monsignor’s past relationship with Millie instead of the Sheriffs long winded explanation about how he came to the island. I really wanted Erin, Sarah and the Sheriff to make it too. I was also confused about why Leeza’s paralysis came back. The best part for me was Bev burning up. 

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, Straycat80 said:

Agree with what everyone has said so far about the series and finale. Lackluster at best, too much dialogueing. I would have rather heard more about Monsignor’s past relationship with Millie instead of the Sheriffs long winded explanation about how he came to the island. I really wanted Erin, Sarah and the Sheriff to make it too. I was also confused about why Leeza’s paralysis came back. The best part for me was Bev burning up. 

Either losing the head vampire caused her blood to go back to normal, or it "burned" off with the sunlight, as Sarah noted in her experiments.  Though if it burned off, wouldn't she feel it (and become paralyzed again)?  And wouldn't it have been doing that every day she went outside?  

[Chaos Theory]

4 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

Either losing the head vampire caused her blood to go back to normal, or it "burned" off with the sunlight, as Sarah noted in her experiments.  Though if it burned off, wouldn't she feel it (and become paralyzed again)?  And wouldn't it have been doing that every day she went outside?  

I think she was only partially changed.  At least that is how I read it.  She was the first “miracle” so she didn’t die and come back to life like the other did.   
 

13 hours ago, Paloma said:

 

It really bothered me that after seeing all the terrible things that religious belief caused, the soon-to-burn-up townspeople got together to sang a hymn. I understand needing comfort, but they should have been disillusioned with faith and just spent their last moments hugging and comforting each other.

Annie was a true believer and not a zealot.  I can see the true real belief in God and each other being what was left in their final moments.   This is what true religion is supposed to be.  Annie is the representation of true belief.  She still loves her son even though he is imperfect.  That confrontation between het and Bev was my favorite part of the finale.  When Annie asked why it bothered Bev so much to think that God loved other people as much as He loved her?   True believers believe God loves even the sinners….especially the sinners.    Zealots believe only the worthy deserve his love.

[Brn2bwild]

Leeza never died, so she never became a vampire. But Sarah mentioned that the blood of those who had taken the tainted communion wine (Erin, her mom) reacted to the sun, burning off the alien blood and leaving the normal blood. So why didn't they have a reaction when they went outside? Why didn't Leeza become re-paralyzed every day, or Erin become pregnant over and over?

Also, after Erin died, wouldn't she have come back to life (just before the sunrise... lucky) because she took communion wine?

[raven]

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Why didn't Leeza become re-paralyzed every day, or Erin become pregnant over and over?

I think it was because they kept ingesting it.  Weren't they having daily Mass?  I'm not sure but I think so.

Agree that Bev was an excellent villain, as well as the true villain of the piece.  The head vamp was horrifying - the scene where it's casually feeding on that woman when the teens find the lair - was creepy AF.   Still, maybe because it never talked, there was for the sense that it was a force of nature, doing the awful things it does.  It did have a mean streak for sure.  Bev, however, was evil even when she was just human.  She is a cult leader - her behavior when they are getting ready for the "chosen ones" to go into the rec center and she's judging that one guy is an example of how zealous she is.  "No room inside for you!"  It helps to have dumb followers.

Father Fang's abrupt turn worked only because of Hamish's performance.   I know he didn't want the violence but he wanted everyone to turn, so it did seem out of left field.

I liked Sarah refusing to be turned and I liked seeing those like Riley's parents, choosing not to go after people and Ali choosing his father and burning the rec hall.

I enjoyed the last two eps more than I thought it would.   The series could have been a lot better without all of the long winded speeches.

Oh, Erin's death was bad though I'm going to believe that at least she got the last laugh.  I wish we had more survivors other than the two teens I didn't really know or care much about.  Floating ash, nice touch.

Bev deserved something worse than just bursting into flames.

[merylinkid]

I too loved Bev being FINALLY told off.   "Why does that upset you so much?" after being told that God doesn't love her more.    

11 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Annie was a true believer and not a zealot.  I can see the true real belief in God and each other being what was left in their final moments.   This is what true religion is supposed to be.  

Yes.  that was faith.   Contrasted with Bev's final moments of trying to dig a hole because no way was SHE going to accept death.   SHE had a destiny DAMMIT.   SHE was special.   She couldn't just die like everyone else.   Everyone followed her, right up until she took it upon herself to sort the wheat from the chaff.   

