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S04.E05: Lowkey Movin' On


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With the block party finally here, Issa is determined to deliver a memorable event, despite some surprises; Tiffany enjoys a break from her baby, Kelli entertains a gullible new boo, and Molly attempts to put a grudge on hold.

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Original air date: 5/10/20

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This blow up isn’t that convincing. Molly doesn’t have a legit reason to be upset but even if she did, she’s been in the corporate world all her career so she wouldn’t go off on Issa right there and then, in front of Andrew and all their friends.

She would at least think about a better time and a way not to escalate — did she really go in planning to have a physical fight?

Andrew and Tiffany tried to calm her down, told her not the right time but she was that mad?  Andrew seemed to be happy to do the favor, liked how he party turned out and the headliner brought the house down, which is probably good for him and for Andrew’s career and his company.

I have to conclude that the notion of yoga making you balanced and chill is overrated if their Sunday sessions led to this.

Kelli from Poppycock, which is in south central London, just a stones throw from Benny Hill.

But when survival instinct kicked in its “nigga I’m from Philly!”

Condola broke up with Lawrence so she also broke up with Issa.

Nate’s been in town all this time, rooming with Andrew.  So why was Issa messing with TSA bae?

Issa and Molly will be cool by the end of the season right?  But will Issa get back with Lawrence again?

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I also had a hard time believing Molly’s blow up and believing she wouldn’t wait until later to say something. The only thing I could think is she saw Issa’s night had been a success, she was jealous about it and this was her moment to do something to cut Issa down to size. Either way, it was beyond wrong. 

I don’t see how they can move past this and in real life they’d stop being cool with each other, but this is show land so I’m sure they’ll eventually come back together. 

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I've been understanding of Molly this season but she was all wrong in this episode.  Does she have an addiction to blowing up relationships?

She's not doing it to her romantic relationship so now she has to do it to her friendship?

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(edited)

So while I've never been a fan of Molly tonight she seemed to be written as an irredeemable villain.  Certainly not a friend. She has zero ground to do what she did and her excuse didn't hold up at all. I'm not sure what I think of the writing this ep. 

I'd had it with her for seeming butthurt that Issa couldn't hang out. Issa was literally working! Imagine if Issa popped up at one of Molly's board meetings with a plate of "free wings" and acted wounded because Molly couldn't set aside solid time right there and then to hang out! 

I was already upset with her last week but this is just over.

Also Nathan's been in town this entire time? What?

Also also about Condola, I don't understand why breaking up with Lawrence means no hanging out with Issa anymore. Wouldn't it actually mean it's easier for the two to be friends now? Yes I remember their conversation at Thanksgiving but it's not as if Issa and Lawrence are back together. 

 

 

Edited by DiabLOL
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(edited)

Wow, Molly literally ruined Issa's event and for what? She ran up on Issa like that woman screwed her man. Issa knew Andrew before Molly was ever in the picture! Now Molly thinks she owns and can police all communications with him however she likes? And the manager *thanked* Andrew for the opportunity, meaning that Issa didn't just do a good job, she killed it. One thing that Issa said that was rude but true, Molly is always looking for an issue. Molly was salty that whole event that it was well run and Issa wasn't desperate for her approval or validation. 

Issa has done a lot of garbage things and Molly had every right to be upset, but this action is beyond the pale for me. I could never forgive anyone for ruining something so professionally important for something so trivial. 

Oh no, looks like Tiff may have PPD. Hope the friends can come together to support her and don't let this fall through the cracks because of this argument. 

Edit: It's also very telling that Molly immediately snapped at Andrew, "you know we aren't cool" upon hearing he helped out. Not "omg I'm so angry because she violated my boundaries". This was about punishing Issa, period.

Edited by rozen
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I really thought Issa and Molly were coming to blows during that fight.  That sounded like straight up hatred between them.  I got why Molly was angry, but she was wrong to bring it up then and there.  It made her look vindictive, like she wanted a reason to start something and had just been waiting.  They really fooled us with the wobble scene, thinking they were cool again.

I like Nathan, but I don't think it matters if he was in town.  Dude disappeared without a trace, so Issa doesn't have to be loyal to him.  After they spoke last season, it sounded like Issa wanted some time to think, not a given that she wanted him back.  

Glad the party was a success and it looked like so much fun.  Andrew was right, you could tell that took a lot of work and dedication.  Hopefully the "gun" incident at the end will be debunked, because this could be the start of something for Issa.  Maybe party planning?

I love Kelli and I could watch her all day.  Especially with Ahmal.  I live for their conversations.

IA with Dear Evette, I'm not sure what to make of Tiffany, either.  A lot of people are speculating PPD, but Tiffany's behavior doesn't seem that off brand.  It just looks like she's bored with motherhood already.  Is that a symptom of PPD?  Derek did say that they weren't ready to have kids yet, so maybe it's all catching up to her. 

So glad Lawrence didn't show up.  Surprised that Daniel didn't but who knows anymore what his role is.  

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Even if I agreed with Molly she was absolutely doing too much.  Issa should have mentioned she went through Andrew to secure Vince Staples but it wasn't enough for an argument that could lead to blows? 

Kelli is my favorite character of all time. She's up there with Maxine Shaw. 

What's happening with Tiffany is interesting and I hope we get just a little more detail about how she's coping being a new mom.

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(edited)
6 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Surprised that Daniel didn't but who knows anymore what his role is.  

I think we're done with Daniel for good.

I hope we're done with Condola. I didn't like that because she and Lawrence broke up, she ghosted Issa professionally. I can believe that Lawrence wouldn't go to the block party if he thought Condola was going to be there (although it was a big enough event that he could have avoided her).

Hi Nanceford! Kendrick Sampson has such a sexy voice.

6 hours ago, Amethyst said:

I love Kelli and I could watch her all day.  Especially with Ahmal.  I live for their conversations.

When Ahmal was like " ... I know, I saw you," I died. And the whole exchange with Kelli's dude who thought Bank of America was a branch of government was gold. (I don't care how cute he is, that would be the moment we parted ways.)

I also laughed at "[sigh] It's a jumpsuit, Andrew" when he called it a leotard, and the lady with the as-yet-unstarted YouTube channel.

I loved the wobble scene. I want to go to a block party! [sobs in self-isolation]

I think there's a PPD storyline coming with Tiffany.

I think Molly was dead wrong. Literally no one, including Andrew, had an issue with Issa. Like, I envision the exchange was like:

I: "Hi Nanceford. My headliner backed out and I know Andrew works with [other artist]. Can you ask him if the artist would be interested in performing at the block party?"

N: "Oh, bet."

A: "Hey Issa. Here's the manager's info. [Artist] is interested. Good luck!"

And that's it! It's not that serious!

Issa has a connection to Andrew via Nathan - that's how Molly met Andrew in the first place. It looks like the artist performing was a boon for Andrew too, which should make Molly happy. I liked that Issa pointed out that Molly wanted her to fail. Your friends should want you to win! Issa was struggling at We Got Y'all, driving Lyft and dealing with her crazy-ass tenants (hi Trina!), and now pulls off something as great as that block party looked, which is a spectacular amount of work (I'm still wondering if Issa made any money doing that though), and Molly has a problem? And even if she did have a problem, bringing it up at the event, loud as hell, was completely foul.

Edited by Empress1
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Bye, Condola.  Not professional at all and not cool.  I knew I didn't care for you for a reason.

Sigh.  Everything is an issue with Molly.  She's exhausting and Andrew should just bounce.

Kelli killed it the whole episode.  

