S11.E11: Let's Talk About Sex, Baby

[After7Only]

8 hours ago, Soup333 said:

Brett is one of those people that causes division amongst viewers. Same as Deonna and I guess Jamie - there are people that love her!

  

I loved Deona!   She also had a very dry sense of humor kinda like Brett.  That kind of humor just doesn’t translate well on a highly edited show like this.   Not that I love Brett...he can definitely be condescending, but I find some of his antics funny rather than azzy.   

[Ilovepie]

2 hours ago, Mollypup said:

Brett is not so bad.  He may be sarcastic but he is just trying to get through the 8 weeks.  He knows that this is not a true match for him. Olivia is pretty frustrated that Brett has given up, hence her constant annoyance.  This MAFS marriage is just much more important to her than it is for Brett.

You are probably on to something here. He is saying the right things but in a completely insincere way. He is not actually “doing” anything the show can exploit. In essence, he’s playing this game and winning, but they are not going to let that happen. Usually when someone is not cooperating or is difficult (see Christina or AJ) they are getting a shit edit. This is really interesting bc results are mixed. I’d say it’s pretty even on who is looking worse this time. Her “constant annoyance” reminds me of Meka. It’s really unpleasant to watch her frowny face talking him to death. She couldn’t even let it go when they had a fun evening out. The more she questions him the less she gets from him, the more frustrated she gets, and so on. It’s a cycle now, and they are pretty much dunzo.....their dynamic reminds me a little of Dave and Amber, minus the sex.

I really wish they had been matched with different people. I do wonder if either would have been able to be successful with someone else......

Oh, and I just have to mention the shark sipper he was drinking from - I found the juxtaposition of him drinking from that while she sat there stone faced drilling him about his commitment hilarious. 

[configdotsys]

14 hours ago, pdlinda said:

I feel the same way about Olivia.  She's not marriage material either.  She seems perfectly happy and content living as she pleases, going on trips (maybe she could join a travel group), loving her cat. loving her job and controlling every aspect of her life as she seems fit.  A husband/wife to both Brett and Olivia seem like more of a nuisance that anything else. Not everybody thrives in marriage.  

I have thought from the beginning that Olivia's desire to be married is more about appearances than her true desire to be married. I'm sure many of the nurses she works with are married or show up for work one day engaged and everyone is all happy and here's Olivia, not having any of that. It seems to me that she wants someone that won't cramp her style and whose wants are a mirror image of hers. Oh, but there's a catch: when she's tired of you, you need to go away. She'll travel with you and go to nice restaurants so she can show the world she got herself a man, but at home she'd probably treat him like a child.

One of the things that I distinctly remember that really bothered me was when they moved into the apartment and realized that there was a washer/dryer there. She said to Brett in such a bitch voice, something like, "You can't leave clothes in there or they will smell." Brett gave her a look and replied, "I know." I mean, this is a guy with his own house and short of it being cluttered, it did not look dirty. He doesn't come across as a slob and I'm sure he has a washer/dryer at home. She's just a joyless sourpuss. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by configdotsys
fixed an error

[Rae Spellman]

10 hours ago, princelina said:

Also, I remember her telling Cal when he visited after the honeymoon and asked about sex - that she felt they didn't need to get into that right now; they were married and it would happen eventually.  It sounded at the time very much like her decision and I wondered what Brett's thoughts on it were.

Early on Brett mentioned dating a lot of women and tending to have sex around date three. Olivia said she tends to talk longer than that. During the conversation with Dr. Viviana she mentioned that she told Brett that he could make a move. He said he hasn't because she didn't seem too enthusiastic about it. 

9 hours ago, Mollypup said:

It is interesting to me how much these "rocky marriages" are taken so seriously.  It is not a failure if the experiment does not work out.  But Olivia seems so desperate to make it work that she comes across as very whiny and off-putting. Does she actually believe that Brett and her were meant to be together?  Brett obviously doesn't think so.  

Well, people on message boards everywhere are judging her and. her rocky marriage! Seriously though, plenty of fledgling relationships end after a couple of months. Plenty of starter marriages end in divorce, too. Maybe Olivia is winy, off-putting, and desperate because even though she watched earlier seasons of the show she really expected to have better results on the show than she has going through her regular routine.

Maybe after the show, she and Henry should go on a date or two. Henry is willing to try new things. Surely he would pay his way, and possibly hers on a vacation or two. He's probably open to moving away from his tiny house. Neither of them seems to need much in the way of physical affection. They could just settle into a relationship where both get to have a spouse while also mostly just having a roommate who doesn't make them stray too much from familiar routines. 

[humbleopinion]

Brett would be laugh his ass off at Henry if he was so stupid to date Olivia.

Exactly what qualities has Miss Priss displayed that makes her desirable?

Other than her job, not much to admire....

 

[Rae Spellman]

Henry might not find Olivia desirable. But, Brett's laughter shouldn't impact anyone's dating choices. After all, none of them seem to like him. As far as Olivia's general desirability goes, plenty of people who are less attractive and more problematic than the MAFS cast have long term partners.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Rhiannon Hunter
brevity

[humbleopinion]

True, Brett is totally disliked by the rest of the cast. Even Bennett won’t have a beer with him.
Olivia is not as as  troublesome past MAFSers but she is doing herself no favors by nitpicking, demeaning, emasculating her spouse.
She’s accused him of giving good guy answers, being totally fake on camera and making Irritating faces at her.

