Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022)

[AimingforYoko]

Speaking of Riri(the fictional one) Riri vs Okoye('s skin condition):

[tv echo]

Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | Throne
Marvel Entertainment    Oct 26,, 2022

Marvel Studios' Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | Time
Marvel Entertainment    Oct 27,, 2022

[tv echo]

There are even more videos from the Oct. 26 red carpet that are posted on Marvel's YouTube videos page...

Kevin Feige On Expanding the MCU with Phase Four and Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Marvel Entertainment    Oct 27, 2022

Ryan Coogler On Returning To The World Of Wakanda In Marvel Studios' Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Marvel Entertainment    Oct 26, 2022

Angela Bassett On The Emotions Of Returning To Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Marvel Entertainment    Oct 26, 2022

Danai Gurira and Letitia Wright On The Strong Black Women In Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Marvel Entertainment    Oct 26, 2022

Lupita Nyong'o On Nakia In Marvel Studios' Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Marvel Entertainment    Oct 27, 2022

Tenoch Huerta On Bringing Namor To The MCU in Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Marvel Entertainment    Oct 26, 2022

Just highlights from red carpet:
Best Red Carpet Moments! | Marvel Studios' Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Marvel Entertainment    Oct 27,, 2022

Full red carpet premiere:
Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | Red Carpet LIVE
Marvel Entertainment    Streamed live on Oct 26, 2022

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Overwhelmingly positive...

'Black Panther: Wakanda Forever' Early Social Reactions Call It "Cathartic," "Epic" and "a Beautiful Tribute"
BY ERICK MASSOTO  PUBLISHED 1 DAY AGO
https://collider.com/black-panther-wakanda-forever-reactions-reviews-is-it-good-marvel/ 

Quote

... Judging by the early reactions coming in from critics, however, it seems like director Ryan Coogler and screenwriter Joe Robert Cole did a fantastic job of not only honoring the memory of Boseman, but also elevating the stakes of the franchise, being a visual spectacle, and providing a satisfying end to this arc of the Marvel Universe.

The First Reactions to Black Panther: Wakanda Forever Are In
By Josh Rosenberg      Oct 27, 2022
https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a41788727/black-panther-wakanda-forever-first-review-reactions/ 

Quote

... The film also reportedly featured a jaw-dropping end-credits tease and the first new song from Rihanna in over six years, titled "Lift Me Up." Massive praise on social media followed the premiere, with critics lauding Tenoch Huerta's performance and the sequel's tear-jerking, respectful homages to their fallen hero. ....

‘Black Panther: Wakanda Forever’ First Reactions Herald ‘Marvel’s Most Poignant and Powerful Film’
By Zack Sharf, J. Kim Murphy    Oct 26, 2022
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/black-panther-2-first-reactions-marvel-1235412742/ 

Marvel’s ‘Black Panther: Wakanda Forever’: First Reactions From the World Premiere
BY ABID RAHMAN    OCTOBER 26, 2022
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/black-panther-wakanda-forever-first-reactions-premiere-1235248887/ 

‘Black Panther: Wakanda Forever’ First Reactions: Marvel’s ‘Most Intimate and Heartfelt’ Movie
Samantha Bergeson    Oct 27, 2022
https://www.indiewire.com/2022/10/black-panther-wakanda-forever-first-reactions-1234776399/ 
 

Edited October 28, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

Marvel Studios' Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | Remember
Marvel Entertainment   Nov 1, 2022

Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | Namor
Marvel Entertainment   Nov 1, 2022

BLACK PANTHER: WAKANDA FOREVER ORIGINALLY HAD AN ENDGAME-CENTRIC STORY, DIRECTOR REVEALS
ERIC FRANCISCO    NOVEMBER 1, 2022
https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/black-panther-wakanda-forever-ryan-coogler-interview 

Quote

Now, as Black Panther: Wakanda Forever’s November 11 release draws near, Coogler tells Inverse what the movie would have been about had Boseman been able to participate. The biggest surprise may be that even before the actor’s death, the movie was always going to be about grief.

“The tonal shift, I will say, was less of a shift than in [casting],” Coogler says.
*  *  *
The predominant tone of grief felt in the final version of Wakanda Forever was present in Coogler’s original drafts. But in earlier versions of the movie, it was Boseman’s T’Challa mourning the loss of time.
*  *  *
“The tone was going to be similar,” Coogler says. “The character was going to be grieving the loss of time, you know, coming back after being gone for five years. As a man with so much responsibility to so many, coming back after a forced five years absence, that’s what the film was tackling. He was grieving time he couldn’t get back. Grief was a big part of it.”

After Boseman died, Coogler worked with co-writer Joe Robert Cole to draft a new story. While the plot and protagonist changed, there are still elements of Wakanda Forever left from Coogler’s original script. Namor the Sub-mariner, played by Tenoch Huerta, “was always the antagonist.”
*  *  *
“Who the protagonist was, the flaws of the protagonist, what the protagonist was dealing with in their journey, all of that stuff had to be different due to us losing him and the decisions that we made about moving forward.”

Edited November 2, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Rihanna...

Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | Lift Me Up
Marvel Entertainment     Nov 3, 2022

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | One Week
Marvel Entertainment    Nov 4, 2022

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Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | Live
Marvel Entertainment    1 day ago

'Black Panther: Wakanda Forever' Interviews with Ryan Coogler, Danai Gurira + More!
CinemaBlend   Nov 1, 2022

[tv echo]

BLACK PANTHER: WAKANDA FOREVER FIRST REVIEWS: THOUGHTFUL, SPECTACULAR SEQUEL THAT RAISES THE BAR FOR THE MCU
by Christopher Campbell | November 8, 2022
https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/black-panther-wakanda-forever-first-reviews/ 

Quote

Hardly just another sequel in the MCU, Black Panther: Wakanda Forever has the pressure of following up the best-reviewed movie of the franchise — which was also up for Best Picture (and won three of its six other Oscar nominations). Of course, the second Black Panther feature is also missing its former lead, Chadwick Boseman, who sadly died of cancer in 2020. According to the first reviews of Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, though, the sequel manages to still live up to the original and meet expectations for another thrilling and culturally meaningful superhero blockbuster while feeling equally weighed down by and lifted up by Boseman’s legacy.

Here’s what critics are saying about Black Panther: Wakanda Forever:

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever Reveals All 15 Songs Featured In Movie
By Savannah Sanders    November 8, 2022
https://thedirect.com/article/black-panther-wakanda-forever-songs-artists-movie 

Quote

Ahead of Black Panther: Wakanda Forever's November 11 release, Disney's official press release for the Marvel Studios sequel has revealed all 15 songs that play during the sequel. 
*  *  *
The full list can be seen below:

Funeral - Baaba Maal
Welcome Back - Baaba Maal
Anya Mmiri - CKay feat. PinkPantheress
Love & Loyalty (Believe) - DBN Gogo, Kamo Mphela, Young Stunna, and Busiswa
Can't Stop - Red Hot Chili Peppers
La Vida - Snow Tha Product feat. E40
Limoncello - OG DAYV
They Want It But No - Tobe Nwigwe & Fat Nwigwe
Arboles Bajo El Mar - Vivir Quintana & Mare Advertencia 
Con La Brisa - Foudeqush
Interlude - Stormzy
Alone - Burna Boy
Coming Back For You - Fireboy DML
Lift Me Up - Rihanna
Laayli' Kuxa'ano'one - ADN MAYA: Pat Boy, Yaalen K'uj, All Mayan Winik 

Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | Ryan Coogler
Marvel Entertainment   1 day ago

Edited November 9, 2022 by tv echo

[Raja]

All of my go to reviewers except the hard recast advocates liked their viewing 

[dwmarch]

I saw the movie today and I'll keep my initial review spoiler free since I don't think it officially releases until tomorrow.

I liked it although I think the movie could have been a little tighter. I found the middle to be meandering. It was all interesting but I think there could have been some cuts here and there.

The Marvel logo almost brought a tear to my eye. Very nicely done.

There is very little humor in the movie. As you'd expect with Chadwick Boseman's passing, the movie starts somber and mostly stays that way. There were a couple of laughs but this movie definitely wasn't trying to be a comedy with superheroes in it.

Unfortunately, the theater I was in didn't have the best audio so a lot of the dialog was muddy while the explosions were absurdly loud. But that gives me something to look forward to on a rewatch. And I'm glad I saw it in the theater. Some of the set pieces are incredible and there is so much detail all over the place. It was a treat for the eyes, that's for sure.

There is no stinger after all the credits. There is a mid-credits scene but Marvel usually has a stinger right at the end to set up the next movie. Not with this one but as with the somber tone, I get why.

[wanderingstar]

Saw the film last night and absolutely LOVED it. I'm glad they gave the characters - and the audience - space to mourn T'Challa and Chadwick Boseman.

LOVED Namor! Tenoch Huerta crackles ever time he's on screen. His scenes with Angela Basset's Ramonda are some of the best in the movie.

And I loved Shuri's journey. I lost my Grandma last year, so Ramonda's conversation with Shuri about death not being the end and our loved ones still being with us even when they're no longer physically present really hit me.

It was just great seeing all the characters and being in this world again.

[tv echo]

Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | Mexico City Q&A
Marvel Entertainment     Nov 10, 2022

Dream Team-Ups? | The Cast & Crew of Marvel Studios' Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Marvel Entertainment     Nov 10, 2022

Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | Guess Who
Marvel Entertainment     Nov 11, 2022

Around the Table with the 'Black Panther: Wakanda Forever' Cast | Entertainment Weekly
Entertainment Weekly    Nov 11, 2022

Edited November 11, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Major SPOILERS (I know it's in the headline, but bears repeating)...

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever: 10 Biggest Spoilers Explained
By Russ Milheim   November 11, 2022
https://thedirect.com/article/black-panther-wakanda-forever-spoilers-explained 

[AngieBee1]

Liked it, didn't love it and that's because tonally it was uneven; understandably so because Coogler had to do rewrites after Boseman's passing. Loved the action stuff and all the Talocan and Namor stuff was sensational.

The film was an extremely fitting tribute to Boseman and the character and does keep in line with everything we have been shown and told about how death isn't the end.

Love Okeye. Danai Gurira is wonderful. My one major complaint - too little Michaela Coel. 

[thuganomics85]

Saw it last night and gave it my normal time to process it.  Spoilers ahead, naturally:

Definitely my favorite Marvel film this year (not a contest at all) and a solid shot at being the best out of the Phase 4 films (still have lots of love for Shang-Chi though.)  Maybe a few issues where there, but considering everything that happened, I was kind of impressed over how Ryan Cooger (and co-writer Joe Robert Cole) was able to pull all of this off and did a great job at still making it not just an entertaining film but being emotionally true as well.  It really served as a tribute to both T'Challa and Chadwick Boseman, but never felt too heavy-handed or emotionally manipulative.  You could just tell that everyone involved really wanted to pay tribute to both the character and the actor, and show how important he was to not just those who worked with him, but the audiences and fans who watched him and loved seeing him on screen.  And yet it still did justice for the rest of the characters/cast as well and hopefully established many of them to stick around for years to come.  And while I've heard a few complaints already about it being slow or even boring, I truly thought it flew by better than the other MCU films this year, despite its longer run time.  All in all, it was more than a win.

