S04.E14: Gender Reveal

[helenamonster]

Quote

After finding out the gender of their unborn child, Lea's enthusiasm prompts Shaun to make an effort to be a more supportive partner. The team treats a navy pilot whose previous doctor's misdiagnosis compromises her chances at a full recovery.

Original airdate: 4/19/21

[SunnyBeBe]

I thought this was one of the better episodes.  

[Annber03]

"Do you want an epidural?

"YES!"

"it's too late for that now."

I LOL'd. 

So, it's a girl, eh? Aw, that's nice :). I liked how things ended with Shaun and Lea. I'm glad they worked things out, and Shaun was open to what Lea wanted in the end. Hopefully all goes well with the doula. 

Interesting patient stories tonight. I appreciate the show bringing attention to the issue of breast cancer in men, and I liked how Park handled the guy's insecurities about making his cancer diagnoses public. It was also fun to see Asher get all fanboy at the wrestler, too :).

But oh, the other case this episode. That's rough. I also like the show bringing attention to how women's health issues tend to be misdiagnosed and ignored. I loved Shaun telling that doctor that he'd never bring his daughter to him :D. Hee. Go, Shaun. 

It was also nice, as always, to see Shaun and Claire working together. And I liked Jordan joining them on this case, too. 

As for Morgan and Park, yeeeeeah, I figured Morgan might start to regret her "go see other people" suggestion to him. 

[Driad]

Given Lea's previous shenanigans, I was afraid she would throw one of those awful gender reveal parties with explosions.  But she seems to be maturing, which is welcome.  Hoping to see less of her in the next few episodes though.

The cases were well done.  I agree with previous posters.

[thuganomics85]

I love that Shaun is such a known entity in the hospital now that as soon as he popped in unannounced for the birthing bit, the doctor wasn't even shocked and was like "Oh, great!  Someone page Glassman and letting know that Shaun is here, being his normal, Shaun self!"  You just know that everyone at the hospital; from the surgeons all the way to the janitors; have some kind of "Shaun story."

Show rolling hard with more social issues, I see.  The A-plot dives into how women's health issues can get misdiagnosed or even simply dismissed due to bias or just assuming the patient is being over-the-top.  And, in this case, even the patient herself is someone who lived her life not wanting to really address any potential symptoms or side effects, because she doesn't want to look "weak", so she buries a lot of stuff in her, which, naturally, leads to friction with her daughter.  At least it looks like she might start opening up and be more vulnerable with her daughter, but it's too bad that it took an incurable disease for it to happen.  Great seeing Diane Farr here.

Meanwhile, the B-plot gave us a bit of the dangers with male pride and ego, with a MMA fighter who was almost willing to risk his life instead of the correct treatment, because he didn't want to look like less of a man to his fans and sponsors.  I guess definitely see how a fighter like him would have those insecurities, but while I admittedly am not as familiar with MMA like other sports, I do know that, if anything, sport fans like nothing more than an inspirational story, so I'm not surprised that it looks like it will work out for him.  Yeah, some stupid fans will turn on him (and they're probably people who you really don't want to be your fans, frankly), but I can easily see him gain more because of this.  As for his sponsors, I would be surprised if any company would want to deal with the massive backlash they would get if they dropped someone for having breast cancer.  But I could see why it would take a lot to convince, and luckily, Park was able to deliver the right speech!

Glad that they addressed the issue of Lea getting support for things Shaun might not be capable of, and a doula seems like a good choice.  Obviously, Shaun was sincere about doing everything he could to be supportive, but I do think there are some things he simply wouldn't be able to pull off as well, so I'm glad they've got that covered.  But I'm sure he'll continue to do what he can to help Lea and make way for their daughter (yep, it's a girl!)

