S18.E12: The Cheesier the Better

[hacman00]

Threw on a random Chopped episode this week.  One contestant said she was a former Olympian.  I wasn't sure if it was Dawn cuz she looked a lot different.  When she got eliminated in the 2nd for not being able to finish plating I was 100% sure it was her.

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, blixie said:

I literally said my comments were NOT meant to dismiss her LEGITIMATE feelings of insecurity and her experiences as a black woman working in kitchens. It's the first sentence.  I was only trying to better understand myself, the way insecurity is for everybody. But I know the racism/sexism can be unbelievably undermining to even confident successful people, so I should have been more clear it was about my own relative struggle with insecurity, not that her struggles weren't valid and understandable.

I quoted you accurately and responded about how your language could be harmful. You suggested you understood that the kitchen was different and then went on to say that she was an Olympian and that she should be able to move past it. I pointed out that one of the most decorated Olympians in history has struggled with insecurities his entire life and how it was hard for him to talk about it. You went on to suggest what “should the rest of us  feel like” if she feels that way, that is all harmful language.

Edited June 18, 2021 by biakbiak

[SailorGirl]

I don't care what a chef's skin color is . . . if that chef consistently misses plating some elements of a dish, he or she should not be moving forward. Once, okay, shit happens, but this is what, the fourth time this has happened??  I think that's what Dale was expressing -- I don't think he was getting angry, I think he was more annoyed that this was happening yet again with Dawn, this far into the competition. Someone should have been annoyed about that -- my immediate thought was, "seriously? AGAIN?"

The food flavors may be outstanding but if not everyone experiences the same dish as the chef wants it to be experienced then that chef's skills are not at the level they need to be to qualify as one of the best in the field. 
 

[Irlandesa]

20 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

I agree with you.  Dawn has been putting out stellar dishes.  

Yes.  I think she's disorganized, based on the fact that she's always scrambling but also a very good chef based on the fact that she and Shota are tied with how many combined wins they have.

I find it kind of funny that Dawn has won the quickfire so often if she really had been eliminated on Chopped before.  It's like she got better at that time frame and needs to improve when she has more time.

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Irlandesa

[LBS]

1 hour ago, dleighg said:

My parents hailed from the Pittsburgh area. No idea if that's where the idea came from!

Chicago here. Maybe it’s 6 months of crappy cold weather for both areas that a bowl of melty cheese just hits the spot.

[biakbiak]

20 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

 

I don't care what a chef's skin color is . . . if that chef consistently misses plating some elements of a dish, he or she should not be moving forward

 

But why? It’s legitimately an arbitrary part of the rules that has nothing to do with how a kitchen actually works. A sauce not put on when the buzzer went off? In real life there is a ticket time but it’s not down to the half second. A missing component in real life the expediter would catch it before it went out. This show does a fine line of game/chefs talents. But the panel of judges continue to advance her forward based on her dishes because it’s not a standardized test but on the the dish presented and how good it tastes. Dawn might have lost at some of the games but because of her talent she has moved forward and because it is a game it’s dependent on what matters most to the judges in the end.

Edited June 18, 2021 by biakbiak

[Ms Blue Jay]

36 minutes ago, hacman00 said:

Threw on a random Chopped episode this week.  One contestant said she was a former Olympian.  I wasn't sure if it was Dawn cuz she looked a lot different.  When she got eliminated in the 2nd for not being able to finish plating I was 100% sure it was her.

HAAAAAAAAAAA I gotta look for this

[laprin]

29 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

But why? It’s legitimately an arbitrary part of the rules that has nothing to do with how a kitchen actually works. A sauce not put on when the buzzer went off? In real life there is a ticket time but it’s not down to the second. A missing component in real life the expediter would catch it before it went out. This show does a fine line of game/chefs talents. But the panel of judges continue to advance her forward based on her dishes because it’s not a standardized test but on the the dish presented and how good it tastes. Dawn might have lost at some of the games but because of her talent she has moved forward and because it is a game it’s dependent on what matters most to the judges in the end.

Agree. Too much hand wringing over missing components. If this competition was based on points and 9 judges got a dish with all the components and loved it and one judge didn’t get that component and still liked the dish, we wouldn’t even entertain this line of thought. The winner would be the one with the most points. The chefs should be judged on two things: Did they meet the requirements of the challenge? Does the dish taste good? This isn’t “Top Expeditor.” If leaving off an element causes the dish to suffer, as is often the case, then the chef would go home because the food is not good. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by laprin

[SailorGirl]

46 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

But why? It’s legitimately an arbitrary part of the rules that has nothing to do with how a kitchen actually works. A sauce not put on when the buzzer went off? In real life there is a ticket time but it’s not down to the half second. A missing component in real life the expediter would catch it before it went out. This show does a fine line of game/chefs talents. But the panel of judges continue to advance her forward based on her dishes because it’s not a standardized test but on the the dish presented and how good it tastes. Dawn might have lost at some of the games but because of her talent she has moved forward and because it is a game it’s dependent on what matters most to the judges in the end.

