S01.E04: See No Evil

[aghst]

10 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

Lorraine Bracco has the worst plastic surgery face I have ever seen. What used to be her "look" is gone. Her face is full of fillers, puffed-up skin and lips. I didn't recognize her until her name was said, on the Tamron Hall Show.

Lorraine has a show on HGTV called My Big Italian Adventure, about her renovating a home in a small town in Sicily that she bought for 1 Euro.

As they were finishing up the renovations, the contractors showed how the walls of the home would be filled with cement to fill in the gaps or spaces between the rocks, to strengthen it.

Lorraine says that sounds like how in America they fill women's faces up.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I know Grace only went back to the Columbo lawyer because she hates Haley so much, but I hope he becomes the lawyer again. I think he's going to be better for this case than she will be.

Is that who she met at the restaurant? I couldn't figure out who that was. Have we seen him before? When? At first I thought it was one of the two detectives that've been hounding her, but they showed up again later and I realized it was just someone who looked similar.

Quote

Why do characters on this show purposely make themselves look guilty when it's not necessary? Instead of responding with "I never posed for that picture," Grace looks ashamed and flees. Then when Henry is questioned by the headmaster, instead of just saying plainly that he accidentally bumped into Miguel and apologized, he looks down and away and makes a weird comment that makes it look like something more sinister occurred. Did he have a fugue state as well?

I know right? They all act guilty as sin.

Quote

Maybe I'm saying this because I really like both boys but I don't think they did it. I don't find them off, just sensitive. But mainly, I think they're too small to bludgeon an adult to death. It doesn't seem like a child's crime. 

Yeah I doubt it was either kid.

[Aqua]

38 minutes ago, Maysie said:

 But that whole facial evolution thing confused me. Also, when he said "I've lost someone I love," I wondered if he was actually referring to Grace, since she told him the marriage was over at that point.

 

 

To me, that bizarro facial thing made me think he has some deeper demons at work and put him back on the suspect list.

[RedDelicious]

I don't really have a problem with Nicole's face - I think she's in a constant state of shock.  But there is one thing that bothers me and it's the area of her lips where the shape diminishes into about a half inch of straight line on either side of her mouth.  THAT bugs me.

I think the purpose of the scene between Haley and Jonathan in her office where she gets up close to him is to see if she can make him uncomfortable by invading his personal space.  My own interpretation of it is if he was innocent, he would react.  Guilty, and he would stand his ground, like he has something to hide and he's not going to let her get the better of him. 

How beautiful was that pre-dawn light in the early morning walking scenes?

[Mackey]

When did scum-cakes tell his wife about Cleveland? It was at the auction or on the way in the car? Or, do we even know when the plan was first mentioned? Could it have been weeks ago? 
 

I’m struggling with the idea that he sets up a fake trip story to his wife, then goes planfully and brutally kills someone, and then what? If he was the murderer how would a fake trip help his case? He’d have to know people would find out there was no conference. A fake trip/fake conference is no alibi. It only works (if he’s the murderer) if the fake trip plan was not related to anything to do with Elena. But, he kills her in a spontaneous rage and then runs in panic, forgetting his fake trip . 
 

Leaving phone? Also, unrelated? But, very confusing.  Most people, of his ilk,  would be checking texts as they walk out the door. How did he not turn around in minutes, noticing it missing? 

I’m obsessed with the fake conference, fake trip part. I’m mostly obsessed that nothing is being said about it with Grace and the cops, like “Ah, after the murder, your murdering husband did not go on his fake trip to a fake conference but instead claims he did a fake panic run when he saw Elena dead. We think it’s all fake fake fake and don’t care about the fake cleveland trip story. We just care about the faked panic run.”

I think Kidman is amazing! I’m not faking. I really do love how she’s acting in this role. 

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, Maysie said:

Nicole Kidman is supposed to be a Great Actress, and for that reason, I've given her a lot of leeway in this, thinking this is supposed to be some sort of character trait, but now I just think she sucks in this role

We've talked so much about her lack of emotion being caused by too much plastic surgery, but your post made me ask myself what was the last role I actually liked her in. Honestly, the only one I can think of is To Die For. And maybe The Stepford Wives. In both she plays women who are slightly less than human, and nails it. 

