S10.E13: There's No Place Like Rome

[Kiki777]

My favorite local restaurant uses sushi-grade salmon so you can choose how you want it cooked (I love medium-rare so it’s barely cooked but still warm throughout).   Mm now I want some.  Thank goodness for curbside.

Kyle definitely does seem like the type to like Buca da Peppo or whatever it’s called.  We don’t have those in my area but I imagine it’s like Olive Garden or something?  it’s such a shame not to go to the many authentic Italian places in the area.

ok I do come across as a food snob but I’m not really.  I’m obsessed with the breakfast wraps at Panera, and the chicken nuggets at Wendy’s ☺️

[Dutchgirl]

9 hours ago, suomi said:

I don't presume exploitation in sexual transactions, so the point in your original statement eluded me. Goodbye.

Exchanging sex for survival (money=food + housing) is the very definition of exploitation.

[Dutchgirl]

1 hour ago, Duke2801 said:

Seeking out—and paying for—a happy ending does not equate to “a history of exploiting people sexually”. 

Confused. Are you taking exception to the term "exploitation" to describe the act of helping someone survive (ie giving money for food and shelter) in exchange for sexual encounters, or are you concerned that doing this just once gives you a "history" of doing this?

If you pay someone for a sexual encounter, you are exploiting their vulnerabilities for your own purpose. 

If you exploit just one person, you have a history of exploitation. 

[Duke2801]

1 hour ago, Dutchgirl said:

Confused. Are you taking exception to the term "exploitation" to describe the act of helping someone survive (ie giving money for food and shelter) in exchange for sexual encounters, or are you concerned that doing this just once gives you a "history" of doing this?

If you pay someone for a sexual encounter, you are exploiting their vulnerabilities for your own purpose. 

If you exploit just one person, you have a history of exploitation. 

I’m refuting your use of the the term exploitation to describe what Denise and Aaron did. But this isn’t really related to the episode at hand, and it’s most certainly not the appropriate place to debate it. So I’m ending my part in this discussion here and now. 

[Jel]

18 hours ago, Anne Thrax said:

I was so getting LVP vibes from Kyle in that scene -- as if Kyle is in the former LVP position and Dorit is in the former Kyle position.  The "I love you" thing is what LVP always used to draw Kyle back in for more torture.

Torture? And more torture! Jeepers, did I miss an episode?

[Dutchgirl]

1 hour ago, Duke2801 said:

I’m refuting your use of the the term exploitation to describe what Denise and Aaron did. But this isn’t really related to the episode at hand, and it’s most certainly not the appropriate place to debate it. So I’m ending my part in this discussion here and now. 

You disagreed, not refuted, and if it's on the show, this forum is precisely the place to discuss it.  🙂

 

[Choco9]

8 hours ago, GonnahearmeRoar said:

#2 is a true statement - multiple partners, unprotected sex...std’s.  Stay woke and protected😀

Yea, I get that (even through the smugness).  But Kyle was smirking and clearly making a joke about him having HIV.  Still cute?  Making fun of the fact that someone has HIV?

[Duke2801]

1 hour ago, Dutchgirl said:

You disagreed, not refuted, and if it's on the show, this forum is precisely the place to discuss it.  🙂

 

 

refute: to deny or contradict a statement or accusation.
 

I *refuted* your statement. So yes, I used the correct word. 

And no, this is not the place to debate what does—and does not—define the exploitation of sex workers. 

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Duke2801

[CharlizeCat]

5 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

Kyle definitely does seem like the type to like Buca da Peppo or whatever it’s called.  We don’t have those in my area but I imagine it’s like Olive Garden or something?  it’s such a shame not to go to the many authentic Italian places in the area.

 

There is a BdB in my city. I was only there one time and that was enough. It is similar to Olive Garden in that it serves "Amer-alian" type cuisine like fettuccine Alfredo, lasagna, spaghetti and meatballs, etc. The food is served family-style in absolutely gigantic portions. It found it bleh ... Now, it's mainly known as a "cool" place where high schoolers go after  homecoming and prom. 

I am always amazed (and embarrassed) when the howives are travelling and pearl-clutch at the "exotic" menu. SQUID?? The horror. Besides having an unadventurous palate, I am guessing that they are constantly on a diet, thus the orders or plain salmon. Well done! KMN. And who could enjoy their meal under the scrutiny of Teddi who is probably mentally calculating everybody's caloric intake and how much exercise they need in order to burn it off?  Moreso, they don't need any more dressing room meltdowns is some gaudy overprice designer dud doesn't fit.

Anyway, I would think that people who had the good fortune to experience the finer things in live on a regular basis would be a little more sophisticated. 

I don't care either way about Denise and Brandi. I think they both are lying about certain aspects of their encounter and off-camera relationship. They seemed pretty chummy in that scene from last year when they met for a drink.

Since Denise joined the show, she has moved from cameos to full-time front-burner status on "The Bold and the Beautiful." That makes me wonder if her abrupt change in personality has something to do with that as well as the rapid back-pedal about her "friendship" with Brandi. Brandi is poison and the stench rubs off on everybody she touches.

Hmmm ... Jerry O'Donnell's wife might be a nice additional (replacement) on the show ...