Because judges aren't all tasting the same thing so the judging can't be consistent. The missing element(s) could change how the flavor profiles interact, so one judge is tasting a different dish than another. Its not fair to any of the chefs. If a chef can't even make one dish consistent across 3, 4, 8, or 10 plates, there's no way the judges can accurately discuss it, because they didn't taste the same flavor profiles. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by SailorGirl

[Leeds]

7 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

Dawn is obviously skilled, but she is not cut out for serious competition. 

You mean serious competition like in the Olympics? ;-) 

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

 

I like what Gabe did in this challenge when he pickled his apple.  I have had apples in sandwiches sometimes that get lost flavor-wise.  They provide a nice crunch but almost end up being like jicama up against a strong cheese and sometimes meat.  Pickling would highlight the flavor by giving it more strength.  But fruit and cheddar can be so delicious.  One of my favorite paninis is a ham, cheddar and apricot jam concoction my local grocery store makes.  There, the fruit is punched up with sugar instead of acid and sugar.  I love pickled onions on my sandwiches.  I might have to try fruit. 

If you ever see it, Branston Pickle is excellent in a cheese sandwich and an integral part of a Ploughman's.  (I've seen it at World Market and Fred Meyer/Kroger.)

Also, pear and a mild blue cheese such as Cambazola makes an excellent sandwich/toastie.

4 hours ago, albarino said:

I think cheddar cheese would be a difficult cheese  to work with.  I'm not a chef or even a very god cook but it seems pretty oily or something.  I think I'd rather have and eat fresh mozzarella or Camembert or something.  With cheddar, my mind goes to an omelet and nachos.  That is all I got.

I once left a Camembert in the oven too long (I was making that ubiquitous early 21st century hors d'oeuvres) - believe me, there's a lot of fat.

Cheddar is excellent as a topping on a casserole like Fisherman's Pie, is delicious in Mollie Katzen's vegetarian Shepherd's Pie, is great shredded with spag bol (sorry purists, but that's how I grew up eating it because parmesan was unheard of/unavailable), and lots of other things.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Leeds

[biakbiak]

23 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

Because judges aren't all tasting the same thing so the judging can't be consistent. The missing element(s) could change how the flavor profiles interact, so one judge is tasting a different dish than another. Its not fair to any of the chefs. If a chef can't even make one dish consistent across 3, 4, 8, or 10 plates, there's no way the judges can accurately discuss it, because they didn't taste the same flavor profiles. 

Frequently  the judges share the component that was missed. All of the judges have mentioned when it was an issue and then decided that another dish was worse.  I mean the challenge that it was a deciding factor (tofu) she was disqualified in that round and went on to win the second. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by biakbiak

[watchingtvaddict]

This challenge made me feel a little queasy with the cheese on cheese on cheese aspect. But, I loved Dawn’s interaction with Tom in the kitchen when she spoke about what she was making: cheese with a side of cheese highlighting cheese. Or whatever her quote was it. It made me laugh. 
 

I did not think Shota was going to do so well. A cheese based dashi sounded super strange. Cheese tofu though… I want to try that! And it looked like the judges were all stunned and impressed by the flavors. I’m happy all the remaining contestants feel confident cooking their own food. 
 

I’m always surprised Gabe is still in the competition. His edit hasn’t been super exciting- he just seems like a mild mannered great chef who makes innovative Mexican food. The other chefs all have had more exciting personalities or gripping storylines. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by watchingtvaddict
Punctuation? IDK I think it’s still wrong.

[Nordly Beaumont]

41 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

Because judges aren't all tasting the same thing so the judging can't be consistent. The missing element(s) could change how the flavor profiles interact, so one judge is tasting a different dish than another. Its not fair to any of the chefs. If a chef can't even make one dish consistent across 3, 4, 8, or 10 plates, there's no way the judges can accurately discuss it, because they didn't taste the same flavor profiles. 

The first time Dawn didn't get her peanut sauce on, it was blind judging and the judges were unaware there ever was a sauce. They commented that it probably should have a sauce, but the dish was good enough to put her in the middle.

