S11.E08: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Leather Pants

[TheCouchPotato]

That Hermès bag is ugly as f**k. Save $94,490 and take a Little People building and add a leather strap. 
I can’t with Sutton. Where is that etiquette that she boasts about in her opening? 

Edited July 8, 2021 by TheCouchPotato

[Yours Truly]

Sutton can't be a big girl have a thick skin, play nice by allowing falsehoods or control her fragile emotions. 

What a bitch. 

People who struggle emotionally should conjur up what it is they are lacking in order to not be a burden to others. Makes sense.

Sigh...

[eleanorofaquitaine]

1 minute ago, Yours Truly said:

Yeah, I disagree. 

We can agree to disagree, but I would honestly like to know what you think Crystal should have done?  Seriously. She's not going to apologize for her feelings, nor should she. She was willing to say "I'm sorry your upset," which was realistically the only thing she could do. But is it your expectation that Crystal being "nice" is agreeing to Sutton's version of event?

Because beyond that, Crystal was quite literally doing nothing antagonistic towards Sutton up until the point that Sutton - once again - demanded an apology and demanded that Crystal deny that she felt the way she felt. 

[TV Diva Queen]

Crystal is a stone cold bitch.  She is the girl who wasn't popular when she was younger and now she married a Disney dude and has all the money one can ask for and all the fake friends she can lure into her world.  We saw her treat her cousins like shit - her mommy skills don't appear to be the best.  She even said in a talking head that she can't stand losing....she's not going to back down or apologize to Sutton because in her entitled little mind, apologizing means you lost.  I'm not even saying that she NEEDS to apologize, but crystal can clearly see that Sutton is a bit unhinged....Say you're sorry and make another human feel better.  As Sutton said "I just need someone to throw me a bone"  Hating takes so much effort, being kind is easy.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Just now, TV Diva Queen said:

Crystal is a stone cold bitch.  She is the girl who wasn't popular when she was younger and now she married a Disney dude and has all the money one can ask for and all the fake friends she can lure into her world.  We saw her treat her cousins like shit - her mommy skills don't appear to be the best.  She even said in a talking head that she can't stand losing....she's not going to back down or apologize to Sutton because in her entitled little mind, apologizing means you lost.  I'm not even saying that she NEEDS to apologize, but crystal can clearly see that Sutton is a bit unhinged....Say you're sorry and make another human feel better.  As Sutton said "I just need someone to throw me a bone"  Hating takes so much effort, being kind is easy.

What exactly do you think Crystal should say "sorry" for? 

[Yours Truly]

28 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

But the cast thought she was inferring something sexually perverse.  And that's what Sutton is reacting to.  The juxtaposition of those words suggest something worse than walking in on someone.

 

BINGO!!

[UsernameFatigue]

11 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

She's tried to assert herself a number of times on this topic and yet it keeps popping up in little quips (usually by a Richards.. hhmmmmmm). She's usually the butt of it and as exhausting as it is to Crystal I'm sure it's doubling exhausting to Sutton because it all ended with Sutton either being the butt of a joke (Tomasina) or someone with predatory tendencies. At best she may here it come up from time to time as "harmless" jokes. You know the one's that sooooo lighthearted that she won't be allowed to be upset even though she will be and then BAM! Another example of how Sutton is weird and overreacts. I just don't understand why it's so wrong for people to just be mindful. To put the onus on the party that is the least capable of what is being asked of them instead of calling on those that are obviously more equipped is what's backwards to me in all of this.   To me, Sutton can't handle certain things well so if I were in that group I'd make it a point to shift topics away from what may set her off. Not begrudgingly or resentful, just matter of factly. It truly doesn't boil my blood to be helpful in that way. Makes me so sad to see Sutton stumble through all that nonsense. Whether she "brings it upon herself" or not. I think it's pretty evident that she's a person who struggles and that's enough for me to keep my anger in check and lead with compassion instead. 

I gave Kathy Hilton a pass until this episode. Not sure if she is being a shit stirrer to keep her job, or because she really just thinks it is fun. Not only did she say "Tomasina", but when she didn't get the reaction she wanted she followed it with "Tommy". Sutton handled it quite well by saying "Are we going to lead with that? That's fun" or something similar. When she wanted to leave the others should have let her, but of course if that happened we would not have this year's puppy gate. 

I have two friends with anxiety disorder, so I applaud Sutton for being part of the show, as from what my friends have told me the disorder is a constant struggle. As I said before, I could be friends with Sutton in a heart beat. 

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Sutton was already in the middle of her episode so I don't fault her for being emotional by the time Crystal joined the group. Sutton was addressing something she was still struggling with cause the other woman just HAD TO know what was the problem even though Sutton tried multiple times to change the subject with Kyle and the woman once they approached. I think it was mishandled and I still think Sutton has good reason to be sensitive about it especially if she's not allowed to shut down the conversation. More than once Sutton tried to just leave it alone but the other women weren't having it. I think it's okay for her to still feel upset about what happened and I also think it's ok for her to not be 100% smiles and I don't think she inserted a negative vibe with her less than joyful expression because no one even noticed it besides Kyle.  So there's also that. 