Her man:  "We Wobblin" overseas now?!"

I'm so old.  I didn't know Vince Staples was a real person.  I had to Google him.

 

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I actually like Condola (but I like Tiffany and Lawrence too, and can see why some fans don't). I hope she and Issa remain friends, and she becomes a network for Issa to continue to accomplish her goals.

I think Molly was out of line, and although she is professional, I think this confrontation was on brand for Molly and Issa from what we have seen of the tension in their relationship lately.

I also had to look up the performer to see if he was real.

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Andrew calling Molly's jumpsuit a leotard was so real. Very funny.

Molly's indignation was beyond ridiculous. Her "boundary" was not violated. Her relationship with Andrew had nothing to do with him helping Issa. Andrew didn't even know that Molly had refused to help Issa. She does not own Andrew, and he is allowed to talk to and work with other people, including Issa. I will not be satisfied with a reconciliation between Issa and Molly unless Molly grovels while begging for forgiveness.

The only thing Issa did wrong in the argument was bring up Molly's relationship with Andrew, but she should apologize for that only if Molly apologizes first.

I'm surprised that everyone left Issa there alone, especially Nathan. I know that she said she was okay, but how could she be? They shouldn't have even asked, "Are you sure you're okay?" They should have just stayed with her.

I hope that Andrew drops Molly now that he has seen how unreasonable and nasty she can be.

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(edited)

A+ for Issa's Waiting to Exhale shirt!

Kelli pretending to have an English accent and not knowing what tacos were cracked me up on principle, but it also made me laugh because many years ago when my friend moved to London, he begged me to FedEx a burrito to him because there was no Mexican food to be found there and he was dying without it. I didn't think that Kelli's ruse could get any funnier and then Darnell explained the TWO branches of American government and I was cackling.

I thought it was sweet of Andrew, who barely knows Issa at all, to try to smooth things over for Molly and Issa. To me, that says that he wanted Molly to be happy and he knew that she needed to patch things up with her best friend. 

Once again, Molly was being petty. She was more than willing to leave Issa dangling in the wind with no headlining act, which was bad enough, but when Issa contacted Nathan and Andrew was totally happy to send ONE EMAIL to help her out of a jam, Molly interpreted this as Issa stabbing her in the back. And then she had the nerve to accuse Issa of being the one full of drama. Who's being dramatic now?

And for the record, when Molly does what Issa did for work (ask a friend of a friend for a favor), it's called networking. But when Issa does it, somehow that's considered using people?

To be honest, I was already over Molly's attitude earlier when she got pissy because Issa had to leave when her headliner finally arrived. Bitch, she is at work. She can't just drop stuff like that because you want to hang out. 

The culmination of all this Molly/Issa friction made me fully believe that Molly wanted to see Issa fail and expected her to fail.

What has really frustrated me this season is that where they are now is the result of Issa cracking her usual jokes and Molly suddenly getting offended by the same comments that didn't bother her before (and wouldn't bother her if Tiffany or Kelli said them). Molly would get offended and then Issa would pick up on it and get uncomfortable because she didn't understand why Molly was mad/offended. This happened over and over until they both got uncomfortable being around each other. The only thing that I saw change was Molly's reaction to Issa. What Issa was saying didn't suddenly become harsher or meaner. And if Molly was THAT upset about it, all she had to do was say, "I know you're kidding but I'm trying really hard to make real changes and it bothers me when you say stuff like that." But by not speaking up, she let it fester and grow.

I really like Andrew but he deserves better than Molly's trifling ass. As much as I would enjoy seeing Andrew more, I hope he dumps her and finds someone who is less of a hypocritical self involved drama queen (honestly, I'm still not over her acting like she had the right of way with that parking space last week).

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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So if Issa had gone to Nathan initially to ask Andrew for help, Molly probably would have been mad Issa didn’t ask her instead.   I want to root for Molly, but she’s making it so hard to do....   

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1 hour ago, mrsbagnet said:

The only thing Issa did wrong in the argument was bring up Molly's relationship with Andrew, but she should apologize for that only if Molly apologizes first.

I don't think that was wrong since the entire basis of the argument was Issa trading on Molly's relationship with Andrew.  Molly  said 'you got my man to do you a favor.'  Molly has no memory.  When Issa was talking about all the important people Condola had contacts with in Ep1 for the initial mixer, Molly literally said 'I am inviting Andrew and he works at LiveNation so you know important people too.'

As others have pointed out, Issa leveraged her relationship with Nathan to reach out to Andrew.  She neatly removed Molly from the equation, just as Molly had requested.  She respected Molly's boundary.

I swear that argument is still triggering me.  LOL.  Molly made it a flaw to need a favor.  And claimed that Issa was using people.  When in fact the type of work Issa is trying to embark upon is all about favors --  or rather networking.  Issa literally can't do what she needs to do without creating and using contacts.  Hell, Tiffany came through and used a client of hers to get the alcohol wholesale.  And yet to Molly that equals 'using'.  Molly, for all her education, acts like she is new.

When Molly said 'I love her but I don't like her.'  I legit wondered where that came from.  They were in a great place at the start of this season.  From what I can tell Molly's issues with Issa comes from three places:  Issa not being available to her like she has always been, Issa having a small glow up, and Condola. 

I my opinion, Molly had not been a good friend to Issa this season.  She was the only one, in the first ep, to NOT tell Issa she was proud of what she was accomplishing.  Ahmal, Tiffany and Kelli all did.  Molly just grudgingly agreed when Issa was pumping herself up. 

I have always liked Molly and even understood her relationship issues, but damn, I am not really digging her at all this season so far.

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12 hours ago, DearEvette said:

And I hate that people were comforting and apologizing to  Molly when she single-handedly shit on Issa's night and made it end on a sour note.  She was wrong.  Just wrong.

Yes! Molly caused all of this drama, ruined Issa's event, and she's being consoled? 

We all called this from Day 1, but it was evident that Molly just wanted Issa to fail. Issa pulled off the block party, and now, she's one step closer to having her shit together and no longer being the fuck up of the group. Molly can't handle that. Molly was truly a trash panda last night.

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I really like Andrew but he deserves better than Molly's trifling ass. As much as I would enjoy seeing Andrew more, I hope he dumps her and finds someone who is less of a hypocritical self involved drama queen

Agreed. I'd miss seeing his face, but if he wants to stick around after that display, then Molly is truly a lucky woman. 

It seems as if the show is going down the PPD route with Tiffany, but I dunno if that's really what it is, either. I watched The Michelle Obama "Becoming" documentary over the weekend, and during her interview, she mentioned that she was a "box checker." She went to her dream school, went to law school, got a great job, etc. That's the vibe I get from Tiffany. She went to a great school, has a good job, got married, had a baby, etc. She's checking things off of a list because that's what women are supposed to do, but these are milestones that she doesn't really care about, it's just the supposed trajectory of a woman. 

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Imma need to read these comments so I can understand what Molly's hypothetical point was. 

As suspected, the "favor" wasn't a big deal at all and it never even dawned on Andrew that Molly was withholding it because it would mess with their relationship.  He didn't even tell her he did it.  

The only person who was shook by Andrew helping issa was Molly.  And I think she made herself look a damn fool in confronting issa about it.  

I'm annoyed that andrew or anyone apologized to her.  The request came from Nathan.  The favor was to Nathan.  Andrew can't do favors for issa on behalf of another friend?  Huh?  

If Andrew stays with Molly after that display, he is a fool, but a keeper.  They haven't been together that long, and if this is how she treats her best friend that is not a good sign.  And this is how Molly treats her best friend over what?  Not just laying down and accepting certain failure?  

