E01.03: Art of the Swoon

[Door County Cherry]

Airs 12/25/20

Quote

After Daphne catches the eye of a royal suitor, she turns to Simon for relationship advice.  Lady Featherington tries to browbeat Marina into marriage. 

 

[BlackberryJam]

This might have been part of E2, but binging makes it difficult. I love love love Eloise and Penelope trying to figure out how Marina became pregnant. I have to stop at this episode and head out for some holiday festivities.

The scene of Simon explaining masturbation to Daphne was hot. Simon just reeks of hotness. I adore Lady Danbury. Simon was doing quite the smolder. 

This entire show is an absolute delight.

[krankydoodle]

I enjoyed the sibling bonding scenes in this episode and wish there were more of those. For all that Lady Bridgerton said that they eat together because they all like each other, they're sometimes weirdly formal with one another and don't seem to be as close as I would've expected.

[dkb]

Feel so bad for Marina, and can't believe that Lady Featherington actually thinks that what she did was a good idea.

[wanderingstar]

This is the episode where things began to click for me, which is to say, I actually became invested in the characters (will it last, who knows?)

The characters I'm enjoying the most are Lady Danbury, Eloise and of course Queen Charlotte.

[Brn2bwild]

I'm working my way through this series.  Not digging the characters so far except maybe Penelope.  Daphne seems like an occasionally witty cipher.  I'm sure Eloise is a fan favorite, but she bugs the hell out of me -- she seems like a 90s Goth plopped into the Regency period.  Slouching, smoking, dropping acid one-liners... all she needs is to start wearing black.  While I'm sure there were misfits aplenty in the Regency era, I don't believe for one minute she would exist in that period.  

[bijoux]

Shit, I did not expect Mrs Featherington resorting to forgery. That was downright villainous. 

What is the matter with people thinkimg that Daphne would be happy eith a visiting prince? The key word being visiting. Oh, yes, that sounds perfect for a girl very close to her large family. 

I'm still not vowed with Daphne and Simon as a couple, but I am enjoying the family moments we are given, like Daphne and Anthony in the kitchen, or Eloise and Benedict in the garden. I swear, Eloise is likely to combust from frustration by the end of the season. The actress plays her with such vibrancy that you feel it coming through the screen. 

Spoiler

I'm stumped as to how she's supposed to survive some ten odd seasons when she's this frustrated before even coming out. 

[Enero]

I’m really enjoying the interactions between Daphne and Simon. The latter’s lesson to the former about masturbation was great. I could see and feel the heat building between them. Then he ends the lesson with “I’ll show you…come.” I had to laugh at the pun. These two were  really starting  to grow into their “feigned” courtship until it all fell apart. I wonder how long this push pull will go on between them before they realize they are attached to each other. 

When the Queen walked up with the Prince of Prussia I thought, upon first glance, that she was wearing a hat then quickly realized it was her hair – an Afro. Loved it!

I feel bad for the Opera singer. Being a “modern” woman who is not from a wealthy family in the early 19th century will never end well. She was very naïve to believe Anthony when he said he’d take care of her forever. But glad she finally came to her senses. 

Poor Marina. Lady Featherington can be a bitch but her words to Marina were right. Though her deceit was reprehensible, I can understand why she did what she did. Who knows if or when the father of Marina’s baby will return from war. And if he does return it is unlikely he’ll claim his baby and relationship with Marina. I think Marina’s only choice in “saving” herself is to find a suitor before she starts showing and marry.

 

 

[toomuchtv]

I’m just really not getting that daphne is truly the most beautiful, eye catching, belle of the season. The actress seems to have no presence to me.

[BlackberryJam]

4 minutes ago, toomuchtv said:

I’m just really not getting that daphne is truly the most beautiful, eye catching, belle of the season. The actress seems to have no presence to me.

She is a bit of a limp dishrag. I keep thinking of her as low-rent Keira Knightly.

[EyewatchTV211]

44 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

She is a bit of a limp dishrag. I keep thinking of her as low-rent Keira Knightly.

You and I seem to share a brain with this series. Her voice and facial mannerisms are totally Keira Knightly, even if she doesn't look like her (except maybe the mouth). 