Father Fang and Alzheimer Mom got buuzzzaaaay as kids.    Well now we know why Monsignor Pruett always stared at her.   It wasn't disapproval, it was watching his kid grow up.   But COME ON Monsignor, you of ALL people should know about demons and evil.   How could you believe this was going to end well.   

[Anela]

One nitpick: with all of the town being so rundown, and most things being so old, none of them had a landline? Not one? No radios that weren't dependent on the power?

Of course Bev was the only one trying to hide from the sun. What a horrible excuse for a human being. 

[Enero]

18 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Why didn't Leeza become re-paralyzed every day, or Erin become pregnant over and over?

I think once the vampire’s blood “ healed” Erin by essentially aborting the pregnancy that was that. Unlike Leeza’s paralysis which could potentially be healed but then return if the vampire’s blood was not ingested, once the pregnancy was terminated there was no way for Erin to regain that pregnancy even if she stopped communion. That “healing” was permanent unless she became pregnant again the old fashion way or through medical intervention. 

[merylinkid]

Changing my opinion on Bev's actions at the end.   Not in her favor, of course.   I mean when she said to Ms. Flynn "remove the beam in your eye" she was doing some heavy duty projecting there.    Mom saw exactly how flawed her son was, but loved him anyway.   Meanwhile, Bev was judging everyone else while refusing to see her own flaws.

At the end, that really came out.   The townspeople accepted they had done something wrong and accepted the consequences.   Just like in the beginning, Riley accepted his actions had led to that girl's death.   he pled guilty and went to jail.   Bev on the other hand, was NOT going to accept she was wrong and certainly was not going to accept the consequences -- i.e. burning up.  

This show was about faith and redemption and healing -- with vampires.

[ferjy]

19 hours ago, Enero said:

I think once the vampire’s blood “ healed” Erin by essentially aborting the pregnancy that was that. Unlike Leeza’s paralysis which could potentially be healed but then return if the vampire’s blood was not ingested, once the pregnancy was terminated there was no way for Erin to regain that pregnancy even if she stopped communion. That “healing” was permanent unless she became pregnant again the old fashion way or through medical intervention. 

I would go one step further and say that Leeza shouldn’t have reverted either. It didn’t make sense to me is that she would be re-injured. She went back in time (for all intents and purposes) so once she started aging again when the blood wore off, why would she be re-injured? She would have to be shot again. It’s not like it was a disease that would manifest again, it was an accident. (And like you say, Erin would have to get pregnant again.) But I guess on TV they can explain it away any way they like. 😄

 

[Anela]

1 hour ago, ferjy said:

I would go one step further and say that Leeza shouldn’t have reverted either. It didn’t make sense to me is that she would be re-injured. She went back in time (for all intents and purposes) so once she started aging again when the blood wore off, why would she be re-injured? She would have to be shot again. It’s not like it was a disease that would manifest again, it was an accident. (And like you say, Erin would have to get pregnant again.) But I guess on TV they can explain it away any way they like. 😄

 

Before that happened, I was wondering what would happen if they were somehow killed on the mainland. Would they turn into vampires? I guess that answered my question. 

[Darian]

Well, it got to me in the end. Brought me to tears, even though I didn't enjoy the last two episodes as much as the prior ones. Great acting, though. 

They leaned so hard on the Neil Diamond songs in the first episodes, that I kept thinking of other of his songs that have religious imagery (my sister was a superfan). I'm fine that they didn't use more, mind you, but it seemed like it was going to be a theme. 

Erin slashing the "angel's" wings reminded me of the story she told Riley of having to hold birds while her mother clipped their wings. Maybe an intentional call back, maybe not, but I thought about it. It was lovely to show her imaging a different version of the story she and Riley had about what happens after death. I loved seeing Zach Gilford again. 

 Overall, glad I watched, even if some of the last two episodes disappointed. 

[HC87]

As a lifelong (now mostly lapsed) Catholic of ovah 50 years, that was about as "Catholic" a show I can remembah. Linklater really captured the mannerisms, affectations of a parish priest.

Started out bettah than it finished but it was enjoyable for the most part. 

