S01.E06: Departures

[CarpeFelis]

3 hours ago, kn51 said:

Interesting book choices for the girls at the end.  

Obviously this was done all along so we could see the titles of the books people were “reading”, but it doesn’t seem very true to life that these girls would be lugging physical books along with them on a vacation when they’d be more likely to read them on their phones or tablets.

Edited August 16, 2021 by CarpeFelis

[ahpny]

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Why wasn’t Shane arrested?

 

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Pretty easy self-defense case (particularly since he's a rich guy)

 

 

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I'm surprised he wasn't kept a little longer but the hotel had a break in which involved assault and he already knew that there was an intruder in the room.  He called out and was ignored.  And it really was an accident when he went around the corner when he should not expect anyone in that room. 

We saw the scene in full, and understood that it was entirely an accident, and that Shane had objectively good reason to be wary, and that Armond had entered his room with the intent to do (at least psychic) harm.

The Police didn’t have at least some of this knowledge. But doubts about much of that could be forensically verified through analysis Armond’s parting “gifts,” and his drug-addled state, though perhaps not that quickly. The swiftness of Shane’s absolution might be a bit surprising, but given who he was, and his connections with the management, really not that surprising at all.

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I'm not shocked that Rachel reconsidered.  She doesn't appear to be a strong person to me, and it would take a huge amount of strength to walk out on a brand new marriage during the honeymoon.

If she were a stronger person, she wouldn’t have married him in the first place. This makes total sense. Sadly, predictable and realistic.

I found the premise of this series intriguing and it worked well on several levels. It also brought back memories of a very different high-end hotel experience I had a while back. Years ago, while working as an associate at what was then the second largest law firm in the world, that firm sent all of its many associates from its numerous offices around the world to the Ritz-Carlton in Naples, Florida for a “retreat.” Hundreds of young lawyers descended on the Ritz-Carton nearly all at once and that seemed to overtax the staff, who were used smaller groups of more genteel customers. Being largely twenty-somethings, we were more casually-dressed and boisterous than their typical crowd, though associates at firms like this are hardly known to be rabble-rousers. Demographically we were essentially indistinguishable from the hotel staff, also largely twenty-something white people. But the staff treated us like we were the worst scum of the earth, and unworthy of their normal, gracious service. The contempt they showed us was so over the top that I later wrote a complaint letter to the Ritz-Carleton company that scored a “dinner for two” apology voucher. I guess I was the “Shane” of that trip.

The dynamics between high-end hotel staff and their guests are complex, and though often infected with racial issues, but not always. In my case, those dynamics appeared to be misperceived class distinctions, which were all the more curious given the generally privileged situation of Big Law associates, especially relative to the hotel staff. As put upon and abused as the staff might be, they too are not above mistreating guests who don't conform to their image of "proper" guests. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by ahpny

[Milburn Stone]

12 hours ago, Samsnee said:

So basically all the rich white people learned nothing and stayed the complete same as when they came on the island.

I really disagree with this. (And loved the finale.)

Paula has learned not to be a hypocrite. When push came to shove, it was always going to be the case that she would choose privilege. She was the only one who didn't know that. Now she does.

Rachel has learned there is a path for her to be her own person and still enjoy wealth. In fact, wealth may open up the door to that path for her. In the end, she takes responsibility for herself, rather than foisting it onto Shane or Kitty, as if the mere fact of marrying into that family would force her to relinquish herself.

Shane has grown a little. The reconciliation did not look like triumph on his part. It looked like his beginning to understand Rachel's needs. He actually felt gratitude for once, as opposed to ownership.

Quinn has grown tremendously from the sullen, lonely teenager to a young man with a sense of purpose. (Where it takes him is anybody's guess, but he's on his own journey.)

Mark has gained self-respect, Nicole has gained a new appreciation for Mark.

Olivia, for once, did not look manipulative when she embraced Paula. The compassion looked real. It may be fleeting, but at least she became capable of it.

Tanya learned something, because despite entering into a new transactional relationship with Greg (providing luxury digs for him in Aspen), she did seem to learn from Greg's mantra of "life is to be enjoyed," and it permitted her to part with her mother's ashes at last, which symbolized her beginning to free herself from her miserable past and realize that the past does not determine the future.

Even Armond (while admittedly not a rich person) learned something in his very last seconds--about the absurdity of life. And it was clear that Belinda learned something, even if it was something one might have expected she'd have learned long ago.

I was unable to make out the titles of the books the girls were reading in the airport. What were they?