7 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Oh yeah, I totally get that by the time Crystal walked up any control Sutton had been hanging onto was already pretty much gone. I just mean that Crystal's own experience was that she she had been left at the table while everybody went over to Sutton--which she herself didn't do, hopefully knowing that wherever Sutton went she does not want Crystal with her because when has she ever?

So when she walks over she walks into a situation about herself and how much Sutton hates her.

[TV Diva Queen]

4 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

What exactly do you think Crystal should say "sorry" for? 

just to make sutton feel better.  its not hard

[biakbiak]

Just now, TV Diva Queen said:

just to make sutton feel better.  its not hard

Crystal shouldn’t have to deny her feelings, the only thing she has refused to do, to make Sutton feel better when Sutton is the one who keeps going after her.

[Yours Truly]

21 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Just saying when other people's perceptions all run together, it's likely the way Crystal originally described what happened to them.

If someone told me they got walked in on accidentally while naked and felt violated, I would think that they were embarrassed.

If someone said the person who walked in on them naked was creepy, I would think it's no accident that she walked in on them naked or they lingered way too long in a creepy way.

As you noted, she already clarified it and Sutton should move on.  Sutton is an irritant and she's clearly got issues.  But I still don't like Crystal either and her "you're just jealous" bullshit.

Those flashbacks are damaging as hell. It clearly shows Crystal describing the incident in the most salacious and intrusive way. She most definitely described it in a way to suggest something sinister on Suttons part. That's why I just can't get on board with the whole poor Crystal narrative. It would still be upsetting to Sutton had she not tried to make it into a campaign to smear Sutton. When they did all the flashbacks (I think it was 3 separate times Crystal was shown telling the story) it honestly felt like a smear campaign. That's how overexaggerated her versions were.

Actually, One version even had her reenact what Sutton said AS Mr. Poppins.  When they showed that scene again (after Sutton made the Mr. Poppins comment) I was like holy shit Crystal actually did at one point quote Sutton in a weird twisting mustache kind of voice.. LOLOL!!

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Just now, TV Diva Queen said:

just to make sutton feel better.  its not hard

It is actually hard to say you are sorry when, in fact, you have done nothing wrong and when the person screaming at you, demanding an apology, wants you to deny that you felt the way you felt.

Crystal WAS willing to say she was sorry that Sutton was feeling bad. That wasn't what Sutton wanted. Sutton wants Crystal to deny that she felt violated. Why would Crystal do that? 

I get that Sutton is triggered by the idea that she, Sutton, associates the word "violated" with sexual assault.  At this point, Crystal has said to all of the other women, on camera, that she meant she felt that her privacy was violated - which is a perfectly acceptable definition of violation. She has said on camera that she didn't mean in any kind of sexually abusive way.  That's the best she can do. Sutton is either going to have to live with it or not. But she can't keep flying off the handle every time she doesn't get what she wants from Crystal and expect that she is somehow not going to look a little unhinged. 

[UsernameFatigue]

7 minutes ago, TheCouchPotato said:

That Hermès bag is ugly as f**k. Save $94,490 and take a Little People building and add a leather strap. 

When it was first shown last episode, I posted that I thought it was a lunch sack belonging to one of Crystal's kids. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

1 minute ago, Yours Truly said:

Those flashbacks are damaging as hell. It clearly shows Crystal describing the incident in the most salacious and intrusive way. She most definitely described it in a way to suggest something sinister on Suttons part. That's why I just can't get on board with the whole poor Crystal narrative. It would still be upsetting to Sutton had she not tried to make it into a campaign to smear Sutton. When they did all the flashbacks (I think it was 3 separate times Crystal was shown telling the story) it honestly felt like a smear campaign. That's how overexaggerated her versions were.

I don't see anyone advancing a "poor Crystal" narrative.  I'm not, because I think Crystal has shown she's pretty good at taking care of herself. What I see people doing is denying that there is a "poor, fragile Sutton" narrative because she can't control her emotions and keeps attacking Crystal. 

[Boo Boo]

2 hours ago, gingerella said:

Hmmm, let's see...Crystal, despite being saddled with a classic stripper name, has a husband who seems to love and adore her; a home that far exceeds anything that Sutton could afford; has a plethora of materials goods far exceeding Sutton's self-perceived war chest of couture. These are the things that matter to someone like Sutton so, yanno...seems fairly obvious to this viewer.