 

[IndianPaintbrush]

This series had so many fascinating things about it (Catholicism! vampires!) but the final episode was such a letdown. I don't buy that Father Fang immediately saw the error of his ways and was doing all of it for Alzheimer Mom and daughter. There should have been more buildup for that. Why didn't Leeza drink the blood at midnight mass? She seemed horrified by what happened to her parents, but she was such a true believer that you'd think this would not have dissuaded her. Why was the Angel so unbothered when Leeza was throwing stuff at it and Erin was cutting up its wings? It just didn't make sense.

Good series overall, but terrible ending. I agree that Linklater was the MVP.

[Persnickety1]

I went into this totally blind, having never seen Haunting of Hill House or Bly Manor.  I recognized Siegel from "Hush" and Gish from her past works (Mystic Pizza).  I was totally unfamiliar with the rest of the cast and the writer(s).  

I went into it with no further expectations than being entertained for a few hours, and I was not disappointed.  

I was immensely entertained and at times riveted to what was unfolding on the screen.  

The ending, what with the sudden cessation of the singing and the ashes floating in the sky, was haunting.  

Perhaps because I was so unspoiled and had zero expectations, I appreciated it just for what it was.  

Now I'm off to spend a Saturday under the weather binge watching Haunting of Hill House and hoping I find it as enjoyable as I did Midnight Mass.  

[Darian]

59 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

Now I'm off to spend a Saturday under the weather binge watching Haunting of Hill House and hoping I find it as enjoyable as I did Midnight Mass.  

I started a rewatch of Bly Manor just to see Rahul Kohli (his character) alive, charming, goofy, and British. (no spoilers. I'm not saying whether or not he survives the series. Just that he's in it and oh-so good). 

[Sakura12]

My takeaway from this show, it's about the monologues that never end. You'd think they were done then they'd keep going. If Flannign thought he was being profound, he wasn't because I just stopped paying aattention. All of them could've been cut in half to get the point across.

So Riley's parents and Ali knew they had the will to not eat and murder their friends and neighbors. Everyone else drank the kool-aid from Bev. I guess that showed the true believers from the self rightious. Bev thought she was special above everyone else and even when facing death couldn't accept she was just like everyone else.

I know they hinted that the Monsignor had a child, and Sarah's mom even in her altered state called him John, the Sarah being his daughter was just kind of thrown in their at the end. I would've liked to see that story and not the many endless monologues. 

So that throwaway line from Leeza saying her paralysis is back means the head Vampire died and all his blood disappeared from their system. That seems a little easy. But I suppose it is what is. Like most of Flannigan's work it's not about the horror story. 

Also shows like this expect us to believe that they exist in some alternate world that never heard about vampires. Since no ever brought that up. Vampires have existed in literature for years. You can't tell me not one person knew about them. Especially since they made enough regular trips to the mainland to have a ferry service. 

[HelloooKitty]

Oh Bev, a martyr in her own mind!

so glad she died terrified, screaming and crying and trying to literally dig her own hole  

in response to some previous questions, simply ingesting some of the “angel’s” blood would help to heal and renew you. You could continue on as usual, just…. Better. 
 

if something happened, and you died, the blood in your system would reanimate you but there would be side effects. You would have a craving for blood, for some overwhelmingly so, and you would be vulnerable to sunlight. The Dr explained it as severe anemia and a sun allergy. 
 

Riley never took communion, but after the angel killed him, Pruitt force fed him blood to keep him from dying. 
 

The sheriff never took communion and that’s why he fell over dead with no chance of reanimating.

Dr rejected the blood- spit it out- so she wouldn’t reanimate. 
 

Leeza and little brother (warren?) never died so they never reached that second point. 
 

Erin only died right at the end so she either burst into flames as soon as she rewoke or before she even could do so. 
 

no one else in the first stage ever had issues with sun, only blood removed from the body and put in direct sunlight reacted. 
 

since leeza states she can no longer feel her legs we can assume the angel died  since, according to lore and The Lost Boys, when the head vamp dies, everyone infected by him at all, reverts to normal  

 

[Zanne]

12 hours ago, IndianPaintbrush said:

Why didn't Leeza drink the blood at midnight mass? She seemed horrified by what happened to her parents, but she was such a true believer that you'd think this would not have dissuaded her. Why was the Angel so unbothered when Leeza was throwing stuff at it and Erin was cutting up its wings? It just didn't make sense.

It wasn't blood they were handing out in the plastic cups at the midnight mass, but the poison mixed with water. They had all ingested enough blood to turn with all of the Communions, but needed to die first, so this was their version of Jonestown. Leeza had already seen several people die in horrible pain and recognized what was happening was wrong.

