All Creatures Great And Small (2021) - General Discussion

[Daff]

On 1/30/2023 at 10:45 AM, AZChristian said:

I love to have IMDB open on my tablet to see where I've seen actors in other roles.  The "Minister of Pointless Paperwork" was played by Adrian Rawlins . . . Harry Potter's father - James - in all the Harry Potter movies.  Never would have guessed.

Oh, my! He’s aged. By the way, “Minister of Pointless Paperwork” is choice,  and actually could be Minister of PP (sorry). 

[libgirl2]

20 minutes ago, Daff said:

Oh, my! He’s aged. By the way, “Minister of Pointless Paperwork” is choice,  and actually could be Minister of PP (sorry). 

So have we all.....

[Sarah 103]

9 hours ago, MrAtoz said:

The potential anachronism that I wondered about was Siegfried referring to Mrs. Hall's outing with Gerald as "a date," and both of them immediately understanding the romantic implications of that.  I'm not sure when "date" transitioned from meaning any kind of pre-arranged appointment (you could have a date with your friends to play gin rummy, for example) into meaning getting together with someone for purposes of romance.  1939 feels a bit early to be using it in our more modern way.

I think it's about right. That term was in use in the 1930s in America so it doesn't seem too surprising that the word would also be used in other English speaking countries. 

One of the best parts of the episode was the Tristan subplot. It was fun seeing him nervous on a date. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Sarah 103

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

9 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

And the theme music! I can feel my blood pressure go down as soon as it starts.

Love this homage song that inspired the books. 

[MrAtoz]

15 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I think it's about right. That term was in use in the 1930s in America so it doesn't seem too surprising that the word would also be used in other English speaking countries. 

I suppose I think of The Maltese Falcon (from 1941), where Bogart says "Miss Wonderly has seen Thursby and has a date to meet him tonight."  In context, it's clear that "a date" is not a romantic encounter, but just a meeting.  I guess the meaning was probably in the process of changing at that time, so you could still hear examples of the older usage even as the newer one was taking hold.

[possibilities]

What did a romantic date get called?

[pasdetrois]

I love the whimsy in the opening graphics - a dog's tail wagging, a farmer having a smoke, Jess waiting by the veterinary front door.

Here's a funny comment from Masterpiece's interview with Callum Woodhouse:

Were there any particularly challenging animal moments for you this season?

Callum Woodhouse:

Yeah, the scenes with the cats. It’s impossible to fill a dog up—you never show a dog a treat, and the dog’s like, “I’m good, actually. Thanks.” They always want the treat. They’re always hungry. Whereas cats get full very, very quick, and once they’re full, they’re not doing a single thing for you. I think there was a day where maybe the cat got full, and we just did not have the shot at all, and it was just so hard, because this cat was just like, “Leave me alone.”

 

[Dowel Jones]

All Creatures Great and Small.  And Cats.

[Sarah 103]

5 hours ago, MrAtoz said:

I suppose I think of The Maltese Falcon (from 1941), where Bogart says "Miss Wonderly has seen Thursby and has a date to meet him tonight."  In context, it's clear that "a date" is not a romantic encounter, but just a meeting.  I guess the meaning was probably in the process of changing at that time, so you could still hear examples of the older usage even as the newer one was taking hold.

I think this is where Siegfried mentioning something about "young people" (I can't remember the exact line) is significant. Because younger people were starting to use the word "date" to mean one thing (romance), while older people used the word to mean something else (an appointment). 

[MrAtoz]

I think that's probably true.  Dating itself (as opposed to chaperoned events, like dances, where young people could mingle with one another) was still relatively new; I think it sort of emerged near the turn of the 20th century.  It makes sense that having a specific word for it wouldn't happen immediately.  We haven't really been told much about how either Siegfried or Audrey met/courted their respective spouses, but for them it may have been something a bit more formal than the way Tristan simply drops by Florence's house and says "Wanna go for a drive?"