In the moment Kellie should have made sure Molly was okay.  But after she has had a minute to cool off it should be made very, very clear...by everyone, that Molly was 100% in the wrong here.  I don't even see a logical leg for her to stand on.  

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10 hours ago, Adgirl said:

Even if I agreed with Molly she was absolutely doing too much.  Issa should have mentioned she went through Andrew to secure Vince Staples but it wasn't enough for an argument that could lead to blows? 

Kelli is my favorite character of all time. She's up there with Maxine Shaw. 

What's happening with Tiffany is interesting and I hope we get just a little more detail about how she's coping being a new mom.

Why?  Molly wanted her relationship with Andrew to be kept completely separate from issas block party.  Telling Molly involves her and implicates her relationship with Andrew.  This way the favor came from Nance and Molly knew nothing of it.  

If Molly wants her relationship to be off limits and not used for favors than she got her wish.  It was issas friendship with Nance that secured the favor.....which was no big deal. 

If issa had made a big ask, like for marrow or a kidney, even if nance asked for the favor I could see maybe arguing that Molly and issas friendship was a factor.  But this clearly was a small favor and Andrew was asked by his friend in behalf of someone he had already met.  

So, I don't see why issa would be obligated to tell Molly anything.  

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1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And for the record, when Molly does what Issa did for work (ask a friend of a friend for a favor), it's called networking. But when Issa does it, somehow that's considered using people?

Yeah, I don’t know how Molly is a grown-ass lawyer who doesn’t understand networking. She got all the way through college, law school, and two firm jobs and is still tripping. Like @DearEvette said, if Issa wants a career in event planning, that’s VERY heavy on relationships. Nobody makes it alone - that’s part of why I was so mad at Molly for fucking up her relationships at work. Like 90% of the lawyers at both Molly’s firms, especially the bigger whiter one, got their jobs through networking. “I went to law school with [partner], let me call him for [xyz].”

Frankly, if I’m Andrew, at some point I’d have asked Molly “How’s Issa’s event going? Let me know if she needs any help with [area of expertise].” That’s what people do! But Molly wouldn’t have relayed that request.

Upon rewatch, I noticed that Vince Staples’ manager thanked Andrew for the hookup and said “You were right,” which means Andrew probably talked up the event as a good opportunity for Vince. Andrew was out here championing Issa’s event more than Molly.

(Shallow: Andrew is physically affectionate with Molly in a way I like. I like that they hold hands, that he has his arm around her when they sit together, that he kind of leans into her when they talk.)

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1 hour ago, After7Only said:

So if Issa had gone to Nathan initially to ask Andrew for help, Molly probably would have been mad Issa didn’t ask her instead.   I want to root for Molly, but she’s making it so hard to do....   

Molly seems to have some weird rule that any favors he does are her favors.  They are not married and just became exclusive.  Like girl, no.  

Not to mention that having set up Vince staples with a great opportunity was good for Andrew's business relationships. 

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I read some of the comments before watching the show and was 100% prepared to be Team Issa on this. Now that I’ve watched it nope, Issa ain’t shit. Molly aint shit either, and I dislike her more Issa, but I wouldn’t want to be friends with either. 

I don’t think Molly withheld Andrews help because she wanted Issa to fail. I think she knew Issa wasn’t responsible, likely screwed up the Schoolboy Q connect (much like the water bill) and didn’t take Molly and Andrews relationship seriously enough to care if her continued irresponsibility hurt Andrew. I also think she’s realized the huge extent to which she’s enabled Issa and wanted Issa, as a grown ass woman, to stand on her own two feet. For once. 
 

What Issa did was messy and sneaky, hence the “I don’t really fuck with Molly no more” comment to Nathan. She didn’t care about the impact to her friendship, so she proceeded anyway. The way Andrew spoke, it sounded like this was a favor given to Issa because of Molly, not because of Nathan. So Issa was still capitalizing her friendship with Molly, even though she’s actively avoided having the real convo Molly has been trying to have with her. (Which to me, is so foul. You can’t have the tough talk with me, but you can call me and ask for stuff? User.)

Daniel had Issas number in season 2.  Issa is a user.  That’s why she couldn’t call him. She’s just so used to getting away with it by being the lovable fuck up, by widening her big eyes, by needing “one little favor” that she doesn’t see her own deep sense of entitlement.

For Molly - you had a fair point, but per usual, had horrible impulse control and picked the wrong time and place. This friendship is over now and your actions tonight are a huge part of that. And a huge way for Issa to play the victim and act like she just doesn’t know why drama follows her.

And to the writers - I see the shit you’re pulling. You hide Issas faults by routinely making Molly the bigger villain in the same episode. No one likes Molly, but trust and believe many of us see right through Issa.

 

 

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3 hours ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

Bye, Condola.  Not professional at all and not cool.  I knew I didn't care for you for a reason.

Sigh.  Everything is an issue with Molly.  She's exhausting and Andrew should just bounce.

Kelli killed it the whole episode.  

Her man:  "We Wobblin" overseas now?!"

I'm so old.  I didn't know Vince Staples was a real person.  I had to Google him.

 

I have heard of Vince staples, but never heard anything from him.  That's how I knew he was a big deal, because I never hear about anybody (I was only months ahead of the Lizzo bandwagon).  

Kelli was hilarious.  "I see your shirt, but I don't see you" and you can tell she won't be able to hang with the dimbulb very long.  Stay in school!  And pay attention when you're there!

I was annoyed with condola too.  I don't expect that behavior from anyone who is about their business.  The first words out of condola's mouth should have been an apology, not something about how she is surprised she even made it.  Messy, messy, messy.  

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(edited)
13 minutes ago, felicity porter said:

I read some of the comments before watching the show and was 100% prepared to be Team Issa on this. Now that I’ve watched it nope, Issa ain’t shit. Molly aint shit either, and I dislike her more Issa, but I wouldn’t want to be friends with either. 

I don’t think Molly withheld Andrews help because she wanted Issa to fail. I think she knew Issa wasn’t responsible, likely screwed up the Schoolboy Q connect (much like the water bill) and didn’t take Molly and Andrews relationship seriously enough to care if her continued irresponsibility hurt Andrew. I also think she’s realized the huge extent to which she’s enabled Issa and wanted Issa, as a grown ass woman, to stand on her own two feet. For once. 
 

What Issa did was messy and sneaky, hence the “I don’t really fuck with Molly no more” comment to Nathan. She didn’t care about the impact to her friendship, so she proceeded anyway. The way Andrew spoke, it sounded like this was a favor given to Issa because of Molly, not because of Nathan. So Issa was still capitalizing her friendship with Molly, even though she’s actively avoided having the real convo Molly has been trying to have with her. (Which to me, is so foul. You can’t have the tough talk with me, but you can call me and ask for stuff? User.)

Daniel had Issas number in season 2.  Issa is a user.  That’s why she couldn’t call him. She’s just so used to getting away with it by being the lovable fuck up, by widening her big eyes, by needing “one little favor” that she doesn’t see her own deep sense of entitlement.

For Molly - you had a fair point, but per usual, had horrible impulse control and picked the wrong time and place. This friendship is over now and your actions tonight are a huge part of that. And a huge way for Issa to play the victim and act like she just doesn’t know why drama follows her.

And to the writers - I see the shit you’re pulling. You hide Issas faults by routinely making Molly the bigger villain in the same episode. No one likes Molly, but trust and believe many of us see right through Issa.

