S05.E12: Fully Charged

[Sweet-tea]

I still don’t understand why Bravo sat on this season so long. It has been nearly a year since filming. I would’ve enjoyed this more and found it more interesting and relevant if it aired much earlier. I’ve already grown tired of this beat-down storyline. 

I noticed Monique couldn’t be bothered to spell Candiace’s name correctly in her email. Was that shade or is she just lazy? 

As others have speculated, I think something else is going on with Ray and Karen. I wonder if there was more to the blue eyes story. He seems irritated and over her. 

Weird that they’d show Robyn saying she’s putting marriage on the back burner now and then a preview of Juan getting ready to propose. 

 

[Neurochick]

4 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

I still don’t understand why Bravo sat on this season so long. It has been nearly a year since filming. I would’ve enjoyed this more and found it more interesting and relevant if it aired much earlier. I’ve already grown tired of this beat-down storyline. 

My understanding was that  COVID was the reason the season was delayed.  

[rlc]

So I gather that none of Dr Wendy’s degrees are in child welfare based on the fact that her baby was on her lap rather than properly restrained in a car seat.

[Neurochick]

13 hours ago, drivethroo said:

I think it's more likely that Wendy and/or her mother offended Eddie's mother during the wedding process and Eddie's mother was like "Do not marry her," he refused so she shunned him and the rest of the family followed.  He said 2 of his siblings had been texting him but it sounds like a case of "If momma don't like you, I don't like you.

I'm going to say this because I'm an old lady; but if that's true then Eddie's mother is a real class 1 bitch.

[LaurelleJ]

59 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

I still don’t understand why Bravo sat on this season so long. It has been nearly a year since filming. I would’ve enjoyed this more and found it more interesting and relevant if it aired much earlier. I’ve already grown tired of this beat-down storyline. 

 

53 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

My understanding was that  COVID was the reason the season was delayed.  

Yep, the season was to start in May, but they wanted to make sure they had new content to show later in the year due to the uncertainty of the pandemic. They were supposed to be filming Atlanta at that time, but all filming was halted and they didn't know when they could start again. Bravo seems to be back on track, and Atlanta is filming now too. It's to the detriment of both Candiace and Monique that this was stretched out even longer due to the pandemic. 

[sATL]

1 hour ago, drivethroo said:

Monique's lawyer also claimed in a statement that Candiace attacked Monique FIRST so her attorney has no credibility.

Even if Candiace does want money, Monique put herself in a situation to give Candiace money.  Isn't that reason Monique wouldn't fight Robyn, because she claimed Robyn was broke and would love to sue Monique to get some money?

My attitude is if you put your hands on me and I have to sue you, you need to open your checkbook and run me my money.  Maybe the loss of some $$$ from your bank account will help you remember not to put your hands on people in the future.

my $$ in on Robyn on that bout... 

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, loveaux said:

chile have y’all seen monique’s instagram post?

 

I was trying to do this on my phone and it was a fail....as much as fail as this new brand of nonsense Monique is pulling. 

First off, your lawyer can't stop you from doing anything.  You can text or email an apology, even if you go against your lawyers advice...people do it all the time.  It's not going to help you legally, but if you did something wrong and you want to apologize there isn't an attorney who can really stop you from shooting yourself in the foot as long as you're of sound mind and body.

Second off, five days after the fight, Monique didn't even know why she should apologize.  Two days after that she suddenly saw the light?  And then spent the rest of the year bashing Candace all over social media and passionately proclaiming that she had nothing to apologize for?  That doesn't even make any sense.

She STILL hasn't apologized to Candace, over a year later.

Third, if Candace has an attorney and his strategy does not include sitting down for a mediation than thats that.  It still doesn't bar Monique from sending an apology via text, email or carrier pigeon if thats what she wants to do.  In fact, had Monique APOLOGIZED, than the attorney may have been more open to a mediation between the parties.  Anyways, it sounds like Chris Samuels is stuck again paying for Monique's poor life choices.  

[Bronzedog]

I drove through Sandy Springs today and they didn’t appear to have left any damage behind, so, there’s that.  I’m still not over Wendy choosing such a random location for her event.

[RealReality]

6 hours ago, politichick said:

Thank you! And I was okay with Ashley saying she's already married to a millionaire in response To Candace's insinuating that she's being paid to be Monique's mouthpiece. And what did stupid Candyass do? "Not for long." She just can't shut the fuck up, which is why Broke Chris has to tell her to be quiet. She always has to get in a deep dig. That's why everyone wants to smack her, although they won't. 

Ashley said she could hear the yelling from the bathroom and they showed a clip of her wondering what the hell was going on. Her mother is so crude.

I was about to ask when Michael had a cash bar, but now I vaguely can envision the scene but don't recall what the event was.

I didn't understand the wardrobe changes at Wendy's party, but I guess it may be a cultural thing. Her long nails around that baby scare me. 

LOL, its a fair question.  I binge watched most of this series so my memory is more recent.  The cash bar was for Ashley's 26th birthday party.  It was some odd animal theme with people body painted as cats and what not.  

It was a cash bar, and I cannot remember how many castmembers roasted her for it, but you KNOW Gizelle did.  

What struck me was how Michael enjoyed putting forth the appearance of wealth.  He publicly and loudly gave her a Porsche for her birthday.  He made sure everyone saw it and was duly impressed by his show of wealth and generosity.  But with all that money and wealth, he had a cash bar?  It seems like when he can make a great big show and display of his wealth he wants to do it, but he is mean with the smaller things.  

There are many rich people who pinch their pennies and are thrifty, but generally, from what I can see, that spills over into most aspects of their life.  They aren't flashy people, they mostly aren't buying flashy cars or throwing flashy parties with body painted animals.  Wealthy people who are flashy and want to show their wealth wouldn't throw a party with a cash bar.  