 

 

[Door County Cherry]

8 hours ago, film noire said:

Me, neither, Ms Blue Jay.  To fly to Italy and eat sushi instead of the local  food seems demented to me.   

I think most food is "local" food as each country tends to have an interpretation of it or is at least limited by what is available or in season locally. 

For instance, my favorite meal in Austria wasn't the Austrian food, it was from the Italian restaurant we went to.  Heck, the pasta we got there was better than the pasta we got in Italy.  I don't see anything wrong with trying sushi in another country to get the Italian-Japanese version of food rather than the Japanese-American version. 

 

[Dutchgirl]

55 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

refute: to deny or contradict a statement or accusation.

I *refuted* your statement. So yes, I used the correct word. 
And no, this is not the place to debate what does—and does not—define the exploitation of sex workers. 

 

lol To refute is to disprove, you didn't disprove anything. What you did was start a debate on sexual exploitation that you tried to quickly scramble out of lol

I'm happy to discuss whatever topics are covered on the show.  Denise has discussed her sexual history and it's come back to bite her, so this is very front and center this season. :)

 

 

[Aim123]

5 hours ago, Dutchgirl said:

If you pay someone for a sexual encounter, you are exploiting their vulnerabilities for your own purpose. 

This is assuming they are vulnerable and doing it to survive. What if it is just a sex-positive person who enjoys what they do, and have decided they want to do it for a living? Not that this is common, but it is a possibility. Not all sex workers are slaves.

[Jel]

Do we know for sure it was a woman who provided said service? Does it change anything if it wasn't?

[The Ringo Kidd]

I feel that the Real Housewives are sexually exploiting me.

Every time I watch it I am always shouting “Fuck” at the TV.

[Dutchgirl]

3 minutes ago, Jel said:

Do we know for sure it was a woman who provided said service? Does it change anything if it wasn't?

{shrug} Denise just said the woman Aaron had was older. Man/woman/trans, who cares. Doesn't change my opinion anyway. 

[suomi]

8 minutes ago, Dutchgirl said:

lol To refute is to disprove, you didn't disprove anything. What you did was start a debate on sexual exploitation that you tried to quickly scramble out of 

The "debate" started when you introduced the term  exploitation. While it is true that coercion does exist in the industry, many sex workers enjoy what they do and are satisfied with what they receive in compensation - whether that is cash and other amenities or... power.

My body, my choice.

More often than is recognized or acknowledged, the sex seller is exploiting the need(s) of the sex buyer.

I find your blanket statement and stance that exploitation is the underlying factor in every encounter in the sex industry to be uninformed, sexist and patriarchal. 

Bringing it back to Denise, which is where you started, this is a person who added a place setting to her dining table when she learned that a prostitute hired by her ex was cooling her heels in the driveway on Thanksgiving. 

I also noticed that you made reference to Denise and Brandi being bi and then said [paraphrasing] it was OK. That was big of you. 

[gingerella]

12 minutes ago, suomi said:

The "debate" started when you introduced the term  exploitation. While it is true that coercion does exist in the industry, many sex workers enjoy what they do and are satisfied with what they receive in compensation - whether that is cash and other amenities or... power.

@suomi, I normally agree with your posts but I feel you're a bit off the mark with this one. I would say in very few places are commercial sex workers happy to be in that profession. Perhaps in Holland where there is a different type of attitude towards sex workers, but very few women or men here in the US, where Denise lives and where she procured her happy ended masseuse, are sex workers because they enjoy it. To say that coercion exists but many enjoy what they do is really demeaning to those who feel they have no other choice. Quite frankly, I'm very surprised that some here don't get that.

ETA: I've worked with commercial sex workers and non-commercial sex workers throughout Africa and Asia and trust me when I say none of them dreamed of being sex workers when they were children growing up. And none of them would continue working the sex trade if they had another viable option that made them the same money. And the world is filled with far more of those cases then the very few people living in developed countries who might have chosen to be in the sex industry. The latter fit on the head of a pin, globally speaking, which is why this shouldn't be spoken about in terms that give the impression that they're the majority, because they are definitely not.

Edited August 9, 2020 by gingerella

[chenoa333]

On 8/6/2020 at 8:36 PM, TattleTeeny said:

Fair enough. If it was me (and if I still ate sushi -- or cheese, meat, eggs, whatever), I'd order all of it, haha!

 

Absolutely! I would have to be shipped back to the USA on a cargo ship! 

[The Ringo Kidd]

I would  have a traditional Italian dinner the way Grandma cooked back in day in Brooklyn. Which means a soup, then a salad, some pasta and then the main course which was usually pork or veal or chicken.

Of course none of these woman eat anyway so it is all a waste.

Edited August 9, 2020 by The Ringo Kidd

[Aim123]

2 hours ago, Dutchgirl said:

..but the sex trade has nothing to do with offering beautiful, freeing experiences for its workers,

Not typically no, but we can't say for sure-- which is why it can't be said as a fact.

[Baltimore Betty]

3 hours ago, chenoa333 said:

Absolutely! I would have to be shipped back to the USA on a cargo ship! 