Come now, Reznick!  You should know by now that Park is pretty much the "old man" out of the residents (just an old man who looks like Will Yun Lee!), and isn't about that hooking up with/dating multiple people at the same time scene!  Of course he's going to be more interested in that nice doctor from the pediatric ward, and taking her on a simple date instead.  And, of course it was going to lead to Reznick wondering if maybe she actually doesn't want to do the whole "see other people" bit after-all.

[PinkRibbons]

...is it not common knowledge that pooping while giving birth is super normal? I've never met a mother who cared at that point. The lady teaching that birthing class without telling her students something that matter-of-fact is an idiot. Forget preparing these women for a  "journey", skip to telling them what's normal and not to freak out about.

(That being said it was a little contrived, Shaun should have just brought up the standard that they don't want you to eat in case you have to have an emergency c-section.)

I did love Shaun's telling off that doctor who didn't chart correctly, the way I love that Shaun's character is always open to hearing womens' opinions. It's like the orgasm episode, where Lim just sat down and told him to put in the work. She saw that he was sincere and truly cared about what the women he knew thought, so she skipped the bullshit of being outraged or offended.  Although I hope Glassman made it clear that the one time you shouldn't be asking a woman's opinion is literally while she's pushing a baby out.

[bros402]

Shaun telling off the bad GP was good.

However - uhhh, they diagnosed Mr. MMA pretty quickly. They got that biopsy back in, what, a few hours? They never even did a PET scan to check for mets.

However, both cases of the episode dealt with misdiagnosis/things ignored by the medical system - male breast cancer is not really thought of - since it has less than 1000 cases a year in men. I'm wondering why he was vomiting - usually, they give the Zofran (ondansetron) with the chemo to avoid that. To quote the nurse at my old managing oncologist, "Tell us when you feel nauseous - it's much easier to stop that than it is to stop vomiting."

Edited April 20, 2021 by bros402

[Leeds]

6 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

...is it not common knowledge that pooping while giving birth is super normal? I've never met a mother who cared at that point. The lady teaching that birthing class without telling her students something that matter-of-fact is an idiot. Forget preparing these women for a  "journey", skip to telling them what's normal and not to freak out about.

(That being said it was a little contrived, Shaun should have just brought up the standard that they don't want you to eat in case you have to have an emergency c-section.)

 

When I educated myself about childbirth around twenty years ago, I never read anything about pooping during childbirth.  When it happened I was mortified because I didn't realize it was normal.

And my understanding is that the not eating has as much to do with not wanting to be vomiting during a vaginal birth as being prepared in the case of an emergency c-section.

[RPS]

Who is this Dr. Boyd? I'd like to see more of her.. she was so warm.. no surprise she is in pieds.

[wonderwoman]

9 hours ago, bros402 said:

Shaun telling off the bad GP was good.

not in the front office with other people able to hear him mention the patient’s name. notwithstanding his autism, he should be reported and sanctioned for such a flagrant violation of her privacy and hipaa regulations. 

[AriAu]

Quote

As for Morgan and Park, yeeeeeah, I figured Morgan might start to regret her "go see other people" suggestion to him.

Morgan obviously never watched Sports Night or she would know that Dana's dating plan was a complete failure.

I continue to be surprised that the hospital (and for that matter Lea) doesn't have a plan (ok planS) to help Shawn be able to follow rules and stay within boundaries.....and not violate HIPPA or patient privacy.

[tennisgurl]

Awww Shaun and Lea are having a little girl, and just in time for an episode about how gender can affect diagnosis and treatment. I am glad that Shaun and Lea worked out their issues with the Dulla pretty quickly and that Shaun realized that, while he can do a lot of things for Lea and their baby, he cant do everything, that there are other things that will make Lea feel better and that its better to be supportive. And maybe don't get kicked out of every baby class. Shaun telling off that crappy GP who refused to help his patient was awesome, especially when the other lady in the waiting room got up and left after Shaun did. Although it is kind of questionable saying all of that personal patient info out loud, but why should anyone on this show care about following rules now? 