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Milburn Stone

[khyber]

The most enjoyable part of the finale: "You're a very pretty man".

Yes he was, yes he was. 

[Harvey]

11 minutes ago, khyber said:

The most enjoyable part of the finale: "You're a very pretty man".

Yes he was, yes he was. 

I am unsure. Were we supposed to assume he was a gigolo? And Tanya subtly signaled to him that she is not interested?

[DiabLOL]

I felt the most interest throughout for Quinn and Belinda and I will be thinking about their stories for a long time.

Quinn found both purpose and a community. I think he could very well stay and be just fine. 
 

I thought it was all well and good to say that Belinda should have known better but all I saw was how she was basically never given a chance to say no to Tanya’s initial pushy demands. I really believe that it would have taken drastic steps for her to assert her boundaries and say no. Tanya also kept coming at her with the whole “I’m serious about this “ over and over. That combined with the conversation with her son got her to dare to believe. That led to her giving it a try. I really found her story from beginning to end devastating. No she wasn’t murdered or even fired but I found it really brutal.

Paula finally learned who she actually was vs who she wanted to believe she was which is pretty much a college age experience.

ETA: Tanyas final speech to Belinda showed how she knew exact who she is and that she was fully aware of what she was doing to her and why AND that she would of course get away with it. She was abusing her wealth and status while using what she knew would work as the “carrot”. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by DiabLOL
Additional thought

[txhorns79]

3 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I am unsure. Were we supposed to assume he was a gigolo? And Tanya subtly signaled to him that she is not interested?

I don't know if we were supposed to think he was a gigolo, but definitely someone preying on what appeared to be an older, wealthy single woman.  And yes, her telling him the chair was taken was a subtle way of telling him she was not interested. 

[CarpeFelis]

21 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I am unsure. Were we supposed to assume he was a gigolo? And Tanya subtly signaled to him that she is not interested?

Either a gigolo or an opportunist looking for a sugar mama. I didn’t think Tanya was all that subtle in shooing him away.

ETA: Was it just me or did Tanya seem to be struggling with the pronunciation of “chaise”?

Edited August 16, 2021 by CarpeFelis

[Paws]

7 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

ETA: Was it just me or did Tanya seem to be struggling with the pronunciation of “chaise”?

Not just you. That was a very odd pronunciation.

[Empress1]

37 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Rachel has learned there is a path for her to be her own person and still enjoy wealth. In fact, wealth may open up the door to that path for her. In the end, she takes responsibility for herself, rather than foisting it onto Shane or Kitty, as if the mere fact of marrying into that family would force her to relinquish herself.

I didn't see this at all. I don't think Rachel has a sense of what her own person is - if she did, as someone else said, I don't think she'd have married Shane in the first place. Half her "I made a mistake" speech was about how she basically got swept up into Shane's orbit and then she looked up and she was married. She said she was coming off a bad breakup when they met; he's the rebound guy. She's had to face that she's not a good journalist but she doesn't know what else she could be good at, and I don't think she has the fortitude to try and figure it out. She told Shane she was happy and would stay with him while crying.

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Paula has learned not to be a hypocrite. When push came to shove, it was always going to be the case that she would choose privilege. She was the only one who didn't know that. Now she does.

 

I do agree with this, although Paula isn't white (the actress is biracial with a Black mother and white father, and this article says that she and Belinda are the only Black women around). I also think Paula calling out Olivia resonated with Olivia (hence the tears), although I very much doubt it'll change Olivia's behavior.

[dmc]

best lines:

Belinda’s I’m all out of advice

and

 

How was your facial, your face looks shiny (lol tears do that)

 

Well I was right on Armand being our dead body.

 

 

Rachel…as much as I agree Shane is a complete and total dick, he’s basically accurate about you.  You don’t need to have permission to have a career and being married to a wealthy guy doesn’t make you a trophy wife.  Rachel’s issues are Rachel.  You have to be an advocate for yourself even in a marriage. 
 

Poor Kai, but we saw this coming.  
 

Paula and Olivia, treachery loves company.

I also knew Tanya would make Belinda’s business venture about her and her issues.

 

At least Connie Britton got a happy ending. When Connie is happy, I’m happy 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by dmc

[gesundheit]

9 hours ago, ichbin said:

 

Shane is a dick, but Armond was too and fanned the flame needlessly by lying and being unprofessional from the start. A guest booked into the most expensive suite deserves the room that was booked and paid for regardless of who is paying for it.

Unfortunately another guest was also booked into the most expensive suite. That was the issue. There was a double-booking, and Shane felt like he should be the default to win. 

