S01.E06: An Ocean Inside Me

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

A new deposition threatens Jeanette's case. A discovery causes Cindy's suspicions about her own daughter to reach new heights as her relationship with Greg becomes further strained.

Airs May 18th.

[Chaos Theory]

If  the key fits.....

wow this episode makes Jeanette look really guilty.  I liked that it made Cindy’s doubt about her daughter grow but at the same time it was a reasonable doubt.

”who am I going to date,  one of the Menedez brothers?”   Ha!  

Edited May 19, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[Spartan Girl]

Jeanette may have dodged a bullet with Tanya, but if Cindy comes forward with what she knows, oh man…

Can’t believe Angela and Cindy were able to act like adults and be civil to each other. That was refreshing. But I still don’t see what Angela sees in Greg; I’m pretty sure it was her that “encouraged” him to try harder with Jeanette.

Vince coming out to Jeanette was really well done. It didn’t put the focus on Jeanette’s reaction and instead just had her note that Ben made him happy. I really hope she didn’t out them, unintentionally or not. That would be unforgivable.

Boy, Jeanette really made a Faustian deal for her popularity. Giving up all that she was for abusive fickle jerk Jamie and two mean girl “friends” that ditched right when the going got tough.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[ZeeEnnui]

Angela seems pretty cool (other than the implied infidelity). I can't understand why she'd want the drama of Jeanette's sad dad, and all the scrutiny that comes with being a fake mommy figure to Jeanette. 

This is the first time that I felt badly for Cindy. She's seemed like a caricature of a woman trying to live her high school years again by pushing her daughter. But we see that she had dreams that were bigger than this small town, and her pushing her kids makes sense now. Cindy was so desperate for someone to listen to her. For someone that she could talk to. Daddy's got blinders on. I absolutely understand defending your kids (we all want our parents support) but you have to face facts. At least Cindy wants to get to the bottom of things with Jeanette, and I respect that she's willing to confront her fears. Greg would rather idealize his daughter, and put his head in the sand. Realizing Cindy was right at the end is where we see resentful Greg from 1995 emerge. But I don't feel badly for him. He's that typical "nice guy" who isn't actually as nice as he appears.

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Can’t believe Angela and Cindy were able to act like adults and be civil to each other. That was refreshing. But I still don’t see what Angela sees in Greg; I’m pretty sure it was her that “encouraged” him to try harder with Jeanette.

It was a great scene with two mature women acting like real adults. I also enjoyed the record screech at the end when Cindy told Angela that Greg's been misrepresenting the separation. 

I didn't buy Jeanette's tough grrrl act with desperate cougar mom. (Lay off the corpse paint, lady. That flashback lighting is not kind). Sure blackmailing Tanya about seeing her trying to put the moves on the Red Scrunchy Lover and confessing to him that she should be on Maury not the local news seems like a good idea, but I think it's going to bite Jeanette in her angsty ass. Yes, Jeanette thinks she has a smoking gun but what if someone finds out that she was hiding in the house watching Harris and Tanya. I don't think Cindy will blow Jeanette's spot, but Mallory could and would. Don't count out Vince either. He covered for Jeanette once but we know how she treats her "friends." 

As much as I dislike Mallory, seeing Jeanette diss her to Vince once again showed us how willing she was cut her friends loose. Jeanette is very goofy in 1993, but you can see the subtle switch flips with her where she turns very calculating. That scene where she was going through her closet is the moment where she must've decided to start making herself over.

Trevor is such a good brother. It annoyed me how Jeanette kept begging him not to leave for school. It didn't feel genuine, it felt like a manipulation to keep him there. She kept saying that she was alone, but as we saw in 1994, she still had her dad and Vince on her side. 

Liz Phair "Exile in Guyville" excellent taste in music, Vince!

Edited May 19, 2021 by ZeeEnnui
Nerts are not Nerds. The more you know.

[Ambrosefolly]

40 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Jeanette may have dodged a bullet with Tanya, but if Cindy comes forward with what she knows, oh man…

Can’t believe Angela and Cindy were able to act like adults and be civil to each other. That was refreshing. But I still don’t see what Angela sees in Greg; I’m pretty sure it was her that “encouraged” him to try harder with Jeanette.

Vince coming out to Jeanette was really well done. It didn’t put the focus on Jeanette’s reaction and instead just had her note that Ben made him happy. I really hope she didn’t out them, unintentionally or not. That would be unforgivable.

Boy, Jeanette really made a Faustian deal for her popularity. Giving up all that she was for abusive fickle jerk Jamie and two mean girl “friends” that ditched right when the going got tough.

The only time I liked Tennille Peterson is when she teared up when she announced that they found Kate alive. Other than that her and her friend seem pretty awful. I am not entirely surprised that Kate seemed to dumped them. 

Vince and Derek are still good eggs trying to deal with the crazy that's happening. I liked that they fleshed out the depth of their relationship when she covered for Vince, though it fed into Jeanette's need for adrenaline .  I also liked that Vince shut down Jeanette when she tried to talk about Mallory behind her back (even if I agreed with the sentiment, as Mallory does seems controlling, even if she is well-meaning). I wish I had that resolve when I was a teenager. 

Jeanette does look shady, but the Petersons also come across as super opportunistic, willing to lie if it can rise their status.  

It looks like Cindy and Greg marriage didn't break down due to infidelity but to Greg refusing to hear out Cindy about Jeanette. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Ambrosefolly

[KaveDweller]

Jeanette was super shady in this episode.