Like I said in a previous post, I always diet prior to a trip because I am all about the food in Italy!

[GonnahearmeRoar]

9 hours ago, Choco9 said:

Yea, I get that (even through the smugness).  But Kyle was smirking and clearly making a joke about him having HIV.  Still cute?  Making fun of the fact that someone has HIV?

Oh my! Stating “clearly making a joke” or “it was obvious” does NOT conclude Kyle was referring to his HIV. Sorry the truth does NOT fit your narrative.  Keep to the facts. 

[Choco9]

9 hours ago, GonnahearmeRoar said:

Oh my! Stating “clearly making a joke” or “it was obvious” does NOT conclude Kyle was referring to his HIV. Sorry the truth does NOT fit your narrative.  Keep to the facts. 

Did you watch the talking head when she did it?  She was completely referencing his disease and making a joke.  It slid under the Radar because we as the audience were geared to only pay attention to Puppy Gate that season.  I have no narrative and it’s pretty strange that you think you know the “truth” of her comment if you didn’t even view or remember it.  Also, this is a board for discussion of a reality show, please refrain from the zealous “Stick to the facts” direction - I’ll post what I want about the show, thanks.

[Nicmar]

On 8/6/2020 at 11:46 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

There is no such thing as haute couture not fitting Sutton, she has enough money to get any designer to tailor it to her.  That said, I have stood in a dressing room at Banana Republic hating me, hating the pants that look so bad on me and hating the tiny, young salesgirl that "helped me," so I get Sutton's frustration but she can get the clothes to fit her. 

Sutton should cry about the suburban housewife in Baltimore that cannot afford Dolce & Gabanna clothing, it is truly heartbreaking, lol.

 

That outfit Sutton wore at dinner looked like a very nice ruffled blouse with a distressed blue jean mini skirt...🤔 She does not know how to dress for her body shape

[Nicmar]

On 8/7/2020 at 12:32 AM, ivygirl said:

Truth be told, I kinda expected her to turn around and say “Tell me all about it, STUD” a la post-makeover Sandy in Grease...

And it really got me that she was so cavalier about being late. Like everyone should just stand around while Her CHA NEL highness had her IG photo shoot. I get that on occasion people run a little late but FORTY FIVE MINUTES?  It’s not like she was unexpectedly detained on the 405. I’m with whichever of them said it wasn’t worth it. They should have sent a warning text, then left. 

I kinda like Sutton. She feels like a throwback to the earlier seasons of these shows.

I liked Dorit's hair , Erika her whole outfit down to make up ,hair and shoes were hideous she looked like a hooker from the 80's

[OdinO.]

18 hours ago, Aim123 said:

This is assuming they are vulnerable and doing it to survive. What if it is just a sex-positive person who enjoys what they do, and have decided they want to do it for a living? Not that this is common, but it is a possibility. Not all sex workers are slaves.

Yeah, but how does one know who is and isn't when seeking such a transaction?

 

[Aim123]

5 hours ago, OdinO. said:

Yeah, but how does one know who is and isn't when seeking such a transaction?

That's my thought too-- we just don't know

[suomi]

On 8/9/2020 at 1:09 PM, Aim123 said:

This is assuming they are vulnerable and doing it to survive. What if it is just a sex-positive person who enjoys what they do, and have decided they want to do it for a living? Not that this is common, but it is a possibility. Not all sex workers are slaves.

Exactly. (Some) call girls and (most) sugar babies make bank. Lots of babies do it to pay their way through college

A former roommate and her friends were in and out of the business depending on how much money and willingness to part with it they scented. They figured "I'm gonna spend the weekend with him anyway so why not get paid for it?" They had jobs so it was just a sideline. I asked roomie why it was a part-time thing and she said "I like the power trip and the money but I'm not always in the mood to play the game." 

[ShawnaLanne]

I'm kind of unclear as to how a hand job relates to Brandi's accusations. I honestly don't know whether or not Denise had sex with Brandi. I don't think it's outside of the realm of reality that it happened because Denise seems to be comfortable in her sexuality and I don't think if she was attracted to women it would be shameful or anything. I also have friends who are bi, I'm not saying all bi people, but these friends don't consider being with another woman as cheating.

However, being open with her sexuality does not mean Denise would think it's cool for a bunch of menopausal broads to talk explicity about sex in front of teenagers -people too young to consent to sex. I'd cut a *itch. Just like being Charlie Sheen's daughter doesn't make it okay for a person to infer that an underage minor has progressed in her sexuality enough to have threesomes. It's pretty sick.

I think these women needed fresh meat for their storylines. Teddi is always a bore and Kyle doesn't want the possibility of her cheating husband brought up, or the many lawsuits against them, and Erika and Dorit don't want their lawsuits to be brought up. Rinna is simply a rwunt who likes to stir the pot. Denise had her year, and they want to use her as a whipping post for year two. Hey, it happens to all the women.

Except. ...

Except, just like with LVP this is cruel. They are trying to destroy her marriage. They are being bullies and no one likes a bully. On top of that, to do this based on a story from Brandi is BS. Everyone knows Brandi is a liar who'd sell out her own mother for $. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by ShawnaLanne

[mertensia]

On 8/9/2020 at 12:03 PM, Door County Cherry said:

I think most food is "local" food as each country tends to have an interpretation of it or is at least limited by what is available or in season locally. 