As for why the vampire was unbothered by everything when drinking blood, it's probably metaphorical to show he's more animal than man. He was lost to his sin of gluttony so did not heed anything but his feeding.

[hypnotoad]

Quote

Also shows like this expect us to believe that they exist in some alternate world that never heard about vampires. Since no ever brought that up. Vampires have existed in literature for years.

This bothered me for sure. The priest just assumes what he found in the desert is an angel and of course because he's made young again his religious fervor takes over. But once you notice the thing cannot be in the sunlight or needs to travel in a huge trunk with dirt, one would think the lore of the vampire might ping for him. I guess we are to think he cannot see past the religious part to accept the thing might not be an angel.

Overall, I really enjoyed this series. I thought it was an interesting take on religion, cults and vampires. I agree that some of the monologuing was very, very overdone (my mute button was my friend a couple of times).

I was bummed Leeza is paralyzed again but at least it means the alpha vamp is dead. Oh and Riley sets himself on fire in the boat but all those flames don't set the boat on fire?!? How? And did he know that for sure? I mean convenient for Erin!

[archer1267]

I really enjoyed this, although I too would have been happier with less speechifying. Hill House is still my favorite of the three Netflix series, but this may be second. Anything to do with isolation already creeps me out, and that scene in the church - when those who have taken the position are "resurrected" and start going after their family and neighbors hungrily - is the most unnerving thing I've seen in a while.

I do wish, though, that they'd made the angel a little more ambiguous looking, less frightening. Less obviously a monster. A little more Bela Lugosi and less Nosferatu. I too wondered "c'mon! Can't the congregation see that this is a vampire?"

Also, if the only survivors were to be the vampire islanders, what were they going to feed on once they decimated the non-vampire human population and animals?? I guess they figured they could always take boats to the mainland (?) and then that got foiled.

 

 

[Brn2bwild]

After watching for a second time with my mom, I think that the miniseries unfairly pegged Bev as the real villain.  Not to say she is not a villain, or that she is not fundamentally crueller than Father Paul/Monsignor, but the effect of her cruelty was extremely limited before the Monsignor returned to the island.  He is the one who chose to "save" people by spiking the wine with the "angel's" blood without their knowledge or consent, forcing the choice to simply die (as Annie seemed to try to do) out of their hands.  The parishioners trusted him, and he betrayed them in the worst possible way.  Bev simply took his goals to their cruel logical endpoint.

On another note, I was trying to figure out when/why Bev would have started poisoning the Monsignor.  He started getting sick right after Leeza was able to walk, and Bev seemed mystified by his condition.  She then saw the photograph where he was young and put two and two together, but even then, it didn't make sense that she would have started poisoning him, because how would she know that he would return from death?  Could he have gotten horribly sick due to not having access to the angel's blood for several days?    

[Paloma]

On 10/1/2021 at 2:03 PM, Darian said:

They leaned so hard on the Neil Diamond songs in the first episodes, that I kept thinking of other of his songs that have religious imagery

It struck me as odd that they used so much Neil Diamond in a series that is so overtly Catholic, because he is Jewish. But the songs did seem to fit the mood.

5 hours ago, archer1267 said:

Also, if the only survivors were to be the vampire islanders, what were they going to feed on once they decimated the non-vampire human population and animals?? I guess they figured they could always take boats to the mainland (?) and then that got foiled.

I think Bev or someone else mentioned a plan for the survivors to take the boats to the mainland, presumably at night when it was safe for them to be out. Bev's assistant (Sturge?) had disabled the boats so the resisters couldn't leave, but I'm sure he could have fixed them later. Also, the ferry pilot had sent the ferry away (not sure how that worked--where did he put it and how did he get back to the island?), but I think the plan was to bring the ferry back and use it to go back and forth to the mainland to get fresh blood. 

 

29 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

On another note, I was trying to figure out when/why Bev would have started poisoning the Monsignor.  He started getting sick right after Leeza was able to walk, and Bev seemed mystified by his condition.  She then saw the photograph where he was young and put two and two together, but even then, it didn't make sense that she would have started poisoning him, because how would she know that he would return from death?  Could he have gotten horribly sick due to not having access to the angel's blood for several days?