Tanya was pretty shady herself. Giving an interview about dating Martin Harris just to get her 15-minutes of fame? I can buy she would change her story based on Jeanette's threat. If Jeanette loses her lawsuit because Tanya told what she knew about Jeanette breaking into Harris's house, she'd have nothing to lose and could tell all what she heard. I missed some of what Tanya was telling Martin, but it sounded like she lied about who Tenille's father is to get child support? The paternity part is easily provable and would cost her money, plus hurt her kid.

I really liked the scene with Cindy and Angela. Very mature and against stereotypes. And now I guess we know where Cindy has been, flying around in her new career. Good for her.

[LittleIggy]

@ZeeEnnui Jeanette loved a card game called Nerts not Nerds candy.

Guess I’m the only one who likes Jeanette. I don’t find her evil based on what we have seen so far. 
I like Mallory only when she is Kate’s friend.

[ZeeEnnui]

21 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

@ZeeEnnui Jeanette loved a card game called Nerts not Nerds candy.

Guess I’m the only one who likes Jeanette. I don’t find her evil based on what we have seen so far. 
I like Mallory only when she is Kate’s friend.

Haha. My bad. I guess I misheard. Nerts sounds about as lame as Nerds so...

[Cranberry]

This episode made me like Jeanette a little more, especially when she was so cool about Vince's coming out. That was a big deal then -- I went to high school in the 90s, and "gay" was constantly thrown around as an insult. The one out queer kid I knew of in the entire school was an object of ridicule. It wasn't a good time. It was also good of her to take the fall for him when he stole the CD -- as a Black boy, he would have gotten in a lot more trouble than she did. (It wasn't 100% altruistic as she enjoyed the rush, but she only had a second to think when the alarm went off, and her first instinct was to protect her friend.) 

We also saw a little more of Jeanette's former goofy personality when she was playing cards with Vince and her dad and when she was joking about dating Vince (I'm going to assume she hasn't outed him between 94 and 95 or she wouldn't be able to joke like that without it being a sore spot). I'm still side-eyeing her for getting a rush out of stealing, for being almost excited about badmouthing Mallory, and for how harshly she blackmailed that mom, but I still think she's just an obsessive, mostly selfish, status-seeking teenager and not someone who would knowingly leave a kidnapped girl trapped in a basement.

[mamadrama]

I still think that all the stuff about Jeanette lying, getting in trouble, etc is just one red herring after another. It all LOOKS bad but she's still telling the truth about not seeing Kate.

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

@ZeeEnnui Jeanette loved a card game called Nerts not Nerds candy.

Guess I’m the only one who likes Jeanette. I don’t find her evil based on what we have seen so far. 
I like Mallory only when she is Kate’s friend.

I don’t think she’s exactly evil either, though we’ve seen her do some shady things. It would be a cruel irony that she’s telling the truth about Kate, because all the other lying she’s done had basically destroyed her life. Had she been honest with Cindy about the key, she might have still had her support (even if breaking into Harris’ house made her look bad). But the lying makes her look worse.

[mandymax]

I noticed that Jeannette was wearing Kate's scrunchie when she went to Martin's house and hid in the closet.

And while I liked the scene with Angela and Cindy, something about it made me distrustful of Cindy.  I was humorously relieved when I saw Angela drinking out of a bottle because I had the thought that Cindy would spike her drink and try to kill her.

Beyond that, I don't feel like we're any closer to knowing for certain what happened.  How many episodes left?  Four?  They have a LOT to cram into four episodes!

[gesundheit]

12 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

Angela seems pretty cool (other than the implied infidelity). I can't understand why she'd want the drama of Jeanette's sad dad, and all the scrutiny that comes with being a fake mommy figure to Jeanette. 

This is the first time that I felt badly for Cindy. She's seemed like a caricature of a woman trying to live her high school years again by pushing her daughter. But we see that she had dreams that were bigger than this small town, and her pushing her kids makes sense now. Cindy was so desperate for someone to listen to her. For someone that she could talk to. Daddy's got blinders on. I absolutely understand defending your kids (we all want our parents support) but you have to face facts. At least Cindy wants to get to the bottom of things with Jeanette, and I respect that she's willing to confront her fears. Greg would rather idealize his daughter, and put his head in the sand. Realizing Cindy was right at the end is where we see resentful Greg from 1995 emerge. But I don't feel badly for him. He's that typical "nice guy" who isn't actually as nice as he appears.

Yeah, I really liked what they did with Cindy in this episode, gave her more humanity and made her feel more like a 3-dimensional adult than a caricature. (Tanya, on the other hand...)

The whole thing is really confusing because what Kate accused Jeanette of obviously didn't stick, it seems to me that it's some sort of accessory crime. And one would think they would've looked into it and found no evidence to support the claim (or not enough to hold up legally), so that got dropped but the whole town still thinks Jeanette did it. I get that part. But I feel like it would have to be disproven to a certain point before Jeanette would have enough of a civil case to then sue the Wallis family for it, so that's the bit that's confusing. Instead they still don't seem to have actually determined what happened in any way, or even made strides toward it. It's as if there was no investigation at all, yet people are still swinging by the house on their downtime to poke around. The line from the first year to the second is pretty clear but the line from the second to the third is where I really want answers.

[LittleIggy]

I loved Jeanette blackmailing that nasty mom. She deserved it. 
Something I don’t get is why Kate, who seems like a nice person, was besties with those two shallow mean girls.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

Angela seems pretty cool (other than the implied infidelity). I can't understand why she'd want the drama of Jeanette's sad dad, and all the scrutiny that comes with being a fake mommy figure to Jeanette. 