For instance, my favorite meal in Austria wasn't the Austrian food, it was from the Italian restaurant we went to.  Heck, the pasta we got there was better than the pasta we got in Italy.  I don't see anything wrong with trying sushi in another country to get the Italian-Japanese version of food rather than the Japanese-American version. 

 

When I was in Rome I had the best chicken I have ever had in my life - it was a simple grilled breast with salt and pepper and a lemon wedge to.squeeze over it. It was the best meal I had in Italy. Not terribly "Italian" but so delicious. I had it 2 nights in a row at a little restaurant that clearly catered to Romans (there were tons of businesspeople there when we walked past it at lunchtime) and tourists.

In any case, some people don't care about expanding their palate;  I think that's fine.

[LemonSoda]

3 hours ago, mertensia said:

When I was in Rome I had the best chicken I have ever had in my life - it was a simple grilled breast with salt and pepper and a lemon wedge to.squeeze over it. It was the best meal I had in Italy. Not terribly "Italian" but so delicious. I had it 2 nights in a row at a little restaurant that clearly catered to Romans (there were tons of businesspeople there when we walked past it at lunchtime) and tourists.

In any case, some people don't care about expanding their palate;  I think that's fine.

That’s really what I fell in love with in Italy. I had chicken prepared that way. I had some type of white beans with olive oil, lemon, salt and chili flakes. It’s so hard to explain to others but the “simple” meals turned out to be the most impressive to me. 

But I agree with the original poster as well. The best French meal I’ve ever had wasn’t in Paris, it was in Mexico. 

I can’t stand Kyle but I too like salmon, all oily fish well done. What’s the purpose of Teddy on the show? I love Garcelle. I want Dolce & Gabbana to send me tiaras for my birthday. I’m curious if we’re not seeing Sutton’s full personality. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by LemonSoda
Adding more

[Mar]

1 hour ago, LemonSoda said:

What’s the purpose of Teddy on the show?

I am guessing that Kyle has strong-armed the producers into keeping her ally

[SunnyBeBe]

On 8/6/2020 at 11:15 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

You can do whatever you like.  If I were to go to Rome for only a few days, I would be ordering Italian food.  Or, "Food" as it's known there.

I come from a city with a huge Asian population.  I think our sushi is pretty okay here.  I don't think Italy is known for the same.  I have never had the pleasure of going to Italy.  To me, it would be a dream, a fantasy.  So for Kyle to go there and order sushi, well I personally can't get over it.  It doesn't make sense to me.  YMMV.

I sense that some of the women are not very adventurous when it comes to cuisine and probably don't have a very sophisticated palate.  They are stuck and don't care. They know what they like, and barely eat anyway, so, when they do splurge, they get what they want.  It doesn't really offend me, though.  I find it disappointing, as I love trying new dishes, if nothing else to say that I tried it.  I even ate FROG LEGS once.  lol  Really.  Also, raw oysters (that was crazy and unsafe), venison, rabbit, escargot, etc.  Once, my college roommate brought some homemade stew her mom had made back to school.  After enjoying several servings, she told me it consist of game birds!  Still not sure what that is and haven't looked it up. I think I know.   lol  Her father was an avid hunter.   Actually, I bet Kyle has no idea that her food choices are anything odd and that when dining in Italy, Italian food might be enjoyable.  It might be the least offensive thing about Kyle, but, that's just me. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by SunnyBeBe

[politichick]

47 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I sense that some of the women are not very adventurous when it comes to cuisine and probably don't have a very sophisticated palate.  They are stuck and don't care. They know what they like, and barely eat anyway, so, when they do splurge, they get what they want.  It doesn't really offend me, though.  I find it disappointing, as I love trying new dishes, if nothing else to say that I tried it.  I even ate FROG LEGS once.  lol  Really.  Also, raw oysters (that was crazy and unsafe), venison, rabbit, escargot, etc.  Once, my college roommate brought some homemade stew her mom had made back to school.  After enjoying several servings, she told me it consist of game birds!  Still not sure what that is and haven't looked it up. I think I know.   lol  Her father was an avid hunter.   Actually, I bet Kyle has no idea that her food choices are anything odd and that when dining in Italy, Italian food might be enjoyable.  It might be the least offensive thing about Kyle, but, that's just me. 

I love all of those foods you mentioned and have cooked some of them.

[Set Them Free]

17 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

However, being open with her sexuality does not mean Denise would think it's cool for a bunch of menopausal broads to talk explicity about sex in front of teenagers -people too young to consent to sex. I'd cut a *itch. Just like being Charlie Sheen's daughter doesn't make it okay for a person to infer that an underage minor has progressed in her sexuality enough to have threesomes. It's pretty sick.

Can I ask one question that has been on my mind forever?  If this is the real reason Denise was mad at everyone, then why isn't she mad at Garcelle?  Garcelle is the one that turned the conversation into a sexual direction with "I kissed a girl", and also talked about having threesomes.  We never even saw her apologize for it. 

