Gymnastics

[Chaser]

It’s probably just perception but does Simone go higher then these guys?

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, Chaser said:

It’s probably just perception but does Simone go higher then these guys?

I think that the guys (or the elite male vaulters) have to rotate much more quickly so there's not that "flying' perception that Simone gives. 

I'm glad NBC is showing the US men and Russian men on the same apparatus. So we can sort of see that the US is just not as strong as the Russians.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Lady Whistleup

[Dots And Stripes]

7 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think that the guys (or the elite male vaulters) have to rotate much more quickly so there's not that "flying' perception that Simone gives. 

I'm glad NBC is showing the US men and Russian men on the same apparatus. So we can sort of see that the US is just not as strong as the Russians.

That's how they competed this morning. They were alternating on the same apparatus. 

[ShellsandCheese]

8 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think that the guys (or the elite male vaulters) have to rotate much more quickly so there's not that "flying' perception that Simone gives. 

I'm glad NBC is showing the US men and Russian men on the same apparatus. So we can sort of see that the US is just not as strong as the Russians.

That’s how they competed. Teams were paired off based on qualifying and instead of having all of country A go it’s A-B-A-B-A-B. I like the format and I hope they do it for the women too. Since ROC and USA qualified 3-4, they were paired together. I think Artur and David (ROC) are so cute and so short, lol. Actually Nikita’s not bad either. 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by ShellsandCheese

[choclatechip45]

1 minute ago, ShellsandCheese said:

That’s how they competed. Too tens were paired off and instead of having all of country A go it’s A-B-A-B-A-B. I like the format and I hope they do it for the women too. 

 

 

Yes they will be doing it for the Women. I think they started doing this way in 2018. 

[ferjy]

We get to hear Tchaikovsky!

 

 

[kittykat]

I'm surprised they didn't show US on Rings.  It was actually one of their better scoring events for once.

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

That’s how they competed. Teams were paired off based on qualifying and instead of having all of country A go it’s A-B-A-B-A-B. I like the format and I hope they do it for the women too. Since ROC and USA qualified 3-4, they were paired together. I think Artur and David (ROC) are so cute and so short, lol. Actually Nikita’s not bad either. 

 

Ah. Well it was kind of instructive to see the US's best and then compare it to Russia's best. 

Artur is tiny. Holy shit. I was noticing how they are not much taller than the chairs. Well he's an incredible gymnast. Anyone who can stick a Dragulescu with no Achilles is just badass.

[ancslove]

It's kind of hilarious how the Top 3 are so close in scores, and then there's this giant 5 point gap before 4th place. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

The women never would have had those errors under Marta Karolyi, I'll tell you that.  

Even if that was true I would take the errors over abused girls living in fear. The girls Marta and Bela coached made a lot of errors. They were brilliant at taking amazingly gifted athletes and running them into the ground. 

2 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

I hadn't heard of her in connection with the Nassar crimes from the young women, but I could be wrong.  I had heard Moceanu's whining after 2008. I do think Marta used old school, Romanian techniques which apparently were draconian, but nobody but the Karolyis brought glory to US gymnastics like they did.  Now that they're gone, the US women seem to have gone back to lackluster performances.  But I could be wrong there too and this wake-up call could bring them back to their usual stellar performances.

 

Oh please. This isn’t a wake up call to anything other than COVID and the fallout from the history of abuse being extremely destructive.  

Also, those Romanian girls who trained under the Karolyi’s have also been saying that they were abused by them for years. He hit one of them with a chair. They were actually the ones who came forward to support Moceanu’s “whining”.
Olympic Gymnast Claims Karolyi Beat Her

Edited July 27, 2021 by Guest

[ShellsandCheese]

It was cute watching my little Russian bb’s breaking down with tears of joy. Awww. I’m wondering if NBC will actually air the medals ceremony; after all Russia and Russians must always be the bad guy(s). 

[Lady Whistleup]

Just now, ShellsandCheese said:

It was cute watching my little Russian bb’s breaking down with tears of joy. Awww. I’m wondering if NBC will actually air the medals ceremony; after all Russia and Russians must always be the bad guy(s). 

Yeah but there's the running storyline of Artur "I don't need no stinkin' Achilles" Dalaloyan which is right up NBC's alley.

