S04.E10: The Wilderness

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

Quote

June objects to Fred's plea bargain agreement and struggles to accept his pending freedom. She draws on all her resources and relationships, risking everything to ensure her own kind of justice.

Promo:

Original air date: 6/16/21

Edited June 14, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Medicine Crow]

The show "Progress" was labeled as a repeat on my line-up.  Good thing I watched anyway ... it was a new show!!!

[greekmom]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CP889Z2DVqy/?utm_medium=copy_link

Other trailer is up. Not much more than the US trailer but it looks like 

Spoiler

Fred is off to Geneva and Lawrence meets with June?! 

 

[Bannon]

I'm not confident that this arc is going to be written well. Hopefully, I'm wrong, but I suspect that the writers are going to make June really simple-minded in her "I demand justice!" mode.

[EllaWycliffe]

I have similar fears, Bannon

5 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I'm not confident that this arc is going to be written well. Hopefully, I'm wrong, but I suspect that the writers are going to make June really simple-minded in her "I demand justice!" mode.

June does sometimes ignore her own personal survival to do things but I do question whether she would *really* choose death/imprisonment if it meant she could kill Fred. Its also at odds with her wish to rescue Hannah. Fingers crossed that I am completely wrong and am forced to say "I was wrong, that was AMAZING!"

[Bannon]

21 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I have similar fears, Bannon

June does sometimes ignore her own personal survival to do things but I do question whether she would *really* choose death/imprisonment if it meant she could kill Fred. Its also at odds with her wish to rescue Hannah. Fingers crossed that I am completely wrong and am forced to say "I was wrong, that was AMAZING!"

I suspect that they are going to make June too dumb to grasp the destruction of Gilead is the outcome that all other goals must be subservient to. Fred's just a malignant cog in a massively malignant machine, to anyone with a 3 digit IQ. 

[greekmom]

Short clip

[mamadrama]

The scene between Fred and June is probably my favorite one from the past 2 seasons. I saw it coming, but it was still interesting to watch. I was extremely uncomfortable. 

Fuck Serena Joy getting her own house. Little Miss Mamadrama said, "Oh, we have a GREAT house for you. You'll love it! Now the bed's a little hard, there are bars on the windows, and you'll only be allowed outside for an hour a day but you can read WHATEVER you want!" 

My kid's a smartass. 

 

[Penman61]

“I know thee not, old man.”

”Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn.”

”Sure, Fred. We can Zoom.”

[EllaWycliffe]

21 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

The scene between Fred and June is probably my favorite one from the past 2 seasons. I saw it coming, but it was still interesting to watch. I was extremely uncomfortable. 

Agree. Not ready to say "it was AMAZING" because I have like... huge plausibility issues with so much, but so lovely to see Fred finally get his comeuppance. I assume next season will be The Torture of Serena, June Osborne's Final Fury.  More to say tomorrow when I am less tired.

[chocolatine]

I loved the idea of Fred being traded back to Gilead for 22 female resistance fighters and was hoping to see him get sentenced to death by the regime that he helped create. That would have been the sweetest Karma of all time, and I don't even believe in Karma. So I absolutely hated the twist that not only June but also a bunch of other refugee handmaids were able to breeze in and out of Gilead to kill Fred particicution-style. Sure, Nick "loves" June, but would he really risk all of their lives for that maneuver?

And June knew that this would ruin what was left of her marriage with Luke, but she just had to have her revenge exactly how she wanted at the cost of raising Nicole in a happy home with a mother and father. Let's celebrate that decision with another close-up of June's face, y'all!

Next season can we have Serena sent back to Gilead, please?

Edited June 16, 2021 by chocolatine

[Hathaway]

Emotional perfection.

The women finally had a particulation they wanted.

"I'm a man!  I deserve justice!"

Well dude?  You got it.  So did a bunch of former Handmaid's.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Hathaway

[mamadrama]

13 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Agree. Not ready to say "it was AMAZING" because I have like... huge plausibility issues with so much, but so lovely to see Fred finally get his comeuppance. I assume next season will be The Torture of Serena, June Osborne's Final Fury.  More to say tomorrow when I am less tired.