[Zella]

34 minutes ago, MrAtoz said:

I think that's probably true.  Dating itself (as opposed to chaperoned events, like dances, where young people could mingle with one another) was still relatively new; I think it sort of emerged near the turn of the 20th century.  It makes sense that having a specific word for it wouldn't happen immediately.  We haven't really been told much about how either Siegfried or Audrey met/courted their respective spouses, but for them it may have been something a bit more formal than the way Tristan simply drops by Florence's house and says "Wanna go for a drive?"

It's a big byproduct of the postwar 20s, especially in America. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

What did a romantic date get called?

It was called "courting." It might have sounded more accurate if Siegfried asked Audrey if Gerald was courting her. 

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It was called "courting." It might have sounded more accurate if Siegfried asked Audrey if Gerald was courting her. 

Courting sounds even more serious than dating! 

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Courting sounds even more serious than dating! 

Yes it wasn't done lightly. 

[libgirl2]

Just now, Zella said:

Yes it wasn't done lightly. 

Dating fun, maybe not so serious.... courting there is the aim to marry. 

[possibilities]

I was surprised that the two of them going on private walks together on the regular wasn't already considered dating or courting. I think Gerard was surprised, also.

[DonnaMae]

I don't consider having a daily walk with a person as dating.  

[possibilities]

In my life, I'd agree.

But (and maybe I'm wrong),  I thought that for the time and place, it wasn't usual for unrelated men and women to spend that kind of private time together.

 

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, possibilities said:

In my life, I'd agree.

But (and maybe I'm wrong),  I thought that for the time and place, it wasn't usual for unrelated men and women to spend that kind of private time together.

 

Exactly. 

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, possibilities said:

In my life, I'd agree.

But (and maybe I'm wrong),  I thought that for the time and place, it wasn't usual for unrelated men and women to spend that kind of private time together.

 

If she were a younger woman, walking unchaperoned with an unrelated man would excite comment and would be considered inappropriate. Like in the first Godfather movie when Michael is courting his future Sicilian wife, and you see a scene of them walking together on the road, followed by her family. But 1940s Sicily is going to be more conservative than 1930s Yorkshire. 

Mrs. Hall being an older woman isn't going to be expected to have a chaperone. Will people talk about her walks? Oh yes. I had a coworker who used to go on walks at work for her lunch, and people wanting to know who she was dating in the 2010s. She wasn't dating him, but she was interested in him.

But there are different behavior standards then for unmarried girls versus more experienced women. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Zella

[MrAtoz]

The word "date" would have applied to a romantic appointment as well.  The point is that at one time, it didn't mean exclusively a romantic appointment.  Today, you might say, "I'm going to the movies with Sally tonight, but it's not a date.  We're just friends."  In earlier times, it would still be a date either way.

I've really gone down this rabbit hole, so I've looked into the Oxford English Dictionary.  They identify the earliest usage of "date" to mean "An appointment or engagement at a particular time, especially a social activity or meeting with a person in whom one has a romantic interest" as 1885.  They also cite usages that we would find very strange:  If you had arranged a date with someone, you were "dated up" (that's from 1902).  If you went out with them regularly, you were "dated to" them (1903), or "dated with" them (1922).

Language is weird.  The thing about a period piece TV show (to bring this somewhat back on topic!) is that you often can't be entirely accurate to the way people would have talked in the past, or else your audience may not completely understand the dialogue.

[Blergh]

I think that since Mrs. Hall said that she was still a bit shellshocked over what had happened with 'her husband' and her estranged son Edward that Mrs. Hall is still legally wed to the unseen Mr. Hall (and may not have the means to get a divorce  in the late 1930's). I also think it's likely she didn't want to put herself and Gerald through the kind of limbo bond that Estella and Pip had at the tail end of Great Expectations with her still legally wed to someone else and  them unable to wed and forever having 'the neighbors' dis them for their bond.

BTW, does anyone know what might have happened with Patricia Hodge who took over for Mrs. Pumphrey after Dame Diana Rigg's passing? It seems odd that there have now been two episodes featuring Tricki with Mrs. Pumphrey herself not depicted.

