S05.E03: Mother

[raven]

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Naomi comes face to face with Filip; Holden and Fred turn the tables; Avasarala closes in on Marco's plot.

Please keep your discussion to this episode only.  No book talk, thank you!

[WearyTraveler]

Eagerly awaiting for everyone to catch up and start posting! 😄

[mtmjr]

I am so, so psyched this show is back!  I have to admit that the first three eps have kinda segued together in my mind, because there are so many different threads spooling out right now that I can't exactly remember what went down in which episode, but I thought each was brilliant.

The thing that I love so far is that the plot is evolving so organically from the characters.  For instance, it was clear from the get that Naomi's mission to see, and attempt to reclaim, her son was going to end in disaster, but she could not possibly have acted any differently than she did.  She had to go to Pallis because, as she told Holden, it might be her last ever chance to even see her son.  And she couldn't possibly bring Jim, because just his presence would have ruined her whole mission.  And of course her son had been brainwashed by his dad, but Naomi's own guilt about her actions meant she couldn't give him a cogent explanation of why she "abandoned" him (rather than become a mass-murdering terrorist herself by sticking with his father).

I also love how Holden and Fred so easily team up, because it has been clear throughout the series that they like each other, and like working together, far more than either one of them is willing to admit.

And the scenes with Drummer finding Ashford's hidden recordings, and the whiskey, and her new lover talking her off the ledge, were just brilliant.  I wish I knew her girlfriend's name, because all of their interactions were just standout and she seems like she should be an important new character.  I get Drummer's decision to back off from the fight because of her emotional turmoil, but I hope she'll come back to the side of the righteous soon, because she's so much more that just another pirate.

Aversarala knowing she's right, but not being able to do anything about it, and just seething away and sipping scotch on Luna is also brilliant.  I have a feeling she's going to kick ass and take names once she's been vindicated, but it's not going to bring back all the people who die because she was ignored.

Oh, and I also find it really hard to watch any scene with Alex in it now that I know about the 40+ allegations of Cas Anvar being a complete and total abusive creep.  I may need some distance to focus on the character, rather than the performer, but so far it hasn't stopped me from being riveted by the show as a whole.

 

 

 

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, it's too bad since I like the idea of Alex and Bobbie teaming up and their banter, but I have to admit that the shadow of Cas Anver's numerous allegations does pop up in all of his scenes for me.  For example, I found myself more creeped out by Alex's attempts at flirting/getting information from Lt. Babbage over Babbage's attempts on him, and I suspect that wasn't the intention.  In the long run, it won't stop me from enjoying the show, but it sucks that he has turned out to be a horrible person in real life.

I know the show has gotten a little bit more wild after it's move to Amazon, but I was still a bit surprised by the Drummer nudity.  Good to know that a life of pirating keeps you in shape!  Not surprised that Ashford's death has hit her hard and she was briefly considering going after Marco herself, but I'm glad her girlfriend talked her out of it, because as awesome as she is, I don't think even Drummer could take on Marco and his crew with just three ships.  But I suspect she will still end up being involved in the main story eventually.  Cara Gee continues to be a powerhouse performer here.

Holden and Fred continue to make for an interesting pair, and I'm enjoying the interactions with Bull/Jose Zuniga's character as well.  I'm glad that they have a solid plan to figure out who tried to kidnap Monica, but I suspect things will still fall apart somehow.

Oh, Chrisjen!  I can understand her frustrations and she is totally going to end up being right about almost everything I suspect, but I do think there is some truth about her starting to understand that this is how everyone else probably felt when she was the one in charge.  She definitely doesn't enjoy having the tables turned on her.

Naomi's attempt to reconnect with her son ends with him just kidnapping her instead.  Yikes!  At least Brent Sexton's character seems to be a little more supportive with her, so maybe she can use that to get herself out of this sticky situation.

No Amos sighting.  I wonder if we'll get to see what his "unfinished business" was, since it certainly looks like Earth is in for one hell of a shakeup next episode!

[wanderingstar]

Everything with Drummer in this episode was outstanding - from seeing her with her crew/polyamorous family to watching her heartbreak over losing Ashford, I liked seeing where she is emotionally (good to see Sandrine Holt playing Drummer's partner, Oksana; I pretty much love her in anything I see her in). 

