All Creatures Great And Small (2021) - General Discussion

[LittleIggy]

10 hours ago, Packerbrewerbadger said:

For all those wondering about the “ animal light” episodes…… original series was much more animal orientated but  I read an interesting article on how new laws have put much tighter restrictions on how animals are handled in the series.  This might be one factor.  
 

Watch the vet shows on NatGeo Wild if you want to see vets and animals. Dr. Pol is always sticking his arm inside a cow!

[crankcase]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

I dunno but what kind of  housekeeper would not so much as raise an objection to cricket being played inside the house? I'd have thought Mrs. Hall would have ordered them to take their practice session to the back alley- even if she's the score keeper? BTW, why did even the hoity toities seem to consider her a totally unbiased ref- with at least two players of the opposing team living under the roof she was working in?

As in baseball, the cricket official in charge is called the “umpire.” That role was handled by Bert Chapman, not Audrey, who understood and posted the scoring when she wan’t commenting on the lack of understanding of cricket tactics on the part of some of the key players. The apparent intellectual gap between her and Siegfried grows larger in her favor with each episode.

It would be totally up to Siegfried, who was present, as to whether they would throw a ball around inside his house. Of course, if he and Audrey were secretly married, you would ne correct.

And Beef Wellington ain’t easy. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by crankcase

[Llywela]

11 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

Why didn't James know anything about cricket? I could understand if he wasn't interested in sports, per se, but he didn't seem to know any of the rules.

If you have never been interested in a sport, it is very easy to never learn any of the rules. Especially in the days before TV and mass media. These days, we absorb information even about things we aren't interested in, because we see them all around us, but for James, if he didn't play cricket in school and never went to watch any matches, he'd never have had much opportunity to learn the rules.

6 hours ago, crankcase said:

What kinds of places and with what kinds of men has Audrey been that she knows more than Siegfried about cricket bowling strategies and techniques?

I'm not sure you mean by 'with what kinds of men has she been'. A woman knowing stuff about cricket really isn't that outlandish. All it means is that, unlike James (and, perhaps, Siegfried), she has watched plenty of cricket matches in her life and was interested enough to pay attention. Plenty of people take an interest in sports without playing themselves. And the rules, etc., aren't as hard to learn as people think, for someone who actually wants to learn them. Maybe Audrey's father was a keen cricketer, she might have picked up her interest from him. I don't think her knowing more about cricket tactics means she is more intelligent than Siegfried, either. It just says she's more interested in the sport than he is. They are different people with different skills, knowledge base, and areas of interest, which is perfectly normal.

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Llywela

[Haleth]

On 1/9/2022 at 6:40 AM, Haleth said:

Wait, what?  Season 3 starts tonight?  I had no idea until I read a random article on the home page.

When I posted this a month ago I could have sworn there had already been 2 seasons.  It wasn't until yesterday that I found out, no, I had not seen a second season, the second season was just beginning, so now I'm scrambling to catch up.  Watched the first two episodes and immediately felt calm and peaceful.  Such a lovely show with such charming characters.  People being nice to each other.  

Breaks my heart that the war is looming and life will be difficult for a while.

[Good Queen Jane]

Wasn't Mrs. Hall glued to the radio during the cricket match in London that Mrs. P attended when she left Tricki with his "Uncle Herriot" earlier this season? Also Mrs. P appears to be the sponsor of the local cricket match. I would say that both Mrs. Hall and Mrs. P are cricket fans, much like my grandmother was a huge baseball fan with the knowledge of statistics to prove it.

[Doublemint]

OK - this series is not All Creatures Great and Small.   It is a series all about the people in it.  There is no interaction with the local farmers and animals at all.  I'm enjoying it as something else altogether.   I will say the cricket match was way too long, it dominated the episode.  Also I would have loved to see what Mrs. Pumpfrey's Hodgkins would have done with the Tricki Woo issue!   That would have been priceless - but, alas, there is no Hodgkins in this series.   The new Mrs. Pumpfrey is fine and the dog is wonderful.  I'm still missing the old Tristan (Peter Davies)?  This Calum Woodhouse is just too laid back for the role.   I wish they would show the old series right after this one ends, so those who never saw it would see what I'm so poorly trying to describe.  