Realizing Cindy was right at the end is where we see resentful Greg from 1995 emerge. But I don't feel badly for him. He's that typical "nice guy" who isn't actually as nice as he appears.

I didn't buy Jeanette's tough grrrl act with desperate cougar mom.

As much as I dislike Mallory, seeing Jeanette diss her to Vince once again showed us how willing she was cut her friends loose. Jeanette is very goofy in 1993, but you can see the subtle switch flips with her where she turns very calculating. That scene where she was going through her closet is the moment where she must've decided to start making herself over.

This episode seemed to clarify that Greg started dating Angela after Cindy left - no infidelity after all. As for why she'd be into Greg, a baffling number of women can't resist a fixer upper. I think tragedy porn appeals to a lot of people's savior complexes, particularly women, who are often socialized to pity and nurture men through trauma. Look at all the men on Dateline/any ID show who find second wives/girlfriends after spinning a sad tale about the first wife's "accident" or disappearance. Most often, their current partners will even double down on defending them because "that's not the man they know!" and they were always nice to them, so therefore could never be capable of violence. Men get the benefit of the doubt long after they deserve it even if it defies facts and logic. In Angela's case, I think she believes that if she can just support (coddle) Greg enough and run interference between him and Jeanette, she can restore him to the man he used to be, or at least the man she was initially attracted to before he became a mopey, self-pitying jackass.

I just don't like Greg as a character. Kate's mom is also a jerk, but her motivations are at least compelling. Greg is just a dick who feels sorry for himself and it's getting repetitive.

Jeanette's witness intimidation made me roll my eyes. Wouldn't her accusation of paternity fraud also be hearsay? I guess a paternity test isn't/wasn't required for child support payments (...okay?), so would the claim of a vengeful teen have any legal weight in terms of mandating one? Moving on from applying logic there, as it's an obvious fanfic moment.

Jeanette's transformation (devolution) mirrors that of Dory in Search Party - insecure girl (woman) is bored with her own life, becomes addicted to the adrenaline rush of crime/investigation, and transforms into an unrecognizable narcissist before crashing back to earth, down to the dystopian haircuts post-ego reckoning, lol. This show is basically a YA version of Search Party without the satire.

10 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I really liked the scene with Cindy and Angela. Very mature and against stereotypes. And now I guess we know where Cindy has been, flying around in her new career. Good for her.

It was a rare win for Cindy and I appreciate that the writers gave her enough agency to leave the marriage and pursue her dreams, rather than the cliche "disillusioned alcoholic mom" decline hinted at in earlier scenes.

Other thoughts: I don't buy Jaime and Jeanette starting to bond in "mall jail." Kate is nice enough to overlook social status, but it's a stretch to me that Jaime would extend similar kindness to 1993 Jeanette. He seems very self and image obsessed. I have a hard time believing that the dude who went on to punch her and gaslight Kate about her foggy trauma memory would be super warm and friendly towards Geek Jeanette.

The writers are smart to highlight Jeanette's friendship with Vince and loving acceptance of his sexuality, which is thus far her sole redeeming quality. Overall, I'm not enjoying Jeanette-centric episodes (which are also dragging compared to Kate's imo) and am always impatient to return to Kate's POV.

[CrazyDog]

Interesting episode, and I guess I'm in the minority of still liking Jeannette (for the most part), and having some sympathy for her. She is definitely a flawed character - she lies way too easily, has a desperate, obsessive side, and obviously also has a wild side that likes the thrill of doing illegal things, but she does have redeeming qualities, like her friendship with Vincent and her heartbreak over her parents losing faith in her.

She's been no princess through the series, but I still cringe at her dad's comments in the previous episodes - telling Angela she might be a sociopath, and that she hasn't hurt anyone...to his knowledge. Damn. Who wouldn't put up walls after hearing that, from your beloved dad.

This episode showcased Cindy's doubts about her daughter, but still wanting to deal with whatever the truth may be vs. Greg's complete denial to his almost hatred of Jeannette in 1995. Seems like he couldn't deal with his daughter being a flawed human being. Yeah, he's been dealing with Jeannette's bitterness (hey, a teenager!), and all of the fallout of standing by her in their town, but he's apparently caused Jeannette the same trauma that her mother did, and maybe even more.

It was nice to learn again that Cindy does want to reconnect with Jeannette.

I am not following all the timelines, but Cindy left Greg apparently for a temporary period - we don't know the details past that. Did Greg cheat before their marriage was "officially" over? I like Angela too though, and she's good for Jeannette.

4 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Other thoughts: I don't buy Jaime and Jeanette starting to bond in "mall jail." Kate is nice enough to overlook social status, but it's a stretch to me that Jaime would extend similar kindness to 1993 Jeanette. He seems very self and image obsessed. I have a hard time believing that the dude who went on to punch her and gaslight Kate about her foggy trauma memory would be super warm and friendly towards Geek Jeanette.

I thought the same. That didn't seem true to his character in 1993.

The scene with Jeannette in Martin's house was nuts! I can't believe she set off the stereo, and still escaped, lol. And Tenille's mom didn't think that might come up later when she wanted to accuse Jeannette? Yeah, Jeannette spilling what she heard about the paternity might be hearsay, but again, imagine the gossip in the small town. And imagine that getting back to Tennille's dad, who might just have some questions.

I still find Jeannette the most interesting. Kate is too, but her story seems somewhat settled. She was abducted, suffered trauma by Martin, and it seems that we'll find out that Martin gaslit her during her abduction. I'm not really expecting many surprises from Kate's side, unless we find out someone else was involved. 

