S03:E06 Something Old, Something New

[AgentRXS]

Quote

While the dust settles on their unforeseen life change, Papi adjusts to being a guardian and Angel seeks guidance from an unexpected source.

Original Air Date: May 30, 2021

[Hiyo]

Promo:

 

[Yogisbooboo64]

Motherfuckers, I ain't trying to cry in the first five minutes!!

(Grabs tissue)

[toodywoody]

Bawling throughout. Next week I will be too. I just want happy endings for everyone. 

[Scarlett45]

11 minutes ago, toodywoody said:

Bawling throughout. Next week I will be too. I just want happy endings for everyone. 

It was a beautiful episode! Such a gorgeous wedding! All of the money this season was spent on the music rights and I’m not mad. 

[Yogisbooboo64]

Gotdamn but that was a beautiful episode!  When I wasn't clutching my heart I was crying....the speeches made by the girls and Papi almost had me in the fetal position, I don't know how I will be at next week's series finale.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Yogisbooboo64

[gatopretoNYC]

I enjoyed the episode, especially the wedding vows; dammit, who is chopping onions in here? But that song vow was ridiculous and annoying, and took me right out. Also, Angel is so beautiful, but to me her makeup was too much, and actually detracted from her beauty.

Fairy Godmother Elektra spent all that cash, but there's no reception?! Quite disappointed by that.

[AgentRXS]

So now I'm supposed to believe Cubby meant more to Papi than Damon? Yeah, actor availability and all that, but it would have been nice to include a phone call from Damon to both Angel and Papi.

So we are still in full-on fantasy I guess. The wedding was beautiful though. I couldn't help but notice that every single guest looked like they could pass easily as a cis female. I am so disappointed that this show never dared to show someone that might actually get clocked in the real world.

The only part of the episode that truly tugged at my heart was Blanca working on Pray's quilt and Pray talking about leaving behind a legacy. So many bold and beautiful souls were unnecessarily lost in that era. It was such a damn shame.

I can't believe next week is the end. I will miss Blanca and even Pray Tell's sometimes annoying self so much. Sigh.

[LittleIggy]

I’m sure Elektra threw a big reception. It just wasn’t shown. 
Angel and Papi lucked out on the clerk they got at City Hall. I loved Papi charming her, pulling out the picture of Beto. Didn’t hurt that she was Dominican, too. 
Cubby! Candy!
I got the biggest grin on my face when Papi started singing I Swear. It got bigger when Ricky sang back-up then everybody joined in. I was singing along, too! 
Next week’s episode will melt me into a puddle, I’m sure.

Edited May 31, 2021 by LittleIggy

[Juneau Gal]

Can anyone tell me the name of the actor who played Angel’s father? He looks so familiar and it’s driving me crazy. IMDb was no help. 

[Surrealist]

27 minutes ago, Juneau Gal said:

Can anyone tell me the name of the actor who played Angel’s father? He looks so familiar and it’s driving me crazy. IMDb was no help. 

David Zayas

He's been in a number of things, but I most remember him on HBO's Oz.

[AgentRXS]

He also played a detective in Dexter as well. 

[Surrealist]

I know I complained a bit about the over-the-top fantasy stuff earlier in this final season, but please Pose gods give Lulu a happy ending.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Surrealist

[Glade]

This was a beautiful ensemble episode; I’m so glad they pulled away from the OTT Elektra/mob stuff in favor of re-centering the narrative around the chosen family. I so loved that we returned to Pray Tell as fashion designer ala the pilot episode, and bringing in the aids quilt was gold. Blanca is so gorgeous, and so was that dress he made for her. Papi’s kindness and earnestness are so endearing, and it looks like he’ll be a great father. I’m glad that Angel meeting with her’s was not some unrealistic forgiveness-fest, and showed Angel she was never going to get love looking back there.

The clerk simply choosing not to see the marker on Angel's passport was a sweet deal, but it’s not social justice and Angel/Papi will be the ones who have to pay if it comes to light later on. I hope they have lots of legal documents drawn up too (wills, power of attorney, guardianship etc); otherwise if one of them dies and it’s found out the marriage wasn’t supposed to be legal, they’re back to having no rights.

