The Bachelor Season 25: Spoilers and Speculation

[Diana Berry]

I follow Bennett on IG..  Him and the guys from Clare’s season are all friends and hangout.  He seems like a good guy.  What about him as the Bachelor?

[KenyaJ]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:38 PM, CindyBee said:

It started over on Reddit.   She never really hid her social media presence and as people delved back into her likes and posts, they came across some that were questionable.  Then one poster had access to the "Old South" party photos and posted them (with all the other girls' faces crossed out) and it took off from there.  

Also one of her former high school classmates posted a TikTok about how Rachael used to bully her for dating black men. (Ironic!) I think a few other classmates chimed in after that saying Rachael did the same to them. 

[funnygirl]

1 hour ago, KenyaJ said:

Also one of her former high school classmates posted a TikTok about how Rachael used to bully her for dating black men. (Ironic!) I think a few other classmates chimed in after that saying Rachael did the same to them. 

Yeah, I think this is where it started because the video was circulating on Twitter during the West Coast airing of the season premiere. (at least I think it was episode 1, could've been episode 2) And then Rachael's friends were defending her and attacking the original poster, and then more people started chiming in and it snowballed. 

[Bobcatkitten]

Anyone have any examples of things she said or liked that we can see for ourselves rather than a she said/she said? 

[DEL901]

42 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Anyone have any examples of things she said or liked that we can see for ourselves rather than a she said/she said? 

I would suggest google or perhaps Reddit.   

[Recyclorette]

16 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Anyone have any examples of things she said or liked that we can see for ourselves rather than a she said/she said? 

Forming an opinion of someone based on their own social media posts is one thing; blindly believing accusations without proof is something else entirely. I would never, ever assume that an accusation from a teenage classmate was true without solid evidence. I've witnessed too much as a mother, an aunt, and a school volunteer not to question the motivations of adolescent girls.

[Bluesky]

2 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

Forming an opinion of someone based on their own social media posts is one thing; blindly believing accusations without proof is something else entirely. I would never, ever assume that an accusation from a teenage classmate was true without solid evidence. I've witnessed too much as a mother, an aunt, and a school volunteer not to question the motivations of adolescent girls.

They aren’t teenagers anymore.  When it comes to the bullies, teenagers know who they are.   A lot of times parents are clueless to the fact that their child is the bully.  

[Bobcatkitten]

3 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

Forming an opinion of someone based on their own social media posts is one thing; blindly believing accusations without proof is something else entirely. I would never, ever assume that an accusation from a teenage classmate was true without solid evidence. I've witnessed too much as a mother, an aunt, and a school volunteer not to question the motivations of adolescent girls.

Which is why I asked for actual examples...so confused. 

[Recyclorette]

5 hours ago, Bluesky said:

They aren’t teenagers anymore.  When it comes to the bullies, teenagers know who they are.   A lot of times parents are clueless to the fact that their child is the bully.  

As another poster said, it's she said/she said. I just feel that the high school years in particular are tumultuous and I wouldn't want to judge anyone based on accusations that can't be proven.  I'm not accusing or defending either side, I just like facts.  There's a lot of bullying online, too, and it's too easy for someone with an agenda to hide behind a computer.

5 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Which is why I asked for actual examples...so confused. 

Oh, my comment wasn't aimed at you, if that's what you're thinking!  It sounds like we're both looking for truth, not hearsay.

[Back Atcha]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:33 PM, Diana Berry said:

I follow Bennett on IG..  Him and the guys from Clare’s season are all friends and hangout.

Maybe the franchise should resurrect an idea like the old Barbizon Hotel (Google it) in the glory days of New York showbiz.  It was a safe place for young ladies to live--young ladies who were all hellbent on making it on Broadway! (There were movies with a similar hotel as the backdrop.) Every Bachelor contencer and Bachelorette male contestant seems to know all the others already.  It's some underground fraternity. Even Mr. Wide-Eyed Innocent Matt was part of the gang.  Friendships would be formed.  Bullies could bully.  Weaklings will be broken.  HEY!  A new weekly show is in the pipeline!

On 2/27/2021 at 9:33 PM, Diana Berry said:

He seems like a good guy

I liked him, but he's a strong personality who does have airs.

On 2/27/2021 at 9:33 PM, Diana Berry said:

What about him as the Bachelor?

It would take a strong-willed/minded woman to deal with what he perceives as his sophistication and intelligence.

[NoWhammies]

On 2/28/2021 at 8:47 PM, KenyaJ said:

Also one of her former high school classmates posted a TikTok about how Rachael used to bully her for dating black men. (Ironic!) I think a few other classmates chimed in after that saying Rachael did the same to them. 

She sounds like an absolute delight.