As for the above bolded part in the first quote, that is a fact, not something some here are perceiving. To not see it is one of the root issues of unconscious bias, for which I shall include a definition, which to me, seems to be exactly what is going on vis a vis Crystal's perceived 'over-reacting' vs. Sutton's white fragility melt-down and subsequent nasty fighting back about being a victim in this situation:

So let's put the situation thusly:

Crystal (a person of color) is defined as a hysterical over-reactor to being walked in on naked on a reality TV show, garnering snarky, negative comments from the perpetrator. Meanwhile, Sutton (a white woman) who walked in on her, claims to be a victim because Crystal is upset at her actions, and is viewed as a victim who has been wronged because she doesn't like Crystal's feelings about the situation, and the women rally around who? The white woman who is crying victim - while they all coo over her, leaving Crystal to bear the mantle of 'over reactor'. I don't see anything confusing about this situation.

Garcelle (a person of color) also challenged Crystal (a person of color) on how she described the incident with Sutton (a white woman).  

Edited July 8, 2021 by Boo Boo

[Ms Blue Jay]

10 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

just to make sutton feel better.  its not hard

Did Sutton apologize to Crystal to make her feel better?

19 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I really don't think there's anything Crystal could have said that would have comforted Sutton except to submit to her completely and admit she's the villain for acting as if Sutton could ever do anything bad. She treats her like an adult having a tantrum instead of a delicate child. Even when Sutton's acting like a literal child yelling about Crystal's ugly pants--you know, like a mean girl would do. 

yes, you nailed it.

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I have two friends with anxiety disorder, so I applaud Sutton for being part of the show, as from what my friends have told me the disorder is a constant struggle. As I said before, I could be friends with Sutton in a heart beat. 

Does she have an anxiety disorder? It just seems like speculation about Sutton's behavior always makes her innocent and unaccountable for what she does (she has an anxiety disorder, she doesn't have the social skills to navigate lunch with multiple people) while speculation about Crystal makes her more guilty--she's getting long-planned revenge for being unpopular in high school, she enjoys seeing Sutton cry and knows exactly how to make her do it etc. (And her cousins not being on camera means she treats them like servants.)

 

1 minute ago, Yours Truly said:

Those flashbacks are damaging as hell. It clearly shows Crystal describing the incident in the most salacious and intrusive way. She most definitely described it in a way to suggest something sinister on Suttons part. That's why I just can't get on board with the whole poor Crystal narrative. It would still be upsetting to Sutton had she not tried to make it into a campaign to smear Sutton. When they did all the flashbacks (I think it was 3 separate times Crystal was shown telling the story) it honestly felt like a smear campaign. That's how overexaggerated her versions were.

 

Yes, she did describe it in a sinister way. She says (and maybe she's telling the truth) that that's how it felt to her at the time. But time has past, and she now has said that was not how it happened. So that's been made right. She can't go back and change it, but she can say Sutton is innocent now. Crystal isn't demanding more sympathy for Sutton having walked in on her, she's just refusing to apologize for feeling violated.

And ironically, in this scene Sutton actually suggested that Crystal wasn't exaggerating everything the way she claims she did, because she accused her of being up to something nasty in her room, which is exactly what hurt Crystal earlier. Before Sutton claimed that her comment about "whatever is going on in here" didn't suggest that at all and Crystal was weird to think so. Now she's again saying that Crystal must have been up to something gross if she refuses to apologize for feeling her privacy was violated.

 

3 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Garcelle (a person of color) also challenged Crystal (a person of color) on how she described the incident with Sutton (a white woman).  

Yes, Garcelle, too, sees Sutton as well-meaning and harmless, especially compared to Crystal. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

18 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I get the impression Crystal is enjoying driving Sutton mental.

Sutton is driving herself there.  Crystal is just waving at the car.

[TheCouchPotato]

10 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

When it was first shown last episode, I posted that I thought it was a lunch sack belonging to one of Crystal's kids. 

Yes! I thought it was one her kid’s toys. 

[chlban]

24 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I also loved Harry in Mad Men. What I like most about him though is that he doesn't take himself too seriously, or actually seriously at all. The apron he was wearing was a hoot. 

Ah yes, Mad Men, one of my all time favorite shows, and I also loved LA Law. And yes, I think you nailed it. He just seems like a good guy.

Just now, chlban said:

Ah yes, Mad Men, one of my all time favorite shows, and I also loved LA Law. And yes, I think you nailed it. He just seems like a good guy. Too bad he is married to such a witch.

 

[Yours Truly]

14 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

We can agree to disagree, but I would honestly like to know what you think Crystal should have done?  Seriously. She's not going to apologize for her feelings, nor should she. She was willing to say "I'm sorry your upset," which was realistically the only thing she could do. But is it your expectation that Crystal being "nice" is agreeing to Sutton's version of event?

Because beyond that, Crystal was quite literally doing nothing antagonistic towards Sutton up until the point that Sutton - once again - demanded an apology and demanded that Crystal deny that she felt the way she felt. 