Papi and Blanca are so great with Beto, and hopefully Angel will learn over time. My jaw dropped when Cubby walked in; such a beautiful suit, moment, and person! So glad he and Candy were never forgotten, and that Papi has gotten all of this character development; wow! Angel's wedding dress was so gorge, and the wedding was beyond moving.  I hope they aren’t driving that car all the way to Disney...

[Yogisbooboo64]

4 hours ago, Surrealist said:

David Zayas

He's been in a number of things, but I most remember him on HBO's Oz.

THANK YOU!!

It was driving me nutso, I was staring at him all during his scene....what finally turned on the light was his chin, during Oz he was a bit heavier and that chin ventured near Jay Leno territory.

[Hiyo]

Quote

I know I complained a bit about the over-the-top fantasy stuff earlier in this final season, but please Pose gods give Lulu a happy ending.

I have a feeling we are going to have the former in the last episode. Maybe not on the revisionist level of an openly gay man conquering Hollywood in the 1950s a la Hollywood, but I suppose it would be better than an ending of misery porn.

As for Lulu...I wish they gave her more to do this season overall, but hey, if nothing else, at least she is still here.

[bosawks]

Ricky IMMEDIATELY turning on Nickelodeon after Papi left was the most on brand thing ever.

[Hiyo]

Also another This Is Happening in 1994! thing too.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Hiyo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I started cracking up when Papi's wedding vows were just the lyrics to I Swear (it reminded me of Scrubs when Turk's toast to Carla at the rehearsal dinner was Billy Crystal's speech from the end of When Harry Met Sally), so I laughed even harder when Christopher asked Blanca, "Is he just reciting the lyrics from I Swear?"

I don't care if this entire episode was fantasy fulfillment. This is the penultimate episode of the series and I want to see the characters I love getting happy endings. I liked that even though Angel's dad clearly did make an effort when he referred to her as mija, it just wasn't enough and it made Angel realize that she will never get the approval from him that she craves. I am not in the same situation as Angel, but I had a similar realization in my early 20s when I finally realized that my dad was NEVER going to give me approval I wanted or the kind of relationship with me that I wanted so I just let it go. I still talked to him and saw him when I went home to visit, but letting go of the hope that one day he would think I was good enough was very freeing. Anyway, I loved that Angel realized she had all the love, approval, and acceptance she needed from her chosen family.

Papi was adorable with Beto! I know it was a small thing, but when all the guys were gathered and Papi ordered drinks for them, I really loved that he remembered to order a non-alcoholic drink for Pray. It was a sweet but thoughtful detail.

Even though there was less music than usual in this episode, they were all A+ selections. Loved the instrumental version of Save the Best for Last! And that TLC song took me back.

ETA: Whoever piled all that makeup on Angel's face for the wedding committed a crime against beauty.

Edited May 31, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, Glade said:

The clerk simply choosing not to see the marker on Angel's passport was a sweet deal, but it’s not social justice and Angel/Papi will be the ones who have to pay if it comes to light later on. I hope they have lots of legal documents drawn up too (wills, power of attorney, guardianship etc); otherwise if one of them dies and it’s found out the marriage wasn’t supposed to be legal, they’re back to having no rights.

I am not sure if the clerk chose to ignore the gender marker of “M” or wasn’t reading closely enough. 
 

I say this because when I was right out of law school I was working on permanent residency applications and a woman was applying for her permanent green card as a spouse- she had an “M” under sex on her green card; she wasn’t trans or non binary -and no one had caught it or questioned it for two years. It was a typo, I’m sure she’s not the only person that happened to. 
 

But I do agree they need to handle their paperwork. Especially since they have to think of Beto now, Angel has no legal rights to him, what if Papi is in a car accident or something. 

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I am not in the same situation as Angel, but I had a similar realization in my early 20s when I finally realized that my dad was NEVER going to give me approval I wanted or the kind of relationship with me that I wanted so I just let it go. I still talked to him and saw him when I went home to visit, but letting go of the hope that one day he would think I was good enough was very freeing. Anyway, I loved that Angel realized she had all the love, approval, and acceptance she needed from her chosen family.

Poor Angel. I’m glad she let that man go. He was willing to take her money but not pay respect to her? Fuck him. It seems that her bio Mom was good to her but died when she was a teen (she ran away at 16, she’s likely in her mid 20s now). 