[RealHousewife]

On 3/1/2021 at 8:02 PM, Recyclorette said:

As another poster said, it's she said/she said. I just feel that the high school years in particular are tumultuous and I wouldn't want to judge anyone based on accusations that can't be proven.  I'm not accusing or defending either side, I just like facts.  There's a lot of bullying online, too, and it's too easy for someone with an agenda to hide behind a computer.

Oh, my comment wasn't aimed at you, if that's what you're thinking!  It sounds like we're both looking for truth, not hearsay.

Exactly. I think high schoolers should know better than to bully someone for dating a black boy, but there's not any proof of this. Also, don't we all know how ugly females can be? I don't put it past someone who was jealous of Rachael perhaps being the popular pretty girl in high school and then ending up on the Bachelor completely making stuff up about her. I totally get wanting Rachael to address the photo and the rumors. I'm glad she apologized, but I'm against picking this girl and her family apart.  

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by RealHousewife

[Recyclorette]

8 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Exactly. I think high schoolers should know better than to bully someone for dating a black boy, but there's not any proof of this. Also, don't we all know how ugly females can be? I don't put it past someone who was jealous of Rachael perhaps being the popular pretty girl in high school and then ending up on the Bachelor completely making stuff up about her. I totally get wanting Rachael to address the photo and the rumors. I'm glad she apologized, but I'm against picking this girl and her family apart.  

 

I'm wondering if it's possible that Rachael was exploring her own attraction to black men and was asking probing questions that made some girls defensive.  Supposedly, her community is known for being racist.  If that's true and she herself is racist, why would she apply for this show now when there's a black lead? If it's for fame, why wouldn't she wait for a white bachelor since I would imagine there will be some negative feedback over this one when she gets back home.  Pictures and posts are more reliable evidence but could just point to lack of wisdom.  We aren't all raised by educated and enlightened parents and may need some time to grow.  Ignorance and racism are not the same thing.

[funnygirl]

5 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

I'm wondering if it's possible that Rachael was exploring her own attraction to black men and was asking probing questions that made some girls defensive.  Supposedly, her community is known for being racist.  If that's true and she herself is racist, why would she apply for this show now when there's a black lead? If it's for fame, why wouldn't she wait for a white bachelor since I would imagine there will be some negative feedback over this one when she gets back home.  Pictures and posts are more reliable evidence but could just point to lack of wisdom.  We aren't all raised by educated and enlightened parents and may need some time to grow.  Ignorance and racism are not the same thing.

Perhaps for social media clout, $$$$, and possibly to be the next Bachelorette or on BIP? Bachelor Nation can be very lucrative. 

The application process is oftentimes open before the Bachelor and Bachelorette is even announced... for instance, the commercials we see this and every season about eligible singles applying. 

In so many ways, this season is a big ol' failure. These next two episodes will be cringey at best. 

[Mabinogia]

6 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

We aren't all raised by educated and enlightened parents and may need some time to grow.  Ignorance and racism are not the same thing.

I'm willing to give her a chance. She was raised by racists in a racist community so it sadly isn't surprising that when she was a child, teen and even into college she might be racists. Hopefully, as she's gotten out in the world and met more people, and seen more cultures and had more experiences she isn't the same girl she was. It would be a very sad world if no one ever grew out of what they learned in their small childhood world. 

[JenE4]

This is a pretty juicy speculative rumor. If you don’t want to read the article, apparently Matt and Heather are (were?) in the same town at the same time (though not spotted together), so some speculation that he broke up with Rachel and may be dating Heather, and that’s why they didn’t feature her on TWTA because maybe she’ll be on ATFR instead. 
 

https://apple.news/A5Z1pPls5RYiCgtLgRdApNA

 

[TiredMe]

3 hours ago, JenE4 said:

This is a pretty juicy speculative rumor. If you don’t want to read the article, apparently Matt and Heather are (were?) in the same town at the same time (though not spotted together), so some speculation that he broke up with Rachel and may be dating Heather, and that’s why they didn’t feature her on TWTA because maybe she’ll be on ATFR instead. 
 

https://apple.news/A5Z1pPls5RYiCgtLgRdApNA

 

I saw a comment about how they were rumored to be together. I guess time will tell. 

[rebel2u]

22 hours ago, funnygirl said:

Perhaps for social media clout, $$$$, and possibly to be the next Bachelorette or on BIP? Bachelor Nation can be very lucrative

Yes, perhaps Rachel Lindsay could speak to this. 

She made (per RS) about $100,000 as bachelorette. She cohosts a radio show, 2 podcasts and has worked as  a correspondent for Extra.  

Now she spends her time talking sh*t about the show that is the reason she has all these gigs.

21 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

She was raised by racists in a racist community so it sadly isn't surprising that when she was a child, teen and even into college she might be racists. 

Do tell!  

Edited March 4, 2021 by rebel2u

[Bobcatkitten]

Them editing Heather out of the WTA is so weird. I want to know what is going on with that. They didn't introduce her but she was clearly there. Was there a blowup or something? So confused. 