2 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Obviously this was done all along so we could see the titles of the books people were “reading”, but it doesn’t seem very true to life that these girls would be lugging physical books along with them on a vacation when they’d be more likely to read them on their phones or tablets.

They brought the physical books because they (Paula and Olivia) wanted people to see what they were reading.

 

37 minutes ago, dmc said:

 

 

At least Connie Britton got a happy ending. When Connie is happy, I’m happy 

 

 

I don't think her son running away on an island was a happy ending! The second after the last shot of her, she was surely very unhappy.

[Misty79]

Well that was an underwhelming finale. 

I think one of the key themes was that rich white people go on vacations expecting (demanding?) transformational experiences and that rarely pans out — ‘wherever you go, there you are’ and all that — and so as viewers we shouldn’t expect character growth/transformation. But even knowing that, I was still frustrated to see everybody basically back where they started at the end. Especially Rachel, who I can relate to a little too hard. Quinn had growth, I guess, but I found him entitled and whiny and his ending was just unbelievable. 

Some great observational detail in this show but ultimately the highlights for me were the music and Alexandra Daddario’s performance. 

[Empress1]

It occurs to me that Olivia has a huge advantage over Paula because she knows what Paula did. As I said, I don't think Olivia will change as a result of her getting called out. I think as soon as Paula steps out of line, Olivia will play that card. That's what makes Paula aligning with the side of white privilege and power so sad - she'll never be one of them, even if she has money (we don't know if she does or doesn't but she was a bit too comfortable interrogating Rachel to make me think she's poor).

[dmc]

51 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

Unfortunately another guest was also booked into the most expensive suite. That was the issue. There was a double-booking, and Shane felt like he should be the default to win. 

They brought the physical books because they (Paula and Olivia) wanted people to see what they were reading.

 

I don't think her son running away on an island was a happy ending! The second after the last shot of her, she was surely very unhappy.

Her kid is smart and will do school online.  I finished high school at 17.  He's most likely fine.  

[Nancybeth]

I think the flight everyone was getting on was just going from the island they were on* to Honolulu, where presumably everyone would get flights back to the mainland, and the body would be sent back to Australia.

*(I know it was filmed in Maui, but I don't think they ever said the resort was on Maui, and I know there are plenty of flights from Maui to the the mainland so that's a bit of a convenient plot hole there.)

I don't believe, for one second, that they would be ready to ship Armond's body back the very next day, less than 24 hours after he was killed. It just wouldn't happen. It would take several days for the coroner to release it. I also question whether Shane would be able to leave so quickly but I can suspend disbelief and assume his family's high priced lawyers made that happen. 

[BC4ME]

There's an optimistic part of me that wants to believe some people learned from their experiences. I feel like they showed Shane was genuinely distressed at the situation that led to him killing Armond and his part in it. At least for a little while. Maybe what Rachael said to him taken together with him being an unnecessarily bad asshole over the Armond situation that led to Armond's death, was life changing. He's probably only in his late 20s. He can change. Maybe not a complete turnaround. But maybe good enough to be in a range where Rachael could stand him. And Racheal may have figured out how to live somewhat happily in her situation. So both are in a better place than where they were.

As for Olivia and Paula, I felt like they showed some real emotion from both of them. Maybe some realization of who they really were and how that affects other people. They too are young and can learn. Again, not a complete turn around but more insight.

Edited August 16, 2021 by BC4ME

[HC87]

It was an interesting Summah watch but I don't think I'll be returning to stay for Season 2. 

I can see the appeal of Mike White's oeuvre but it's not my cup of tea in general.

[Samsnee]

Even Quinn’s parents let him stay on the island for a year, we know they will pay for it. So his notion that he’s giving up anything is bullshit as long as he has his parents money. 

[aghst]

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Paula has learned not to be a hypocrite. When push came to shove, it was always going to be the case that she would choose privilege. She was the only one who didn't know that. Now she does.

Paula never rejected privilege.

She still let the Mossbachers pay for her meals and other expenses, after she tried to rip them off.

She didn't care about Kai.  It was a summer fling for her and she told him she won't see him again when he asked her to stay.

Did she really believe the stolen jewelry would help Kai or did she think of it to stick it to the Mossbachers?

Armand said Kai was a good employee, surprised he would do such a thing.  Paula corrupted him.

[meep.meep]

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

I am unsure. Were we supposed to assume he was a gigolo? And Tanya subtly signaled to him that she is not interested?