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

BTW, does anyone know what might have happened with Patricia Hodge who took over for Mrs. Pumphrey after Dame Diana Rigg's passing? It seems odd that there have now been two episodes featuring Tricki with Mrs. Pumphrey herself not depicted.

She is starring in a live theater production of "Watch on the Rhine."  The show will "wrap" on February 4, so then she'll likely be back on the show.  She's 76, so doing TV and a play at the same time would be tough.

[dleighg]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

She is starring in a live theater production of "Watch on the Rhine."  The show will "wrap" on February 4, so then she'll likely be back on the show.

But this show was filmed a long time ago (and premiered in Britain even before it showed up here). So that doesn't explain it. (According to what I've read, filming for this season was spring of 2022)

[AZChristian]

27 minutes ago, dleighg said:

But this show was filmed a long time ago (and premiered in Britain even before it showed up here). So that doesn't explain it. (According to what I've read, filming for this season was spring of 2022)

I just found online info to confirm what you've written.  Also found that BEFORE "Watch on the Rhine" she was in "Private Lives" . . . looks like the timing of that play may have been about the same time as "ACGAS" was filming in early 2022.

Must be awesome to still be so in demand at 76!

[Llywela]

You'll see Mrs Pumphrey later in the season (the whole season aired before Christmas here). She just wasn't available for filming for the earlier episodes.

[DonnaMae]

It's been fun for the viewers to see Tricki Woo enjoying himself at Skeldale House in the absence of his mistress.  

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, DonnaMae said:

It's been fun for the viewers to see Tricki Woo enjoying himself at Skeldale House in the absence of his mistress.  

I adore that dog!

[Doublemint]

6 hours ago, Blergh said:

I think that since Mrs. Hall said that she was still a bit shellshocked over what had happened with 'her husband' and her estranged son Edward that Mrs. Hall is still legally wed to the unseen Mr. Hall (and may not have the means to get a divorce  in the late 1930's). I also think it's likely she didn't want to put herself and Gerald through the kind of limbo bond that Estella and Pip had at the tail end of Great Expectations with her still legally wed to someone else and  them unable to wed and forever having 'the neighbors' dis them for their bond.

BTW, does anyone know what might have happened with Patricia Hodge who took over for Mrs. Pumphrey after Dame Diana Rigg's passing? It seems odd that there have now been two episodes featuring Tricki with Mrs. Pumphrey herself not depicted.

I was thinking this too!  Strange Tricki and no Mrs. Pumphrey. "she's in London".  No - she would have taken Tricki with her.

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, DonnaMae said:

It's been fun for the viewers to see Tricki Woo enjoying himself at Skeldale House in the absence of his mistress.  

I loved that last shot of Tricki Woo and Jess at the end of the last episode. Jess was trying to get her big self on Tricki's little, velvet bench.  I don't know if Jess was trying to get even with Tricki for sleeping in her bed, or Jess just knew she wasn't getting her own bed back anytime soon.

[Blergh]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I loved that last shot of Tricki Woo and Jess at the end of the last episode. Jess was trying to get her big self on Tricki's little, velvet bench.  I don't know if Jess was trying to get even with Tricki for sleeping in her bed, or Jess just knew she wasn't getting her own bed back anytime soon.

I wonder if that scene was staged OR did the two canine performers improvise and the show's producers decided that THAT was too good not to be included!

[Calvada]

Would the MAG guy really have used the expression "balls up" in front of Helen and Audrey?  It seems to me that he would have been more careful about his language in the presence of ladies.  Or is that not considered a vulgar expression in England? 

I love the tweeds the men wear, I really liked the red dress Florence wore and I'd like to have that dark blue hat Audrey was wearing.  

Siegfried doing his best imitation of Mrs. Pumphrey to entice Tricki to come out was hilarious.  

Enjoy the cakes while you can, Tris.  Rationing is just around the corner and I doubt that the ladies of the district will be wasting their sugar allotment on you.