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Doublemint said:

OK - this series is not All Creatures Great and Small.   It is a series all about the people in it.  There is no interaction with the local farmers and animals at all.  I'm enjoying it as something else altogether.   I will say the cricket match was way too long, it dominated the episode.  Also I would have loved to see what Mrs. Pumpfrey's Hodgkins would have done with the Tricki Woo issue!   That would have been priceless - but, alas, there is no Hodgkins in this series.   The new Mrs. Pumpfrey is fine and the dog is wonderful.  I'm still missing the old Tristan (Peter Davies)?  This Calum Woodhouse is just too laid back for the role.   I wish they would show the old series right after this one ends, so those who never saw it would see what I'm so poorly trying to describe.  

I'm with you. I'll still watch it but my poor husband is having endure my constant bitching about how little this show resembles the books and the original show. 

[Caoimhe]

12 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm with you. I'll still watch it but my poor husband is having endure my constant bitching about how little this show resembles the books and the original show. 

Mine saw the first episode and declared it a soap that used the basic premise / characters of the books and the original show.  I still “watch”  but am usually doing something else at the same time so I don’t pay much attention.  The HD scenery is beautiful, otherwise I mightn’t bother.  The original is on BritBox and is just comforting to watch.  Peter Davison was the perfect Tristan!!

[MrAtoz]

7 hours ago, Llywela said:

If you have never been interested in a sport, it is very easy to never learn any of the rules.

As seen in all the people, even today, who will dismissively refer to any and all athletic competitions as "Sportsball."

[crankcase]

8 hours ago, Llywela said:

If you have never been interested in a sport, it is very easy to never learn any of the rules. Especially in the days before TV and mass media. These days, we absorb information even about things we aren't interested in, because we see them all around us, but for James, if he didn't play cricket in school and never went to watch any matches, he'd never have had much opportunity to learn the rules.

I'm not sure you mean by 'with what kinds of men has she been'. A woman knowing stuff about cricket really isn't that outlandish. All it means is that, unlike James (and, perhaps, Siegfried), she has watched plenty of cricket matches in her life and was interested enough to pay attention. Plenty of people take an interest in sports without playing themselves. And the rules, etc., aren't as hard to learn as people think, for someone who actually wants to learn them. Maybe Audrey's father was a keen cricketer, she might have picked up her interest from him. I don't think her knowing more about cricket tactics means she is more intelligent than Siegfried, either. It just says she's more interested in the sport than he is. They are different people with different skills, knowledge base, and areas of interest, which is perfectly normal.

 

The devil is in the details. A story is being told, and it may very well be being told in part through the details. They didn’t need to have Audrey make a dish that required the skill and expertise necessary for the very high class and unusual Beef Wellington, they didn’t need to show her more knowledgable about cricket tactics than her employer who’d been playing the game since childhood, they didn’t need to have only her be seen reading a novel (which I frankly doubt any other character besides Mrs. P has done since high school, if they’re anything like American men), they didn’t need to show her being a surprisingly excellent marksman (sorry, feminists) out in the country where many had guns. None of these individual items mean that much alone, but they are beginning to add up.

Edited February 8, 2022 by crankcase
x

[crankcase]

In the first season of ‘78, Siegfried and his date are dressed for a formal event, and as they exit, he slaps her on the ass as though he were ushering a horse back to the stables. Such a scene would be inconceivable today. Mrs. Hall was nothing more than a working servant, Helen a trouble-free pretty face. You miss the animals of ‘78, do you? Well, its women were hardly more than that. 

[Llywela]

3 hours ago, crankcase said:

The devil is in the details. A story is being told, and it may very well be being told in part through the details. They didn’t need to have Audrey make a dish that required the skill and expertise necessary for the very high class and unusual Beef Wellington, they didn’t need to show her more knowledgable about cricket tactics than her employer who’d been playing the game since childhood, they didn’t need to have only her be seen reading a novel (which I frankly doubt any other character besides Mrs. P has done since high school, if they’re anything like American men), they didn’t need to show her being a surprisingly excellent marksman (sorry, feminists) out in the country where many had guns. None of these individual items mean that much alone, but they are beginning to add up.