[DearEvette]

Oh. My Gods.  Queen Charlotte's Afro was giving me life!

21 hours ago, bijoux said:

 I am enjoying the family moments we are given, like Daphne and Anthony in the kitchen, or Eloise and Benedict in the garden. I swear, Eloise is likely to combust from frustration by the end of the season. The actress plays her with such vibrancy that you feel it coming through the screen. 

I love the family moments.  Also I think whoever read the books to adapt them share my mind because to me Regency romances are peppered with indolent young lords and the best way to visually show that is to have them slouching indolently on chairs and settees.  So far the slouch count in this show is very high.  I approve.

Another regency staple is the modiste who pretends to be French but is really from Cornwall or Yorkshire on some such.  Score.

Also I think the sub plot with Sienna is a bit of a misstep.  And Opera Singer/kept woman would know the score.  The class and respectability divide is severe and no way would she have expectations of being kept indefinitely by Anthony or complain about his role toward his family especially since he is the head of the household. 

2 hours ago, toomuchtv said:

I’m just really not getting that daphne is truly the most beautiful, eye catching, belle of the season. The actress seems to have no presence to me.

But alas, they do not share my mind with Daphne.  No way she would jump to mind as the season's diamond.  She is bland as hell.  And her bangs are tragic.  A different actress would have made that last scene really pop.

Meanwhile Simon is smoldering all over the place. And yes the scene where he talks about masturbation was all sorts of smolder.  I loved the little play on words at the end where he tells her to 'come' and of course the way he says it she infers it to mean the conversation is over and to follow him,. but given how his previous sentence ended it was definitely talking about, er, um, the culmination of the act.  LOL.

And holy cow, Benedict speaks!!

 

[BlackberryJam]

3 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Oh. My Gods.  Queen Charlotte's Afro was giving me life!

I love the family moments.  Also I think whoever read the books to adapt them share my mind because to me Regency romances are peppered with indolent young lords and the best way to visually show that is to have them slouching indolently on chairs and settees.  So far the slouch count in this show is very high.  I approve.

Another regency staple is the modiste who pretends to be French but is really from Cornwall or Yorkshire on some such.  Score.

Also I think the sub plot with Sienna is a bit of a misstep.  And Opera Singer/kept woman would know the score.  The class and respectability divide is severe and no way would she have expectations of being kept indefinitely by Anthony or complain about his role toward his family especially since he is the head of the household. 

But alas, they do not share my mind with Daphne.  No way she would jump to mind as the season's diamond.  She is bland as hell.  And her bangs are tragic.  A different actress would have made that last scene really pop.

Meanwhile Simon is smoldering all over the place. And yes the scene where he talks about masturbation was all sorts of smolder.  I loved the little play on words at the end where he tells her to 'come' and of course the way he says it she infers it to mean the conversation is over and to follow him,. but given how his previous sentence ended it was definitely talking about, er, um, the culmination of the act.  LOL.

And holy cow, Benedict speaks!!

 

I LOVE Queen Charlotte, but I’m a bit curious about why we are seeing NONE of her thirteen living children, although I’m not sure how they could fit that in. I adore her costuming and that actress is KILLING IT.

I’d love a SlouchOMeter for this show.

The opera singer, yeah, it’s a real sour note for me. 

I love the modiste.

Smoldering Simon brings the hot while Dishrag Daphne brings the bland. 

[ursula]

I find it hard to believe women were this naive in Regency times. I mean they still had periods and puberty, right? 

[BlackberryJam]

3 minutes ago, ursula said:

I find it hard to believe women were this naive in Regency times. I mean they still had periods and puberty, right? 

Yes, they had periods and developed breasts, but sex was not discussed at all. There were things like, “X must be so and so’s child because X looks so much like so and so,” but the actual physical act of sex was never, ever discussed. Unless a girl grew up on a farm and saw animals fornicating, she would have no idea until her mother told her vaguely something along the lines of “submit to your husband, whatever he may want, and think of the joy of children.”