The cases of the week were both good, they tied into a similar theme about how preconceived notions about gender can affect medical treatment. The pilot mom's ending was quite sad, even though at least she has her daughter to support her. Her story was interesting, not only did they talk about how women's symptoms are often disregarded and ignored by doctors leading to them not getting treatment for serious medical problems, but also how the mom has pushed herself so much that she and her daughter have some issues. Rough ending for her, and so frustrating that they could have helped her more if she had been properly diagnosed earlier. 

I liked the case with the MMA fighter a lot, its another interesting way that gender affects medicine, in his case the patient having breast cancer, which is rare in men but does happen. Breast cancer as an illness is really gendered, probably more than it should be, so that makes it a bit hard for him to accept. Both because having this illness that is considered to be almost entirely feminine could damage his rep to his fans and sponsors, but also because he feels like he has to be physically perfect all of the time to be on top of his game. Park giving the speech at the end was really nice, and Asher being a big MMA fanboy was a fun bit of characterization. 

It was cool seeing some of the other doctors around the hospital a bit, like the jerk GM and the nice doctor from pediatrics who Park was flirting with a bit. Oh yeah, Morgan might have been all about getting Park to get out there and start dating more, but I think she is going to end up regretting it. She just has no idea what to do with the feelings she caught. 

[Fable]

Reznick and Park are really starting to annoy.  I thought they would make fun roommates, but once their little tryst started, I had a feeling things were going to become complicated, and here we are. 

It is nice to see Shaun being accommodating and supportive with Lea, as we all know how stubborn and determined he can be when he gets an idea in his head.  He is willing to learn and grow, even when it goes against his nature, so that he can be the best partner and parent possible. 

[statsgirl]

I liked that connecting line between the woman and the MMA fighter -- that they both felt that they had to keep up with a distorted view of acceptable in masculinity.  I'm shocked that she had to go back to work with only a weekend off for giving birth. (And glad to live in a country where mothers get a year paid maternity leave.)

I'm really liked that the fighter went public about his breast cancer. Best part of the episode for me, .also when Claire told Shaun that it's great that he's having a girl and he said "Why?" A good response to a meaningless comment.

I didn't like how they had this brilliant idea to look on social media for similar symptoms as if it's something new and original.

7 hours ago, Leeds said:

When I educated myself about childbirth around twenty years ago, I never read anything about pooping during childbirth.  When it happened I was mortified because I didn't realize it was normal.

And my understanding is that the not eating has as much to do with not wanting to be vomiting during a vaginal birth as being prepared in the case of an emergency c-section.

I didn't know about that either until I watched Call The Midwife where they regularly give enemas before labour. Certainly didn't learn it from my prenatal classes. I also thought that not eating was important in case there needed to be some sort of emergency surgery.

Speaking of which, was that a hospital prenatal class?  Because she was really awful. Shaun was absolutely right to call the presenter on her mistakes.

When Shaun was so adamant that he didn't want Lea to have a doula, why did no one ask "Why are you against it?  Are you afraid that she will get bad information from her? Or are you afraid that it makes you think that you won't be enough for her and the baby?"   That would have led to an understanding of Shaun's thought processes and maybe taught him a bit more social skills.

But too often Shaun's autism is played for humour or a kind of voyeurism. it makes me very frustrated with the show. I hate the final resolution of the doula which was basically "it's so hard to give birth, mothers should get whatever they want." A highly unrealistic message IMO.

I'm very tired of this pregnancy focus and it's probably going to carry on into next season.  Lea is getting better but she still remains a manic pixie dream girl with unreasonable demands of Shaun.  I was trying to think how I would feel if it were one of the couples I really shipped at the time (e.g. Abby/Luka on ER, Delenn/Sheridan, Worf/Dax) and I decided that I wouldn't have wanted to see any of them in such close pregnancy stories.  It's worth noting that the first two of those couples did have in-show babies, and yet their entire pregnancies took up less story space than Shaun and Lea's have to this point.