[sATL]

15 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I was trying to do this on my phone and it was a fail....as much as fail as this new brand of nonsense Monique is pulling. 

First off, your lawyer can't stop you from doing anything.  You can text or email an apology, even if you go against your lawyers advice...people do it all the time.  It's not going to help you legally, but if you did something wrong and you want to apologize there isn't an attorney who can really stop you from shooting yourself in the foot as long as you're of sound mind and body.

Second off, five days after the fight, Monique didn't even know why she should apologize.  Two days after that she suddenly saw the light?  And then spent the rest of the year bashing Candace all over social media and passionately proclaiming that she had nothing to apologize for?  That doesn't even make any sense.

She STILL hasn't apologized to Candace, over a year later.

Third, if Candace has an attorney and his strategy does not include sitting down for a mediation than thats that.  It still doesn't bar Monique from sending an apology via text, email or carrier pigeon if thats what she wants to do.  In fact, had Monique APOLOGIZED, than the attorney may have been more open to a mediation between the parties.  Anyways, it sounds like Chris Samuels is stuck again paying for Monique's poor life choices.  

Did candy also file a TRO ? If so that night say no communication...

[RealReality]

Just now, sATL said:

Did candy also file a TRO ? If so that night say no communication...

I don't think it would have gone through within 7 days.  IIRC, even those require some service on the person who is the adverse party and an opportunity to respond, unless its an emergency situation, but that bar is extremely high and I think more applicable to abuse situations or creepy stalking.  Of course DC may be different than my state, but thats my general understanding.  

[emmawoodhouse]

42 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I don't think it would have gone through within 7 days.  IIRC, even those require some service on the person who is the adverse party and an opportunity to respond, unless its an emergency situation, but that bar is extremely high and I think more applicable to abuse situations or creepy stalking.  Of course DC may be different than my state, but thats my general understanding.  

Candyass filed charges in Montgomery County, MD. Maybe someone knows procedure there?

[Mr. Miner]

Would it kill Bravo to run the whole clip of Monique dragging Candyass every episode? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Neurochick]

What both Ray and Karen need to understand is Karen's platform probably won't last very long.  Eight years ago NeNe Leakes was doing press for The New Normal, this year she's trying to stay relevant.  I wonder if anybody is wearing La Damme these days. 

[Baltimore Betty]

It looks like Candiace's filing charges against Monique has ended in an anti climatic way, nolle prosequi, the state decided not to pursue the case.  It was filed as second degree assault...I guess Candiace did not want to prosecute.  

Does Bravo have some clause in their contracts that the HW's cannot sue each other if they are currently under contract?

[ladle]

Does anyone know what country Dr. Wendy comes from?  I wish she'd stop being so tight-lipped about that.

It was a funny and relatable moment, but did Bravo really have to share that shot of Wendy's kid revealing his underwear?  That's going to be embarrassing for him one day if it isn't already!  

I don't think I'd ever be able to get over my husband saying he only "thinks" he loves me on national TV.  I know they're supposed to be "real" on the show, but maybe that's the type of revelation that's better left for off the air.  And imagine being one of their kids and watching that?  Yikes.  

Did Ashley really need a full-on stroller to take her baby ten feet from the car to her uncle's house?  

[drivethroo]

2 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

I still don’t understand why Bravo sat on this season so long. It has been nearly a year since filming.

COVID shut down production back in the spring so BRAVO delayed RHOP because they wouldn't have had any new programming later on if it had aired earlier.

1 hour ago, sATL said:

my $$ in on Robyn on that bout... 

Robyn was just on WWHL saying Gizelle didn't need to bring security because Robyn would've been security.  Monique knows who to try and she knew she did not want a Baltimore Beatdown.

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

But with all that money and wealth, he had a cash bar?  It seems like when he can make a great big show and display of his wealth he wants to do it, but he is mean with the smaller things.  

Michael's condo is in a building he developed and he tied Ashley's babymaking plans to how well the restaurant did financially so he probably is stingy with a penny.  They need to have a bigger house with Dean now walking and the new baby arriving.  Kids shouldn't be cooped up in a penthouse but I doubt seriously Michael will get a bigger house for them because that would mean tying himself down more to Ashley.

 

4 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Does Bravo have some clause in their contracts that the HW's cannot sue each other if they are currently under contract?

I think so and I wonder if BRAVO stepped in to make Candiace's charges go away (Monique's charges on Candiace would've been dismissed anyway).  High school kids fighting in the lunchroom get charged and prosecuted for less.

[LaurelleJ]

1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Candyass filed charges in Montgomery County, MD. Maybe someone knows procedure there?

Maybe someone can also say why Candiace filed charges in Montgomery County, where Monique and the rest of Potomac live, but not in Prince Georges County, where Candiace lives?

[RealReality]

48 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

It looks like Candiace's filing charges against Monique has ended in an anti climatic way, nolle prosequi, the state decided not to pursue the case.  It was filed as second degree assault...I guess Candiace did not want to prosecute.  

Does Bravo have some clause in their contracts that the HW's cannot sue each other if they are currently under contract?

Was Monique's instagram thing posted in here, because I think it explains a lot.  It was, ignore the spoiler tag.

So anyways, if I read between the lines, I think Candace got an attorney and in exchange for a cash settlement Candace agreed not to actively participate in Monique's criminal case and not to file a civil case against Monique.  

I don't know why Monique released that letter from Candace's attorney, because I don't think it helps her cause at all.  To me, it looks like Monique and Chris S. paid Candace off because they realized that Monique did something wrong and legally actionable.  

The fact that Candace's attorney wouldn't agree to a quick mediation makes me think that he felt his client had a reasonable case.  

I'd also imagine that Chris S. is less than happy that his hard earned money is going to bail Monique out....again.  She likely told him that doing this show was going to add to their wealth, but to date, her podcast was a bust and they (probably) paid out of pocket to settle Candace's claim.  