I'm unhappy with Crystal because her original intent was ugly.

She created a completely ridiculous account of what happened simply to try and make Sutton look bad.

Now it's turned into this. I do think Crystal bears responsibility for it getting to this level but she's too busy not liking Sutton to maybe help smooth over the monster it's become. 

Crystal got what she wanted. She succeeded in pushing Sutton over her emotional threshold and is annoyed that she's gonna feel the brunt of some of that. This is what I mean by, if you don't want to be deal or be sensitive to someone's emotional fragility then don't contribute to the chaos that will bring on those episodes.

Do I think people should be held hostage and burdened by the challenges of others? No. But Crystal dove right into those crazy waters AFTER saying she didn't feel comfortable with Suttons unpredictability and yet the next thing we see is her jumping in to Co-Star with Sutton in some exaggerated version of events. 

Who does that?

If it were me and I truly thought Sutton wasn't the most emotionally stable chick out there I wouldn't have made it a point to sensationalize an awkward incident like that. Nah, Crystal did it to be mean. She didn't have to be mean but she was. Sure maybe she was that upset about the walk in. I do believe Crystal honestly felt a certain kinda way but Crystals way of handling that and handling her feelings of anger was to contrive this whole nothing burger of an incident to get back at Sutton.

At this point, everything that transpires out of those initial events is just unfortunate, unnecessary and ridiculous. Right and wrong are now muddled between how these residual incidents occur and who handles what in what way.

Suttons behavior comes from a different place than Crystals behavior and if I had to choose I'd be more forgiving of where Suttons is coming from because it isn't from a place of maliciousness or intent to cause harm but from anxiety and insecurity and self doubt. Which have manifested through the exaggeration of events.  To put it simply, Crystals comes from an ugly place and I just don't like it. 

[Cosmocrush]

6 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Heck, I even liked her standing up for herself last night when she called out Crystal's ugly leather pants because, objectively, those things were ugly.

I guess but seriously, have you ever seen grown women (mostly middle aged) act like that at a dinner party (or any party?)   Believe me there are women in my social circle that don't have the best fashion taste but no one has ever called it out like that.   I found it especially ridiculous because Sutton's whole thing is good  exquisite manners. 

[Yours Truly]

30 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Crystal is a stone cold bitch.  She is the girl who wasn't popular when she was younger and now she married a Disney dude and has all the money one can ask for and all the fake friends she can lure into her world.  We saw her treat her cousins like shit - her mommy skills don't appear to be the best.  She even said in a talking head that she can't stand losing....she's not going to back down or apologize to Sutton because in her entitled little mind, apologizing means you lost.  I'm not even saying that she NEEDS to apologize, but crystal can clearly see that Sutton is a bit unhinged....Say you're sorry and make another human feel better.  As Sutton said "I just need someone to throw me a bone"  Hating takes so much effort, being kind is easy.

What a concept right?

[Boo Boo]

3 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

I guess but seriously, have you ever seen grown women (mostly middle aged) act like that at a dinner party (or any party?)   Believe me there are women in my social circle that don't have the best fashion taste but no one has ever called it out like that.   I found it especially ridiculous because Sutton's whole thing is good  exquisite manners. 

Have you ever seen a grown woman call another grown woman jealous of her?

I haven't!

The whole thing was straight out of high school!  

Edited July 8, 2021 by Boo Boo

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, chlban said:

I am not saying it's OK for Sutton to be unhinged, I just also think that Crystal is a total bitch and her jealousy comment cemented that for me. She thinks she is special. Why would Sutton be jealous of her?  Nonsense. Everything isn't about race. I also think Kyle, Rinna, Dorit and Erika are total bitches. Garcelle is strong as hell, not at all afraid to make her points and stand her ground AND she is basically kind and a real friend, therefore not a bitch. Jury us still out for me on Kathy and Sutton, but I lean bitch on both. Nothing to do with race.

Then why when every time Kathy Hilton greets Sutton as "Thomasina", Sutton finds another reason to fly off the handle at Crystal again?

2 hours ago, gingerella said:

So let's put the situation thusly:

Crystal (a person of color) is defined as a hysterical over-reactor to being walked in on naked on a reality TV show, garnering snarky, negative comments from the perpetrator. Meanwhile, Sutton (a white woman) who walked in on her, claims to be a victim because Crystal is upset at her actions, and is viewed as a victim who has been wronged because she doesn't like Crystal's feelings about the situation, and the women rally around who? The white woman who is crying victim - while they all coo over her, leaving Crystal to bear the mantle of 'over reactor'. I don't see anything confusing about this situation.

Oh my god yes ad nauseum every single episode.  This is why I am so confused by Garcelle treating Sutton with damn kid gloves every single time Sutton flies off the handle again.  