Brett Delights in goading her, baiting her, pushing her buttons.
Their segments are awkward, wretched and Worst of all...bad teevee.

Brett is insufferable and Olivia is grim.

Quarantine will be the last straw...much to our relief and theirs.

 

 

[Blissfool]

Brett and I would be a perfect match. We'd spend the whole day out-sarcasming each other and laughing til our sides hurt.

And, yes, there are people that can't handle sarcasm. They get all butt-hurt and I've had HR meetings over it. (Just 1) 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Stinamaia]

On 9/25/2020 at 9:09 AM, Boo Boo said:

I think Brett knows no other way than being snarky and sarcastic.  The snark and sarcasm is a way of life for his family.  Maybe it's a defense mechanism they all learned growing up.  Maybe he needs someone who gives the snark right back. That sure isn't Olivia!

Maybe it’s my limited experience, but I don’t think being snarky and sarcastic to one another builds a healthy relationship.  Of course lighthearted teasing is a good thing, but but sarcasm has a destructive and passive aggressive quality to the humor.  It’s like the person who says something low key hurtful and then exclaims, just kidding!    I think speaking kindly and respectfully to one’s partner is the best. Naturally, this is an ideal, but gross departures require apologies and regret. 

[LuvMyShows]

 

On 9/24/2020 at 2:29 PM, Ilovepie said:

My sister and her husband are team Olivia though and dubbed him "The Douche". My aunt then proclaimed them "The Dour and The Douche"......A new buddy cop show coming to CBS spring 2021!

LOL!!!

11 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

I think the "choosing to love" and the "determination" type of comments is why some people stay in bad marriages forever.  

Amen.  First of all, there are plenty of couples who really love each other (and didn't even have to "choose" to love their partner), but for various reasons just cannot make it as a married couple. So even truly loving the other person doesn't guarantee a viable marriage.  So how much more challenging it would be to be trying to make yourself love someone else, and think that will make for a successful marriage. 

Pastor Cal says repeatedly that you shouldn't view it as "falling in love" and love has to be more than a feeling, because otherwise what will happen when the feeling goes away and you actually have to work.  But he is incomplete, because he is conflating two different situations -- 1) an established couple that has been in love but where one or both partners go through a period where they aren't feeling love  vs.   2) two people that aren't yet in a loving relationship.  He tries to use the logic that applies to the first situation - where relationships really do often ebb and flow in terms of how much love you feel for your partner, and many times it just has to be worked through (although eventually some will get to the point where it's time to call it quits), and he tries to apply that logic to the second situation, where there is no reason that a partner who doesn't feel love should be trying to make themselves feel it if they don't!  It's like he is valuing staying together above everything, including whether the two people are a good match or not, and what that means for either the "already in love" partner or the "not in love" partner.

I know this first-hand, and it also ties into my belief that there is a difference between loving someone and being in love.  I dated a wonderful guy, and I definitely loved him.  But I was not in love with him, and knew I never would be.  I could have had what would seem like a very nice life with a really great guy.  But he deserved to have someone who was over the moon about him, and I didn't deserve to live with the guilt of knowing that I would never be that person and that I was denying him that.  To me, there's a reason for the difference in wording...you can love your pet, your parents, your best friend, and it would be a genuine strong love.  But the ONLY situation we use the term "being in love" for, is a romantic partner.  That's because there IS a difference.  Loving a partner is a great first step, but being in love is what distinguishes the relationship from the others. 

If what Pastor Cal said was true, all any of us would need to do for a successful relationship is will ourselves more to choose love with our new partner, and then, presto!...happy couple and happy marriage!  He is confusing the valid concept of dealing with a time when love existed but seems to have ebbed versus trying to summon love when it has never been there before (and never will, nor should it). 

[Boo Boo]

47 minutes ago, Stinamaia said:

Maybe it’s my limited experience, but I don’t think being snarky and sarcastic to one another builds a healthy relationship.  Of course lighthearted teasing is a good thing, but but sarcasm has a destructive and passive aggressive quality to the humor.  It’s like the person who says something low key hurtful and then exclaims, just kidding!    I think speaking kindly and respectfully to one’s partner is the best. Naturally, this is an ideal, but gross departures require apologies and regret. 

Yes, I just think that Brett's humor would do better with someone who had a sense of humor.  Someone playful.

[Ilovepie]

@LuvMyShows Perfect analysis of the love/in love difference and why it doesn’t work here. 
I think Pastor Cal’s “love is a choice” spiel only works for established couples that are already committed. These people are still figuring out if they even like their spouse, let alone love them. And when “the experts” match people that clearly have different life goals it’s annoying to hear, well, just work harder. Um, no. Just walk away. If you can’t even agree on a major thing like whether to have kids you shouldn’t have ever been matched in the first place.

[Kira53]

9 hours ago, princelina said:

Yes!  She thinks she is fun because she likes doing things, but it's like she's doing them to show that she is fun.  When she came down off the rock wall there was no hug or high-five for Brett; ditto with the drink making - when they finished she just looked at her phone, put it away and announced that hers was best.  I didn't notice her rocking the trivia table either.  Did they have fun on their honeymoon?  I can't remember!

Olivia wouldn't have to give it up if she'd pay - she doesn't seem willing to do that!