Yes, a story is being told, and we are being given information about one of the characters that tells us more about who she is. That's usually considered a good thing, fleshing the character out. She knows a lot about cricket because she enjoys the sport, that tells us something about her; we already know she's a fairly detail-oriented person, so it tracks that she'd have learned a lot about a thing that interests her. Siegfried has played the sport off and on since boyhood, but that he does so in a careless way, not paying much attention to the finer detail of the rules, also tells us something about him, and also tracks with what we already know of his eccentric personality. None of that seems at all out of place to me. It helps to flesh out both characters, in different ways, just as James's total ignorance of the sport, and Tristan's memories of playing with his father also told us more about them. That's the whole point of a sub-plot like this: it uses one activity to highlight different facets of a wide variety of characters in the ensemble cast.

Why does it seem unlikely that a woman would enjoy reading? The show is set in 1938, not 1700. People have enjoyed reading for pleasure ever since the novel was invented! And yes, that does include the lower classes. My very working class grandparents who got married in the 1930s had as many books in their house as they could afford. As far back as the 19th century, working men were clubbing together to build institutes where they could read and learn. The great unwashed weren't as ignorant as upper class PR would have you believe! Mrs Hall is an educated woman who lived a full life before taking a job as a housekeeper in a small middle class household, she belongs to a very different class of servant than the type seen in Downton Abbey, for instance, who are mostly career servants who've been working their way up through the ranks of a grand mansion from a young age (and the couple of decades of social change separating this show from Downton Abbey are also absolutely crucial; I really can't emphasise enough how much the Downton Abbey model of service was on its last legs at this point, while a small household like Siegfried's would never have operated on those lines to begin with, so they can't be compared). She is allowed to have interests outside of her work, it makes her more of a rounded character that she does.

As for the Beef Wellington, it really isn't such an outlandish dish for her to attempt as you seem to think, for a dinner party where she wanted the household to come off looking well. Ambitious, yes, but not the slightest bit farfetched.

She can shoot because she served with the women's reserves during WWI, that has already been established.

This version of the show has chosen to develop its female characters and make them a fully fledged part of the ensemble cast. I understand that many here are nostalgic for the more animal-focused previous adaptation, but I don't see what's wrong with that. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Llywela

[John Potts]

21 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Perhaps because he was raised in Glasgow - a working class city in Scotland.  I could be way off on this, but I don't think the Scots are as much into cricket as the English. 

Cricket is (traditionally, at least) very much an English thing and wasn't played in Scotland - so much so that Scotland was actually termed a "Minor County" (equivalent to Devon or Norfolk) when it came to cricket (think Minor League Baseball)!

[tennisgurl]

I find cricket to be such a fascinatingly confusing sport, like some kind of incomprehensible hybrid of croquet and baseball. Plus I loved all the pre WWII era "sporting" clothes. 

I am glad that Helen and Hugh managed to clear the air and that he seems to have moved on to the Jean Harlow looking blond. I am happy that they have kept Hugh as a pretty good guy, one who is honestly way more understanding for being ditched at the aisle then a lot of people would be, even if its for the best in the long term. Now James and Helen can hopefully move forward with a lot less drama. I do prefer the more animal heavy episodes, but I did like the episode.

I kind of wish we had two different threads for the show, one for people who are familiar with the books or the older show, and one for people who are new to the story. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by tennisgurl

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I kind of wish we had two different threads for the show, one for people who are familiar with the books or the older show, and one for people who are new to the story. 

That would be awesome. A couple of other topics have that.

[dargosmydaddy]

19 hours ago, Blergh said:

I dunno but what kind of  housekeeper would not so much as raise an objection to cricket being played inside the house? I'd have thought Mrs. Hall would have ordered them to take their practice session to the back alley- even if she's the score keeper?

Not only did she not object, she actually took over pitching when Siegfried was on the phone with Mrs. P! (At least, I assume so, since James was still getting pitched to by an unseen person, and Tristan was next to him/ coaching him.) I found that highly amusing, if unrealistic. (The in-the-house part, that is... Mrs. Hall being able to pitch was par for the course.)

[OlderThanDirt]

If James knew very little about cricket, how did he have the white flannels and the cabled vest? It doesn't seem like it would be part of his wardrobe.

[Leeds]

 

On 2/7/2022 at 5:56 PM, AZChristian said:

I thought the first mention of Siegfried's mother was in the first episode of the first season in this reincarnation of the show . . . rewatched it, but didn't find the reference (but I'm pretty sure Mrs. Hall told James that Siegfried had "gone to visit his mother.")