Kate is a victim. The question is - is Jeannette really a villain.

4 hours ago, gesundheit said:

The whole thing is really confusing because what Kate accused Jeanette of obviously didn't stick, it seems to me that it's some sort of accessory crime. And one would think they would've looked into it and found no evidence to support the claim (or not enough to hold up legally), so that got dropped but the whole town still thinks Jeanette did it. I get that part. But I feel like it would have to be disproven to a certain point before Jeanette would have enough of a civil case to then sue the Wallis family for it, so that's the bit that's confusing. Instead they still don't seem to have actually determined what happened in any way, or even made strides toward it. 

Yes, Jeannette filing a defamation case (and her dad paying big bucks for), would seem to imply that she/they think they can win, or at least get her side told. Going to court is going to drag out all the dirt. There can't have been any solid evidence that what Kate said was true, yet Jeannette is public enemy #1, including her being stalked by her ex bf with a gun outside her house. It's a weird discrepancy.

This is a great series, but at this point, I'm not expecting any super crazy twists at the end. Both girls have secrets that add layers to their characters, but I don't think either will reveal them to be hiding anything major. It will be more a reveal of perceptions.

Edited May 19, 2021 by CrazyDog

[CharethCutestory]

I'm leaning more towards the theory that Angela had a past with Harris after his comment about no shared kids and assets with his ex-girlfriend. Maybe the ex is Angela? She has to tie into things before we first meet her and be more than Greg's post marriage girlfriend and a friend to Jeannette. Cindy definitely came there to feel her out and I'm not sure I totally buy her warm and welcoming act. I'm still on the fence about Cindy. Her intuition on Jeannette lying about the house was correct but then again she bailed on her. Or did she? Her "is that what he told you?" to Angela suggests other wise. Maybe she went to her sisters to clear her head for a minute and Greg turned Jeannette against her? I'm really interested to see exactly what went down there. To ditch your daughter when she needs you most, even if she is being shady and because you don't want to be a social pariah, would be pretty unforgivable.  

I had assumed Jeannette and Jamie had some interaction before Jeannette became popular and they started dating. That he at least knew her and interacted with her. I wouldn't be surprised if there are one or two more scenes like the mall jail one before Kate goes missing to establish that they always had a spark between them. 

And Jeannette kept the scrunchie and is wearing it that little weirdo hahah That is a bit much.

 

[KaveDweller]

12 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I still think that all the stuff about Jeanette lying, getting in trouble, etc is just one red herring after another. It all LOOKS bad but she's still telling the truth about not seeing Kate.

I agree, I think she's telling the truth about Kate. If this was as simple as Kate is the victim and Jeanette is the villian it would be a total waste.

5 hours ago, gesundheit said:

Yeah, I really liked what they did with Cindy in this episode, gave her more humanity and made her feel more like a 3-dimensional adult than a caricature. (Tanya, on the other hand...)

The whole thing is really confusing because what Kate accused Jeanette of obviously didn't stick, it seems to me that it's some sort of accessory crime. And one would think they would've looked into it and found no evidence to support the claim (or not enough to hold up legally), so that got dropped but the whole town still thinks Jeanette did it. I get that part. But I feel like it would have to be disproven to a certain point before Jeanette would have enough of a civil case to then sue the Wallis family for it, so that's the bit that's confusing. Instead they still don't seem to have actually determined what happened in any way, or even made strides toward it. It's as if there was no investigation at all, yet people are still swinging by the house on their downtime to poke around. The line from the first year to the second is pretty clear but the line from the second to the third is where I really want answers.

Yes, I think it would have to be disproven. I am not a lawyer, but I took one communication law class in college, and Google tells me I am remember this right: To win a defamation, you need to prove the person made a false statement about you. A true statement isn't defamation and the burden of proof is on the plaintiff. In the case of public figures (which doesn't apply here), you also have to prove that the defendant knew it was a false statement. I really don't see this case going to trial in real life. It is almost impossible to prove that Jeanette never saw Kate in the basement. If the case did move forward, I would think the defendant would offer a settlement to make it go away and not have to pay the lawyer fees.

Now this is all happening on TV, so actual legal process and legalities don't really matter. I think they are going to make it all about Jeanette vs Kate and who do you believe.

4 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Jeanette's witness intimidation made me roll my eyes. Wouldn't her accusation of paternity fraud also be hearsay? I guess a paternity test isn't/wasn't required for child support payments (...okay?), so would the claim of a vengeful teen have any legal weight in terms of mandating one? Moving on from applying logic there, as it's an obvious fanfic moment.

Yes, it would be hearsay. But the difference is, if Tanya says she saw Jeanette in Martin's house, Jeanette could say it was a lie and no one would know be able to verify who is telling the truth. If Jeanette says Tanya is lying about paternity, the guy paying child support would (most likely) get a DNA test.

[Anela]

The terrible two confirmed that Jeanette’s Mum was a “has-been” in the horrible social circles in that town.  I like that her mother is being nice to Angela.  
 

I wish we got two episodes every week, instead of one.  

[Anela]

17 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

@ZeeEnnui Jeanette loved a card game called Nerts not Nerds candy.

Guess I’m the only one who likes Jeanette. I don’t find her evil based on what we have seen so far. 
I like Mallory only when she is Kate’s friend.

You aren’t the only one. 
 

also, I guess in the second year, in this episode, Kate had been kidnapped.  I was thinking, after this build-up, expecting a different outcome, the real twist would be that she is guilty.  I hope not, and I wonder who Kate saw (if she isn’t lying).  