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Oh, and I also find it really hard to watch any scene with Alex in it now that I know about the 40+ allegations of Cas Anvar being a complete and total abusive creep.  I may need some distance to focus on the character, rather than the performer, but so far it hasn't stopped me from being riveted by the show as a whole.

Same here. And it's a shame, because most of his scenes are with Bobbie, who is one of my favorites. 

[WildPlum]

Not exactly sure how Ashford managed to be simultaneously launched into space, singing his death song, AND be inside the ship to hide his backup data core, which contained those very last minutes.

But glad to have the Expanse back, although I'd like it better if more of the crew was in the same place at the same time.

And, oh dear, the protomolecule seems to be coming back, in the hands of a splinter faction MORE splinter-y than the OPA. That is on YOU, Naomi.

[UnknownK]

26 minutes ago, WildPlum said:

Not exactly sure how Ashford managed to be simultaneously launched into space, singing his death song, AND be inside the ship to hide his backup data core, which contained those very last minutes.

The data core interfaces with those handheld future iPhones and Ashford was recording with his when he went out the airlock.

[mjc570]

I absolutely love this show, so I hate saying this:  I really hate Naomi.  Maybe because I don't have a lot of family feeling myself, but I don't see how being Filip's bio mom gives her any right whatsoever to have anything to do with him, much less take action on his behalf.  Her character deserves better writing - she's been presented all along as a smart, capable woman able to make good choices (ask Amos), but it is beyond ridiculous that she believed that Filip would listen to her at all.  I realize that this is being presented as her weak spot, causing her to act uncharacteristically emotional to the point of irrationality, but this extreme reliance on the mommy love trope is unworthy of such a great series.  

Having said that, I liked everything else.  I don't know how shows are made, or what titles are - but whoever is responsible for the look of the show (art director? Director?) has done an amazing job.  It looks absolutely realistic.  

[Macbeth]

I am so thrilled to have Chad Coleman back on my tv as Fred Johnson.  I definitely missed him  when he had only a short appearance in S4.

I guess with Syfy cancellation - he was already booked when Amazon  rescued the show.

I love the pairing of Fred and Holden.

[Ziggy]

No Amos?

Great episode, but his absence was noticeable.

[Ziggy]

4 hours ago, mjc570 said:

it is beyond ridiculous that she believed that Filip would listen to her at all.

That really bugged me, too. Why would he want to leave his father? The father who raised him? What reason does he have to think anything bad about Marco?

[steelyis]

25 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

That really bugged me, too. Why would he want to leave his father? The father who raised him? What reason does he have to think anything bad about Marco?

I guess Naomi felt like she had to try? I don't like the guy, he's about to kill millions of people, so he can take his 'mommy abandoned me' bullshit and go fuck himself. Naomi should wash her hands of trying to save him once she finds out he helped daddy dearest launch a giant asteroid at Earth. Dude's a legit monster.

[Tachi Rocinante]

This will cover Eps 2 and 3 - I am loving this season so far.

• The brief nudity was tastefully done, but still unnecessary. I like Drummer's crew.
• Was Alex always such a dick? Bobbi still has a stick up her ass
• Tim DeKay - great casting
• Bull is a nice foil for Fred, although I pictured him bigger.  The Three Amigos have a nice rapport so far.
• Nice to hear a mention of Dawes, but I don't think Jared Harris is coming back.  Maybe a video call? 🤔

[Holmbo]

On 12/18/2020 at 1:51 AM, mjc570 said:

 but it is beyond ridiculous that she believed that Filip would listen to her at all. 

I mostly agree. Although we have more knowledge than the characters. Maybe she thought Filip would be interested in getting out from his father's shadow and setting something up for himself. That said there's no way he'd trust her or want to be in debt to her like that. But I think she already kinda knew that. Her offer was very rushed and desperate. 

[Holmbo]

This guy had an AI guess the punchline of the joke. Some very funny alternatives

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheExpanse/comments/ke1knj/5x03we_never_got_the_punchline_for_admiral/gg0r8ow?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 .