 

I'm pretty sure that Siegfried's use of "Going to visit Mother" was a euphemism for him spending time with one of his many lady friends!

Edited February 9, 2022 by Leeds

[Quilt Fairy]

45 minutes ago, OlderThanDirt said:

If James knew very little about cricket, how did he have the white flannels and the cabled vest? It doesn't seem like it would be part of his wardrobe.

I wondered about that, too, but then I figured he probably borrowed Tristan's since he wasn't planning on playing. 

[Leeds]

For those of you who are confused, here are the rules of cricket!

[crankcase]

@Llywela

Wrens were not “reserves.” There would be no reason to teach them to shoot. Who knows where she learned it.

There was nothing at all unusual about any woman reading a book. It was the contrast with the fact that no other character, especially not Siegfried, was ever seen doing it. This was meant as a response to those who consider her beneath him.

(When Gatsby had initially poor sales, Fitzgerald rued that he hadn’t done justice to Daisy, saying he knew many more women read novels than men did.)

What I was suggesting regarding the display of Audrey’s diverse set of talents is that it was a means of establishing a basis for the eventual romantic endgame. That Siegfried, a most fastidious man in his profession and dress, engages in a competitive ego-driven male pissing contest in a careless manner, is implausible, to say the least. For Audrey to be more aware of tactical nuances amounts to a comparison of intellects, hers being more analytical.  (Let’s remember Siegfried never went to university, and there were great barriers against women of any social status doing so, especially in science.)

What makes this iteration most different, and in my opinion far more interesting than ‘78, is in the portrayal of the women, all the women: “Mrs.” Hall and Helen (both completely redesigned from the ground up), Anne Chapman (Black in a deeply racist society), Margot (La Belle Dame Sans Merci, incarnate), Dorothy (a Wallis Simpson motoring to Yorkshire for more notches in her bedpost), Diana (as old as Siegfried, mature, funny, no-nonsense). They are all fleshed out, all more complex than anything in the books or ‘78. And a brief synopsis of the last episode of S2 suggests even Mrs. P will ne opened up (maybe made possible by Hodge being younger than Rigg.)

The men, however, haven’t changed. They never do.

Edited February 9, 2022 by crankcase
x

[seacliffsal]

I so wanted to love this show.  I watched the 1st season and then this season in quick succession.  Overall, I find it to be quite underwhelming.  Far too much human interaction that doesn't ring true to the era.  I am not a fan of Mrs. Hall interjecting herself into every action and conversation.  I am also not a fan of Mrs. Hall not doing her job-the three coats with cow digestive yuck all over them and then telling Siegfried to darn his own clothes.  I'm not confining her to "women's work," but I am expecting her to do the work associated with being the housekeeper.  I couldn't believe that she was being semi-rude to Siegfried's date for Tristan's birthday dinner or to Tristan's date who mistakenly thought she was Siegfried's wife (hey, not everyone knows all the business of one of the local veterarians in town).  

As they are modernizing many of the characters and behaviors, I think they should have modernized their view on spaying/neutering dogs and cats.  Of course they should have neutered Trickie Poo, but instead they celebrated that he could "be himself."  Yep, and that is why we have overcrowded animal shelters.  This is a story that they could have just left out if they didn't want to present "fixing" as the far better option.  If they want a story with cute puppies, then just state that Trickie got out-don't celebrate "he's a male doing male freedom things."  

I do like Tristan and James.  I absolutely love the scenery and the occasional animals.  So, yes, as the show will be back for seasons 3 and 4, so will I.  But, I do wish they would leave some of the overly wrought dramatic stories out.  Maybe create the soap opera version of this show and then have two shows instead of just one.  Maybe some like "All my Loves Great and Small..."

[Haleth]

Omigosh, why were they playing cricket in the house?  I was waiting for a window to be broken.

On 2/8/2022 at 11:11 PM, Leeds said:

For those of you who are confused, here are the rules of cricket!

Thank you for that.  It was all Calvinball to me.

Do you think Hugh knew James threw the match?  (Fortunately for James it's easier for him to try to lose than try to win.)