Yes, Olivia confuses being fun with doing fun things. She really doesn't look like she's a fun person to be with. Her friends at the debate certainly didn't light look like they were fun either. I know that it is all what production wants us to see but boy did they give us a lot of frowns and lack of engagement.  When Olivia said that her go to in Karaoke was Lil Wayne it seemed like again something she does that people might say "oh she's fun" but she's not.  They don't show her laughing when engaging in any activity.

6 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

You are probably on to something here. He is saying the right things but in a completely insincere way. He is not actually “doing” anything the show can exploit. In essence, he’s playing this game and winning, but they are not going to let that happen.  Her “constant annoyance” reminds me of Meka. It’s really unpleasant to watch her frowny face talking him to death. She couldn’t even let it go when th

Oh, and I just have to mention the shark sipper he was drinking from - I found the juxtaposition of him drinking from that while she sat there stone faced drilling him about his commitment hilarious. 

At least the shark sipper was fun.  It was such a great counterpoint to her endless discussion.  

[Kira53]

3 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Brett would be laugh his ass off at Henry if he was so stupid to date Olivia.

Exactly what qualities has Miss Priss displayed that makes her desirable?

Other than her job, not much to admire....

 

Petite?

[Mollypup]

5 hours ago, configdotsys said:

I have thought from the beginning that Olivia's desire to be married is more about appearances than her true desire to be married. I'm sure many of the nurses she works with are married or show up for work one day engaged and everyone is all happy and here's Olivia, not having any of that. It seems to me that she wants someone that won't cramp her style and whose wants are a mirror image of hers. Oh, but there's a catch: when she's tired of you, you need to go away. She'll travel with you and go to nice restaurants so she can show the world she got herself a man, but at home she'd probably treat him like a child.

One of the things that I distinctly remember that really bothered me was when they moved into the apartment and realized that there was a washer/dryer there. She said to Brett in such a bitch voice, something like, "You can't leave clothes in there or they will smell." Brett gave her a look and replied, "I know." I mean, this is a guy with his own house and short of it being cluttered, it did not look dirty. He doesn't come across as a slob and I'm sure he has a washer/dryer at home. She's just a joyless sourpuss. 

I think that Olivia wants to be married but on her terms.  Her ideal partner is someone who earns a good income, is carefree with money, and doesn't want children.  That is a tall order for a partner. I do not think she is going to find too many committed men that fit into that category. Brett does not fit that profile and she should just leave him alone and stop berating him about it. 

[cinsays]

3 minutes ago, Mollypup said:

I think that Olivia wants to be married but on her terms.  Her ideal partner is someone who earns a good income, is carefree with money, and doesn't want children.  That is a tall order for a partner. I do not think she is going to find too many committed men that fit into that category. Brett does not fit that profile and she should just leave him alone and stop berating him about it. 

I don't know that finding someone with those qualifications should be that hard, maybe someone a few years older. I think her problem is going to be her non-sunny disposition more than anything.

[Mollypup]

39 minutes ago, Kira53 said:

Petite?

 

4 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Brett would be laugh his ass off at Henry if he was so stupid to date Olivia.

Exactly what qualities has Miss Priss displayed that makes her desirable?

Other than her job, not much to admire....

 

Olivia thinks that because she has a college degree and a high earning career, she is a good catch.  But she is very self-centered, which makes her undesirable. She cannot understand why Brett is not showing more appreciation of being matched with her.

1 minute ago, cinsays said:

I don't know that finding someone with those qualifications should be that hard, maybe someone a few years older. I think her problem is going to be her non-sunny disposition more than anything.

Perhaps someone who is older, and has kids from another marriage. 

[LennieBriscoe]

5 hours ago, Rhiannon Hunter said:

Early on Brett mentioned dating a lot of women and tending to have sex around date three. Olivia said she tends to talk longer than that. During the conversation with Dr. Viviana she mentioned that she told Brett that he could make a move. He said he hasn't because she didn't seem too enthusiastic about it. 

Well, people on message boards everywhere are judging her and. her rocky marriage! Seriously though, plenty of fledgling relationships end after a couple of months. Plenty of starter marriages end in divorce, too. Maybe Olivia is winy, off-putting, and desperate because even though she watched earlier seasons of the show she really expected to have better results on the show than she has going through her regular routine.

Maybe after the show, she and Henry should go on a date or two. Henry is willing to try new things. Surely he would pay his way, and possibly hers on a vacation or two. He's probably open to moving away from his tiny house. Neither of them seems to need much in the way of physical affection. They could just settle into a relationship where both get to have a spouse while also mostly just having a roommate who doesn't make them stray too much from familiar routines. 

Digression: What are (some of) these message boards? I'm always on the lookout for other places to opine! 😇

[LennieBriscoe]

37 minutes ago, Mollypup said:

I think that Olivia wants to be married but on her terms.  Her ideal partner is someone who earns a good income, is carefree with money, and doesn't want children.  That is a tall order for a partner. I do not think she is going to find too many committed men that fit into that category. Brett does not fit that profile and she should just leave him alone and stop berating him about it. 

Wanting to travel is not necessarily the equivalent of being "carefree with money." It is a choice of spending AND lifestyle. It might be what Olivia has carefully  budgeted for instead of having children. 

[Alexander Pope]

1 hour ago, Ilovepie said:

@LuvMyShows Perfect analysis of the love/in love difference and why it doesn’t work here. 
I think Pastor Cal’s “love is a choice” spiel only works for established couples that are already committed. These people are still figuring out if they even like their spouse, let alone love them. And when “the experts” match people that clearly have different life goals it’s annoying to hear, well, just work harder. Um, no. Just walk away. If you can’t even agree on a major thing like whether to have kids you shouldn’t have ever been matched in the first place.