[Enero]

On 12/17/2020 at 7:51 PM, mjc570 said:

I absolutely love this show, so I hate saying this:  I really hate Naomi.  Maybe because I don't have a lot of family feeling myself, but I don't see how being Filip's bio mom gives her any right whatsoever to have anything to do with him, much less take action on his behalf.  Her character deserves better writing - she's been presented all along as a smart, capable woman able to make good choices (ask Amos), but it is beyond ridiculous that she believed that Filip would listen to her at all.  I realize that this is being presented as her weak spot, causing her to act uncharacteristically emotional to the point of irrationality, but this extreme reliance on the mommy love trope is unworthy of such a great series.  

Having said that, I liked everything else.  I don't know how shows are made, or what titles are - but whoever is responsible for the look of the show (art director? Director?) has done an amazing job.  It looks absolutely realistic.  

I completely agree with the bolded. I still like Naomi but her “plan” to save her son was ridiculous at best. I know she said she had to try, but IMO it was obvious this was more about herself than him. She needed to try and alleviate the guilt she feels over abandoning him all those years ago. She feels responsible for what he’s become, which she partially is. But she can’t undo years of conditioning by his radical and violent father. He’s been taught that message of radicalism since he was a child. She should’ve known that trip would’ve been fruitless and disastrous for her. The writers using the  “mother’s love” trope as the driving force behind one of the smartest characters on the show doing something extremely stupid is frustrating. I don’t know why they had Naomi think she could walk into the lion’s den and walk out unscathed.  I suspect though, her kidnapping will certainly be the catalyst to whatever catastrophe we’ll be led into this season. 

I can’t say enough how much I’m enjoying the Holden/Fred Johnson partnership. But am I the only one who thinks the guard whose always in the room with them when highly confidential topics are being discussed could be the spy?

Alex  is a f^ckin idiot with his diarrhea of the mouth. I knew the woman who was so enamored with his protomolecule experiences was the source of the illegal weapons dealing. 

Bobbie’s timing was thankfully impeccable and she saved his ass. Additionally he was at least able to get a little information out the female soldier. However, I do wonder if the ship name she gave him is legitimate. 

I felt bad for Drummer in her grief. She and Ashford had worked together for many years and were very close. So her grief and first response being to go after Marco was palatable. I’m glad she has someone who cares about her to talk her off the ledge. But this is far from over for her. Though she’s stated this is not her fight anymore, I doubt she’ll be able to stay out of the war that’s to come. 

The first episode of this season was meh, but the storylines have progressed nicely. Overall, the season has been very good thus far. 

 

[marinw]

I am impressed by how, well...Expansive this Universe is. I like how the Worlds beyond the Ring are more in the background this season but the presence of the Ring is effecting everything in the Solar System.

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by marinw

[freebie]

I came here to fangirl over the fact that Thomas Jane directed the third episode, but no one has mentioned it. I loved Miller so much that I guess I'm conditioned to spotting the actor's name while the titles roll. I initially thought I was mistaken, but I rewound and, sure enough! I'll have to re-watch to really be able to comment on directorial choices, but I thought the tight focus on faces in certain scenes was effective, as was shooting up toward characters that were speechifying/trying to convince others to follow them. And the last scene - before the SFX kicked in - was also well done and humanizing. 

[WatchrTina]

I haven't seen the ep yet.  I've only seen the pre-credits scene.  And I had to just come here and wonder if Shohreh Aghdashloo's back hurts.  Because SHE IS CARRYING THIS SHOW!

(Also I want to know the punchline to the bartender's joke.  They BETTER pay that off in the episode.)

 

ETA:  Aaaaand I'm back.  And no, they did NOT payoff the joke.  Boo!

Hey, Thomas Jane directed this episode!  Yay!

So, when Gunnery Sargent Roberta ("Bobby") Draper (retired) said she was just going to "Grab a few thing, just in case" did anyone else get a thrill?  Because I'm pretty sure one of the things she's going to grab is that power armor we saw in her storage locker.

Yo!  Drummer!  Secure that bottle!  That's some top quality hooch you're leaving vulnerable to an unexpected adjustment in ship's trajectory.  Ah well . . . I guess that just shows the depths of her despair.