Second time was the tofu challenge and as biakbiak noted, she was disqualified on that round.

Third, she left the red eye gravy off two dishes. Fourth the gougere was left off one dish. I don't think either of those changed the dish dramatically. Maybe the gravy, and maybe she should have been in the middle rather than bottom or top. But they always have a top three, and since they clearly thought Jamie and Maria belonged in the bottom, Dawn was in the top group.

What was Dawn doing with her beef and those ice baths (?) seems like she lost a lot of time there.

I would bet one whole dollar that Jamie made an offer to help if they needed it since her quickfire win got her thirty extra minutes. I also think she was getting tired and homesick, her heart didn't seem to be in it anymore.

12 minutes ago, watchingtvaddict said:

I loved Dawn’s interaction with Tom in the kitchen when she spoke about what she was making cheese with a side of cheese highlighting cheese. Or whatever her quote was it. It made me laugh. 

Made me laugh too!

Edited June 19, 2021 by Nordly Beaumont

[Irlandesa]

40 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

Because judges aren't all tasting the same thing so the judging can't be consistent. The missing element(s) could change how the flavor profiles interact, so one judge is tasting a different dish than another. Its not fair to any of the chefs. If a chef can't even make one dish consistent across 3, 4, 8, or 10 plates, there's no way the judges can accurately discuss it, because they didn't taste the same flavor profiles. 

Having inconsistent dishes happens often on Top Chef.  We've heard of one judge getting a component that is cooked perfectly while another's protein is too raw which can be boiled down to an inconsistency with a cook/plating. 

We've also had times when one judge's dish was too salty while another's was just perfect.  We don't know if that's inconsistent plating or the fact that the judges have a different palette. 

Food and tastes are inherently subjective and people aren't necessarily going to experience something in the same way as I'm about to demonstrate--

31 minutes ago, Leeds said:

If you ever see it, Branston Pickle is excellent in a cheese sandwich and an integral part of a Ploughman's.  (I've seen it at World Market and Fred Meyer/Kroger.)

I appreciate the recommendation but the somewhat ironic thing is, the one veg I don't really like pickled is a cucumber...a.k.a the OG pickle.

[It might not be OG but for me as a kid it was.]

[stewedsquash]

16 hours ago, PackYourKnives said:

Gabe mentioned for the first time this episode he wants to be first Mexican chef winner.

 

He said he wanted to be the first Mexican-American Top Chef winner.

 

[Leeds]

40 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

 

Food and tastes are inherently subjective and people aren't necessarily going to experience something in the same way as I'm about to demonstrate--

I appreciate the recommendation but the somewhat ironic thing is, the one veg I don't really like pickled is a cucumber...a.k.a the OG pickle.

[It might not be OG but for me as a kid it was.]

That's okay, there's no cucumber in Branstons!

[Rambler]

3 hours ago, JBurg58 said:

I love that stupid sandwich!

I also loved the Filet o Fish when I was a kid with the one caveat being that they put waay too much tartar sauce on the thing. Had to use the wrapper to try and scrape off some of the sauce. I haven't eaten one in years, do they still put that giant glob of tartar sauce on it?

Jaime was too nice for her own good. If she was behind on her own preparations, she should have just told Dawn that she was in the weeds and couldn't help her. Dawn probably would have crashed and burned and Jaime might still be in the competition. There is $250,000 dollars at stake and you are in the final four, just go ahead and stick the knife in and you wouldn't even be seen as the bad guy unless you twirled your mustache in a talking head later (which I would absolutely love). I don't know if it's the editing, but the lack of competitiveness between the chefs is making this season boring to me. I miss the days of Spike and his Machiavellian scheming.

[PackYourKnives]

2 hours ago, Macbeth said:

I agree with you.  Dawn has been putting out stellar dishes.  

Know who else have been putting out stellar dishes AND following the rules? Shota and Gabe.

 

Final 3 should be Jamie, Shota, and Gabe. 

1 hour ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

The first time Dawn didn't get her peanut sauce on, it was blind judging and the judges were unaware there ever was a sauce. They commented that it probably should have a sauce, but the dish was good enough to put her in the middle.

Second time was the tofu challenge and as biakbiak noted, she was disqualified on that round.

Third, she left the red eye gravy off two dishes. Fourth the gougere was left off one dish. I don't think either of those changed the dish dramatically. Maybe the gravy, and maybe she should have been in the middle rather than bottom or top. But they always have a top three, and since they clearly thought Jamie and Maria belonged in the bottom, Dawn was in the top group.