 

 

I don't see it that way at all.  Didn't Nathan (Nance?) ask about Molly?  I don't remember issa bringing up the topic. 

Oh yeah, he said Andrew was at Molly's and then issa said that Molly and she had been in conflict and that she didn't fuck with Molly anymore.  I saw it more as issa venting. It didn't seem strategic since I believe in a previous episode she saw that Nathan had made a comment of some sort on social media so he was on her mind.  They were both up late.  She didn't stalk her or go out of her way to find him 

The way Andrew spoke made it clear, IMO, that it was a small favor that he would do for anyone.  Including his friend, who asked.  He never mentioned it to Molly because he wasn't doing her a favor.  He just couldn't see any logical basis for her to be offended that he incidentally helped her friend.  No one should be able to foresee that doing a favor for your friend that incidentally helps your girlfriends best friend is going to be a problem.  

Even for all Molly's talk, I don't think Andrew understood how invested Molly was in issa's failure. She was at the point of begrudgingly accepting that the whole thing wasn't an unmitigated disaster.  

Andrew doesn't seem like the sort that would have held issas messiness against anyone.  Not his friend and not his girlfriend.  The same way he seemed like the guy who didn't think of this as an earth moving favor, but as a matter of sending a small email with a good opportunity.  

I don't even think Andrew brokered the deal.  If issa was a messy mess, that would have been evident in her dealings with staples and his team and then caveat emptour (that spelling is wrong). 

It sounds like he just told staples manager about it, which would have gotten him to look at it.  It was akin to making an introduction.  

The only person who disrespected Molly's relationship with Andrew....was Molly.  

Edited by RealReality
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34 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I don't see it that way at all.  Didn't Nathan (Nance?) ask about Molly?  I don't remember issa bringing up the topic. 

Oh yeah, he said Andrew was at Molly's and then issa said that Molly and she had been in conflict and that she didn't fuck with Molly anymore.  I saw it more as issa venting. It didn't seem strategic since I believe in a previous episode she saw that Nathan had made a comment of some sort on social media so he was on her mind.  They were both up late.  She didn't stalk her or go out of her way to find him 

I’m happy to agree to disagree and I honestly think most people see it as you do - Molly is an asshole for not helping Issa and an even bigger asshole for the stunt she pulled. 
 

Issa had said Nathan was on her mind, and SHE was the one to reach out with the Instagram DM. It wasn’t serendipity that they talked - it was an intentional reach out to with the hopes of getting to a certain goal. Lisa Issa, have a hard time believing that after Molly wouldn’t connect you with Andrew, you decide to hit up your ex, who is friends with him, over DM, and oops! now you have exactly what you needed from Andrew.

 

I do think it was highly intentionally and not unlike how she used Daniel. She was done with them until they could serve a purpose. I’ll be curious to see if Nathan's around in future episodes. 

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(edited)
4 minutes ago, felicity porter said:

I’m happy to agree to disagree and I honestly think most people see it as you do - Molly is an asshole for not helping Issa and an even bigger asshole for the stunt she pulled. 
 

Issa had said Nathan was on her mind, and SHE was the one to reach out with the Instagram DM. It wasn’t serendipity that they talked - it was an intentional reach out to with the hopes of getting to a certain goal. Lisa Issa, have a hard time believing that after Molly wouldn’t connect you with Andrew, you decide to hit up your ex, who is friends with him, over DM, and oops! now you have exactly what you needed from Andrew.

 

I do think it was highly intentionally and not unlike how she used Daniel. She was done with them until they could serve a purpose. I’ll be curious to see if Nathan's around in future episodes. 

If her intention was always to use nathan to get the Andrew she would have done that before asking for Rolodexs from dead family members and being on the cusp of asking Beyonce for a personal favor.  

If her intention was always to go through Nathan to get to Andrew she wouldn't have let herself get that desperate. 

She was doing all that after Molly said no, when she could have easily reached out through Nathan. If her intention was to be sneaky by going through Nathan, she could have easily called him before she thought of reaching out to Beyonce.  

But, she clearly had his phone number and didn't reach out.   So, I don't think issa was doing anything nefarious.  

As for Nathan sticking around, I wouldn't make anything of that either way.  She reached out to an old friend late night, they chatted, he asked a small favor on her behalf.  Now they have to be besties forever?  That's a lot to expect from asking a relatively small favor.  

Edited by RealReality
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(edited)

Issa said that Nathan asked if he could help with anything and that's when she asked him to talk to Andrew. The initial contact came from Nathan. I would consider that taking an opportunity, not going behind Molly's back.

On 5/11/2020 at 12:17 PM, DearEvette said:

I don't think that was wrong since the entire basis of the argument was Issa trading on Molly's relationship with Andrew.  Molly  said 'you got my man to do you a favor.' 

I see your point. Molly's reason for refusing to help was that she didn't want it interfering in her relationship with Andrew. Issa was saying that if the relationship with Andrew got messed up, it would be because of something Molly did, not because of Issa.

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Maybe I am a tad messy (don't think I am), but I don't see anything wrong if Issa had called Nathan (who ghosted her), because her back was against the wall, for a favor that her best friend (rightly or wrongly) could not provide. 

I agree that Nathan offered though.

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23 minutes ago, felicity porter said:

Issa had said Nathan was on her mind, and SHE was the one to reach out with the Instagram DM. It wasn’t serendipity that they talked - it was an intentional reach out to with the hopes of getting to a certain goal.

In the last episode, before her headliner dropped out, Nathan called Issa and left a voice mail.  He said that Andrew told him about the block party and he was happy for her.

When her headliner dropped out, she began to desperately call people even about to directly message artists like Beyonce and Mustard.  But then she realized they didn't know her so she began going through her contacts to reach people through other people.  Even then, she didn't call Nathan right back.

The previous episode took place a month before the block party. This episode starts the night before the block party.  Since Vince was booked as her headliner and they had his rider details, that means sometime in the interim Nathan hooked her up.   So her DM to him at the start of this episode was after everything was a done deal. 

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43 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I don't see it that way at all.  Didn't Nathan (Nance?) ask about Molly?  I don't remember issa bringing up the topic. 

Oh yeah, he said Andrew was at Molly's and then issa said that Molly and she had been in conflict and that she didn't fuck with Molly anymore.  I saw it more as issa venting. It didn't seem strategic since I believe in a previous episode she saw that Nathan had made a comment of some sort on social media so he was on her mind.  They were both up late.  She didn't stalk her or go out of her way to find him 

The way Andrew spoke made it clear, IMO, that it was a small favor that he would do for anyone.  Including his friend, who asked.  He never mentioned it to Molly because he wasn't doing her a favor.  He just couldn't see any logical basis for her to be offended that he incidentally helped her friend.  No one should be able to foresee that doing a favor for your friend that incidentally helps your girlfriends best friend is going to be a problem.  

Even for all Molly's talk, I don't think Andrew understood how invested Molly was in issa's failure. She was at the point of begrudgingly accepting that the whole thing wasn't an unmitigated disaster.  

Andrew doesn't seem like the sort that would have held issas messiness against anyone.  Not his friend and not his girlfriend.  The same way he seemed like the guy who didn't think of this as an earth moving favor, but as a matter of sending a small email with a good opportunity.  

I don't even think Andrew brokered the deal.  If issa was a messy mess, that would have been evident in her dealings with staples and his team and then caveat emptour (that spelling is wrong). 

It sounds like he just told staples manager about it, which would have gotten him to look at it.  It was akin to making an introduction.  

The only person who disrespected Molly's relationship with Andrew....was Molly.  