Was anyone else suspicious of the woman who offered comfort to the grieving Drummer?  Because I think it's been hinted that SOMEBODY on that ship is in league with Marco, so I was concerned that that embrace might turn deadly.

How did Filip & Co get on Naomi's ship?  I know she's docked to the station but shouldn't the door be locked?  (Okay, we'll fan-wank that Filip & Co have connections that could quietly override the station/ship's locking mechanism but that REALLY bugged me.)  In other related news, Naomi has crap friends.

Can someone remind me about the back-story on Filip?  Didn't we learn somewhere along the way that Naomi was FORCED to leave Filip?  Was Marco beating her?  Or did Marco take Fillip to punish Naomi for something -- like refusing to take part in one of his nefarious schemes?  I have a vague recollection that that is what happened.  And If so, I'm guessing Naomi didn't say that to Filip because she knows he won't believe her.  Furthermore, she may not want to destroy his relationship with the parent who raised him because she knows that would cause him pain.  Easier to let him go on hating her.

But, what a dick that kid is.  She OFFERED him the ship.  But no . . . he has to TAKE it from her and kidnap her in the process.  Remember Diego who we (on this board) began referring to as "That Little Shit Diego"?  I think it may be time to pass that moniker on to That Little Shit Filip.

Edited December 20, 2020 by WatchrTina

[Lila82]

The casting on this show has always been top-notch, but all the props for choosing Jasai Chase Owens to play Naomi's son. I'm iffy on how old everyone is supposed to be, but regardless, they look so much alike that I can easily buy them as mother and child. 

Avasarala's sequined(!) pantsuit was to die for. 

 

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The writers using the  “mother’s love” trope as the driving force behind one of the smartest characters on the show doing something extremely stupid is frustrating.

 

I find Naomi's behavior consistent with her characterization. Filip is her weakness, most notably when she gave the protomolecule to Fred Johnson in an attempt to give the Belt equal footing, i.e., protecting Filip. Was her behavior foolish and reckless? Of course, but she can't see clearly when it comes to her son. She also last saw him as a baby or small child and her frame of reference is likely frozen there. She might know that he's nearly full-grown, but in her head he's also that little boy that needs her protection. I'm mostly excited to see her in the Belter universe. We got a bit of it when she as working on Tycho but I'm eager to learn more.

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Can someone remind me about the back-story on Filip?  Didn't we learn somewhere along the way that Naomi was FORCED to leave Filip?

 

We have yet to get a full backstory, but the little Naomi told (and to different individuals) made it seem like after Marco killed a bunch of people on one of the ships they were going to "ransom", she left and he did something to keep Filip from leaving with her. I assume we'll learn more as the season progresses.

 

 

[WatchrTina]

I've had another thought about That Little Shit Filip and his decision to kidnap Naomi.  I wonder if, when she offered him a ship, he assumed that that meant she must be super rich?  I mean, who can afford to just give away a ship?  *I* assumed that what Naomi offered him is essentially everything she has -- everything she owns.  But I'll bet he assumes that those items must be mere trifles to her, which means she must be rich (or have access to some rich guy's accounts) and so now Filip wants to see what more he can squeeze out of his "wealthy" biological mother. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by WatchrTina

[marinw]

I dont understand how Naomi could buy the ship that is now the Little Shit Filip. It was established that repairing the Roci was a source of stress even with the discount.

 

 

 

[Eulipian 5k]

On 12/16/2020 at 7:18 PM, thuganomics85 said:

ah, it's too bad since I like the idea of Alex and Bobbie teaming up and their banter, but I have to admit that the shadow of Cas Anver's numerous allegations does pop up in all of his scenes for me.  For example, I found myself more creeped out by Alex's attempts at flirting/getting information from Lt. Babbage over Babbage's attempts on him, and I suspect that wasn't the intention

This!

What’s funny about this is if you really want to know Detective Joe Miller you need to know J.J. Gittes of “Chinatown” written by, directed by, and also starring, Roman (not Lionel ) Polanski, the accused pedophile.

[WatchrTina]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

I dont understand how Naomi could buy the ship that is now the Little Shit Filip. It was established that repairing the Roci was a source of stress even with the discount.