I liked how the film had no qualms about showing everyone's grief after T'Challa's death and how it effected everyone different, but realistically.  Shuri throwing herself fully into her work and kept trying to do avoid doing everything to really address her feelings (plus feeling guilty for not being able to make a cure in time.)  Ramonda clearly hit hard over the loss of her son, but truly believing he was in a better place now and strengthening her beliefs in Wakanda's religion and culture.  Nakia being so grief-stricken that she couldn't even be in Wakanda anymore and leaving to Haiti.  M'Baku and Okoye both striving to be even better at their positions/jobs and live by his example.  On the flip side, it was sadly realistic seeing how all of the foreign governments were trying to use his passing for their own gain.  Times like this is when you can see why Wakandans kind of just want to be left alone and avoid making allies.

Namor and the Talocans more than lived up to the hype.  Really liked the glimpses we saw of their city and their culture, and how similar they were to the Wakandans, but also how different they are as well.  They are another civilization that have had unspeakable acts done upon them, but while the Wakandans are more about self-preservation and maintaining some form of peace, the Talocans (and Namor) are more than willing to strike first if it is to their advantage and don't care if Wakanda is part of their casualty list if they don't agree to their terms.  Really can't wait to see more of them going forward.

I do think they probably could have still told a lot of this story the same without the introduction of the Riri character, but she was still a fun addition and I'm looking forward to her show.  Same with the return of Ross and finding out he's the ex husband of none other than good old (deep breathe) Valentina Allegra de Fontaine! 

Acting was on point as always.  I know Letitia Wright as become a polarizing figure now due to her stance on certain issues in real life, but if one is able to separate that (which I known can vary from person to person), I thought she showed once again why Shuri was such a fan favorite in the first film and did a good job at being the de facto lead character this time more or less.  Lupita Nyong'o was awesome as always with the only downside being that I still wanted more Nakia than we got but that's just because I want more Lupita Nyong'o in everything!  Danai Gurira and Winston Duke was excellent as always.  Dominique Thorne was likable as well.  If I have to pick my favorites though, it would go to Angela Bassett and Tenoch Huerta.  Bassett is always excellent even on her bad days, but it was obvious that she was going all in here and she was just a powerhouse in every scene she was in.  Probably one of the best performances out of the entire MCU.  Meanwhile, Tenoch was just a revelation here.  Just so captivating and commanding on screen and his mere physical presence was just as powerful as his line delivery and other "normal acting stuff."  Great casting with him and I can't wait to see more of Namor going forward.

I honestly don't know what the hell some are talking about on other places on the net about a lack of action here.  I thought the fight/battle sequences were spectacular.  The Talocans and their style of fighting really meshes well with the Wakandans and their style.  I honestly thought it was much better than the battle scenes in the first film.

Another top notch score and soundtrack.  Ludwig Goransson is easily becoming one of my favorite composers in the business.

The only real negative I have might be a major hot take (SPOILER!): I was underwhelmed by the "Killmonger" appearance in Shuri's vision.  I get what they were going for and I'm sure a lot of it was also because Michael B. Jordan wanted to have some part in this film (understandable), but it was the only moment that felt borderline fan service and used just to surprise the audience.  And while part of it might have been because he was really playing a variation of Shuri's emotions (kind of), I thought Michael was overacting in it and it didn't mesh with almost everyone else's performances here.  Just didn't fully work for me.

The use of Chadwick was perfect: from just having him during the Marvel logo crawl to the final montage without any music playing.  He really will be missed.

Whatever can be said about the quality of Phase 4 in general (and I certainly have a lot of opinions on that), at least it ended on a strong note.

[Morrigan2575]

Huh, so the leaks were right? Interesting 

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Major SPOILERS (I know it's in the headline, but bears repeating)...

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever: 10 Biggest Spoilers Explained
By Russ Milheim   November 11, 2022
https://thedirect.com/article/black-panther-wakanda-forever-spoilers-explained 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, AngieBee1 said:

Liked it, didn't love it and that's because tonally it was uneven; understandably so because Coogler had to do rewrites after Boseman's passing. Loved the action stuff and all the Talocan and Namor stuff was sensational.

Tonally uneven is a good description. There was a lot to love but I really didn’t like it as an origin story. I loved the fight sequences that didn’t include armored suits. The Black Panther suit is the only design I didn’t hate and I didn’t think the Black Panther fight sequence were well done. 

[Raja]

Still on the post movie high but right now I liked Wakanda Forever better than Black Panther. Having seen the movie with a rather old audience during the holiday afternoon there wasn't much audience reaction except the mourning of he loss of characters. Especially when I compare it to the big audience pop, at the same theater when the Wakanda place marker came up during Infinity War.

My biggest plot mistake

Spoiler

was the plan to kill a scientist after the horse had left the barn, Engineers had already taken the work and produced working models so killing her would accomplish absolutely nothing. Just like she or the Iron Monger, Hammer tech with Whiplash and others do to a clothes designer on She-Hulk  were able to produce working stuff after Tony Stark let them know what was possible.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Raja

[AimingforYoko]

It didn't hit me until Nakia had said she fled Wakanda six years earlier, this was everyone's second time mourning T'Challa. Man, that's a lot of grief to visit on one family.