The show makes it clear that Eloise and Penelope, along with Daphne, know absolutely nothing. They don’t know about penises. They would never have even heard the word or any other euphemism. There were no biology classes, no science classes really at all. Maybe some botany so they could grow pretty gardens and arrange a nice bouquet. They were taught sewing and painting and which fork to use. And they were taught not to ask. Eloise demanding to know where babies come from is so hilarious because women aren’t supposed to give that any thought. It’s all “Oh, once you’re married, babies happen.” Pregnant women didn’t even go out in society. 

[Featherhat]

 

4 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Yes, they had periods and developed breasts, but sex was not discussed at all. There were things like, “X must be so and so’s child because X looks so much like so and so,” but the actual physical act of sex was never, ever discussed. Unless a girl grew up on a farm and saw animals fornicating, she would have no idea until her mother told her vaguely something along the lines of “submit to your husband, whatever he may want, and think of the joy of children.”

The show makes it clear that Eloise and Penelope, along with Daphne, know absolutely nothing. They don’t know about penises. They would never have even heard the word or any other euphemism. There were no biology classes, no science classes really at all. Maybe some botany so they could grow pretty gardens and arrange a nice bouquet. They were taught sewing and painting and which fork to use. And they were taught not to ask. Eloise demanding to know where babies come from is so hilarious because women aren’t supposed to give that any thought. It’s all “Oh, once you’re married, babies happen.” Pregnant women didn’t even go out in society. 

Yes, my grandmother said her mother said something along those lines about sex in the 1940s and she was a good girl who had no idea (said with a wink). 

Some generations could barely talk about what periods were and girls thought they were dying until their mothers gave them towels and told them to use them without explaining anything. 

It's not like parents always find it easy to talk to their teens about it today and some actively pull them out of sex ed classes. In this era they just had a governess and didn't mix with anyone but girls just like them.  

These girls aren't even supposed to be alone with a man without a chaperone or witnesses. Which is why Berbrooke's threat was effective that he'd been alone on the "dark walk" with Daphne. 

Some might find out, a lot of romance books do go for the "I've seen farm animals" option or "bribed a maid to tell me" if they don't want to go the WTF? route but I don't think it's in the slightest bit out of place for Eloise or Penelope to have no idea and to put the bits they DO know together come up with nonsense and realise they're missing something huge. 

I think it was one of the problems with society and not just then. Girls are deliberately given no information and then punished if they unknowingly find themselves in a situation they have no knowledge about and can't get out of. 

[DearEvette]

50 minutes ago, ursula said:

I find it hard to believe women were this naive in Regency times. I mean they still had periods and puberty, right? 

I think it is more a case of a certain class of women had no clue.  The upper class or 'gently bred' women were super sheltered.  But the merchant class, servant class and peasant stock were much more knowledgeable.  I imagine that in reality some upper class women learned on their own about their own bodies and masturbation just because... nature.  But the mechanics of actual penetrative sex may have still been a mystery.

This is one of the reasons I am liking Eloise's frustration because she is right , the women of their class had no prospects.  They had to marry if they did not and they were lucky enough to have a wealthy or well off enough family they could just live as a spinster off their family.  But if the family wasn't that rich, then they had ever diminishing options: Governess or companion.  The idea of getting any other sort of job was simply alien.  This is why I don't think she is necessarily  anachronistic.  There had to have been women who chafed at their role throughout history, they just never had the power to forment change until other social justice movements began to take root and people started getting adapting ideas.

Overall, I thinl the entire noble class of the time had some fucked up ideas.  It was considered unacceptable to actually work, but gambling was considered gentlemanly.  The oldest sons inherited everything and the younger sons got shit unless the family had unentailed wealth the parents left something to the other sons, otherwise they had to live off the largesse of their oldest brother or marry into wealth.

[Atlanta]

Just realized the modiste is Meghan Markle from "The Windsors." LOL It's also on Netflix. It's hilarious. 

[ursula]

3 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Yes, they had periods and developed breasts, but sex was not discussed at all. There were things like, “X must be so and so’s child because X looks so much like so and so,” but the actual physical act of sex was never, ever discussed. Unless a girl grew up on a farm and saw animals fornicating, she would have no idea until her mother told her vaguely something along the lines of “submit to your husband, whatever he may want, and think of the joy of children.”

