S05.E10: Mercy Shall Follow Me

[Athena]

Quote

Jamie and Roger implement their plan to eliminate the threat looming over them, but it goes awry.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I almost turned this episode off as soon as it was obvious that Bonnet was creeping on Claire and Brianna in town. My absolute least favorite part of the first few seasons was all the BJR stuff. I got sick of the constant kidnapping, raping, almost raping, and violence. I liked when the show began relying less on putting the characters in peril to provide plot. With the pending revolution, settling Fraser's Ridge, and Brianna and Roger time traveling, it seems like there's more than enough material to work with which I was happy about.

I actually stopped the episode when Brianna said she was going to put her feet in the water because I knew as soon as she and Claire were separated, Bonnet would strike. I hated that I was right. When Brianna woke up, I actually asked myself if I wanted to watch the remaining 40 minutes because I do not need to watch a rape victim held hostage and emotionally tortured by her rapist.

I ended up watching the rest and yup, I loathed this fucking episode for exactly the reasons I thought I would. It was gross to watch Bonnet with Brianna. I was not here for his wannabe Beauty and the Beast

And after all of Roger's "she's your daughter but she's MY WIFE" pissing contest with Jamie about whose penis had been more offended by Brianna being raped, he won the privilege of killing Bonnet and then DIDN'T KILL BONNET. He punched him a few times (which, for some reason, the show thought required slow motion) and tied him up. And then he had the nerve to get pissy about Brianna shooting Bonnet? Fuck off, Roger. Maybe he was just mad that she did two things that Roger couldn't do: kill someone and shoot anything that's more than two feet away.

Ulysses FTW. I'd rather have him protect me instead of Roger any day!

[nara]

I’m glad the saga of Stephen Bonnet is over.  Let’s clear the decks for the real action!
 

If they were trying to make him greyer in this episode by sharing his orphanhood, it was unsuccessful with me. They should have done that earlier. By the way, why do men like to dress women up before harming them? Is that a real thing or just a tv trope? You kidnapped me, but gave me this beautiful dress, so all is forgiven!

At the time, I was cringing when they didn’t kill him immediately. Our team never seems to learn lessons. Death by drowning seems a very James Bond Villain method...

I was ok with the end. I don’t think Roger was judging Brianna, but rather that he was genuinely curious. 

The attempted murder of Jocasta shocked me. I was not accepting that. Yay, Ulysses! I was literally chanting his name as he came to the rescue. I was really worried that she would die and he would be accused of 2 murders.

[CarpeFelis]

I just about choked when Brianna told Bonnet “I could never think any less of you”!

[DoctorAtomic]

Bree inventing Star Wars - 'I've got a bad feeling about this.'

I did like the development of Bree and Claire still working on a needle design. I wish the show did more with that. I thought it was great when Claire made the 'batsuit' when she went back the second time, but they've never done much with 'future tech'. You'd think with three of them there, they'd think more about it. It's not like Roger is doing much.

[DoctorAtomic]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And after all of Roger's "she's your daughter but she's MY WIFE" pissing contest with Jamie about whose penis had been more offended by Brianna being raped,

I just wanted to quote this. I have nothing to add. 

Are/were women not allowed to carry guns in the 1770s. With Claire and Bree both being decent shots and going off on their own, I'm surprised Jamie wouldn't insist on them carrying. 

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My absolute least favorite part of the first few seasons was all the BJR stuff.

I liked the character because of the actor but agree using him as basically a plot device was weak storytelling as is the case here. With this impending fire and the Revolution, there's plenty of storytelling fodder. This isn't a show that *needs* a big bad. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Too bad they couldn't invent a dna test along with the needles amirite?!

[toolazy]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

 

Are/were women not allowed to carry guns in the 1770s. With Claire and Bree both being decent shots and going off on their own, I'm surprised Jamie wouldn't insist on them carrying. 

 

They were carrying.  Brianna tried to shoot Bonnet but the gun ended up not firing.  There's a promo shot out there of Claire with the gun in her belt.