Apart from those, in every single thing I've watched her in, I've had the same complaints as in The Undoing. Her performance always takes me out of the show. This was true in Big Little Lies, a show I otherwise really enjoyed. 

She seems like a nice enough person, I just don't know why she's so extremely famous, with so many big roles on her resume. Maybe it's me? 

5 minutes ago, Mackey said:

I’m obsessed with the fake conference, fake trip part.

Also, who leaves their phone behind, where their wife can find it and get super suspicious? 

[meep.meep]

Jonathan gets released from prison, battles his way through every single journalist in the state of NY, and gets home.  Later that day, he can just roam around the city on foot, all alone, no reporters in sight?  In real life they would be camped outside the house and he would be trapped there.  So can we just assume that all that was in Grace's imagination?

What did Jonathan do with $500K that Grace's father gave him?

[Kiss my mutt]

After seeing a lot of plastic surgery, filler and Botox fails, I’m kinda grateful I don’t have enough money to mess up my face too badly. Kidman has always seemed rather stiff in her roles and I can’t tell if she has been typecast to play those, which she does rather well at or maybe she just doesn’t have the range to play other roles. I still like her and will watch her though and think she is quite beautiful but definitely that mouth thing going on is what I tend to fixate on more than I would if she just had age appropriate wrinkles. 

[Chaos Theory]

I think “I’m not funny” lawyer lady explained entitlement to Grace who actually took it in during the beginning of the episode the way a lot of well intentioned people do but Johnathin was genuinely surprised when he was called out on going to the house of the woman who he is suspected of murdering to talk down her husband.  I also kinda liked the confrontation scene between the two sons whose names I still can’t remember. And Donald Sutherland saying “cocksucker” is funnier then it has any right to be.

[RedDelicious]

If I've learned anything from watching too much Dateline, it's that the perpetrator always goes back to the scene of the crime.  Is that what the scene with Jonathan going to the Alvez apartment was about?  Even though technically the murder didn't occur there?

[MBayGal]

2 hours ago, Maysie said:

Also, when he said "I've lost someone I love," I wondered if he was actually referring to Grace, since she told him the marriage was over at that point.

I thought this too, and expected him to clarify that he meant he had lost his wife because of his affair.  I was shocked that he meant Elena.

[DiabLOL]

When Cher was in "Mask" I remember a critic writing how upsetting it was to see such a gifted actor mess up her instrument. That an attempt to squint during a scene where she was doing needlepoint really drove the point home. I feel the same way about Kidman. I have always found her enjoyable but she is nearing Michael Jackson levels, I saw his botched up face in the scene where Hugh Grant says he loved Elena, when she tried to open her eyes wide (as wide as they will go these days).

I would bet 85 yo Donald Sutherland has had a tiny bit of work done as well but it has not affected his craft one bit. I want a spinoff show where he wreaks havoc everywhere all day all night.

Loving Lily Rabe she's always so fun and weird.

I really need to understand the phone/fake conference thing. Anyhow I'm in it until the end I have not hated the show. It's strange and has many flaws but I'm finding it very watchable. I wish I could binge it. 

[BingeyKohan]

I so, so co-sign the #explainCleveland movement. SURELY it will be a plot point in his prosecution next week. It barely makes sense without the possibility of a violent murder in his future but with a violent murder happening it would have been a hell of a lot more convenient if he could have timed the murder for when he was already supposed to be gone. But in no universe does the leaving his phone behind make sense. If he knew what he was doing he would have made sure his phone somehow pinged in Cleveland even if he wasn't there! 

(I'd also venture that having pocketed 500K - which maybe Franklin intended as 'get out my daughter's life and don't come back' money - and the way he'd said goodbye to Henry maybe he planned on disappearing for good that night.)

[Aqua]

The fake conference and timeline of the fundraiser absolutely needs to be cleared up. He mentioned the conference both the morning of the fundraiser and in the car. We now know that was a lie. So if he did the murder, did he plan it prior to lying about the upcoming trip? And If so, why does he think a pre-planned trip to Cleveland makes him look less guilty?