[Crashcourse]

I'm happy for Angel and especially Papi getting his family.  I thought the wedding seemed like an over the top fantasy and singing "I Swear" went on far too long.  I thought it was enough for Papi singing and Ricky backing him up.  They didn't need the whole crowd singing it. 

I was surprised that Angel's makeup was so bad. 

Oh well, it was great seeing Candy and Cubby again. 

 

[Crashcourse]

Since we're nearing the end, I just want to say that I think Candy and Lulu were the two most gorgeous characters on the show.   Angel is a model, but if poor Candy had lived I think she would have made a great model.

[Ohiopirate02]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

ETA: Whoever piled all that makeup on Angel's face for the wedding committed a crime against beauty.

It must have been the same MUA who made Candy's face ashy.  I get she was a ghost, but her face and body were two different colors.   

[ItCouldBeWorse]

20 hours ago, gatopretoNYC said:

Also, Angel is so beautiful, but to me her makeup was too much, and actually detracted from her beauty.

 

11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Whoever piled all that makeup on Angel's face for the wedding committed a crime against beauty.

 

9 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

I was surprised that Angel's makeup was so bad. 

I've decided to assume that this was a recreation of '90's makeup trends.  However, I am not a fan of pink mascara.  And her lipstick color clashed with the blooming flowers (interesting feature) added to the dress whose bodice I still don't like.  I should have known that the dress was too simple for this fantasy, even though Angel and the other women liked it just the way it was in the store!

I also hope that the white convertible (top down in winter!) Elektra gifted Papi with was just a rental to get them back to their apartment before leaving for Disney.  It seems like an extremely impractical vehicle to keep on the streets of wherever in NY they are living.  It would have made more sense to have simply rented a white stretch limo and driver to drive them home.

[Crashcourse]

1 minute ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I also hope that the white convertible (top down in winter!) Elektra gifted Papi with was just a rental to get them back to their apartment before leaving for Disney. 

Yes, I forgot about the convertible with the top down when it was clearly winter.  That was so stupid.  A limo would have made more sense. 

[SnarkEnthusiast]

Papi's speech to the groomsmen brought tears to my eyes. He's just such a pure, loving, wholeheartedly accepting person. Easily one of my. favorite characters of all time. He's truly a love letter to a world without toxic masculinity. And Angel Curiel is the king of conveying those softer, emotional moments. He always looks at Indya like the world revolves around her. His reaction to her vows was so beautiful. I've never seen anyone radiate with love while crying and it encapsulates his character so well. I'll miss him the most. I hope Angel Curiel plays every romantic lead ever after this show, because no one holds a candle to his charm.

My one complaint was not enjoying I Swear because 1) there's no way I buy bleeding heart Romeo Papi would totally blank on his vows of all things, and on the heels of an off-the-cuff monologue pouring his soul out to the groomsmen no less! It was just a way to shoehorn a musical number into the wedding. Which leads me to 2) it totally broke my immersion! This show loves a fantasy sequence, I know, but it didn't feel real, especially when the entire church joined in. I wouldn't have minded nearly as much if it hadn't replaced his actual vows, so when Blanca lampshaded that to Christopher I felt vindicated, lol. Agreed with @Crashcourse that it went a bit too long. Candy's farewell number felt justified, but I was disappointed the song monopolized 80% of the wedding and imo detracted from the natural emotion of the moment. It was particularly gimmicky given Angel Curiel and Indya's effortless chemistry, even if Angel C singing was, of course, endearing as hell.

8 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

if poor Candy had lived I think she would have made a great model.

Angelica Ross looked incredible in her scene. It was by far my favorite look she's ever worn. The purple blazer, the earrings, the wig - everything was immaculate. It definitely made me forget how ridiculously overused Ghost!Candy has become. On that note, the fact that Papi and Angel had parallel his & her ghost hallucinations before their wedding is very unintentionally hilarious. (Were Cubby and Papi even close or did he just need a ghost to visit him? I'm assuming this is another Angel/Candy scenario where I've forgotten they interacted.)

13 hours ago, bosawks said:

Ricky IMMEDIATELY turning on Nickelodeon after Papi left was the most on brand thing ever.