She told him it was someone else's chair.  So not such a subtle signal.  Tanya actually showed some growth in not just flitting away from the BLM guy to the next interest.  And she may not have funded Belinda's spa, but she didn't abandon her without a word - she told her she wouldn't be able to fund it, then gave her a big envelope of cash to use as part of a down payment. (It looked like the tip envelopes on Below Deck that typically hold $15 - $20K).  She also finally spread her mother's ashes.  So, oddly enough, I'd put her and Quinn in a tie for most positive character development.

[MartyQui]

Re: Armond’s body…I assumed the island was too small to have a medical examiner/coroner, and they were shipping the body over to Honolulu to be autopsied.

[dmc]

2 hours ago, gesundheit said:

Unfortunately another guest was also booked into the most expensive suite. That was the issue. There was a double-booking, and Shane felt like he should be the default to win. 

They brought the physical books because they (Paula and Olivia) wanted people to see what they were reading.

 

I don't think her son running away on an island was a happy ending! The second after the last shot of her, she was surely very unhappy.

However Armand lied about the cost of the suite he was paying for, lied about the booking information, and deliberatedly antagonized him for honestly the hell of it.  

With regards to the room stuff, Shane is in the right.  You can be an *sshole and be right occassionally.  Hopefully he will change for the better.  

[dmc]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Paula never rejected privilege.

She still let the Mossbachers pay for her meals and other expenses, after she tried to rip them off.

She didn't care about Kai.  It was a summer fling for her and she told him she won't see him again when he asked her to stay.

Did she really believe the stolen jewelry would help Kai or did she think of it to stick it to the Mossbachers?

Armand said Kai was a good employee, surprised he would do such a thing.  Paula corrupted him.

Paula doesn't have an issue with privilege.  She knew the family's deal and chose to go on vacation with them.  I think her thing with Kai was aimed at Olivia.  They seem to enjoy getting at each other and don't mind bringing other people into their twisted dynamic of messing with each other.   To that end, I say think you are correct.  She told Kai what she thought would make him more likely to do what she wanted him to.  But Kai had the ability to say no and didn't.  Paula doesn't have any hold over him and told him they would never meet again.  So why did he go along with it? Because on some level, he agreed with the BS she told him

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by dmc

[chediavolo]

14 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

It really needs to be said again, but Alexandra Daddario is a seriously good actress. At the start of the episode your could feel her silently freaking out, and your exactly what Rachel was feeling without her having to say a word.

That is true, but I wouldn't imagine that things would be cleared up fast enough for Shane to leave in less than a day. Hell, Armond's body was released to be sent back home just as fast. There couldn't possibly be time to even do an autopsy.

Only if they were motivated to keep investigating. The police already caught the guy and recovered all the loot. They really have no incentives to keep looking just in case he had accomplices. And in a place that lives off of tourism, I would imagine the police would be in a hurry to close the case as quickly as possible.  

Definitively the first time they showed the actual matter coming out. Other movies/shows they just show the person squatting and doing a face, but they always keep the camera on their face.

That was a pretty fat envelope. At least 20,000 dollars would be my estimation.

The S*** scene was gross. Another example of how far they will go Eleuthera tastelessness these days.
Well, $20,00 isn’t bad for being gullible to an obviously flaky guest.   She works at a spa in a luxury hotel in Hawaii, not too bad. She could sideline with private customers for extra cash.  A lot of people have it far worse. 

Too bad Rachel caved.  She is weak & she  will be sorry..

[izabella]

Someone asked which books the girls were reading at the airport.  Paula was reading "Discourse on Colonialism," and Olivia had "Ecrits A Selection."

[dmc]

I am not surprised they cleared up the Armand thing in 24 hours.  Mainly because he was fired and in a guest's room, seems fairly cut and dry.  Also if something else comes up...they just contact you.  

 

My mom and brother's family were on that cruise where the grandfather accidentally dropped the toddler. They let those people go home and still charged the grandfather later.  You can still bring charges on someone or reach out to them later

[chediavolo]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

Paula never rejected privilege.

She still let the Mossbachers pay for her meals and other expenses, after she tried to rip them off.

She didn't care about Kai.  It was a summer fling for her and she told him she won't see him again when he asked her to stay.

Did she really believe the stolen jewelry would help Kai or did she think of it to stick it to the Mossbachers?

Armand said Kai was a good employee, surprised he would do such a thing.  Paula corrupted him.

Kai is a complete moron for not telling the cops about Paulas involvement. The little entitled bitch deserves to sit in jail. 