At this point I say crush Serena Joy's legs, throw the 2 women in a dilapidated mansion, and watch June Baby Jane it. 

I'd watch it. 

[mamadrama]

14 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I loved the idea of Fred being traded back to Gilead for 22 female resistance fighters and was hoping to see him get sentenced to death by the regime that he helped create. That would have been the sweetest Karma of all time, and I don't even believe in Karma. So I absolutely hated the twist that not only June but also a bunch of other refugee handmaids were able to breeze in and out of Gilead to kill Fred particicution-style. Sure, Nick "loves" June, but would he really risk all of their lives for that maneuver?

And June knew that this would ruin what was left of her marriage with Luke, but she just had to have her revenge exactly how she wanted at the cost of raising Nicole in a happy home with a mother and father. Let's celebrate that decision with another close-up of June's face, y'all!

Next season can we have Serena sent back to Gilead, please?

Yeah, I get that it was good that the women got to attack, but I'd have rather seen him suffer under his own laws. Just as I'd like to see Serena Joy suffer under Aunt Lydia as a Handmaid. Not Janine-loving Aunt Lydia but taser-wielding, life-will-be-so-much-better-now-that-you-don't-have-a-clitoris Lydia. 

I know I say this after every episode but DAMN Fred is a dumbass. 

[Brn2bwild]

This went somewhat different from how I imagined.  Glad Fred got what he deserved, but was hoping it wouldn't have to be June who gave it to him.  I wonder if Emily is going to be similarly a persona non grata in her home since she participated.  Even though Serena's fate is left undetermined, it's pretty clear that she's at the top of the slide to her own doom as a prisoner for life or as a handmaid.

[Hathaway]

5 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Yeah, I get that it was good that the women got to attack, but I'd have rather seen him suffer under his own laws. Just as I'd like to see Serena Joy suffer under Aunt Lydia as a Handmaid. Not Janine-loving Aunt Lydia but taser-wielding, life-will-be-so-much-better-now-that-you-don't-have-a-clitoris Lydia. 

I know I say this after every episode but DAMN Fred is a dumbass. 

Something to look forward to!  Serena justice up next!

Loved the acting all around in this one.  Special mention to Emily, and bitchy bossy Serena, as well as skeevy Fred, June, wimp Luke, and the ever surprising Joseph.

1 minute ago, Brn2bwild said:

This went somewhat different from how I imagined.  Glad Fred got what he deserved, but was hoping it wouldn't have to be June who gave it to him.  I wonder if Emily is going to be similarly a persona non grata in her home since she participated.  Even though Serena's fate is left undetermined, it's pretty clear that she's at the top of the slide to her own doom as a prisoner for life or as a handmaid.

I know!  I kept thinking I knew what would happen, especially since I've never missed a spoiler, but?  They did it!

[Pachengala]

28 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I loved the idea of Fred being traded back to Gilead for 22 female resistance fighters and was hoping to see him get sentenced to death by the regime that he helped create. That would have been the sweetest Karma of all time, and I don't even believe in Karma. So I absolutely hated the twist that not only June but also a bunch of other refugee handmaids were able to breeze in and out of Gilead to kill Fred particicution-style. 

This. I don’t know why I keep checking back in on this show, thinking that maybe this time they’ll respect narrative, but here we are again, sacrificing what would have been a truly chilling development for The Elizabeth Moss show. 

[Brn2bwild]

I don't understand how the Americans just trusted Fred to give accurate information.  At least wait to see if the information is good before agreeing to set him free.  That said, it did seem slightly shitty that Tuello changed the agreement with Fred last minute.  In real life, could they just do that?  

[lavenderblue]

I.......hated it. June is my least favorite character, to be fair, so while thematically, sure, I guess this makes sense as a finale, it was just so much June and Fred and quiet talking and then grrl power murder montage. We knew Fred had an expiration date and while I'd seen spoilers suggesting the particution, for a moment during the scene with Lawrence and Nick, I was a little excited that maybe we were actually getting a more book-style outcome of Fred being hoisted by his own Gilead petard. But nope, not the show's way. 