If Chris S. is coming down on Monique, it could explain her bizarre behavior on social media a year after the incident.  I also heard that Chris S. is giving signs of publicly co-signing Monique's behavior and so he might be salty at having to pay out too. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

I think Candace got an attorney, Chris S/Monique paid Candace and in exchange she declined to cooperate with the authorities and file a civil suit.  

If Chris S. had to come out of his pocket to pay for Monique's behavior he may be upset at her and she, consequently, gets on social media and bashes Candace, who she blames for Chris S. being mad.  

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by RealReality

[Chatty Cake]

One thing that struck me about the whole fight between Monique and Candiace was that during the fight Candiace was not a victim she was a participant screaming “good niiiiiiiight” repeatedly and “drag me.” Even after her wig got pulled and the two were separated and she started yelling again. Calling Monique names and provoking her once more. There were no tissue squares until well after the altercation.

[emmawoodhouse]

1 hour ago, LaurelleJ said:

Maybe someone can also say why Candiace filed charges in Montgomery County, where Monique and the rest of Potomac live, but not in Prince Georges County, where Candiace lives?

I think it's where the assault occurred? I don't remember where the winery was located offhand.

[Neurochick]

54 minutes ago, Chatty Cake said:

One thing that struck me about the whole fight between Monique and Candiace was that during the fight Candiace was not a victim she was a participant screaming “good niiiiiiiight” repeatedly and “drag me.” Even after her wig got pulled and the two were separated and she started yelling again. Calling Monique names and provoking her once more. There were no tissue squares until well after the altercation.

So the next time someone yells at me, I have the right to fight them?  I think in real life a person can get arrested for that.

[drivethroo]

23 minutes ago, Chatty Cake said:

One thing that struck me about the whole fight between Monique and Candiace was that during the fight Candiace was not a victim she was a participant screaming “good niiiiiiiight” repeatedly and “drag me.”

The moment Monique put her hands on Candiace's person, Candiace became the victim. If someone blaring "Good NIIIIIIIIIIGHT" provokes you to beat them up, you need serious help.

It's what the pastor said to Monique: she's used to controlling, dominating and orchestrating.  Beating up Candiace and the smear campaign is part of the controlling, dominating and orchestrating and it's consuming the show because now her fans/bots are coming after other cast members and I've heard on other forums, even fans of the show who express any opinions less than complimentary of Monique.  For the good of the show, Monique needs to go and not because of the actual fight.

[bichonblitz]

When exactly did Karen amass all this wealth Ray keeps talking about? Is it from her old lady perfume? I can not imagine anybody is buying that stuff. What else is her claim to monetary fame? I don't know how much she is paid for the show but that can go away any time. It was just a few seasons ago they were renting and lying about everything in their lives. Now Karen, who has never really worked a day as long as she was married to Ray is wealthy? Did her parents leave her a huge inheritance or something because it ain't coming from that stank perfume line. 

[albarino]

37 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

So the next time someone yells at me, I have the right to fight them?  I think in real life a person can get arrested for that.

I think if you get a wine glass in your face, it is gloves off.  I honestly don't know why nobody remembers that.  I wasn't there but I remember the "am not, are too" sorts of exchanges, M asked C to remove her finger from her face, C did not, M flips  C's hair around and C clocks her with a wine glass.  Hair gets pulled.  

I'm a broken record and I am shutting up about this (I promise) but there is a reason the word "provoked" exists in the English language.  M allowed herself to get triggered but C is far from blameless.  C has zero introspection and needs to keep her mouth shut; kindness would become her.  M needs to stay away from people like C because they aren't gracious.  Actually many of the housewives across the spectrum could benefit from a dose of kindness.

 

[DeeplyShallow]

On 10/18/2020 at 6:54 PM, LaurelleJ said:

Eh, I hate that they have what is supposed to be a beautiful ceremony for Wendy's daughter, then they have to sit around after and get into dirty housewife shenanigans. 

Robyn: so the rice...

Gizelle (cuts her off): So Candiace..... *brings up the lawsuit*

I was really annoyed. I wanted to know about the rice.

[drivethroo]

5 minutes ago, albarino said:

I think if you get a wine glass in your face, it is gloves off.  I honestly don't know why nobody remembers that.

Nobody remembers it because it didn't happen...at least not how Monique framed it.  Monique flicked Candiace's hair several times FIRST, Candiace then flicked Monique's lapel, then Monique grabbed onto Candiace's hair, dragged her hair down onto the table and tried to rip her wig off while Candiace was holding on to her wig and flailing at Monique to get off of her with the wine glass. At no point did Candiace assault Monique with the wine glass FIRST.

 

10 minutes ago, albarino said:

I'm a broken record and I am shutting up about this (I promise) but there is a reason the word "provoked" exists in the English language.  M allowed herself to get triggered but C is far from blameless.  C has zero introspection and needs to keep her mouth shut; kindness would become her.  M needs to stay away from people like C because they aren't gracious.

If Candiace isn't a victim, neither is Monique and most of the distaste for Monique is Monique and her fans trying to make her out to be the victim when she had been provoking Candiace for 3 of the previous episodes, put her hands on Candiace FIRST, broke free from the producers to run around the barn to beat Candiace up again, told the rest of her cast mates not to ever bring Candiace around again or she would kill her, managed a year old social media campaign against Candiace, released a song taunting Candiace about having beat her up, then went on the WWHL show to tell Andy Cohen she wanted to finish Candiace off.  Candiace didn't make Monique do all of that and if Monique is Pavlov's dog and that easily triggered by what Candiace says, Monique needs to be locked up in T'Challa's cage somewhere.

Monique was fighting Candiace like Candiace stole her man.  Maybe Chris Samuels made a comment about Candiace that didn't sit well with Monique.  That fight wasn't about anything Candiace said.