I believe not agreeing on whether to have kids is grounds for annullment--certainly legal grounds for divorce.

[Jack Sampson]

3 hours ago, Mollypup said:

 

Olivia thinks that because she has a college degree and a high earning career, she is a good catch. 

Contrary to what movies say, men don't really want an earner.  For men, a woman's career is the last thing we look for.  Usually it's a negative.  Olivia's career is all she has.  I don't see anything else she has going on.  Even her search for fun experiences seems desperate, not genuine.

 

[TheMediumBopper]

20 hours ago, Mollypup said:

It is interesting to me how much these "rocky marriages" are taken so seriously.  It is not a failure if the experiment does not work out.  But Olivia seems so desperate to make it work that she comes across as very whiny and off-putting. Does she actually believe that Brett and her were meant to be together?  Brett obviously doesn't think so.  

Well, they are legally binding marriages (cough cough), and marriage is serious... or supposed to be, anyway. I suppose the stakes are raised even higher when millions of people are watching your marriage tanking on TV. It's amazing to me that anyone volunteers to participate in this at all.

[humbleopinion]

12 minutes ago, TheMediumBopper said:

Well, they are legally binding marriages (cough cough), and marriage is serious... or supposed to be, anyway. I suppose the stakes are raised even higher when millions  almost a hundred of people are watching your marriage tanking on TV. 

 Fixed it.

[ladyscorpio]

I felt bad for Henry after he opened up to Christina( and everyone else that was watching) and he looked kinda uncomfortable telling her honestly about how he feels about himself and she goes and uses it against him. What a bitch! You can tell he was caught off guard when she said that not having confidence is a deal breaker. He just barely opened up to her and she totally used it against him. Good luck him opening up to her again. No wonder she can't keep a guy. Henry should've done the same thing to her when she opened up about her having a.d.d and needing to take medicine. How would she feel if he treated her that way?? I agree with people that think he might be a virgin. I thought that too. She ruined any chance of him ever feeling comfortable of opening up to her again. She is so rude. She looked like a shiny parrot when she was standing there staring at him asking why he's not confident. She said she did get everything in him that she was asking for but she just now realizes that she wants someone who's confident. Clearly none of the other guys she was with haven't been working out. She ruined any chance of their marriage trying to turn into anything positive.  I at first thought Bennett was really weird but seeing more of him and how he was when he was talking to Henry I really am liking him more now. He does seem intelligent and like he would be a good friend. I love Amani and Woody, they are so cute together.  They are my favorite couple. With Olivia and Brett, I didn't think he was being rude to her at the bar and after when they were talking. When she told him she wanted them to talk to someone else like a counselor he said sure right away and did not sound like he didn't mean it. Everything he would say to her she was taking it the wrong way. I thought he would be the worst out of all the guys because how he was acting at the bachelor party but now he doesn't seem as bad as she is making it out to be. Unless he's doing and saying things we don't see when they aren't filming. I know that once she found out he made less money than her, her whole attitude changed. She was disappointed about that part 100%. Nothing wrong with that though. I wonder if she told the experts at the beginning when they ask about what they want in a partner and deal breakers if she told them she wants someone that makes more money than she does or wants someone wealthy. The only ones I can see staying together are Amani/Woody and Amelia/ Bennett. I don't like how Karen has to make Miles work so hard to get anything from her like a smile or a compliment. Reminds me of Deonna and Greg. 

[LuvMyShows]

 

On 9/24/2020 at 10:31 AM, JapMo said:

I see things about him that I can understand why he's not married: 

1. Very very blunt...it's off-putting (Olivia expresses concerns and he says 'you're very insecure') 

The part in bold as it unfolded on the show was very, very, very important and illustrative of the very deliberate condescending manipulation that Brett employs to shift the focus/blame away from him when he does not have the upper hand, whether it's from being caught off-guard, feeling insecure, faced with something he wishes to avoid discussing, etc.  IIRC, Olivia was expressing concerns and asked him if he wanted to be married to her.  He started his answer by saying something about how of course he does, and that he takes it seriously or he wouldn't have signed up for...and then he stopped mid-sentence, and moved to the personal attack of accusing her of being insecure.  I believe that he took that approach because he knew that if he had finished the thought he had started expressing, Olivia would see through it and it would actually prove HER point that his compliments are self-serving.  This is because his honest answer, which is what he started with before he stopped himself, was all about his sincerity about wanting to be married (hence the part about why he signed up for the show, which I actually think may be true) and NONE about actually wanting to be married to Olivia.  I think he knows that Olivia has already figured that out, and so he had to stop himself from confirming that with what he was saying, and switch to a personal attack to deflect.  

(For the record, I'm not wild about either Brett or Olivia, but I do think that Olivia's BS radar is functioning properly, as opposed to ChristinA's, which apparently has led her astray in the past and really needs a good recalibration!)

Edited September 27, 2020 by LuvMyShows

[Stella Rose]

Henry is my type of guy.  Yes he is quiet and comes off a bit shy and awkward.   To me that is perfect.  Pair me with a loud, boisterous (Bret type) and I would go bugshit.     I would love a Henry who wants nothing more than someone to be nice to him, do low-key things with, maybe lay in bed and read together or make a nice dinner.  They just paired him with the wrong match.  Christina comes of as stuck up,  loud, obnoxious,  and perfectly happy to be the jet-setting party girl who lives way beyond her means.