I may be misinterpreting but it sounds like you are suggesting that from now on we call Filip's ship "Little Shit Filip" and if that is what you are suggesting I am on board!

As for the cost of repairing the Roci, I assumed that was Holden's problem.  I don't think he would have asked Naomi to pitch in for the repairs.

[marinw]

2 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

it sounds like you are suggesting that ffrom now on we call Filip's ship "Little Shit Filip" and if that is what you are suggesting I am on board!

I can't take credit for that name! That is your creation. 😊

[Holmbo]

In regards to Naomi's history with TLSF (is that the right abbreviation?) As I understood it from her past explanations on the show, Marco kept him from her and refused for him to see him unless she worked for them. And so she left Marco but still tried to get ahold of Filip but failed. So after many years she gave up and took a job at the Can't. So she feels guilty for leaving him with Marco but really the was nothing she could have done unless she'd be willing to commit more crimes. 

[Haleth]

I noticed Thomas Jane directed this epi.

I was disappointed not to hear the rest of the joke.

The Inners will learn someday, if it’s not too late, to never dismiss Avasarala. Idiots.

This book soured me to the series because I hated the Naomi/Marco/Filip storyline. I understand a mother wanting to save her son, but she’s a dozen years too late. 

[whiporee]

11 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I haven't seen the ep yet.  I've only seen the pre-credits scene.  And I had to just come here and wonder if Shohreh Aghdashloo's back hurts.  Because SHE IS CARRYING THIS SHOW!

i know this is unpopular, but I don't think she can act. At all. Every time she speaks she stops in the middle of a sentence, like she's just moved onto the next line on the teleprompter. I don't see any emotions form her beyond an older woman getting angry. The character is great -- Chrisjen Avasarala is one of the key characters of this series. But the actress playing her gives her no depth, no emotion, no fun. Nothing. Just accented line readings. The fact that Avasarala seems as important as she does is a credit to the character, because the actress is doing nothing with the role. 

[tennisgurl]

I am really going to need to hear the end of that joke by the end of the season, its already driving me nuts. 

Poor Naomi, her plan to go after her son and talk him out of this whole terrorist thing went about as well as you probably imagined, and possibly worse, now that her shitty son kidnapped her. I don't think she realized, or wanted to realize, how deep in this he was, but he might be too far gone for her to help now. The actor who plays Filip looks uncannily like Naomi, so great casting there as always. 

Poor Drummer, I knew she would take Ashfords death hard, especially considering she cast the deciding vote to let Marco go. Its probably a good thing for now that her girlfriend talked her down, as going off half cocked and looking for revenge would probably just get her and her crew killed, but I cant imagine that she will stay out of this fight for long, that's just not who she is. Cara Gee is great as always, you could just fear the grief and fury just radiating off of her the whole episode. Its nice to hear Ashfords voice at least, and it is really getting around now. 

Why wont people learn to listen to Avasarala?! She and her amazing outfits have a pretty good track record at being right about this kind of thing. 

[Eulipian 5k]

On 12/19/2020 at 6:13 PM, Enero said:

The writers using the  “mother’s love” trope as the driving force behind one of the smartest characters on the show doing something extremely stupid is frustrating.

Sounds alot like Ripley in Aliens. Yes, Filip would look much better in the Recycler but every sociopath had a Mother who stuck by them; (cough, Ted Bundy). Mother's love isn't a trope, it's an instinct. I mean, Lydia stuck by and also raised a baby face sociopath.

[Eulipian 5k]

So Timothy who Followed the Bad People Burton, but decided to Protect Erich. Is that the Amos Burton-II  philosophy?

Edited December 21, 2020 by Eulipian 5k
Amos Burke was long ago & far away.

[Eulipian 5k]

On 12/20/2020 at 11:03 AM, WatchrTina said:

Yo!  Drummer!  Secure that bottle!  That's some top quality hooch you're leaving vulnerable to an unexpected adjustment in ship's trajectory.  Ah well . . . I guess that just shows the depths of her despair.

Did you notice Amos grabbed Erich’s bottle in “Churn”? He knows how to secure the valuables in the depths of his despair over Lydia.