What was Dawn doing with her beef and those ice baths (?) seems like she lost a lot of time there.

I would bet one whole dollar that Jamie made an offer to help if they needed it since her quickfire win got her thirty extra minutes. I also think she was getting tired and homesick, her heart didn't seem to be in it anymore.

Made me laugh too!

That's not the point. The RULES of the challenge were 5 CHEESE COMPONENTS and Dawn put 4. It's not about whether the dish was dramatically different or not, but following what the challenge was. Dawn should have been DQed but of course she isn't (for the 4th time). Will it be number 5 and 6 for the next 2 episodes? 

2 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

I don't care what a chef's skin color is . . . if that chef consistently misses plating some elements of a dish, he or she should not be moving forward. Once, okay, shit happens, but this is what, the fourth time this has happened??  I think that's what Dale was expressing -- I don't think he was getting angry, I think he was more annoyed that this was happening yet again with Dawn, this far into the competition. Someone should have been annoyed about that -- my immediate thought was, "seriously? AGAIN?"

The food flavors may be outstanding but if not everyone experiences the same dish as the chef wants it to be experienced then that chef's skills are not at the level they need to be to qualify as one of the best in the field. 
 

THANK YOU. So well said. Dawn may have great flavors, but this is "Top Chef" not "who gets some of their dishes out to some of the judges and ignore the ones she missed" 

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

I also think she was getting tired and homesick, her heart didn't seem to be in it anymore.

I don't think I can recall ever seeing a losing contestant so happy to be leaving.  She looked like she felt 100 times lighter.

[catrice2]

5 hours ago, JenMcSnark said:

Please stop yelling. 

And please show me where this is a "rule of the show" that each plate has to have every single component exactly the same.  It is a mistake to not get everything on every plate, yes. 

But the only rule as I understand it is that each judge must have a plate in order for the chef to not be disqualified.  If the chef doesn't put the same basic dish on each plate, that might be an issue.  But if it's obviously the same dish with one or even more components missing, I do not believe that breaks any rules.  It is poor time management and attention to detail, but it is still a qualifying plate and can be then judged on how it meets the challenge and on its quality, etc. 

I do not understand your references to Chopped.  I am watching and commenting on Top Chef, not Chopped.  I have never watched that show.  References to it in this context are meaningless. 

Well, Chopped is not a great example because they have let people stay before that left off a component...so......

[Ms Blue Jay]

Following Dale Talde's twitter, a couple of people are calling out his judging, one person called him "nasty" and he is further defending himself by saying the dishes were bad 😄

Damn, I feel like he is just being mean!

22 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Well, Chopped is not a great example because they have let people stay before that left off a component...so......

I feel like this is the exception though, not the rule.  Most of the time I think the contestant is cut.  There are exceptions, but they are rare.  I think I watched like 100 episodes this year!

Edited June 19, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[catrice2]

7 hours ago, The Solution said:

And one that I'm ashamed to have mentioned again.

I love cheese on fish, but then again I don't pretend to have a refined palate and move in the same circles as these people. I don't  like the McDonald's fish sandwich anymore but Wendy's had a good one for a while. 

I think that it is possible that once you have presented they put you in the stew room, which means that Gabe nor Shota would have been around to help Dawn plate? 

 

 

No, what needs to die is the idea that any time a minority person succeeds it is because there is a "fix" or something untoward or unethical going on. 

I asked before and I will ask again, why is it that the integrity of the judges is only in question when there is a minority person involved?  This season the show has been accused of giving someone a "home advantage," along with many other comments. 

Ironically when some people argue that people have NOT gone further because of the color of their skin the same people making the claims now are quick to jump in and say it has NOTHING to do with it.  So I see, when they are winning it is because of color, but when they are losing color has nothing to do with it?   And when non minorities win it is because of their talent, but when minorities win it is due to something else? 

Perhaps since people assume that they are judging past performance instead of the food that they were presented,  is it possible that Jaimie, who had left once before and had tried to leave just the challenge before, may have put doubt in their minds as to how much she wanted it?  If there are nefarious things going on based on that maybe TPTB didn't think she would be "good tv" in the long run, because they are making a show. 

At this point I think they are all deserving of a win, and Jaimie was too. It really doesn't matter because history has proved that frequently it is the non winners who end up having more exposure and more profitable careers....can we say Spike?  

[mlp]

5 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Following Dale Talde's twitter, a couple of people are calling out his judging, one person called him "nasty" and he is further defending himself by saying the dishes were bad 😄

I'm not on Twitter.  What did he say and what dishes did he say were bad?