For all those who don't like Henry, he is perfect for the slightly introverted nerdy, bookish gal.

That said I also admit if I were  years younger, I just may be staking Bennet and disappearing Amelia in her compost bin.   I kid, I kid.  I wish these two nothing but the best.   A year from now, I can see Henry happy and settled (a'la Onsie-Big-Spoon-Neil) from a few seasons ago with a nice, kind, polite, civilized LADY.

If I could have crawled through the TV,  I would have done so when Henry opened up about his insecurities and it seemed (never know with editing, but I think she) completely and hatefully shot him down.

One well placed hug or even a hand on his leg or shoulder and a "I think you are gorgeous just the way you are"  or "I am so sorry you went through that, it is tough being a kid"  or any other genuine kind comment would have opened him up like a good book.  She is just a nasty piece of work.   Send her back up to 'fly the friendly skies' with her very friendly married coworkers.    You don't deserve flowers you nasty, mean, CRUEL Twat.

 

 

[LennieBriscoe]

7 hours ago, Alexander Pope said:

I believe not agreeing on whether to have kids is grounds for annullment--certainly legal grounds for divorce.

In the Roman Catholic Church one annulment allowance is if one had misrepresented (lied) prior to the wedding about agreeing to procreate ("openness to offspring")---which discussion between betrotheds, of course, was impossible for those on MAFS. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_nullity

I  don't know about the pertinent Civil Law per state. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by LennieBriscoe

[LennieBriscoe]

1 hour ago, Stella Rose said:

Henry is my type of guy.  Yes he is quiet and comes off a bit shy and awkward.   To me that is perfect.  Pair me with a loud, boisterous (Bret type) and I would go bugshit.     I would love a Henry who wants nothing more than someone to be nice to him, do low-key things with, maybe lay in bed and read together or make a nice dinner.  They just paired him with the wrong match.  Christina comes of as stuck up,  loud, obnoxious,  and perfectly happy to be the jet-setting party girl who lives way beyond her means.

For all those who don't like Henry, he is perfect for the slightly introverted nerdy, bookish gal.

That said I also admit if I were  years younger, I just may be staking Bennet and disappearing Amelia in her compost bin.   I kid, I kid.  I wish these two nothing but the best.   A year from now, I can see Henry happy and settled (a'la Onsie-Big-Spoon-Neil) from a few seasons ago with a nice, kind, polite, civilized LADY.

If I could have crawled through the TV,  I would have done so when Henry opened up about his insecurities and it seemed (never know with editing, but I think she) completely and hatefully shot him down.

One well placed hug or even a hand on his leg or shoulder and a "I think you are gorgeous just the way you are"  or "I am so sorry you went through that, it is tough being a kid"  or any other genuine kind comment would have opened him up like a good book.  She is just a nasty piece of work.   Send her back up to 'fly the friendly skies' with her very friendly married coworkers.    You don't deserve flowers you nasty, mean, CRUEL Twat.

 

 

I'm not about to re-watch any episode, but is ChristinA "loud"? (Or Brett, for that matter?) 

Henry certainly doesn't mind his entourage of loud, obnoxious, and drunk Mean Girls. 

Does ChristinA "live...beyond her means"? Finances seem to me to be the Official Marital Discord Theme not with her and Henry but with Olivia and Brett.

Maybe ChristinA simply wasn't expecting a spouse who needs therapy, and she doesn't have, like many people don't, the wherewithal or the inclination to shepherd Henry along. After all, these ten are all individuals who are done with waiting, by definition impatient for marriage, and who sought their best match via alleged experts.

Edited September 27, 2020 by LennieBriscoe

[qtpye]

7 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

Contrary to what movies say, men don't really want an earner.  For men, a woman's career is the last thing we look for.  Usually it's a negative.  Olivia's career is all she has.  I don't see anything else she has going on.  Even her search for fun experiences seems desperate, not genuine.

 

This is something that is hard for women to understand. I have often mentioned that my male law/medical school classmates had tons of women after them and it was just the opposite for us ladies. 

Most of us married guys that out earned by a lot so our jobs were really not an issue or did not marry at all.

I think Amelia and Bennett will be fine and things might be changing for younger generations but it was just not the norm when I was dating (which was not that long ago).

 

 

[LennieBriscoe]

10 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

Contrary to what movies say, men don't really want an earner.  For men, a woman's career is the last thing we look for.  Usually it's a negative.  Olivia's career is all she has.  I don't see anything else she has going on.  Even her search for fun experiences seems desperate, not genuine.

 

"[M]en don't really want an earner"? "Usually it's a negative"?

Is there a Wayback Machine to pre-World War II America that I haven't been told about?!

In my more than 70 years, 30 of which were spent teaching high school seniors, I don't think I ever met one student, one parent, or one colleague who shared the above quoted opinions. I never met a male college professor whose wife didn't also have a career. 

Now, admittedly, I have been out of the education scene for quite a while, but the young male relatives of mine and of friends married women with careers.

Frankly, I can't imagine a young man's wanting to do otherwise in the 21st Century. 

[LennieBriscoe]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

This is something that is hard for women to understand. I have often mentioned that my male law/medical school classmates had tons of women after them and it was just the opposite for us ladies. 

Most of us married guys that out earned by a lot so our jobs were really not an issue or did not marry at all.