[Recyclorette]

4 hours ago, rebel2u said:

Yes, perhaps Rachel Lindsay could speak to this. 

She made (per RS) about $100,000 as bachelorette. She cohosts a radio show, 2 podcasts and has worked as  a correspondent for Extra.  

Now she spends her time talking sh*t about the show that is the reason she has all these gigs.

  

^^^THIS.  Why would a mature, intelligent, well-educated woman, who clearly must have always had serious racial issues with this franchise, go on it TWICE?   And every time the franchise tries to satisfy her concerns, she has a problem with those attempts, too.  So rich coming from the woman who kept and used a clearly naive and friend-zoned black man in her top 3 for appearances.  

Why on earth is she still part of this idiotic franchise?  She's been threatening to leave for years and could do so much more good for the black community as a lawyer for the underrepresented.  But that's a no brainer.  

 

[Diana Berry]

5 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

^^^THIS.  Why would a mature, intelligent, well-educated woman, who clearly must have always had serious racial issues with this franchise, go on it TWICE?   And every time the franchise tries to satisfy her concerns, she has a problem with those attempts, too.  So rich coming from the woman who kept and used a clearly naive and friend-zoned black man in her top 3 for appearances.  

Why on earth is she still part of this idiotic franchise?  She's been threatening to leave for years and could do so much more good for the black community as a lawyer for the underrepresented.  But that's a no brainer.  

 

Seriously , I watch this show to escape reality.  I certainly don’t need her to tell me how to think and feel.  

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

Seriously , I watch this show to escape reality.  I certainly don’t need her to tell me how to think and feel.  

Ditto. I watch lots of news. I keep up with politics. I'm an antiracist. I'm sure people have considered me "the woke police." I do not tune into reality shows for anything deep. It's my fun escapist time. I totally understanding wanting to keep racists off the show, perhaps discussing race if the issue comes up dating interracially or something, but I don't want this show to be serious and all about race either. I also don't think ungracefully trying to defend a college girl for possibly just being ignorant but not hateful is this heinous crime. I was annoyed by that interview and posted about it, but I was even more annoyed by how ugly everything got after it. Chris Harrison is not a news anchor, not in politics, not a professor. His job is to be a charming likable host, which he is. 

7 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

^^^THIS.  Why would a mature, intelligent, well-educated woman, who clearly must have always had serious racial issues with this franchise, go on it TWICE?   And every time the franchise tries to satisfy her concerns, she has a problem with those attempts, too.  So rich coming from the woman who kept and used a clearly naive and friend-zoned black man in her top 3 for appearances.  

Why on earth is she still part of this idiotic franchise?  She's been threatening to leave for years and could do so much more good for the black community as a lawyer for the underrepresented.  But that's a no brainer.  

 

I was not a BN watcher during Rachel's season. I think she's a beautiful, intelligent, educated woman and admire her a great deal. I feel awful for any racism she's endured, and yes, even successful people experience it, feel great hurt, and have every right to speak out on it. (I've heard some people point to her success and say she should shut up about racism, yeah no!) But I also think she expects this franchise to be something it's just not. It's a trashy reality show. She's one of the exceptions to have actually even found love. As many contestants as they have each year, they're never going to be able to weed out all the racists. If she expects any contestant whose entire life and social media aren't perfect to be picked apart, how many people are going to sign up? I've got nothing that would haunt me, but I know good people who get TMI and stupid on social media. It started with millennials like me, and those younger often document everything they do and post everything they think. No one's perfect. I'm sure if you look hard enough at someone's Facebook, Twitter, IG, you'll find something offensive if you want to. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by RealHousewife

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 3/1/2021 at 7:02 PM, Recyclorette said:

It sounds like we're both looking for truth, not hearsay.

Good luck with that.

[Diana Berry]

Well now stahan is acting like Harrison is not sincere after he interviewed him.  I didn’t get that vibe but he does want to move on.   I just don’t want to see him lose his job.  I’ve been watching since season 1. He’s apologized .  He knows he was wrong.   This whole cancel culture just goes too far sometimes.  

[Recyclorette]

34 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I also don't think ungracefully trying to defend a college girl for possibly just being ignorant but not hateful is this heinous crime. I was annoyed by that interview and posted about it, but I was even more annoyed by how ugly everything got after it. Chris Harrison is not a news anchor, not in politics, not a professor. His job is to be a charming likable host, which he is. 

I'm sure Chris Harrison is not perfect, but he was attempting to be diplomatic and do his job as the face of this franchise while being put on the spot.  He was in the impossible position of being asked to answer for another person.  He is the host of the show Rachael Kirkconnell is currently on.  What would have been the reaction if he had trashed her?  Yeah, he bombed in the moment.  But I've never seen any behavior from him that's made me think he's racist.