[ShellsandCheese]

I know it’s a long shot but now I really want the ROC to win gold on the women’s side. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Here's a video about Artur's recovery:

 

[Jillibean]

26 minutes ago, Dani said:

Even if that was true I would take the errors over abused girls living in fear. The girls Marta and Bela coached made a lot of errors. They were brilliant at taking amazingly gifted athletes and running them into the ground. 

This. Everyone who is now saying "Well Martha might have caused some problems but she knew how to win" is completely exemplifying the point that Aly, Simone, and many others have made over and over--that for most people, winning and gold medals are more important than the mental and physical health of CHILDREN. Do we really want medals that are won through the absolute terrorizing and abuse of young women?

Maybe they win tonight/tomorrow, maybe they don't. The outcome we should want the most is the one where none of these lovely young women have to stand up in court and give testimony as to how they were sexually abused or mentally tormented. 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Jillibean

[Mirabelle]

4 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I know it’s a long shot but now I really want the ROC to win gold on the women’s side. 

I don't because I'd love to see a Team Gold that can't be credited to the Karolyis but I'm not going to upset if they don't.  I'd rather a silver than a gold won with traumatized gymnasts.

[Lady Whistleup]

I just want a good competition the way the MAG team was a good competition. I dislike steamrolls and I also dislike competitions where a lot of gymnasts perform subpar so there's visible disappointment everywhere no matter the results.

[BitterApple]

13 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I just want a good competition the way the MAG team was a good competition. I dislike steamrolls and I also dislike competitions where a lot of gymnasts perform subpar so there's visible disappointment everywhere no matter the results.

That's what I'm hoping as well. I want everyone to do their best and let the chips fall where they may.

[DawnDavenport]

1 hour ago, choclatechip45 said:

Yes they will be doing it for the Women. I think they started doing this way in 2018. 

I believe this started in Beijing if I'm not mistaken. I seem the remember that the US and Chinese team were paired off and started on vault with the US going first and the Chinese second. 

[choclatechip45]

55 minutes ago, Mirabelle said:

I don't because I'd love to see a Team Gold that can't be credited to the Karolyis but I'm not going to upset if they don't.  I'd rather a silver than a gold won with traumatized gymnasts.

Same. I'll be upset though because I really like the gymnasts and I don't want them being blamed for losing. 

1 minute ago, DawnDavenport said:

I believe this started in Beijing if I'm not mistaken. I seem the remember that the US and Chinese team were paired off and started on vault with the US going first and the Chinese second. 

Yes but now they alternate. It used to be the whole US team would go and then China. Now Grace will go and a Russian gymnast then Jordan.

[DawnDavenport]

1 hour ago, Jillibean said:

This. Everyone who is now saying "Well Martha might have caused some problems but she knew how to win" is completely exemplifying the point that Aly, Simone, and many others have made over and over--that for most people, winning and gold medals are more important than the mental and physical health of CHILDREN. Do we really want medals that are won through the absolute terrorizing and abuse of young women?

Maybe they win tonight/tomorrow, maybe they don't. The outcome we should want the most is the one where none of these lovely young women have to stand up in court and give testimony as to how they were sexually abused or mentally tormented. 

 

Here's an interesting sarcastic take on the whole M*rtha situation:

The whole feed is worth a read.

Edited July 27, 2021 by DawnDavenport

[Conotocarious]

1 hour ago, Jillibean said:

This. Everyone who is now saying "Well Martha might have caused some problems but she knew how to win" is completely exemplifying the point that Aly, Simone, and many others have made over and over--that for most people, winning and gold medals are more important than the mental and physical health of CHILDREN. Do we really want medals that are won through the absolute terrorizing and abuse of young women?

Maybe they win tonight/tomorrow, maybe they don't. The outcome we should want the most is the one where none of these lovely young women have to stand up in court and give testimony as to how they were sexually abused or mentally tormented. 

 

The Karolyi era had gymnasts making mistakes because they were injured or driven too hard that by the time the competition started, they were done. Kim Zmeskal, anyone? She fell in compulsories in 1992. Moceanu and Strug fell on vault three times in a row in 1996 before Kerri vaulted on a bad ankle. 
 

people need to look a little farther back. Lots of people here who clearly have only watched the last few Olympics.