I think Amelia and Bennett will be fine and things might be changing for younger generations but it was just not the norm when I was dating (which was not that long ago).

 

 

American men don't care to marry female doctors or female lawyers because the women's careers and attendant earnings might be "an issue"?! 

I hadn't heretofore realised that American men's (apparently fragile) egos extended to cutting off their (financial) nose to spite their (lifestyle) face! 

As my high school Spanish teacher used to say in mock sympathy, "¡Pobrecitos!"

[Lindz]

AWWWW!! BRETT!! That smile description was so SWEET! I hope he meant it!! I understand Olivia questioning it since he hadn't said it to her, so how about she ASK HIM WHY HE HADN'T SAID IT TO HER???? GOSH!! These people!! ALWAYS complicating the SIMPLEST THINGS!! 😂😂 Some theories:
1. Totally fake
2. He doesn't like her enough to share that.
3. He really likes her & thinks she doesn't like him as much, so he didn't.
Perhaps they're not close/comfortable enough to share those things. It's weird, but understandable. That's how lots of people are. Her confronting him about it? That's unreasonable. Asking if he wants to be married? RIDICULOUS! NOBODY wants that negative energy! She's asking the wrong questions with the wrong energy. All that stuff to say his stupid sarcasm is ANNOYING AS HELL & a HUGE TURN-OFF!! Apparently, her annoyed looks aren't enough to inspire him to stop. The miscommunication is problematic.

[Lindz]

BAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!! Explored each other sexually?!?!! When he's scared to touch her?? Aw man! That's HILARIOUS!! OBVIOUSLY NOT!! 😂😂 Poor Brett. His stupid, inappropriately timed sarcasm is a MAJOR turn off. She seems so uncomfortable. WHY is he trying to be touchy with his stranger wife? What's behind that?

[Lisa418722]

11 hours ago, Stella Rose said:

Henry is my type of guy.  Yes he is quiet and comes off a bit shy and awkward.   To me that is perfect.  Pair me with a loud, boisterous (Bret type) and I would go bugshit.     I would love a Henry who wants nothing more than someone to be nice to him, do low-key things with, maybe lay in bed and read together or make a nice dinner.  They just paired him with the wrong match.  Christina comes of as stuck up,  loud, obnoxious,  and perfectly happy to be the jet-setting party girl who lives way beyond her means.

For all those who don't like Henry, he is perfect for the slightly introverted nerdy, bookish gal.

That said I also admit if I were  years younger, I just may be staking Bennet and disappearing Amelia in her compost bin.   I kid, I kid.  I wish these two nothing but the best.   A year from now, I can see Henry happy and settled (a'la Onsie-Big-Spoon-Neil) from a few seasons ago with a nice, kind, polite, civilized LADY.

If I could have crawled through the TV,  I would have done so when Henry opened up about his insecurities and it seemed (never know with editing, but I think she) completely and hatefully shot him down.

One well placed hug or even a hand on his leg or shoulder and a "I think you are gorgeous just the way you are"  or "I am so sorry you went through that, it is tough being a kid"  or any other genuine kind comment would have opened him up like a good book.  She is just a nasty piece of work.   Send her back up to 'fly the friendly skies' with her very friendly married coworkers.    You don't deserve flowers you nasty, mean, CRUEL Twat.

I agree.  I'm an introvert myself. I wonder if Henry is the kind that is more outgoing (I don't want to say extroverted) when he is doing something with someone he is comfortable with.   I think ChristinA  is just too overpowering and demanding.  I need to get comfortable in a situation and then I am more outgoing myself.  I think Henry is the same way.   Before this week I had a little sympathy for her because the experts completely screwed up this match.  But after the way she slammed Henry about confidence, I lost any sympathy for ChristinA I might have had.  

[Lindz]

Brett is soooooooo DEFENSIVE about his damn house!! GET OVER IT!! So they're hung up on his house & her not wanting kids? So, they're distantly coasting through to decision day? While painfully miscommunicating along the way. 😂

[Blissfool]

1 hour ago, Lindz said:

Brett is soooooooo DEFENSIVE about his damn house!! GET OVER IT!! 

Its just that Olivia keeps bringing it up like its a bad thing. 

[humbleopinion]

5 minutes ago, Blissfool said:

Its just that Olivia keeps bringing it up like its a bad thing. 

She has never liked his house because it is in an unfashionable part of NO, is not decorated to her snooty standards and not worthy to house her hoity toity antiques, too far from her job to commute because she has the HARDEST MOST EXHAUSTING job in the world.

Hope the clinic staff she works with with kids, living further out and more difficult commuter and family situations are rolling their eyes at her whining and martyrdom...

She was practically held her nose with pinched fingers as she toured his home because it had an over flowing trash can of cardboard boxes and paper and was cluttered with his stuff.

She disregarded Brett's obvious pride in ownership by looking at the camera with a "can you believe this dump" glance as he showed her and production around.... how hurtful when he sees the segment later on.

At least Danielle respected Bobby enough to give him credit for owning a home, was willing to commute 90 minutes to and from Dallas during the filmimg and kept her pie hole shut until after Decision Day and a bun in the oven before she lowered the boom and wanted a bigger, newer home in a better school district.

[Jack Sampson]

6 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

She has never liked his house because it is in an unfashionable part of NO...

Where is his house? 

Is it just unfashionable or a legit bad neighborhood?