[BitterApple]

I have to say, I'm a little surprised the Frasers weren't more discreet. Bonnet is lurking around Wilmington, and they're openly plotting in a tavern and frolicking on the beach. I'm also surprised they didn't have a couple of men stay with Claire and Bree. I know the ladies are capable, but there's safety in numbers and neither of them can overpower a grown man if their gun doesn't fire (as we saw here). 

I wanted to throw a brick through my tv when Brianna wanted Bonnet to be judged by the law rather than executed on the beach. Sure, great. Let the man live and be held in prison until his day in court. Because that's worked out so well before....

I also didn't understand the comment about contacting Tryon to grease the wheels in their favor. If Tryon is now in New York, it would take months to get word to him and receive a response. Why the hell would you risk that amount of time? 

I actually liked most of the episode despite my whining, I just wish these people would smarten up a little, you know?

Edited April 26, 2020 by BitterApple

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, toolazy said:

They were carrying.  Brianna tried to shoot Bonnet but the gun ended up not firing.  There's a promo shot out there of Claire with the gun in her belt.

I thought that was Bonnet's gun, but ok. 

Claire didn't have the gun in her belt when Bonnet popped up on the hill though. 

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I'm also surprised they didn't have a couple of men stay with Claire and Bree. I know the ladies are capable, but there's safety in numbers and neither of them can overpower a grown man if their gun doesn't fire (as we saw here).

I don't know if it's worse that they did have a gun and just left it there or not have any at all. Given the point of the scene is Bree has to go with Bonnet, you can still have Claire packing, try to shoot him, it misfires, and he pulls his gun on her with the same end result. 

I know it's a minor point, but Claire isn't an idiot and this makes her stupid for plot purposes. It's shoddy writing. 

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I wanted to throw a brick through my tv when Brianna wanted Bonnet to be judged by the law rather than executed on the beach. Sure, great. Let the man live and be held in prison until his day in court. Because that's worked out so well before....

Yeah. I can't fault her too too much here. She's not of this time period and she's been brought up under the rule of law in a civil society. 

I will give her credit for keeping her wits about her in Bonnet's house. I figuring she was fixing to escape when she said good night, but he said they were on an island?

So he fucks a whore in front of her? Oh, that will show her. I'm sure she was impressed he lasted 7 seconds. 

*Of course* Claire threatens the Mistress of the brothel. All you have to do is pay them enough. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I actually liked most of the episode despite my whining, I just wish these people would smarten up a little, you know?

I don't have the energy to hate watch. If I didn't really like the show I wouldn't watch. This one actually did have a lot going on.

I was cracking up at the lawyer flipping out about the will, then oh shit! 

Credit to Roger for those haymakers though. And Bree for that shot. Damn that was cold af. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[toolazy]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I thought that was Bonnet's gun, but ok. 

Claire didn't have the gun in her belt when Bonnet popped up on the hill though. 

I watched it again and Brianna grabbed the gun out of their basket.  

 

[Cdh20]

I thought this episode was quite suspenseful. 

I cringed everytime Bonnet looked like he was going to touch Bree. Surely she would not have to be assaulted  again? Thank you for that, although that man who wanted to buy her did touch her-YUCK! And I thought she kept her wits about her until she started pleading about going home & how she would return (rolled my eyes).  Did Bonnet get the idea from Forbes that he had to turn himself into a "gentleman" to run River Run? 

I also couldn't believe they wouldn't have just shot/killed Bonnet on the beach. And the earlier argument between Jamie & Roger about who got to do it meant it wouldn't be either of them. And  Bonnet saying he was afraid of drowning for the second time (also in 401 I believe), foreshadowing that he should die that way. I kept wishing Bree would find a way to kill him while she was kidnapped!

I liked Claire & Bree trying to get the syringe made. 

[Steph J]

17 minutes ago, Cdh20 said:

I kept wishing Bree would find a way to kill him while she was kidnapped!

I mean, she did recite Moby Dick to him, so maybe she was trying to bore him to death.  Although since she didn't have the actual book in front of her maybe she skipped the hundreds of pages of tedious minutiae.

[Hanahope]

I thought Ed Speleers did a good job at the end showing Bonnet’s fear at drowning, then a look of hope when he saw Bree, followed by both fear again (when she raised the gun) and acceptance/resignation when it was clear she was going to shoot him.  
 