Crystal was walked in on and felt violated.  She expressed it.  Yet how many times has she been called a "bitch" for this?  She's painted as a villain somehow.  For having an experience.  It's such an overreaction.  

We can add in that Sutton demands an APOLOGY from Crystal for feeling a certain way, and women like Kyle and Garcelle flank Sutton and chime in on demanding an apology from Crystal so that Sutton can move on.  WTF?  

The constant catering to Sutton's irrationality is something else.  She's allowed to do anything and say anything no matter how irrational and everyone coos over her and begs her to feel better.  I don't even think people treat their toddlers this way.  

Edited July 8, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Boo Boo]

1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Then why when every time Kathy Hilton greets Sutton as "Thomasina", Sutton finds another reason to fly off the handle at Crystal again?

Probably because Crystal's description of the original event prompted the women to all think that Sutton is a perv.

Once they found out she's not a perv, hilarity ensues!  :)  

 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

2 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I'm unhappy with Crystal because her original intent was ugly.

She created a completely ridiculous account of what happened simply to try and make Sutton look bad.

Now it's turned into this. I do think Crystal bears responsibility for it getting to this level but she's too busy not liking Sutton to maybe help smooth over the monster it's become. 

Crystal got what she wanted. She succeeded in pushing Sutton over her emotional threshold and is annoyed that she's gonna feel the brunt of some of that. This is what I mean by, if you don't want to be deal or be sensitive to someone's emotional fragility then don't contribute to the chaos that will bring on those episodes.

Do I think people should be held hostage and burdened by the challenges of others? No. But Crystal dove right into those crazy waters AFTER saying she didn't feel comfortable with Suttons unpredictability and yet the next thing we see is her jumping in to Co-Star with Sutton in some exaggerated version of events. 

Who does that?

If it were me and I truly thought Sutton wasn't the most emotionally stable chick out there I wouldn't have made it a point to sensationalize an awkward incident like that. Nah, Crystal did it to be mean. She didn't have to be mean but she was. Sure maybe she was that upset about the walk in. I do believe Crystal honestly felt a certain kinda way but Crystals way of handling that and handling her feelings of anger was to contrive this whole nothing burger of an incident to get back at Sutton.

At this point, everything that transpires out of those initial events is just unfortunate, unnecessary and ridiculous. Right and wrong are now muddled between how these residual incidents occur and who handles what in what way.

Suttons behavior comes from a different place than Crystals behavior and if I had to choose I'd be more forgiving of where Suttons is coming from because it isn't from a place of maliciousness or intent to cause harm but from anxiety and insecurity and self doubt. Which have manifested through the exaggeration of events.  To put it simply, Crystals comes from an ugly place and I just don't like it. 

So what I see is that you've wholly accepted Sutton's view of the incident and... yeah, we're just not going to agree on that. Crystal has owned up to the fact that she talked about the incident when she said she wouldn't and has said she would stop doing so. She has since that time. And since that time, she has made it clear that while she did feel violated, she doesn't think that Sutton had any real ill intent. But that's not good enough for Sutton. 

Sutton was the one who did the wrong thing in the first place, by barging in and making a weird comment.  Sutton has now made it an even bigger thing because she can't just let it be. She is now the one who is continuing to drag this story line out because she can't let it go. So yes, we'll just have to agree to disagree about why they are at this place. Crystal may have made some missteps - but Sutton has made huge leaps to get them to this.

1 minute ago, Cosmocrush said:

I guess but seriously, have you ever seen grown women (mostly middle aged) act like that at a dinner party (or any party?)   Believe me there are women in my social circle that don't have the best fashion taste but no one has ever called it out like that.   I found it especially ridiculous because Sutton's whole thing is good  exquisite manners. 

Well, no. I'm just saying that I would much prefer openly aggressive Sutton to passive-aggressive, fragile-tears, glass-menagerie Sutton. But yes, I would be embarrassed to be around someone like that if she had that kind of a meltdown in public.  

[Feech]

Harry does admit he has no standing to object to his daughter’s choice of partner.

After all he did marry Lisa Rinna.

What could be worse than that!

[dmeets]

I don't recall Sutton having any sympathy for Teddi last year after insulting her and saying "ugh, pregnant women." Why does she expect Crystal, whom she's done NOTHING but antagonize, to kowtow to her?

For all her complaints about Crystal being a "mean girl" I think Sutton's got a very nasty side to her, she only dishes it out on the person she deems the weak link (in this case, the newbie who's not the sister of the queen bee). I can't wait until she tries to pull it on anyone else.

That or she's just faking all the drama since last year she didn't do enough to get a diamond.