My original theory was that he was sick from blood withdrawal, but someone else thought it was because Bev poisoned him. Like you, I can't figure when or why she would have done this. The only thing I can come up with is that when she saw the photo of the young Monsignor, she decided that Father Paul was a demon and should be killed (though why she thought rat poison would kill a demon is a mystery). I don't believe that she could have known at that point that he could return from death, unless she somehow saw or knew about the "angel."

[calliope1975]

Not 100% sure I'm remembering right, but I believe the plan was to send the ferry away to trap people on the island. Then once everyone was turned they were going to go to the mainland to 'spread the gospel'. That's why the heroes burned all the boats cept for the ones the kids took out. I don't think either camp really thought their plans through lol. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by calliope1975

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, Paloma said:

My original theory was that he was sick from blood withdrawal, but someone else thought it was because Bev poisoned him. Like you, I can't figure when or why she would have done this. The only thing I can come up with is that when she saw the photo of the young Monsignor, she decided that Father Paul was a demon and should be killed (though why she thought rat poison would kill a demon is a mystery). I don't believe that she could have known at that point that he could return from death, unless she somehow saw or knew about the "angel."

I was reading on Reddit, and someone "intimately familiar" with the writing said that Father Paul/Monsignor got sick due to the vampire blood/pathogen reaching a "critical mass" in his system, and that his death looking like Pike's was just a coincidence. 

[Paloma]

53 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

I was reading on Reddit, and someone "intimately familiar" with the writing

So do you think it was one of the show's writers who said that?

[Straycat80]

Something else: Millie got visually as well as mentally younger and younger every time she drank the blood. So why didn’t the other people get visually younger looking too? 

[Brn2bwild]

52 minutes ago, Paloma said:

So do you think it was one of the show's writers who said that?

Maybe, or a writers assistant.

[raven]

12 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

Something else: Millie got visually as well as mentally younger and younger every time she drank the blood. So why didn’t the other people get visually younger looking too? 

Riley's parents were, just not to the same extent.   Father Fang/Monsignor was seeing Millie every day I believe and giving her the blood, which makes sense since they were in love.    Everyone else was going to Mass maybe once or twice a week - I don't think it was daily.

[Sakura12]

So Bev knew about Millie and the Monsignor's affair. How did she justify that? You'd think in all her self righteousness she'd hold that against him. And more so since Sarah's gay.  She didn't say anything about it until she saw them together. Considering all the never ending monologues we've heard we only get bit and pieces about that. 

[DanielleBowden]

I finished over the weekend and started over last night.  On first watch, I didn't appreciate the slow build and glossed over the early episodes.  The series didn't grab me until the Riley was attacked honestly.  I'm enjoying the re-watch and also learned Riley's brother's name.  It's fascinating to see Bev  progress from town asshole to straight up terrifying.  She is a great villain.  But, like mentioned above, I also think that the Monsignor's got off lightly in the end.  He turned an entire town into vampires so he could get a second chance with Mildred.  Honestly.  Mildred should have slapped him when he said, I did this all for you as she sitting undead in church dripping in her neighbors'  blood. 

[MaggieG]

My biggest issue with this show was the fact that nobody that saw the "angel" didn't scream out "Dude, that's not an angel, that's a vampire!" Riley, after being resurrected, sat there with the Monsignor and didn't ask any questions about what that thing was, where did it come from. Erin, after sitting in the boat with Riley, listening to his story, watching him burn, didn't voice anything like that. Even when she's recounting the story to Sarah, they didn't mention "that thing, that creature" that's clearly not an angel. Even after the massacre, when the few survivors were hiding out at the Riley's house nobody is voicing this. I get it, they're probably all in shock from what they just witnessed but the fact that nobody said "what the hell was that thing?" just took me out of the show a bit.

I will say that the creepiest scene in the whole show was episode 4 when Riley goes to confront Paul regarding the lie about Joe's sister. He walks into the rec center, sees the creature and it just launches at him. That unsettled me. Also when the creature showed up in the church with his glowing eyes.

Also, so much monologuing 

[red12]

On 9/27/2021 at 1:12 AM, TrininisaScorp said:

Oh, I may be in the minority here...my husband and I really enjoyed it.  I got home late from a concert Friday and washed my hair, so in waiting for it to dry, my husband and I watched 2 episodes and then on Saturday binged the rest that afternoon.  I loved the look and feel of the island, and the insider/outsider dynamics.   The ending is bleak, but there was some kind of first man/woman-burn it all and restart vibe with Leeza and Warren. It's like to really make something, they literally had to burn it all down and start again elsewhere.  I loved the ideas of life/death, determinism, free will, identity, religion/faith/spirituality, etc being explored this way. 