As a finale, the lack of movement on any other plot thread also peeves. While it's great those women were saved, I'll admit I was hoping Lawrence would trade himself as intel, because that could potentially mean some sort of novel development next season. And the "just five minutes, OK" at the end -- that seemed more like June knew she was under arrest or something, not that Luke suspected she'd just killed a dude with her friends, so curious what all the Canada residents knew of what was going down with her crew.

Edited June 16, 2021 by lavenderblue

[dmc]

That wasn't what I expected but I didn't find it polarizing either.

I think most people will be happy Fred is dead.

So apparently there was a way for June to get justice and for them to help other people in Gilead.

So eff Tuello. June ended up making a better deal than he did. I know a lot of people have defended him and doing his job but I think he's shitty at it.

Also the scene where he was talking about June coming to his home as being inapprorpriate seriously fuck this guy and his only sentamentality to a rapist.

Let the Nick and June ship continue!

Bradley Whitford is amazing at his job.

[chocolatine]

24 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

That said, it did seem slightly shitty that Tuello changed the agreement with Fred last minute.  In real life, could they just do that?  

He said he was "exercising a provision of that deal." The deal probably had a ton of legalese fine print that gave the US a lot of wiggle room. (Had it been Serena to get the deal, I'm sure she would have caught and redlined all of those provisions.)

5 minutes ago, dmc said:

So eff Tuello. June ended up making a better deal than he did. I know a lot of people have defended him and doing his job but I think he's shitty at it.

The trade for the 22 women wasn't on the table when Tuello first made the deal with Fred. To his credit, once that option was on the table, he made the right choice.

[dmc]

1 minute ago, chocolatine said:

He said he was "exercising a provision of that deal." The deal probably had a ton of legalese fine print that gave the US a lot of wiggle room. (Had it been Serena to get the deal, I'm sure she would have caught and redlined all of those provisions.)

The trade for the 22 women wasn't on the table when Tuello first made the deal with Fred. To his credit, once that option was on the table, he made the right choice.

deals aren't on the table until you negotiate them.  You can bring any deal to a table.  

[chocolatine]

1 minute ago, dmc said:

deals aren't on the table until you negotiate them.  You can bring any deal to a table.  

Sure, but Fred was not in the position to offer any kind of trade, only a high-ranking commander who was still in Gilead would have been able to offer that. Tuello made the best deal he thought he could get from Fred at the time, but when June asked him to meet with Lawrence, Tuello correctly recognized that as an opportunity to make a better deal. 

[aghst]

Well that was something.

Some kind of feminist revenge fantasy realized?

Barbaric things were done to these women so they get to resort to barbarism themselves?

June covered in Fred's blood smears her baby daughter with it.

I am surprised, figured that Fred and Serena would last until the end of the series but really his story lines had gone stale for awhile now.

It wasn't just that the women participated.  They hung him on the wall and then sent his severed finger to Serena, who certainly deserves comeuppance, because she's now smug and very demanding, wanting to go see probably some palatial homes.

That is like Ariya paying back Waldor Frey for the Red Wedding by feeding him his own sons.  Or like the Romans salting Carthage.

Yeah I don't get how Joseph and Nick trade 22 Handmaids for 1 commander and then turn him over to escaped Handmaids.  Sure they both want to help June but aren't they under suspicion?

This show is now all about mindfucking -- it was there in the beginning but it seems to be all that's left.

 

[dmc]

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Sure, but Fred was not in the position to offer any kind of trade, only a high-ranking commander who was still in Gilead would have been able to offer that. Tuello made the best deal he thought he could get from Fred at the time, but when June asked him to meet with Lawrence, Tuello correctly recognized that as an opportunity to make a better deal. 

