S04.E18: The Wild and Woolly World of Nonlinear Dynamics

[mammaM]

I forgot to mention:

I like that they brought up what we've been saying all season, Missy is taller than Sheldon, though I would have said more than half an inch😂

[eel21788]

16 hours ago, Browncoat said:

I guess that answers the question of which twin is older.  

Also, that they were delivered by c-section.

[LekoBoy]

Did we know before this episode that Mary has siblings?

[SmithW6079]

Is Melissa Peterman always doomed to play the "other woman" in sitcoms? 🤣

[anna0852]

23 minutes ago, LekoBoy said:

Did we know before this episode that Mary has siblings?

Yes. She mentioned Charlene and Edward in Season 1.

[tennisgurl]

That was a serious downer, especially after last weeks episode also ended on such a sad note. I knew this was coming, as they seem to want to stick with BBT cannon, but this is going to be seriously rough goings next season. This has quickly gone more into the drama side of being a dramady, and while its not exactly a barrel of laughs I am really engaged with everything. No George, don't do it, especially not with Brenda! That just makes it even worse, cheating is bad enough, let alone with her friend/neighbor. It does make sense with everything that has been set up, Benda is lonely George has been depressed for a long time and his marriage is on the rocks, it sucks but it has all been set up. The affair and the marriage between George and Mary crumbling, plus the reminder last week of George's impending death, means that we are going to have a lot of sad coming up. 

George trying to be there for Missy, in an awkward kind of way, was really sweet. Missy isn't wrong that Mary always takes Sheldon's side, probably because Mary and Sheldon really are a lot alike. It was also really nice when Georgie made his mom some soup for dinner. Not the best soup ever, but its the thought that counts. I also really like that Sheldon tried to look out for Missy in his own way, and that they had a nice scene in the creepy Scooby Doo shack. 

Its interesting watching this when thinking about how Sheldon of BBT talked about his dad and family. Its been awhile since I watched BBT, but I remember him talking about his dad like he was this big dumb redneck jerk who was always yelling at Mary and cheated on her and was generally a crappy husband and father. They probably went in a different direction with George in the show because that doesn't sound like a very fun sitcom, even a sitcom with a lot of more serious subjects, but as this show is from the perspective of an older post BBT Sheldon, who is now a husband and father himself, you could probably see it as him being more perspective on his father as he got older and matured. His thoughts on his dad were colored by the affair and how close he is with his mom, but now can see that, while the upcoming affair is an awful thing to do, their marriage had a lot of problems even beyond that, which were on both George and Mary, who both made mistakes in their marriage, and that his dad was ultimately a good, if flawed, man who loved his family even when he made mistakes, and that he loved Sheldon very much even if he never fully understood him.

[tessaray]

I liked the episode. They finally let Missy off the couch, so going forward the height difference shouldn't be an issue. And Georgie was sweet. 

They are doing a good job laying the foundation for all the various storylines.  I feel for all the characters, though Mary is really the most annoying.

Spoiler

I just hope when the inevitable happens, it's a cliffhanger with a time jump in the next season. Some stuff I don't need to see on my screen.

 

[Chit Chat]

I always liked Mary, warts and all, so to see her portrayed rather badly has me a little bummed!  On one hand, it really wasn't a bad idea for her and Peg to split up the responsibilities, but on the other hand, she shouldn't have been barking orders at her.  

[Katy M]

Mary, no you can't give the sermon. Why would you even think you could.

the ingredients were all there for a perfect storm.  Mary having a bad day, Missy being heartbroken, Sheldon being Sheldon, George just in general not liking his life.

Unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to watch next season.  I was kind of hoping they were going to retcon.  Especially with that black hole episode.

[71dude]

That reminded me of Dan and Roseanne's big blowup on "Roseanne", only without the trashed furniture. These actors are tremendous - Zoe's getting better material than her mother these days. 

I wonder if they'll pick up at the same place or do a time jump. If Iain has a height surge and a voice change in the next four months the continuity will be wrecked, unless they planned ahead and already shot the next episode.

[Driad]

13 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Mary, no you can't give the sermon. Why would you even think you could.

In some churches, lay people can give sermons.  I don't recall hearing whether this church  allows it.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, Driad said:

In some churches, lay people can give sermons.  I don't recall hearing whether this church  allows it.

It's not that she's a lay person.  It's that she's a woman. this is an evangelical Baptist church that is pretty strict on following Bible rules.  If they can't dance, they can't have women teaching men.