51 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

When exactly did Karen amass all this wealth Ray keeps talking about? Is it from her old lady perfume? I can not imagine anybody is buying that stuff. What else is her claim to monetary fame?

Karen's perfume is sold on HSN and Bloomingdales.  It has mixed reviews on HSN...you either love it or you hate it.

Apparently Karen mentioned in Season 1 that she owned a staffing agency but sold it to devote her time to Ray and the kids, so that's probably the money she's talking about.

I'd be mad too if Ray whined about me not spending enough time with him and the kids so I sold my business to cater to him and the kids, the kids are gone now and she finally has some time for herself, but Ray is whining again that she's not there for him AND she had to give him half of the proceeds from the sale of her business because he didn't handle his business with the taxes.

[albarino]

18 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Nobody remembers it because it didn't happen..

What?

18 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

I'd be mad too if Ray whined about me not spending enough time with him and the kids so I sold my business to cater to him and the kids, the kids are gone now and she finally has some time for herself, but Ray is whining again that she's not there for him AND she had to give him half of the proceeds from the sale of her business because he didn't handle his business with the taxes.

Huh?  Didn't she say he was the black Bill Gates? I can't follow your logic.  When the kids age gone, you have lots and lots of time for yourselves.  I didn't recall any discussion of taxes.  Must have missed it.

[shoetingstar]

Karen has stated clearly that Monique was wrong - Candiace (like Leah on RHoNY) is putting her mommy issues on another Mentor/Older cast mate. Karen (like Ramona) was destined to disappoint. 

One thing I have to say: Verbal and Emotion Abuse can be just as damaging and destructive and hurtful as physical abuse. Candiace sprinkles it around like confetti. She just happens to be in an work environment that condones, encourages and feeds off it - like Verbal Worldwide Wresting VWW. This would not fly in most other situations. 

Monique continues to disappoint. And sadly, the show is dryer without her. Take responsibility for your actions and the consequences must be dealt with. You can't lose control and not expect some Fall Out. 

I still maintain these two grown-ass women should have talked out whatever was happening and this mess would not be happening. And Monique still is not admitting to thing Candiace spread rumors about her Marriage?

Now, Karen does need to tell Monique she told Candiace to press charges - I think that's what's eating Karen up and why she is keeping her mouth shut. It's actually pretty smart for her to remain cautious until she can figure out what she's doing next.

[drivethroo]

2 hours ago, albarino said:

Huh?  Didn't she say he was the black Bill Gates? I can't follow your logic.  When the kids age gone, you have lots and lots of time for yourselves.  I didn't recall any discussion of taxes.  Must have missed it.

I'm not sure we are watching the same show.  There was no scene of Candiace busting Monique in the face with a wine glass prompting Monique to defend herself and the entirety of Season 2 was talking about Ray's tax woes.  There have been several scenes this season with Karen discussing Ray's taxes and how she handed half her money to him to bail him out.  Karen hasn't called Ray the "Black Bill Gates" since Season 1.  Interesting.

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

When exactly did Karen amass all this wealth Ray keeps talking about? Is it from her old lady perfume? I can not imagine anybody is buying that stuff. What else is her claim to monetary fame? I don't know how much she is paid for the show but that can go away any time. It was just a few seasons ago they were renting and lying about everything in their lives. Now Karen, who has never really worked a day as long as she was married to Ray is wealthy? Did her parents leave her a huge inheritance or something because it ain't coming from that stank perfume line. 

LOL, my sister wants a bottle of L'Dame for Christmas so I may be purchasing a bottle from...wherever its sold.  

I think Karen probably has show money and a decent chunk of change from off season appearances.  

I also think Karen owned and sold a staffing agency, which also probably allowed her a decent nest egg.  She may have already had some money of her own but not the fame.

And I'd imagine its only human that fame go to your head, at least a little.  

4 hours ago, albarino said:

I think if you get a wine glass in your face, it is gloves off.  I honestly don't know why nobody remembers that.  I wasn't there but I remember the "am not, are too" sorts of exchanges, M asked C to remove her finger from her face, C did not, M flips  C's hair around and C clocks her with a wine glass.  Hair gets pulled.  

I'm a broken record and I am shutting up about this (I promise) but there is a reason the word "provoked" exists in the English language.  M allowed herself to get triggered but C is far from blameless.  C has zero introspection and needs to keep her mouth shut; kindness would become her.  M needs to stay away from people like C because they aren't gracious.  Actually many of the housewives across the spectrum could benefit from a dose of kindness.

 

Verbal provocation almost never, ever justifies a physical response, at least legally.   

Morally, I also don't believe that there is much verbal provocation that justifies a beating.  If the argument is that verbal provocation precipitates a beating, would you feel the same if Monique were a man and started hitting Candace for being annoying and mouthy? 

What if  eight foot tall, defensive lineman (or whatever) Chris S decided Monique was being annoying and mouthy during an argument and decided to beat her?  Would you have been okay with that and handwaved it away as "allowing himself to be triggered" and placed blame on her?  If you would not, than why is there a different standard for men since anyone can be verbally provoked? 

How many times did Chris Brown supporters maintain, either implicitly or explicitly that Rhinna deserved that beating because she had "provoked"  him?  How many times have people suggested that Megan Thee Stallion "provoked" Tory Lanez into shooting her because she was "mean" to him?  To me, thats where the "But I was provoked" defense ends up. 

I also don't remember C hitting M with a glass of wine first and I thought Robyn pretty handily debunked that myth with M having to backtrack.  

"allowed herself to get triggered" is the sort of sentiment that distances Monique from responsibility and accountability.  She didn't "allow herself to get triggered" she physically attacked someone for being annoying and mouthy. 

