S03.E06: Chapter 22 - The Fundamental Things Apply

[OtterMommy]

Everyone gathers for a heartfelt wedding. And as time moves forward, schemes fall apart and dreams come true.

[humbleopinion]

Last train to Clarksville.

Estelle is a nasty piece of work.

Over too soon.

[juno]

Michael Douglas is so good in this show but it seemed that at times he was a secondary character this season. Most of the season was about the effect of the loss of Norman on Sandy and the issue of his ex-wives health.

Lisa Edelstein's character was turned into a cartoon and I thought it was pretty crappy as her character had a lot of depth in past seasons. Lisa and Haley Joel were turned into villians that were only after Norman's money. I kept waiting for them to have some sort of a plot but nothing happened

I thought Sarah Baker was great as Sandy's daughter as she had a prominent role this season. Unfortunately so did Paul Reiser who had a large role this season. Reiser's character, Martin was hard to watch as he was not funny and not interesting and in way too many scenes. He kind of killed the season for me.

One of the better parts of the season was the movie role that Sandy got and him winning an Academy Award.

[shapeshifter]

I, OTOH, thought the use of actors/characters was perfect.
Mileage varies. 🤷‍♀️

I loved it, but then if some Hollywood bigwigs had wanted to make a show just for me, this would be it. 

But I do really appreciate a well-edited script, along with high quality production in everything from sound to casting, and everything else in between.

Bring on the Emmys! 🏆

[circumvent]

On 5/29/2021 at 11:29 AM, juno said:

Reiser's character, Martin was hard to watch as he was not funny and not interesting and in way too many scenes. He kind of killed the season for me.

I will never tire of Paul Riser. I loved that they were watching a movie in which that Paul Riser acted. Little breaking down the fourth wall there

[supposebly]

I just binged this whole season in one night. I thought it was almost perfect. While it was a bit jarring how Norman's daughter and grandson turned into cartoon villains (and his girlfriend all of a sudden had a plethora of mental illnesses that I didn't think should be played for laughs), the rest was pretty wonderful. I loved that Roz had a bigger role because I adore Kathleen Turner and her chemistry with Michael Douglas.

Best line: He was a bad husband but he gave great head.

I'm still not sure why Martin lied to Sandy about not touching the money but it gave me the scene where he couldn't get out of the car.

I have a vague recollection that this was the last season?

[chitowngirl]

On 5/29/2021 at 11:29 AM, juno said:

One of the better parts of the season was the movie role that Sandy got and him winning an Academy Award.

He won an Emmy, not an Academy Award.

[Irlandesa]

Well I would have watched another season of Roz and Sandy so I was bummed with the way that ended. I don't get what the point of killing her off after also killing off Norman.  Depressing, much? 

2 hours ago, supposebly said:

Best line: He was a bad husband but he gave great head.

She made another comment about his prowess, I think, in a previous episode and I just loved the way he raised his eyebrows in a flirty way, 

[chitowngirl]

Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner has such great chemistry!

[Paloma]

57 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner has such great chemistry!

It helps that they have had such a great friendship for so long. 

 

[monakane]

19 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Well I would have watched another season of Roz and Sandy so I was bummed with the way that ended. I don't get what the point of killing her off after also killing off Norman.  Depressing, much? 

One of the things I appreciate about this show is it shows what we deal with when we're aging.  Sadly, losing friends and loved ones is part of that.  It felt spot on as did Sandy's speech to his class about dying.  Michael Douglas knocked it out of the park.

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, monakane said:

One of the things I appreciate about this show is it shows what we deal with when we're aging.  Sadly, losing friends and loved ones is part of that.  It felt spot on as did Sandy's speech to his class about dying.  Michael Douglas knocked it out of the park.

That’s exactly how I saw it, @monakane. It was perfect. But I, like Michael Douglas, am both a cancer “survivor” and have seen aging people die. Perhaps viewers with as yet different life experiences would not be as satisfied with the series ending? 

[supposebly]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Perhaps viewers with as yet different life experiences would not be as satisfied with the series ending? 