I do wonder why the punishment was now drowning as opposed to hanging.

Glad that story line is done now.

I'm hoping we get Ian’s story soon.  It’s been long enough.

 

[Cdh20]

10 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I thought Ed Speleers did a good job at the end showing Bonnet’s fear at drowning, then a look of hope when he saw Bree, followed by both fear again (when she raised the gun) and acceptance/resignation when it was clear she was going to shoot him.  
 

I do wonder why the punishment was now drowning as opposed to hanging.  I'm hoping we get Ian’s story soon.  It’s been long enough.

 

Maybe it's drowning for pirates?

Agreed, I am looking forward to Ian's story!

Edited April 27, 2020 by Cdh20

[DoctorAtomic]

10 hours ago, Steph J said:

I mean, she did recite Moby Dick to him, so maybe she was trying to bore him to death.

Whoof. Hot take there. I'm with you though. My english teacher raved about Billy Budd, and all I got was I thought I invented hoyay. 

It could have been a way better plot if they didn't basically reduce Bonnet to less than a one dimensional character. There's only so much an actor can do. 

The villains are just not compelling. The real drama for me comes with the inexorable press of time and building the characters. They just dumped a lot of backstory on Bonnet here and it's long been past time where I cared. 

I mean, look how much of a fave Fergus is, and all he really does is fuck a lot. 

[Grammaeryn]

New episode title ‘Sympathy for the Rapist” This is 80’s Luke and Laura level of bullshit. I think I’m taking a break from this show. Oof. 

[DoctorAtomic]

To be fair, I don't think Bree was being sympathetic. She was buying time to figure out how to get the hell out of there. 

Although, she must know how to drive a boat so I don't know why she just didn't take off when he was sleeping. 

But if you mean dumping all the exposition to try to make him misunderstood or whatever then yeah it was clunky. 

Honestly they could have excised all of this completely and not lost any main character development. 

[Hanahope]

I agree that Bree was just trying to appease Bonnet so he'd let her go to "get Jem" or otherwise let his guard down so she'd find a way to escape.  I also wondered why she didn't try to escape, but maybe she thought her "acting" skills would do the trick.  Not sure who's a worse actress, though, Bree or Sophie (badum!)  But I never once believed Bree felt anything but loathing for Bonnet, and I don't care how bad an upbringing he had, he's actions have shown nothing but the worst.

I did wonder how Claire "knew" the one whore was lying about knowing Bonnet.  Too fast of an answer?  Isn't she lucky the woman had a medical problem Claire could fix.

 

[Lola82]

I was going to scream if they left Bonnet on the beach. All that bickering over who gets to kill him and they leave it up to the courts?! Ok then. And at the end Bree still shoots him, could have saved a lot of time with all that.  
 

Any episode that’s short on Claire/Jamie interaction goes to the bottom of the list for me anyway.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, Lola82 said:

Any episode that’s short on Claire/Jamie interaction goes to the bottom of the list for me anyway.

This exactly. My finger got a lot of fast forwarding work out when it looked liked 95% of the episode was nothing but Bonnet!Bonnet!Bonnet! Like I give any figgedity fucks about his childhood or fear of drowning. Oh, Boo-Fucking-Hoo! He didn't have a mommy or a daddy, but was an orphan. What else could he grow up to be but a raping murdering arsehole?

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

Not sure who's a worse actress, though, Bree or Sophie (badum!)

Tough crowd. 

3 hours ago, Grammaeryn said:

New episode title ‘Sympathy for the Rapist”

I was referring to this ^. I don't know if it meant Bree was being sympathetic or the show was trying to humanize Bonnet for the viewers to be sympathetic. They blew that out when he was introduced first on the ship.

She probably could have convinced him to go with her to get the baby though. On the island, she's stuck. If they get off the island, she's got options. 

I actually liked how the cobbler in the title card factored into the episode. Claire is good when she's clever and using her actual skills. 

[toolazy]

2 hours ago, Lola82 said:

I was going to scream if they left Bonnet on the beach. All that bickering over who gets to kill him and they leave it up to the courts?! Ok then. And at the end Bree still shoots him, could have saved a lot of time with all that.  
 

Any episode that’s short on Claire/Jamie interaction goes to the bottom of the list for me anyway.