34 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I was not a BN watcher during Rachel's season. I think she's a beautiful, intelligent, educated woman and admire her a great deal. I feel awful for any racism she's endured, and yes, even successful people experience it, feel great hurt, and have every right to speak out on it. (I've heard some people point to her success and say she should shut up about racism, yeah no!) But I also think she expects this franchise to be something it's just not. It's a trashy reality show. 

Rachel is too smart to expect this franchise to be anything other than a vehicle for trashy TV, but she has decided to stay and exploit it for fame and fortune.  TPTB have actually extended Rachel a lot of grace.  Can you think of another instance where an employee turned around and trashed the company that promoted their success and then not been fired?    

[RealHousewife]

2 minutes ago, Recyclorette said:

I'm sure Chris Harrison is not perfect, but he was attempting to be diplomatic and do his job as the face of this franchise while being put on the spot.  He was in the impossible position of being asked to answer for another person.  He is the host of the show Rachael Kirkconnell is currently on.  What would have been the reaction if he had trashed her?  Yeah, he bombed in the moment.  But I've never seen any behavior from him that's made me think he's racist.

Rachel is too smart to expect this franchise to be anything other than a vehicle for trashy TV, but she has decided to stay and exploit it for fame and fortune.  TPTB have actually extended Rachel a lot of grace.  Can you think of another instance where an employee turned around and trashed the company that promoted their success and then not been fired?    

Totally agree with you. I don't think Chris is racist, and he was put on the spot. Most people would not have had the perfect answer. I appreciate that he was trying to not throw a young woman under the bus. There's a difference between asking, yo what's up with Rachael having gone to this party and these other rumors? What do you think, Chris? and calling this girl Rachael KKK and acting like Chris Harrison committed a crime. I think his intention was to protect a contestant he'd seen nothing but good from and was getting picked apart, not to dismiss racism or talk down to Rachel.  

Agreed. Rachel is a smart cookie and should know what this franchise is all about. It's a show where one person dates like 30 people who are only allowed to date the lead, kisses multiple people the same day, has fantasy suites where he/she will sleep with three different people back to back, lots of pettiness, lots of drama. It's a ridiculous show in many ways, meant to be pure entertaiment and fun. Most people just use the show as an opportunity to be on TV and start or further their careers as influencers, models, music artists, etc. If they actually find someone, it's more of a bonus. 

Rachel is one of the lucky ones who did actually find "her person." She also benefited a great deal from the show in other ways though. I can understand having a love-hate relationship with something, but I feel like I hear more negativity from her about the franchise. I have my own criticisms of it. I can't believe it took so long to get a black bachelorette and a black bachelor. But the show did give Rachel some fame, she found her husband, she now has a bunch of opportunities. They're trying to do better each show. I truly don't think Chris nor most of the contestants are racist. I know there have been some really problematic contestants, and I don't blame her for calling that out. There's no way I'd date some of the people who've been on the show. But it's almost like she expects perfection and for everyone to think just like her. Even those of us who look at stuff Rachael did and didn't like it, does Rachel think we're all bad folks if we don't jump to comparing this girl to truly dangerous awful people and want Chris to keep his job?  

[shok]

Very sad to see all the posts and the attitudes of trying to make excuses for Chris Harrison. His interview with Rachel was the very epitome of white privilege. He's not an evil man but he certainly has a long way to go to understand what racism is and how prevalent it is in the country. A popular show like the Bachelor could help people learn about the issue if it was handled properly which it hasn't been so far.

[DEL901]

5 hours ago, shok said:

Very sad to see all the posts and the attitudes of trying to make excuses for Chris Harrison. His interview with Rachel was the very epitome of white privilege. He's not an evil man but he certainly has a long way to go to understand what racism is and how prevalent it is in the country. A popular show like the Bachelor could help people learn about the issue if it was handled properly which it hasn't been so far.

Exactly. “Good” people excusing bad behaviour are enablers.  They allow these behaviours to continue because they won’t call them out because either 1) they want the other person to keep liking them, 2) they are profiting from the other person and money is more important than doing the right thing or 3) because they secretly agree but are too chicken to own their own beliefs.  

[Recyclorette]

1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

Exactly. “Good” people excusing bad behaviour are enablers.  They allow these behaviours to continue because they won’t call them out because either 1) they want the other person to keep liking them, 2) they are profiting from the other person and money is more important than doing the right thing or 3) because they secretly agree but are too chicken to own their own beliefs.  

If you want to talk about being "too chicken," why is Rachel Lindsay not directly confronting the individuals she is accusing of racism, namely Rachael Kirkconnell and Garrett Yrigoyen?  While no one is excusing what Chris Harrison said, maybe people have a bit of compassion for him and Lindsay's "best friend" Becca Kufrin because they were publicly cornered into explaining someone else's behavior.  That is not OK, and exactly who is profiting from the Chris and Becca interviews and all the resulting fallout and attention? 