[ichbin]

8 hours ago, Harvey said:

And should Shane be facing reprecussions? We all saw the scene.

Agreed!  Shane is an immature asshole, but...Ambrose started this off by double booking the Pineapple Suite and then not only lying about that but also regarding the price. All that needed to be done is to apologize, offer a refund, and give genuine perks to make up for it(not that special romantic dinner paid for by Tanya for a completely different reason).  Regardless of whether or not Shane is wealthy, white, a man-baby, or that his mother paid for the trip, a guest  is not wrong in expecting to receive the room which was booked and paid for.  Ambrose exacerbated the situation at every opportunity.  Add to that the fact that an expensive suite had been broken into, jewelry stolen, and two of the guests physically attacked a few days prior. Just before being surprised by Ambrose, Shane knew that someone irrational had been in the room. It all adds up to an understandable reason in Shane's defense.  

I see Ambrose and Paula as the true villains.  If not for the path they started things would not have ended as they did.

[Empress1]

3 minutes ago, chediavolo said:

Kai is a complete moron for not telling the cops about Paulas involvement. The little entitled bitch deserves to sit in jail. 

I'd have snitched on her so fucking fast.

[rozen]

12 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

I read Rachel's decision as being one out of fear as much as anything. "I can be happy" said through the most strained emotional output.

She's looking at the prospect of needing to execute a divorce from an obsessive sociopath who has just faced no consequences for killing someone she knows he had a grudge with ms she asked him to leave alone. That seems terrifying 

Thank you, exactly. The man-baby tantrum she just criticized him for resulted in him murdering the guy. And Mommy in Law pulled all the strings to get her kid out and returning home in under 24 hrs without a peep from local authorities. Can Rachel withstand that kind of firepower if she tries to divorce Shane? Can her career? She'd probably have to move continents to even find a job waitressing after Shane's family is through with her. And while Shane has a reasonable explanation for said murder, he doesn't seem to be anything other than mildly annoyed by it and as a spouse I'd find that majorly sus. 

Wow, Tanya was really like "oh she did such a great job, so I tipped her 40%, aren't I generous?" and the parting shot was Belinda had to be grateful. Tanya called her a friend, but shoved that big envelope to directly shut her up and prevent an honest conversation about the narcissism and manipulation she displayed. The irony is that if Belinda hadn't worked so hard to jump start Tanya's remaining brain cells, desperate Tanya probably would have kept her pockets open and Belinda would be an independent businesswoman. 

[BrownBear2012]

Anyone else feel the "Pineapple Suite" that Shane became obsessed with, was pretty much a let down...much like Rachel felt about her  marriage to Shane? I couldn't help but see how ordinary and Holiday Inn like the room was...nothing special at all. Shane spending all of his energy and emotion on getting the room that was given to someone else and it turned out to be a dud...just like the marriage. He said he "wined and dined" Rachel and this is what he gets in return...she fell for the wining and dining and the respect Shane got where ever they went because of his wealth and privilege but realized he was just a spoiled mama's boy who was more focused on getting what he believes he deserves rather than focusing on a shared vision for their future as a husband and wife. She realized that there would be an endless stream of "Pineapple Suites" in the future and Shane would be as obsessive about future "Pineapple Suites" as he was about this one. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by BrownBear2012

[aghst]

33 minutes ago, dmc said:

I am not surprised they cleared up the Armand thing in 24 hours.  Mainly because he was fired and in a guest's room, seems fairly cut and dry.  Also if something else comes up...they just contact you.  

 

My mom and brother's family were on that cruise where the grandfather accidentally dropped the toddler. They let those people go home and still charged the grandfather later.  You can still bring charges on someone or reach out to them later

See if a detective found out that there was beef between Armand and Shane throughout the time Shane was there, he or she might want to dig more, just to make sure it was an accident.

But the police know that tourism is the goose that lays the golden eggs.  They're not going to give the resort or prized guests too much scrutiny.

 

 

[chocolatine]

12 minutes ago, rozen said:

The man-baby tantrum she just criticized him for resulted in him murdering the guy.

Shane didn't murder anyone. He defended himself against an unknown intruder in his room, a person who had just taken a dump on his clothes. He only realized it was Armand after he'd already stabbed him. And Armand's actions are all on him, not on Shane. Wealthy guests at upscale resorts throw "man-baby tantrums" all the time, and management's job is to deal with it professionally. Armand's death is nobody's fault but his own.