Why did he leave his phone in the drawer? To look like he accidentally left it? It would look more natural if it was left plugged in to charge it, not hidden in the back of a drawer. Hidden in a drawer looks like he didn't want the police to GPS his whereabouts. Again, as mentioned before, people are doing things that make themselves look guilty.

Also, at the fundraiser, why is Elena crying in the bathroom? Why is Hugh the actor, not showing what would likely be Jonathan's discomfort and awkwardness at seeing Elena across the room? And further to that, why was Hugh the actor not showing any reaction from Jonathan at all when Grace is telling him about Elena's weird behavior? 

None of this is adding up and it's making my brain hurt.

 

[LoveLeigh]

35 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

If I've learned anything from watching too much Dateline, it's that the perpetrator always goes back to the scene of the crime.  

That's why I think Miguel did it. 

[RedDelicious]

28 minutes ago, ReviewX said:

Why is Hugh the actor, not showing what would likely be Jonathan's discomfort and awkwardness at seeing Elena across the room? And further to that, why was Hugh the actor not showing any reaction from Jonathan at all when Grace is telling him about Elena's weird behavior? 

Narcissists are masters at concealing who they really are.  The mask never falls.  

[kay1864]

So let’s play detective. Suspects are Jonathan, Grace, Fernando, and Grace’s dad Franklin.  In all cases I’m wondering, “what’s their motive?”

1.  Jonathan:  Maybe Elena threatened to ruin his life by outing them to Grace?

2.  Grace: I think the portrait is a big clue. Either Grace doesn’t remember posing for it, or Elena painted it from… what? A picture from Jonathan? That makes no sense.  I think there’s a reason so much is seen from Grace’s point of view—perhaps it’s not congruent with reality.

So motive could be almost anything. Maybe she didn’t want to be outed either.

3. Fernando: he seems to have too much anger/grief for it to be him.

4.  Franklin: he paid out half a million. Maybe he discovered what it was for, and wanted to prevent further blackmail. But that doesn’t quite explain the fervor of the murder. Maybe he did that to cast blame on a jealous lover, such as his unwanted son-in-law?

[LilaFowler]

If Jonathan were the killer, he would have no alibi. He would realize as much, which is why it seems safe to eliminate him. What were his real plans during that fake conference? For some reason, it seems unlikely that he was going to spend it with Elena, hiding out at her studio. Someone else knew about the fake trip and where he was supposed to be at that time, possibly the same person who followed Jonathan to Elena's studio that night, waited until he left and then murdered her.

[RedDelicious]

10 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

Elena painted it from… what?

I was thinking Elena took a photo of Grace when she was out doing one of her walks.  Elena was an artist, so it might make sense that she was in to photography, and it seemed like she had some pretty stalkerish qualities to her.  Grace seems to retreat into her own world when she's walking, so she wouldn't necessarily have noticed if someone took her picture as she walked by.  Also if Grace is prominent on the UES social scene as she seemed to be, any one of a number of photos on the internet could have served as the inspiration for the painting.

[mjc570]

I still find Hugh Grant charming, but I think this shows that charm is not a solid foundation.  I thought Haley’s comment, that her strategy is to make people (potential jurors, I assume) see the charm that Jonathan sees in himself, very shrewd.  She specifically didn’t say that she or anyone else found him charming.  
I have to say my 2nd favorite moment was the chess game, when Grace’s father confessed his infertility and we realized that Grace (the “trained clinical psychologist “) is either delusional or completely unaware.  
my favorite moment, though, was the “cocksucker” talk, although I’m not sure the term really had the meaning Donald Sutherland ascribed to it.  

[LilaFowler]

Also, where was Jonathan spending his days when he was pretending to be at work?

[kay1864]

14 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

any one of a number of photos on the internet

 See, this is why my middle name is emphatically not Pierot or Marple. 

At this point then, my money’s on Franklin.

Moi:

Edited November 16, 2020 by kay1864

[izabella]

29 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

2.  Grace: I think the portrait is a big clue. Either Grace doesn’t remember posing for it, or Elena painted it from… what? A picture from Jonathan? That makes no sense.  I think there’s a reason so much is seen from Grace’s point of view—perhaps it’s not congruent with reality.