[tennisgurl]

Its interesting that this season so far has had a lot of focus on parent/child relationships. We have Alex and Naomi trying to reach out to children that they left behind (neither goes well), we saw Avasarala with her daughter for the first time in awhile (or maybe ever) and she tried to reach out to her husband by reminiscing in her message about taking their daughter into space when she was a child, and of course Amos's whole plot this season so far has been about him dealing with the death of his mother figure and trying to do right by her after her death.  

[whiporee]

And then the mother to all of them -- the Earth itself -- is under attack, getting murdered. 

[Eulipian 5k]

16 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

we saw Avasarala with her daughter for the first time in awhile (or maybe ever) and she tried to reach out to her husband by reminiscing in her message about taking their daughter into space when she was a child,

The second time we saw "Chrissie*", in episode 1, she was on the roof with her son having a conversation about people throwing rocks at Earth. I thought they were pre-saging, spoilers, the Eros event a season later.

*She who can be both.

[MissLucas]

Well, I did not look forward to seeing TLS (we've established the acro a long time ago) but the casting is impeccable. I can deal with Naomi doing something incredibly dumb because she's acting out of guilt - that's never a good motivator.

Drummer owned the episode - and that Belter eyeliner is better than anything produced in the well! Took me a while to recognize Sandrine Holt in the Belter get-up. I wasn't happy when she left McGyver glad she found another gig.

For a while I was worried the attack would happen much later in the season, glad we're finally there. Poor Avasarala, that's a hard earned 'Told ya so!'

 

[blackwing]

Happy the show is back,, and this season appears to be interesting because we are following the characters' individual stories... which is great if I like the character, but if I don't, I find those scenes tedious:

Case in point:

On 12/18/2020 at 4:05 PM, Tachi Rocinante said:

• Was Alex always such a dick? Bobbi still has a stick up her ass

On 12/16/2020 at 4:39 PM, mtmjr said:

Oh, and I also find it really hard to watch any scene with Alex in it now that I know about the 40+ allegations of Cas Anvar being a complete and total abusive creep.  I may need some distance to focus on the character, rather than the performer, but so far it hasn't stopped me from being riveted by the show as a whole.

I've always greatly disliked both of these characters.  I hated Bobbie from the beginning, I hated her angry and antagonistic attitude. 

I couldn't care less about Alex, and I feel sorry for his wife and kid that he abandoned them for years and now expects to just waltz back into their lives.  Always hated his ridiculously fake Texas accent... is it supposed to be fake?  It's so bad that it's almost like I am thinking that it has to be part of the joke.  If the character really is supposed to have this southern accent, could the show at least get him a dialect coach?  

And yeah... Cas Anvar is a creep, I find it hard to watch this character without separating the two.

 

I would be more than happy to lose both of these two if we got more screentime for Holden, Fred Johnson and the amazing Shohreh Agdashloo.

[WatchrTina]

19 hours ago, blackwing said:

Texas accent... is it supposed to be fake? 

Within the Expanse universe many of the people who moved to Mars to work on the terraforming project when it started were originally from Texas and also China.  So, over time, Texas heritage became a cultural touchstone and source of pride on Mars; and the Texas accent loomed large on the planet (and may have evolved and become even broader over time.)  What you take to be a "fake" Texas accent could simply be interpreted as a genuine 22nd century Martian accent.  That Texas connection is why you saw Bobbi and Alex meet in a Texas-themed bar that is playing (if I'm recalling correctly) Chinese-language country-western music.

As a side note, I was born in Texas and I live here now and Alex's accent doesn't bother me at all.  I don't really think of him as having an accent. He just sounds like . . . people.

Edited December 23, 2020 by WatchrTina

[UnoAgain]

On 12/18/2020 at 12:48 AM, Ziggy said:

That really bugged me, too. Why would he want to leave his father? The father who raised him? What reason does he have to think anything bad about Marco?