[Ms Blue Jay]

The screenshots are in my post.  It's not really described more than that.

[Macbeth]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Following Dale Talde's twitter, a couple of people are calling out his judging, one person called him "nasty" and he is further defending himself by saying the dishes were bad 😄

Damn, I feel like he is just being mean!

I feel like this is the exception though, not the rule.  Most of the time I think the contestant is cut.  There are exceptions, but they are rare.  I think I watched like 100 episodes this year!

Thank you for sharing Dale's tweets.  He is still pissed and is ranting about Dawn.

He's showing himself to be an ass, and he is belittling her entire dish.   This is not normal behavior.  This amoount of hate and disdain towards Dawn.  What is that about.  This speaks more about his issues than it does about Dawn. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Macbeth

[PackYourKnives]

15 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

Thank you for sharing Dale's tweets.  He is still pissed and is ranting about Dawn.

He's showing himself to be an ass, and he is belittling her entire dish.   This is not normal behavior.  This amoount of hate and disdain towards Dawn.  What is up about that.  This speaks more about his issues than it does about Dawn. 

Or he knows that production kept her for some reason, and he's baffled why given how poor the dish was. Richard said it was not as good as a philly cheesteak! That's crazy!

 

I also think (pure speculation), he could be bitter with the final outcome but that's all speculation since there aren't any spoilers for the season left.. 

[rlc]

Forget leaving food off of your plate repeatedly- Dawn should have been sent home for repeatedly called the gougère gruyere (especially in a cheddar challenge).

It sounds like Gabe is not a favorite around here. I haven’t read any articles about him, but I know that most weeks, his is the food I want to eat. When Shota is good he is great, but he has had some absolutely dismal lows in this competition.

 

 

[seltzer3]

In terms of missing components and still staying in the competition, there have been many chefs that had forgot parts of their components and didn't get eliminated.

One in particular is Howie in Season 3.  The first challenge they had a surf and turf challenge.  Howie actually didn't get his frog legs on the plate.  So he had 50% of his plate incompleted.  The judges thought another contestant had a worse dish (even though it was completed) and Howie survived.

 

[JenMcSnark]

3 hours ago, Leeds said:

That's okay, there's no cucumber in Branstons!

I looked it up and now I want some!  But only the British kind with real sugar.  :)  I love chutneys and it sounds delicious. 

[Ms Lark]

I was wondering about "gruyeres" and why Dawn was messing with another cheese not on the menu! Also wondered why no one thought to make gougères! It was the first place I went, along with fricò!

On the missing gougère front: did anyone check the floor for the missing one? It could have rolled off the plate between the kitchen and the table!

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, PackYourKnives said:

r he knows that production kept her for some reason, and he's baffled why given how poor the dish was. Richard said it was not as good as a philly cheesteak! That's crazy!

 

Or hear me out he was one person on a panel of multiple judges that thought her dish was better than Jamie’s dish.

12 minutes ago, Ms Lark said:

On the missing gougère front: did anyone check the floor for the missing one? It could have rolled off the plate between the kitchen and the table!

I think it just wasn’t plated they even isolated the plate when Dawn was handing it off to the waiters.

[LennieBriscoe]

5 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Frequently  the judges share the component that was missed. All of the judges have mentioned when it was an issue and then decided that another dish was worse.  I mean the challenge that it was a deciding factor (tofu) she was disqualified in that round and went on to win the second. 

Tom mentioned that Dawn's best item was the gougere, but not everyone got to taste it. 

[LennieBriscoe]

15 minutes ago, Ms Lark said:

I was wondering about "gruyeres" and why Dawn was messing with another cheese not on the menu! Also wondered why no one thought to make gougères! It was the first place I went, along with fricò!

On the missing gougère front: did anyone check the floor for the missing one? It could have rolled off the plate between the kitchen and the table!

No. Production rolled back the tape to show us all the exact moment in the kitchen when Dawn handed Jamie the plate with the missing gougere.

It was not competitor Jamie's  responsibility to check Dawn's work. 

[Norma Desmond]

They *really* wanted to get Dawn to the finale, huh? I don't think I've ever seen a chef leave something off the plate so many times and not be eliminated. Hope she goes next.

[biakbiak]

15 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Tom mentioned that Dawn's best item was the gougere, but not everyone got to taste it. 

Yes that was stated. It wouldn’t be the first or last time that things stated during the edited critique during the final judgement wasn’t necessarily true.! Usually one only finds out during exit interviews.

12 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

when Dawn handed Jamie the plate with the missing gougere.