Edited July 8, 2021 by dmeets

[WhatAmIWatching]

50 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

She's tried to assert herself a number of times on this topic and yet it keeps popping up in little quips (usually by a Richards.. hhmmmmmm). She's usually the butt of it and as exhausting as it is to Crystal I'm sure it's doubling exhausting to Sutton because it all ended with Sutton either being the butt of a joke (Tomasina) or someone with predatory tendencies. At best she may here it come up from time to time as "harmless" jokes. You know the one's that sooooo lighthearted that she won't be allowed to be upset even though she will be and then BAM! Another example of how Sutton is weird and overreacts. I just don't understand why it's so wrong for people to just be mindful. To put the onus on the party that is the least capable of what is being asked of them instead of calling on those that are obviously more equipped is what's backwards to me in all of this.   To me, Sutton can't handle certain things well so if I were in that group I'd make it a point to shift topics away from what may set her off. Not begrudgingly or resentful, just matter of factly. It truly doesn't boil my blood to be helpful in that way. Makes me so sad to see Sutton stumble through all that nonsense. Whether she "brings it upon herself" or not. I think it's pretty evident that she's a person who struggles and that's enough for me to keep my anger in check and lead with compassion instead. 

But why should they treat Sutton as if she were a child instead of an adult? How far does that go? What subjects or discussions are then off-limits? That's far too much walking on eggshells to expect of anyone. Why is it Crystal's responsibility to make Sutton feel better or placate her when she felt some type of way about all of their interactions to date? Why are Crystal's feelings less important than Sutton's?

Crystal didn't mock her, or make faces at her. She was standing there with a sober expression, actively listening to Sutton once again going off on her, and telling her that what she felt was incorrect, but this time with added name-calling, and insinuation. (This is what, the 4th or so time Sutton has gone after Crystal since the first episode? None of their interactions have been positive. I know I would've had a hard time being kind at that point.) She ended up reacting to what Sutton was spewing at her, unfortunately.

Why didn't Sutton, when she first started feeling bad over the gift thing, excuse herself and leave the party? She could've claimed a headache or something. Instead, she escalated her own self and changed what it was about, with her comments to Kyle,while they were still at the table,(I can't stand to be around people I don't like, or something of that nature), and then at the bar.
  She could've told Kyle 'let's do this later, this isn't the time' and refuse to be drawn into it or aside by Kyle and she didn't. Why? She shut down Dorit quite effectively last time with the mouse thing, what was stopping her from doing the same to Kyle and Kathy? She also was rude to Teddi and I don't remember her apologizing.

Kyle and Kathy were the ones poking the bear, and they didn't even get a nip in response, that's really odd to me. And Kathy was smirking...unless that was just the odd lip filler thing.

 

Ah dmeets, great minds with the Teddi thing lol!

Edited July 8, 2021 by WhatAmIWatching

[Feech]

35 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

What exactly do you think Crystal should say "sorry" for? 

Her smirking smug face.

[Yours Truly]

28 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I gave Kathy Hilton a pass until this episode. Not sure if she is being a shit stirrer to keep her job, or because she really just thinks it is fun. Not only did she say "Tomasina", but when she didn't get the reaction she wanted she followed it with "Tommy". Sutton handled it quite well by saying "Are we going to lead with that? That's fun" or something similar. When she wanted to leave the others should have let her, but of course if that happened we would not have this year's puppy gate. 

I have two friends with anxiety disorder, so I applaud Sutton for being part of the show, as from what my friends have told me the disorder is a constant struggle. As I said before, I could be friends with Sutton in a heart beat. 

For the most part I like Kathy and I think she's a fun addition but what I'm seeing in these little spots is that it's a Richards sister, comfort thing. Kim and Kyle had it too. It's cliquey and inside joke type of thing. Gotta get those one liners in. Problem I have is that there's an element of get that laugh at someone else's expense sort of comraderie going on. Hate to keep throwing out the term but it's wink, wink, mean girl antics if you get my drift. Kathy's way more subtle and if it wasn't such a sensitive topic with Sutton that whole Tomasina joke was gold. Look I do the one line jokes too. Even the "rag on you" one's that are pretty harsh but you have to know your audience and you have to make sure it's gonna be taken in stride. Thing about mean girls tho, they aren't too interested in making sure the target will also have a good laugh. They will make the joke with or without the targets approval. That's where it soured for me a bit. It was a good joke but I don't like jokes that make someone feel stupid. I only rag on the people I know would appreciate the joke and delivery just as much as I will

[sistermagpie]

17 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Crystal got what she wanted. She succeeded in pushing Sutton over her emotional threshold and is annoyed that she's gonna feel the brunt of some of that. This is what I mean by, if you don't want to be deal or be sensitive to someone's emotional fragility then don't contribute to the chaos that will bring on those episodes.

Again, who says this kind of meltdown is what Crystal wanted? How could Crystal--or anyone--predict Sutton behaving like this? It seems to me that since Crystal has conceded that Sutton didn't do anything to her intentionally she's been perfectly consistent about not bringing it up again and confirming that she did, in fact, feel that her privacy had been violated in that moment and that's why it was hard for her.