Right re: the bolded (I mean, I agree with the whole thing!). My guess is Andrew emailed the manager like "My friend is doing this event and I think it would be a good opportunity for Vince because [reasons]. You interested?" And the manager said yes, Andrew connected him with Issa, and then Issa made her pitch. At that point it's all between Issa and the manager. I don't know what Andrew's job is but if he works directly with talent (which he appears to do), he makes these kinds of introductions all the time. He made it clear that this ask was a non-issue.

1 minute ago, Enigma X said:

Maybe I am a tad messy (don't think I am), but I don't see anything wrong if Issa had called Nathan (who ghosted her), because her back was against the wall, for a favor that her best friend (rightly or wrongly) could not provide. 

I agree that Nathan offered though.

Yeah. I wouldn't have reached out to him if he had stayed ghost, but since HE re-opened the lines of communication with that voicemail, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying "Since you asked if I need help, I actually do need help." (I'm trying to get better at asking for help.) I know I keep harping on the networking thing, but putting an event together of this size requires tremendous resources - I actually don't think Issa involved her friends enough. I'd have asked Molly to look over all the contracts and Kelli to review the budget from the beginning.

59 minutes ago, felicity porter said:

I don’t think Molly withheld Andrews help because she wanted Issa to fail. I think she knew Issa wasn’t responsible, likely screwed up the Schoolboy Q connect (much like the water bill) and didn’t take Molly and Andrews relationship seriously enough to care if her continued irresponsibility hurt Andrew. I also think she’s realized the huge extent to which she’s enabled Issa and wanted Issa, as a grown ass woman, to stand on her own two feet. For once. 

How has Molly enabled Issa, and enabled her to do what? (Sincere question.)

When we met Issa, she was working full-time and in a long-term relationship. She wasn't making much money but that's a given in the nonprofit world and she said in the pilot that she worked in nonprofits because she liked giving back. It seems to me like she made a choice to do that work, recognized that she wasn't going to make much, and lived accordingly. She didn't appear to be hitting up her friends for money. When Issa and Lawrence broke up and she couldn't afford to stay in the apartment, Issa turned down Molly's offer to stay with Molly and got herself into her current place by getting the property manager job. Before she realized she had to move out, she started Lyfting on top of her full-time job to earn more money. I don't think anyone supported her cheating on Lawrence - the group remaining friends with her afterward isn't an indication that they thought it was a good thing to do. 

I can see your point about Issa not taking Molly and Andrew's relationship seriously - she does make the leap to "did y'all break up?" as soon as any small glitch is presented. 

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I think this Issa vs. Molly rift is made up, to have tension for this season, a season-long arc, which should probably be settled by the end.

One of the best things about the show from the beginning is their friendship so it would be surprising if they made this a permanent rift.

It's unimaginable that Molly would be off the show or they never interact again, though if they don't hang out with each other, there would really not be much of a reason for her to be on the show.

But the suggestion that Molly doesn't want to see Issa succeed is interesting.  That is a real thing among people's relationship, that they can be friends as long as one doesn't become as or more successful than the other.

Again, it would be surprising if they went there.  Molly hasn't shown that kind of schadenfreude in previous seasons.  And it would be almost impossible to recover if that is the way they thought.

Would be tough if awkward black girl first lost her man and then her girl.

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Damn, Molly was all kinds of wrong.  She said She didn't want to ask Andrew for help and Issa respected it.   She didnt say Andrew was off limits and Issa asked Nathan to hook her up.  Issa didn't do anything wrong.  Only thing she could have done was give Molly a heads up that she used another contact to reach out to Andrew, but she shouldn't have to.  If I was Issa, I would have such a hard time moving forward with her.  

I did wonder how Issa got such a good headliner when she had none the week before and well, the show answered that.  

Issa should definitely be done with Condola personally and professionally.  To ghost someoene who was your partner for a huge event is not acceptable.  

I am surprised that Lawrence didn't show up to the Block Party.   I expectes to see him show up and then see Condola watching them chatting.  I feel like Issa and Lawrence are moving back to one another and it's only a matter of time.  

I love Kelli. She seems super fun even when she has drama.  I want to hang out with her all day long.  

Poor Tiffany.  I think that people often assume that all women just fall stinkin in love with their babies when they are born, but not always.  

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Word to your entire post @ElectricBoogaloo.

I was a fan of Condola's, but what she pulled with Issa was not fucking cool.  If you're working together, just be professional long enough to get to the end and then pull whatever bullshit you want.  That's one of my pet peeves.  

2 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

It seems as if the show is going down the PPD route with Tiffany, but I dunno if that's really what it is, either. I watched The Michelle Obama "Becoming" documentary over the weekend, and during her interview, she mentioned that she was a "box checker." She went to her dream school, went to law school, got a great job, etc. That's the vibe I get from Tiffany. She went to a great school, has a good job, got married, had a baby, etc. She's checking things off of a list because that's what women are supposed to do, but these are milestones that she doesn't really care about, it's just the supposed trajectory of a woman. 

I also am not sure that it's PPD.  I agree with you that Tiff is a box checker.  Even more so, I think Tiff's expectations about having a baby were all covered in love and cuteness and rainbows.  She wasn't prepared for the realities that come with motherhood - the long days being stuck at home (probably by herself) and sleepless nights, the exhaustion, the constant cleanup, the endless crying, etc.  It wasn't at all what she expected or wanted, and she can't return the baby.  

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I'm so proud of Issa and happy that her hard work paid off. (I feel like I'm her friend. lol!)

Nathan is FINE fine. 

Kelli is a trip, I love her. "Is it a knife? Is it a wallet? This is my life!"

Molly just couldn't let Issa have her day. She's so self-centered. And what the hell is Andrew apologizing for? I feel like in real life, this friendship would be done-done. But I'm sure the show will give them the opportunity to talk it out; though I don't think their friendship will ever be what it was again. 

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Everything was going so well, the block party was so much fun and Issa was doing so well...and then Molly and her drama strikes. I have spent a lot of the Molly vs. Issa cold war (that just get really hot) siding more with Issa, but also understanding Molly and that they were both making bad choices, but tonight I was totally team Issa. Even if Molly was pissed that Issa asked for Andrews help, for whatever reason, she should have said something later, and not ran up on Issa screaming at her in public at her own event like she just found out that Issa slept with her boyfriend, stole and wrecked her car, and kicked her puppy. I cant even totally figure out what Mollys problem is or what this "betrayal" was, so I am left assuming that either Molly is so selfish that she sees her boyfriend as "hers" and none of her friends can even make eye contact with him, or she really does really watch Isaa to remain the most immature and messy of their friend group, maybe so that Molly never has to worry about being the messy one? Or Molly really does just love the drama. She really did come in like she was hoping to find a hot mess, and was a bit disappointed to see everything going well, then she seemed to be warming up and loosening up, and then shit hit the fan.

I mean, Issa totally did exactly what Molly asked right? Molly didn't want to ask Andrew to help Issa because she thought that would be mixing professional and personal too much, so Issa, who knows Andrew independently of being Molly's boyfriend, asked him directly to give her a hand finding someone who might be interested in headlining, a guy he knew said yes, and that was that. It was one presumably short email, and it all worked out for everyone...except for Molly, who finds this horribly offensive and a shocking betrayal because...she has never heard of networking I guess. This is totally normal, I feel like people ask their friends and acquaintances and co-workers to do stuff like this pretty frequently, give them a name or a number, help get their name bumped up, send an email asking if a friend of a friend might be interested in getting involved with something, people need people, nobody makes it on their own, especially when your trying to do this on your own like Issa and dont have a ton of connections. You have to use the ones you got. Especially in something like the music or event planning industry, which is very heavy on knowing the right people and relationship building and calling on favors and such, its very important to have contacts, what Issa did is so normal, that nobody even really mentioned it because presumably no one thought to. 