Tuello didn't attempt to make any other kind of deal.  His plan was always to get Fred to turn over intel.  When someone whose not in intelligence gets a better deal in 48 hours than you negotiated in a year, you aren't good at your job.  Everything June did, he had the ability to do.  And another dumb thing is thinking someone who has been out of the game for a year still has great intel.  Fred has been in custody for almost a year.  Any plans he was apart of could be different.  Especially since Gilead knows he's in custody. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by dmc

[chocolatine]

5 minutes ago, dmc said:

Tuello didn't attempt to make any other kind of deal.  His plan was always to get Fred to turn over intel.  When someone whose not in intelligence gets a better deal in 48 hours than you negotiated in a year, you aren't good at your job.  Everything June did, he had the ability to do.

In a real life scenario, probably, but in this case we're talking about Super-June with the ability to get Lawrence and Nick to do anything for her no matter the risk to their own lives. I think we're supposed to believe that Lawrence would not have entertained any kind of negotiation with Tuello had it not been for June.

[mamadrama]

I was glad to see that Elisabeth Moss didn't direct this episode, but I felt the Jezebel exposition narration at the beginning (and end) was unnecessary. I get it, show, I do. I felt like they were hitting me over the head with a hammer while telling me that they were hitting me over the head with a hammer. 

[The Mighty Peanut]

What a heartwarming finale. Hate conquers all, at last. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by The Mighty Peanut

[Helena Dax]

I loved Fred's death. Maybe it makes no sense from a logical point of view, but it was deeply satisfying from an emotional point of view. And while personally I suck at revenge, I understand why some people might need it or might find it useful. June is simply too  "damaged" to leave the past behind, especially knowing that Fred was going to be free. After all, she's never been really all that interested in healing. The thing that gets her heart pumping is revenge. And that's why she's going to leave, because she knows that she's not ready to go back to a normal life. She wants to fight against Gilead with her own hands and I guess that's what she will do next season.

And who's to say that she, Emily and the others don't feel better now? When you've been forced to become a sex slave, maybe tearing apart one of your captors is exactly what you need to get better faster. Obviously  personal revenge isn't good for society as a whole, but maybe be it can be psychologically good for some people.

Pity we didn't get to see Serena's reaction to Fred's death.

[chick binewski]

That felt...unsatisfying?

3 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

We knew Fred had an expiration date and while I'd seen spoilers suggesting the particution, for a moment during the scene with Lawrence and Nick, I was a little excited that maybe we were actually getting a more book-style outcome of Fred being hoisted by his own Gilead petard. But nope, not the show's way. 

The show becomes infinitely more interesting when they don't focus on solely on June. I also was disappointed we didn't see Fred back in Gilead.

"I know what you covet." Between that and asking why she's staying with Fred this show is shipping Tuello & Serena. The businesswoman-conference calling imprisoned Serena still makes little sense to me, but this episode seemed like they were queuing her up to have more power next season.

[dmc]

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

In a real life scenario, probably, but in this case we're talking about Super-June with the ability to get Lawrence and Nick to do anything for her no matter the risk to their own lives. I think we're supposed to believe that Lawrence would not have entertained any kind of negotiation with Tuello had it not been for June.

I mean agreed but I knew last week that was his only option like he presented to be

4 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I don't understand how the Americans just trusted Fred to give accurate information.  At least wait to see if the information is good before agreeing to set him free.  That said, it did seem slightly shitty that Tuello changed the agreement with Fred last minute.  In real life, could they just do that?  

this and even being truthful...he's been gone a year

 

[mamadrama]

5 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I don't understand how the Americans just trusted Fred to give accurate information.  At least wait to see if the information is good before agreeing to set him free.  That said, it did seem slightly shitty that Tuello changed the agreement with Fred last minute.  In real life, could they just do that?  

That and, charter member of the boys' club or not, did they really think Gilead would trust *Fred* with classified, important information? I mean, they HAVE met the guy...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

While I get that this was pure revenge fantasy, after watching Fred (and the other men of Gilead) rape their handmaids, abuse their power, and absolutely RELISH it the entire time, I was fine with having the show kill Fred off this way. Yes, it would have been delicious to see the system he helped create take him down (especially if it were done publicly) but it's a tv show so I'm okay with the shortcut that gave June, Emily, and many of these women who suffered for years under Fred and other assholes just like him. The question now is if, like Inigo Montoya, they know what to do with themselves now that they've gotten their pound of flesh.