And they didn't even have her explain... She just lamented her situation and said how much she loved him... Like.. Lady how do you figure that works... Now.. On some level I'm sure hes curious... But telling him to abandon his dad and get on the ship she bought with her "inners" Money was a horrible plan... The only smart thing she has done is not brought holden

[MissLucas]

I don't think Naomi revealing what had caused her to abandon TLS would have mattered. Without going into details (book spoilers) it all comes down to 'Your father is an asshat supreme'. Which clearly would not have worked either. She thought by accepting the blame and his fury she might get him to a point where he would listen. Still a weak strategy but trying to reason with a teenager is hard, trying to reason with a teenager who's been brainwashed for his whole life is near impossible. And that's as close as I'll go to give TLS a bit of a break.

Edited December 23, 2020 by MissLucas

[WatchrTina]

THE GOOD

The first time I watched the episode I wondered why the two dead guys were leaning against the door when it opened.  On second viewing I heard someone say that the door was locked, which is why the two dead guys couldn’t get out when the air was vented from their chamber.  So THAT’s why they were there – probably clawing at the door as they smothered.  Damn.

But then I scoffed thinking, “Hey if a room had its air vented then SURELY that would have set off alarms.”  Yes, it should have.  But it didn’t.  So that’s additional evidence that someone on Tycho station – someone with a LOT of access – is behind all this shit.  Fred must be SO PISSED.

I did enjoy watching Drummer see that tank (while doing a repair) and then recollect that Ashford had a hidey-hole in one of those tanks.  

Then I got thoroughly confused for a moment.  How could Ashford have hidden a recording of his “last words” in that tank?  So now my fan-wank is that the thing we saw on Ashford’s belt (the thing he activated before he said his last words) was not a recording devise – it was a transmitter.  It must have transmitted his last message to the recording devise hidden in that canister – and Drummer found it.  Clever Ashford!

I appreciated the writers clarifying WHY Drummer is so upset about the death of Ashford because at this point so much time has passed since last season (and Ashford’s loyalties were so variable in the past) that I had forgotten how close the two of them were.

The last shot showing the beachcomber’s view of the wave created by the asteroid strike was amazing. Holy hell, what an ending!

 

THE BAD

I swear if ONE MORE PERSON walks away from a freshly poured glass of what I’m betting is very fine Scotch I will just scream.  It keeps happening in Avasarala scenes.  (Sigh.  I miss Amos.  He would never let good Scotch go to waste.)

The security on these space stations really sucks.  Last ep Monica was trapped in a container, this week the two guys behind THAT scheme are asphyxiated in their quarters, and Filip and his henchmen just walk onto Naomi’s ship uninvited.

 

THE UGLY

I hate, hate, HATE child custody battle stories.  That’s not really what this episode is about given that (That Little Shit) Filip is no longer a child.  But I still hate it.  I’m also not a fan of women-in-jeopardy stories and I really got my fill of that in the LAST episode.  So I’m hating Naomi’s story-line right now.  

 

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS 

So . . . what did Drummer DO with the recorded message from Ashford?  Did I see Fred’s face on Drummer’s hand-held device when she sent the file to someone?   If so, why?  Is it so that he will, in turn, widely share it with the Belters so that Marco is a branded as murderer who kills Belters?  I’ve watched this episode twice, paying careful attention and yet I’m still pretty confused on this point.

Or did Drummer send the info to Avasarala?  Or did Fred send it to Avasarala because he knows she suspects what Marco is up to (flinging stealth asteroids at earth).  Sigh.  I’m going to have to watch this a 3rd time, aren’t I?  Oh wait, episode 4 has dropped!  Perhaps that will clarify things.

 

OTHER

There was a throw-away line in this episode saying that Bobbi salvaged the Razorback and loaned it to Alex.  Good. That was bugging me.  (Though I’m still not clear how Bobbie could have done that.)

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by WatchrTina

[UnoAgain]

22 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

did Drummer send the info to Avasarala?

I think she sent it to Fred who sent it to Chrisjen 

[Danny Franks]

Hated Naomi's storyline in this book, hate it on the show. I don't care about Filip, I have no emotional connection to Naomi caring for him. He's a little monster, moulded by his narcissistic sociopath of a father, and there will be no "saving" done, by Naomi or anyone else. "I'm still his mother" is a sentiment I just don't understand when she's not seen him since he was a small child. She has no clue who this young man is. True to a mother's instinct or not, I simply don't care for it in my entertainment. It's used for dumb, cheap drama far too much and Naomi should be too smart for it.