What ever you feel about Letitia's off-screen nonsense, she did a great job in what was essentially a lead role. All the ladies did.

Mid-credit scene: Interesting way to keep T'Challa. It'll be a few years before the kid's in Black Panther shape, though.

Stray observation: Ross was married to Val? Doesn't seem like her type, but okay.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Raja said:

Still on the post movie high but right now I liked Wakanda Forever better than Black Panther. Having seen the movie with a rather old audience during the holiday afternoon there wasn't much audience reaction except the mourning of he loss of characters. Especially when I compare it to the big audience pop, at the same theater when the Wakanda place maker came up during Infinity War.

My biggest plot mistake

  Hide contents

was the plan to kill a scientist after the horse had left the barn, Engineers had already taken the work and produced working models so killing her would accomplish absolutely nothing. Just like she or the Iron Monger, Hammer tech with Whiplash and others do to a clothes designer on She-Hulk  were able to produce working stuff after Tony Stark let them know what was possible.

They didn’t take her tech and produce working models. They took her working model and used it for their own purposes. It was still her build and they apparently couldn’t figure out her design. Shuri mentioned the detector included repurposed parts from junk. If the military was able to figure out her design that wouldn’t have been the case. Just like how Iron Monger and Hammer weren’t able to figure out the arc reactor tech without Tony. In each case they needed a one in a million genius to make it work. I saw that as more of a parallel to Tony than a plot hole.

I’m really trying not to think to hard about the plot because the logic of Namor killing the Queen and giving Shuri a week to prepare, the Wakandans ambushing an super powerful aquatic species in the middle of an ocean and Shuri surviving that wound felt really off to me. 

3 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

What ever you feel about Letitia's off-screen nonsense, she did a great job in what was essentially a lead role.

I may be in the minority but I wasn’t impressed with her acting in the more dramatic anger scenes. I’m sure a lot of that was because she was surrounded by acting powerhouses. She’s a strong actor but Ramonda’s reaction to everything and Okoye’s reaction to losing Shuri and her position were more powerful. 

[angora]

I lucked out yesterday. Between crappy weather and my multiplex having showtimes every 15 minutes on a Thursday afternoon, I was able to find a showing with few enough people for my COVID-cautious self.

In a word, I loved it. I haven't quite come down from the new-movie high, so I might have more issues with it in time, but I thought it was beautiful. The tributes to Chadwick/T'Challa were deeply moving--that intro!--and I thought it was overall a gorgeous way to explore all the characters' grief over T'Challa while the cast and crew were working through their own grief over Chadwick.

His presence was still felt throughout the film, but the remaining cast/characters didn't feel insufficient. One thing I'd loved about the first movie was how T'Challa was just SURROUNDED by smart, capable, badass women that he respected and valued, and all of them really get to shine here. Even though I haven't liked things Leticia Wright has said and done outside of the film, I was able to watch her onscreen and only see Shuri. I thought the way they handled her story, retreating into her work because 1) she's not ready to really deal with her grief and 2) she still blames herself for not being able to save T'Challa, made for a good story. It was also a fitting detail that she felt detached from the idea that T'Challa could still be present in her life because she didn't really believe in the rituals/religion.

Angela Bassett was SERVING. Oh man, that scene of Ramonda at the U.N. was so regal and badass, I loved it. Even though Shuri was very dismissive of her worries about getting involved in a mission, it was clear that Ramonda was being overprotective because she was clinging to the only family she had left. And yet, of course, when danger was coming at her, she didn't think twice about stepping forward to trying and shield Riri.

I was excited to see Riri onscreen, and Dominique Thorne did not disappoint. Ironheart is one of the few comics that I've read, so it was nice to see the film do justice to her character. I liked her dynamic with Shuri, and she got some good laughs in while still feeling like Riri. As much as I'm sure she was floored by being in Wakanda and having access to all that tech, I'm glad she had to leave the suit there. It made sense, given the obvious fervor the U.S. and Europe had for vibranium, and besides, I really want to see her building her permanent suit in Ironheart.

Danai Gurira is just so damn good as Okoye. I loved how stern and protective she was of Shuri and Riri in the field, how hard she fought to try and keep them safe, and how wrecked she was when Shuri was taken. It killed me every time she called Ramonda "mother." Not as much Nakia as I would've wanted, but Lupita Nyong'o was fantastic as always. I liked how the story of her leaving Wakanda was gradually teased out over the course of the film, and all her scenes with Shuri were great. Not a ton of M'Baku, either, but Winston Duke made every moment onscreen count. Love that character.

Then there was Namor and Talokan. I really liked Tenoch Huerta Mejia in Narcos: Mexico, and he's fantastic here--such a compelling, charismatic, badass antagonist. I especially loved the scene of him taking the throne in Talokan and preparing his people for war, as well as his time with Shuri in his grotto. With Talokan, my first instinct was to wish that the scenes were brighter, but I ultimately decided I liked it that way. Besides it making sense for a deep underwater kingdom to be dark, media has taught us for so long that light means "good" and dark means "bad," so I like that Shuri recognized the life and beauty of this kingdom and its people so far from the real sun. Their battle scenes were so cool, too. I loved the whales, their creepy siren song, those water bombs, and Namor's wings.

Although, side note: Namor said, more than once, that he's called "Nah-MOR." So why did all the Wakandans and Riri say "NAY-mor"?