Well, I would have been fine with someone else dying. I just wanted more show with Kathleen Turner! But since this was the final season, I'm ok.

[DonnaMae]

I loved the entire series and would have been happy if it had continued, but this had a good ending.  Michael Douglas was terrific, but I did miss Alan Arkin.

[SoMuchTV]

I think my favorite moment was the waiter cheering at the end.  (I promised myself I'd lay off the IMDB.  I don't want to find out he's really younger than all of them.)  Although I think my allergies flared up a bit when Margaret was in her car looking at the billboard.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, DonnaMae said:

I loved the entire series and would have been happy if it had continued, but this had a good ending.  Michael Douglas was terrific, but I did miss Alan Arkin.

Totally agree with this, and felt the same.

 

3 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I think my favorite moment was the waiter cheering at the end.  (I promised myself I'd lay off the IMDB.  I don't want to find out he's really younger than all of them.)  Although I think my allergies flared up a bit when Margaret was in her car looking at the billboard.

I too loved those moments.
This season of the show was a real balm after Covid and all the other crap.

[Madison59]

Season 3 was disappointing and felt the writers were just trying to give a quick wrap up for the series.  Arkin was so obviously missed.  The banter between him and Douglas WAS the show.  Paul Reiser made this season.  Jane Seymour was reduced to a cringe-worthy performance as was the entire funeral.  What makes comedy funny is the fact that the scene could actually happen.  Not in this case.  Thanking Norman for leaving Sandy in charge of his will was good.  Norman's daughter and son were excellent.  Oh, what shall we say about Roz?  Could the writers not make her salty without all the vulgar comebacks?  Felt disappointed as this season was highly anticipated. 

[lucindabelle]

Yes people die in real life but it still felt a bit cheap.

wel at least she didn’t die at the wedding.

I thought wrapping everything up so neatly was a let down TBH.

Don’t get me wrong it would be worse if the movie flopped-  it the student gets an Emmy too? Come on.

I did like the friendship between the former war of the Roses.

all the characters are Jewish so to me it was odd given their age nobody wanted to break a glass by whatever.

this season wasn’t as specific as previous ones. Even Estelle in the helmet at the end was funny- and cheap. Glad they got a bigger tv though!

[Melina22]

On 5/29/2021 at 12:29 PM, juno said:

Lisa Edelstein's character was turned into a cartoon and I thought it was pretty crappy as her character had a lot of depth in past seasons. Lisa and Haley Joel were turned into villians that were only after Norman's money. I kept waiting for them to have some sort of a plot but nothing happened

Yes! What a strange arc she had. Hopeless addict to rehab success story to... potential murderer? 

I didn't love this episode. It was such a strange mix of reality and fiction, absurd, cartoony moments with genuinely moving ones. Personally I found it disjointed and somewhat unsatisfying, especially compared to the joy of watching the first season. Still, it had lots of great moments. Michael Douglas was wonderful throughout. 

[Irlandesa]

I think the story with Norman's daughter is a story on how money can bring out the worst in people.  She was a success story until she was faced with inheriting 150 million dollars and she'd do anything to get her hands on it.

It was told on a lesser scale with Paul Reiser's character.  He probably wasn't a money hungry guy.  But suddenly, it looks like there is a ton of money available to him and the opportunity to own a dream car was to hard to pass up. He probably thought, in the scheme of things, it wasn't that much.  And, in the scheme of things, it probably isn't.  But those splurges add up.

I'm not passing judgement on whether or not it was enjoyable or not--just sharing what I think the intent likely was.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Irlandesa

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think the story with Norman's daughter is a story on how money can bring out the worst in people.  She was a success story until she was faced with inheriting 150 million dollars and she'd do anything to get her hands on it.

It was told on a lesser scale with Paul Reiser's character.  He probably wasn't a money hungry guy.  But suddenly, it looks like there is a ton of money available to him and the opportunity to own a dream car was to hard to pass up. He probably thought, in the scheme of things, it wasn't that much.  And, in the scheme of things, it probably isn't.  But those splurges add up.