[humbleopinion]

Brett acknowledged that Olivia "rents" in a more desirable part of town but he could not afford a home in her neck of the woods.

[Kira53]

16 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

Contrary to what movies say, men don't really want an earner.  For men, a woman's career is the last thing we look for.  Usually it's a negative.  Olivia's career is all she has.  I don't see anything else she has going on.  Even her search for fun experiences seems desperate, not genuine.

This is my experience personally and when I look out in the world and see so many high earning women that are not in committed relationships. Sometimes they're actually in relationships where the man is a Socio path and targeted them so that he could financially exploit the high earning woman. Men and women look for different things women, just like Olivia is looking for a high earning man; where as men are looking for a "looker".

8 hours ago, qtpye said:

This is something that is hard for women to understand. I have often mentioned that my male law/medical school classmates had tons of women after them and it was just the opposite for us ladies. 

Most of us married guys that out earned by a lot so our jobs were really not an issue or did not marry at all.

I think Amelia and Bennett will be fine and things might be changing for younger generations but it was just not the norm when I was dating (which was not that long ago).

 

5 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

"[M]en don't really want an earner"? "Usually it's a negative"?

Is there a Wayback Machine to pre-World War II America that I haven't been told about?!

In my more than 70 years, 30 of which were spent teaching high school seniors, I don't think I ever met one student, one parent, or one colleague who shared the above quoted opinions. I never met a male college professor whose wife didn't also have a career. 

Now, admittedly, I have been out of the education scene for quite a while, but the young male relatives of mine and of friends married women with careers.

Frankly, I can't imagine a young man's wanting to do otherwise in the 21st Century. 

Come on, no one actually says that. These aren't always conscious bias.  See who they pick as marriage partners. Women having "careers" is very different than men seeking out women lawyers and doctors the same way women seek out male lawyers and doctors.  

[pdlinda]

15 hours ago, Stella Rose said:

Christina comes of as stuck up,  loud, obnoxious,  and perfectly happy to be the jet-setting party girl who lives way beyond her means.

I am not now, nor have I ever been clear on what basis christina  would have grounds to be "stuck up" or a "jet-setting party girl".  As far as I can see, she is a sloppy, marginally "attractive" woman with a questionable status in her job that before the show was sleeping in her car.  She presents as unkempt and a style pariah, as well.  Her intellect/personality also have much to be desired.  Sorry but Henry definitely deserved better.

 

[humbleopinion]

21 minutes ago, pdlinda said:

I am not now, nor have I ever been clear on what basis christina  would have grounds to be "stuck up" or a "jet-setting party girl".  Sorry but Henry definitely deserved better.

The audience got that impression when she was waxing poetic about flying First Class to locales exotica when explaining to "never been out of the country" Henry who has only traveled lowly Economy to visit his brother in Virginia...

Her generosity of spirit to consent to fly with the rest of the cast to Cancun instead of demanding a first class seat was breath taking....what a humanitarian....🙄

[qtpye]

8 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

"[M]en don't really want an earner"? "Usually it's a negative"?

Is there a Wayback Machine to pre-World War II America that I haven't been told about?!

In my more than 70 years, 30 of which were spent teaching high school seniors, I don't think I ever met one student, one parent, or one colleague who shared the above quoted opinions. I never met a male college professor whose wife didn't also have a career. 

Now, admittedly, I have been out of the education scene for quite a while, but the young male relatives of mine and of friends married women with careers.

Frankly, I can't imagine a young man's wanting to do otherwise in the 21st Century. 

 

8 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

American men don't care to marry female doctors or female lawyers because the women's careers and attendant earnings might be "an issue"?! 

I hadn't heretofore realised that American men's (apparently fragile) egos extended to cutting off their (financial) nose to spite their (lifestyle) face! 

As my high school Spanish teacher used to say in mock sympathy, "¡Pobrecitos!"

There is a whole movement on exactly men wanting it to be like the 1950's called MGTOW or the Red Pill society. Most of my male relatives also married very educated and accomplished women but, then again they were pretty educated and accomplished themselves and did not have these types of issues.

Edited September 27, 2020 by qtpye

[LennieBriscoe]

1 hour ago, Kira53 said:

This is my experience personally and when I look out in the world and see so many high earning women that are not in committed relationships. Sometimes they're actually in relationships where the man is a Socio path and targeted them so that he could financially exploit the high earning woman. Men and women look for different things women, just like Olivia is looking for a high earning man; where as men are looking for a "looker".

 

Come on, no one actually says that. These aren't always conscious bias.  See who they pick as marriage partners. Women having "careers" is very different than men seeking out women lawyers and doctors the same way women seek out male lawyers and doctors.  

Women often have careers, not "careers," the quotation marks' implying fake or something less than. 

If the POINT is that men in general, in any job, career, or profession, are not as inclined, indoctrinated, or brought up to look for a doctor or lawyer wife in terms of offering them and any future children financial security, as it is suggested here that women do so look for a doctor or lawyer  husband (I don't infer that similar interests are the focus here)----well, is that good or bad? Or neither? 

 

[qtpye]

14 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Women often have careers, not "careers," the quotation marks' implying fake or something less than. 

If the POINT is that men in general, in any job, career, or profession, are not as inclined, indoctrinated, or brought up to look for a doctor or lawyer wife in terms of offering them and any future children financial security, as it is suggested here that women do so look for a doctor or lawyer  husband (I don't infer that similar interests are the focus here)----well, is that good or bad? Or neither? 