I was a little surprised Mrs Hall sat with the guests at Tristan's birthday party.  But... whatever.

I can't believe Mrs Pomphrey would breed Tricki Woo to anything less than another pedigreed pomeranian.  

Edited February 10, 2022 by Haleth

[Llywela]

5 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Omigosh, why were they playing cricket in the house?  I was waiting for a window to be broken.

😁 I mean, I also play cricket in the house, but with a 6 year old and a plastic bat and a very soft ball...

[dargosmydaddy]

5 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

and then telling Siegfried to darn his own clothes. 

Did she? I thought she seemed exasperated that he was only noticing the hole now, but I could have sworn she then told him to leave it out for her to darn. And then she referenced it again later, saying she was about to do it while clock guy was working on the clock.

[Daff]

On 2/9/2022 at 12:10 AM, crankcase said:

Who knows where she learned it.

She looked directly at another character at the fete and said service in the WRNS trained her. That’s the story and if it strays from actual history, that’s on the writers. 

[LittleIggy]

On 2/10/2022 at 6:46 PM, dargosmydaddy said:

Did she? I thought she seemed exasperated that he was only noticing the hole now, but I could have sworn she then told him to leave it out for her to darn. And then she referenced it again later, saying she was about to do it while clock guy was working on the clock.

You are correct. She didn’t tell Siegfried to darn his own pants. 
I loved the original series and the books, but it has been decades since I watched/read them. I’m enjoying the new series on its own merits. 

[Badger]

Regarding housekeepers eating with the family:  Does anyone remember "The Three Lives of Thomasina?"  It was a Disney movie set in 1912 about a widowed Scottish vet, his young daughter and her cat who serves as kind of what we would call "an emotional support animal."  

Anyway, they have a housekeeper who has her meals with the family just like in "All Creatures Great and Small."  

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, Badger said:

Regarding housekeepers eating with the family:  Does anyone remember "The Three Lives of Thomasina?"  It was a Disney movie set in 1912 about a widowed Scottish vet, his young daughter and her cat who serves as kind of what we would call "an emotional support animal."  

Anyway, they have a housekeeper who has her meals with the family just like in "All Creatures Great and Small."  

I've watched that movie! It's been so long that I don't remember much about it except for the cat and it has Patrick McGoohan. LOL 

I imagine whether the housekeeper eats with the family probably depends a bit on the family's formality level but also whether or not there is a woman of the house. So, though I'd agree it can seem a bit out of bounds for the time period, I don't consider it unthinkable either. 

[Badger]

The little girl was played by Karen Dotrice who was Jane Banks in Mary Poppins.   Matthew Garber who played Michael Banks is also in it.

Also, the big conflict in the film is set up when the veterinarian father chooses to operate on a blind man's guide dog rather than on Thomasina the cat because the dog is obviously more useful.

 

[Zella]

Just now, Badger said:

The little girl was played by Karen Dotrice who was Jane Banks in Mary Poppins.   Matthew Garber who played Michael Banks is also in it.

Also, the big conflict in the film is set up when the veterinarian father chooses to operate on a blind man's guide dog rather than on Thomasina the cat because the dog is obviously more useful.

 

I watched this movie because we showed it to kids at the library where I work, but between this and the plot synopsis on Wikipedia, it's a lot odder and darker than I remember. Hopefully didn't traumatize any of our little moviegoers too badly. 

[Llywela]

15 hours ago, Zella said:

I imagine whether the housekeeper eats with the family probably depends a bit on the family's formality level but also whether or not there is a woman of the house. So, though I'd agree it can seem a bit out of bounds for the time period, I don't consider it unthinkable either. 

Yeah. Members of my own family were in service within living memory, and I've read quite a few books delving into the lives of people (mostly women) in service in this era, not historical fiction but first-hand accounts of the experiences of real people who worked in the industry. Their experiences varied enormously, especially those placed in very small households. Some did become almost like part of the family, while others were treated appallingly. It really did depend on the nature and personalities of the individual employers.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Llywela

[Haleth]

9 hours ago, Badger said:

Regarding housekeepers eating with the family:  Does anyone remember "The Three Lives of Thomasina?"  It was a Disney movie set in 1912 about a widowed Scottish vet, his young daughter and her cat who serves as kind of what we would call "an emotional support animal."  