This season really highlighted how underrated and underused Ricky is as a character. Dyllón Burnside brings such a warm energy into his scenes and has wonderful chemistry with every scene partner. His friendship with Papi is truly the most wholesome gift this final stretch of episodes could've given us. I loved when Papi reached for his hand during I Swear. A tiny moment that speaks volumes about their dynamic and makes the characters feel real amidst the absurdity. Beautiful, textured character work from both Angel C and Dyllón. Dyllón is also something special and I hope his star continues to rise.

Soap and shark jumping aside, I'm gonna fucking miss this show.

Edited June 1, 2021 by SnarkEnthusiast

[Yogisbooboo64]

Loved Lulu calling out the girls regarding how no one ever seems to ask her about Candy.

Forgot to mention, Candy's ghost wig was GOD!!

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I hope Angel Curiel plays every romantic lead ever after this show, because no one holds a candle to his charm.

Me too. If he’s half a good a man as he is an actor, Janet Mock is a lucky lady!

 

2 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Dyllón is also something special and I hope his star continues to rise.

Yes! He has a very nice look to him where he can play romantic lead, but not be sleezy. I see him kind of like a new Larenz Tate?

 

10 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Since we're nearing the end, I just want to say that I think Candy and Lulu were the two most gorgeous characters on the show.   Angel is a model, but if poor Candy had lived I think she would have made a great model.

Lulu is gorgeous. Hailie Sahar also plays the sister of a character in Good Trouble- she’s just as gorgeous there but less “diva” because it’s a modern role. 

[Blakeston]

Maybe I'm made of stone, but this episode didn't do much for me emotionally. I need something to be grounded in reality to have an emotional response to it, and this just wasn't.

I would have been much more moved by Angel and Papi having a small civil union ceremony that cost very little money, but was made magical by the characters' using their ball skills to throw together something spectacular.

A few notes:

- Not only was Angel's makeup at the wedding awful, but when she and Papi went to get the license, she looked more masculine than she's ever looked on the show (flashbacks aside). Why the hell would she dress in such a severe way?

- Angel went from "I can't possibly marry Papi because he has a kid, and I'm going to toss my ring on the floor because I'm so disgusted by the thought" to "Of course I'll be your mother" all because of one conversation with her father. Miraculous!

- I appreciate that with Pray's family and Angel's father, this season has shown us multiple people who are unhappy about their relatives' queerness, but still love them and want them in their lives. We usually either see one extreme ("You're disowned!") or the other (marching with PFLAG In the pride parade). So, so many queer people have danced this difficult dance with their families, and it's nice to see it represented.

(That said, if I were Angel, no way in hell would I be giving my father money I earned on the docks after he threw me out. But that's a decision each person needs to make for themself.)

- Fuck you, Elektra, for that comment about how "civil unions are fine for the homos," but not for her or Angel, who apparently deserve better. No, Elektra, you don't deserve better treatment just because you're hetero. That was a vile remark, and I thought one of the other characters (like Blanca) would call her out on it.

[tennisgurl]

I know that this season has been ridiculously over the top in the overindulgent wish fulfilment, and I've been complaining about it for most of the season, but...damn it if I didnt still get teary eyed during Papi and Angel's big wedding. I am so happy that they managed to get married without any trouble at the courthouse, that Angel realized her mistake in leaving right away and went back to Papi, and their big happy wedding all went perfectly. Of course Papi created an elaborate song number for his vows, romantic that he is, and I just cant not be happy when Papi is happy, I just love him so much. He's just so charming and lovable, every scene is improved with him being around. He and Angel deserve that happy ending with cute little Beto damn it. It really hit me in all of the feels. 

Papi's speech to the guys was so sweet, although I really wish that Damon could have at least have been mentioned, and Pray wanting everyone to be happy for the wedding and not sad about his impending blindness and death really hurt. It was the smallest scene in the midst of the big flashy numbers and high romance, but I really liked the scene between Blanca and Pray about how he wants to leave a legacy behind. It felt so real and so tragic. 

15 hours ago, bosawks said:

Ricky IMMEDIATELY turning on Nickelodeon after Papi left was the most on brand thing ever.

You just know that Ricky is going to be Cool Uncle Ricky who lets Beto eat dessert before dinner every time be babysits. Papi and Ricky's friendship has always been one of my favorite relationships in the show, their scenes have so much warmth to them. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by tennisgurl

[txhorns79]

32 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

It was the smallest scene in the midst of the big flashy numbers and high romance, but I really liked the scene between Blanca and Pray about how he wants to leave a legacy behind. It felt so real and so tragic. 