[choclatechip45]

Heavy Medals podcast is really good it really dives into how awful the Karoyli's are as people. 

Anyone else remember when Martha &Co messed up the visa's for the 2008 alternates so they were in Japan the whole time!

[kittykat]

On top of the amazing Marta feed, I also got sucked into the viral Sam Mikulak hugging Artur Dalaloyan pic.  The guy is just such an amazing sport.  I just want him to win ONE MEDAL!

10 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Heavy Medals podcast is really good it really dives into how awful the Karoyli's are as people. 

Anyone else remember when Martha &Co messed up the visa's for the 2008 alternates so they were in Japan the whole time!

And considering what happened to Chelsie Memmel and Sam Peszek, we needed those alternates.

[choclatechip45]

1 minute ago, kittykat said:

On top of the amazing Marta feed, I also got sucked into the viral Sam Mikulak hugging Artur Dalaloyan pic.  The guy is just such an amazing sport.  I just want him to win ONE MEDAL!

And considering what happened to Chelsie Memmel and Sam Peszek, we needed those alternates.

Yes! We wouldn't have been able to replace Sam though since she got injured in the warmup gym like right before they went out to the floor. I'll never forget in 2004 when they announced the team live and zoomed in on the gymnasts who didn't make it. 

15 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

The Karolyi era had gymnasts making mistakes because they were injured or driven too hard that by the time the competition started, they were done. Kim Zmeskal, anyone? She fell in compulsories in 1992. Moceanu and Strug fell on vault three times in a row in 1996 before Kerri vaulted on a bad ankle. 
 

people need to look a little farther back. Lots of people here who clearly have only watched the last few Olympics.

It seems like Kim thinks she was coached the right way her gym has had a lot of allegations in the last year. I always thought Kim was trying to get the Karolyi's approval by coaching since she disappointed them in Barcelona. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Here is the very voidy picture of Artur and Sam:

[ShellsandCheese]

19 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

The Karolyi era had gymnasts making mistakes because they were injured or driven too hard that by the time the competition started, they were done. Kim Zmeskal, anyone? She fell in compulsories in 1992. Moceanu and Strug fell on vault three times in a row in 1996 before Kerri vaulted on a bad ankle. 

A vault she didn't even need to make. The US Women were going to win, anyway. There's so much that I hate about the gymnastics competition at the 1996 Olympics but cannot talk about it because rah rah rah USA or something. 

[Conotocarious]

7 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Yes! We wouldn't have been able to replace Sam though since she got injured in the warmup gym like right before they went out to the floor. I'll never forget in 2004 when they announced the team live and zoomed in on the gymnasts who didn't make it. 

It seems like Kim thinks she was coached the right way her gym has had a lot of allegations in the last year. I always thought Kim was trying to get the Karolyi's approval by coaching since she disappointed them in Barcelona. 

Yeah, Kim is an example of continuing the cycle of abuse. I think she also was super supportive of the Karolyis as a coach because everyone had to get in their good graces for their athletes to have a shot at the Olympics.

[Daisy]

Just now, ShellsandCheese said:

A vault she didn't even need to make. The US Women were going to win, anyway. There's so much that I hate about the gymnastics competition at the 1996 Olympics but cannot talk about it because rah rah rah USA or something. 

yeah I mean i remember a lot of people doing docs on Mag7 and I remember someone saying that "didn't anyone do the math and see that Kerri's vault didn't need to happen." and they kinda hand-waved it and basically went She (Kerri) wanted to finish what she started. 

(what do you about it? I'm not American so I won't get mad LOL)

[choclatechip45]

2 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

Yeah, Kim is an example of continuing the cycle of abuse. I think she also was super supportive of the Karolyis as a coach because everyone had to get in their good graces for their athletes to have a shot at the Olympics.

I think that was part of it, but she also had her wedding at the ranch which is just weird. 

[Chaser]

9 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Here is the very voidy picture of Artur and Sam:

This is both awkward and adorable. I read an article that said the Russians wanted to be on rotation with the Americans because of their energy. The American men are puppies.

[DawnDavenport]

9 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I think that was part of it, but she also had her wedding at the ranch which is just weird. 