So motive could be almost anything. Maybe she didn’t want to be outed either.

She is my number 1 suspect.  She is an unreliable narrator, and I can't tell half the time what is real and what isn't, and I wonder whether she can either.   She's having unexplained fainting spells, so yeah, she could easily also have unexplained time where she doesn't remember what she does. 

As for the video tape exonerating her, nope.  We could easily find out the time stamp was incorrect for whatever reason.

[mjc570]

27 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

I still find Hugh Grant charming, but I think this shows that charm is not a solid foundation.  I thought Haley’s comment, that her strategy is to make people (potential jurors, I assume) see the charm that Jonathan sees in himself, very shrewd.  She specifically didn’t say that she or anyone else found him charming.  
I have to say my 2nd favorite moment was the chess game, when Grace’s father confessed his infidelity and we realized that Grace (the “trained clinical psychologist “) is either delusional or completely unaware.  
my favorite moment, though, was the “cocksucker” talk, although I’m not sure the term really had the meaning Donald Sutherland ascribed to it.  

 

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, kay1864 said:

 

2.  Grace: I think the portrait is a big clue. Either Grace doesn’t remember posing for it, or Elena painted it from… what? A picture from Jonathan? That makes no sense.  I think there’s a reason so much is seen from Grace’s point of view—perhaps it’s not congruent with reality.

Not that big of a clue.  Or at least not one that any lawyer worth their “muck” couldn’t explain away.   The two women have met and Elena is an artist and any decent artist could in fact draw from less.  

[Snow Fairy]

Will they go in the obvious territory and make Jonathan say he thinks Elena's husband killed her?

[kay1864]

17 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Not that big of a clue.  Or at least not one that any lawyer worth their “muck” couldn’t explain away.   The two women have met and Elena is an artist and any decent artist could in fact draw from less.  

Yu are doubteeng an official from ze Prefecture de Police??

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by kay1864

[heatherchandler]

3 hours ago, DiabLOL said:

When Cher was in "Mask" I remember a critic writing how upsetting it was to see such a gifted actor mess up her instrument. That an attempt to squint during a scene where she was doing needlepoint really drove the point home. I feel the same way about Kidman. I have always found her enjoyable but she is nearing Michael Jackson levels, I saw his botched up face in the scene where Hugh Grant says he loved Elena, when she tried to open her eyes wide (as wide as they will go these days).

 

 

She is approaching Michael Jackson levels.  I think it was that same scene, you see her with her mouth closed, in a weird way, then she opens her mouth and licks her lips and you can tell she is having to keep her mouth open or it would close weird.  It is like when the latch of a box breaks and you have to purposely line up the top to the rest of it so it will close properly.  It must be exhausting. 

Also her eyes are getting piggie-like, when they are so puffed up from the fillers that they are round and not eye-shaped.

[DiabLOL]

4 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

 

She is approaching Michael Jackson levels.  I think it was that same scene, you see her with her mouth closed, in a weird way, then she opens her mouth and licks her lips and you can tell she is having to keep her mouth open or it would close weird.  It is like when the latch of a box breaks and you have to purposely line up the top to the rest of it so it will close properly.  It must be exhausting. 

Also her eyes are getting piggie-like, when they are so puffed up from the fillers that they are round and not eye-shaped.

Yes the eyeliner was so weird it totally took me out of the scene.

This is making me think of the devastation lots of silent film actors experienced when talkies came in and their voices were not up to snuff or when Montgomery Clift's face was smashed up in his car accident. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Apart from those, in every single thing I've watched her in, I've had the same complaints as in The Undoing. Her performance always takes me out of the show. This was true in Big Little Lies, a show I otherwise really enjoyed. 

She's not very good at disguising her Australian accent. I think someone brought this up last week, but I hear it slip in every now and again and it is distracting. At first I thought there's nothing really to say this character isn't supposed to be Australian, but her father is Donald Sutherland who is obviously American, so now I'm thinking up excuses like maybe she spent her childhood with her mother in Australia, except it appear her parents remained married even though her father was a serial cheater. I guess I just have to go with her having some weird affection in her manner of speech.