I felt like they were almost on a different show.  They keep throwing all this awful stuff at Pray, while it seems like the rest of the cast is getting everything they ever wanted.     

And just as an aside, in 1994 the Lotte New York Palace Hotel (where they had the wedding) was still just called The New York Palace Hotel.  The name was not changed until 2015.  I know it's a nothing detail, but it was noticed!   

 

[RealReality]

On 5/30/2021 at 7:10 PM, Yogisbooboo64 said:

Motherfuckers, I ain't trying to cry in the first five minutes!!

(Grabs tissue)

I'm just chopping these invisible onions... I'm not crying!

[RealReality]

On 5/30/2021 at 9:08 PM, gatopretoNYC said:

I enjoyed the episode, especially the wedding vows; dammit, who is chopping onions in here? But that song vow was ridiculous and annoying, and took me right out. Also, Angel is so beautiful, but to me her makeup was too much, and actually detracted from her beauty.

Fairy Godmother Elektra spent all that cash, but there's no reception?! Quite disappointed by that.

I FF through papis song and dance.  I think it was a boy band song?  I knew that wasn't for me.  

I'm sure elektra has or had something over the top planned. 

I was half surprised they didn't end the episode with a few detectives outside waiting for elektra.  

I really hope elektra makes it out of this with a good ending.  

Everyone on this show is gorgeous.  I wish we had gotten to know lulu better. 

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

 

- Fuck you, Elektra, for that comment about how "civil unions are fine for the homos," but not for her or Angel, who apparently deserve better. No, Elektra, you don't deserve better treatment just because you're hetero. That was a vile remark, and I thought one of the other characters (like Blanca) would call her out on it.

This was the weirdest comment that came out of nowhere.  

Elektra, especially elektra of this season hasn't shown evidence of having some issue with gay men.  Cubby and that other child were gay men.  Pray is a gay man, so is Ricky and id never seen elektra have a problem or think they deserve less as "sons" of the house.  

Elektras point could have been made the way her point has always been made.  Angel is part of a sisterhood who are women and she is marrying a man.  She should have a marriage that is recognized as that between a man and a woman.  

There wasn't any need to talk about gay marriage at all or to use the slur.  It felt beneath elektra, whose reads are devastating and not as superficial and low hanging fruit as "homos"

[TrininisaScorp]

Y'all, I was crying moments into the start.  I am in agreement with all of the comments here.

Angel Curiel is truly a revelation to me.  On a show where I love all of these ppl, Papi is the one I look out for the most.  His earnest, sweet nature is so lovely within the bounds of how he must have come up (and how we first met him), and he's so damn funny too.  I can't wait to see what ABC does next, and I hope he has a lovely, long career b/c he is charismatic and wonderful!  I love Papi's reaction to Angel's vows and that those vows were a take on that speech he gave to Angel when they got together, that he's a prize, and she will see that.  I loved his moment at the beach at the very end just talking to another husband/father too.  The light that was shot in was beautiful.   P.S. Beto is the cutest little dude, man. 

David Zayas is a fav of mine way back from the Oz days (and Dexter). He adds something to everything he touches, and I felt that way here.  You can tell that he loves Angel, but like Papi said, there are conditions to that love in brown communities when you color outside of the lines. I was livid that he took Angel's money, while demeaning her whole existence.  It was the most realistic thing about the episode, and it stung.  I also hated that Angel walked herself down the aisle, but that was a statement in and of itself. 

The wedding itself was gorgeous. The opulence, honey!  Damn.  I started WEEPING when Cubby came through looking like an angel in his suit, and Papi's whole vibe with his groomsmen, though I missed Damon so much, encapsulated all the things I love about this show, these characters, the story, and the actors. When we moved to the ladies, I was already so in my feelings, but when Blanca started by giving her mama's cookbook I was GONE.  Add the hammer in a gd Tiffany's box and the reappearance of Candy in that KILLER outfit, and I felt like an exposed nerve.  And we weren't even to the wedding!  Indya Moore is the prettiest of humans, but, ITA with y'all...that makeup was wayyyyy too much.  I was a bit ambivalent about the dress with the mechanical flowers...cool, but it detracted from the beautiful Angel.  The moment Papi started reading the vows, I was like "wait a damn minute...is that I Swear?!"  The surreal move into a musical number was unexpected and kinda corny, but with this being the second to last episode of the series, I'll take it.  The actors sold the shit out of it too.  As mentioned, the backward hand hold between Papi and Ricky as Ricky started to sing, got me.  Dyllón is a force, and I hope to see him in more things too. 