[Chaos Theory]

I think Greg is one of those guys who comes  off as charming when you first meet him but once you put in a fair amount of energy just kind of stops trying.  So here you are trying to look pretty for him or maybe want to do something new and exciting like say Cindy wanting to start a new career that might excite her and show her possibly wayward daughter something but all he sees is that it would be a lot of work for him.  

This episode I actually felt for Cindy who just wanted someone to listen to her, damn it.   It’s ironic the first genuine conversation she had was in 1995 with Angela.  

Edited May 20, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[JenE4]

When Jeanette walks into “mall jail” and sees Jamie, she quickly pulls Kate’s  scrunchy out of her hair. This is pretty much the only time we’ve seen her feel guilty or embarrassed by her actions. I mean, she’s even still traipsing around with the stolen shirt on her waist (until throwing them back at Tenille’s mom 2 years later, with the tag still on one of the shirts). She has a slight flash of remorse across her face in ‘94 when Cindy was asking whether she’s ever been in Martin’s house, but she stuck to her story—as obvious as it was to Mom that she was lying.

Speaking of liars, what an odd storyline with Tenille’s mom throwing herself at Martin and then going on TV to lie that he was the aggressor, then involving herself in the court case. I mean, I guess that’s not as bad as lying about your child’s paternity, but just all around a strange character to introduce. It’s not that believable to think that a pedophile interested in kidnapping a 16 year old would nearly have also “kidnapped” someone in their late 40s! But we have no shortage in this town of middle-aged moms obsessed with their glory days of high school and still hoping to be the hottest girl on the block. But I suppose the point was to show there’s another life Jeanette is willing to destroy to save her own; blackmail comes too easy to her.

One moment Jeanette is talking with Jamie, and the next she’s suddenly throwing away all of her clothes, and saying her old clothes aren’t her anymore. I guess the scrunchie mojo rubbed off. She’s also blaming Mallory for making them do bad things, but she was thrilled to get caught at the mall, excited to tell Jamie how she does bad things, and on her own went right back to break into Martin’s house.

Both Jeanette and Cindy are lonely and have no one to talk to. They both want to confide in Derek, but he’s not interested in hearing it. Greg is checked out, too. Unfortunately they, Jeanette and Cindy, don’t seem to trust each other. Yet, somehow Angela is there to listen to each of them. The old bartender is a good listener trope? So, Cindy had big dreams of being a flight attendant. Now I guess that’s why her high school fixation was such a big storyline because she’s literally just done NOTHING in 20 years but sitting around waiting for her kids to blossom...didn’t even “show them how to blossom” whatever the hell that means, lol. So Cindy just decided to give up on being a wife and mom to “fly the friendly skies” and yet somehow told Angela that she didn’t leave the marriage?? Unless she was just going to her sister’s for a few days, and maybe somehow Greg is going to turn it around on Cindy for “ruining” their family by making him see the truth about Jeanette?

Edited May 20, 2021 by JenE4

[mamadrama]

6 hours ago, CrazyDog said:

This is a great series, but at this point, I'm not expecting any super crazy twists at the end. Both girls have secrets that add layers to their characters, but I don't think either will reveal them to be hiding anything major. It will be more a reveal of perceptions.

That's what I think, too. I don't think this series is a mystery, per se, but a story about how an abduction affected an entire town. The payoff, or twist, will be that Martin was the only villain but that there were many victims. Anything else that other characters might have done wasn't done out of malicious intent. 

[BingeyKohan]

Here’s what kind of bugs me about the Tenille’s Mom subplot: all the time Kate was missing it never occurred to her, hmm, a single man with a giant house where I once randomly found a teenage girl in the closet — she never casually mentioned this oddity to anyone where they might suspect Martin? I know she had her own secret to fear getting out but she also loved attention. She could have solved the whole thing just with gossip. At the least I would think she would want to know from Jeanette what the hell was going on knowing that her own daughter was around Martin at school. In her case putting 2 and 2 together wouldn’t have added up to ‘if Jeanette had been there once she was probably there again’ — it would have added up to ‘Martin is a creep and they were probably involved, gross.’

 

[mamadrama]

14 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

Here’s what kind of bugs me about the Tenille’s Mom subplot: all the time Kate was missing it never occurred to her, hmm, a single man with a giant house where I once randomly found a teenage girl in the closet — she never casually mentioned this oddity to anyone where they might suspect Martin? I know she had her own secret to fear getting out but she also loved attention. She could have solved the whole thing just with gossip. At the least I would think she would want to know from Jeanette what the hell was going on knowing that her own daughter was around Martin at school. In her case putting 2 and 2 together wouldn’t have added up to ‘if Jeanette had been there once she was probably there again’ — it would have added up to ‘Martin is a creep and they were probably involved, gross.’

 

That bothered me as well. I don't mind surprises but that came from out of left field without any breadcrumbs to follow back.

Here's my other issue...

There are only a couple of episodes left. I feel like the show took way too long getting to Martin and his shenanigans. He's only appeared a handful of times. I realize that this is a show about the aftermath, but I'm afraid they're just going to throw a shit ton of stuff at us in the last episode and call it a day.

I still like it, though.

[meatball77]

We still don't know exactly why Jeanette sued.  How bad Kate must have acted for Jeanette to be suing her and to have enough evidence that it could go forward to trial.

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, mamadrama said:

... I'm afraid they're just going to throw a shit ton of stuff at us in the last episode and call it a day.

I'm afraid they're not going to throw anything at us because they want another season lol. I still don't think we have any confirmation either way on if this is a limited series or not. IMO it does not appear to be one, so I'm not expecting many answers in the finale.