Cara Gee is such a fine actor. The resolution on her face as she boarded Ashford's ship, knowing what she was going to find - or not find - was so good. And her simmering rage when she heard Marco's voice and listened to him kill Ashford. Without knowing much of anything about her backstory, you feel how important and unusual Drummer's friendship with Ashford was to her, that she wasn't used to caring about people and she doesn't know how to deal with the grief.

Alex isn't as dumb as he looks. I thought he was just being pumped for information without realising it, but he was actually feeding Babbage enough to get her to make a move against him. And I liked how efficiently Bobbie dealt with the situation.

Holden's storyline is still really boring. Three episodes and we're talking about a cargo container and who owns it.

The last shot of the episode was incredible. It looked amazing and the weight of it was perfect. That's what I've been waiting for.

 

[Netfoot]

On 12/19/2020 at 7:13 PM, Enero said:

I still like Naomi but her “plan” to save her son was ridiculous at best.

Want to bet she ends up shooting him in the head?

On 12/20/2020 at 12:03 PM, WatchrTina said:

I think it may be time to pass that moniker on to That Little Shit Filip.

I'm with you on this.

 

[AudienceofOne]

I loved this episode, although I didn't have any more philosophical epiphanies from it. But I also hate how each of these episodes seem to merge effortlessly into each other and once again I'm regretting diving into the season now rather than waiting and binging.

On 12/17/2020 at 9:39 AM, mtmjr said:

Oh, and I also find it really hard to watch any scene with Alex in it now that I know about the 40+ allegations of Cas Anvar being a complete and total abusive creep.  I may need some distance to focus on the character, rather than the performer, but so far it hasn't stopped me from being riveted by the show as a whole.

When I found out about this delightful news, I thought "well, at least he's not a romantic lead so I guess I can put up with him being a pilot or having Bobbie slapping him over a head for a season". And then they literally put him into this plotline where some poor woman had to kiss the bastard. So, yeah, it was a struggle. 

On 12/18/2020 at 11:51 AM, mjc570 said:

I absolutely love this show, so I hate saying this:  I really hate Naomi.  Maybe because I don't have a lot of family feeling myself, but I don't see how being Filip's bio mom gives her any right whatsoever to have anything to do with him, much less take action on his behalf.  Her character deserves better writing - she's been presented all along as a smart, capable woman able to make good choices (ask Amos), but it is beyond ridiculous that she believed that Filip would listen to her at all. 

I don't hate Naomi and I don't hate this plotline thematically but in execution I'm also a little annoyed at her lack of planning. Although - to her, she's still a Belter going into Belter territory and I guess she thought she would still be seen as one of them. And I agree with everyone else who said she had to at least try.

On 12/22/2020 at 2:00 PM, tennisgurl said:

Its interesting that this season so far has had a lot of focus on parent/child relationships. 

Parent/children yes but, also, I feel like there's a strong theme of people trying to go back to the past because things are changing so radically around them. Everyone's trying to regain something they've lost out of a sense of nostalgia or a sense of instability. It kind of reminds me of Blank in Grosse Point Blank trying to go home to his reunion to find himself again.

And if you remember the tagline of that movie was basically, "You can never go home again".

[Joimiaroxeu]

Ditto comments uptgread, I need to hear the end of that joke.

Is Monica being held captive or is she still in recovery and too weak to leave?

The actor playing Holden looked awfully thin to me in this episode. Hope he's okay healthwise.

Bobbie is definitely the person you want to have as backup.

Funny how episodes without Amos don't hold my interest as much.

[ahisma]

On 1/30/2021 at 3:22 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

The actor playing Holden looked awfully thin to me in this episode. Hope he's okay healthwise

I’ve seen him at a con and he strikes me as one of those people with a naturally slender build. I’m betting he had to eat and work out a ton for all those shirtless episodes in the earlier seasons. 
 

Speaking of which, I’m cracking up at the comments surprised by naked Drummer and how racy Amazon is. Early seasons had full-on, intense sex scenes with Holden and Naomi.