Frankly, this is Candace's job - all of the women are there to antagonize each other.  This isn't the "Best Friends of Potomac Who Only Speak To Each Other In Dulcet Tones"

Edited October 20, 2020 by RealReality

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, shoetingstar said:

Karen has stated clearly that Monique was wrong - Candiace (like Leah on RHoNY) is putting her mommy issues on another Mentor/Older cast mate. Karen (like Ramona) was destined to disappoint. 

One thing I have to say: Verbal and Emotion Abuse can be just as damaging and destructive and hurtful as physical abuse. Candiace sprinkles it around like confetti. She just happens to be in an work environment that condones, encourages and feeds off it - like Verbal Worldwide Wresting VWW. This would not fly in most other situations. 

Monique continues to disappoint. And sadly, the show is dryer without her. Take responsibility for your actions and the consequences must be dealt with. You can't lose control and not expect some Fall Out. 

 

I don't think that anything Candace has said, even the truly, truly shitty things on social media rise to the level of verbal and emotional abuse.  And I don't think that its the same as physical abuse, because physical abuse always folds in a component of emotional abuse.  Like "you're not allowed to speak your truth because you'll by physically hurt for doing so" "I can control you from speaking your mind because I'm physically stronger"

To me, verbal and emotional abuse exist in the context of a relationship, particularly one that you are bound to and with someone you spend a significant amount of time with.  Random insults, however shitty, to me, don't rise to the level of verbal and emotional abuse because you do not have that relationship with the other person hurling insults.  I think Candace says and had said shitty things, but I don't think its verbal or emotional abuse.  Obviously YMMV, but to me, those have become buzzwords that don't always fit the situation. 

If a man at the bar calls me a "whore" because I won't give him my phone number, its an awful insult and a shitty thing to say, but is it verbal abuse?  No, I don't even really know that guy and am free to walk away from him at any time, he has no control over me.  I'm not in a relationship with him where his opinion of me would matter one way or the other or would change my life.  I might feel a little guilty about the fact that he spent $5 to buy me this diet coke on the rocks, but....oh well. 

If my boyfriend or husband calls me a whore every time I wear a skirt or talk to another man then that, IMO is verbal and emotional abuse.  I'm invested in him, in a relationship with him such that his opinion matters to me.  

If anything, Monique's repeated violent threats are probably more in line with verbal and emotional abuse since they are done with the intent to control other people through the threat of violence.  

Personally, I'm fine with Monique not being on the show.  I kinda find her boring.  T'Challa has better reads.  Monique is only mildly interesting when Gizelle throws her a crumb and decides to beef with her, but if Gizelle won't film with her, what is she going to talk about?  Monique wants to control the narrative and wants to be "perfect" and untouchable on a show that is about women coming shading and antagonizing each other.  She had a great chance to have an interesting storyline with the rumors of her dalliances with the trainer.  Instead, she chose to try to control the story from getting out and instead ended up having her storyline being her acting like a violent fool.  

But, totally agree that this is the nature of the show.  Personally, I think Gizelle and that shirt were far worse than anything Candace has said to Monique.  Gizelle and Karen have a 20 year relationship and that shirt was kicking Karen when she was down, and picking on Ray who did not a damn thing in the world to Gizelle and wasn't there to defend himself.  I love Gizelle and Karen as frenemies, but that was a very, very, very low blow.  When this Jamal thing blows up in Gizelle's face, Karen will take a victory lap, but I doubt it will be as vicious as that tee shirt.*

*-I really, really, really hope for Gizelle's sake and for the sake of her kids that Gizelle and Jamal agreed to a fake relationship so Gizelle could have a storyline.  

Edited October 20, 2020 by RealReality

[Chatty Cake]

I saw some wine splash on Monique and think Candiace did it but it’s hard to tell. I know Robyn said that didn’t happen but Robyn wants Monique to get fired so I don’t necessarily believe her, 

[pasdetrois]

If someone was violently dragging me down by my hair, and many people were suddenly piling on, and I was holding a glass of wine, I don't think I would have the presence of mind to step back and calmly lay down the wine glass. Candiace didn't pick up the glass in order to attack anyone, she was holding it when all hell broke loose. The wine glass was incidental to what was going on. The wine glass was an innocent victim.

 

[Mr. Miner]

Again, I could watch Monique dragging Candyass every episode. I loathe her that much.

[Neurochick]

11 hours ago, albarino said:

I think if you get a wine glass in your face, it is gloves off.

But did the wine glass come before or after the hair pull?

[shoetingstar]

10 hours ago, RealReality said:

I don't think that anything Candace has said, even the truly, truly shitty things on social media rise to the level of verbal and emotional abuse.  And I don't think that its the same as physical abuse, because physical abuse always folds in a component of emotional abuse.  Like "you're not allowed to speak your truth because you'll by physically hurt for doing so" "I can control you from speaking your mind because I'm physically stronger"

To me, verbal and emotional abuse exist in the context of a relationship, particularly one that you are bound to and with someone you spend a significant amount of time with.  Random insults, however shitty, to me, don't rise to the level of verbal and emotional abuse because you do not have that relationship with the other person hurling insults.  I think Candace says and had said shitty things, but I don't think its verbal or emotional abuse.  Obviously YMMV, but to me, those have become buzzwords that don't always fit the situation. 

If a man at the bar calls me a "whore" because I won't give him my phone number, its an awful insult and a shitty thing to say, but is it verbal abuse?  No, I don't even really know that guy and am free to walk away from him at any time, he has no control over me.  I'm not in a relationship with him where his opinion of me would matter one way or the other or would change my life.  I might feel a little guilty about the fact that he spent $5 to buy me this diet coke on the rocks, but....oh well. 

If my boyfriend or husband calls me a whore every time I wear a skirt or talk to another man then that, IMO is verbal and emotional abuse.  I'm invested in him, in a relationship with him such that his opinion matters to me.  