Fred's absolute arrogance never failed to astound me. His belief in himself was so strong that he couldn't read the room to save his life. I mean, he couldn't even see the obvious contempt dripping from Serena. "Sure, we can zoom, Fred." And even as he was being taken away, his sense of entitlement never wavered: "I'm a man! I have rights!" I rolled my eyes when he said that Nick and June kissing was sick. Yes, so sick that two people who were forced together in a terrible situation ended up developing feelings for each other. I mean, it's only okay when Fred said he had feelings for Offred but Nick and June? Clearly Fred thought it was gross beyond words.

The other thing that drove me crazy was Fred pretending to apologize to June after he oh so graciously said that he forgave her for the things she said in court and that he understood that she had to frame things a certain way in front of the judge and her husband. Of course he still wants to believe that she really really liked him and that she was totally into having sex with him. And then the only thing he actually apologized for was separating her from Nichole because now that Serena's pregnant, he totally gets it! And don't forget that there were discomforts for him in Gilead too!

I loved the woman who was questioning Fred. More of her, please! It was still hard for me to be very entertained by her thanks to Fred and his gross attitude. Of course the other commander wasn't charged with anything when he killed an oncologist who was forced to work as a prostitute at Jezebel's. Why? Because that poor commander didn't intend to harm her!

Loved Joseph saying that Fred wasn't a used Subaru.

14 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I don't understand how the Americans just trusted Fred to give accurate information.  At least wait to see if the information is good before agreeing to set him free. 

I know, right? He could have been making up anything just to mislead them and get his immunity deal. Did they even try to confirm if any of the info he gave them was accurate?

Edited June 16, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo
typo

[dmc]

Just now, mamadrama said:

That and, charter member of the boys' club or not, did they really think Gilead would trust *Fred* with classified, important information? I mean, they HAVE met the guy...

Fred is a dum dum

[AntFTW]

Well, this was a surprisingly satisfying episode.

[WearyTraveler]

6 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I don't understand how the Americans just trusted Fred to give accurate information.  At least wait to see if the information is good before agreeing to set him free.  That said, it did seem slightly shitty that Tuello changed the agreement with Fred last minute.  In real life, could they just do that?  

Tuello had a line in which he said to Fred that what was happening was within a provision of the agreement they had signed.

So, if I were to guess as to how that all came about legally, agreements with people for immunity are granted with conditions. Usually, one such condition is that whatever information the accused is providing must be accurate and not knowingly misleading.

After his meeting with Joseph, and assuming the US has more than one informant/spy, Tuello can claim, and probably prove, that some of the information provided by Fred was fake and)or intentionally misleading, in which case his immunity agreement will be revoked and the US can choose to exchange him for other prisoners.

There's also the possibility that the agreement included a provision that Fred's freedom would be contingent upon the International Court accepting the terms of the deal. So, it's likely that Tuello went to the International court prior to that court's ruling and asked them not to accept the agreement because the info provided by Fred did not comply with the terms and to relinquish custody of the prisoner back to the US. Then the US is free to have the prisoners'  exchange.

[AntFTW]

6 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I don't understand how the Americans just trusted Fred to give accurate information.  At least wait to see if the information is good before agreeing to set him free.  That said, it did seem slightly shitty that Tuello changed the agreement with Fred last minute.  In real life, could they just do that?  

I’m not sure if this applies in an international criminal court context, but from what I know (I think), in the states judges have some discretion over sentencing and plea deals because the deals usually have to be approved by the court. If a defendant makes a plea deal with the prosecution, a judge can reject that plea deal, with justification of course. Fuello mentioned that the court rejected Fred’s deal for reasons I couldn’t quite hear.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer or any type of legal professional at all so anyone please correct me if I’m wrong.