Yes but hormone so are still hormones even if you don’t understand what they are. Masturbating, playing doctor? I mean Daphne was the first daughter from a family of 8 kids and she really had no clue about sex until she was 17?

Heck, even the Good Book  itself had enough stories about sex, babies and - unfortunately rape. How were they supposed to keep their girls pure and sheltered when they literally didn’t know what they were being guarded against? Why did they think they were getting married in the first place? To play house? Find babies under cabbages? 🤣🤣🤣

What made sense to me was that women knew about sex - but were told they won’t enjoy it and that even a guy kissing you could get you pregnant not complete ignorance. 

I don’t know. It just sounds really, really ridiculous. Like I can imagine the upper class men wanting to believe that their sisters and daughters were really this clueless, but it seems flat out fiction to think the women were this naive. I mean, I guess this is fantasy Regency not real life Regency. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by ursula

[Scarlett45]

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

The class and respectability divide is severe and no way would she have expectations of being kept indefinitely by Anthony or complain about his role toward his family especially since he is the head of the household. 

Listening to her I was thinking this was a strategy to convince Anthony to buy her a townhouse and set her up with an allowance. She won’t be able to sing in the opera forever! If Anthony wants to keep her has a mistress he needs to actually provide. 

[DearEvette]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Listening to her I was thinking this was a strategy to convince Anthony to buy her a townhouse and set her up with an allowance. She won’t be able to sing in the opera forever! If Anthony wants to keep her has a mistress he needs to actually provide. 

Someone on another board made a comment that actually put this into perspective for me and made a bit of a lightbulb go off.  They said

Quote

One thing that emerged for me was how these women fought for survival using the only things available to them, be it rank in society or subterfuge to get powerful men to provide. I’m certain it was a theme Rimes wanted to shine through. The messages are pretty stunning.

And in that sense I can see why Sienna would be included and her story given some prominence.  Rhimes has always been one who promotes women's issues in he work so looking at the different situations every woman finds herself in and the calculations they need to make in order to survive be it someone like Daphne who really should be in the very best position but we see how precarious it is for even her vs. Sienna who is the very opposite of Daphne and yet they are in the same boat.  And then you have everyone in between: Mrs. Featherington, Marina and even the modiste who has to create a whole different persona.

 

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

And in that sense I can see why Sienna would be included and her story given some prominence.  Rhimes has always been one who promotes women's issues in he work so looking at the different situations every woman finds herself in and the calculations they need to make in order to survive be it someone like Daphne who really should be in the very best position but we see how precarious it is for even her vs. Sienna who is the very opposite of Daphne and yet they are in the same boat.  And then you have everyone in between: Mrs. Featherington, Marina and even the modiste who has to create a whole different persona.

Oh yes of course. I’m surprised Antony wants to have it both ways. He wants the consistent emotional and sexual relationship of a mistress, but doesn’t want to actually provide for one.

 

Sienna has every right to demand that he hold up his end of the bargain, which is making sure she’s provided for if he wants her to be exclusive with him. I wish we had gotten a speech of her telling him exactly what was required to continue seeing her. But again she doesn’t have that kind of social power. He has to offer it first.  

[Kirsty]

Quote

I mean Daphne was the first daughter from a family of 8 kids and she really had no clue about sex until she was 17?

I find this aspect of the show entirely believable. I would find it entirely believable if the show was set a hundred years later. Daphne is a gently bred lady in a time before sex education when maidens were supposed to be innocent. And the eldest is often the least worldly child, because they don't have older siblings to learn from. As the eldest daughter, Daphne would likely know the least about sex of all the Bridgertons at 17.

Quote

How were they supposed to keep their girls pure and sheltered when they literally didn’t know what they were being guarded against?

The answer is in the question! If you were doing your job of protecting your girls properly, then the girls didn't even know what they were being guarded against. That's how well protected they were. On the other hand, if your girls had unfeminine and unseemly knowledge of sexual matters? Their guardians must have slipped up and failed to shelter them effectively.

You and I might believe that knowledge about their own bodies would empower the girls, but I guess back then they believed that knowledge of sexual matters would corrupt the girls and spoil their innocence. Some people still think that way today, let alone two hundred years ago.

Quote

Why did they think they were getting married in the first place? To play house? Find babies under cabbages?