One final detail I really loved was the simple, elegant way the subtitles differentiated between the various languages in the film with different colors. A subtle but very clear way of highlighting the importance of language in specific moments, like Nakia giving Shuri a surreptitious warning in the middle of talking to one of Namor's people.

[scarynikki12]

15 hours ago, angora said:

It was also a fitting detail that she felt detached from the idea that T'Challa could still be present in her life because she didn't really believe in the rituals/religion.

It also made meeting her nephew resonate more. Ramona only needed nature and the elements to reassure her T'Challa was still with her while Shuri gently scoffed at the idea. Meeting little Toussaint gives her tangible evidence T'Challa is still with her. 

I like how the two Black Panther movies have explored the idea that the antagonists have solid points surrounded by terrible plans of execution. Killmonger's anger at Wakanda refusing to step in and solve world problems as they easily could was legit while his plans to conquer was not. Namor's fear of discover, invasion, and seeing the Spanish conquest from centuries ago repeat itself is legit while deciding to wage war on the surface is not. For every person on the surface who would happily encourage it (Toby Ziegler I'm ashamed!) there are so many who would not want it and they would be among those to die in the process. Shuri deciding to embrace the T'Challa part of her and spare Namor, along with a truce, was a nice resolution to the conflict. 

Which brings me to M'Baku. Winston Duke is an absolute gem and I find it really smart to have him challenge (and, I assume, win) the throne at the end. He demonstrated solid leadership in this movie and having Shuri focus on being a tech genius and Black Panther while he leads Wakanda should be fun going forward. 

Riri is a delight. I was aways going to watch her show but now I'm actively looking forward. 

[JessePinkman]

I have a LOT of thoughts about this movie but I just need to say that our introduction to Talokan is one of most beautiful sequences I’ve ever seen. Utterly breathtaking. 

[Sakura12]

I liked this, it wasn't the best MCU movie, but definitely the best in phase 4. I liked how they showed how people grieve differently. Romanda had faith, while Shuri a scientist needs proof and seeing T'Challa's son proves that he lives on. 

So they have a new group of warriors with the midnight angels. I did like Namor, he was a little aggressive in his need to kill Riri though. He didn't even speak to her to ask her about what part she played. She's a kid. It looks more like the government stole her work, she didn't know what they were doing with it. I'm slightly more interested in her show now. Although its being from my home city of Chicago that makes me more interested in her. Lol 

Did Namor say he was mutant, is this our second confirmed mutant?

So is M'baku the King? And Shuri's just going to be the Black Panther? Since they were still calling her Princess. 

[Guest]

The last hour-ish was good, but getting to that point was a slog. The bloom is off the Marvel rose for me- the last Dr Strange was (for me) unwatchable, the latest Thor a snooze, and now this. I think I watched the first BP 15 times and I doubt I watch this one again at all. 

[Raja]

4 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Did Namor say he was mutant, is this our second confirmed mutant?

So is M'baku the King? And Shuri's just going to be the Black Panther? Since they were still calling her Princess. 

Yes after explaining his mother was pregnant when she took the sea herb he said be was born a mutant. Whereas Ms Marvel was told a mutation was detected in her DNA.

M'baku stepped off of the ship and challenged for the throne. I assume no other tribal head or royalty took him on.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Raja

[Bruinsfan]

On 11/11/2022 at 7:17 PM, Dani said:

I may be in the minority but I wasn’t impressed with her acting in the more dramatic anger scenes. I’m sure a lot of that was because she was surrounded by acting powerhouses. She’s a strong actor but Ramonda’s reaction to everything and Okoye’s reaction to losing Shuri and her position were more powerful.

Agreed. I do think Letitia has improved from the first movie, and to her credit she had a much heavier lift here than she or anyone else could have expected when the movie was first being conceptualized. But she's still the weakest actor of the main cast by far in my opinion, and it's not a great thing when your lead is being outperformed by everyone she shares a scene with, possibly including the actress playing her Talokan handmaiden.

Angela Bassett, Lupita N'yongo, and Tenoch Huerta were all electrifying. Danai Gurira and Winston Duke surprisingly were not, shortfallings I blame on the script as both have proven themselves in all their prior performances. And I really liked Dominique Thorne despite caring not one whit for Riri Williams in the comics. This movie dispelled my apathy about her upcoming Disney+ series, now I'm looking forward to it.

[phalange]

This was a nice tribute to Chadwick Boseman and T'Challa. His funeral and the end with Shuri on the beach remembering him were well done and emotional.

Ramonda's death was a shock and so was little T'Challa in the mid-credits. The young actor playing him is absolutely adorable. It's good that T'Challa and Ramonda both got a chance to meet him.

M'Baku becoming King while Shuri focuses on being the Black Panther makes sense. He was shown to have good leadership skills and Shuri always seemed more focused on improving Wakandan tech than wanting to be in charge. 

Namor was a compelling villain. Even though Shuri spared him and they called off the battle, Namor and his kingdom aren't done with their war against the whole planet. 

[Racj82]

On 11/11/2022 at 2:17 PM, thuganomics85 said:

The only real negative I have might be a major hot take (SPOILER!): I was underwhelmed by the "Killmonger" appearance in Shuri's vision.  I get what they were going for and I'm sure a lot of it was also because Michael B. Jordan wanted to have some part in this film (understandable), but it was the only moment that felt borderline fan service and used just to surprise the audience.  And while part of it might have been because he was really playing a variation of Shuri's emotions (kind of), I thought Michael was overacting in it and it didn't mesh with almost everyone else's performances here.  Just didn't fully work for me.