I also enjoyed the last scenes with Erin living out her last convo with Riley, John/Magaret/their daughter on the bridge by the marsh, and Hassan and Ali reading their nammase one last time.  The hymn stopping abruptly when everyone burned was chilling. I was intrigued by the symbolism that some people, even those turned, would actively not want to tear the throats of their neighbors and partake in blood lust (Riley's parents, Ali)...that tells you about who they are and their real faith.    

Our families are Hindu and Muslim, so I will say, the idea that you are even symbolically eating the blood and the body of the savior is really terrifying/hard to wrap your head around to those who grew up in a very different culture (as I'm sure eastern religions might feel to western Christians).  So, I feel like I saw that connection as a gateway to vampirism pretty easily. Also, maybe my years of Supernatural fandom left the mark that angels for the most part are real dicks with an incredible entitlement and violent streak (hee).  Thus, a vampire angel thing made such sense to me. That said, the reveal of the creature was the weakest part of the series for me. 

I thought Hamish Linklater and Zach Gilford were standouts.  I enjoyed them both being on my screen and bringing so much to this.  In fact, I don't know that it would have worked at all without Hamish really walking a tightrope in his performance of being charismatic, caring, saying the right things, while still being chilling, a zealot with moments of mania.  Kudos to the actress that played Bev (man, I hated her from her first line on...that's impressive) and Rahul, who I loved from Bly Manor.  I thought Kate was good, but I found her significantly more interesting in Haunting and Bly. I outwardly gasped when Bev told Hassan he has "dirty blood", so they won't drink from him...like, I know you are a racist bigot, but damn, that's commitment. 

I appreciate your insight as a viewer with a different religious background than what is in the show and my own which is Southern American Christian, evangelical. I really appreciated the presence and spotlight on Hassan and Ali. 

I also wondered if anyone else saw the worship of whiteness in Bev. It reminds me a lot of experiences with some white American Christians and the idea of what they deem to be tolerant and even nice is still racist and insulting. Dehumanizing also applies in real life but, because of the vampire status here, I hesitated to use that word. 

I did wonder while watching if any atheist viewers had a different experience watching. Like, I wondered if I would find the cannon of the show weird or boring without my religious upbringing. 

[hypnotoad]

Quote

I did wonder while watching if any atheist viewers had a different experience watching. Like, I wondered if I would find the cannon of the show weird or boring without my religious upbringing. 

I was raised Catholic, but am retired. I consider myself atheist now. The scenes at mass really brought me back, like I knew the songs they were singing and the prayers. I really didn't think I would remember all of that so easily but I guess it's in my brain somewhere!

Someone who never had much in the way of religion in their life might find all the god and faith talk a bit overwhelming, and at times I found myself irritated by it. But it was the exploration of religion/cults mixed with vampires that ended up catching my attention.

Quote

I also wondered if anyone else saw the worship of whiteness in Bev

I think it was hard to miss! That scene at the school when the sheriff brought up his concerns was soooooo uncomfortable and she was sooooo awful. I respect people's faith and beliefs, but fake religious zealots represented by Bev in this show make my skin crawl.

[Anela]

On 10/3/2021 at 6:12 PM, Brn2bwild said:

I was reading on Reddit, and someone "intimately familiar" with the writing said that Father Paul/Monsignor got sick due to the vampire blood/pathogen reaching a "critical mass" in his system, and that his death looking like Pike's was just a coincidence. 

They shouldn't have kept showing Bev with the poison then. They showed her with it again, in the same episode that he died. 

[Anela]

The only thing that will put me off watching it again, is the monologues. I know that I can fast-forward, it's just sooo much. I think Hill House was the best, until the last episode. I loved it. Bly Manor is second for me. 

[Macbeth]

On 9/27/2021 at 3:16 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I thought the ending pulled out an average story.   I did like the comparisons between vampirism and Christianity and how they are incredibly similar.  Catholics believe you are literally eating and drinking from Christ to obtain everlasting life.  So I can see how this concept could translate easily into religion.      