Anyway, they have a housekeeper who has her meals with the family just like in "All Creatures Great and Small."  

Omigosh!  And the beautiful witch lady in the woods who takes care of animals and heals Thomasina.  I wanted to be her when I grew up.  Still do AAMOF.

I think if the show had gone with an older Mrs Hall as in the original series it would have been strange for her to eat with the family.  Old customs and all.  The younger Mrs Hall is more modern and more of a family member than a servant.  I wonder what the snooty rich girl thought about that.

 

 

[dleighg]

15 minutes ago, Haleth said:

The younger Mrs Hall

I just started watching Deadwater Fell (only filmed 2 years ago as I recall) and "Mrs Hall" is playing a mother of young kids/classroom teacher. I was surprised at how believable she is at either somewhat different age! (She's 45)

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Omigosh!  And the beautiful witch lady in the woods who takes care of animals and heals Thomasina.  I wanted to be her when I grew up.  Still do AAMOF.

So did I. And I still do too!

[Leeds]

I'm finally re-reading the books, and already, when James arrives for his scheduled interview, Siegfried is late because he is visiting "mother."  Just a few chapters later, James goes on his first solo call because "Farnon had gone off to Branston to see his mother again.  A devoted son I thought wonderingly.  And he said he would be back late so the old lady must keep unusual hours."  When Siegfried rolls home, "His thin cheeks were flushed and he smelt pleasantly of gin.  I was surprised to see that he was wearing evening dress."

So I know things in the current adaptation have been significantly altered if not made up of plain cloth, but I'm pretty sure "Mother" plays the same role!

[possibilities]

Was that a different dog playing Jess this episode? 

[HoodlumSheep]

Pretty episode! 

Glad the cows are gonna be alright :')

Dare I hope they're finally bringing back the Mrs. Hall/son storyline after it's been ignored the entire season? Tied into the looming war it seems.

[possibilities]

Is next week the last we'll see until 2023?

[Sharpie66]

I watched the whole season when it started streaming on the PBS Access site, and this is my favorite of the lot. It had the romances, both Helen/James and Mrs. Hall/ her clock fixer. It had animal emergencies, with both a sad conclusion and a few happy ones. It had the landscapes (where Helen said yes was just stunning!). It had the interesting human clientele, between Cranford, the Dalbys and Mrs. Donovan. It had the buildup to the war, an element I appreciated this season since it is set in 1938 and that looming threat was a fact of life in Europe. And best of all, it had the families—the Herriots, the Aldersons, and the one at Skeldale House.

I really like how the writers have developed all three families and their dynamics this season. Mrs. Herriot has annoyed me, but I can see why she’s been fixated on getting James home—the countryside is utterly foreign to her, she has a husband out of a job, and her boy is hours away, with a possible war on the horizon. Mr. Herriot is just wonderful—I love his big hug for Helen. Everyone at Skeldale House giving James grief over proposing was so funny, especially Siegfried’s quotations.

As for the Aldersons, well, that’s been my big discovery this season! Mr. Alderson acts like the gruff farmer, but he loves and really knows his daughters deeply. He was just waiting for James to ask him, because he had that ring waiting. And Jenny just might be my favorite character this season. Her teenaged acting out in episode 1 moved in a believable way to her becoming the one running the household in this ep. Her expression of sheer delight over James and Helen was just terrific.

BTW, I loved that stray dog! He had the coat of a wolfhound with the body structure of a smallish greyhound.

[Blergh]

Interesting that Mrs. Hall actually described the absent and/or late  Mr. Hall as 'a good,kind man' in contrast to how Dorothy had called him a 'brute' and had praised her friend for 'leaving' him! Yet, even then she admitted that he had come home from WWII with wounds on the inside. I wonder if we'll learn how the marriage ended and will we ever learn about what's become of their seemingly troubled son Edward? Well, it sure seemed that her walk with the clockmaker got her to let her hair down (figuratively) more than expected. Interesting that, she seems to be the only character who picked up on the then-Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's self-congratulatory speeches playing on the radio in the background AND somehow was prescient enough to realize that his talks with Hitler wouldn't prevent war from happening. 

I must say that James's proposal and Helen's acceptance were both far more original than the usual 'will you marry me?/ Yes!' deals - and, yes, it actually fit James's character more than to have had him get all treackly. 