Even now, women aren't socialised to think they're getting married for a shag-fest. Of course to play house! Or more accurately, to be able to leave the family home and no longer be dependent on their parents, to make a home of their own, and to have a family.

There are a lot of things in the show that strike me as (enjoyably) unrealistic, but the girls' complete ignorance about sex is not one of them.

[BlackberryJam]

5 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

I find this aspect of the show entirely believable. I would find it entirely believable if the show was set a hundred years later. Daphne is a gently bred lady in a time before sex education when maidens were supposed to be innocent. And the eldest is often the least worldly child, because they don't have older siblings to learn from. As the eldest daughter, Daphne would likely know the least about sex of all the Bridgertons at 17.

The answer is in the question! If you were doing your job of protecting your girls properly, then the girls didn't even know what they were being guarded against. That's how well protected they were. On the other hand, if your girls had unfeminine and unseemly knowledge of sexual matters? Their guardians must have slipped up and failed to shelter them effectively.

You and I might believe that knowledge about their own bodies would empower the girls, but I guess back then they believed that knowledge of sexual matters would corrupt the girls and spoil their innocence. Some people still think that way today, let alone two hundred years ago.

Even now, women aren't socialised to think they're getting married for a shag-fest. Of course to play house! Or more accurately, to be able to leave the family home and no longer be dependent on their parents, to make a home of their own, and to have a family.

There are a lot of things in the show that strike me as (enjoyably) unrealistic, but the girls' complete ignorance about sex is not one of them.

There are still people who push Abstinence Only sex education with the argument that if you teach children about sex, they are going to want to a have sex. It’s 2020. 

[Door County Cherry]

19 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

There are still people who push Abstinence Only sex education with the argument that if you teach children about sex, they are going to want to a have sex. It’s 2020. 

Yep.  I was just going to say that I could watch a modern show about certain segments of girls who grow up in extremely sheltered environments who know nothing about sex and find it believable.

Part of keeping them ignorant is marrying them off young too.  

28 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

The answer is in the question! If you were doing your job of protecting your girls properly, then the girls didn't even know what they were being guarded against.

Yep.  That's why they were told to never be alone with a man and needed to be chaperoned at all times.  

[meatball77]

Girls would think that kissing could get them pregnant.  Even if they'd seen animals mating they might not be able to wrap their heads around that being how humans get pregnant also.  Or it makes them even more terrified of sex to start with.

I totally believe that Daphne wouldn't know. She's a "good girl" who likes everything feminine and she's not one to push boundaries.

Eloise on the other hand, she totally would have found the naughty books/print (renaissance porn) in the library and would have talked non-stop to Penny about it.

 

[chaifan]

On 12/27/2020 at 12:55 PM, toomuchtv said:

I’m just really not getting that daphne is truly the most beautiful, eye catching, belle of the season. The actress seems to have no presence to me.

The big problem for me is that she is supposed to be 20-21* but just looks sooooo young.  The actress is 25, so I think part of it is that the actress herself looks young, but add in the childish bangs, the dresses, no/minimal makeup, and Daphne to me looks like she's as young as 14-15 in many scenes, 17 at the oldest.  And that just makes it a bit creepy for her to be matched with men in their late 20's, or even older adults.  (Creepy, though unfortunately historically correct.)

And I didn't see anything particularly headturning about her outfit/appearance in the last scene.  Yeah, her hair was a little more fancy, but other than that she looked pretty much the same. 

I wish there had been explanation as to why the Queen thinks Daphne is this season's "diamond".  If they had included a line from the Queen about Daphne's "natural" beauty, innocence, youth, etc., that would have helped, especially since so many of the other young women at the balls are, in contrast, rather made up. 

ETA - just read another article putting the character at 19 at this stage of the story. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by chaifan
Correcting Daphne's age.

[Cheezwiz]

17 hours ago, chaifan said:

The big problem for me is that she is supposed to be 20-21* but just looks sooooo young.  The actress is 25, so I think part of it is that the actress herself looks young, but add in the childish bangs, the dresses, no/minimal makeup, and Daphne to me looks like she's as young as 14-15 in many scenes, 17 at the oldest.  And that just makes it a bit creepy for her to be matched with men in their late 20's, or even older adults.  (Creepy, though unfortunately historically correct.)