I'm not passing judgement on whether or not it was enjoyable or not--just sharing what I think the intent likely was.

Yes, I agree that the corrupting influence of wealth was a major plot point for the Season 3 episodes. 
But we also see Norman having used his influence in an apparent deathbed moment to land Sandy the part that would at last fulfill his life's dreams. Why had Norman not gotten Sandy such parts previously? Is there a message here that the fame that comes with Emmys and Oscars is as corrupting as that of a $10 mil inheritance? 
And/or maybe the message is that such accolades are best bestowed late in life?

I did enjoy Norman's ex-Scientologist grandson inadvertently giving $50K to an indigent person of color instead of succeeding in hiring a hitman to take out Sandy.
I'm sure Norman would have been pleased too.
 

[arachne]

One thing that wasn't too clear to me: By the end of the series, are Mindy and Martin still married? I like to think not, since Mindy objected to Martin's mom so much. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, arachne said:

One thing that wasn't too clear to me: By the end of the series, are Mindy and Martin still married? I like to think not, since Mindy objected to Martin's mom so much. 

I assumed Mindy and Martin were still married, but now that you ask, I'm not so sure. 
It's probably discussed in an interview somewhere.

[Irlandesa]

I would assume they're still married.  I imagine once she collapsed, they felt they couldn't send her back to Arizona.  And Martina and his mother were watching the Emmys where Mindy was her dad's plus one.

[Kirkydee]

A couple of things I'm not understanding, or not remembering correctly.

Phoebe- started off as an addict, then eventually became clean and worked at a frozen yogurt/ice cream place.  But I don't remember her being some huge success story. Just temporarily clean for the moment, possibly to get in good graces with Norman and his will

What did the grandson expect if Sandy was murdered?  The money to automatically rolled over to him and his mother?  I don't know anything about trusts, but I'm sure it's not that easy

Really enjoyed the Douglas/Turner banter.  I will always think of Kathkeen Turner as Matty Walker in Body Heat.  I watched that as a teenaged boy on a free weekend for The Movie Channel.  Ned Racine busting the glass and going after Matty was Uber hot. Well in 81 it was Uber hot.  Today it maybe classified as part of rape culture. 

[debraran]

I didn't know where they "hit" thing was going and I thought this is going to ruin the episode but the "mistake" was hilarious but did leave that part hanging. Hopefully he gave up now being broke. : )

I thought the sexual references with Michael were also a reference to his cancer when he said he probably got it from oral sex with his wife which he did often. Not a good thing, re cancer but he didn't want to hide the fact HPV could have contributed to it and his talks about it became quite viral at the time.

I liked this season more than last and although I missed Alan, liked Katherine very much and she helped balance him and their chemistry is great. Phoebe I agree was wasted. I wish there were more episodes but Bravo to them all for a good show on aging and just humor which we all need so much especially now.

And for some childish reason, I laughed out loud at the word "a**hole" that came up on Roz's phone when he called her. They both had nicknames but it just hit it the right way. ; )

Edited June 4, 2021 by debraran

[leighdear]

I enjoyed it, and seem to be the only person that didn't miss Alan Arkin.  He was a great character, but I didn't feel his absence in these 6 episodes.  Morgan Freeman was awesome as always.  His "scene" with Sandy was hilarious. 

I was really hoping Mindy wouldn't marry Martin.  I have never liked Paul Reiser, but the scene with him trying to get his mom in the Porsche was horrifyingly goofy.  And I did think it was funny them watching "Diner", and only showing Kevin Bacon.  Were he & his mom later watching the Emmy's at the end on a huge TV?  

Thankfully they didn't do a time jump with Mindy pregnant.  I was dreading that possibility in that last episode.  

Nice tie-in with Margaret crying over her billboard, as Sandy cried over his.  The end was perfect with him placing his Emmy on the stool & telling his students it was time to get to work.  

[meep.meep]

I really liked this final season of the show.  It showed how important Norman was to everyone around him.  And it expanded Sandy's bubble by including his ex-wife.