[Chit Chat]

33 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to watch next season.  I was kind of hoping they were going to retcon.  Especially with that black hole episode.

I will watch the first episode and see what happens.  I won't stay if the storyline continues to be depressing.  I don't need that shit.  ;) 

[shapeshifter]

33 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Mary, no you can't give the sermon. Why would you even think you could.

13 minutes ago, Katy M said:

It's not that she's a lay person.  It's that she's a woman. this is an evangelical Baptist church that is pretty strict on following Bible rules.  If they can't dance, they can't have women teaching men.

Yeah, but having Mary suggest out loud that she could give the sermon might have been the best part of the episode —albeit also the most unrealistic.

I wonder if the writers realized how unrealistic it was for Mary to say that, or if they just thought it fit with Mary being characterized as “preachy” throughout the episode.

[Kiddvideo]

I’m not going to watch a comedy where the Lazy Slob George thinks he’s so special and deserves so much better that he cheats on his wife and family. If he has an affair with Brenda or the next desperate woman who comes along, I’m done.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

18 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I agree.  I have faith that the writers of this show are skillful enough to make everything that happens plausible, believable, and not quite as dark as anticipated from the looks of this finale.  Maybe after a night of drinking and being seen with this woman Mary might get wind of it and believe something happened that didn't actually happen.  Or the next morning George himself will believe something happened that didn't happen and won't remember what actually happened because he was drunk.  There are many ways the writers can sanitize this so as not to go to the dark place it looks like it's going in this episode.  The writers can make George look like he was manipulated and he might actually not be guilty of adultery at all.  But it may really look that way to Mary nonetheless if she finds out about it, which would be regrettable, but that would still be more sympathetic to George than the alternative.

Or maybe Brenda gives George good advice.  She knows how hard it is on a child when his father isn't around.

Edited May 15, 2021 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, Kiddvideo said:

I’m not going to watch a comedy where the Lazy Slob George thinks he’s so special and deserves so much better that he cheats on his wife and family.

I don't think he's a lazy slob.  He enjoys a beer when he gets home.  Not a big deal.  I'm hoping that they'll take this storyline into a more cheerful resolution and the season finale was just a red herring. 

[Sarah 103]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Or maybe Brenda gives George good advice.  She knows how hard it is on a child when his father isn't around.

That's my guess. I don't know why everyone assumes he's going to have an affair at this point in his life (and before anyone says anying I have watched The Big Bang Theory). I could easily see Brenda telling him that he doesn't want to do this. I could see her talking him down to staying out late and coming home at the crack of down. Brenda would remind him that he loves his kids and that whatever problems he's having with Mary isn't worth destroying the relationship he has with his kids. 

[WinnieWinkle]

12 hours ago, Magnumfangirl said:

Am I the only one who thinks Missy has turned into a brat?  She used to be the funny one, but now she's obnoxious.  When she told George "I am not a child."  I wanted him to say "You most certainly are!"

Yes - agreed. What bothers me is she's only 11 and one of the comforting things someone said (I think George) was that she would have other boyfriends.  Ok, just me or is 11 awfully young to be having boyfriends?  Certainly seems young to me that she'd have a boyfriend AND parents who accept this as a natural thing.  

[Zoe]

27 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

Yes - agreed. What bothers me is she's only 11 and one of the comforting things someone said (I think George) was that she would have other boyfriends.  Ok, just me or is 11 awfully young to be having boyfriends?  Certainly seems young to me that she'd have a boyfriend AND parents who accept this as a natural thing.  

Middle school (especially 6th grade) was all about first boyfriends when I was growing up. 

[Magnumfangirl]

2 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

Yes - agreed. What bothers me is she's only 11 and one of the comforting things someone said (I think George) was that she would have other boyfriends.  Ok, just me or is 11 awfully young to be having boyfriends?  Certainly seems young to me that she'd have a boyfriend AND parents who accept this as a natural thing.  

Yes, it's too young especially with a mom who's as religious as Mary.  

[Yeah No]

I don't understand wanting to quit the show no matter how they handle what happens next.  It's not like most of us didn't know something like this might happen eventually.  I can understand being shocked if someone never saw TBBT but most of us have.  And even if I never saw BBT I would not be shocked if Brenda manipulated George somehow nor would it be a reason for me to stop watching the show.