[SourK]

I strongly disliked the scene where they tried to meme by having Donald Sutherland call himself a cocksucker twice. His explanation didn't even make sense. It was just like, "I don't mean it in the sense of being gay, I mean it in the sense of being a person you really don't like who you might call gay as an insult, because it's 1970 and you're not woke to homophobia." Okay.

20 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Jonathan is so narcissistic he thinks as long as he can talk to someone, explain his side, people will find him a sympathetic character. Just like, he can walk right into Mr.Alvez’s apartment like that, say a few things, act concerned and approach Miguel like nothing has changed. 

I liked that the lawyer called that out, though she didn't go far enough -- it's classic narcissism, like we saw with him last week. Believing that what he wants is so important that he can just convince everyone else to get on board with it, no matter what the circumstance. I grow more suspicious of Jonathan each week.

19 hours ago, Ashforth said:

I thought it was odd that Fernando let Jonathan into the apartment, but very real and touching when he admitted that he has tried but doesn't love baby Teresa. It actually made sense to me that he asked Jonathan if he wanted to feed her. I thought it was to evaluate whether he might trust Jonathan with her. I kind of wanted him to agree to allow Jonathan to take her, if even as a test period.

That scene was super weird. From Fernando's POV, if he's not the murderer and he believes Jonathan is, why would he ever let Jonathan near his wife's baby? His son's sister? That's nuts.

18 hours ago, ReviewX said:

The next scene is in the hospital. Henry and her dad show up and then Jonathan. She says she passed out from shock and is being discharged. Jonathan takes out his penlight and checks her vision and some other things and says she's fine and they hold hands meaningfully. Dad looks annoyed. The next scene is the chess game.

I kind of thought that maybe Jonathan poisoned her or something, so that he could make a big show of being a doctor and impress upon everyone how much they need him, but then he wasn't there when she got sick, so he had to run to the hospital and force the scene to happen anyway. And that thought made me laugh.

8 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Annoying cliffhanger at the end there. I'll speculate that Jonathan is going to say that Elena had another lover and that's who might have killed her.

Based on the way cliffhangers have gone, and the way people answer questions on this show, I speculate that he says nothing. They just ask him if he knows who the murderer is and he says "Yes, I do," and that's literally the end of the interview. It's just awkward looks from there.

8 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Odd how the other attorney has a such a strong gut feeling that Jonathan is innocent. Did Jonathan also charm him in some way or is he right?

I don't actually remember, but the last time that guy was here, I thought his gut instinct was that Jonathan was guilty?

[Kirsty]

Ooh, good ending!

Donald Sutherland played a larger role in this episode. I hope he's a big distraction from the real killer.

I found the Fernando/Jonathan scene really off. First, Fernando had absolutely no reason to let Jonathan into his home. Realistically he would tell Jonathan to take a hike, or start yelling at him, or warn him away from his family before closing the door in his face. And then when he offered to let Jonathan hold the baby, I thought it must be a dream scene. You were cheating with my recently deceased wife and maybe you bludgeoned her to death, but would you like to have a seat in my home and hold the baby??! That made no kind of sense to me.

Apart from that bizarre behaviour, I absolutely hated Jonathan for imposing on the family like that. It was incredibly selfish to visit. That scene had a real ring of Downton Abbey off it. The massive wealth and luxury of Jonathan and Grace compared with the small home of Fernando and Elena where Jonathan pushes in and lays hands on their child. (Wasn't there a Downton plot where Lady Edith gives her baby to a farmer and his wife and later Edith takes the child back again?)

Like everyone else here, I assume Jonathan had his previous affair with Sylvia. But there are two episodes left, which means the show will distract us by making an innocent person look totally guilty next week, before the killer is revealed in the finale. So I suspect that innocent person will be Sylvia.

Hugh Grant made some weird faces towards the end of that interview. First I thought he was going to reveal a split personality or some other kind of mental disorder. Then I thought drugs. But I think that was simply Hugh Grant's attempt at performing "man struggling not to cry". 😄

Quote

I’m obsessed with the fake conference, fake trip part.