[rmontro]

I'm glad Park found someone else more attuned to his needs, and got away from Morgan.  She is about as toxic a person to get involved with that I can imagine.

[KaveDweller]

On 4/20/2021 at 12:51 AM, PinkRibbons said:

...is it not common knowledge that pooping while giving birth is super normal? I've never met a mother who cared at that point. The lady teaching that birthing class without telling her students something that matter-of-fact is an idiot. Forget preparing these women for a  "journey", skip to telling them what's normal and not to freak out about.

I've never had kids, but I know that because they mentioned it on Grey's Anatomy and in this really old Lifetime movie called "Fifteen and Pregnant." It is so old, Kirsten Dunst was playing the fifteen-year-old.

So we have another episode where the patient's diagnosis basically ruins their dreams/career. Did this happen to someone on the writing staff? It is a really weird trend.

Edited April 21, 2021 by KaveDweller

[jabRI]

I'm so distracted by Lea's styling.  The orange button up shirt with the brown corduroys, with the little belt.   Felt like I was back in the '70's.  I don't know if she's going for a boho-chic retro vibe? She should dress more professionally if she's the head of IT for a major hospital.  Or go all-out comfort, the college look is just not working.  Makes her seem really juvenile.

[bros402]

14 hours ago, wonderwoman said:

not in the front office with other people able to hear him mention the patient’s name. notwithstanding his autism, he should be reported and sanctioned for such a flagrant violation of her privacy and hipaa regulations. 

Oh yes, I thought I put that in my post - he should've done it in private.

I like how the secretary literally had the patient's chart to hand to the doctor the second he called for it.

I was just like "....what???"

[Granny58]

19 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I'm shocked that she had to go back to work with only a weekend off for giving birth.

as I understand it, she didn't HAVE to go back to work...she chose to go back to work.  My Air Force hubby told me that she wouldn't even pass her physical that soon after giving birth so wouldn't be allowed to fly anyway.  

[Granny58]

the statement/discussion in the OR where the lead surgeon (name?) was saying that she was annoyed that men don't have to make the same kinds of decisions about having family or a career.  For all the wokeness this episode was trying to convey, they missed the mark.  It assumes that all men want to build a career and don't want to be a full time father, and so was still bound by the gender stereotypes they were trying to highlight.   I asked my husband, if I was making the better salary would he have wanted to stay at home while I kept working.  He said yes.  My brother was going to do that (unfortunately he died before that happened) and my cousin absolutely did that for his doctor wife.   So if we look at it like that, a high level professional woman can absolutely have the same advantages of a high level professional man, as long as their relationship is structured that way.  It's not an issue for "society" to handle.  

[statsgirl]

I think Lim's statement was not that all men want to build a career and not be a full time parent, it's that they get the choice while women don't.  She's saying that if she had chosen to have children, it would have cost her career-wise, either in terms of not being able to take on the high position that she has or in terms of how she was regarded by her colleagues (sad but true that women lose status and money when they have a child while men don't).

If two high-powered people chose to have children, unless the man is willing to step back from his work and take the time for the children (even if they have a full-time nanny), it is the woman's career that is going to suffer.

10 hours ago, bros402 said:

I like how the secretary literally had the patient's chart to hand to the doctor the second he called for it.

She had taken it out because Shaun had just been looking at it trying to find what the patient's recorded symptoms were. (Hopefully he had a signed form from her that allowed him to do that.)

[Granny58]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I think Lim's statement was not that all men want to build a career and not be a full time parent, it's that they get the choice while women don't. 

Women DO have the choice.   Choose a man that has the same goals (a parent at home).  

[chitowngirl]

In my birthing class 26 years ago, the teacher told us that you use the same muscle group when you push out the baby as when you have a BM. You connect the dots...

[HerkyJerky]

On 4/20/2021 at 10:49 AM, AriAu said:

Morgan obviously never watched Sports Night or she would know that Dana's dating plan was a complete failure.