As for this franchise teaching about racism or any serious subject, that's a total joke.  All they do is up their game each season in promoting horrendous behavior.  The only good coming out of all this crap stirring is to Rachel Lindsay's ego and wallet.  And she's smart enough to realize that.

[DA6988]

It’s pretty clear what most fans of the show think at this point. At the end of the day this isn’t just about Rachael having suspect photos and behavior previously. This is about this show - which waited 25 seasons before deciding a black bachelor was worth it because of “reasons” messing up the whole season. These producers went out of their way to cast someone who they didn’t vet (they found Rachael not the other way around). They cut conversations that would have allowed people to understand Matt’s life and journey (sharing his own story about being treated differently with different hairstyles). They gave the only slightly platable white girl this season a whole storyline (while we still don’t know that much about the other women that went this far) and she’s very likely going to be named bachelorette next despite the fact that it’s not common for someone who goes home at the point she did to be named bachelorette (probably because the actual top group of ladies were primarily women of color and god forbid they cast another one so soon after Tayshia and Matt). The fact that Rachel Lindsay is getting death threats and had to take Instagram because Chris Harrison went on her show and acted a fool is pretty indicative of the issue. And I actually agree with the basic sentiment that Chris H. isn’t blatantly racist and I don’t think he needs to be “canceled.” I do think that people crying out about how unfair it is for him to take a temporary step back which he could use to do some work and maybe really understand why his words were problematic is why things don’t change. The bare minimum of consequences for actions is always “too much.” 

I know Katie hasn’t been named yet but if she is there’s no doubt in my mind the producers entire attitude toward race plays a role. And the majority of bachelor nation is okay with all the problematic behaviors.

I’m super curious to hear from Matt at the end of all this since it seems like him and Rachael aren’t even together after all this anyways. 

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

If you want to talk about being "too chicken," why is Rachel Lindsay not directly confronting the individuals she is accusing of racism, namely Rachael Kirkconnell and Garrett Yrigoyen? 

She's a black woman who confronts racism every day of her life.  It's really not on BIPOC to directly confront every instance of racist behavior.  Besides, there's no guarantee the show would let Rachael on Rachel's podcast or that Garrett would agree to sit down with Rachel even if she wanted to.

And no, I don't think she should want to.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Irlandesa

[Recyclorette]

31 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

She's a black woman who confronts racism every day of her life.  It's really not on BIPOC to directly confront every instance of racist behavior.  Besides, there's no guarantee the show would let Rachael on Rachel's podcast or that Garrett would agree to sit down with Rachel even if she wanted to.

And no, I don't think she should want to.

 

 

I totally agree that it's not on BIPOC to directly confront every instance of racism.  I also agree Rachel probably wouldn't want to sit down with Garrett or Rachael K.  That's fine, and she has every right to voice her opinion of their behavior.  What she does not have the right to do is set up and use other people to answer for them.

[Irlandesa]

3 minutes ago, Recyclorette said:

What she does not have the right to do is set up and use other people to answer for them.

Who did she set up?

[Recyclorette]

1 minute ago, Irlandesa said:

Who did she set up?

When you publicly spring it on someone to explain another's sensitive behavior, without any warning or time to think, that's a setup.  She did it with her "good friend" Becca regarding Garrett and she did it with Chris regarding Rachael K.  Becca was still engaged to Garrett (who I agree is a jerk, but he was Becca's jerk) and Chris had to walk a tightrope because Rachael K. is still on the show he's getting paid to host.  It's just my own opinion, but I don't think this is ethical in any way.  I can't imagine being put in that position.  I don't imagine most people under that pressure, knowing they were being broadcast, would voice a perfect answer.  

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

It's just my own opinion, but I don't think this is ethical in any way. 

You think he didn't know he'd get asked that question?  Or that Becca didn't expect she'd be asked about Garrett?  Even Becca realized that option to agree to disagree on some issues with her fiance wasn't a good idea which is why they're over.  It did reflect on her.

There was a very simple answer about the Rachael situation.  "It was not a smart choice. I hope she has grown since then.  We'll hear from her after the finale." The fifteen minute rant was his choice. 

I also disagree that Rachel is acting ungrateful for the opportunities The Bachelor gave her.  They also made money off of her.  She fulfilled her duties.  She doesn't have to stay silent when she sees racism.  They hired her knowing she had these critiques about them.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Irlandesa

[Recyclorette]

54 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

You think he didn't know he'd get asked that question?  Or that Becca didn't expect she'd be asked about Garrett?  Even Becca realized that option to agree to disagree on some issues with her fiance wasn't a good idea on some issues which is why they're over.  It did reflect on her.

There was a very simple answer about the Rachael situation.  "It was not a smart choice. I hope she has grown since then.  We'll hear from her after the finale." The fifteen minute rant was his choice. 