He's been faking for months. He wasn't going to work so he was faking everyday. The Cleveland conference was just another part of the front he presented to his wife to keep her from suspecting anything had changed in his professional life. In the recent past maybe there were fake trips to allow him to sleep with Elena. And he left his phone in a drawer because he didn't want to be found.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Kirsty

[Aqua]

4 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

That's why I think Miguel did it. 

Has anyone notice that Miguel has yet to utter a word? 

[Ashforth]

4 hours ago, MBayGal said:

I thought this too, and expected him to clarify that he meant he had lost his wife because of his affair.  I was shocked that he meant Elena.

We actually don't know who he meant. I thought he meant Grace. Then it struck me that he and Haley may have cooked that up to rock Sylvia by inferring that he loved Elena. When he said that he thinks he knows who did it, I thought: Sylvia!

4 hours ago, ReviewX said:

Also, at the fundraiser, why is Elena crying in the bathroom? Why is Hugh the actor, not showing what would likely be Jonathan's discomfort and awkwardness at seeing Elena across the room? And further to that, why was Hugh the actor not showing any reaction from Jonathan at all when Grace is telling him about Elena's weird behavior? 

I assumed that Elena was crying because she thought Jonathan loved her and would leave Grace for her and their baby, but there he was, happy with his wife.

2 hours ago, kay1864 said:

So let’s play detective. Suspects are Jonathan, Grace, Fernando, and Grace’s dad Franklin.  In all cases I’m wondering, “what’s their motive?”

You left out Sylvia, my number one suspect right now.

2 hours ago, mjc570 said:

I have to say my 2nd favorite moment was the chess game, when Grace’s father confessed his infertility and we realized that Grace (the “trained clinical psychologist “) is either delusional or completely unaware.  

I know you meant "infidelity" but the typo made me laugh. 

2 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

Also, where was Jonathan spending his days when he was pretending to be at work?

Such a good question, Hanging out with Elena and Sylvia, I guess.

1 hour ago, Snow Fairy said:

Will they go in the obvious territory and make Jonathan say he thinks Elena's husband killed her?

Doubtful.

43 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

She is approaching Michael Jackson levels. 

Michael Jackson's nose tissue literally died from too many procedures and and his nose fell off or had to be surgically removed. Kidman is not anywhere close to that. She should lay off the Botox, but MJ levels? Not in my opinion.

[LilaFowler]

Fernando's behavior has never made sense to me, not at any point. He doesn't seem to be all that upset that his wife was murdered. He allows the man who is accused of the crime to come into his home and hold a helpless baby, when he should really be on the phone to 911. Does he ever ask him, 'hey, why'd you kill my wife?' Instead he just hands him the child and shares his true feelings. What is the explanation here? It seems like he knows for a fact that Jonathan didn't kill Elena.

[Aqua]

2 hours ago, kay1864 said:

4.  Franklin: he paid out half a million. Maybe he discovered what it was for, and wanted to prevent further blackmail. But that doesn’t quite explain the fervor of the murder. Maybe he did that to cast blame on a jealous lover, such as his unwanted son-in-law?

Franklin confessed to Grace about the infidelity to her mother. Maybe he believes the women he had sex with were shameless vixens who tempted him, and by killing Elena, who he somehow found out was Jonathan's lover, he extinguishes the vixen that threatened to wreck his daughter's marriage and also makes amends to his dead wife? (I really hope it's not that).

On another note, is it possible that Franklin killed his wife?

[Aqua]

2 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

Someone else knew about the fake trip and where he was supposed to be at that time, possibly the same person who followed Jonathan to Elena's studio that night, waited until he left and then murdered her.

But he wasn't going to Cleveland til the following day. If he killed her, he did it between the fundraiser and before he crawled into bed with Grace later that night, right? Then when she woke up, he was gone, presumably to Cleveland, until she finds his phone in the drawer. I don't know...this is very confusing.

[TomGirl]

7 hours ago, Maysie said:

Also, when he said "I've lost someone I love," I wondered if he was actually referring to Grace, since she told him the marriage was over at that point.

That was what I thought, too, but we seem to be in the minority!

[Aqua]

27 minutes ago, SourK said:

Based on the way cliffhangers have gone, and the way people answer questions on this show, I speculate that he says nothing. They just ask him if he knows who the murderer is and he says "Yes, I do," and that's literally the end of the interview. It's just awkward looks from there.