Never watched that show.  What happened there?  Before my sister got married, she complained that when she and her date went to the bar that he would watch the game the whole time and not pay any attention to her.  Is that what happened?  I told her that for me personally, I would never ask anybody out on a night when there was a BIG GAME on.

[jabRI]

On Sports Night, a man had recently gotten divorced and wanted to get (back if i recall?) with a former flame and co-worker.  Since he'd been married right out of school, she wanted him to experience dating as an adult and see if he still wanted to be with her.  She asked him to go on 100 dates before they'd go out.  Fantastic show, with Peter Krause, Felicity Huffman, Josh Charles, created by Aaron Sorkin.  I don't usually like comedies but this was exceptionally done, with many tender, dramatic moments.

[The Wild Sow]

On 4/20/2021 at 1:45 AM, bros402 said:

However - uhhh, they diagnosed Mr. MMA pretty quickly. They got that biopsy back in, what, a few hours? They never even did a PET scan to check for mets.

 

Well, how could they? This hospital apparently employs no imaging techs whatsoever! The surgeons are just running around doing their own ultrasounds, CT’s, MRI’s...who knows, maybe PET scans too.  Possibly he had his imaging work up off camera?  Even so ... no such thing as a “stat” PET scan. What do they think, you can keep your radiopharmaceuticals just sitting around on a shelf? They’re radioactive! 

If he came to me, I could get his PET done Friday morning. And we would order the FDG from the company that makes it (my hospital does not own a cyclotron.) And the study would be performed by qualified Nuc Med technologists, and read by a Radiologist. Not by the freakin’ surgeons, who aren’t allowed to and don’t know how anyway 🤣

[bros402]

3 hours ago, The Wild Sow said:

Well, how could they? This hospital apparently employs no imaging techs whatsoever! The surgeons are just running around doing their own ultrasounds, CT’s, MRI’s...who knows, maybe PET scans too.  Possibly he had his imaging work up off camera?  Even so ... no such thing as a “stat” PET scan. What do they think, you can keep your radiopharmaceuticals just sitting around on a shelf? They’re radioactive! 

If he came to me, I could get his PET done Friday morning. And we would order the FDG from the company that makes it (my hospital does not own a cyclotron.) And the study would be performed by qualified Nuc Med technologists, and read by a Radiologist. Not by the freakin’ surgeons, who aren’t allowed to and don’t know how anyway 🤣

yeah, they should've at least done a full body CT - I have had one done with contrast STAT. My full body scan was like 2? hours after being ordered. The time I had a STAT head CT was something like 20-30 minutes later because I was at the highest level of triage because their notes indicated that they thought there was a significant risk to life or permanent injury.

the only place I could see a stat PET being done is a cancer center - but their hospital is not a cancer center.

[The Wild Sow]

4 hours ago, bros402 said:

he only place I could see a stat PET being done is a cancer center - but their hospital is not a cancer center.

 

4 hours ago, bros402 said:

yeah, they should've at least done a full body CT - I have had one done with contrast STAT.

Iodine contrast is shelf-stable.  FDG-18 has a half life of 109.8 minutes!  Yes, the cancer center probably has their own cyclotron.  

Glad you're better.

[AriAu]

Quote

On Sports Night, a man had recently gotten divorced and wanted to get (back if i recall?) with a former flame and co-worker.  Since he'd been married right out of school, she wanted him to experience dating as an adult and see if he still wanted to be with her.  She asked him to go on 100 dates before they'd go out. 

That's the gist of it....but no 100 dates. The key was that she regretted it pretty quickly after she announced her "dating plan", when she saw him with another woman....and he had enough of her crazy. Sound like what we are seeing here????

Quote

Fantastic show, with Peter Krause, Felicity Huffman, Josh Charles, created by Aaron Sorkin.  I don't usually like comedies but this was exceptionally done, with many tender, dramatic moments.