In fact, wasn't that a big part of the reason behind this whole block party? People from their community supporting each others businesses and their success? Isn't that kind of what networking is? 

It sucks that this ended on such a sour note, because the block party was so much fun! It was a bit concerning at first, light turn out, lame opening acts (also selling purses in the back!) extremely mediocre press coverage, but things got better, the crowds got bigger, the acts got better, and by nighttime it seemed like everyone was having a total blast. It looked like it all really came together with one big Wobble of victory, it seems like Issa really has a knack for event planning, hopefully she can continue with it. 

Kelli and her fake British accent was seriously cracking me up. "Oh are these tacos? Ello Ello?" Luckily she found the perfect guy to actually buy her just slightly flawed story. Oh yes, the Bank of America! 

I dont think that Molly and Issa are over forever, but its going to take some serious work to get them back as friends after this. I mean, holy crap Molly, Issa asked if he would send an email for her, not co-sign a loan or begin a start up.

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It feels like there has been more Ahmal this season, and I'm glad. I love his unexplained animosity with Kelli and his weird bond with Tiffany.

It's magical how much the show's universe has expanded so that side or background characters are still completely realized. In this ep I think I laughed most at Ahmal and Kelli, and dumbass Darnell thinking the Bank of America checks and balances the Presidential branch of government. Oh, and Derek yelling at those kids because he's tired, and the return of Thug Yoda. I lol'd at Bobby and Bobbi too.

Condola is extremely wack for the way she handled things. You broke up with Lawrence; you didn't break up with Issa or this project you've been tangled up in since the beginning. Be an adult, be a professional, talk to people, and get your job done. 

Molly is such a hater, in general. Issa had the right of it when she called her miserable.

I was glad for Issa getting to experience the moments of pride and joy she did get when the block party was humming like it was supposed to and the black folks finally started streaming in. I'm a complete homebody, but #intheseunprecedentedtimes as the wobble went on I found myself wanting to go out and meet the people.

In other news, if anybody knows any single IRL Andrews, please feel free to contact me.

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1 hour ago, Lois Sandborne said:

It feels like there has been more Ahmal this season, and I'm glad. I love his unexplained animosity with Kelli and his weird bond with Tiffany.

It's magical how much the show's universe has expanded so that side or background characters are still completely realized. In this ep I think I laughed most at Ahmal and Kelli, and dumbass Darnell thinking the Bank of America checks and balances the Presidential branch of government. Oh, and Derek yelling at those kids because he's tired, and the return of Thug Yoda. I lol'd at Bobby and Bobbi too.

Condola is extremely wack for the way she handled things. You broke up with Lawrence; you didn't break up with Issa or this project you've been tangled up in since the beginning. Be an adult, be a professional, talk to people, and get your job done. 

Molly is such a hater, in general. Issa had the right of it when she called her miserable.

I was glad for Issa getting to experience the moments of pride and joy she did get when the block party was humming like it was supposed to and the black folks finally started streaming in. I'm a complete homebody, but #intheseunprecedentedtimes as the wobble went on I found myself wanting to go out and meet the people.

In other news, if anybody knows any single IRL Andrews, please feel free to contact me.

I had to rewind thug Yoda just to listen for all the B's.

He is so committed, no one had a fake name that started with any other consonant.  I didn't expect a "Chris" or a "Cedric" but I was thinking maybe a "Darryl" or "Lamar" or "Damon". NOTHING!

And yes, love the secondary characters.  I like that they are fleshing out Tiff a bit and I love Kelli.  Love Ahmad, love their unexplained feud.  I even like the tenant (Trisha? Trina?).  

Nathan is fine like wine, and I normally don't even go for that aesthetic of the pretty boy with the green eyes.  

Edited by RealReality
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5 hours ago, felicity porter said:

I don’t think Molly withheld Andrews help because she wanted Issa to fail. I think she knew Issa wasn’t responsible, likely screwed up the Schoolboy Q connect (much like the water bill) and didn’t take Molly and Andrews relationship seriously enough to care if her continued irresponsibility hurt Andrew. I also think she’s realized the huge extent to which she’s enabled Issa and wanted Issa, as a grown ass woman, to stand on her own two feet. For once. 

I just want to issue a disclaimer that I thought Molly was dead wrong.  She should never have confronted Issa at the event; she should have left if she was so in her feelings.  And she realizes if she’s mad at Issa for “stabbing [her] in the back,” her logic needs to extend to accusing Andrew of stabbing her in the back too, right?

But.  But.  This show is written so well, that when I picked my jaw up off the floor, I realized the contrarian in me, the devil’s advocate, could theoretically make a case for Molly, and it’s in line with the post quoted above, and I just want to explore that a little to see where this line of thinking could go.

If Molly is in a committed relationship with Andrew at this point (last we heard they were “exclusive”; I’m assuming they moved on down the line to boyfriend and girlfriend by the time of the block party), does Molly get to have separation between church and state with her friend and her man?  Does she get to say, in her head, “I love Issa, but she’s messy as hell” and “I love Andrew, and I want to protect him”? 

Just because everything did go right doesn’t mean it was definitely going to go right.  What if Andrew had extended himself for Issa, and it came back to bite him in the ass professionally?  Would Molly still have no cause for complaint?  Because I’m not sure we can make an outcome-oriented determination as to whether this was ok.  What if it had gotten screwed up?

I think it’s a really good question, and super interesting, because, as everyone is saying up thread, part of Issa’s job is networking.  Is Molly allowed to make someone off limits?  Could she make her mother or her brother off-limits to Issa?  If so, why wouldn’t that extend to her boyfriend?  I am sincerely wondering.  

I just know that if my cousin came to me and asked me if my husband could FaceTime with her so that my husband could give her poker pointers for an upcoming tournament, but I said no to my cousin, because I don’t especially like her and I think she’s a user, even though I love her because she’s my cousin...would I have no cause for complaint if she heard my “no” and had someone else ask him to FaceTime with her, and they FaceTimed a few times and nothing bad came out of it and I found out about it?  (I’m trying to make this line of thinking as similar to Insecure as I can make my life).

I think I would be very angry at that cousin on principle (and my husband, if he knew I said no, because that’s going behind backs).  Would I have that right, or would I just be an asshole?  (I’m completely aware of the fact that some of my emotionally driven thoughts are positively assholian, which is why I don’t always express them).  I’ve never been in this situation before, so I don’t know what I would feel.  I think I would feel slighted, but I might be wrong.

Is there a fundamental difference between spouses and significant others when it comes to these questions?  Because it would still leave me with a bad taste in my mouth if he and I were unmarried and the same thing happened.  I mean, at what point does personal agency come into it—aka Issa’s right to communicate and ask for favors—and at what point is it disrespectful because one person in the couple spoke for the couple?  

I think the fact that Issa knew Andrew independently of Molly, through Nathan, is a factor.  

I asked my husband if he thought there was an argument to be made in Molly’s favor, and he said that when Molly said she wasn’t going to ask Andrew, it was implied that Molly didn’t want Issa to ask Andrew about it, and he would think it was a little weird for Issa to find “other channels” to get to Andrew.  He said if he wanted to use my boss’s boat and I declined to ask my boss about the boat, he wouldn’t go to my co-workers and try to get them to ask for same. 