[Bannon]

I can understand why the audience might enjoy watching Fred's demise, but my honest reaction is that this episode featured incredibly clumsy&amateurish writing, which was the culmination of a season where the writers sacrficed the narrative for the dumb visual, to the point where the audience didn't even get the visual, just the butchered narrative. I cannot decribe how bad I thought the Fred&June in the prison cell scene was, and then that was nearly topped by the awful dialogue between jogging Tuello and June. I feel bad for the actor playing Luke, with what the writers have him doing and saying.

When this show is not in Gilead, it just falls off the cliff, it seems to me. I may "Homeland" it, and give up. It's kind of interesting that the two shows both suffer(ed) from similar structual flaws.

 

 

[Bannon]

11 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I’m not sure if this applies in an international criminal court context, but from what I know (I think), in the states judges have some discretion over sentencing and plea deals because the deals usually have to be approved by the court. If a defendant makes a plea deal with the prosecution, a judge can reject that plea deal, with justification of course. Fuello mentioned that the court rejected Fred’s deal for reasons I couldn’t quite hear.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer or any type of legal professional at all so anyone please correct me if I’m wrong.

It's hopeless to try to make any sense of the legal jumble the writers have presented us with. Best to just wave your hands and mumble "whatever".

[Trillian]

When Fred kept calling Nick “son”, I was so expecting (and rather hoping that) he would reply “don’t call me son. I’m an officer and a lawyer and you’re under arrest you son of a bitch.”

[EllaWycliffe]

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

And June knew that this would ruin what was left of her marriage with Luke, but she just had to have her revenge exactly how she wanted at the cost of raising Nicole in a happy home with a mother and father. Let's celebrate that decision with another close-up of June's face, y'all!

A point where I am genuinely unclear is why this was a deal breaker for Luke. I can think of several reasons, myself, but we've never hear from Luke at all and I don't see why June's assumption was that she'd have to get the fuck out.

 

7 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

That said, it did seem slightly shitty that Tuello changed the agreement with Fred last minute.  In real life, could they just do that?  

Yes. Frankly the CIA is kinda known for shady dealings. It was also a pretty unpalatable situation letting him go free.

[Stephanie23]

54 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I can understand why the audience might enjoy watching Fred's demise, but my honest reaction is that this episode featured incredibly clumsy&amateurish writing, which was the culmination of a season where the writers sacrficed the narrative for the dumb visual, to the point where the audience didn't even get the visual, just the butchered narrative. I cannot decribe how bad I thought the Fred&June in the prison cell scene was, and then that was nearly topped by the awful dialogue between jogging Tuello and June. I feel bad for the actor playing Luke, with what the writers have him doing and saying.

When this show is not in Gilead, it just falls off the cliff, it seems to me. I may "Homeland" it, and give up. It's kind of interesting that the two shows both suffer(ed) from similar structual flaws.

 

 

I agree so much with this.

We need more Gilead next season, Canada just isn't working.

We did not find out who is Nick's new wife, what happened to Esther, Janine and Lydia, also big mistake not showing Serena the ring and finger, etc.

Maybe a controversial opinion, but I am not a fan of the episode (and this season in general), didn't expect much and they still kinda disappointed me lol

 Everything in the second half of the episode felt like a THT fanfic.

 

Tuello omg he definitely gave Fred to Gilead only because of Serena. Now everyone sees that he  does have feelings towards her, even Fred saw it in the way he was observing them talk and when he said what he said to him on the bridge.

Next season the two of them will have a relationship now that Fred is out of the picture.

 

Luke was never a character that  I liked. But this season he delivered.

He was the voice of reason for June and she didn't listen.

 

I hope next season we get less of June finally, there is so much more story to be told besides her story.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Stephanie23

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Stephanie23 said:

I agree so much with this.

We need more Gilead next season, Canada just isn't working.

We did not find out who is Nick's new wife, what happened to Esther, Janine and Lydia, also big mistake not showing Serena the ring and finger, etc.