And having seen that flashback multiple times myself, I don't think Crystal's original account was so wildly strange at all. If Sutton can sit next to Crystal at lunch and get upset that she feels waves of dislike coming from Crystal, it's not such a leap for Crystal to feel like Sutton was mocking her with her "whatever's going on in here" comment when she was naked. Sutton doesn't have the monopoly on emotional reactions. We can't say for sure that Sutton's behavior comes from such a very different place than Crystal's or vice versa. Whispering about how much you hate the woman sitting on the other side of the woman you're whispering too would probably set Sutton off too if she was the one being whispered about.

Edited July 8, 2021 by sistermagpie

[WhatAmIWatching]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

Whispering about how much you hate the woman sitting on the other side of the woman you're whispering too would probably set Sutton off too if she was the one being whispered about.

Agreed! She even melted when she thought there might be 'whispering' via texting during the martini prank! She needs to own her own reactions and feelings, and she's not, she's placing them all on Crystal.

[Boo Boo]

13 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Then why when every time Kathy Hilton greets Sutton as "Thomasina", Sutton finds another reason to fly off the handle at Crystal again?

Oh my god yes ad nauseum every single episode.  This is why I am so confused by Garcelle treating Sutton with damn kid gloves every single time Sutton flies off the handle again.  

Crystal was walked in on and felt violated.  She expressed it.  Yet how many times has she been called a "bitch" for this?  She's painted as a villain somehow.  For having an experience.  It's such an overreaction.  

We can add in that Sutton demands an APOLOGY from Crystal for feeling a certain way, and women like Kyle and Garcelle flank Sutton and chime in on demanding an apology from Crystal so that Sutton can move on.  WTF?  

The constant catering to Sutton's irrationality is something else.  She's allowed to do anything and say anything no matter how irrational and everyone coos over her and begs her to feel better.  I don't even think people treat their toddlers this way.  

I'm going to guess that the women are privy to more than we are and they are seeing things we aren't that make them "flank" to Sutton.  

[Yours Truly]

35 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

just to make sutton feel better.  its not hard

You would think it's asking the impossible. What does Crystal get from being the focus of Suttons distress? I mean shit if it were me I'd be all nicey nicey just to get off of Suttons emotional radar. 

[biakbiak]

Just now, Yours Truly said:

You would think it's asking the impossible. What does Crystal get from being the focus of Suttons distress? I mean shit if it were me I'd be all nicey nicey just to get off of Suttons emotional radar. 

Crystal can literally sit silently and still be on Sutton’s emotional radar. 

[WhatAmIWatching]

5 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

I'm going to guess that the women are privy to more than we are and they are seeing things we aren't that make them "flank" to Sutton.  

I'm wondering if it's what Garcelle said on camera, that they're basically worried about cancel culture.

2 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

You would think it's asking the impossible. What does Crystal get from being the focus of Suttons distress? I mean shit if it were me I'd be all nicey nicey just to get off of Suttons emotional radar. 

What is Sutton getting from focusing on Crystal when it's been Kyle or Kathy or even the group that has kept the pot stirred?

[Yours Truly]

36 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

So what I see is that you've wholly accepted Sutton's view of the incident and

I accept what I SAW of the incident and what Crystal conceded to afterwards when the other woman were giving her the side eye about her account. 

36 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Probably because Crystal's description of the original event prompted the women to all think that Sutton is a perv.

Once they found out she's not a perv, hilarity ensues!  :)  

 

Yeah, to me THAT is where a lot of it lies. That's just an ugly person right there. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Yours Truly

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Yours Truly said:

You would think it's asking the impossible. What does Crystal get from being the focus of Suttons distress? I mean shit if it were me I'd be all nicey nicey just to get off of Suttons emotional radar. 

I don't think she necessarily gets something out of that. But she probably does get something out of refusing to submit to her. This is one moment where I can totally identify with Crystal (that and being furious at being walked in on when the door's shut no matter what I'm doing). She's clearly drawn a line in her mind where the one thing she will not give up is being able to describe her own feelings in a way that she thinks is accurate. 

She's also refusing to say her reaction in the moment makes her crazy or a liar or worse. That seems like something that keeps getting overlooked. Sutton isn't just telling her to apologize for using the word "violated" to describe her feelings because it makes Sutton feel bad. Sutton's telling her she should feel bad for feeling the way she did at all. All while saying how important her own feelings are. There's a point where you've crossed the line from soothing an unstable person to placating a tyrant.

[Yours Truly]

22 minutes ago, WhatAmIWatching said:

But why should they treat Sutton as if she were a child instead of an adult?

 

 

Not being mean is treating someone like a child? Nah, I don't agree with that concept. 

23 minutes ago, Feech said:

Her smirking smug face.

LOL!

I concur!