 

This is one of my big problems with the actress playing Daphne - I'm actually quite shocked that she's actually in her mid-twenties IRL, because I would have pegged her as being in her mid-to-late teens at the very most. She looks incredibly young and unformed to me. And as handsome as he is, this is why I haven't been finding her scenes with Lord Hastings swoony or hot - the whole masturbation scene felt cringey and creepy to me. Unfortunately the actress playing her is an extreme weak link - there's nothing captivating about her appearance-wise or charisma-wise. She looks like an ordinary unremarkable high-schooler, and I'm kind of mystified as to why she was cast in the role.

I'm continuing to plod along with the rest of the show, as I'm enjoying the sets, costumes and general frothiness, and I actually enjoy the other Bridgerton siblings (It did take me until this episode to realize the two eldest brothers were actually separate people - one has sideburns and the other doesn't - it's the only way I can tell them apart).

[Haleth]

I think Daphne is perfectly lovely.  She has a fresh dewiness about her that most of the other debutant's lack.  She doesn't use overly fussy hair styles or dresses to project an image.  I am surprised to read that she is supposed to be 19.  I was thinking more like 17 and Eloise and Penelope at 15 or 16.  A ten year difference in age between spouses in this society was nothing.

[bijoux]

19 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I think Daphne is perfectly lovely.  She has a fresh dewiness about her that most of the other debutant's lack.  She doesn't use overly fussy hair styles or dresses to project an image.  I am surprised to read that she is supposed to be 19.  I was thinking more like 17 and Eloise and Penelope at 15 or 16.  A ten year difference in age between spouses in this society was nothing. 

It really wasn't, which is why I found Daphne's put down of Berbrooke really lame and unconvincing. When I was a schoolboy, you were... - All of five? I mean, duh. Berbrooke certainly had issues but age wasn't one of them. Colin, who is in his eatly twenties is basically considered a kid. 

[meatball77]

Women were seen as long in the tooth, overly picky or forgettable if they weren't married by their fourth season (which is why it's absurd they pushed in the plot with Anthony arranging Daphne with Nigel as it was just the beginning of her first season) and old maids at 26 or so but men weren't expected to start looking until they are in their early 30s, late 20s.  So a perfect match would be a 17 or 18 year old with a 30 year old.

[Growsonwalls]

On 12/27/2020 at 3:59 PM, DearEvette said:

Also I think the sub plot with Sienna is a bit of a misstep.  And Opera Singer/kept woman would know the score.  The class and respectability divide is severe and no way would she have expectations of being kept indefinitely by Anthony or complain about his role toward his family especially since he is the head of the household. 

Men often had long-term mistresses back then that they discreetly supported. Since many of these mistresses had day jobs (in Sienna's case, she was a singer) it wasn't unreasonable of Sienna to think that she'd get a small allowance and an apartment for her many years of "service."

I'd like to see the relationship between Sienna and Anthony developed more. Does Anthony like her or is she just an easy shag? Hard to tell so far.

[Growsonwalls]

Also: it was cute that Simon was sort of jealous of the attention Daphne was getting at the ball. Cliched but cute.

On another note: Eloise's voice is way too deep. I know the character smokes but she has the vocal fry of someone who's been smoking a pack a day for 20 years.

[Atlanta]

34 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Also: it was cute that Simon was sort of jealous of the attention Daphne was getting at the ball. Cliched but cute.

On another note: Eloise's voice is way too deep. I know the character smokes but she has the vocal fry of someone who's been smoking a pack a day for 20 years.

I found it a bit distracting too.

[Haleth]

On 12/27/2020 at 3:59 PM, DearEvette said:

And Opera Singer/kept woman would know the score. 

I see what you did there. 😄

[RachelKM]

6 hours ago, bijoux said:

It really wasn't, which is why I found Daphne's put down of Berbrooke really lame and unconvincing. When I was a schoolboy, you were... - All of five? I mean, duh. Berbrooke certainly had issues but age wasn't one of them. Colin, who is in his eatly twenties is basically considered a kid. 