The moments about the AIDS quilt made me so heartbroken, as did everyone's reaction to Pray's eye condition in it being the writing on the wall.  I don't know if I now attach this so strongly to Billy's IRL truth or what, but I just don't want to watch him die.  Pray is so damn ALIVE to me.  **weeps**

P.S. WTF was up with Elektra's whole "commitment ceremonies are good enough for..."?!  1) They got lucky the Papi was charming the Dominican lady and 2) if they get caught at ANY point in the future (insurance?), it is going to be a mess for them and Beto.  I always struggle with this crabs in a barrel mentality many marginalized communities have (I can say this b/c my South Asian ppl aren't a bed of roses).  Why do we need the majority to beat up down, when we do so fine a job ourselves?! Ugh, that's frustrating. 

I was born in '82, so the 90s was truly my coming of age.  All the terrible fashion and badass music. That said, I would hear a song and go "that song isn't that old" and look it up and it is, in fact, that fucking old.  Sigh.  Wasn't the 90s 10 yrs ago?!

Anywho, I am not emotionally prepared for next week.   

Edited June 1, 2021 by TrininisaScorp

[Scarlett45]

6 hours ago, TrininisaScorp said:

P.S. WTF was up with Elektra's whole "commitment ceremonies are good enough for..."?!  1) They got lucky the Papi was charming the Dominican lady and 2) if they get caught at ANY point in the future (insurance?), it is going to be a mess for them and Beto.  I always struggle with this crabs in a barrel mentality many marginalized communities have (I can say this b/c my South Asian ppl aren't a bed of roses).  Why do we need the majority to beat up down, when we do so fine a job ourselves?! Ugh, that's frustrating. 

Elektra's comment was absolutely awful- thank you for bringing that up @RealReality and @Blakeston. WTF.

[SnarkEnthusiast]

9 hours ago, RealReality said:

This was the weirdest comment that came out of nowhere.  

Elektra, especially elektra of this season hasn't shown evidence of having some issue with gay men.  Cubby and that other child were gay men.  Pray is a gay man, so is Ricky and id never seen elektra have a problem or think they deserve less as "sons" of the house.  

It was very shitty of her to say, but unfortunately rings true to me in terms of inter-community biases. Plenty of LGBT folks are more than happy to throw the other letters under the bus when mainstream legitimacy is on the line. It's the "pick me" mentality. Assimilation is the holy grail and Elektra is living vicariously through Angel. It makes sense that someone as power and status-obsessed as Elektra would salivate over the opportunity to have Angel's marriage legally recognized because it's a formal inauguration into cis, heterosexual society. She knew gay men couldn't have that and it made her feel superior in that moment, regardless of her friendships.

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

It was very shitty of her to say, but unfortunately rings true to me in terms of inter-community biases. Plenty of LGBT folks are more than happy to throw the other letters under the bus when mainstream legitimacy is on the line. It's the "pick me" mentality. Assimilation is the holy grail and Elektra is living vicariously through Angel. It makes sense that someone as power and status-obsessed as Elektra would salivate over the opportunity to have Angel's marriage legally recognized because it's a formal inauguration into cis, heterosexual society. She knew gay men couldn't have that and it made her feel superior in that moment, regardless of her friendships.

I see where you are coming from and I absolutely agree. Being the most "similar" to hetero-normative society was a way a lot of the LGBTQ+ community tried to gain legitimacy and acceptance "we are just like you, so value our humanity" type thing. Of course its not just the LGBTQ+ community that has done thus, I was using it as example specifically for Elektra here.

[tljgator]

12 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I know it's a nothing detail, but it was noticed!   

Yep. Kinda like them saying Disneyland, when I presume they meant Disney World (unless they went all the way to Cali, which almost no one on this coast does, lol).

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The fantasy aspects were wonderful to behold.  Whatever may come, they ALL had their moment.  So many never do.