 

Funny that Mrs. Herriot seemed to be the first character who got put off by wafts of rural farm smells despite urban slums not exactly smelling like roses either. Even Mrs. Pomphrey shrugged off the wafts far better than Mrs. H. Thankfully, despite her blabbing about James's Glasgow offer and somewhat compelling James to FINALLY spell out to her his actual intentions, once Mr. Herriot said that their son's happiness was ALL that was important to them, she backed down instead of attempting to make her own stink about it. Nice touch (though no surprise) that Mr. Herriot was charmed by Helen from the start and needed no persuading to give his son his personal blessing.

Also, Mr. Alderson sure proved that this surfacely simple man of few words was actually quite deep- even having saved his late wife's ring so James could use it for Helen (instead of selling it off as soon as she died to help with mounting farm expenses). IIRC, Hugh had bought his OWN ring for Helen. But then again, despite Hugh turning out to have been the actual landowner of their farm, it seemed Mr. Alderson had just grudgingly accepted Hugh for a potential son-in-law instead of actually encouraging him to become that much less having given his actual blessing which he DID for James. But then again, it seems for all his gruffness, he still carried the torch for the late Mrs. Alderson AND wanted the best for their daughters even if their happiness wouldn't guarantee their financial security. 

Liked Tristan's subplot of persuading Mrs. Donovan to take on the stray after her own beloved dog had died after being hit by the car. I wonder if Mrs. Donovan might have been an Irish Traveller since she seemed to live with in a squatters' camp with others AND expressly told the others to leave Tristan be since she'd invited him. Yeah, I knew she saw through his claiming to taking the stray to the dog pound to be killed if she didn't immediately adopt said stray. 

SO much sure got covered in this episode. Of course, the question is will James and Helen actually pull off their intended wedding before the ticking timeline of WWII strikes its first tock in September, 1939! 

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

Yet, even then she admitted that he had come home from WWII with wounds on the inside. 

Funny that Mrs. Herriot seemed to be the first character who got put off by wafts of rural farm smells despite urban slums not exactly smelling like roses either. Even Mrs. Pomphrey shrugged off the wafts far better than Mrs. H.

WWI 😉 (WWII is still to come!). I imagine Mrs Hall has a lot of cognitive dissonance about her marriage. Probably he was a good and kind man when she married him, or at least she thought he was, but there was another side of him that only came out later.

Mrs Pumphrey lives in the countryside, she's used to the smells, whereas for Mrs Heriot, everything about the countryside is completely alien.

And yes, Mrs Donovan was definitely presented as an Irish 'tinker', as they'd have put it at the time, travelling folk of no permanent abode.

[Sharpie66]

Yeah, I also thought Mrs. Donovan might be a Traveler. Definitely was someone living on the margins of conventional society.

I forgot to mention that I really liked seeing that Helen has gotten to know James just as much as he’s gotten to know her. Her calling him out for being a bit hesitant to take a chance, as well as having a tendency to “gabble” (great word!), was nice to see.

[sas616]

On 2/13/2022 at 7:40 AM, dleighg said:

I just started watching Deadwater Fell (only filmed 2 years ago as I recall) and "Mrs Hall" is playing a mother of young kids/classroom teacher. I was surprised at how believable she is at either somewhat different age! (She's 45)

She also plays the mother in Bridgerton.   She's really good with accents...those characters couldn't be more different.   

 

[Llywela]

5 minutes ago, sas616 said:

She also plays the mother in Bridgerton.   She's really good with accents...those characters couldn't be more different.   

I think you may be a bit confused. Anna Madeley plays Mrs Hall; the mother in Bridgerton is played by Ruth Gemmell. There is a similarity between the two, but they are different people.

[sugarbaker design]

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

And yes, Mrs Donovan was definitely presented as an Irish 'tinker', as they'd have put it at the time, travelling folk of no permanent abode.

 

6 hours ago, Sharpie66 said:

Yeah, I also thought Mrs. Donovan might be a Traveler. Definitely was someone living on the margins of conventional society.