Also, I'm seeing some fairly revealing things posted here regarding TBBT that I thought weren't allowed in this thread.  Personally I wish they were allowed. That show has already aired.  I actually wish there were such a prohibition against talking about "Roseanne" on "The Connors" thread because stuff is being talked about on that thread that I knew nothing about because I never watched "Roseanne" much so it's all like a spoiler to me.

[Bort]

33 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Also, I'm seeing some fairly revealing things posted here regarding TBBT that I thought weren't allowed in this thread.  Personally I wish they were allowed. That show has already aired.  I actually wish there were such a prohibition against talking about "Roseanne" on "The Connors" thread because stuff is being talked about on that thread that I knew nothing about because I never watched "Roseanne" much so it's all like a spoiler to me.

With this episode, I’m officially washing my hands of this no spoilers rule. It’s irrelevant now. However, deep diving into the weeds of it still needs to go in the comparison topic.

[Chit Chat]

36 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I don't understand wanting to quit the show no matter how they handle what happens next.  It's not like most of us didn't know something like this might happen eventually. 

As I've mentioned before, I was really enjoying YS and was surprised at how likeable George was and what a good father he appeared to be - something that went against the impression I had of him from TBBT.   I figured this show would only go a few years and we'd skip all of the unpleasantness that is referenced from TBBT.  Now that it looks like it will be going for a few more years, if it follows TBBT's storyline, it's just not something I care to watch.   I will leave what we know from TBBT to my imagination.  I don't need to see it played out.  

YS is a show that was fun and silly, and that's what I enjoyed.  I watch comedies for that reason.  If I want something depressing, I'll go turn on the news.   ;) 

[Yeah No]

22 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

As I've mentioned before, I was really enjoying YS and was surprised at how likeable George was and what a good father he appeared to be - something that went against the impression I had of him from TBBT.   I figured this show would only go a few years and we'd skip all of the unpleasantness that is referenced from TBBT.  Now that it looks like it will be going for a few more years, if it follows TBBT's storyline, it's just not something I care to watch.   I will leave what we know from TBBT to my imagination.  I don't need to see it played out.  

YS is a show that was fun and silly, and that's what I enjoyed.  I watch comedies for that reason.  If I want something depressing, I'll go turn on the news.   ;) 

My response to that is, "give it time".  I have faith in this little show to pull a nice resolution out of what now looks like a potentially nasty situation.  The writers are that good, I have that much faith.  To anyone else considering bailing - wait and see, you might be surprised at how they work things out much better than it looks right now.  In the words of my dear late mother, who at moments like this would tell me, "Don't borrow trouble".

Also, the fact that George to this point has been portrayed as such a good father, unlike the impression we got from Sheldon on TBBT is probably a clue that Sheldon's recollections of things are not as accurate as he likes to think they are.  I still think the resolution to this will involve Sheldon's inaccurate recollection being brought out by the show.  

Edited May 15, 2021 by Yeah No

[WinnieWinkle]

3 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

My response to that is, "give it time".  I have faith in this little show to pull a nice resolution out of what now looks like a potentially nasty situation. 

I will be very surprised if anything happens between George and Brenda.  I  have been wrong about cliffhangers before so I wouldn't bet the bank on it but I think it's a teaser and nothing is going to happen between them.  But with George I will have to qualify this with "nothing will happen yet".

My stop watching point for YS will be if they continue down the path they are on where they seem to be making all George's problems Mary's fault.

[Chit Chat]

12 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

My response to that is, "give it time".  I have faith in this little show to pull a nice resolution out of what now looks like a potentially nasty situation. 

I plan on giving it a few more episodes to see which direction it's going.  I'm hoping that the season finale turns out to be much ado about nothing.  Mary & George have some serious issues to work out though, and I hope that storyline doesn't continue to bog down this otherwise funny sitcom.  

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Also, I'm seeing some fairly revealing things posted here regarding TBBT that I thought weren't allowed in this thread.  Personally I wish they were allowed. That show has already aired.

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

 

With this episode, I’m officially washing my hands of this no spoilers rule. It’s irrelevant now. However, deep diving into the weeds of it still needs to go in the comparison topic

This seems reasonable. 👏

—even if it means the long-gone avatars of the Television Without Pity boards moderators are rolling over in their little virtual avatar graves 😆

 

 

 

53 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

plan on giving it a few more episodes to see which direction it's going.  I'm hoping that the season finale turns out to be much ado about nothing

This wasn’t the season finale?