The story in large part was about the necessity of death.  As sad as it is people live and then they die.   Without dying it’s not really life but the conversations between Erin and Riley about what death actually was was interesting.

I thought Bev was one of the best villains i have seen in awhile.   A religious zealot who was just a mean person.   I thought her plan to burn down the town made sense because it was such a zealot thing to do.  Only the people she let into her community center would survive.  So anyone she believed was unfit would die.

I think my favorite confrontation was between Riley’s mother (sorry I forget her name) and Bev.  Paraphrasing “God loves him (Riley Flynn) just as much as he loves you Bev. Why does that upset you so much?”   I forget the exact line now but I remember rewinding just to hear it again.

 

I was raised Catholic and went to Church weekly until I was age 18.  I wasn't taught to believe that.  Maybe I was a bad student,  Confession is much more important to getting into heaven than that.  When Priests do the last rites they are listening to confessions not giving out bread and wine. I was raised after Vatican II so that maybe that's the issue too.   Granted I have been an athiest for the past few decades.  

Bev.  I really liked the actress and she did a really good job.  But I still have an issue of a woman, wearing a robe, and acting like a Deacon in the Catholic Church.  Catholic Church does not allow women to have such roles.  One of the many reasons why I left the Church.  

Edited October 6, 2021 by Macbeth

[Chaos Theory]

3 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

I was raised Catholic and went to Church weekly until I was age 18.  I wasn't taught to believe that.  Maybe I was a bad student,  Confession is much more important to getting into heaven than that.  When Priests do the last rites they are listening to confessions not giving out bread and wine. I was raised after Vatican II so that maybe that's the issue too.   Granted I have been an athiest for the past few decades.  

It’s called transubstantiation.    But it’s an old belief that only about 1/3 of modern US Catholics believe.   However The Catholic Church does believe and teach it to be true.     That during Mass the bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Christ.    This is why the whole Vampire Catholic thing works for me so well.

[Darian]

On 10/4/2021 at 2:54 PM, red12 said:

I did wonder while watching if any atheist viewers had a different experience watching. Like, I wondered if I would find the cannon of the show weird or boring without my religious upbringing. 

I was brought up by former Catholics (who did not taking leaving lightly but were very disillusioned when they left, and took enough heat from family that I didn't get exposed to much Catholicism, though this was a family of Boston Irish and Italian immigrants) with a very vague idea that there was a god and he sacrificed his son so we don't die, but you didn't have to do anything, but should be a good person. It was not talked about much and we never went to church. Basically, I grew up to be open to new and question things, and I ended up leaving that vague belief behind (studying a lot of different mythology was a big factor) and eventually realizing that made me an atheist. Some would say the open mind part is incompatible with atheism, but that's one of those stereotypes I fear every time I watch or read and get into any discussion about atheism. I'll believe something if there's enough credible evidence, but some people who say their faith is unshakable call me close-minded. That's what I tend to fear as soon an atheist shows up in fiction. Or worse. So before I realized this was from Mike Flanagan and some of the actors from Hill House and Bly were in it, I was not going to watch, but then when I did and saw an atheist character, I was waiting for him to be a bad guy or have a religious conversion or be a jerk about others' beliefs, which is the only way some writers can protray atheits, and doesn't reflect many atheists I know. 

But Rley was able to be a real character, who was able to express his feelings and have them considered and respected (very rarely my experience as an out, non-jerk atheist) by at least one person of faith, who also got to express her feelings about her faith. He did something bad, but also made a sacrifice for the good of others. And the people of faith were good and bad, were misled and regretted doing bad, and made sacrifices, or did bad because of their faith and regretted it or didn't, or did bad just because. The different ways they interacted with and were affected by their faith were interesting, but also touching or scary, etc. Everyone, religious or not, was good and bad (Bev was just bad but the actor who played her did a great job showing she probably did believe she was deluding herself into thinking she was doing the right thing. Still wanted her to suffer a bit more. Hey, it's fiction). I don't know. I was in tears when the faithful were singing, and then stopped, and then the ashes drifted. I don't know if that's a good answer, but I liked that for me it didn't feel like I was watching a bunch of stereotypes, believers or not. That's pretty good writing, directing, and acting (wow, some of those actors).  

[Macbeth]

I liked the slower parts of it.  I really liked the acting.  And I loved Erin's description of death.  Just turning back into a drop of water.  Becoming one with the universe again.