I had the same reaction.  It could have worked if it was delivered more as a mocking question as in "you, at 15, were intrigued by a near toddler?" More of a brushing off his smarmy attempt to convince her of his long standing devotion rather an a swipe at his eligibility as a suitor. 

[J-Man]

I noticed that Julian Ovenden played the part of the artist in that brief exchange with Lady Danbury and one of the non-Anthony Bridgerton brothers (I can't tell B & C apart yet.) I have to assume he will end up with more to do in future episodes--they generally don't cast well-known people just to give them a couple of throwaway lines.

[shapeshifter]

On 12/28/2020 at 11:07 AM, Kirsty said:

And the eldest is often the least worldly child, because they don't have older siblings to learn from.

Agree. This is often how it works. 

 

 

4 hours ago, J-Man said:

I noticed that Julian Ovenden played the part of the artist in that brief exchange with Lady Danbury... I have to assume he will end up with more to do in future episodes--they generally don't cast well-known people just to give them a couple of throwaway lines.

Could he (Sir Henry Granville) be Lady Whistledown?

Whenever Queen Charlotte (Golda Rosheuvel) is on screen I think of Wanda Sykes, LOL. It's not just her physicality, but I keep wondering if the actress is modeling the Queen's personality a bit on Sykes' sense of superior snarkiness. 
The Queen is another who is also in the running in my mind as Lady Whistledown. 
And after this episode, the artistic brother too. 

 

On 12/27/2020 at 2:59 PM, DearEvette said:

On 12/27/2020 at 11:55 AM, toomuchtv said:

I’m just really not getting that daphne is truly the most beautiful, eye catching, belle of the season. The actress seems to have no presence to me.

But alas, they do not share my mind with Daphne.  No way she would jump to mind as the season's diamond.  She is bland as hell.  And her bangs are tragic.  A different actress would have made that last scene really pop.

I think I get what they were going for with the casting for Daphne. She's supposed to have that delicate flowery quality overall so that when her notes of wit or fire flare up she doesn't appear hardened. Also, in this setting, the "diamond" must be demure. 

 

 

 

 

[Growsonwalls]

Romance novel heroines are always supposed to be pretty but not THE prettiest. Daphne is very much in that mold. It's supposed to be their mind or heart that really catches the attention of the Super Hot Guy. In this case, Daphne walloping Berbrooke was the spunk that drew Simon to her.

[Maya]

Doesn’t it make Daphne look bad that Simon left town without proposing to her? I don’t get it. 

[Growsonwalls]

25 minutes ago, Maya said:

Doesn’t it make Daphne look bad that Simon left town without proposing to her? I don’t get it. 

No because by then the buzz was that she had snagged a Prince. So she had traded up, so to speak. 

[shapeshifter]

17 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

So she had traded up, so to speak. 

I believe Lady Whistledown published those exact words: that Daphne had "traded up."

[Enginerd]

I find it completely believable that upper class girls knew nothing of sex. Unlike the lower classes, they weren't living in small homes with thin walls and potential exposure to their parents' nocturnal activities, or to women giving birth nearby or nursing babies in view of others, or having to help with the farm animals. They lived in mansions with governesses and constant supervision. Any saucy activities or discussions could be kept in private rooms far from the eyes and ears of children and unmarried women. They didn't go to school with all manner of people sharing information. They were educated by their governesses and tutors in only "appropriate" subjects, which didn't include much anatomy. Their media was very limited, to approved books etc. All the adults and boys were strictly trained to keep any frank talk or salacious materials well away from proper young ladies. Their friends were carefully limited to girls who were sheltered in the same way. They had periods, but dealt with them with rags etc., no need to touch. They would likely have been taught to avoid touching their nethers, although they would have been told it was because it was dirty, being where pee and poop come out. No suggestion of possible titillation, and why would most of them think to try? The appeal of marriage was that you had status and security and decent companionship if you were lucky, and could have children, which just come naturally after you're married. They were conditioned from birth to set their boundaries of what was acceptable to think about or talk about so far back from actual sex that they would likely not have wondered up to that point what was that far past the boundary. Unless they were particularly inquisitive, like Eloise, and also not easily cowed by chastisement.