[tljgator]

1 hour ago, Calvada said:

Would the MAG guy really have used the expression "balls up" in front of Helen and Audrey?  It seems to me that he would have been more careful about his language in the presence of ladies.  Or is that not considered a vulgar expression in England? 

Per Urban Dictionary, not those kind of balls...

[crankcase]

“balls up” origin

[Blergh]

Still, it's not the most genteel or polite expression and I can't help but think the man  have found some other term had he believed that either Mrs. Hall or Helen hadn't been ever been married. . .

[crankcase]

Good lord, I can only imagine the pearl-clutching that would have gone on around here if the man had said this, instead. But even that might not have resulted in the level of opprobrium directed at the writers for having Audrey Hall dine at the same table as her husband and their adopted son.

[HoodlumSheep]

The elusive Edward finally appears!!

All the Mrs. Hall scenes 😭 The dropped tin of cookies was the real clincher. Tears were shed.

 

[chitowngirl]

I loved how they brought it around with the deaf volunteers at the train station…

[Driad]

Siegfried named his pet rat Vonolel after a horse, of course.

[Jodithgrace]

My anachronism was from last week, but it was repeated in the recap, “It is what it is.” I’m pretty sure that’s modern usage. 
Poor Mrs Hall, haunted for years by her decision to let her son go to prison. At least he finally unbent enough to ask for the shortbread, even if he didn’t end up with it. The deaf lady reading his lips was a nice touch at the end. 
And poor Tristan, watching Siegfried treat that young student like he always dreamed of being treated himself. But, on the other hand, how many potatoes did he think he and Siegfried were going to eat? Helen and James weren’t even there. 
I could have used those lip readers tonight. My sound kept going off, and I had to turn my tv off and on repeatedly. It’s not my set. The same thing happened last week while watching this show. 
 

Edited to add: “It is what it is” is older than I thought, but still not quite old enough. It dates back to 1949, but I don’t believe it became the ubiquitous creature it is until recently. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Jodithgrace

[j5cochran]

Any idea what date we are up to in this week's show? Mrs. Hall's son Edward is apparently a sailor on the HMS Repulse, and it's scheduled to sink in December 1941, just a few days after Pearl Harbor. It appears that about half the crew survived, so I suspect that Mrs. Hall has much more drama in store, about season five or six or seven!

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, j5cochran said:

Any idea what date we are up to in this week's show? Mrs. Hall's son Edward is apparently a sailor on the HMS Repulse, and it's scheduled to sink in December 1941, just a few days after Pearl Harbor. It appears that about half the crew survived, so I suspect that Mrs. Hall has much more drama in store, about season five or six or seven!

This season I believe is set in 1938 - war is imminent but has not yet been declared.

[Doublemint]

A good episode.  Found the Mrs. Hall & Edward's scenes too jumpy.   Once they connected should have been one scene of the reunion, it was jarring to cut it up into pieces.    Where was Helen's Father?   I missed the explanation, if any.

[kassygreene]

The current series is set in 1939.  Next episode is September, which i when war was declared over there after Hitler invaded Poland.

Helen's father was away and due back in the next day or two.

[iMonrey]

Does anyone else's local PBS affiliate have a bad feed for this show? It's always very jerky, like stop-motion animation, and the sound quality is very poor. 

So if I remember correctly, Audrey was a housekeeper for someone else and Edward stole something from them, and she turned him into the police. Do I have that right? I'm not clear on what her status is with Edward's father. Did they legally divorce or did she just run off and leave him? I didn't even know whether he was still alive until this episode.

The scenes with Siegfried and the little boy were sweet. And Tristan spent the whole episode in an apron. 

[libgirl2]

10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Does anyone else's local PBS affiliate have a bad feed for this show? It's always very jerky, like stop-motion animation, and the sound quality is very poor. 