Killmonger was always going to be in this movie in some form. All the way back to initials drafts of the script.

Killmonger made perfect sense. He was the dead relative she WANTED  in that moment. T Challa, Ramona and The King would have pushed her to realization she had much earlier.

Kilmonger/Namor/Suri all made rash decisions partially based on anger and vengeance. Not logic or reasoning. Killmonger pushed her to do what she already wanted.

It made perfect sense thematically.

[Racj82]

5 minutes ago, phalange said:

M'Baku becoming King while Shuri focuses on being the Black Panther makes sense. He was shown to have good leadership skills and Shuri always seemed more focused on improving Wakandan tech than wanting to be in charge. 

This is why i never wanted her as Black Panther. I'm happy with what they did here. But, Nakia would never want that mantle. Okoye wants to serve the king not be one and Suri is more about tech than being a leader. None of them made sense as the new Black Panther. I don't even think M Baku will be King or king for that long. We will get out T Challa replacement but it will be an unknown character so far. I don't think they will be female either. The women of Wakanda are so damn strong on their own metits.

7 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I liked this, it wasn't the best MCU movie, but

Just as a side note (this isn't an attack on you) but I don't know why it's such a thing to lead with that. It wasn't the best movie ever! It has its flaws! I mean, yes. I don't think any of those things need to be said. I would never assume a new movie is the best of anything or that anything was flawless.

I feel that this was genuinely a better movie than the first but the heart and importance of the first one trumps this. I think it was always going to be that way.

[Racj82]

On 11/12/2022 at 12:44 AM, angora said:

Although, side note: Namor said, more than once, that he's called "Nah-MOR." So why did all the Wakandans and Riri say "NAY-mor"?

There is often a difference between how different culture pronounce names and certain words. It's pretty common.

I forgot to add that I didn't cry at all...until Suri did. I almost made it. Shocked I had any tears left after also watching Top Gun Maverick the same day.

[Guest]

Now that I’ve slept on it, while I still think the movie overall was weak, there was a lot of good. I think the movie could have used a better edit to move the action up a little instead of so much backstory, but some especially big highlight’s for me:

1) The actress playing Okoye’s acting is amazing. She can do more with a single tear running down her face than many others can do with a monologue.

2) The introduction of T’Challah’s son was so well done.

3) T’Challah’s funeral was very touching.

[Enigma X]

I liked Wakanda Forever better than Black Panther. What I loved about Black Panther was the introduction to Wakanda, Chadwick Boseman/T'Challah (perfect embodiment), and the Dora Milaje. But you give me emotional beats over action any day. This is why I love the MCU because when they get the emotional moments right, they get it right. They got it right. The things I like (not an inclusive list):

The tributes to Chadwick and T'Challah

Ramonda

Okoye/Danai's performance when she was stripped of her duties

Namora

Prince T'Challah/Toussaint

Riri Williams

M'baku

Some parts did not grab me the way I wanted them to. Many of those parts dealt with the Taloconil (sp) and the Midnight Angels. I like both, but something did not connect with me. Also, I get why they made Shuri the Black Panther, but I would have been happier if they could have somehow made Ramonda or Nakia the Black Panther. My very unpopular opinion is that I could have done without Kilmonger.

So, is Namor really half-human here? It seems that both parents were human (though we learned nothing of his father), but he is the first to be born Taloconil.

For me, this movie takes my #10 overall MCU movie (counting all of Holland's Spiderman movies).

[Shannon L.]

Wow, what beautiful movie (emotionally and visually). It was fun and moving. I missed Chadwick dearly, but this was a really nice tribute to him. After the last 2 disappointing movies, I feel like the Marvel I fell in love with is back on track.  I liked it a little better than the first one.

ETA: I wish they could have found a way to give Sebastian Stan a cameo because of how important Wakanda was to him and how they had named him the White Wolf, but my husband pointed out that with Bucky being a fighter, a cameo wouldn't have been enough because the only way it would have made sense for him to be there was to help them with their fight and that would have been too much.  I understand the reasoning, but I still wish they could have worked something out. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Shannon L.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Enigma X said:

So, is Namor really half-human here? It seems that both parents were human (though we learned nothing of his father), but he is the first to be born Taloconil.

If I follow Marvel fan and corporate terms correctly the first Tacolans were mutates like Deadpool or Spider-Man and turned into a separate species . But Wade and Peter Parker don't have mates of a similar nature to reproduce so there is a chance if they reproduce you would have mutants caused by the hybrid. . So because of his then human mother's invitro ingestion of the vibranium seas urchin, or what ever it was there was a mutation to Namor and he wasn't born into that new species like presumably all the others of their nation.

1 hour ago, Shannon L. said:

ETA: I wish they could have found a way to give Sebastian Stan a cameo because of how important Wakanda was to him and how they had named him the White Wolf, but my husband pointed out that with Bucky being a fighter, a cameo wouldn't have been enough because the only way it would have made sense for him to be there was to help them with their fight and that would have been too much.  I understand the reasoning, but I still wish they could have worked something out. 

The Falcon and The Winter Soldier, while their White Wolf was drafted to fight Thanos there is some stuff in the miniseries to consider, along with time pressure and the Wakandans keeping the Tacolan's secret

Edited November 13, 2022 by Raja

[jah1986]

I really liked this movie, probably more than Black Panther. Of course the original had a lot more cultural significance. Some have said that the movie was too long, it was long but didn’t feel long.  I think people who prefer more action may have like this film less than people who are fine with less action (like me). 
 All the actors did a great job, but Letitia felt like the weakest link, which is sad considering her character’s importance. She just doesn’t have the same presence as the others.  For example 

Spoiler

Her cries watching her mother die didn’t affect me the way Okoye’s tears, begging the queen to wake up, did.