[Yours Truly]

36 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

  This is why I am so confused by Garcelle treating Sutton with damn kid gloves every single time Sutton flies off the handle again.  

 

Well, because when someone flies off the handle it usually isn't in the best interest of anyone involved to escalate a situation with negativity or aggression. Unless of course, the goal is to exacerbate the situation therefore resulting in complete chaos. 

I usually try to go for calming a situation down and not turning a disagreement or confrontation into an altercation. But that's just me. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Yours Truly

[For Cereals]

2 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

I am curious what the appropriate expression would be in this situation?  What should Crystal done instead of looking how she did?  I am seriously asking.  

I thought her expression was just fine.  Actually whatever expression Crystal had on her face would’ve been fine because none of what went down on yesterday’s episode had anything to do with Crystal.  She was just existing at the table...she could’ve had resting bitch face, she could’ve been smiling, she could’ve just been staring blankly contemplating whatever Kathy last said that the cameras didn’t pick up or digestion of her meal or the remaining elastic in her underwear.  Whatever look she had on her face would’ve triggered Sutton because something is going on with Sutton and Crystal is the convenient outlet and Crystal ain’t here for it and she’s not coddling anyone or apologizing for her feelings and I love it.

[Yours Truly]

20 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Crystal can literally sit silently and still be on Sutton’s emotional radar. 

Well true. Crystals a bitch so I'm sure she's on multiple peoples radars I guess.  She's sure on mine. LOL!

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Not being mean is treating someone like a child? Nah, I don't agree with that concept. 

Being considered mean because you don't want to say whatever the person wants to hear to avoid a tantrum could very much be treating them like a child. 

[WhatAmIWatching]

9 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Not being mean is treating someone like a child? Nah, I don't agree with that concept. 

 

  Not being mean is absolutely a totally different thing than placating or coddling an adult woman because she may not be able to handle discussing certain subjects, or handle her own reactions and feelings over the same, instead of removing herself from the situation.  

  If she is that fragile, I sincerely -no snark- hope she either has, or gets a good therapist that can help her build the skills she will need to better handle interactions with other people, or their reactions to her behavior. (She might also wish to rethink being part of a cast on a reality show.) It's not anyone else's job to control her emotions or reactions for her.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

21 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I accept what I SAW of the incident and what Crystal conceded to afterwards when the other woman were giving her the side eye about her account. 

Yeah, to me THAT is where a lot of it lies. That's just an ugly person right there. 

 

21 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

So you concede that Crystal has conceded this. So we're back to what exactly you think that Crystal needs to apologize for? You're conceding that she has made it clear that she thought that there was no ill intent on Sutton's part and that her feelings of violation weren't about being subject to sexual assault. The thing that you believe is so "ugly." 

So I'm back to being confused as to what Crystal needs to tell Sutton to make Sutton stop attacking her. 

[Boo Boo]

Just now, WhatAmIWatching said:

  Not being mean is absolutely a totally different thing than placating or coddling an adult woman because she may not be able to handle discussing certain subjects, or handle her own reactions and feelings over the same, instead of removing herself from the situation.  

  If she is that fragile, I sincerely -no snark- hope she either has, or gets a good therapist that can help her build the skills she will need to better handle interactions with other people, or their reactions to her behavior. (She might also wish to rethink being part of a cast on a reality show.) It's not anyone else's job to control her emotions or reactions for her.

The dermal roller on her face tells me she might be seeing a therapist -- my daughter therapist told her when she feels anxious to put something cold on her skin.  She's definitely coming off as anxious and paranoid, so I hope she gets some help. 

 

[Keywestclubkid]

I still have yet to understand how crystal is a bitch....she doesn't attack anyone unless she is being attacked ..she doesn't scream yell or cry ....she stands up for herself is that being a bitch? because she isn't smiling 24/7? im lost ...how this got twisted to her being the bad one 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Keywestclubkid

[RealHousewife]

7 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

 

So you concede that Crystal has conceded this. So we're back to what exactly you think that Crystal needs to apologize for? You're conceding that she has made it clear that she thought that there was no ill intent on Sutton's part and that her feelings of violation weren't about being subject to sexual assault. The thing that you believe is so "ugly." 

So I'm back to being confused as to what Crystal needs to tell Sutton to make Sutton stop attacking her. 

Yep. I saw why Sutton was offended, but now she's the one blowing everything out of proportion. Crystal doesn't owe her anything at this point. Sutton is the one who should apologize for taking her issues out on Crystal. She didn't like Kathy's joke. She felt embarrassed showing up without a gift when it was Garcelle's birthday. She has a complex about being excluded. I have empathy for her being sensitive, insecure, hormonal, but none of that is Crystal's fault. Plus, she's younger than Sutton and is the one who's brand-new to the show. There's some role reversal expecting Crystal to be the one coddling Sutton.