So if I remember correctly, Audrey was a housekeeper for someone else and Edward stole something from them, and she turned him into the police. Do I have that right? I'm not clear on what her status is with Edward's father. Did they legally divorce or did she just run off and leave him? I didn't even know whether he was still alive until this episode.

The scenes with Siegfried and the little boy were sweet. And Tristan spent the whole episode in an apron. 

I think she isn't divorced or at least that is what I remember. I could be wrong though because I thought that housekeepers/cooks etc... were all called Mrs. regardless of marital status. 

The little boy was such a sweetie and I loved his scenes with Siegfried. The kid had such a gentle touch with animals and a real love of them. I know Tristan was jealous but I'm glad it came out more that Siegfried had to be a father to him and not just a big brother. 

Loved Tristan in an apron! And all those potatoes. I was glad to see them balance the heartache of Mrs. Hall vs the humor with Tristan. 

[Llywela]

9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

So if I remember correctly, Audrey was a housekeeper for someone else and Edward stole something from them, and she turned him into the police. Do I have that right? I'm not clear on what her status is with Edward's father. Did they legally divorce or did she just run off and leave him? I didn't even know whether he was still alive until this episode

Essentially this, yes. Audrey's husband was badly affected by WWI and became violent and abusive - she has repeatedly said that she holds the war responsible, because he was so massively changed by the experience. She left him to escape his violence and took work as a housekeeper, a respectable occupation for a woman in her situation. Edward struggled with the separation, however, taking his father's side. When Edward stole something from her employer, Audrey turned him into the police, believing it was the right thing to do both for Edward (he needed to face consequences or he'd end up like his father) and for herself (she'd lose her job if she wasn't honest). He was sentenced to Borstal (young offenders institute) and has never forgiven her for what he sees as a massive betrayal. I'm not sure if she is legally divorced from her husband, but suspect not - it wasn't easy to get a divorce at that time. I don't think claims of spousal abuse would be seen as sufficient justification, in the eyes of the law.

[cinsays]

On 1/11/2023 at 11:04 AM, Driad said:

My PBS station started airing The Yorkshire Vet, a documentary series "following the work of the staff of Skeldale Veterinary Centre in Thirsk, North Yorkshire - once the practice of James Herriot." It is in the present time, and they treat both pets and farm animals.  I found it interesting.  Caveat: not all cases end happily, and they show an animal's innards during surgery.

yes, i found this show and love it.  pretty graphic but, strangely, it doesn't bother me.  

they all seem like very nice caring people and the scenery is lovely

[tennisgurl]

I have been very curious about the much discussed Edward, and now we finally get to meet him in person. Those scenes were all so terribly sad, Mrs. Hall was so desperate to reconnect with him and explain why she did what she did, and while he seemed to be shutting her out at first it seems like there might be hope for reconciliation one day. Those stupid crushed shortbreads should not make me as emotional as they did. 

I like that they tied in the stories with both Mrs. Hall and Siegfried thematically, both of them wondering if they had done a good job with the kids they raised and being confronted by said kids about how they thought their parent/parental figure was too harsh on them. Siegfried was so good with the little one day intern, but I could tell right away that Tristan felt weird watching Siegfried being the perfect big brother while he got hard ass Siegfried who he felt was always criticizing him. Its sad that apparently Tristan has spent so long thinking that Siegfried resented taking care of him, glad that they were able to talk about it, that Siegfried never resented looking after Tristan, and that he's sorry that he wasn't in the place at the time to be everything that Tristan wanted him to be. Plus, there is a big difference between being a dad and being a sibling, and it was probably hard to figure that out. Just a really nice rather quiet but emotional talk. 

I would be happy to see Andrew again, he seems like he will be a great veterinarian one day, he's got a great gentle way with both animals and people.

Edited February 6, 2023 by tennisgurl

[libgirl2]

14 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I would be happy to see Andrew again, he seems like he will be a great veterinarian one day, he's got a great gentle way with both animals and people.

He was an absolute delight. When he showed up Siegfried was quite perturbed to have to waste his time but he quickly changed his attitude and was almost glowing.