This is just to explore the other side.  I think Molly was wrong, should have left, and should have been mad at Andrew if she was going to be mad at Issa, but is there anything to be said for Molly’s side?  She might be 5% right.

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@LibertarianSlut, I get where you're coming from. I can understand how someone in Molly's situation would be upset on an emotional level. For me, the distinction lies in the purpose of the ask - professional vs. personal/recreational.

Asking to borrow someone's boat is for recreational purposes only, not to mention the liability issue. It's a big ask, and it's just for fun. In the poker scenario, if your husband and cousin are both pro poker players, and she's playing to earn a living, I would be more inclined to help than if she was just trying to make money off her friends.

In the Molly/Issa/Andrew scenario, the ask was purely professional. Issa had a lot at stake, and what she was asking was small from Andrew's POV.

I have a family member whom I despise and who has user tendencies. If she asked me for a kidney, I would have to think long and hard about it. If she asked to stay at my place, no effing way. But if she called and asked me to give her or her husband a job lead, I would do it, unless I knew them to be seriously trifling, which they aren't (and neither is Issa).

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12 hours ago, felicity porter said:

not unlike how she used Daniel

whoa...you mean the guy fucking in the other room while she was on the couch? the passive aggressive, unwilling to take advice guy...him? yeah fuck him.

Issa is messy for going behind Molly's back, but Molly's reaction was over the top and unnecessary. I don't think Molly wanted Issa to fail, but she was unsupportive and shitty throughout the planning of the block party. If you see your best friend floundering do you just let them sink or do you sit them down for a talk? If she was that concerned how come she never said "hey friend you need to start looking for a real job" or "hey friend do you need me to sponsor a couple therapy sessions with my shrink who I don't really tell anything"? 

My best friend and I live on opposite coasts he called me two weeks into quarantine and we talked for two hours--that's what best friends do, we check in with each other.

ETA: Molly offering to teach Andrew to wobble and he was like girl hold my beer 

 

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That's a ban on Badu.

Kelli and Ahmal were killing me. The hate is real.

Sometimes you just don't fcuk with Peppa Pig. Don't.

Andrew wobbling. Lawd take me now. Molly, you better not let him get away ftom you.

At this point I think Molly is scared out of her mind. She's been seeing Issa slip away and now she could potentially take a big loss with Andrew as well.

Issa looked absolutely stunning in the  Wine Down.

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3 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

This is just to explore the other side.  I think Molly was wrong, should have left, and should have been mad at Andrew if she was going to be mad at Issa, but is there anything to be said for Molly’s side?  She might be 5% right.

Molly was justified in her hurt feelings.  Issa did go behind her back.  But her reaction to her hurt was totally out of line and disproportionate to Issa’s “crime”.    Issa did what she did to save her event.   It was not to stick it to Molly from what I could see.    But Molly’s reaction and attack was all personal.  And didn’t feel like it had anything to do with Andrew, but everything to do with her issues with Issa.   

My issue with Molly all season is that there is usually a kernel of “right” in her feelings, but the execution and reactions are always wrong.  

 

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I don't think Molly was justified in her hurt feelings and I don't think her feelings were hurt. 

I think she was mad that issa found a loophole around her and it was a success.  

Molly pointed to the sanctity of her relationship with Andrew and that was fine (but weird) reasoning and her relationship was not implicated in any way.  

Andrew never even told molly because it wasn't a favor to her and didn't implicate her.  He has apparently been listening to Molly bitch about issa for a minute now.  It had to be pretty clear that Molly was in no way involved here.  

Had it all turned to shit and been messy I don't even think Andrew would have been mad.  He doesn't seem like that guy.  And frankly, no one should really hold one adult responsible for another adult's messiness.  Especially if you two are just friends.  

My dentist referred me to two oral surgeons.  One was great, the other was awful.  I didn't hold him responsible for the terrible one.  Even though a referral is kinda akin to vouching for him. 

I just don't see any leg for Molly to stand on here.  Andrew doesn't seem the sort who would have blamed Nathan if it had turned out messy.....why would he have any ill will towards Molly if it went south when she didn't ask him?  If I had a friend in that position is tell her to take a real long look at her relationship if a man is willing to blame her second hand for this.  

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5 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I just want to issue a disclaimer that I thought Molly was dead wrong.  She should never have confronted Issa at the event; she should have left if she was so in her feelings.  And she realizes if she’s mad at Issa for “stabbing [her] in the back,” her logic needs to extend to accusing Andrew of stabbing her in the back too, right?

But.  But.  This show is written so well, that when I picked my jaw up off the floor, I realized the contrarian in me, the devil’s advocate, could theoretically make a case for Molly, and it’s in line with the post quoted above, and I just want to explore that a little to see where this line of thinking could go.

If Molly is in a committed relationship with Andrew at this point (last we heard they were “exclusive”; I’m assuming they moved on down the line to boyfriend and girlfriend by the time of the block party), does Molly get to have separation between church and state with her friend and her man?  Does she get to say, in her head, “I love Issa, but she’s messy as hell” and “I love Andrew, and I want to protect him”? 

Just because everything did go right doesn’t mean it was definitely going to go right.  What if Andrew had extended himself for Issa, and it came back to bite him in the ass professionally?  Would Molly still have no cause for complaint?  Because I’m not sure we can make an outcome-oriented determination as to whether this was ok.  What if it had gotten screwed up?

I think it’s a really good question, and super interesting, because, as everyone is saying up thread, part of Issa’s job is networking.  Is Molly allowed to make someone off limits?  Could she make her mother or her brother off-limits to Issa?  If so, why wouldn’t that extend to her boyfriend?  I am sincerely wondering.  

I just know that if my cousin came to me and asked me if my husband could FaceTime with her so that my husband could give her poker pointers for an upcoming tournament, but I said no to my cousin, because I don’t especially like her and I think she’s a user, even though I love her because she’s my cousin...would I have no cause for complaint if she heard my “no” and had someone else ask him to FaceTime with her, and they FaceTimed a few times and nothing bad came out of it and I found out about it?  (I’m trying to make this line of thinking as similar to Insecure as I can make my life).

I think I would be very angry at that cousin on principle (and my husband, if he knew I said no, because that’s going behind backs).  Would I have that right, or would I just be an asshole?  (I’m completely aware of the fact that some of my emotionally driven thoughts are positively assholian, which is why I don’t always express them).  I’ve never been in this situation before, so I don’t know what I would feel.  I think I would feel slighted, but I might be wrong.

Is there a fundamental difference between spouses and significant others when it comes to these questions?  Because it would still leave me with a bad taste in my mouth if he and I were unmarried and the same thing happened.  I mean, at what point does personal agency come into it—aka Issa’s right to communicate and ask for favors—and at what point is it disrespectful because one person in the couple spoke for the couple?  

I think the fact that Issa knew Andrew independently of Molly, through Nathan, is a factor.  

I asked my husband if he thought there was an argument to be made in Molly’s favor, and he said that when Molly said she wasn’t going to ask Andrew, it was implied that Molly didn’t want Issa to ask Andrew about it, and he would think it was a little weird for Issa to find “other channels” to get to Andrew.  He said if he wanted to use my boss’s boat and I declined to ask my boss about the boat, he wouldn’t go to my co-workers and try to get them to ask for same. 

This is just to explore the other side.  I think Molly was wrong, should have left, and should have been mad at Andrew if she was going to be mad at Issa, but is there anything to be said for Molly’s side?  She might be 5% right.