Understatement as to how great that show was...and actually still is. Time for a re-watch. Aaron Sorkin's first TV show and  he came up with it watching ESPN while he was writing The American President. And for those who are wondering...its a "dramedy: about a sports highlight show but isn't about sports at all.

[kicotan]

Gender revealing in 2021 is awkward if not outright perverse.  It’s a crude throwback to the past when observable genitalia determined one’s gender.  Gender expression is a CHOICE.  Parents being validated with congratulations when they expose the result of their child’s biological genitalia...as if it means anything once that offspring matures and decides for itself what gender specific social construct they identify with is something I don’t think this show, with all of the progressive themes they put forward did a good job with.

They are not having a little girl.  They are having a biological female who may or may not identify with the socially accepted female construct.

Edited April 23, 2021 by kicotan
Clarity

[bros402]

18 hours ago, The Wild Sow said:

Iodine contrast is shelf-stable.  FDG-18 has a half life of 109.8 minutes!  Yes, the cancer center probably has their own cyclotron.  

Glad you're better.

Still have cancer, but it's one that can't form tumors, so we like that.

I like that you stated the exact half life of it. Not "110 minutes", not "pretty much 110 minutes", but 109.8 minutes.

[janey99]

On 4/20/2021 at 10:09 PM, jabRI said:

I'm so distracted by Lea's styling.  The orange button up shirt with the brown corduroys, with the little belt.   Felt like I was back in the '70's.  I don't know if she's going for a boho-chic retro vibe? She should dress more professionally if she's the head of IT for a major hospital.  Or go all-out comfort, the college look is just not working.  Makes her seem really juvenile.

That outfit and the way it fit her left me wondering if the actress is pregnant in real life.  Is she?  I'm having a bad flashback because I actually had a pair of brown corduroy maternity pants!

[Fable]

5 hours ago, janey99 said:

That outfit and the way it fit her left me wondering if the actress is pregnant in real life.  Is she?  I'm having a bad flashback because I actually had a pair of brown corduroy maternity pants!

I wondered about that too, although not because of her clothes, but I thought she looked a little thicker and it seems like her face is a little fuller.  

[possibilities]

I might actually find the baby storyline tolerable if it leans into Shaun becoming more passionate about combatting sexism in the world, rather than being about diapers and remedies for colic.

[gail56]

On 4/20/2021 at 6:19 AM, Leeds said:

When I educated myself about childbirth around twenty years ago, I never read anything about pooping during childbirth.  When it happened I was mortified because I didn't realize it was normal.

And my understanding is that the not eating has as much to do with not wanting to be vomiting during a vaginal birth as being prepared in the case of an emergency c-section.

I never read anything either, but when I had my first son in 1978, they gave me an enema when I was in early labor and told me the reason why. I didn't poop with him but did a little with my second. 

[ForReal]

On 4/20/2021 at 12:54 PM, statsgirl said:

When Shaun was so adamant that he didn't want Lea to have a doula, why did no one ask "Why are you against it?  Are you afraid that she will get bad information from her? Or are you afraid that it makes you think that you won't be enough for her and the baby?"   That would have led to an understanding of Shaun's thought processes and maybe taught him a bit more social skills.

This was unclear to me as well. I wondered if Lea was only going to be able to have one person in the room as a result of Covid restrictions, and she was choosing the doula over Shaun, which wouldn't be right, in my opinion. But if both Shaun and the doula could be there, why was Shaun being so stubborn? He's frequently part of a surgical team, seems like he could understand that numerous people can be needed during a procedure.

[aemom]

On 4/19/2021 at 11:10 PM, Annber03 said:

I also like the show bringing attention to how women's health issues tend to be misdiagnosed and ignored. I loved Shaun telling that doctor that he'd never bring his daughter to him :D. Hee. Go, Shaun. 

I liked this too.  Also ironic for me that I started having a massive hot flash at this moment and had to pause the show.

