S03:E06 Something Old, Something New

[qtpye]

13 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

There were a couple of off notes for me in all the fun and delight of this ep.

First, Angel was just not a nice person.  She does not seem to have the "mom gene."  Yet, most everyone acted so syrupy and warm and loving.  The sentiments were over the top.  She may yet become warmer, but IRL that would be a stretch.  Esteban can't be a dad AND a mom.  He can't, by force of nature, "make" Angel change her fearful nature.  I do hope it all worked out.  Spectacularly.

I just can't get past the vow becoming a set piece out of "Glee."  What was the point of the prior scene where the groom shared that he was blocked/unsatisfied with his words?  Whatever it was, it was just too much for me that it became an off-Broadway production.  It was overlong, too.  Given the seriousness and beauty of Angel's expression of her passion and love, this choice seemed...cheap.  

 

 

13 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Yes, that's exactly what it was!

And I agree about Angel.  I never got any "warmth" from her about anyone or anything. 

 

11 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I don't in any way fault her for wanting more than a commitment ceremony. No one should have to settle for one, and certainly not because of the sex listed on their birth certificate. The issue is with her saying that it's "fine for the homos" but not for her or Angel.

 Yeah, the writers have gone all out showing us that Papi is the greatest guy in the world, but there really aren't many positive things to say about Angel aside from her looks. Just another way that this show seems obsessed with the physical beauty of trans women.

Anyway, as great a guy as Papi is, I thought he was weirdly hostile in the scene where he was cooking with Beto. He's going to snap at a five-year-old because he couldn't break an egg with one hand in a single graceful movement? His irritation would have made more sense if Beto had smashed the egg between both hands or something like that.

Also, when you know someone has AIDS, and they're avoiding showing you their eyes, maybe don't say "Oh fuck!" when you get to see them. Especially if they don't look all that bad.

Yeah, Angel gets a lot of privilege because of her beauty and how she can easily pass for a woman. Compare her journey to the relative hard road that Blanca (who is also attractive but we are supposed to believe comes off masculine) has had to travel.

The first season had a man begging to be with her and the last season has another man doing backflips so she is happy. I liked the episode but had to fast forward with Papi singing and it becoming Glee. I think RM felt like they had to build Papi up to be perfect in order for him to be worthy of Angel and the actor really sold it.

Sadly, Angel's privilege is very in keeping with the pressure that Cisgender women have to be conventionally attractive and ornamental but Angel has the added pressure of "proving" that Transwomen are "good enough" when all women (and men) should be respected regardless of the way they look.

I like the actress who plays Angel. and I think Ryan M added Beto because he wanted to give this couple the "happy family" ending. Too bad, RM just assumes that all women secretly desire to be mothers and are going to be good at it once they tap into their nurturing side.

[Hiyo]

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Angel gets a lot of privilege because of her beauty and how she can easily pass for a woman

Unpopular opinion but! I always felt she out of the core 5, Angel passed the least as a woman. This season she does look more feminine, bit if I had to choose, I'd say Lulu can pass the best out of them.

[Surrealist]

9 hours ago, qtpye said:

RM just assumes that all women secretly desire to be mothers and are going to be good at it once they tap into their nurturing side.

This drives me nuts too. I've never wanted kids. And I've never felt like I'm missing out, or that my life has less meaning. I can understand why Angel wouldn't have wanted to become a mother.

[RealReality]

On 6/2/2021 at 5:19 PM, Blakeston said:

I don't in any way fault her for wanting more than a commitment ceremony. No one should have to settle for one, and certainly not because of the sex listed on their birth certificate. The issue is with her saying that it's "fine for the homos" but not for her or Angel.

 Yeah, the writers have gone all out showing us that Papi is the greatest guy in the world, but there really aren't many positive things to say about Angel aside from her looks. Just another way that this show seems obsessed with the physical beauty of trans women

Also, when you know someone has AIDS, and they're avoiding showing you their eyes, maybe don't say "Oh fuck!" when you get to see them. Especially if they don't look all that bad.

Or maybe, maybe, just let them keep the fucking glasses on.  

There have been enough AIDS patients in the community that they know blindness is possible.  So yeah, even if the glasses are odd but maybe leave it alone.  

Pray is holding on for as long as he can.  I think about how brave it must be to know the horror you'll face and not just give up and wait to die.    

Every moment about the aids quilt was just....so sad.  

As for Angel, it's a good point I don't know if I had ever thought about whether she was a good person.  In shows you have the heros and villains and I tend to just assume the heros must be good.  

But in retrospect you all have me thinking and I see your point.  

I think her decision to send her father money suggests a good person, because she was literally  sleeping on a park bench and she took care of that man before herself.  

I also think that it's good in Angel for committing to raise a little boy.  I cannot imagine the trauma that's going to dredge up.  

Not to mention the endless fear she'd live in if she were ever "clocked" as a trans woman raising a little boy even in California in the 90s.  

[Scarlett45]

As far as Angel being a "good person"- I dont think Angel is a "good person" the way Blanca is a good person- always thinking of others and trying to be comfort and a support- but I do think Angel will try her best to be kind to Beto, because she wants to be with Papi, and this is important to him. There are plenty of people who were good step parents because they wanted the relationship with the adult, and became friends/a positive influence to the child. 