7 minutes ago, BrownBear2012 said:

She realized that there would be an endless stream of "Pineapple Rooms" in the future and Shane would be as obsessive about future "Pineapple Rooms" as he was about this one. 

And yet she chose to stay with him.

[tennisgurl]

Dear Trip Adviser, 

The White Lotus has lovely rooms, spectacular views, and a breakfast buffet with a wide selection of food and beverages. I was however, mostly disappointed in my trip. I spent an hour in line behind a very loud man arguing with the manager about a room change, my surfing excursion of ruined by a woman attempting to toss what looked like dust out of a vacuum into the ocean while screaming, my morning jog was interrupted by a teenager sleeping on the beach (very concerning) who I almost tripped over, I spent half of my pool day avoiding a middle aged man who kept asking me if I knew anything about anal sex, the couple in the room across the hall from me were victims of an armed robbery (I heard that the robber was wielding an AK-47) and assault, various staff members seemed to be on the verge of tears whenever I was looking for assistance, and when I went to look for the manager he was nowhere to be found and his office door was shut. I later asked the aforementioned manager why I was no longer scheduled for my previously arranged snorkeling trip, and he would only say that I was mistaken, and then wandered away. I was greatly shocked to discover that that same manager was later accidently stabbed by a guest, which really put a damper on the whole vacation. Also, it literally smelled like shit. 

Will not return. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Empress1]

18 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

He defended himself against an unknown intruder in his room, a person who had just taken a dump on his clothes. He only realized it was Armand after he'd already stabbed him.

I also got the impression that it was an accident - Shane was holding the knife and Armand came around the corner and kind of ran into it. I didn't see Shane make an intentional stabbing motion and he was clearly rattled by it.

"There had been a break-in the day before so I was on edge. The hotel hadn't told us about the break-in or taken any extra safety precautions. I had the knife to protect me and my wife in case someone tried to break into our room. I heard a noise, I had the knife in my hand, and when Armand came around the corner he ran into it." That sounds reasonable to me. I don't think anybody except Armand, Shane, and Rachel knew the extent of the rift between Shane and Armand and Rachel and Shane certainly aren't going to say anything.

[dmc]

25 minutes ago, aghst said:

See if a detective found out that there was beef between Armand and Shane throughout the time Shane was there, he or she might want to dig more, just to make sure it was an accident.

But the police know that tourism is the goose that lays the golden eggs.  They're not going to give the resort or prized guests too much scrutiny.

 

 

I feel like vacation places get stuff handled fast.  It doesn't mean they don't have the usual investigative processes.  But they have a different style because most people are transient.  Also there tends to be the idea, like the main source of revenue is tourism...so the quicker we clean this up we can go back to making money.  I am absolutely sure they will look at the cameras and meet with the staff.  But the fact is at the point where you are fired why are you in a guest's room?  I mean people tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the person not breaking in

[chocolatine]

9 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I don't think anybody except Armand, Shane, and Rachel knew the extent of the rift between Shane and Armand and Rachel and Shane certainly aren't going to say anything.

Also, Armand's boss knows that Shane knows that Armand had been doing drugs and having sex with a subordinate in his office. It was in his interest to smooth the situation over ASAP lest Shane go public with his knowledge - that kind of bad publicity would ruin the business. So I'm sure he was more than happy to corroborate everything Shane said to the police and instructed the rest of the staff to do the same.

[rozen]

41 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Shane didn't murder anyone. He defended himself against an unknown intruder in his room, a person who had just taken a dump on his clothes. He only realized it was Armand after he'd already stabbed him. And Armand's actions are all on him, not on Shane. Wealthy guests at upscale resorts throw "man-baby tantrums" all the time, and management's job is to deal with it professionally. Armand's death is nobody's fault but his own.

And yet she chose to stay with him.

We know that, Rachel does not. All she knows is the one night she leaves him to his own devices he somehow ends up killing the man he's had an ongoing feud with their entire honeymoon. And he seems only mildly irritated about it. Hence, why from the character's POV Shane is looking pretty sus and not worth pissing off right now.

Edited August 16, 2021 by rozen

[BrownBear2012]

38 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Shane didn't murder anyone. He defended himself against an unknown intruder in his room, a person who had just taken a dump on his clothes. He only realized it was Armand after he'd already stabbed him. And Armand's actions are all on him, not on Shane. Wealthy guests at upscale resorts throw "man-baby tantrums" all the time, and management's job is to deal with it professionally. Armand's death is nobody's fault but his own.

And yet she chose to stay with him.