I’m looking forward to seeing this again when it premieres on Disney+.

I liked the introduction to Riri, and the laughter she brought.  And loved the mid credits scene, very well done. 

[Lantern7]

Beautiful movie. I'm curious what the general idea of the sequel was before Chadwick passed away. The degree of difficulty of reaching the first movie was damn high, but I say it's been cleared.

 I'm not sure what else to add. I don't think it was "critic-proof," but most of the movie worked. I have to ask . . .  are there any other fans of Priest's run on the book that miss Everett K. Ross: King Of The Useless White Boys? I mean, Martin Freeman is nice and all, and I love how he is Shuri's "favorite colonizer" .  . .  but this is basically Martin Freeman with an American accent.

Just to confirm . . . was that Trevor Noah voicing Shuri's AI? It sure sounded like him.

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Just to confirm . . . was that Trevor Noah voicing Shuri's AI? It sure sounded like him.

It was. 

[Raja]

50 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Beautiful movie. I'm curious what the general idea of the sequel was before Chadwick passed away. The degree of difficulty of reaching the first movie was damn high, but I say it's been cleared.

 I'm not sure what else to add. I don't think it was "critic-proof," but most of the movie worked. I have to ask . . .  are there any other fans of Priest's run on the book that miss Everett K. Ross: King Of The Useless White Boys? I mean, Martin Freeman is nice and all, and I love how he is Shuri's "favorite colonizer" .  . .  but this is basically Martin Freeman with an American accent.

Just to confirm . . . was that Trevor Noah voicing Shuri's AI? It sure sounded like him.

My speculation is instead of the focus on Shuri's grief the boss of the mercenaries which set the conflict in motion would have been the base. But that is probably prejudiced by months of hearing Doctor Doom theories and hopes that he is added to the MCU instead of waiting for a third Fantastic Four treatment 

[Spartan Girl]

Am I the only one pissed off about Ramonda? I suppose I’m a little oversensitive about the MCU killing off a lot of female characters, but they finally let Angela Bassett shine only to do that? It just doesn’t seem fair.

[AimingforYoko]

9 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I'm curious what the general idea of the sequel was before Chadwick passed away.

Per Ryan Coogler, it was going to be T'Challa dealing with the five years he lost due to the blip. 

[Spartan Girl]

22 hours ago, Enigma X said:

My very unpopular opinion is that I could have done without Kilmonger.

Save me a seat at your table. Full disclosure: I got spoiled about that cameo and I was enraged. I was like, “WTAF NO NO NO, he DOES NOT get to be in the ancestral plane after what he did!!!!!” When I watched the scene with the actual context, I understood better, that it was Shuri’s desire for revenge that influenced her vision, etc, but seriously, screw him.

[tv echo]

‘Black Panther: Wakanda Forever’ Commands Huge $180M U.S. Opening, $330M Globally
BY PAMELA MCCLINTOCK     NOVEMBER 13, 2022
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/black-panther-wakanda-forever-box-office-sequel-1235260713/ 

Quote

The superhero sequel opened to a huge $180 million at the domestic box office to hunt down the biggest November opening of all time and the second-biggest launch of 2022 so far behind fellow Marvel Studios’ pic Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness ($187.4 million). And it easily wrested the weekend crown from DC superhero pic Black Adam, now in its fourth weekend.
*  *  *
While Wakanda Forever didn’t match the $202 million domestic debut of Coogler’s Black Panther in 2018, it is still doing formidable business and ranks No. 13 on the all-time list of domestic launches (releases from Disney and Marvel now account for all but one of the 13), according to Comscore. The sequel’s arrival on the marquee couldn’t have been more welcome after a tough fall for theater owners.
*  *  *
Coogler’s film received an A CinemaScore from audiences and strong exits on PostTrak. One difference: the first Black Panther earned a coveted A+. It played to an ethnically diverse audience, led by Black moviegoers (34 percent) and followed by Caucasians (31 percent), Latinos (21 percent) and Asian/Other (14 percent), according to PostTrak. It also played more evenly gender-wise than most superhero films, with females making up 45 percent of the audience.
*  *  *
Wakanda Forever opened less than 11 percent behind the 2018 film.

“It’s an outstanding result. The first film represented such a major cultural milestone that its performance would have been challenging to follow even under normal circumstances,” says box office analyst Shawn Robbins. “This performance from a sequel almost five years later speaks to the trust audiences have in Ryan Coogler, Marvel and the entire creative team to continue the story in a respectful way after Chadwick Boseman’s tragic passing. It’s an opportunity for everyone to say goodbye to him together as the franchise moves forward with his legacy at the heart of it.”

‘Black Panther: Wakanda Forever’ Scores Year’s 2nd Best Opening With $180 Million
By Sam Mendelsohn    November 13, 2022 
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/article/ed3883009028/?ref_=bo_at_a 

Quote

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever has finally ended the box office blues. It will be a close call, but based on the estimates, the year’s biggest opener remains Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness with its $187 million start. Nonetheless, Wakanda Forever’s $180 million opening is a huge one, being the biggest ever for the month of November (beating the $158 million of The Hunger Games: Catching Fire), the second biggest of the year, and the 13th biggest of all time (though it could go up or down a few slots once the actuals come out). It led an overall weekend box office of $208 million, which is the fourth biggest of the year and the biggest by a long shot of the past four months, with no other weekend since July 8-10 even going above $133 million.