If anything, Monique's repeated violent threats are probably more in line with verbal and emotional abuse since they are done with the intent to control other people through the threat of violence.  

Personally, I'm fine with Monique not being on the show.  I kinda find her boring.  T'Challa has better reads.  Monique is only mildly interesting when Gizelle throws her a crumb and decides to beef with her, but if Gizelle won't film with her, what is she going to talk about?  Monique wants to control the narrative and wants to be "perfect" and untouchable on a show that is about women coming shading and antagonizing each other.  She had a great chance to have an interesting storyline with the rumors of her dalliances with the trainer.  Instead, she chose to try to control the story from getting out and instead ended up having her storyline being her acting like a violent fool.  

But, totally agree that this is the nature of the show.  Personally, I think Gizelle and that shirt were far worse than anything Candace has said to Monique.  Gizelle and Karen have a 20 year relationship and that shirt was kicking Karen when she was down, and picking on Ray who did not a damn thing in the world to Gizelle and wasn't there to defend himself.  I love Gizelle and Karen as frenemies, but that was a very, very, very low blow.  When this Jamal thing blows up in Gizelle's face, Karen will take a victory lap, but I doubt it will be as vicious as that tee shirt.*

*-I really, really, really hope for Gizelle's sake and for the sake of her kids that Gizelle and Jamal agreed to a fake relationship so Gizelle could have a storyline.  

Great points and I get what you're saying. However, these women are co-workers. Candiance has chosen or was contracted to play the villain and she did a good job of it. You have to expect repercussions and I don't think she did, or she thought she was protected.

[RealReality]

6 minutes ago, shoetingstar said:

Great points and I get what you're saying. However, these women are co-workers. Candiance has chosen or was contracted to play the villain and she did a good job of it. You have to expect repercussions and I don't think she did, or she thought she was protected.

I totally agree that when you're hired to verbally spar and antagonize each other on a TV show you should expect reasonable repercussions.  I just don't think that physical attack in response to verbal sparring and verbal provocation is really a reasonable response.  Such that I'd say its not particularly foreseeable.  There are likely billions of arguments in the United States every year, and I'd say that only a relatively small percentage end in physical violence.  I think if that were the case you'd have a country of smaller people constantly cowering, quiet and on edge for fear of saying anything that may be construed as provocation.  

It was totally fine for Monique to be upset, Candace played a role in making Monique upset.  The same way Ashley played a role in making Monique upset.  The same way Ashley played a role in making Robyn upset. The same way Ashley played a role in making Karen upset. The same way Gizelle played a role in making Karen upset.  The same way Karen played a role in making Gizelle upset.  The same way Robyn played a role in making Katie upset.  But, Candace played no role in Monique's attack because thats not a reasonable, foreseeable or acceptable response.  

[Neurochick]

15 minutes ago, RealReality said:

But, Candace played no role in Monique's attack because thats not a reasonable, foreseeable or acceptable response.  

When NeNe attacked Kim and the cameraman, people called her a bully, a "moose" but no one seems to call Monique those names.  Why?  Because Monique is attractive?  Because she has young children?  I find it interesting that people give Monique a pass just because she has 3 young children.  WTF?  I mean even cats give birth.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I would be closer to buying this "verbal abuse is AS BAD AS physical assault" excuse if this were about Candiace and Ashley. (But I still wouldn't buy it because no, verbal abuse is not as bad as physical assault IMO, if only because it can't lead to, like, permanent physical injury or potentially death when someone is verbally assaulted). But truly, how much "verbal abuse" have we seen Candiace direct towards Monique?  And why isn't Monique's "I will drag you!" from last season considered "verbal abuse"?

Candiace isn't someone I would want to be around a lot because she gets nasty. Just like I can't imagine ever being friends with Dorinda Medley because of her verbal nastiness. But with all of Dorinda's verbal nastiness, all of the women on RHONY were able to refrain from physically attacking her. Monique's actions don't come from Candiace's nastiness - they come from her own issues, which is what her pastor was trying to tell her. 

And it's galling how much Monique still needs to be seen as the victim in this situation. She wasn't the victim, she's the perpetrator, and that's why she (apparently) was forced to make a settlement with Candiace - not because Candiace wanted money, but because Monique acted badly. 

[Rlb8031]

3 minutes ago, RealReality said:

It was totally fine for Monique to be upset, Candace played a role in making Monique upset.  The same way Ashley played a role in making Monique upset.  The same way Ashley played a role in making Robyn upset. The same way Ashley played a role in making Karen upset. The same way Gizelle played a role in making Karen upset.  The same way Karen played a role in making Gizelle upset.  The same way Robyn played a role in making Katie upset.  But, Candace played no role in Monique's attack because thats not a reasonable, foreseeable or acceptable response.  

The problem I have with your logic is that both reasonable and acceptable are subjective, and based upon how you define those two, will impact whether something is foreseeable which is a more objective view.

As the great philosopher Mike Tyson stated "Social media made you all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it."

In Mike's world, a punch in response to disrespect is completely reasonable and acceptable. Because its reasonable to him, he's not going to understand why you didn't think it was going to happen. So to Mike, you should foresee the ass whipping that is coming from disrespecting him.

I'm also not quite understanding why Candace who has 1) called some/most of these ladies everything but a child of god; 2) has proven herself to be someone who will not let an argument drop or an opportunity to go for the jugular (with everyone including her husband) go by; and who 3) has picked up weapons before (did we all forget both the knife that was thrown and the one Wendy took from her earlier this season?) has now become the one that everyone capes for. In the totality of all of Candace's bad behavior and all of Monique's bad behavior, I'd call them just about even. 