[peachmangosteen]

Well then, never mind what I just said lol:

Quote

With a series like this, viewers often wonder when their questions will be answered. Is this a story that you envision can go beyond season 1 with all the twists and turns that are possible?

We are exploring how to move forward into season 2 potentially. But by the end of season 1 you will get everything answered. We went out of our way to make sure we delivered a satisfying ending. We don’t want to string people along forever. Every clue will be answered and the truth will be revealed.

Is there anything that you can tease about what you’re most looking forward to viewers seeing in the upcoming episodes?

The finale is amazing. You actually get to learn the truth. I think the satisfaction the viewers will get in episode 10 is going to have everyone’s jaw on the floor.

Source

[itsweird]

24 minutes ago, meatball77 said:

We still don't know exactly why Jeanette sued.  How bad Kate must have acted for Jeanette to be suing her and to have enough evidence that it could go forward to trial.

I thought it was defamation. 

[Chaos Theory]

Its a defamation lawsuit.  Kate goes in front of every camera and says Jeanette knew Martin was holding her in his basement turning Jeanette into the town Pariah.   Jeanette is suing Kate calling her a liar.  It’s coming down to a she said/she said story.      What happens when you publicly accuse someone of something and can’t prove it?   We see these stories all the time.  Who do you believe?  The accuser or the accused when there is zero actual proof either way?   

Edited May 20, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[dariafan]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

If a defamation lawsuit.  Kate goes in front of every camera and says Jeanette knew Martin was holding her in his basement turning Jeanette into the town Pariah.   Jeanette is suing Kate calling her a liar.  It’s coming down to a she said/she said story.      What happens when you publicly accuse someone of something and can’t prove it?   We see these stories all the time.  Who do you believe?  The accuser or the accused when there is zero actual proof either way?   

Especially when Kate went on tv and blamed Jeanette, she started by saying against legal advice

[tennisgurl]

Another "Jeanette is sketchy" episode with the key to Martin's house taped to the bottom of her treasure trove of secrets, even though I am still pretty sure she isn't guilty of leaving Kate in the basement. They are doing a good job at showing that Jeanette has a side that is comfortable keeping secrets, lying, and tossing people under the bus to get what she wants or just because she's annoyed with them, but also that a lot of that can just be her being an insecure teenager who makes bad choices but isn't the monster people say she is. She was supportive right away of Vincent's sexuality, which was a pretty big deal in small town Texas in the early 90s, and she really does seem heartbroken over her broken family in 1995. Really, her most positive relationship seems to be with Vincent, who she always cares about and has his back and their relationship seems to be pretty healthy in all three summers, even the ones where they aren't close anymore. Jeanette is also really close with Derek, but in a bit more of a passive aggressive way this week, especially her begging him not to leave for college. I can understand why she wants him around as the whole town, and even her mom, have turned against her, but its really not fair to lay that all on him when he is trying to move on to the next stage of his life and its sucks that she was guilting him about it. I also thought that it was understandable that he really didn't want to talk with his mom about her theories about Jeanette, I can see why an eighteen year old wouldn't want to talk about another sibling with a parent like that. Derek is the most well adjusted person in the family, and has been stuck playing mediator throughout the whole thing (and is still apparently doing that in 95) no wonder he's excited to get some distance, that's a lot to put on a teenager. 

Jeanette and Kate episodes are so different. We know more or less who Kate is, that she was a sweet kid who was victimized by a monster and is now dealing with that trauma, the big question is whether or not she did see Jeanette or not. Jeanette's episodes are much more mysterious, as we try to figure out who Jeanette really is and what she did or did not do. We also got a lot more information about Cindy, who has a lot more going on then just the drunk mom who left the family that we have seen in hints before. I feel for her and wanting to have someone to talk to and her horror over what is happening to her family, and her even worse horror that Jeanette might have done the terrible thing she was accused of (and she did lie to her about the key) and of course her feelings of being dissatisfied with her life. Her talk with Angela at the bar was nice, I am glad that they were so civil and understand with each other. I am confused by Cindy being like "is that what he told you" about her leaving, is that not what happened? Its clear that the separation was very complicated and that both Greg and Cindy made mistakes, and that maybe this has brought a lot of issues that they were already having up to the forefront and exploded, but she did leave to go live with her sister. Did she try to come back and Jeanette and Greg told her to stay away? It sounds like she took this opportunity to go chase her flight attendant dreams, so she did leave, it was clearly her idea to go. Did she only mean to leave for a a little bit but then Greg filed for divorce? She certainly had her reasons but she was the one who left. Of course you could say that Greg left too, just emotionally and not physically. Cindy left town but Greg is too busy stewing in bitterness to be any real presence in the house. 

[BingeyKohan]

surely there is no way we're going to see a trial this season. They could spend an entire episode just on jury selection (asking and either accepting or rejecting them based on what they know about the case or perceive about young women like Jeanette and Kate in general, to play with more of the perception vs reality theme) I guess it could go to mediation or only before a judge to speed things along but I hope we don't waste time inside a courtroom.

[cardigirl]

This show is going to have to do a lot to redeem Jeanette into a likeable person by season's end for me. 

[izabella]

14 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

surely there is no way we're going to see a trial this season. They could spend an entire episode just on jury selection (asking and either accepting or rejecting them based on what they know about the case or perceive about young women like Jeanette and Kate in general, to play with more of the perception vs reality theme) I guess it could go to mediation or only before a judge to speed things along but I hope we don't waste time inside a courtroom.