I didn't see this as an example that Angel (and all women) want to be mothers, I saw this as Papi was making a choice to do what he felt was morally right regarding his son (who's own mother had died) and Angel, was standing by him, because Papi was her man and the person she wanted to build a life with, that life would now include Beto.

Angel can be selfish and flighty and immature. Papi is just the type of partner she needs to round out her worst edges. 

I still contend Angel's father was an EVIL POS to take MONEY from his CHILD after he threw her out. If she isnt good enough to live in your house when she was 16, she isnt good enough to take money from. 

[Empress1]

On 5/31/2021 at 8:51 PM, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Papi's speech to the groomsmen brought tears to my eyes. He's just such a pure, loving, wholeheartedly accepting person

I straight up cried. I thought it was beautiful. I was more moved by that than by the ceremony, honestly.

[Surrealist]

Everyone needs a Papi in their life.

[gatopretoNYC]

On 6/1/2021 at 1:08 AM, RealReality said:

I'm just chopping these invisible onions... I'm not crying!

 

[aradia22]

Ricky has become such a fun character. I don't think he ever got his due but I am happy to see him living a drama-free life with reasonable success. Being neglected by the writers has actually left him in a good place. 

Beto is almost unbearably adorable.

I thought the scene at the diner between Angel and her dad was pretty solid. She hasn't gotten a scene like that in a while. I did think it was weird that the show was sidestepping the issues brought up in last thread's episode about how it would be legal. Of course, he threw some bigotry on top of it so I get why she was offended but he wasn't wrong to ask about her birth certificate and the law. Then with her nightmare... Why didn't the characters think of this until a week before the wedding? What was the plan??? Now she's unclockable? So she can't submit fraudulent documents but she can try to pass knowing the state wouldn't recognize the marriage if they knew? This show...

Esteban was teaching Beto a nice lesson until "he ain't afraid to forgive. A real man stays no matter what." I couldn't help but wonder at Janet Mock putting those words in his mouth (she has writing/directing credit on the episode) in light of her cheating on Curiel.

lol, Elektra is spending money like crazy. At least Angel and Esteban already had an apartment.

Well, I guess they're not returning those dresses with the rain. The other women wearing not just wedding gowns but VEILS. Angel is... very secure as a bride. 

I'm glad they wrote in a story reason why there was no one else standing up with Esteban because those three were a weird grouping for groomsmen. I really felt the loss of Damon. I think Ricky is the only one you could argue that he's close to. And the ghost of Cubby.

Isn't the something old, new, etc. stuff you're supposed to wear on your wedding day?

lol, oh, good, I worried we weren't going to get the ghost of Candy as well. I did love the outfits that the ghosts got. They were both fabulous.

The wedding outfits were great. They actually pulled focus from all the wedding dresses. I loved Pray Tell, Blanca, and Lemar in particular.

Pray officiating just felt right. I don't know if I loved Angel's dress but I did like the choice to put subtle hints of pink in the flowers so she could stand out a little from all the other wedding dresses in the room. The train was pretty.

"Is this brother reciting the lyrics to I Swear" had me dying. In a real wedding, the singing would have been annoying but in the context of the show, the slightly off-key singing was sweet. That was a crowd that would appreciate a stunt.

[aradia22]

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Had this been set a few years later, you know it would have been "All My Life" by K Ci and Jojo. 

Ha! This reminds me of a New Zealand movie called The Breaker Upperers which does use that song for their musical moment. When it's a song like "I Swear" it's the wedding equivalent of a singer/band trying to write a Christmas song. 

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First, Angel was just not a nice person.  She does not seem to have the "mom gene."  Yet, most everyone acted so syrupy and warm and loving.  The sentiments were over the top.  She may yet become warmer, but IRL that would be a stretch.  Esteban can't be a dad AND a mom.  He can't, by force of nature, "make" Angel change her fearful nature.  I do hope it all worked out.  Spectacularly.

It would have made much more sense to magically give Blanca a child through plot contrivances. I do think it all happened too quickly because they wanted to have the bombshell right before the wedding but then they also wanted Beto to be the ring bearer and for them to go on a family honeymoon. Building those relationships would take time, especially after his mom died fairly recently. 

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Yeah, the writers have gone all out showing us that Papi is the greatest guy in the world, but there really aren't many positive things to say about Angel aside from her looks.

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Yeah, Angel gets a lot of privilege because of her beauty and how she can easily pass for a woman. Compare her journey to the relative hard road that Blanca (who is also attractive but we are supposed to believe comes off masculine) has had to travel.

I do think she benefits from pretty privilege but the other problem is the counterbalances are gone. Angel was always a little self-involved but she has been kind and she overall seems like a decent person. She just doesn't have the altruism of Blanca or the newfound generosity of Elektra. But without Candy and Lulu acting like mean girls, or the bigger show villains, Angel comes across worse in comparison to the rest of the current core cast. It's a little bit of a shame they never gave her any ambition besides modeling. Though it can be a skill for good models, it still places the emphasis on her appearance.