It's possible he doesn't say who it is but uses it as leverage against Grace, implying he might be about to accuse her. 

[Aqua]

11 minutes ago, TomGirl said:

That was what I thought, too, but we seem to be in the minority!

First I thought that but then when I saw the anger in Grace's eyes I realized he probably meant Elena.

[JennyMominFL]

20 minutes ago, TomGirl said:

That was what I thought, too, but we seem to be in the minority!

I thought he meant Grace.

[JaneDigby]

3 hours ago, kay1864 said:

So let’s play detective. Suspects are Jonathan, Grace, Fernando, and Grace’s dad Franklin.  In all cases I’m wondering, “what’s their motive?”

 

5. Sylvia: could be the "sad sex" partner, which would explain why Jonathan went to her with his work legal problems, she kept the conversation on Elena (and her boobs) which could mean she was jealous of her affair with Jonathan. Bonus points for the meaningful looks the two exchanged during the arraignment. 

[Bluesky]

7 hours ago, Mackey said:

 

Leaving phone? Also, unrelated? But, very confusing.  Most people, of his ilk,  would be checking texts as they walk out the door. How did he not turn around in minutes, noticing it missing? 

I’m obsessed with the fake conference, fake trip part. I’m mostly obsessed that nothing is being said about it with Grace and the cops, like “Ah, after the murder, your murdering husband did not go on his fake trip to a fake conference but instead claims he did a fake panic run when he saw Elena dead. We think it’s all fake fake fake and don’t care about the fake cleveland trip story. We just care about the faked panic run.”

I 

Maybe he left his phone behind because he was leaving and not planning on returning.  I bet he had that $500,000 so that he and Elena could take off with the baby and start a new life.  The fake conference would give him some time to get away.  
When he went to get Elena maybe she changed her mind and he killed her in a rage or he actually came in to her already murdered.   

[LoveLeigh]

1 hour ago, ReviewX said:

Has anyone notice that Miguel has yet to utter a word? 

Yes I was thinking about that today. 

[Bluesky]

5 hours ago, DiabLOL said:

When Cher was in "Mask" I remember a critic writing how upsetting it was to see such a gifted actor mess up her instrument. That an attempt to squint during a scene where she was doing needlepoint really drove the point home. I feel the same way about Kidman. I have always found her enjoyable but she is nearing Michael Jackson levels, I saw his botched up face in the scene where Hugh Grant says he loved Elena

Funny you mentioned this, I thought of The Mask movie when Nicole Kidman’s face was shown at different angles.  It reminded me of the boy whose face couldn’t move, same shape and everything.  

[Happytobehere]

20 hours ago, kay1864 said:

Yes, did he have to actually say that on television? Couldn’t he have said “someone I cared for”? This will turn the jury against him, since it implies he doesn’t love his wife.

He doesn’t love his wife. Donald Sutherland’s character was correct. Jonathan played Grace from jump, she’s just to stupid to acknowledge that and cut her losses. I can’t believe that she asked her father to pay that low-life’s bail after it was revealed that he used her father’s money to pay for his mistress’s child to go to the same school as her son (and he lied saying the money was going to help Grace’s son), he bamboozled another half a million from her father, and he cleaned out their bank account.  Despite all of this, Grace still has not asked about that money. I don’t know if Grace is the killer, but I do know that it is hard to have sympathy for the perpetually stupid.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, ReviewX said:

Has anyone notice that Miguel has yet to utter a word? 

He definitely spoke in the first episode. The morning after the murder, he asked his dad where Elena was.

Edited November 17, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[LoveLeigh]

Now I am lost. Who was the man Grace met in that restaurant who had steak and fries? 

[Aqua]

1 minute ago, DakotaLavender said:

Now I am lost. Who was the man Grace met in that restaurant who had steak and fries? 

The public defender that represented Jonathan at first.

[grawlix]

1 minute ago, DakotaLavender said:

Now I am lost. Who was the man Grace met in that restaurant who had steak and fries? 

He was the public defender that Johnathon was originally assigned to.  He is the one Sylvia called "The Badger".