But, as a former estate executor, Sandy should have given Norman's daughter and grandson some money initially, then said that was it until everything was straightened out.  Why?  Because he paid himself right away.  The $10M he gave to Mindy was his inheritance from Norman.

[Crs97]

I had not expected to be so invested in the success of a fake movie, but was so happy to see him win the Emmy.  I don’t remember when this happened (we binge-watched) so am putting it here - when the doctor spoke to Sandy with such disdain about how he could screw up being married to Roz, I wish he had had the presence of mind to say that if they had remained married she might not have joined Doctors Without Borders.  I also don’t know why Mindy was so bothered by his saying Roz and he were buddies.  Perfectly good description of their relationship.

I felt for Mindy; she ended up stuck with the mama’s boy she was worried about.  I also liked Sandy threatening Martin; for all his humbleness he suddenly enjoyed spending Mindy’s money on stuff that only he wanted:  Porsche, theatre room expansion, hair plugs - glad they just compromised on getting a bigger TV.

We missed Norman, but enjoyed the series.

[iMonrey]

My only gripe is that the whole Robbie and Phoebe thing was left unresolved. I mean, the only reason Sandy wasn't murdered was because Robbie is an idiot but won't he try again? Sandy's life is still in danger as long as Robbie and/or Phoebe are plotting against him.

Otherwise I thought it was a nice way to close out the series even if they couldn't get Alan Arkin back. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

My only gripe is that the whole Robbie and Phoebe thing was left unresolved. I mean, the only reason Sandy wasn't murdered was because Robbie is an idiot but won't he try again? Sandy's life is still in danger as long as Robbie and/or Phoebe are plotting against him.

Otherwise I thought it was a nice way to close out the series even if they couldn't get Alan Arkin back. 

It didn't bother me, perhaps because I figured Robbie would always screw it up, like he did everything.
I see any future attempts by Robbie to kill Sandy all ending much like the Coyote trying to catch the Roadrunner, with Robbie being metaphorically pancaked.
Perhaps the guy who Robbie did give the $50K will wind up being picked up for some crime along with the $50K, and, in order to plead to "time served," he will tell the detectives all about Robbie, whom he will eventually pick out of a line-up, who will in turn get a lesser sentence for turning over Phoebe and the hit man to the cops. 
And then there's that clause that if they contest the will they get bupkis, so when they get out of prison they'll continue on being miserable, while Sandy will have since passed on with a smile of contentment.
 

 

[bobby2018]

Please someone make season 4 (or a spin off) based on @shapeshifter's plot!

[Crs97]

I had assumed at first that the man who took the money was an undercover cop, but laughed harder that he was just a random guy.  I like shapeshifter ’s plot!

[foxfreakinmulder]

On 5/30/2021 at 1:57 PM, chitowngirl said:

Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner has such great chemistry!

I've enjoyed all the movie they made together.

This was a fun show to watch, I don't think I laughed much but it was entertaining. I did miss Norman and Sandy's talks and loved Sandy's toast to his friend in the bar after the funeral and loved the old waiter. The whole funeral scene was dumb especially what they did with Jane Seymour's character.

Norman's daughter did not look like a recovering addict and it made me sick that her and her son could not be happy living in that beautiful house with a $5,000 a month allowance when I'm sure that was a big step-up from what they had. Money is the root of all evil isn't it. It did look like HJO was having fun playing the ex-Scientologist greedy grandson.  

Sandy's daughter did not seem happy with Martin maybe it was just the way the actress played her but I didn't get happy from her. I didn't care for Martin with his ponytail and first thing he buys when he had money was a red sports car. Also, he hooks up with Mindy who is young enough to be his daughter. Sound like a mid-life crisis to me.

I liked Sandy winning an Emmy and his speech. Listen up Hollywood people when you win your award give a speech like Sandy and stop preaching to the people that pay money to watch your movies about your fucking politics. 

That was a nice way to end the show having Sandy put his Emmy on a stool and say "lets get to work". 

 

[Blakeston]

I enjoyed this season a lot, although it was far too short. There were a lot of directions they could have gone in, and a Michael Douglas/Kathleen Turner buddy comedy was the best possible outcome, IMO.