I also disagree that Rachel is acting ungrateful for the opportunities The Bachelor gave her.  They also made money off of her.  She fulfilled her duties.  She doesn't have to stay silent when she sees racism.  They hired her knowing she had these critiques about them.

I don't know what Chris or Becca expected from their interactions with Rachel.  Only they do.  It doesn't matter.  Yes, they both bombed when they were blindsided on air by someone they both considered a friend.  Most people would.  I've never said Rachel has to stay silent when she sees racism.  She can say and do whatever she wants.  And she has, with tremendous latitude.  I don't have to agree with her methods, which I fully believe are for drama and attention.

I will say that, if I'm ever in a group of "friends" and someone puts me on the spot to explain even some bad behavior of my husband's, I'll tell them to eff off and ask him.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Recyclorette

[catrice2]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

You think he didn't know he'd get asked that question?  Or that Becca didn't expect she'd be asked about Garrett?  Even Becca realized that option to agree to disagree on some issues with her fiance wasn't a good idea which is why they're over.  It did reflect on her.

There was a very simple answer about the Rachael situation.  "It was not a smart choice. I hope she has grown since then.  We'll hear from her after the finale." The fifteen minute rant was his choice. 

I also disagree that Rachel is acting ungrateful for the opportunities The Bachelor gave her.  They also made money off of her.  She fulfilled her duties.  She doesn't have to stay silent when she sees racism.  They hired her knowing she had these critiques about them.

 OK regardless of the fact that Rachel has been on the show she now acts as a correspondent for extra and part of her duties is to cover the bachelor franchise. Why should she ignore what was being talked about? She also asked him what thought about it which was something Billy Bush or anybody else who was in that seat would have asked as part of the job.  It was his choice to say what he wanted to say and the idea that people are saying she set him up is preposterous and telling. He could have easily said I don't know let her speak for herself.

 This idea that black people need to just be happy to be here and shut up needs to go away. She has more than once said publicly that she thanks the franchise for opportunities what is she supposed to do? If she thinks racism or something else is wrong just not speak on it because she got a job opportunity ?  I am not a Rachel fan and I loathe  the fact that she ever went on this show, but people need to accept the fact that it was not people of colour on reddit that posted tick toks or pictures of the other Rachael and Chris is responsible for his own actions.  The default is to blame minorities for everything but this time you need to direct your anger in other directions.

 Check your news sources- Rachel Lindsay has never asked that Chris Harrison be fired nor did she start that petition.  Far as I know she doesn't have mind control of other people either. I get that people want their Status quo show back (and way of life)  and I personally think POC should leave you to it, but to deny that there has been a problematic behaviours and decisions made on this show is ridiculous.  Long before Rachel was even on the show some contestants tried to sue.  Chris himself has said over and over again pretty much  that they couldn't find a black man who  was "worthy"whatever that means when even on Rachel season alone they had a very educated  and professional man, more than one. Rachel herself was a very calculated choice and if she had not been a lawyer with the judge father she would not have been the lead either.

 Looking at " attractiveness" is certainly not the reason because Tayshia  and Matt are probably the most  physically  attractive leads the franchise has had.

Please don't give me get excuse that they didn't finish very late when just to avoid a person of colour they've gone all the way back to the 11th finisher to get Katie.

 The bachelor knows who their audience is.

 Personally I've never understood the prestige of making a fool of yourself on TV and embarrassing your family but that's just me

 

[catrice2]

2 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

I don't know what Chris or Becca expected from their interactions with Rachel.  Only they do.  It doesn't matter.  Yes, they both bombed when they were blindsided on air by someone they both considered a friend.  Most people would.  I've never said Rachel has to stay silent when she sees racism.  She can say and do whatever she wants.  And she has, with tremendous latitude.  I don't have to agree with her methods, which I fully believe are for drama and attention.

I will say that, if I'm ever in a group of "friends" and someone puts me on the spot to explain even some bad behavior of my husband's, I'll tell them to eff off and ask him.

 This is a word that people use loosely especially in their entertainment industry. Do you really think that Chris Harrison Rachel Lindsay get together and have a bottle of wine together or talk about good times? Absolutely not. To use the word friend especially within the context of that conversation  to try to explain away some of the things that he was saying. Ignoring the fact that she had a job and was acting in the role of a correspondent for extra anybody on the show would have been told to ask the same question considering what was in the news does not strengthen your stance. But let's just say they were friends has anybody on this board defending this crap thought about what it would feel like or what has felt like for your minority contestants who might actually have affection or respect for Chris to sit there and watch him defend racism let alone if he in Rachel were really friends? She did her job he could have just said I don't know but he chose to do something else so who should really be hurt?

 I know that I have been put in the position of explaining what this is to my young niece  Things she didn't even need to know about because she watches the show and I had to address this party. 