 

On 4/20/2021 at 12:51 AM, PinkRibbons said:

...is it not common knowledge that pooping while giving birth is super normal? I've never met a mother who cared at that point. The lady teaching that birthing class without telling her students something that matter-of-fact is an idiot. Forget preparing these women for a  "journey", skip to telling them what's normal and not to freak out about.

I read a lot about childbirth ahead of time and nobody warned me about this at all - including the facilitators of the birthing classes I attended.  My reaction was WTF?  But my doctor seemed unfazed, and I didn't care too much at that point.

 

On 4/29/2021 at 3:00 PM, ForReal said:

This was unclear to me as well. I wondered if Lea was only going to be able to have one person in the room as a result of Covid restrictions, and she was choosing the doula over Shaun, which wouldn't be right, in my opinion. But if both Shaun and the doula could be there, why was Shaun being so stubborn? He's frequently part of a surgical team, seems like he could understand that numerous people can be needed during a procedure.

I think that it's hard for Shaun to have his ASD limits put in his face all the time, and really wants to try to overcome them.  To him, Lea having to hire a doula is a bit of a failure in his mind, but one that he has finally accepted.

[possibilities]

The thing is, a LOT of women have doulas, and plenty of them have neurotypical partners. 

[statsgirl]

On 5/4/2021 at 1:29 PM, aemom said:

I think that it's hard for Shaun to have his ASD limits put in his face all the time, and really wants to try to overcome them.  To him, Lea having to hire a doula is a bit of a failure in his mind, but one that he has finally accepted.

We don't know that though because no one thought to ask him why he didn't want a doula. Given the misinformation the woman at the prenatal class was giving, Shaun may have opposed having a doula because he thought that the doula would give Lea bad information too. In the end Shaun agreed for what seems to me a ridiculous reason (a pregnant woman should have what she wants) rather than a true understanding.

I was disappointed, I wanted to know why Shaun was so opposed to a doula.

This is why it seems to me that too often Shaun's ASD is played for quirkiness/comedy rather than a realistic exploration of the condition.

[Power-Aspie]

58 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

We don't know that though because no one thought to ask him why he didn't want a doula.

Glassman did ask him, but while Shaun did acknowledge that statistics show doulas having a positive impact, he still did resent the idea – without really knowing why.

SAUN: Lea wants to have a doula.
GLASSMAN: Okay, and, uh, you don't?
SAUN: Research shows that doula-assisted births have fewer complications, decreased length of labor, and increased breastfeeding rates.
GLASSMAN: So, you do want a doula?
SAUN: N-No. I can precisely measure the time between contractions and get the right washcloths and I've mapped out the fastest route from the OB floor to the cafeteria for ice chips. I don't want Lea to have a doula. But... they are good. I am very bad at massages.
GLASSMAN: So, you... you want Lea to have everything that she wants, but you don't want her to want a doula?
SAUN: Yes. […]

This all is a strong indicator that Shaun felt diminished by Lea choosing a doula (over him) but wasn’t able to properly access and communicate his emotions concerning the issue. That is consistent with Shaun’s since episodes 2.02/03 well established pattern of comorbid alexithymia.

You did not get an answer why Shaun was against the doula because Shaun did not know the answer.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Power-Aspie

[izabella]

14 minutes ago, Power-Aspie said:

This all is a strong indicator that Shaun felt diminished by Lea choosing a doula (over him) but wasn’t able to properly access and communicate his emotions concerning the issue.

Yes, it seemed obvious to me that he was insulted and hurt that Lea wanted someone other than him helping her during the birth.  He wanted her to want only him there, and he wanted to be the only one to help her.  Basically, he wanted Lea not to want a doula.

[possibilities]

So... Shaun's ego got in the way. He acknowledged that he couldn't do everything Lea wanted (like massages) and that a doula could provide that for her. Yet he was more concerned with his ego than with Lea's comfort. I don't think that's an autism issue, I think that's a toxic masculinity issue.