Dawn handed it to the waiter not Jamie. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by biakbiak

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, rlc said:

Forget leaving food off of your plate repeatedly- Dawn should have been sent home for repeatedly called the gougère gruyere (especially in a cheddar challenge).

Even Tom did that.  I think only two people actually came somewhat close to pronouncing it like gougere instead of gruyere. It was baffling.

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I feel like this is the exception though, not the rule.  Most of the time I think the contestant is cut.  There are exceptions, but they are rare.  I think I watched like 100 episodes this year!

I would say they get cut about 75%-80% of the time when all of the judges don't get a required component.  I think that percentage decreases if it's only one judge.  So leaving off a component increases the odds exponentially but it's also not unusual for a contestant to survive doing it either. But that's Chopped.  This is Top Chef. 

I get that Dale had strong opinions last night and on Twitter but he's just one opinion at the table.  And all I mostly know about him are posts like this:

17 hours ago, Mr. Miner said:

Again, how did Dale get this judging gig? He finished 6th both times he was on TC.

That's the sentiment I mostly remember seeing about him.  "Why's he here" is all I really know about him.

Because of that, I'm not inclined to take his opinion over Tom, Gail, Ed Lee and Padma's.  Those tweets sound like sour grapes.  He wanted Dawn to get the boot.  He lost the ensuing debate. 

Quote

Tom mentioned that Dawn's best item was the gougere, but not everyone got to taste it. 

Brooke was the only one without a gougere.  Gail also said it was the best bite of the night.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Irlandesa

[jackjill89]

This isn't Chopped, so honestly, until this week, when a chef needed to have five different presentations of cheddar and she left one presentation off one judge's plate, I don't know why this is such a big deal or as some are saying, a rule breaker. 

She isn't a great competitor in the kitchen with these time constraints. She isn't a great team player, as was demonstrated during restaurant wars, but time and time again, the judges have praised her food. 

I don't feel she should win, but I can't argue with how far she's gotten. She's a hot mess at times, but a hot mess that cooks really tasty food. I don't remember if the judges were harder on items left off plates in years past. All I know is they think that her plating transgressions are a lesser evil than a dish that doesn't taste as good. 

 

[Yeah No]

14 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

If Dawn keeps placing high even when she forgets to put everything on everyone's plate, that tells me she might be the best chef there because eliminating someone over forgetting a component is eliminating someone over anything but the quality of the food. Hell, if Dawn can make it to the finale and manages to put complete dishes out, I see no reason why she wouldn't win.

I agree with this.  I see why it can look like Dawn is getting special favor with the judges thanks to the editing, but that's not where my mind is going with this.  And believe me if I even caught a whiff of that it would bug me no end.  I don't care what Dale Talde says.  Plus I am saddened to see that it's being seen as a racial thing.  I am just not seeing it at all.  I think her food is that good that she is being forgiven for leaving things off the plate.  That said, if she does this in the finale and gets away with it then I might give it some side eye, but it still depends on what her food is being compared to.  Her omission from only one plate was weighed against the relative good/bad aspects of Jamie's dish and found not to be as big an issue as whatever was wrong with Jamie's dish.  Pure and simple, case closed.  I don't think this was outside the realm of completely plausible given what Jamie presented.  Even just on sight and concept it's completely plausible.  So I'm still on team Dawn.

Plus I'm not seeing Dawn as a villain or milking some kind of victimhood or whatever.  Seeing that even less.  I know the editing can make things look a certain way but it works both ways and I think it's a pretty big stretch to see her that way.  It totally disrespects and invalidates her accomplishments as a chef.  I think she is absolutely amazing and is where she is because of her talents and performance.  I don't think it can be explained away by any sort of negative stuff based on her heritage or negative interpretation of her behavior on the show. 

11 hours ago, Fukui San said:

I want a future challenge to be to make a dish which pairs fish with cheese. Make sure Tom is judging along with some Italian chefs.

Haha, what gets me though is that while it is an Italian thing to be against pairing fish or seafood with cheese, it's not necessarily an Italian American thing.  After all, we are the ones that invented shrimp parm. not the Italian Italians.  And personally I think its the height of pretentiousness for Italian American chefs to get fussy about pairing fish with cheese.  If you like it, don't worry about what the Italians think.  Even Lidia Bastianich says this!

And love me some Micky D's retro fish with cheese!  It's still one of the only things I will eat at McDonald's (the other being egg McMuffin, LOL).

3 hours ago, Macbeth said:

Thank you for sharing Dale's tweets.  He is still pissed and is ranting about Dawn.