I have not been expecting any trial.  Anyone can file a case, but a judge actually holding a trial over this seems ridiculous and like it would get thrown out of court if it even made it that far.

What happened with the Annabelle thing?  Did I miss something or misunderstand?  Was Annabelle just a fictitious name Kate was using to tell her campfire story and make people squirm about what happened to her?  Or was she an alter-ego or something else?  Did we hear any more about that?  I'm so confused.

[calliope1975]

10 minutes ago, izabella said:

What happened with the Annabelle thing?

Nothing yet. Perhaps it will be explained in the next ep. 

The main thing I have learned from this show is to immediately change all my locks if I buy a house. Martin is a garbage person who deserves to rot in hell, but damn is it creepy to see Jeanette just pop in to his place whenever she feels like it.

I'm still intrigued by Jeannette even though I can't say I like her. She does care about Vincent, and I concur that being gay in the 90's in a small Texas town would have been difficult. I don't remember much of my high school graduation in '94, but the one thing I will never forget is several people yelling the F word when Jason (who eventually came out) crossed the stage. I can't imagine what a terrible feeling that was for him, and I was in a suburb of Fort Worth. 

[twoods]

I honestly don’t blame Jeanette’s parents for losing faith in her and not believing her. She had a key to Martin’s house and she lied repeatedly about it. What else are they supposed to think? Now she’s threatening people to not tell the truth so it makes her look guilty as hell. I’m sure they won’t go this route because she seems genuinely confused why Kate would tell the police she saw her, but she’s not completely innocent as well. 

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I am confused by Cindy being like "is that what he told you" about her leaving, is that not what happened? Its clear that the separation was very complicated and that both Greg and Cindy made mistakes, and that maybe this has brought a lot of issues that they were already having up to the forefront and exploded, but she did leave to go live with her sister. Did she try to come back and Jeanette and Greg told her to stay away? It sounds like she took this opportunity to go chase her flight attendant dreams, so she did leave, it was clearly her idea to go. Did she only mean to leave for a a little bit but then Greg filed for divorce? She certainly had her reasons but she was the one who left. Of course you could say that Greg left too, just emotionally and not physically. Cindy left town but Greg is too busy stewing in bitterness to be any real presence in the house. 

My impression from what we saw in this episode is that Cindy left to go to her sister's, but expressly stated it was temporary.  We don't know how it progressed from there.  But it wouldn't be the first time one partner said they needed some time and the other person either immediately or when the "taking some time" lasted too long for their interpretation of temporary to feel like it's over and they just haven't said the words while the other person is still under the impression that the situation is not settled. So, they may both be telling the truth as they viewed it.  She felt like he gave up and took the earliest opportunity to end the marriage while she still wanted to come back and he saw her leaving for her sister's as abandoning him.

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I have not been expecting any trial.  Anyone can file a case, but a judge actually holding a trial over this seems ridiculous and like it would get thrown out of court if it even made it that far.

I don't handle defamation suits nor practice in Texas, but I'm not sure there isn't at least a colorable case.  The harm to reputation is obvious.  Under CA law, failing to use reasonable care to confirm the truth or falsity of a statement is the standard for defamation.  I don't know how that works, but since Kate said making the statement was against the advice of counsel, it seems that someone told her she shouldn't say it if she could not prove it.  And Kate didn't just say it, she said it on TV for the whole of their community (country?) to see. I'm not even sure if Kate's sincere but erroneous belief would be enough to be a defense. 

Truth of the statement is an absolute defense and the civil standard is lower than criminal.  But the only corroborating evidence is a cheap mall kiosk necklace that could be anyone's or even Jeanette's but found and dropped by someone else. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by RachelKM

[waving feather]

I always prefer the Kate episodes to Jeanette's and this is no different. I think because even though Kate also went through different personality changes from '93 to '95, I still understand who she is as a person. For Jeanette, I can't get a grasp on who she is. It's not even the guilty/not guilty thing. I don't think she's guilty of what Kate accused her of. But she acts different each scene. They could have made the different layers of her personality more organic and seamless. But it's always, this scene we have Sweet!Jeanette!, then Creepy!Jeanette, then Menacing!Jeanette!. Sometimes within the same time period. Unless she is some kind of a psychopath, it doesn't add up.

Nothing much happened to move the plot forward as well. It's sort of a filler episode and I probably feel that way because Jeanette's parents drama (including her dad new gf) is not that entertaining to me.

I have started to like Mallory. She's brash and a bit much to handle but at least she appears more trustworthy and straightforward than Jeanette.

[izabella]

It is my understanding that if Jeanette cannot prove that Kate's statement is false, Jeannette has no defamation/slander case. 

[RachelKM]

50 minutes ago, izabella said:

It is my understanding that if Jeanette cannot prove that Kate's statement is false, Jeannette has no defamation/slander case. 

Again, I don't know Texas law.  But there is a common law principal of presumption of falsity of a defamatory statement  which generally holds except in the cases based on of matters of "public concern."  In other words, a private citizen accused of something that does not involve a matter that affects the public gets the benefit of a presumption that a statement that is harmful is false.  That is why truth is a defense.  Because it counters the presumption. 

[TVMovieBuff]

Now Martin Harris. Either he doesn't go for females at all, or he just likes jailbait.  He doesn't seem to go for guys, so he could just be scared of women in general. Keeping Kate's scrunchie shows he had something for her.

Since he is dead, will we ever know for sure?

[Bobcatkitten]

A question about the bar scene. The wife said to Angela, "oh that's what he told you?" like it was wrong. But in the flashback she does indeed leave him. So color me confused. 