I was deeply moved by the scene with Angel and her Pops.  Sure, it was heartbreaking for Angel, yet I felt the worst pain was his.  He knew he was denying each of them a wonderful love.  He decided his faith was worth it.  Just as with Elektra's mom, we saw a frightened and flawed human who was made to endure tremendous loss.  Monsters?  Hardly.   

The other moment which really got me was Lulu's chip.  Overcoming the self is the hardest thing any of us can do.  For addicts, it is everything.  

Seeing the unbridled joy from Dominique as she danced with the others right after the gifting was ultimate.  This was the most feminine Elektra we have yet seen.  How appealing!  Sure, she had a crude moment or two, but otherwise, she was living out her dream.  Yay.

Having the understated Pray was a great choice.  He knew it was NOT his day.  It was Angel's.  Seeing a bit of his physical decline was tough, but I choose to remember he shined as emcee.

Santa Monica/Venice beaches were among my very favorite places when I lived in L.A..  Not sure of the significance of a beach, or of L.A., but it was a nice thing to see.

  

  

[Crashcourse]

25 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Santa Monica/Venice beaches were among my very favorite places when I lived in L.A..  Not sure of the significance of a beach, or of L.A., but it was a nice thing to see.

So they really were in Disneyland, not Disney World?

[Coltee Gal]

Loved the episode. Hated Angel’s makeup and dress. The dress was really ill-fitting and not flattering. The makeup was really bad.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

So they really were in Disneyland, not Disney World?

Probably.  They really filmed in Santa Monica so it probably wasn't a mistake. 

I'm surprised by how much I like Papi.  I did not predict that in Season 1. 

[DrivingSideways]

I decided to put my irritation with the corny left turn this show took aside, and just enjoy it.  It was pretty cheesy though.  I Swear?  Ghost Candy was an eye roller too.

So how much did Elektra spend on this wedding?  I feel like she dropped hundreds of thousands of dollars on it.  I just don't see it being in Elektra's character to spend that much on someone else.  There's no reason why she, or any of the other ladies, wouldn't find a man to marry them. She acted like Angel was the only one who would ever get married.

What I did notice is that MJ Rodriguez has become a great actress.  The first seasons it was almost charming how bad the acting was on this show.  But her progression has kind of reminded me of Roseanne Barr, who went from very stiff in the first seasons of "Roseanne" to growing into the role surrounded by John Goodman and Laurie Metcalf.  MJ always makes me feel warm when she's on screen.  I'm going to miss this show, cheese and all.

[qtpye]

Good analysis. 

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, DrivingSideways said:

What I did notice is that MJ Rodriguez has become a great actress.  The first seasons it was almost charming how bad the acting was on this show.  But her progression has kind of reminded me of Roseanne Barr, who went from very stiff in the first seasons of "Roseanne" to growing into the role surrounded by John Goodman and Laurie Metcalf.  MJ always makes me feel warm when she's on screen.  I'm going to miss this show, cheese and all.

MJ has really grown in her talent. I am looking forward to seeing where she goes with other roles.

[mtlchick]

On 5/31/2021 at 2:19 AM, Surrealist said:

David Zayas

He's been in a number of things, but I most remember him on HBO's Oz.

Currently busting some of the Reagans' chops as the NY Governor on Blue Bloods as well.  Definitely "Hey, it's that guy!"

I enjoyed MOST of the wedding.  I mean, the scene with Angel and her bridesmaid was really sweet (I teared up when Lulu gave her the chip.)

The dress? Ehhhh.  The makeup? Gah.

"I'll Swear?"  I'm mixed.  So damn cheesy, but they wanted a fun moment.  Had this been set a few years later, you know it would have been "All My Life" by K Ci and Jojo. 

23 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

It was very shitty of her to say, but unfortunately rings true to me in terms of inter-community biases. Plenty of LGBT folks are more than happy to throw the other letters under the bus when mainstream legitimacy is on the line. It's the "pick me" mentality. Assimilation is the holy grail and Elektra is living vicariously through Angel. It makes sense that someone as power and status-obsessed as Elektra would salivate over the opportunity to have Angel's marriage legally recognized because it's a formal inauguration into cis, heterosexual society. She knew gay men couldn't have that and it made her feel superior in that moment, regardless of her friendships.