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by shapeshifter
The "expand" settings aren't adjusted to work with quotes within quotes, no matter how short

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Edited 1 hour ago by shapeshifter
The "expand" settings aren't adjusted to work with quotes within quotes, no matter how short

What are the "expand" settings?  I never heard of that.  I highlight the entire exchange, right click, click "quote selection" when that pops up and it pastes both nested quotes into a reply box.

[Rorysmom]

Fantastic episode. Acted well by everyone. Great writing.

[displayname]

I loved it. I don't want them to retcon it. I want to see how they write it while still keeping the humor intact. It could be a beautiful slice-of-life show.

[Chit Chat]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

This wasn’t the season finale?

It was.  I will give the next season a few episodes to improve.

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

even if it means the long-gone avatars of the Television Without Pity boards moderators are rolling over in their little virtual avatar graves

Bwah!  The good old days!

[shapeshifter]

Since:

6 hours ago, kariyaki said:

With this episode, I’m officially washing my hands of this no spoilers rule. It’s irrelevant now. However, deep diving into the weeds of it still needs to go in the comparison topic.

I will just say that even if Adult Sheldon didn't perceive his father being caught "having relations" with another woman until he was 13, that doesn't mean George hadn't started messing around when Sheldon was 11.

Of course, Young 13-year-old Sheldon may have just seen something that appeared to be adulterous, and was really just a woman slipping on a banana peel and landing on top of his father in his bed.

 

*********************************

 

 

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

What are the "expand" settings?  I never heard of that.  I highlight the entire exchange, right click, click "quote selection" when that pops up and it pastes both nested quotes into a reply box.

 Thanks for asking and motivating me to post it on the Bugs thread. 
My printer hates me too. 🤣
The "expand" settings would be in the software used by the board. 
For example, it is necessary to click "expand" to see what karyaki said here. Sometimes it happens even if you (Yeah No) or whomever only posted 2 words, because sometimes there's a big gap that can't be deleted below the inner box text, but that might just be on my phone, and I'm on my laptop now:

6 hours ago, kariyaki said:

7 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Also, I'm seeing some fairly revealing things posted here regarding TBBT that I thought weren't allowed in this thread.  Personally I wish they were allowed. 

With this episode, I’m officially washing my hands of this no spoilers rule. It’s irrelevant now. However, deep diving into the weeds of it still needs to go in the comparison topic.

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Spartan Girl]

Mary is really starting to remind me of Marge Simpson in all the bad ways: a self-righteous churchy that always has to be right— but to be fair to Mary, she did kind of own to to her crap somewhat in that scene with Georgie. That’s more than Marge Simpson has done in the last 20 years.

I agree that the way she railroaded George and Missy was wrong. I get that she was having a bad day but she didn’t even let either of them explain what happened with Missy. She just immediately took Sheldon’s side and blamed everyone else. I hope that next season she finds out that Missy’s boyfriend dumped her and at least apologizes. Sadly I’m not sure if even that will happen.

[Neiman]

My favorite part was the dollar bet and older narrator Sheldon telling us about his underwear. 😂

[WinnieWinkle]

23 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

She just immediately took Sheldon’s side and blamed everyone else.

I must have blinked and missed it but why did Missy tear that picture?  Was it just because Sheldon was in the room and bugging her or had he done something else?  I don't know about anyone else but I found the show moved really fast from scene to scene and it was hard to keep up!

[Chit Chat]

48 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

Was it just because Sheldon was in the room and bugging her or had he done something else?  I don't know about anyone else but I found the show moved really fast from scene to scene and it was hard to keep up!

All I remember is Sheldon going into their room and Missy wanted him to leave.  I can't remember what was said, but it cut away before she tore up the picture, then it went back to Sheldon standing there with 2 halves of a picture.  At least that's how I remember it!

[ams1001]

2 hours ago, ChitChat said:

All I remember is Sheldon going into their room and Missy wanted him to leave.  I can't remember what was said, but it cut away before she tore up the picture, then it went back to Sheldon standing there with 2 halves of a picture.  At least that's how I remember it!

She was also taking down her posters and stuff, which he objected to (because he doesn't like change). I don't recall him actually doing anything to her stuff, though.

[Chit Chat]

7 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I don't recall him actually doing anything to her stuff, though.

I don't think he did, but he probably said something stupid!  I really should keep this show on the DVR for awhile so that I can go back and reference things as they're brought up on the forums!   