[Power-Aspie]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

Yet he was more concerned with his ego than with Lea's comfort. I don't think that's an autism issue, I think that's a toxic masculinity issue.

How easy navigating a complex world can get when you have simple concepts for the enemy – it’s the men!

Now, have you bothered to consider how you would feel when for your whole life next to everyone, including your own father, tells you that you are not enough? That you are less than others because of how your brain is different from most? How much energy you had to gather every day to prove yourself to be worthy to be granted the rights others enjoy effortlessly? To be accepted among the mighty neurotypicals?

For Shaun, Lea’s wish to have a doula is just another variation of his lifelong struggle to be enough – and it comes from the person he loves and trusts most. Of course, it is hard for him to accept her wish, especially since the doula is poaching his dominion – medicine.

It is a great leap in his character development to accept his limits and step aside for the benefit of his partner.

 

[Calvada]

The public conversation Shaun and the other doctor had was very inappropriate.  I did love how the woman waiting to see the doctor walked out after hearing it.

[possibilities]

Lots of people are underestimated and devalued by society. I certainly know what it's like to be treated that way, and it made me laugh to think I might have to try to imagine what Shaun is going through, as though I'd never experienced it. 

This is a tv show, and they're in the habit of writing Shaun in a way that everything he does is excused or explained by autism, but I think it's a grave disservice to people with autism (and other "disabilities") and also to good storytelling, to chalk up everything about someone to their diagnosis or whatever other label is thrown their way. Some stuff is, some stuff isn't. The people I know (with or without autism) would be hugely insulted to be viewed with that one dimensional attitude. So for me, I think the show is written badly and promotes misconceptions and a fundamentally flawed and disrespectful attitude when it does this.

I don't think all problems are caused by men, or that it's always easy to spot your villain by looking for their gender. That's preposterous. However, I do think Shaun's behavior in this episode is a perfect example of toxic masculinity, which I do think is a thing that exists, though not all men or all moments exemplify it. 

The writers of this show seem to be pretty committed to autism as the only thing that drives Shaun's personality or motivations, and I think that's a shame. I think it's helpful to view his character with more nuance than that, just like I think it's a better policy in real life to view real people with more nuance than that. The fact that many viewers will also adopt this viewpoint, or have it reinforced if they already hold it, I find very discouraging. And contrary to what some may think, there is not anything close to universal agreement among autistic people about Shaun's character or this show being well-drawn. Some hate it. Apparently some don't. I think it really depends on what you compare it to, and what your goals are for how people should be treated and how society should operate in general. 

[Fable]

I don’t believe Shaun was wrong or selfish for wanting to participate in the birth of their child.  After all, this is a life-changing event for both of them.  He seemed hurt more than anything.  I don’t think Lea was wrong or selfish either, so they needed to communicate with other and figure out something that worked.  That’s what grownup couples do. 

[statsgirl]

On 5/7/2021 at 1:39 PM, Power-Aspie said:

You did not get an answer why Shaun was against the doula because Shaun did not know the answer.

That is what I would expect. But the show didn't give me an answer by having any of these doctors explore the reason and that I did expect. In real life, people can go for years without understanding their own motivations but this is a scripted show with well-paid writers.

On 5/8/2021 at 4:15 AM, Power-Aspie said:

Now, have you bothered to consider how you would feel when for your whole life next to everyone, including your own father, tells you that you are not enough? That you are less than others because of how your brain is different from most? How much energy you had to gather every day to prove yourself to be worthy to be granted the rights others enjoy effortlessly?

This is true for many people who have parents who demand perfection of them, not just people who don't have neurotypical brains. It's also true that there are people with ASD who are narcissists and have no problem competing; I personally know one.

I don't mind creating a fanon for a secondary character if I have to. But in season 4 for the show's title character when they've spent most of the storylines on him, I expect to have my questions answered.