He's showing himself to be an ass, and he is belittling her entire dish.   This is not normal behavior.  This amoount of hate and disdain towards Dawn.  What is that about.  This speaks more about his issues than it does about Dawn. 

Yes, it does say more about his issues than it does about Dawn.  Sadly, I don't expect more from Dale.  I do remember his season vividly and although he has calmed down a lot since then he has obviously not changed all that much.

[Yeah No]

On 6/17/2021 at 9:05 PM, Bastet said:

I’ve been to the Tillamook factory, but that was long ago, before they made the visitor’s center so huge.  I wasn’t sure if they’d be able to work that in this season given the pandemic restrictions.

I went there exactly 20 years ago this summer, less than a month before Sept. 11th.  I was really excited and happy to see what they've done with the visitor's center.  Makes me want to go back....

16 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I couldn't help but think back to the time they went to Italy and took a tour of the Parmesan cheese factor.  That was amazing and such a romantic experience.  Tillamook didn't quite hold that same mystique. 

Yeah, but as romantic cheese experiences go on this side of the pond Tillamook has got to be one of the best.  For some reason my visit there has always stood out in my mind as one of my favorite experiences in the PNW, and I've had some great experiences there!  I do wonder, though, if in normal, non-pandemic times the public is still allowed to tour the inside of the factory on the catwalks and get up close and personal with the cheesemakers stirring the vats....

That said, I actually remember eating Tillamook cheese as far back as the 1970s when my mother and I would buy it at the A&P in NYC.  It's not that common here in the Northeast, although I do get it at Target in case anyone wants to know where to find it.

ETA:  There is actually a Tillamook Cookbook available on Google Books.  It mentions a few fish/seafood recipes with cheese.  This one was printed in 2008/2013 but my mother had one 40 years ago too.  I was hoping to find it in my parents' apartment when I cleaned it out after they died but sadly did not.  As a kid I was always fascinated by the rhyming of "Tillamook" and "Cookbook", LOL.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Yeah No

[CrazyInAlabama]

I find Dale to be mean, and vindictive.   I know we only see a tiny part of the cooking, and especially the judging, and decisions (I remember reading that the Stew Room and the beginning of judging to someone getting eliminated is hours, not a few minutes), but Dale's remarks were awful.    Maybe he's reacting to others doing better than he did?   

[PackYourKnives]

3 hours ago, hendersonrocks said:

For the love of all things holy. The tightness with which some of you all are holding on to your idea of the rules and what is/is not allowable and what should/should not be deemed Top Chef worthy is wild. 

It's a competitive reality show. This isn't a mission to Mars with a checklist of all that must be completed. The people who taste the food get to decide.

Dawn is getting raked over the coals by the judges on national TV, being told how talented she is but her mental lapses are getting in the way. That feels like punishment enough.

Dawn has already done remarkably well, making it to final 4. It was the perfect exit for it and would have ignore the backlash. 

 

But the show appears set on a coronation for her no matter what she does or does not do. 

27 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I find Dale to be mean, and vindictive.   I know we only see a tiny part of the cooking, and especially the judging, and decisions (I remember reading that the Stew Room and the beginning of judging to someone getting eliminated is hours, not a few minutes), but Dale's remarks were awful.    Maybe he's reacting to others doing better than he did?   

Well clearly he knows the outcome of the show (again there aren't any spoilers left for the season) so my best speculation is that he's seeing what we're all seeing too.. 

2 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Or hear me out he was one person on a panel of multiple judges that thought her dish was better than Jamie’s dish.

I think it just wasn’t plated they even isolated the plate when Dawn was handing it off to the waiters.

And Gregory. And Dale Talde. And the other judges since she was at the bottom. 

Know who doesn't taste her food? The producers. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by PackYourKnives

[LennieBriscoe]

3 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Yes that was stated. It wouldn’t be the first or last time that things stated during the edited critique during the final judgement wasn’t necessarily true.! Usually one only finds out during exit interviews.

Dawn handed it to the waiter not Jamie. 

Thank you for that correction. Even more supportive of her own fault. 

[LennieBriscoe]

13 hours ago, Suzn said:

So, if Dawn wins, it will be for the wrong reasons?  Yes, she has left a component off the plate more than once.  I consider that less of a crime than bad food and her food has been consistently good.  I'm hoping she wins and even more that a win is not diminished by attributing it to other than her cooking.

I don't  understand  all the "Dawn's  food has been consistently good" comments. Just tonight it was assessed as lacking the required 5 different techniques (with three being sauces), and her take on the Philly Cheesesteak as not being up to the original. 