I wonder if there will come a time when Connie actually feels bad about all of the insults she hurled George's way.  I wouldn't like it if my Mom said stuff like that about Mr. Chat.  Some of it is humorous, but Connie really seems to hold a grudge against George for getting Mary pregnant.  Note to Connie:  Mary was just as responsible for the outcome of them having sex.   

[WinnieWinkle]

18 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I wonder if there will come a time when Connie actually feels bad about all of the insults she hurled George's way. 

He gives as good as he gets.  I wondered about that comment he shot at her when he referenced that Mary is the only one of her children who talks to her.  I know I haven't seen every episode, and clearly I am not focusing in very closely when I do, but I didn't even remember that other children were ever referenced on YS.  

[kili]

Quote

 

 I don't recall him actually doing anything to her stuff, though.

 

The last we saw, was her looking upset after Sheldon said "You're very irritable. This might be why you're having boy problems." which was a pretty heartless thing to say given the situation.
 

[hoodooznoodooz]

“I told you not to go in there!”

In my opinion, that was good parenting!

[WinnieWinkle]

Mary was wrong to go off at Missy as if the only issue of the evening was her tearing something that belonged to Sheldon, however as the mother of a former drama queen there is no way I would have let my daughter hold the whole family hostage to her crisis.  Not blaming Mary entirely here, she walked in on things and didn't bother to find out what was going on before she jumped on Missy.  IMO anyway Meemaw and George should never had indulged Missy the way they did.  My daughter for one thing absolutely would not have been allowed to play the same damn song at full blast over and over and over!  In her case at that age it would have been the Spice Girls.  No.  Just no.

[hoodooznoodooz]

No matter how dark this gets, I will watch for Missy, Georgie, George and John. I think those actors are so talented.

[Mellowyellow]

This week's episode was unsettling but last week's was so much more sad for me.

I'm going to hang in here because the BBT writers gave me my perfect show! They gave me everything I ever wanted on BBT so I've got faith they can turn this around and give us a tasteful show while still juggling cannon.

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

They gave me everything I ever wanted on BBT so I've got faith they can turn this around and give us a tasteful show while still juggling cannon.

I sure hope so!  It's tough trying to please the BBT fans and the new YS fans.  I would hope that the writers and producers really thought this through before starting YS, rather than making it up as they go in regards to handling certain storylines. 

15 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

He gives as good as he gets.  I wondered about that comment he shot at her when he referenced that Mary is the only one of her children who talks to her.

Usually it seems to be Connie making the snide remarks to George, but that comment George made about her other children was a bit mean.  In his defense though, some of Connie's comments in the past weren't very nice either.    

[Mellowyellow]

20 hours ago, ChitChat said:

I sure hope so!  It's tough trying to please the BBT fans and the new YS fans.  I would hope that the writers and producers really thought this through before starting YS, rather than making it up as they go in regards to handling certain storylines. 

I think it'll be ok!!! Even if they started this show with no plans (not saying that is the case, just hypothesizing) and didn't think it would be this popular, they've proven that they generally make sound writing choices.

Haha it's so weird how much faith I have!!!! Don't let me down writers!!!!!

I say this as someone burned badly by HIMYM and did not recover until BBT!

[Katy M]

On 5/15/2021 at 9:11 PM, WinnieWinkle said:

He gives as good as he gets.  I wondered about that comment he shot at her when he referenced that Mary is the only one of her children who talks to her.  I know I haven't seen every episode, and clearly I am not focusing in very closely when I do, but I didn't even remember that other children were ever referenced on YS.  

They've mentioned 2 brothers early in the series, like within the first 2 or 3 episodes, I don't think ever to be mentioned again.

[Caoimhe]

52 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I say this as someone burned badly by HIMYM and did not recover until BBT!

Lucky for me local TV was a year behind on HIMYM where I was living so I knew before the last season arrived that they'd (IMO) ruined it.  For me the show ended a year early! 

I will continue to record YS and read up on episodes before deciding if I want to watch them or not, there are sure to be some good episodes that deal with topics other than George's infidelity and death.

[Ziggy]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Haha it's so weird how much faith I have!!!! Don't let me down writers!!!!!

I say this as someone burned badly by HIMYM and did not recover until BBT!

I had so much faith in HIMYM.  I still can't watch that show, and I loved that show!!!

Somehow, I also have complete faith here.  They've been little by little planting seeds all season.  Still, this episode kind of hit me.  I thought, wow, they're really going to do it.