I was definitely looking for the tell-all caravan.  My Irish immigrant parents used to bring me and my brothers to Ireland every summer over the '70's for prolonged visits to our grandparents and cousins.  "Tinkers", as they were called by the locals, were persona non grata, treated like second class citizens by the locals.  I don't know if the Farnon brothers' treatment of Mrs. Donovan is an example of their kindness and professionalism, or another example of a 2022 mentality in pre-WWII Yorkshire.

Edited February 14, 2022 by sugarbaker design

[AZChristian]

Really enjoyed this episode.  I teared up a bit when James tricked Helen into turning around so he could drop to his knee to propose.  

I thought it was a little odd with James' parents.  First his mother had it all worked out that James AND Helen would move in with them.  "It'll be crowded, but we'll make it work." 

Then, as they were getting on the bus to return to Scotland, James' father said they couldn't stay another night, because "We need to get back and see about finding some work."  I know that there had been layoffs where they lived, but that comment made it sound like he was going to just start really looking for work since James wouldn't be there to support them.  Other than that, I liked Mr. Herriot and his acceptance of Helen.

[JudyObscure]

The dog dying, the stray taken in, the new baby colt, the proposal, James's parents on the bus - if this keeps up I'm going to have to set out a box of tissues for each episode like I do for "Call the Midwives."

[CoE123]

10 hours ago, Sharpie66 said:

BTW, I loved that stray dog! He had the coat of a wolfhound with the body structure of a smallish greyhound.

So did I!  He looked like a lurcher:  a cross between a sighthound and any non sighthound breed.  I have a rescue lurcher myself, and she is half greyhound. :)

6 hours ago, Sharpie66 said:

Yeah, I also thought Mrs. Donovan might be a Traveler. Definitely was someone living on the margins of conventional society.

Not a Traveler but something similar.  They show both Mrs. Donovan and the stray dog getting on to a canal boat or "narrowboat" at the end.  The "boat people" and boat culture still exist, but in dwindling numbers.  They originated in the industrial revolution, transporting goods on a vast network of canals in the UK.  The transient canal folk were looked down upon by local settled communities in much the same way as the Romani or Irish travelers, but are not necessarily connected with either culture.  The have their own culture.  More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrowboat

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

I don't know if the Farnon brothers' treatment of Mrs. Donovan is an example of their kindness and professionalism, or another example of a 2022 mentality in pre-WWII Yorkshire.

As with all things, there has always been great variation in these things - just as some people would always be cruel, others would always be kind, in the past just as much as today.

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

Then, as they were getting on the bus to return to Scotland, James' father said they couldn't stay another night, because "We need to get back and see about finding some work."  I know that there had been layoffs where they lived, but that comment made it sound like he was going to just start really looking for work since James wouldn't be there to support them.

A dock labourer like Mr Heriot would always be in and out of work, that's just the nature of the industry (my own great-granddad was also a dock labourer at about this time). Few dock labourers ever had what we would understand today as a permanent, open-ended contract. It was more what we would call a 'gig economy'. They would be taken on for a job and then laid off when it was complete, and would then have to compete with one another for the next job, and the next job, and with the industry in decline those jobs would be fewer and further between. In this case, Mr Heriot was currently out of work, and couldn't look for work while he was away visiting his son because you had to be physically there, at the docks, to be taken on. And they wouldn't have much in the way of savings, so the longer they stayed away, the longer they went between pay packets, which they could not afford. There was no real welfare state still, at that time, so they would be in dire straits if he went without work for too long. Thus, staying an extra night would be a luxury they can't afford.

Someone wondered up-thread why the Heriots didn't consider moving to Yorkshire to be nearer their son. I can't stress enough how much Mr Heriot's work experience would not be compatible with such a move. There really, really would not be any suitable work for him in rural Yorkshire.

1 hour ago, CoE123 said:

Not a Traveler but something similar.  They show both Mrs. Donovan and the stray dog getting on to a canal boat or "narrowboat" at the end.  The "boat people" and boat culture still exist, but in dwindling numbers.  They originated in the industrial revolution, transporting goods on a vast network of canals in the UK.  The transient canal folk were looked down upon by local settled communities in much the same way as the Romani or Irish travelers, but are not necessarily connected with either culture.  The have their own culture.  More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrowboat

Thank you! I knew tinker wasn't quite right, but it's been a few months now since I saw these episodes and I couldn't quite remember the details shown of Mrs Donovan's life. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Llywela