Maybe a controversial opinion, but I am not a fan of the episode (and this season in general), didn't expect much and they still kinda disappointed me lol

 Everything in the second half of the episode felt like a THT fanfic.

 

Tuello omg he definitely gave Fred to Gilead only because of Serena. Now everyone sees that he  does have feelings towards her, even Fred saw it in the way he was observing them talk and when he said what he said to him on the bridge.

Next season the two of them will have a relationship now that Fred is out of the picture.

 

Luke was never a character that  I liked. But this season he delivered.

He was the voice of reason for June and she didn't listen.

 

I hope next season we get less of June finally, there is so much more story to be told besides her story.

Fer' the luv' of Fonzie doing aerials over cartilaginous predatory fish, if they write an intimate relationship between Tuello and Serena next, it'll be a good thing I don't own a pistol, because I'd otherwise pull an Elvis on a 72 inch flat screen.

[Baltimore Betty]

I get June wanting poetic justice of Fred running thru the woods scared then being trapped and beaten to death by the handmaids and martha's he terrorized in Gilead but was it really a way that Tuello could get rid of Fred, get 20 women out of Gilead and keep his hands clean letting June do all the work?  Does he think Serena is the hill to die on? She has shown herself to be the brains of the inception of Gilead, evil, twisted, psychotic, etc...I thought Tuello was all about human rights, fairness, making things right for the people that may not have a voice, so what is attractive about Serena she is the complete opposite of everything he supposedly stands for.

Will there be another season, please say yes, this story needs to right it's self.

I was wondering, would Fred have faired better if the council had gotten a hold of him or was it better for him that the handmaids and company did him in?

Also, who picks up a baby and smears blood in their face from a person you just murdered? 

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, Baltimore Betty said:

 

Also, who picks up a baby and smears blood in their face from a person you just murdered? 

A person written by clueless writers?

[Baltimore Betty]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I know, right? He could have been making up anything just to mislead them and get his immunity deal. Did they even try to confirm if any of the info he gave them was accurate?

Why aren't they using Nick for information or at least checking a few facts with him?  

Commander Lawrence maybe aligning himself with the Feds if things start to change in Gilead, he is playing both sides of the fence and wants to be in good favor with Tuello should he need a hasty exit from Gilead, I think.

[Quickbeam]

35 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

A point where I am genuinely unclear is why this was a deal breaker for Luke. I can think of several reasons, myself, but we've never hear from Luke at all and I don't see why June's assumption was that she'd have to get the fuck out.

I didn’t understand that at all. I felt as if I had missed a whole episode. Which I didn’t so, motivation hole. I felt confused.

[bluestocking]

Where was the wall Fred ended up on hanging on?  How did the woman get him there?

[Maurina]

That was the most disturbing attempt at fan service I've ever seen.

[dubstepford wife]

22 hours ago, Bannon said:

A person written by clueless writers?

I actually think getting blood on Nicole made some sense.  The story is ambivalent about June at this point, she's become someone we're not exactly supposed to support, because she's using her pain for the purposes of revenge.  Revenge doesn't always equal justice.  In Fred's case it might have, but there's no way June's Revenge Tour is stopping with him.  And getting blood on Nicole could be representative of how hatred can be passed down through generations and how it's our children who wind up suffering because of our wars.  

The thing I hated the most was the music.  Yes, I know that song has been played in the show before, but holy crap was that heavy-handed.  Feminist revenge fantasy set to the backdrop of "You Don't Own Me."  We get it show.  Men don't own women's bodies and rapists don't own their victims.  And Fred dying should have been accompanied I think by either a sweeping score, or no music at all.  It would have made it more dramatic and been more consistent with the anti-hero nature of June's deeds, where we're supposed to have mixed feelings about it.  This, plus Emily's cheerful little "I wanna play too!" smile just cheapened it and made it seem like we're meant to laugh maniacally.  

Serena is the real villain at this point, and I think she always has been.  It's a woman focused story and Serena, Aunt Lydia, and Janine all have lots of story left to tell.  We didn't need Fred anymore.

Edited June 17, 2021 by dubstepford wife