Yep…I think when he said that she would regret this or something to that affect, she saw this as a threat and that leaving him would be a financial and personal disaster for her. I think she saw how crazy he got over a room mistake and felt that this would be even worse and he would ruin her life. She made a decision based on a threat…No one ever makes good decisions when they are threatened and are not equals in the argument. She came into the relationship with nothing…no money or stature. I’m not agreeing with her decision to stay but I understand it. This guy would bulldoze her in every way possible.

[DiabLOL]

The way Shane talked about his “badass travel agent” filled me with disgust and loathing that will be with me for a while. 

 

[chocolatine]

9 minutes ago, rozen said:

We know that, Rachel does not. All she knows is the one night she leaves him to his own devices he somehow ends up killing the man he's had an ongoing feud with their entire honeymoon. And he seems only mildly irritated about it. Hence, why from the character's POV Shane is looking pretty sus and not worth pissing off right now.

That doesn't make any sense. Rachel knew that Shane was worried about a break-in and put the knife on the nightstand for self-defense. She also knew he was gloating about having his travel agent call Armand's manager and get him fired. Shane's goal was to humiliate Armand and prove himself (if only in his own mind) as the alpha. Violence does not factor into any of this.

4 minutes ago, BrownBear2012 said:

Yep…I think when he said that she would regret this or something to that affect, she saw this as a threat and that leaving him would be a financial and personal disaster for her. I think she saw how crazy he got over a room mistake and felt that this would be even worse and he would ruin her life. She made a decision based on a threat…No one ever makes good decisions when they are threatened and are not equals in the argument. She came into the relationship with nothing…no money or stature. I’m not agreeing with her decision to stay but I understand it. This guy would bulldoze her in every way possible.

I think this is wildly exaggerated. Shane does not have so much power that he could get every publication to blacklist Rachel. He'd be pissed off for a while, have his lawyers make sure that Rachel doesn't get any money in the divorce, but I'm sure he'd move on quickly to another "hot" woman, encouraged by his mother. Kitty wouldn't let him wallow over a "nobody" like Rachel. My takeaway is that Rachel really doesn't want to go back to her old life, so she's choosing to take the "Faustian bargain" knowing full well what the implications are.

[BrownBear2012]

2 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

That doesn't make any sense. Rachel knew that Shane was worried about a break-in and put the knife on the nightstand for self-defense. She also knew he was gloating about having his travel agent call Armand's manager and get him fired. Shane's goal was to humiliate Armand and prove himself (if only in his own mind) as the alpha. Violence does not factor into any of this.

I think this is wildly exaggerated. Shane does not have so much power that he could get every publication to blacklist Rachel. He'd be pissed off for a while, have his lawyers make sure that Rachel doesn't get any money in the divorce, but I'm sure he'd move on quickly to another "hot" woman, encouraged by his mother. Kitty wouldn't let him wallow over a "nobody" like Rachel. My takeaway is that Rachel really doesn't want to go back to her old life, so she's choosing to take the "Faustian bargain" knowing full well what the implications are.

Well we are all speculating on what the writers had in mind…I was trying to understand her flight or fight thinking and as a woman who didn’t even have an established, successful career to lean on, I was speculating that she might have felt that she had no options…walking away would have been something she didn’t have the strength to emotionally or financially handle. 

[Penman61]

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

In fairness to Shane, he truly thought there was a prowler in his room, and he was on edge after hearing about how the other theft led to a guest being assaulted.  Aside from guilt, I don't think he should face more serious consequences.  I also don't think Shane is a sociopath.  I think Rachel had it right in calling him a man baby.  He's very immature, but not dangerous in the sense that Rachel should fear for her safety.   

100% disagree with the last sentence. Shane is completely wired to act out whenever he doesn’t get his way, and he exhibited multiple signs of escalating rage and violence that, while they didn’t include overt physical threats to Rachel, they did include violently pounding on the table IN PUBLIC at Rachel when she frustrated him. You’d be surprised how many “man-babies” beat the living shit out of their partners.

[Rickster]

An eerily similar real life situation that might have inspired Shane’s plotline, but this guy may potentially be  charged with manslaughter (it was a foreign country though)

 

Banker May Be Extradited To Anguilla

[skotnikov]

On 8/16/2021 at 9:16 PM, izabella said:

Someone asked which books the girls were reading at the airport.  Paula was reading "Discourse on Colonialism," and Olivia had "Ecrits A Selection."