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, Bobcatkitten said:

A question about the bar scene. The wife said to Angela, "oh that's what he told you?" like it was wrong. But in the flashback she does indeed leave him. So color me confused. 

I responded to this idea in a prior post, but I'll say it more simply here.  It appears that Cindy intended to go to her sister's for some time to clear her head and get some support that she felt she needed.  But she said it wasn't permanent and that she was coming back.  So, it seems as though Cindy didn't intend to end the marriage. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by RachelKM

[mamadrama]

11 hours ago, TVMovieBuff said:

Now Martin Harris. Either he doesn't go for females at all, or he just likes jailbait.  He doesn't seem to go for guys, so he could just be scared of women in general. Keeping Kate's scrunchie shows he had something for her.

Since he is dead, will we ever know for sure?

Since he locked a teenager up in his basement for months I think it's safe to say that he doesn't have healthy feelings about love or dating in general. 

[BingeyKohan]

15 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

A question about the bar scene. The wife said to Angela, "oh that's what he told you?" like it was wrong. But in the flashback she does indeed leave him. So color me confused. 

My take on this is that it's sort of like that hint that Kate's mom said something really bad to her the last time she saw her before the disappearance. I thought we were going to find that out quickly but we actually still haven't. So I think they will eventually show us the actual dissolution of the marriage.

[Blue Plastic]

I’m po’d that we haven’t gotten any further information about “Annabelle” after it was teased so heavily two episodes ago. This episode and the previous one have felt like filler to me.

I’m with others who said they didn’t think Janette was downright “evil” or psycho. I’m thinking she’s just a selfish, immature teen who has done some pretty dangerous/bad stuff for one so young but still has a chance to grow out of it. OTOH, she could turn out to be just a horrible person. I’m along for the ride.

I disliked Janette the most when she badgered her brother not to go away for college. Still, I could see myself being that selfish at that age.

Not sure why Janette is so enthralled by the sicko vice principal’s house. She seems to get a kick out of doing risky things, but why his house when there’s other things she could be doing, more stores to shoplift from, whatever?  A misguided crush?

Didn’t Janette get the house key from her dad’s real estate office?  Why didn’t he ever notice it was gone?

Really loved the ending sequence with Mom using the key to unlock the door in 1994 and then morphing to Dad entering the house in 1995.

Also liked the mom’s character getting a little more filled out. It kind of bugged me that she jumped to assuming Janette was “guilty” based on the necklace, but now we know she did have a thought process behind it, was checking into things, and was concerned she hadn’t done enough to guide Janette as she “blossomed.”

[JenE4]

57 minutes ago, Blue Plastic said:

I’m po’d that we haven’t gotten any further information about “Annabelle” after it was teased so heavily two episodes ago. This episode and the previous one have felt like filler to me.

I’m with others who said they didn’t think Janette was downright “evil” or psycho. I’m thinking she’s just a selfish, immature teen who has done some pretty dangerous/bad stuff for one so young but still has a chance to grow out of it. OTOH, she could turn out to be just a horrible person. I’m along for the ride.

I disliked Janette the most when she badgered her brother not to go away for college. Still, I could see myself being that selfish at that age.

Not sure why Janette is so enthralled by the sicko vice principal’s house. She seems to get a kick out of doing risky things, but why his house when there’s other things she could be doing, more stores to shoplift from, whatever?  A misguided crush?

Didn’t Janette get the house key from her dad’s real estate office?  Why didn’t he ever notice it was gone?

Really loved the ending sequence with Mom using the key to unlock the door in 1994 and then morphing to Dad entering the house in 1995.

Also liked the mom’s character getting a little more filled out. It kind of bugged me that she jumped to assuming Janette was “guilty” based on the necklace, but now we know she did have a thought process behind it, was checking into things, and was concerned she hadn’t done enough to guide Janette as she “blossomed.”

Good catch! I didn’t realize that Greg waited an entire year to check to see whether the key was Martin’s! Wow. That really adds a whole new layer to it, with Cindy saying your whole world will collapse when you realize the truth about Jeanette, and, true, Dad stuck by her side for another year.

Re not hearing more about Annabelle, that’s the problem with alternating episodes between Kate and Jeanette’s points-of-view. I much preferred the carnival episode that featured both of them. Or, even the “Kate” episodes are better. Too much Jeanette and Jeanette-adjacent characters this episode.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Blue Plastic said:

Not sure why Janette is so enthralled by the sicko vice principal’s house. She seems to get a kick out of doing risky things, but why his house when there’s other things she could be doing, more stores to shoplift from, whatever?  A misguided crush?

I can't figure this out, either.  What is so exciting about sneaking into this guy's house?    Seeing how he folds his socks?  Checking the spices in his kitchen?  I mean, if she were looking for drugs or something she could sell for money, or even for blackmail material, it would make more sense than just randomly wandering around. 

I wonder how often she did it.  Was this every 6 months or so?  Every week?

[Ambrosefolly]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I can't figure this out, either.  What is so exciting about sneaking into this guy's house?    Seeing how he folds his socks?  Checking the spices in his kitchen?  I mean, if she were looking for drugs or something she could sell for money, or even for blackmail material, it would make more sense than just randomly wandering around. 

I wonder how often she did it.  Was this every 6 months or so?  Every week?

I think it is one of those plot armor things. More realistically, she would be swapping out other keys her father had or even breaking into other people's homes, like Kate's or Jaime's, to get that rush she got from successfully lying to Martin. She didn't seem to have a crush on him nor find anything particularly interesting. One of the weak spots in this story to make it plausible that she saw Kate trapped in the house.