17 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

Except, just like with LVP this is cruel. They are trying to destroy her marriage. They are being bullies and no one likes a bully. On top of that, to do this based on a story from Brandi is BS. Everyone knows Brandi is a liar who'd sell out her own mother for $.

This is a show that outed the surrogate births of two ten year old boys before their parents had a chance to tell them.  They discussed marital abuse allegations on air that (probably) led a man to commit suicide and leave his 8 year old daughter without a father.  Women have been accused on camera of being alcoholics, abusing drugs, faking illnesses, defrauding business partners and stealing their sister's goddamn house.  Personally, these discussions seem a lot more damaging and hurtful than anything that is being said about Denise (or was ever said about LVP).  But that is the show.  If you sign on, every rumor about you is fair game.  If Denise wants to shut this down, she needs to sit down with Brandi on camera and tear her a new one until she looks like shit or admits to lying.  Don't shoot the messenger, or production lackey as the case may be. 

[ShawnaLanne]

1 hour ago, Set Them Free said:

Can I ask one question that has been on my mind forever?  If this is the real reason Denise was mad at everyone, then why isn't she mad at Garcelle?  Garcelle is the one that turned the conversation into a sexual direction with "I kissed a girl", and also talked about having threesomes.  We never even saw her apologize for it. 

This is a show that outed the surrogate births of two ten year old boys before their parents had a chance to tell them.  They discussed marital abuse allegations on air that (probably) led a man to commit suicide and leave his 8 year old daughter without a father.  Women have been accused on camera of being alcoholics, abusing drugs, faking illnesses, defrauding business partners and stealing their sister's goddamn house.  Personally, these discussions seem a lot more damaging and hurtful than anything that is being said about Denise (or was ever said about LVP).  But that is the show.  If you sign on, every rumor about you is fair game.  If Denise wants to shut this down, she needs to sit down with Brandi on camera and tear her a new one until she looks like shit or admits to lying.  Don't shoot the messenger, or production lackey as the case may be. 

Didn't she say she'd talked Garcelle, like she said she had with the other women? She thought it had been put to bed, but they wouldn't drop it? Because they decided to take her response as mommy shaming at least for the cameras? They would not drop it. Garcelle did.

You mean like Kyle talked so calmly about Marcucio cheating, and Erica being cool with mentions of her abanding her son? Perhaps you are referring to Adrianne and her surrogate and how she skipped the reunion?  Maybe it was Rinna's calmness and clear headed conversation skills that impressed you when Kim brought up those rumors about Harry, that we now know were either about rape alligations or about him being bi. Or both. Not from her though. She shut that down fast on the show  Was it the shank she made of the wine glass that impressed you? Maybe it was Dorit's transparency about her many many lawsuits? 

Holding Denise to a different standard is hypocrisy for the women on the show. 

[Set Them Free]

1 hour ago, ShawnaLanne said:

Didn't she say she'd talked Garcelle, like she said she had with the other women? She thought it had been put to bed, but they wouldn't drop it? Because they decided to take her response as mommy shaming at least for the cameras? They would not drop it. Garcelle did.

I guess I missed where she said she talked to Garcelle.  I am surprised there was no footage. 

1 hour ago, ShawnaLanne said:

Holding Denise to a different standard is hypocrisy for the women on the show. 

I agree that the women are all hypocrites about each other.  And that all of them have reacted in anger when things were said about them.

But that wasn't my point.  My point was more about the statement that what is being done to Denise is especially "cruel", but I think it is pretty tame compared to what these women have done to each other over the years. 

[ShawnaLanne]

24 minutes ago, Set Them Free said:

I guess I missed where she said she talked to Garcelle.  I am surprised there was no footage. 

I agree that the women are all hypocrites about each other.  And that all of them have reacted in anger when things were said about them.

But that wasn't my point.  My point was more about the statement that what is being done to Denise is especially "cruel", but I think it is pretty tame compared to what these women have done to each other over the years. 

Did Garcelle continue to harp on her about it? Has she been scheming with the other women about it? I must have missed that. But I didn't miss her saying she spoke with Garcelle. Maybe it wasn't filmed or maybe it wasn't as interesting as going back to when Erica giggled about whether or not Denise's daughter had a threesome.

I'm guessing we have a diffetent idea of cruelty. In my world a concerted effort to end a new marriage is cruel. Not that I generally participate in pain olympics.

Edited August 12, 2020 by ShawnaLanne

[Set Them Free]

1 hour ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I'm guessing we have a diffetent idea of cruelty. In my world a concerted effort to end a new marriage is cruel. Not that I generally participate in pain olympics.

Was outing Adrienne’s boys surrogacy less cruel?  I just believe what was done to Adrienne’s sons and Russell Armstrong’s daughter was way worse.

On this, all Denise had to do is laugh it off as a bunch of nonsense.  “Ladies, trust me, Brandi is not my type.”  Rumors about celebrity infidelity are a dime a dozen and no one even remembers them five minutes later.

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Set Them Free

[ShawnaLanne]

47 minutes ago, Set Them Free said:

Was outing Adrienne’s boys surrogacy less cruel?  I just believe what was done to Adrienne’s sons and Russell Armstrong’s daughter was way worse.