[Neurochick]

34 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Candiace isn't someone I would want to be around a lot because she gets nasty. Just like I can't imagine ever being friends with Dorinda Medley because of her verbal nastiness. But with all of Dorinda's verbal nastiness, all of the women on RHONY were able to refrain from physically attacking her. Monique's actions don't come from Candiace's nastiness - they come from her own issues, which is what her pastor was trying to tell her. 

That is a good point about Dorinda.  She was NASTY this season and last season, especially to Tinsley.  But interestingly enough, Tinsley never felt the need to physically attack her.  

Quote

 

As the great philosopher Mike Tyson stated "Social media made you all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it."

In Mike's world, a punch in response to disrespect is completely reasonable and acceptable. Because its reasonable to him, he's not going to understand why you didn't think it was going to happen. So to Mike, you should foresee the ass whipping that is coming from disrespecting him.

 

I wouldn't take any philosophical advice from Mike Tyson.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Neurochick

[trimthatfat]

On 10/19/2020 at 2:44 PM, Legalbeagle421 said:

She's nuts. She just said two weeks ago on WWHL that if she was "fired [from the show], she might as well finish Candiace off". She said it with such conviction as if she was still in the moment. She's not sorry. In the words of Ken Todd, "Goodbye Monique." 

Monique is absolutely not sorry. In recent interviews, she still sounds genuinely pissed. One would think the fight happened yesterday the way she carries on. She is doubling down on social media. Doesn't matter that she's embarrassed herself and even her pastor had to check her, she can't get out of her own way. She's too damn prideful and arrogant. 

And I don't think Candiace actually wants Monique's money. I think she wants to teach a lesson that you can't put hands on other person. I've never believed that just because someone is talking shit to you or about you that you have a right to lay hands on them. 

[lasu]

 

46 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

As the great philosopher Mike Tyson stated "Social media made you all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it."

In Mike's world, a punch in response to disrespect is completely reasonable and acceptable. Because its reasonable to him, he's not going to understand why you didn't think it was going to happen. So to Mike, you should foresee the ass whipping that is coming from disrespecting him.

No.  Mike lives in the same world the rest of us do, where a punch is NOT reasonable and acceptable, even if it's reasonable to him.  He's also someone who thought it was reasonable to bite off someone's ear, and I don't think Holyfield found that response reasonable and acceptable.  He also thinks it's reasonable and acceptable to rape women in his world, but that's why he went to jail in the real world.  Mike Tyson is a violent, raping, spouse abusing sociopath and the only reason we should take anything he says into account is to do the exact opposite.  FFS.

 

47 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

I'm also not quite understanding why Candace who has 1) called some/most of these ladies everything but a child of god; 2) has proven herself to be someone who will not let an argument drop or an opportunity to go for the jugular (with everyone including her husband) go by; and who 3) has picked up weapons before (did we all forget both the knife that was thrown and the one Wendy took from her earlier this season?) has now become the one that everyone capes for. In the totality of all of Candace's bad behavior and all of Monique's bad behavior, I'd call them just about even. 

Candiace has shown herself to be a complete asshole and one who takes things too far.  She has not, so far, crossed the line into actual violence.  Monique has.  I like Monique a LOT more than I like Candiace, but when one person has been violent and the other hasn't, I can't call that even.

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Rlb8031 said:

The problem I have with your logic is that both reasonable and acceptable are subjective, and based upon how you define those two, will impact whether something is foreseeable which is a more objective view.

As the great philosopher Mike Tyson stated "Social media made you all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it."

In Mike's world, a punch in response to disrespect is completely reasonable and acceptable. Because its reasonable to him, he's not going to understand why you didn't think it was going to happen. So to Mike, you should foresee the ass whipping that is coming from disrespecting him.

I'm also not quite understanding why Candace who has 1) called some/most of these ladies everything but a child of god; 2) has proven herself to be someone who will not let an argument drop or an opportunity to go for the jugular (with everyone including her husband) go by; and who 3) has picked up weapons before (did we all forget both the knife that was thrown and the one Wendy took from her earlier this season?) has now become the one that everyone capes for. In the totality of all of Candace's bad behavior and all of Monique's bad behavior, I'd call them just about even. 

Reasonable and acceptable are subjective terms, and I normally use legal norms as a stand in, because what society legally allows is a reflection of what society finds reasonable and acceptable as a whole.  

Yes, there are outliers, and there are people who think you deserve to get shot for looking at them the wrong way, for poking them in the back, for stepping on their toe, for running in front of them in line at the Whole Foods or grabbing the last television from WalMart on Black Friday.  But I don't think that you can throw societal norms for reasonable and acceptable behavior out the window because there are a few people who feel a punch is totally warranted because you looked at them funny.  

I might also not take my cues about what is reasonable and acceptable from a guy who bit off another man's ears during a fight and spent six years in jail for rape and assault.  I would certainly call that the exception that proves the rule that most people find his mindset unreasonable and unacceptable.....and therefore unforeseeable. 

To address each of your points

1)  Still just words.  The worst examples that people point to are what Candace said to Ashley.  These were ugly and hurtful things to say, of course, but they were not the worst things I've ever heard.  Many people have heard much worse and managed to retain their composure.

2)  Monique tried to start a fight with Candace at the lakehouse and at a dinner with the ladies prior to the winery.  Candace apologized or walked away, so how exactly is she ALWAYS going for the jugular and won't let anything drop?  Monique then proceeded to paint herself as a victim when Candace refused to be her personal punching bag on that lame ass podcast and backed out.  Candace has gone out of her way not to engage with Monique, but yet somehow Candace is the one going for the jugular and won't let things drop?

Candace, in fact, apologized to most people she had come after prior to season 5, including Ashley and Gizelle.  She then went on to show some consideration for Ashley by privately telling her about the tea she had on Michael instead of confronting her in front of all the girls.  Ashley showed her appreciation for this consideration by mindlessly supporting Monique even though Ashley didn't see a damn thing.  And this is ostensibly because she doesn't like Candace and didn't truly accept her apology.  So who is the one that won't let things go, because to me it doesn't sound like Candace.  