Ecrits A Selection by J. Lacan 

It supposed look meta meta  (they are the  group of colonists, Olivia can't possibly understand what Lacan has written, because well no one understands Lacan, even in the academia), but it  just a funny remark about how pretentious/pathetic the director is. I bet most of us understood what the show is about without those easter eggs. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by skotnikov

[tennisgurl]

The Mike White turtle arrives again! While I cant say that this was up there with some of Mike White's best works (its really hard to beat Enlightened) I found it to be really engaging, with great performances, atmosphere, and a lot of interesting rumination on wealth and privilege. I figured that Armond would be the person in the box, even when they tried to tease us with it being Tanya's new boyfriend, but I definitely thought it would be an overdose, not accidently being stabbed by Shane. Its hard to tell if anyone really learned anything here or are in a really different place from the start to the end. The Mossbacher's marriage has improved even if their underlying issues are still there, Paula realized that she isn't so different than the rich people she disdains so much, leaving Kai high and dry after being caught being part of her petty revenge scheme, Rachel realized that she has basically signed up for a life as a trophy wife, but has just decided to go with it, Belinda got a harsh reminder about putting too much trust into the wealthy and flighty, I would say the only person who actually learned something that really benefitted them is Quinn, who found joy in the natural world and a sense of community with the canoe guys. 

Well, I guess Armond certainly changed a lot, being dead and all. 

Paula has a lot of nerve giving big speeches to Olivia about what a shitty person she is when Paula is the one who convinced some a poor kid she was dating to steal from her friends family in a petty attempt to "get back at" them for being so annoyingly rich. Not that Olivia doesn't suck or that Paula was wrong about Olivia being fake woke and wanting to be friends with a black girl to look better (although Olivia did seem to be hurt at that accusation) but Paula is the one hiding her eyes while her partner in crime is having his life ruined because of the idea she had in the first place. 

Paula and Olivia actually are an interesting contrast to Quinn. Paula and Olivia both talk all of the time about oppression and how the rich mistreat the poor and colonialism and say all of the typical "woke" talking points, but its clear that they're just talking points for them so they sound cool, they don't really affect how they actually live their lives. Olivia will probably just live a rich girl life forever, maybe donating to charity during big fancy auctions but will be totally fine living in her rich bubble taking advantage of the system that she complains about, and Paula's attempt to "help" people that have been oppressed by the powerful was a foolhardy mess based around a personal vendetta under the guise of helping people that ended up hurting the very people she was trying to help while hiding behind her own privilage to avoid consequences. They can talk the talk, but they cant walk the walk. Meanwhile, Quinn seems to be a pretty apolitical kid more interested in his phone and jerking off then in any kind of greater causes or life experiences who ends up having his eyes open to the natural world and the amazing experiences people outside his rich bubble can have, and decides to leave that behind to really find fulfillment with people his sister can give lectures on but never seems to talk to (unless its to mess with Paula) and live a more meaningful life. Yeah its not practical at all and his parents will obviously track him down, the logistics of him doing this as a minor pretty much guarantees this boat trip wont last as long as he wants it to, but hopefully he continues down this path, embracing life and people outside the bubble instead of materialism and the 1% as he gets older, and he can head back to the water as soon as he turns eighteen. I do feel for the kid, he seems really lonely with no friends and a family that hardly pays attention to him, no wonder running off to sail away into the sunset sounded so appealing. Its an interesting look into people that like to sound above materialism and wealth but don't actually follow through, versus people that actually go out and do things and reject materialism. 

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah its not practical at all and his parents will obviously track him down, the logistics of him doing this as a minor pretty much guarantees this boat trip wont last as long as he wants it to, but hopefully he continues down this path, embracing life and people outside the bubble instead of materialism and the 1% as he gets older, and he can head back to the water as soon as he turns eighteen

The Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast (which is hosted by Linda Holmes, who some of you might know as Television Without Pity’s Miss Alli) reviewed this show and one of the panelists said this trip will be Quinn’s Teach for America or Peace Corps application essay.

[letter8358]

This was renewed for another season?!? 

[ichbin]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I figured that Armond would be the person in the box, even when they tried to tease us with it being Tanya's new boyfriend, but I definitely thought it would be an overdose, not accidently being stabbed by Shane.

That box being loaded on the plane in the first episode set up that someone had died.  Here's the thing though.  We're all assuming Armond was in the box, but it could well have been anyone.  Unless Armond was being shipped to a coroner on a different island it is doubtful his body would have been released so quickly. Tourists also die on vacation resulting in their bodies being shipped.  Even residents.  I don't think we know more than seeing a box and hearing the couple in the airport mentioning someone had died at a resort.