On this, all Denise had to do is laugh it off as a bunch of nonsense.  “Ladies, trust me, Brandi is not my type.”  Rumors about celebrity infidelity are a dime a dozen and no one even remembers them five minutes later.

 

I'm unclear, where after you brought it up I said it was less cruel? I don't think I actually used those words at any time in reference to that. What I said was in my world trying to break up a marriage is cruel and that basically calling an underage child a whore because of her parents is not acceptable. The rumours are one thing - the malicious manner they went about it another. I don't think celebrities are a different species somehow and the idea of a divorce any easier. However Denise responded in the moment to try to defuse the situation doesn't negate those two things.

I also stated that I don't go into pain olympics. It's a thing with me, I had a traumatic, by anyone's standards, childhood. But pain is relative for each person and while I had a bad childhood, there's always worse. So my kid, whose biggest trauma was my divorce, her pain is the worse she's gone through. And we don't compete. 

[Set Them Free]

What you said in your original post was...

23 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I think these women needed fresh meat for their storylines....Hey, it happens to all the women.

Except. ...

Except, just like with LVP this is cruel. They are trying to destroy her marriage. They are being bullies and no one likes a bully. On top of that, to do this based on a story from Brandi is BS. Everyone knows Brandi is a liar who'd sell out her own mother for $. 

The “Except...” implies that what happened to the other women was not cruel, but what happened to LVP and Denise is.

This show has been the pain jr. olympics for a while.  I say jr. olympics because the problems and spats are mostly over nonsense.  Even this.  Aaron is not going to believe Brandi over his own wife, and most people won’t believe Brandi over Denise.  Their marriage will be fine.  

Still, I understand that I could have a different view because I have not been through anything like this.  I am sorry for what you went through.

[ShawnaLanne]

9 minutes ago, Set Them Free said:

What you said in your original post was...

The “Except...” implies that what happened to the other women was not cruel, but what happened to LVP and Denise is.

This show has been the pain jr. olympics for a while.  I say jr. olympics because the problems and spats are mostly over nonsense.  Even this.  Aaron is not going to believe Brandi over his own wife, and most people won’t believe Brandi over Denise.  Their marriage will be fine.  

Still, I understand that I could have a different view because I have not been through anything like this.  I am sorry for what you went through.

Ah, that isn't what I meant. I wasn't thinking beyond this and the last seasons in that post.

Here's what I think of the situation

- one, Aaron is creepy and two, there's a chance Denise did have sex with Brandi. I think the women got pissed off at Denise's party because they had a plan to out her there. They were vollying the talk a lot. Rinna looked like a cat who ate the canary, Erica looked smug, Kyle nervous, Dorit conflicted, and Teddi bullheaded. I don't think the other women were in the conspiracy.

Denise realized they were fishing. She tried to cut it off. The other women wouldn't have it and ended up showing their asses. Then and in the confessionsls. I think they were embarrassed and angry that they were foiled and "made to look bad" and then they got mean. It became personal. And yeah, I think they wanted to really hurt her. And they are all coming off as bullies

Thank you, my childhood is mostly dealt with, but one thing I try to keep in the forefront is having empathy for others. I don't ever want to fall into a trap of self pity.

[RealHousewife]

6 hours ago, Set Them Free said:

This is a show that outed the surrogate births of two ten year old boys before their parents had a chance to tell them.  They discussed marital abuse allegations on air that (probably) led a man to commit suicide and leave his 8 year old daughter without a father.  Women have been accused on camera of being alcoholics, abusing drugs, faking illnesses, defrauding business partners and stealing their sister's goddamn house.  Personally, these discussions seem a lot more damaging and hurtful than anything that is being said about Denise (or was ever said about LVP).  But that is the show.  If you sign on, every rumor about you is fair game.  If Denise wants to shut this down, she needs to sit down with Brandi on camera and tear her a new one until she looks like shit or admits to lying.  Don't shoot the messenger, or production lackey as the case may be. 

I agree you have a point about how dark the show has been at times. When LVP talked about her terribly she had been treated years ago and said how great and light the show used to be, I'd be like what?! Being accused of selling stories and compared to Bobby Fischer paled in comparison to things like private information regarding kids being outed, the world finding out you're an addict, Russell's suicide, and all the rest of the stuff you mentioned. Mind you, I think what LVP went through prior to filming of last season was horrific, and I thought the way she was treated was really cold. Even if the allegations weren't as damaging as some of the others, her overall treatment was quite mean considering the trauma she just had.

1 hour ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I'm unclear, where after you brought it up I said it was less cruel? I don't think I actually used those words at any time in reference to that. What I said was in my world trying to break up a marriage is cruel and that basically calling an underage child a whore because of her parents is not acceptable. The rumours are one thing - the malicious manner they went about it another. I don't think celebrities are a different species somehow and the idea of a divorce any easier. However Denise responded in the moment to try to defuse the situation doesn't negate those two things.

I also stated that I don't go into pain olympics. It's a thing with me, I had a traumatic, by anyone's standards, childhood. But pain is relative for each person and while I had a bad childhood, there's always worse. So my kid, whose biggest trauma was my divorce, her pain is the worse she's gone through. And we don't compete. 