[nodorothyparker]

Ye gods, the hair of the blonde the prince was first keeping time with was something. I seriously thought she was wearing a basket on her head initially. Daphne is pretty enough in a dewy, doe-eyed sort of way, but I'll admit that final scene fell a bit flat for me too as she really didn't look any different. At this point, I'm just going with it that these people think she's a "diamond" and the greatest thing ever until they get around to inventing sliced bread.

These girls are part of the London Ton, the very creme de la creme of English aristocracy. They could be sheltered in ways that working class girls living on the poor side of town Lady Featherington took her charge to wouldn't be. There's very much a double standard here that for these men, there were women you married and sired children with and women you did everything else with. Girls like Daphne were very firmly part of the first group unless they were somehow compromised, at which point they'd be considered easy prey as they became part of the second. Yeah, Lady Featherington comes off as incredibly cruel forging a Dear John letter but Marina obviously hasn't heard from the guy in awhile. They're not spelling it out, but he's off fighting Napoleon in Spain. That war dragged on for years and there's no way of knowing if or when he's ever coming back. Marina's only hope of not descending into the ranks of fallen women is to be married before her out of wedlock pregnancy becomes obvious. Simon explaining masturbation certainly was kind of hot, but also wildly inappropriate and he definitely would have known it.

The actress playing Sienna also played an actress dealing with the same dilemma on early season Poldark. Actresses and singers' best hopes usually centered around being kept by a wealthy gentleman who would provide for them enough to have something to live on as they aged out of their careers. Yeah, she and Anthony should both be clear what exactly their roles and expectations of each other are, but it seems obvious they both got caught up in feeling some things and forgot.

[meatball77]

Lady Featherington really was doing her best with the match to the old guy.  It would have been perfect for her (better than Sir Phillip actually).  He was desperate for an heir and wouldn't care if she had the baby suspiciously early.  He was wealthy and she would be able to be the ruler of her household and maintain seperate bedrooms just having sex occasionally (for heir production) and then he would become infirm and then dead and she would be able to have herself a nice Rake on the side like Anthony or Benedict.

[Growsonwalls]

14 minutes ago, meatball77 said:

Lady Featherington really was doing her best with the match to the old guy.  It would have been perfect for her (better than Sir Phillip actually).  He was desperate for an heir and wouldn't care if she had the baby suspiciously early.  He was wealthy and she would be able to be the ruler of her household and maintain seperate bedrooms just having sex occasionally (for heir production) and then he would become infirm and then dead and she would be able to have herself a nice Rake on the side like Anthony or Benedict.

And the guy being of advanced age might not have had functioning pipes. Apparently back then a lot of men had non-functioning pipes due to STD's by the time they were middle aged. With no antibiotics there was literally junk on the junk, so to speak. 

[meatball77]

Ah, the Pox. . . .   Part of the reason that powdered wigs and faces were so popular in the times before the regency era.

Lots of pox going round the whorehouses. 

[Growsonwalls]

Another thought: could Lady Featherington have passed the baby off as hers? Like a middle aged oops baby? We know Marina's dad was paying off Lord Featherington's gambling debts. Maybe passing off Marina's baby as her own could have kept the cash flow. And it wasn't unheard of -- out of wedlock children were often discreetly farmed off to relatives.

[Ohiopirate02]

21 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Another thought: could Lady Featherington have passed the baby off as hers? Like a middle aged oops baby? We know Marina's dad was paying off Lord Featherington's gambling debts. Maybe passing off Marina's baby as her own could have kept the cash flow. And it wasn't unheard of -- out of wedlock children were often discreetly farmed off to relatives.

After Marina made her debut,  no.  She was out and if she disappeared the gossips would be suspicious.   I also dont think Marinas father had any idea his daughter was not a virgin when he sent her to the Feathingtons.

[Maya]

21 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Another thought: could Lady Featherington have passed the baby off as hers? Like a middle aged oops baby? We know Marina's dad was paying off Lord Featherington's gambling debts. Maybe passing off Marina's baby as her own could have kept the cash flow. And it wasn't unheard of -- out of wedlock children were often discreetly farmed off to relatives.

It would be difficult in this particular adaptation where mixed race couples are the norm though... same with the old guy passing the baby off as his own.