So, in this hypothetical are you telling your cousin "no" or are you telling your cousin something like "I don't feel comfortable asking"

If Molly had said a hard "no"  and issa said "okay" and then went through Nathan, I'd be in the "betrayal, but what an overreaction!" camp. 

But that's not what molly said.  Molly said that she was uncomfortable asking because her relationship with Andrew was new and she didn't want to ask. 

To me, a reasonable interpretation of that is that Molly didn't want to ask because the act of asking would have negative implications for her newly established relationship status.  I think that reasoning is weak, but that's what molly came with.  

And so, no one asked Molly to ask and her relationship wasn't subject to the hypothetical repercussions she was talking about.  

An independent third party asked.  And if Andrew held any of issas theoretical messiness against her friend who didn't ask him to help her.....he isn't a good guy. 

But there isn't one thing about Andrew that makes him seem even remotely like that guy.  I don't think he would have held issas messiness against Nathan, or anyone.  

I also personally think there is a difference with married couples vs. someone who just decided they were going to be exclusive.  I assume my sister and husband speak as a unit.  They have a household they set up together, their assets are intertwined, etc, etc.  If my sister tells me that her husband can talk to me about some harebrained tax idea I just dreamed up, I know he can.  If she says he can't, he can't.  I don't assume that same level of sync and lockstep between two people who have just decided to be exclusive.  

I guess maybe if a couple had been together like a really long time without being married, I might assume the same status, I'm not sure.  

Edited by RealReality
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22 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

Word to your entire post @ElectricBoogaloo.

I was a fan of Condola's, but what she pulled with Issa was not fucking cool.  If you're working together, just be professional long enough to get to the end and then pull whatever bullshit you want.  That's one of my pet peeves.  

I also am not sure that it's PPD.  I agree with you that Tiff is a box checker.  Even more so, I think Tiff's expectations about having a baby were all covered in love and cuteness and rainbows.  She wasn't prepared for the realities that come with motherhood - the long days being stuck at home (probably by herself) and sleepless nights, the exhaustion, the constant cleanup, the endless crying, etc.  It wasn't at all what she expected or wanted, and she can't return the baby.  

So much this!

she had a real good time decorating that nursery, but now she’s done.

she needs her mom to tell her that that baby is so finite, and you will miss the sweet smallness one day.

but YMMV

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13 hours ago, RealReality said:

I don't think Molly was justified in her hurt feelings and I don't think her feelings were hurt. 

I think she was mad that issa found a loophole around her and it was a success.  

This.

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On 5/11/2020 at 9:36 AM, mrsbagnet said:

I hope that Andrew drops Molly now that he has seen how unreasonable and nasty she can be.

He is so good to her and deserves better. And did she really have to go off on Issa that way THERE?!!! It couldn't wait for a better time and place?!!!

I couldn't care less if Tiffany is not adjusting to motherhood. She's one of those characters who I really believe that IRL, she would die first rather than have a kid. First off, she would barely survive pregnancy, labor would kill her and as far as having a screaming, demanding little bundle that barely sleeps, eats round the clock and needs frequent diaper changes, plus takes attention away from her goes, she really strikes me as a woman who looked at all that and said, "Hell no!"

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I am struggling with the concept that Issa went behind Molly's back.  That idea feels very intentional and say what you will about Issa, she never strikes me as acting with malice or intent in that way.

One thing I think is missing -- intentionally so -- is the exact nature of the conversation between Issa and Nathan.  We saw that he was the one to initially reach out.  But after that we have nothing for a month in tv show time.  So sometime between that voicemail and the block party, there were a series of conversations.  But what did they look like? 

Issa said he asked her is she needed anything for the block party.  Presumably she mentioned that her headliner dropped out.  So what then?  Did she hit him up to ask Andrew?  Did he offer unprompted?  Did he go to Andrew on his own without checking with Issa?

And if he did ask is it realistic for her to turn down the opportunity in order to preserve Molly's feelings?  Knowing full well that if she did she may have effectively scuttled any chances she ever had of making a go of her new profession since she would have shown all those sponsors that she was unreliable?  And thus killing her new start  before she even made it into the blocks?

Do we think Molly would have risked a similar professional suicide to preserve Issa's feelings if the shoe was on the other foot?

Outside of all of that, and after some thought, I think Molly not knowing about the whole thing with Vince Staples and Andrew's involvement until that moment tracks as somewhat unbelievable.  It smacks of narrative manipulation to create maximum drama. 

Are we supposed to really believe that in an entire month's time, Issa and Molly haven't talked, even just to touch base?  That Issa, having secured her a new headliner would not have said something about it even if only to babble out of sheer relief?  Or that Andrew would not have made an offhand mention to Molly?

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31 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I am struggling with the concept that Issa went behind Molly's back.  That idea feels very intentional and say what you will about Issa, she never strikes me as acting with malice or intent in that way.

One thing I think is missing -- intentionally so -- is the exact nature of the conversation between Issa and Nathan.  We saw that he was the one to initially reach out.  But after that we have nothing for a month in tv show time.  So sometime between that voicemail and the block party, there were a series of conversations.  But what did they look like? 

Issa said he asked her is she needed anything for the block party.  Presumably she mentioned that her headliner dropped out.  So what then?  Did she hit him up to ask Andrew?  Did he offer unprompted?  Did he go to Andrew on his own without checking with Issa?

And if he did ask is it realistic for her to turn down the opportunity in order to preserve Molly's feelings?  Knowing full well that if she did she may have effectively scuttled any chances she ever had of making a go of her new profession since she would have shown all those sponsors that she was unreliable?  And thus killing her new start  before she even made it into the blocks?

Do we think Molly would have risked a similar professional suicide to preserve Issa's feelings if the shoe was on the other foot?

Outside of all of that, and after some thought, I think Molly not knowing about the whole thing with Vince Staples and Andrew's involvement until that moment tracks as somewhat unbelievable.  It smacks of narrative manipulation to create maximum drama. 

Are we supposed to really believe that in an entire month's time, Issa and Molly haven't talked, even just to touch base?  That Issa, having secured her a new headliner would not have said something about it even if only to babble out of sheer relief?  Or that Andrew would not have made an offhand mention to Molly?

Yeah, I found that kinda unrealistic too.

Not so much that issa wouldn't tell Molly or that Molly wouldn't know through the friend network. 

Issa is busy with the party and Molly hasn't been a source of comfort, but is more of a problem she has to put on the back burner. I think if she and Molly had been cool, she would have called her out of relief.  But at this point, it seems like if I were in issas shoes it would be more work to talk to Molly than it would be a comfort.  It seems like issa likes to just sort of put things to the side.  

I feel that Molly and issa are the closest out of the group and I'm not sure how often the others interact, so it's possible that Kelly and Tiffany didn't know the specifics of how VS was contacted.  And even if they did, they may not have seen it as this burning betrayal, particularly if they hadn't heard anything from Molly. 

Tiffany has a baby, and Kelli is trying to convince some dim bulb she is from england....they have other things to talk about.  

However, it WAS kinda weird that Andrew never mentioned it offhand. 

I don't think it's anything nefarious, but when Molly was setting out her clothes, I got the impression that Andrew had heard quite a bit of Molly bitching about issa.  So the subject of issa would have likely come up a time or two before and it's kinda weird he didn't say anything.  

The only way it possibly makes sense is if it was such a small ask that it barely even registered as something newsworthy.  He didn't know that she and issa had had the prior conversation, so he didn't know the ask was a big deal. 

He may not have thought the rift between Molly and issa was that deep, though he knew something was there.   

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