Definitely some Stockholm Syndrome going on with that one. I assume Bela was the only coach she ever had during her elite career so she probably doesn't know any better. Although at that time were there better options: Steven Nunno,Bill and Donna Strauss, Mary Lee Tracy, etc.? Probably not. 

It's apparent given her gym's track record she is using the same harsh training techniques she was subjected to.

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by DawnDavenport

[HartofDixie]

Great Suni article

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31849287/us-gymnastics-star-sunisa-lee-long-winding-journey-olympics-2021

 

[Lady Whistleup]

1 minute ago, DawnDavenport said:

Definitely some Stockholm Syndrome going on with that one. I assume Bela was the only coach she ever had during her elite career so she probably doesn't know any better. Although at that time other coaches weren't really much better: Steven Nunno, the Bill and Donna Strauss, Mary Lee Tracey, etc. 

 

I read that Kim had the type of personality where if Bela yelled, she'd yell right back. Nadia also had a very stern, strong personality. They were the rare athletes who perhaps could handle Bela. They probably just thought other gymnasts were weaker. 

It also helps that Kim and Nadia had parents who were very active and present. They didn't board at another person's house. Their parents watched practices.  

[choclatechip45]

9 minutes ago, DawnDavenport said:

Definitely some Stockholm Syndrome going on with that one. I assume Bela was the only coach she ever had during her elite career so she probably doesn't know any better. Although at that time were there better options: Steven Nunno,Bill and Donna Strauss, Mary Lee Tracy, etc.? Probably not. 

It's apparent given her gym's track record she is using the same harsh training techniques she was subjected to.

 

She trained with Mary Lee during her 2000 comeback and coached at her gym. Mary Lee is her own special version of crazy. Also from all accounts Martha was much stricter than Bela. 

[SophiaD]

11 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Great Suni article

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31849287/us-gymnastics-star-sunisa-lee-long-winding-journey-olympics-2021

 

I grew up in the Twin Cities and remember meeting fairly recent Hmong refugees when I was a little girl and hearing about their extremely difficult journey to the USA. 

The Lees sound like an amazing family.  I so hope she does well in the team and all-around final wins bars gold.  

[Lady Whistleup]

One thing I notice about the Russian and Japanese men is they have beautiful form. Legs straight and together, toes pointed, arms straight. Except for maybe the Chinese on beam and also Al Fong's students I can't think of many female gymnasts with such impeccable form. Anyone know what it is about their training that produces such good form?

[OtterMommy]

Please remember that the Political Talk Policy is enforced here.  If you have not yet do so, please review it at the link above.  

Also, discussion here should be limited to what is happening at these Olympic games.  Discussion of topics such as Nassar and Karolyi need to be taken to the general Gymnastics thread.

[Cherpumple]

5 hours ago, Chaser said:

It’s probably just perception but does Simone go higher then these guys?

This isn't the exact answer you wanted, but here's a cool side-by-side video of McKayla Maroney and Kohei Uchimura doing the same vault in 2012. Spoiler alert- McKayla went higher! I'm not sure how high Simone can go compared to McKayla.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1okVg4gwKg

 

[LexieLily]

I'm 90% sure this is a dumb question but when does the Women All-Around with Simone and Co. happen? NBC is showing it on their primetime slot tomorrow/tonight but that's not live, is it? It happens before then, Tokyo time?

[KAOS Agent]

Women's team finals start at 6:45 EDT. The Women's All Around individual is scheduled for roughly the same time on Thursday.

Edited July 27, 2021 by KAOS Agent

[pennben]

This is.....not a good start....

[Jaded]

I feel so bad for Simone and her vault. It kind of feels like the pressure is getting to her the same way it did to Nathan Chen in 2018. 

[Chaser]

It’s like Simone overcorrected from qualifications 

[choclatechip45]

That is not going to be easy to come back from.

[pennben]

Reports of Simone off floor with trainer?  I’m watching team tracker with no commentary. 

[Chaser]

It doesn’t look like she’s with the Team right now

[Jillibean]

Jordan looks like she's chalking up for bars. 

[Chaser]

In place of Simone? Oh wow.

[Jenniferbug]

What's the difference between main coverage and USA team tracker? I keep switching between them, but they're always showing the same person competing. I've only seen Simone vault and none of the other Americans (which, I like to see the other countries, but I also want to see more of the USA than Simone). What's the best version to watch?