And if Becca is OK with Rachel and has accepted her apology why would others stay mad? She realized no one is perfect and grown ups work through pain and disappointment from real friends.

Rachel is not perfect and I don't expect her or Chris to be. 

[Recyclorette]

17 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

 

Rachel is not perfect and I don't expect her or Chris to be. 

Exactly.  You've said you don't watch the show, so I'll fill you in on the fact that EVERY lead and just about every contestant throughout it's history has been dragged through the good, the bad, and the ugly.  Hasn't mattered if they're black, white, red, yellow,  or dipped in platinum and studded with diamonds.  But Rachel Lindsay is off limits?  Got it.

[catrice2]

56 minutes ago, Recyclorette said:

Exactly.  You've said you don't watch the show, so I'll fill you in on the fact that EVERY lead and just about every contestant throughout it's history has been dragged through the good, the bad, and the ugly.  Hasn't mattered if they're black, white, red, yellow,  or dipped in platinum and studded with diamonds.  But Rachel Lindsay is off limits?  Got it.

 I really could care less what other leads have been dragged through the mud about. I am quite sure that they have not been attacked for their race. Understanding is not a strong point for the shows viewers because you believe highly produced and highly edited pieces of film and make whole judgments about people and make them wealthy. I guarantee  you Rachel Lindsay has never gotten a dime of my money.  I've also said that I don't like Rachel and I hate that she went on the show but go right ahead and accuse me of thinking that she's perfect she and doesn't need to be criticised. Obviously you cannot admit that in this situation she was not the aggressor. Chris made a mistake he has to take the consequences of his mistake without blaming that on a black woman.  But go off if it makes you feel better because most people have taken this situation and turned it into Chris against Rachel or us against them and it's pathetic.  You should blame  the news media for all the attention that it is given.  You sound very angry over people that you don't know

[chocolatine]

7 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

When you publicly spring it on someone to explain another's sensitive behavior, without any warning or time to think, that's a setup.  She did it with her "good friend" Becca regarding Garrett and she did it with Chris regarding Rachael K.

CH was fully aware of the Rachael K. situation and knew that he was going to do an interview with Rachel L. It wasn't hard to guess that she would ask him about it, so that was hardly a setup. It's his job as host and executive producer to be prepared to handle such interviews, and he clearly wasn't. I've had a problem with how Rachel L. has treated certain people (e.g. Peter Kraus, Ben from Tayshia's season), but IMO she did nothing wrong in that interview.

[DEL901]

6 hours ago, chocolatine said:

CH was fully aware of the Rachael K. situation and knew that he was going to do an interview with Rachel L. It wasn't hard to guess that she would ask him about it, so that was hardly a setup. It's his job as host and executive producer to be prepared to handle such interviews, and he clearly wasn't. I've had a problem with how Rachel L. has treated certain people (e.g. Peter Kraus, Ben from Tayshia's season), but IMO she did nothing wrong in that interview.

I’d go a step further and speculate that part of the purpose of CH going on Rachel’s podcast WAS to talk about Rachael and try to diffuse the scandal.   Instead, he blew it up by trying to dismiss it as ancient history (2018???) instead of just admitting she was young and oblivious to the meaning of her actions.    He could also have said that he can’t speak for Rachael and only she could talk about what she was thinking (or more likely, not thinking), instead of dismissing Rachel’s POV.   

[waving feather]

If I never hear the phrase "doing the work" or "listening and learning" ever again from these Bachelor nation people, I'd be very glad. Empty words that mean nothing. 

In the real world especially at work, if you said those words, the next question that the boss will ask is "OK great, please list down the work you are doing/ intend to do and quantify that work. And a timeline for it too, thanks."

And for "listening and learning", please list down for the class what you have actually listened and learned and perhaps a periodic assessment to proof you actually learned.

Lol. I'm half joking but the use of these meaningless catch phrases are out of control. And if people demand apology from people who are not actually sorry, be prepared to get such nonsense. 

I wish they'd replace Chris with a new host just so I don't need to see Chris or bachelor nation contestants drag this thing out. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by waving feather

[Recyclorette]

11 minutes ago, waving feather said:

If I never hear the phrase "doing the work" or "listening and learning" ever again from these Bachelor nation people, I'd be very glad. Empty words that mean nothing. 

In the real world especially at work, if you said those words, the next question that the boss will ask is "OK great, please list down the work you are doing/ intend to do and quantify that work. And a timeline for it too, thanks."

And for "listening and learning", please list down for the class what you have actually listened and learned and perhaps a periodic assessment to proof you actually learned.

Lol. I'm half joking but the use of these meaningless catch phrases are out of control. And if people demand apology from people who are not actually sorry, be prepared to get such nonsense. 

I wish either they'd replace Chris with a new host just so I don't need to see Chris or bachelor nation contestants drag this thing out. 