I agree with you as well. I think what they're doing to Denise is gross. They are going after her marriage and disrespecting her children over and over again. That is unacceptable. 

I also see your point about pain olympics. This is a bit tricky, because tbh it's hard not to draw some comparisons imo when we discuss different things that have occurred on the show (and the actual housewives comparing who's had it worse themselves). I have a mother who's had a lot of very serious health issues, both mental and physical, and would dismiss my problems my entire life. I spoke to a therapist who acknowledged I did have a traumatic childhood and parents who were emotionally unavailable. It is extremely hurtful when someone's pain is ignored. I know if I ever have kids I will do everything in my power for them to not have childhoods anything like mine. I'll be honest and say when my friends would complain about their parents being divorced and how it affected them, while I was always kind and there to listen, inside I'd always think "if only you knew some of the crap I've been through and go through. I wish my biggest issue were my parents divorcing." But I know if I were to be divorced, I wouldn't compete with my child. 

[VedaPierce]

On 8/6/2020 at 6:22 PM, Door County Cherry said:

I have an inside baseball theory of production shenanigans which might explain the inconsistency.

The show allegedly gave Denise a contract.  But unless it's guaranteed, they can fire her whenever they want and save money from that contract.  Denise was pretty low key last season.  She didn't really get into scuffles or drive the drama.  That's fine for a first year housewife, especially with with the notoriety surrounding her marriage to Sheen.  

But housewives are expected to bring drama and get involved in scuffles.  And there are times I think she's almost laughing when talking about the Brandi thing.  Could she have invented this with Brandi to help juice up what she brings to the show this season? It'd explain some of the inconsistencies, it'd explain why I sometimes think she's laughing and why I sometimes think she's acting. 

I remember Rinna, about a season or so ago, being rather low key after some heated seasons.  But it's like the show let her take a breather but if she wanted to keep her diamond, she needed to dial it back up and off we go.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Garcelle next season.    

Omg I had your same crazy thought over the weekend! What if Brandi and Denise cooked this up to bring them down?! I mean, let’s face it, none of the accusers look good running with this shit, and Denise is a legit actress, and Brandy’s dream is to play Housewives Chess and to screw over Kyle (whom I thinks she REALLY hates). The stupid rumor also just doesn’t seem plausible to me, yes Denise looks guilty and isn’t great with her inaccurate denials, but come on....having sneaky sex with BRANDI??? After just getting married on camera last season and proclaiming all this love for your husband?? Brandi, when she was telling the story at Kyle’s, seemed rambling and was hard to follow at times, Denise’s rebuttals afterwards have all been so inconsistent. Cease and Desist notices to someone about affair accusations?? Is that a thing? Like, a LEGAL thing?? I would like to see a screenshot of the cease and desist letter, I don’t believe there is one. Something’s off with this and I smell a setup. I can just hear Brandi whispering with Denise about ‘let’s get these bitches!’

I would LOVE for this to be true!

Edited August 12, 2020 by VedaPierce

[VedaPierce]

On 8/8/2020 at 9:01 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Camille's "Dinner Party from Hell" with Alison DuBois and her e-cig is always worth watching. 

It’s up there with “Scary Island”. Iconic reality tv gold.

[Jel]

12 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

Did Garcelle continue to harp on her about it? Has she been scheming with the other women about it? I must have missed that. But I didn't miss her saying she spoke with Garcelle. Maybe it wasn't filmed or maybe it wasn't as interesting as going back to when Erica giggled about whether or not Denise's daughter had a threesome.

I'm guessing we have a diffetent idea of cruelty. In my world a concerted effort to end a new marriage is cruel. Not that I generally participate in pain olympics.

I think that's the takeaway point. Denise asked them to keep it down in front of the kids. That's a fair request by any standard. But since these OGs can't be wrong, they couldn't just say, "OH, sorry, yes I'll shut up". Instead they had to get all defensive and make it about how they were being "mom shamed" by "Wild Thing".  People can say or do something wrong, and then change their behavior. This is the difference between Garcelle's response and the others' responses. Garcelle stopped and moved on, the others couldn't admit they'd messed up and instead got defensive and do what defensive people in the wrong do.  It's a character thing.

[Jel]

13 hours ago, Set Them Free said:

I guess I missed where she said she talked to Garcelle.  I am surprised there was no footage. 

I agree that the women are all hypocrites about each other.  And that all of them have reacted in anger when things were said about them.

But that wasn't my point.  My point was more about the statement that what is being done to Denise is especially "cruel", but I think it is pretty tame compared to what these women have done to each other over the years. 

I think Housewives Historians (is that a job, btw, and where do I apply?) will judge this as one of the more cruel episodes, as opposed to silly spats the HWs often get into (like wineglass gate or lategate between Teddi and Dorit, for example).

The whole vibe that evening was confrontational. Denise was accused of doing "bad, really bad" things. It became obvious to her that she'd been discussed beforehand. It was clear her so called friends (co=workers) were giving credence to someone who was, under normal circumstances, considered a liar, but in *this* case, and only in this case, was suddenly the voice of authority. 