This isn’t the $202 million opening that we saw from Black Panther in February 2018, nor should we expect the amazing legs that were able to get that film to an astonishing $700 million. With that said, expect it to perform strong throughout the holiday season, likely repeating the five-weekend number-one streak that the first film had, and it shouldn’t have any trouble becoming the second highest grossing film of the year so far, beating the $411 million cume of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. The audience response is strong, with the A CinemaScore falling below the first film’s A+ but bouncing back from the B+’s earned by Doctor Strange 2 and Thor: Love and Thunder, which ranked among the worst for the MCU. The reviews are also an improvement over the recent franchise installments, with the aforementioned films coming in at 74% and 64% respectively on Rotten Tomatoes, both at the lower end for Marvel films, while Wakanda Forever’s 84% is closer to franchise norms, though not meeting the high bar set by the first Black Panther’s 96%.

ETA: Wakanda Forever is currently certified "Fresh" at Rotten Tomatoes with critics score of 84% and audience score of 95%:
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/black_panther_wakanda_forever 

Edited November 14, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

'Black Panther: Wakanda Forever's Producer Nate Moore on Deleted Scenes, Extended Cuts, and 'Black Panther 3’
BY TAMERA JONES    PUBLISHED 2 DAYS AGO
https://collider.com/black-panther-wakanda-forever-producer-nate-moore-interview/ 

Quote

I heard rumors that originally at the end of the credits of Wakanda Forever you were going to have a final credit scene. Was that ever the case?
MOORE: No, actually. I've heard those rumors, too. No, I think the subject matter of the film was such that it didn't feel appropriate to have, then, a stinger. Much like Endgame felt like an emotional experience that you also didn't need a stinger at the end of. This felt like we just wanted to tell the story as it was conceived without an added bonus. So, unfortunately there isn't an end credits.
*  *  *
What were some of the alternate titles that this film almost was called?
MOORE: Yeah, that's a good question. There was literally a list of hundreds.

That's what Black Panther 3 is for.
MOORE: That's right. You're like, “Kingdom of the Deep?” You're like, “Does it have to be about Namor?” Then we realized that Wakanda Forever felt right, because it's a story about triumph through adversity. It's a story about legacy, it's a story about persistence, and Wakanda Forever says all those things. Initially, I will say this, at one point it was like, "Oh, that feels like the title of the third movie. Where do you go from Wakanda Forever? That feels like it's the end." But no, actually it felt really appropriate thematically to the story we were trying to tell.

The mid-credit scene is phenomenal.
MOORE: Yep.

How early on did you know that was going to be the scene?
MOORE: Pretty early on. That was always the end of the movie pretty, much since Chad's passing. I think the first draft we got had that in there, and the notion of the character introduced in that scene actually predated Chad's passing, to be quite honest. We always like the idea that…
*  *  *
Do you envision a Black Panther 3 in the next three, four years, or do you think this is going to be something where Wakanda and the characters are just embedded into the rest of the MCU?
MOORE: That's a great question. To be honest, this is not me trying to not answer the question. We really want to see how audiences receive the film, and I think Ryan's really interested to see how the film plays before we decide. There are certainly ideas we've floated around of what a third film could be if we get to make it. But until the movie comes out, we're a bit superstitious in that way. We don't want to count our chickens, because you never know what's going to happen.
*  *  *
This movie's going to be massive because it's so good and also people are going to love it. Did you end up with a lot of deleted scenes on this movie?
MOORE: We ended up with some deleted scenes, yes.

When you say "some", I'm curious what that actually means.
MOORE: More than two, less than 10? No, there's some great stuff. A lot of characters have scenes that are great scenes that the movie just couldn't bear. It's already a relatively long movie, and we wanted to make sure the movie felt as focused as it could, while doing as much as it's doing. But there are some deleted scenes that are really cool.
*  *  *
What is the last thing you cut out before picture locking that, if you could, you would put it back in the movie?
MOORE: There's certainly a scene with Okoye and Ayo after Okoye has been fired that's really interesting. That, again, I think is incredibly watchable. It just slowed the pace down of the movie a little bit. But you get to see, Okoye react to the new General, and you get to see what she was planning to do before the events of Namor, and the Talocan coming to Wakanda happen. It's actually pretty cool.

Edited November 14, 2022 by tv echo

[bluvelvet]

Just saw it, I enjoyed it.  Felt it was more plot driven and less action but it worked.  Angela's speech at the beginning said so much and it lined up nicely with Namor's comment to Namora that the world would come for Wakanda.

I was also really happy they didn't kill Namor - I liked him, also he was low key sexy ..

Wakanda has a great resource, no way the world will leave them alone.

Edited November 16, 2022 by bluvelvet

[Racj82]

On 11/14/2022 at 8:08 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Am I the only one pissed off about Ramonda? I suppose I’m a little oversensitive about the MCU killing off a lot of female characters, but they finally let Angela Bassett shine only to do that? It just doesn’t seem fair.

I figured you would have a problem with it (no shade). But, the reality is that a lot of the mcu have dead parents of both genders. We literally start T Challa's journey with his father being murdered right in front of him. We knew him for five minutes and he has only existed to fuel his sons arcs. Ramonda got much more.

[tv echo]

[Gharlane]

Superheroes Every Day