3) I don't consider a butter knife a weapon, and I don't consider waving around or throwing a butter knife in someone's general direction a credible threat.  Unless Candace was gonna Country Crock a bitch to death I just don't see those as the same things.  And I'm not sure that Ashley felt very threatened either since that bitch wouldn't just leave Candace's house, as she was asked and told to.  

People try to equate the butter knife to a deadly threat of some sort and I think thats a real stretch.  Candace, as she has said, is known for clinking a glass with a knife, and it seems clear that that is what she was doing at the winery, so I think that has also been mischaracterized as Candace having some mal intent by having a knife in her hand at the winery. 

I don't necessarily think that Wendy taking the knife out of her hand is hard evidence that Candace was going to intentionally hurt anyone with a knife.  I don't know if Wendy has ever said that, in the moment, she thought Candace was going to stab Monique with the knife intentionally or any such thing.  

Edited October 20, 2020 by RealReality

[MrsRafaelBarba]

On 10/18/2020 at 11:14 PM, drivethroo said:

Wendy's mom looked like she was using Fenty: The Casket Series 490 as her foundation

 

 

:Flatline:

 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

4 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

As the great philosopher Mike Tyson stated "Social media made you all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it."

In Mike's world, a punch in response to disrespect is completely reasonable and acceptable. Because its reasonable to him, he's not going to understand why you didn't think it was going to happen. So to Mike, you should foresee the ass whipping that is coming from disrespecting him.

Mike Tyson beat his wife Robin Givens. Mike Tyson spent six years in prison for raping a woman. Mike Tyson is just as subject to laws about physical violence as anyone.  The very last person whose advice I would take on basically anything is Mike Tyson. 

4 hours ago, Neurochick said:

That is a good point about Dorinda.  She was NASTY this season and last season, especially to Tinsley.  But interestingly enough, Tinsley never felt the need to physically attack her.  

I think that is part of the reason why Gizelle, Wendy, etc. made the points they did regarding how they represent Black women with the show. I get the concerns about "respectability politics" but I can also understand why the other ladies are appalled that Monique played into (unfair and false) negative stereotypes about Black women. Because there have been other really vicious women on the Real Housewives franchises - Dorinda and Brandi Glanville come to mind - but they haven't face any physical violence. So I am sure in the back of their minds, they don't like the idea that it looks like the white women don't fight but a Black woman did instigate an assault. 

3 hours ago, trimthatfat said:

Monique is absolutely not sorry. In recent interviews, she still sounds genuinely pissed. One would think the fight happened yesterday the way she carries on. She is doubling down on social media. Doesn't matter that she's embarrassed herself and even her pastor had to check her, she can't get out of her own way. She's too damn prideful and arrogant. 

And I don't think Candiace actually wants Monique's money. I think she wants to teach a lesson that you can't put hands on other person. I've never believed that just because someone is talking shit to you or about you that you have a right to lay hands on them. 

If I had to guess, I suspect that the reason that Monique is still angry is because of the reasons that her pastor laid out - she is so controlling, and she is so invested in portraying her life as perfect, she is angry that this incident pulled away that veil of perfection. And because she's so unwilling to take responsibility for her actions, she needs to continue to deflecting because she just can't admit that she caused all of this. 

[albarino]

4 hours ago, trimthatfat said:

Monique is absolutely not sorry. In recent interviews, she still sounds genuinely pissed.

I wouldn't forget it either if I had a wine glass shoved in my face.  I don't know why people are forgiving that.  If C didn't hit M with the wine glass, who did?  We saw it.  So did the judge.  This is a very serious question.  I saw Monique getting smacked and then the hair pull.  Was it editing?

PSA:  Not getting paid by Monique.

Edited October 21, 2020 by albarino

[albarino]

3 hours ago, RealReality said:

I don't necessarily think that Wendy taking the knife out of her hand is hard evidence that Candace was going to intentionally hurt anyone with a knife. 

Well then, why did Wendy remove the knife?  When I'm eating socially with my friends, I never feel the need to remove a knife from them.  Isn't Wendy the smartest person in the room?

[truthaboutluv]

I've completely checked out of this season, as it's become all about this fight and IMO a narrative of Candiace vs. Monique, where a person has to be one or the other and I'm neither. Bottom line for me is Monique was dead wrong for striking first and allowing herself to get to that place. And she's doing herself no favors still trying to control the narrative. It is what it is - take your L and move on and let it go. 

That said, Candiace is so fucking unpleasant to me that I cannot find it in myself to feel bad for her or empathize with her, even while acknowledging that yes, Monique was wrong. And she's the only one in the cast that's like this for me. Gizelle is a messy instigator but dammit, Gizelle cracks me the hell up a lot of the times with her shade and snark. Karen and her delusions of grandeur are also entertaining, even Robin and her tired ass narrative with Juan is more palatable to me than Candiace. 

It's the smug attitude, the zero to sixty the second someone says anything she doesn't agree with, the spoiled princess bullshit. I just can't with her. When Candiace had her therapy session after the fight, she talked about how many people were essentially mocking and laughing at her and making fun of her being attacked and acting like she deserved it.

And while I'm the first to always say that social media is a toxic as fuck cesspool that most would do well to limit their time on as much as possible, I did think that maybe that should have made Candiace have some moment of self-reflection. Ask herself why so many, without any specifics of what went down, immediately assumed that she deserved it and were cheering on her "finally getting hers".

Like why would so many people feel that way. It's because she's fucking unpleasant and incredibly grating. And no, for the millionth time, that doesn't mean Monique was right in her actions. But sorry, not sorry, it's why I can't be on Candiace's side and why I'm frankly over this storyline. I'll check back in when they go on the big season trip. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by truthaboutluv