I was glad they revealed that The Old Man and the Sea was a TV movie, because a non-celebrity being cast in the lead was a lot more plausible that way.

I really don't get what the point of Martin's mother was. She wasn't funny. Why on earth would Mindy allow her to live with them for a year? It's hard to say, because Mindy was a void. The writers never bothered to give us a sense of who she was, beyond her exasperation with her father.

[Cherry Cola]

16 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I enjoyed this season a lot, although it was far too short. There were a lot of directions they could have gone in, and a Michael Douglas/Kathleen Turner buddy comedy was the best possible outcome, IMO.

I was glad they revealed that The Old Man and the Sea was a TV movie, because a non-celebrity being cast in the lead was a lot more plausible that way.

I really don't get what the point of Martin's mother was. She wasn't funny. Why on earth would Mindy allow her to live with them for a year? It's hard to say, because Mindy was a void. The writers never bothered to give us a sense of who she was, beyond her exasperation with her father.

Agreed. It was far too short. I just started the show a few weeks ago, and was sad to learn it was already done! 

Martin's mom was definitely nasty. I didn't like Martin much either, but I am a fan of Paul Reiser. Just not this charachter. 

I also did not like the addition of Norman's grandson. I felt that story went no where. 

It was a good ending. The whole episode went so fast!

Edited June 18, 2021 by Cherry Cola

[Milburn Stone]

On 6/10/2021 at 11:51 AM, foxfreakinmulder said:

I liked Sandy winning an Emmy and his speech.

Speaking of that, it didn't make sense to me that he wasn't up for an Oscar. I know in the previous episode he said something like, "I won't be eligible for an Oscar because it's one of those streaming things," but haven't we crossed that Rubicon already? "Streaming things" have been eligible for Oscars for two years now.

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, Milburn Stone said:

Speaking of that, it didn't make sense to me that he wasn't up for an Oscar. I know in the previous episode he said something like, "I won't be eligible for an Oscar because it's one of those streaming things," but haven't we crossed that Rubicon already? "Streaming things" have been eligible for Oscars for two years now.

IIRC it was more of a “limited series” than a movie. 
And I think the reason they put this bit in the script was in part to illustrate how TV is now as respected as film —which was not the case in Sandy’s youth. 
Also, it showed a bit of character growth in Sandy being satisfied and grateful to get “just” an Emmy.

Edited July 9, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Milburn Stone]

12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

IIRC it was more of a “limited series” than a movie.

You could be right, but if that information was given to us, I missed it.

I assumed it was a streaming movie because the novel is so thin, you could barely make a movie out of it, let alone a mini-series.

[Irlandesa]

12 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

"I won't be eligible for an Oscar because it's one of those streaming things," but haven't we crossed that Rubicon already? "Streaming things" have been eligible for Oscars for two years now.

Yes but streaming services make both TV movies and "Oscar" movies.  The difference is usually whether or not the streaming service opts to do a theatrical run to make it Oscar eligible.  So it can be either. 

[Milburn Stone]

36 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Yes but streaming services make both TV movies and "Oscar" movies.  The difference is usually whether or not the streaming service opts to do a theatrical run to make it Oscar eligible.  So it can be either. 

Not that it's worth arguing about, but if Warner Bros. took out a big billboard on Sunset Blvd., I bet they'd schedule a one-week theatrical run to make it Oscar-eligible.

My guess is Chuck Lorre said, "Having him win a Best Actor Oscar would be just too fantasyland for the audience to buy. Let's downscale the achievement a little to make it go down easier."

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Not that it's worth arguing about, but if Warner Bros. took out a big billboard on Sunset Blvd., I bet they'd schedule a one-week theatrical run to make it Oscar-eligible.

Ha. I like having friendly discussions about fictional circumstances that probably would make no sense in the real world. 

The studio might be prioritizing other movies for an Oscar run but still want this movie to do well for other reasons so they publicize it.  Netflix does a lot of publicity for some movies that are exclusively Netflix.