But again, Jamie went against a Cardinal Rule ( because the fish was "mild"), and her poor judgment could not stand. 

(Mollusks and shellfish, FWIW, are not fish. But Tillamook wants to sell its cheddar, so it doesn't surprise me that its recipes include salmon. Tuna Casserole  is common, of course.)

Edited June 19, 2021 by LennieBriscoe

[LennieBriscoe]

3 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

This isn't Chopped, so honestly, until this week, when a chef needed to have five different presentations of cheddar and she left one presentation off one judge's plate, I don't know why this is such a big deal or as some are saying, a rule breaker. 

She isn't a great competitor in the kitchen with these time constraints. She isn't a great team player, as was demonstrated during restaurant wars, but time and time again, the judges have praised her food. 

I don't feel she should win, but I can't argue with how far she's gotten. She's a hot mess at times, but a hot mess that cooks really tasty food. I don't remember if the judges were harder on items left off plates in years past. All I know is they think that her plating transgressions are a lesser evil than a dish that doesn't taste as good. 

 

But time constraints, team work, and task completion either are important to "Top Chef," or they are not.

 

 

 

 

[MartyQui]

15 hours ago, Totale said:

Perhaps I was forming my refined Top Chef level palate back in the 1970s when I first had one of those and thought "That cheese doesn't belong there. Yuck!" 

I used to make myself a fish, cheese and tartar sauce sandwich for breakfast in high school (in 1976!).  We had the classy fish sticks that were more like little fish filets.  My sisters were disgusted that I could eat it at 6a, but it was brain food, right?

 

[dleighg]

10 hours ago, watchingtvaddict said:

A cheese based dashi sounded super strange.

I couldn't even imagine it. Cheese is....... gooey. Dashi is ...... clear. 

 

10 hours ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

What was Dawn doing with her beef and those ice baths (?) seems like she lost a lot of time there.

I was confused as well. Wasn't that a sous vide/immersion set-up? Those have temperature thermostats, so I have no idea why she was fussing around with ice to cool it down.

[Ms Lark]

5 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I think it just wasn’t plated they even isolated the plate when Dawn was handing it off to the waiters.

and

5 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

No. Production rolled back the tape to show us all the exact moment in the kitchen when Dawn handed Jamie the plate with the missing gougere.

Thanks for that. I totally missed the shot of them not plating the missing gougère. Ah, well.

[Leeds]

9 hours ago, JenMcSnark said:

I looked it up and now I want some!  But only the British kind with real sugar.  :)  I love chutneys and it sounds delicious. 

I've got it through Amazon but to make it cost effective I've had to buy a three-pack.  (No hardship for me but a bit of a leap of faith if you've never had it before!)  If you have access to a World Market there's presumably is the British original.  Of course the ideal way to buy it is to go to the UK - when you factor in the authentic Cadbury's and other goodies like Thornton's, Walker's crisps, Twiglets, Haywards pickled onion, Polos, Hobnobs, etc, I'm sure you can justify the cost!

Edited June 19, 2021 by Leeds

[Leeds]

 

6 hours ago, PackYourKnives said:

 

Well clearly he knows the outcome of the show (again there aren't any spoilers left for the season) so my best speculation is that he's seeing what we're all seeing too.. 

 

Who's "he"?  How does anyone know the outcome before the final judging?  Or are you saying it's rigged?

[carrps]

On 6/17/2021 at 10:49 PM, biakbiak said:

Random thought I love that Dawn’s knife kit is a backpack!

I've been loving it since the first time I saw it!

21 hours ago, laprin said:

It’s a stereotype that many black people, like myself, wish would die a slow death. 

Ah, I figured out the acronym after this. Agree it's an ugly stereotype...even when POC say it. Also, I want to say that I haven't found the show to be rooting any harder for Dawn than others and highlighting her for the win. Even the BLM mention was in passing in the Panafrican episode and never mentioned again.

19 hours ago, Totale said:

When Dawn was recruiting Jamie to help her plate we were both asking why didn't she ask one of the guys who had already presented.

Others beat me to the punch with this, but when Dawn was working on her dish, there was a shot of Shota in the foreground with his knifeset packed and walking determinately off...to the Tillamook stewroom, I assumed.

Sorry, LEEDS. I had Branston pickle at a pub and didn't care for it. Normally, I love anything pickled, but the flavors of the Branston didn't appeal to me. I can't remember the exact specifics, but it was too sweet or something. Didn't hate it; just didn't like it.

At this point, for me, unless Gabe is revealed to be Ted Bundy levels of evil, I'm o.k. with any of the final three winning.