Elecktra's comment insinuating that a commitment ceremony wasn't enough was definitely odd (and I knew that Angel and Papi would ALMOST get caught but it was due to another oversight that they hadn't...so far.) But Angel is living out the dream some of the others couldn't.  I took it to be "it's a foot in the door.  One day we can kick it down but right now, we just need that inch for now."

[Lonesome Rhodes]

There were a couple of off notes for me in all the fun and delight of this ep.

First, Angel was just not a nice person.  She does not seem to have the "mom gene."  Yet, most everyone acted so syrupy and warm and loving.  The sentiments were over the top.  She may yet become warmer, but IRL that would be a stretch.  Esteban can't be a dad AND a mom.  He can't, by force of nature, "make" Angel change her fearful nature.  I do hope it all worked out.  Spectacularly.

I just can't get past the vow becoming a set piece out of "Glee."  What was the point of the prior scene where the groom shared that he was blocked/unsatisfied with his words?  Whatever it was, it was just too much for me that it became an off-Broadway production.  It was overlong, too.  Given the seriousness and beauty of Angel's expression of her passion and love, this choice seemed...cheap.  

 

[Crashcourse]

1 minute ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I just can't get past the vow becoming a set piece out of "Glee." 

Yes, that's exactly what it was!

3 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

First, Angel was just not a nice person.  She does not seem to have the "mom gene."  Yet, most everyone acted so syrupy and warm and loving.  The sentiments were over the top.  She may yet become warmer, but IRL that would be a stretch.  Esteban can't be a dad AND a mom.  He can't, by force of nature, "make" Angel change her fearful nature.  I do hope it all worked out.  Spectacularly.

And I agree about Angel.  I never got any "warmth" from her about anyone or anything. 

[Blakeston]

8 hours ago, mtlchick said:

Currently busting some of the Reagans' chops as the NY Governor on Blue Bloods as well.  Definitely "Hey, it's that guy!"

I enjoyed MOST of the wedding.  I mean, the scene with Angel and her bridesmaid was really sweet (I teared up when Lulu gave her the chip.)

The dress? Ehhhh.  The makeup? Gah.

"I'll Swear?"  I'm mixed.  So damn cheesy, but they wanted a fun moment.  Had this been set a few years later, you know it would have been "All My Life" by K Ci and Jojo. 

Elecktra's comment insinuating that a commitment ceremony wasn't enough was definitely odd (and I knew that Angel and Papi would ALMOST get caught but it was due to another oversight that they hadn't...so far.) But Angel is living out the dream some of the others couldn't.  I took it to be "it's a foot in the door.  One day we can kick it down but right now, we just need that inch for now."

I don't in any way fault her for wanting more than a commitment ceremony. No one should have to settle for one, and certainly not because of the sex listed on their birth certificate. The issue is with her saying that it's "fine for the homos" but not for her or Angel.

1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

There were a couple of off notes for me in all the fun and delight of this ep.

First, Angel was just not a nice person.  She does not seem to have the "mom gene."  Yet, most everyone acted so syrupy and warm and loving.  The sentiments were over the top.  She may yet become warmer, but IRL that would be a stretch.  Esteban can't be a dad AND a mom.  He can't, by force of nature, "make" Angel change her fearful nature.  I do hope it all worked out.  Spectacularly.

I just can't get past the vow becoming a set piece out of "Glee."  What was the point of the prior scene where the groom shared that he was blocked/unsatisfied with his words?  Whatever it was, it was just too much for me that it became an off-Broadway production.  It was overlong, too.  Given the seriousness and beauty of Angel's expression of her passion and love, this choice seemed...cheap.  

 

 Yeah, the writers have gone all out showing us that Papi is the greatest guy in the world, but there really aren't many positive things to say about Angel aside from her looks. Just another way that this show seems obsessed with the physical beauty of trans women.

Anyway, as great a guy as Papi is, I thought he was weirdly hostile in the scene where he was cooking with Beto. He's going to snap at a five-year-old because he couldn't break an egg with one hand in a single graceful movement? His irritation would have made more sense if Beto had smashed the egg between both hands or something like that.

Also, when you know someone has AIDS, and they're avoiding showing you their eyes, maybe don't say "Oh fuck!" when you get to see them. Especially if they don't look all that bad.