Good points.  Unfortunately, with a reality show casting so many people selected with an eye toward adolescent drama, and then having every iota of their imperfect, immature pasts dug up, it's never going to stop.  This franchise has degraded so far that it will never be a platform for anything serious or positive.  Time for it all to go.

[Diana Berry]

It’s the Bachelor/ Bachelorette not the Rachel Lindsey show.  She’s getting a lot of publicity and money off the whole controversy.  That’s not why I watch the show.  If she really wants to make a difference go back into law.  It’s just a dumb tv show that people enjoy. The people involved have admitted they made a mistake ( judge not lest ye be judged ) and apologized. No one is perfect . No one should lose their job or be harassed.  

Edited March 7, 2021 by Diana Berry

[EllenB]

10 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

It’s the Bachelor/ Bachelorette not the Rachel Lindsey show.  She’s getting a lot of publicity and money off the whole controversy.  That’s not why I watch the show.  If she really wants to make a difference go back into law.  It’s just a dumb tv show that people enjoy. The people involved have admitted they made a mistake ( judge not lest ye be judged ) and apologized. No one is perfect . No one should lose their job or be harassed.  

Admitting a mistake is not the same thing as fixing it.

[Back Atcha]

7 hours ago, EllenB said:

 If she really wants to make a difference go back into law.  

Why do that?  She can get bigger bucks for sitting around talking about the same stuff we do right here--for free!

 

[Back Atcha]

On 3/6/2021 at 9:25 AM, waving feather said:

Lol. I'm half joking but the use of these meaningless catch phrases are out of control. And if people demand apology from people who are not actually sorry, be prepared to get such nonsense. 

Ole`!   These various catch-phrases and psycho-babble are always entertaining.  A new one pops up and all of a sudden, it's everywhere (well..."media-everywhere").   The Bachelor franchise has always been quick to steal a new phrase from some adoring (or not-so) fan and take it as it own.  I'd like to never see Chris Harrison's face again...and never see his name on television or movie credits.  Same with "Bachelor Nation."   Your post, Waving Feather, was spot on!  

Did anyone watch The Bachelor spoof series, "Unreal?"    Perhaps ABC should contact the writers/producers/staff of THAT show to retool the sagging, boring Bachelor franchise.  

[Back Atcha]

On 3/5/2021 at 3:57 PM, Recyclorette said:

I don't know what Chris or Becca expected from their interactions with Rachel.  Only they do.  It doesn't matter.  Yes, they both bombed when they were blindsided on air by someone they both considered a friend. 

I rarely watch the show, so I don't recall who Becca is...but for Chris Harrison to be "blindsided" on an "info-tainment/gossip" show is beyond me.  Was there a specific script?  Was he guaranteed that Rachel would stick to said script?  I doubt it.  Chris has been in spin-management long enough to be able to answer a question truthfully...heartfully.  OR...to demand to review and approve all questions...and "tape" before a program is aired.

On 3/5/2021 at 6:41 PM, catrice2 said:

 This is a word that people use loosely especially in their entertainment industry. Do you really think that Chris Harrison Rachel Lindsay get together and have a bottle of wine together or talk about good times? Absolutely not. To use the word friend especially within the context of that conversation  to try to explain away some of the things that he was saying.

Bravo!  I hear "a friend of the show," too often on various programs.  Sorry...guess I got on a rant.

[call me ishmael]

Maybe I am wrong but I really doubt that Rachel surprised him with that line of questioning.  For several years now the franchise has been getting criticized for its (lack of) contestant vetting and continuing to bring on not only people with dubious social media histories but also ones prone to bullying and the production of conflict.  In particular, it has been criticized in particular for people with social media histories of racist comments.  When CH tried to insist that no one in 2018 would have thought the same way he was defending the show as much as he was protecting Racheal.  As someone above pointed out, all he had to do was say "look she will comment on this.  Please listen to her before you come to any judgment."  Or "she will be commenting on this and we know that she has regrets."  Or any number of other things.  But he didn't do that and Rachel L didn't make him make the choices he did.

Personally, I think that the show(s) need to do a deep rethinking of the way that they are being put together and not only about the question of race.  It used to be that I found parts painful because I felt bad for what the contestants stumbled into.  Or when they so obviously misread cues.  But now it is painful because the whole thing is set up like one of those apocalyptic car race movies of the 1980s where if you didn't win it meant you were left mangled on the road and all the contestants were trying to make sure that everyone else's car exploded.  The only season that wasn't like that was Tayshia's and that's because they got rid of the really bad apples early.  When your villain was Bennett you know they were only going through the motions. 

Now I feel nostalgic for the days when everyone was appalled at how badly Juan Pablo behaved.  The show has responded to almost all criticism by simply nibbling at the edges of the problem.  I don't know if Harrison will ever be back.  But whoever hosts the next season should be hosting a very different show.