It went past a "I heard a rumor. OMG is that true?" kind of thing, where Denise could have rolled her eyes and denied it. She was already deep in the hot seat that that point, and things had elevated to such a confrontational level that even when she did try to deny it, the others wouldn't let it go. 

Not a single one of them had been wronged personally by Denise -- if she cheated on her husband, that's between Aaron and Denise -- so not a single one of them had any reason to care that much. But the way they approached it and carried on, telling her to own it and admit it and just get the truth out there, when it was none of their business, showed me that they were clearly out to get her.  That's what makes it so bad.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Jel

[LibertarianSlut]

1 hour ago, Jel said:

I think that's the takeaway point. Denise asked them to keep it down in front of the kids. That's a fair request by any standard. But since these OGs can't be wrong, they couldn't just say, "OH, sorry, yes I'll shut up". Instead they had to get all defensive and make it about how they were being "mom shamed" by "Wild Thing".  People can say or do something wrong, and then change their behavior. This is the difference between Garcelle's response and the others' responses. Garcelle stopped and moved on, the others couldn't admit they'd messed up and instead got defensive and do what defensive people in the wrong do.  It's a character thing.

I’m just curious; how was, say, Dorit more defensive than Garcelle?  I think each of the women has a different level of accountability, but Garcelle’s hands aren’t clean either.  She has been getting in remarks all season—she just says them with a smile.  The only OG is Kyle, so I’m just not seeing a delineation between Garcelle on one hand, and the other women on the other.  Sutton seems to be in a different category than Lisa.  I think everyone is running their own race with regard to Denise.  

Aside from that, responding to another oft-made assertion, I can’t understand when it is postured that these women “don’t eat.”  I know that’s hyperbole, and what folks mean is that they “barely eat.”  But have we seen Kyle, Garcelle, Erika, or Denise?  I was just quarantine watching old episodes of America’s Next Top Model, and if Erika and Garcelle were to go into modeling, they would definitely be plus-sized.  And Kyle and Denise are nowhere near model thin.  

When Teddi is not pregnant, she and Dorit have thin, trim, athletic figures that make them look like they take care of themselves, not that they starve.  

Lisa Rinna is the only one who looks like she barely eats.  The vegan, non-dairy cheese stands alone.  

But as a whole, this franchise right now is one of the bigger ones.  Back in season one, Camille was as skinny as Lisa Rinna, and then there was Taylor.  Joyce and Brandi were also teeny tiny season four.  Orange County has had some really tiny women, like Meghan King Edmonds, Peggy Tanous and Lydia McLaughlin.  DC had Michaela Salahi.  Miami had Lisa Hochstein, Potomac had Katie, Dallas had Tiffany Hendra, and Atlanta had Shamari.  New Jersey has Jackie, but New York took the cake with the three resident super skinny women on one season—Bethenny, Carole, and Jules.  So there’s one “non-eater” on this BH cast.  Seems like par for the course.

I don’t care whether they put their calories into their bodies on camera or off, this is not a cast that doesn’t eat.  The calories are getting through somewhere.  And I seem to recall them eating roughly as much as any other franchise, like OC, where they are constantly cooking and going out to dinner at The Quiet Woman.  Remember season one when Taylor practically dislocated her jaw, first eating cotton candy in Vegas, and then again eating Fatburger at Kyle’s white party?  Erika had pumpkin pie for breakfast last season.  Kyle always seems to be nibbling on something at home and at parties.  Teddi often has to use her man hands to cover her mouth full of food to speak at restaurants.  I mean, these are women who blew off a wellness retreat to eat French fries in a hotel room. I’m just not seeing a connection to not eating, other than Rinna.  Lack of interest in culinary masterpieces and a preoccupation with alcohol?  Yes, I see that.  But they’re also eating something.  Lots of somethings.  

Call me crazy, but this is what a Housewife who “doesn’t eat” looks to me:  

This just looks like a healthy cast.  The ones who can gain a few are outweighed (no pun intended) by the ones who could stand to lose a few:

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by LibertarianSlut
Clarity

[VedaPierce]

On 8/11/2020 at 6:58 AM, mertensia said:

When I was in Rome I had the best chicken I have ever had in my life - it was a simple grilled breast with salt and pepper and a lemon wedge to.squeeze over it. It was the best meal I had in Italy. Not terribly "Italian" but so delicious. I had it 2 nights in a row at a little restaurant that clearly catered to Romans (there were tons of businesspeople there when we walked past it at lunchtime) and tourists.

In any case, some people don't care about expanding their palate;  I think that's fine.

When I was in Rome, I went to an Italian ‘fast food’ place called “Kenny Burger” (?!) I ordered the rigatoni with marinara and the kid behind the counter said they were out, and would I mind waiting while he made some. He proceeded to chop up fresh basil, tomato, garlic, etc, and cooked that up on the spot! It was an amazing, delicious experience and I never forgot it, even 30 years later! I was a teenager then and he was younger than me! Blew my mind. 

[dmeets]

2 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

 

 

I don't know if it's the resolution on my screen or what, but Teddi looks unrecognizable in this picture. Like, a completely different face!