 

 

While women who win the Academy Award for Best Actress are celebrated for reaching a pinnacle of career achievement, several of them also share another distinction – divorce. Known as the “Oscar Curse,” Best Actress award recipients are more likely to file for divorce than are their nominated counterparts or Best Actor winners. Sandra Bullock, Julie Andrews, Joan Crawford, Bette Davis, Halle Berry, Emma Thompson, and Kate Winslet all share this experience. Patterns like this led us to ask whether womens’ high status careers affect marital stability, and if so, why. Our research on the matter was recently published in the journal Organization Science.

While men continue to occupy the upper echelons of most organizations, women have made considerable progress in acquiring high status roles in organizations. According to U.S. Department of Labor Data, women now hold at least 50% of management and professional positions, outnumbering males in roles such as financial managers, accountants, and medical and health services managers. These workplace changes have affected household roles as well: whereas U.S. women were the primary breadwinners in 18% of marriages in 1987, that number rose to 29% in dual-income marriages by 2014.

Despite these organizational and economic changes, societal norms still suggest that in heterosexual marriages, husbands “should” hold higher job status relative to their wives. When this norm is violated, and wives hold the higher status job, negative consequences can follow: Women are disparagingly referred to as having “married down,” are more likely to be targets of husbands’ aggression, and the risk for divorce increases. With these findings in mind, we wanted to examine whether and how womens’ high status jobs might impact the quality of their marriages and whether wives’ perceptions of, and feelings about, their husbands’ job status led to marital instability.

Bringing this closer to home, when wives believe that the statuses they worked so hard to achieve at work are at risk because of their husbands’ lower job status, they could experience a different kind of status spillover, which would include feeling embarrassed by or resentful of their spouses’ lower job status, and fearing that their status could be compromised by that of their husbands.

This is from the Harvard Business Review and kind of describes what is happening with Brett and Olivia.

This will not be a problem with Bennett and Amelia because they are both very clear about what they expect in the marriage and seem to be happy with their chosen roles.

Edited September 27, 2020 by qtpye

[pdlinda]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

The audience got that impression when she was waxing poetic about flying First Class to locales exotica when explaining to "never been out of the country" Henry who has only traveled lowly Economy to visit his brother in Virginia...

Her generosity of spirit to consent to fly with the rest of the cast to Cancun instead of demanding a first class seat was breath taking....what a humanitarian....🙄

You are SO RIGHT!  It seems like eons ago that  Christina had that "persona" !  Since then, things have taken another turn.  I think it started when she revealed she had no local residence and was sleeping in her car cautiously evading where she actually had a residence.  I concluded that perhaps she works for a marginal economy-type airline because I always see airline crews checking in behind me at various hotels I've stayed at where there was a layover from their home hub.  Whether she actually was employed at this time also occurred to me. Then, there was the matter of her demeanor, personality, style of dress and general unkempt appearance that added to the conclusion that all her "pretention" was exactly that....a facade.

In other words, she comes across as a PHONY!

[princelina]

On 9/26/2020 at 9:44 AM, configdotsys said:

I have thought from the beginning that Olivia's desire to be married is more about appearances than her true desire to be married. I'm sure many of the nurses she works with are married or show up for work one day engaged and everyone is all happy and here's Olivia, not having any of that. It seems to me that she wants someone that won't cramp her style and whose wants are a mirror image of hers. Oh, but there's a catch: when she's tired of you, you need to go away. She'll travel with you and go to nice restaurants so she can show the world she got herself a man, but at home she'd probably treat him like a child.

She said from the beginning that she was tired of being the only one without a "plus one".  She wants someone to bring with to her activities so she's not the only one without a date.

19 hours ago, ladyscorpio said:

I felt bad for Henry after he opened up to Christina( and everyone else that was watching) and he looked kinda uncomfortable telling her honestly about how he feels about himself and she goes and uses it against him. What a bitch! You can tell he was caught off guard when she said that not having confidence is a deal breaker. He just barely opened up to her and she totally used it against him. Good luck him opening up to her again. No wonder she can't keep a guy. Henry should've done the same thing to her when she opened up about her having a.d.d and needing to take medicine. How would she feel if he treated her that way?? I agree with people that think he might be a virgin. I thought that too. She ruined any chance of him ever feeling comfortable of opening up to her again. She is so rude. 

Didn't he use that word "rude" in his TH? (After the blindfold exercise). That word keeps coming up with him.  Also - I don't know if he's a virgin or not, but Mr P's stepfather makes Henry look like the life of the party, and yet has managed to get himself married twice 😄 

I don't believe Christina lived out of her car.  IMO she just didn't want to go to her place with Henry (or the cameras?). 

[LennieBriscoe]

I think that entire Harvard Business Review article is worth reading.

https://hbr.org/2017/05/does-a-womans-high-status-career-hurt-her-marriage-not-if-her-husband-does-the-laundry

[JapMo]

On 9/26/2020 at 11:52 AM, Blissfool said:

Brett and I would be a perfect match. We'd spend the whole day out-sarcasming each other and laughing til our sides hurt.

And, yes, there are people that can't handle sarcasm. They get all butt-hurt and I've had HR meetings over it. (Just 1) 🤣🤣🤣🤣

LOL, I'm sarcastic AND worked in HR 20 plus years.  There are a lot of women who could handle Brett's sarcasm and throw it right back at him.  

[Lindz]

I liked Dr. Viviana's visits! There were some useful points!