Keep in mind that none of that bickering involved Brianna, who is really who should have the final say in what happened to Bonnet.  It was Jamie or Roger that Bonnet raped, it was Brianna.

 

So it's more than fitting that Brianna is the one who made the final decisions about his fate. Yes, it makes Roger and Jamie look kind of stupid but good. That's what they get for leaving her out of the planning. 

[Cdh20]

22 minutes ago, toolazy said:

Keep in mind that none of that bickering involved Brianna, who is really who should have the final say in what happened to Bonnet.  It was Jamie or Roger that Bonnet raped, it was Brianna.

 

So it's more than fitting that Brianna is the one who made the final decisions about his fate. Yes, it makes Roger and Jamie look kind of stupid but good. That's what they get for leaving her out of the planning. 

I hoped it would be Brianna. I  think her sending him to trail is because of being from the 1900's.

[Ziggy]

On 4/27/2020 at 3:19 PM, Hanahope said:

I did wonder how Claire "knew" the one whore was lying about knowing Bonnet.  Too fast of an answer?  Isn't she lucky the woman had a medical problem Claire could fix.

 

I think Claire assumed that every person in that brothel knew who Bonnet was, and that they were all just terrified of what would happen to them if they helped the Frasers.  She picked that girl hoping that if she helped her in some way, she might be moved to help them.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Ziggy

[DoctorAtomic]

2 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I think Claire assumed that every person in that brothel knew who Bonnet was, and that they were all just terrified of what would happen to them if they helped the Frasiers.

The fancy guy that set up the whole deal that they threatened said Bonnet frequented the brothel. He wanted Bonnet out as much as they did, so I would think Claire and Jamie would figure the whores might lie. Of course, Claire is lucky that the mistress had an ailment because after threatening her, I would have bounced Claire the fuck out of my establishment. 

 

[ctlady]

With the whale sighting and Bree 'reading' Moby  Dick to Bonnett, was I the only one who thought an apropos death for him was to be tied up, tossed in the ocean and have a final shot of him getting dragged by that whale?

And count me in as perfectly fine with Bree,Roger and Jemmy (I really wish they wouldn't call him that) back through the stone to the future  They are absolutely useless (save for diverting locusts and fashioning a syringe)

and uninteresting.  I don't like Sophie's acting and seems to have one type of 'serious face' for everything

Ulysses is savage!

Edited April 28, 2020 by ctlady

[DoctorAtomic]

I figure they want to stay around for the fire, but literally no one has brought it up in forever. 

[Cdh20]

24 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I figure they want to stay around for the fire, but literally no one has brought it up in forever. 

Roger mentioned it last episode- he told Jamie he wouldn’t die from a snake bite because he’s supposed to die in a fire!

[Ziggy]

On 4/27/2020 at 9:33 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Of course, Claire is lucky that the mistress had an ailment because after threatening her, I would have bounced Claire the fuck out of my establishment.

I don't think Claire was threatening her.  Claire was trying to gain sympathy because she was about to tell them that someone was trying to hurt her own daughter.

[DoctorAtomic]

When the mistress asked for money for info on Bonnet, Claire snapped, 'a life is at stake'. Then she toned down when the mistress was like, yeah no. It's not like Claire isn't one to mouth off, but you also can't think you're going to barge in and make demands. 

 

[LoveLeigh]

There are two episodes left. This season, while produced magnificently, has been remarkable slow. it is paced in an almost diligent manner and sometimes it gets boring. 

What actually happened this season other than Bonnet being killed? 

[DoctorAtomic]

The culmination of the regulator plot. That's really it unless you count the wedding or Ian. 

[AryasMum]

On 4/27/2020 at 12:24 AM, Cdh20 said:

I thought this episode was quite suspenseful. 

I cringed everytime Bonnet looked like he was going to touch Bree. Surely she would not have to be assaulted  again? Thank you for that, although that man who wanted to buy her did touch her-YUCK! And I thought she kept her wits about her until she started pleading about going home & how she would return (rolled my eyes).  Did Bonnet get the idea from Forbes that he had to turn himself into a "gentleman" to run River Run? 

I also couldn't believe they wouldn't have just shot/killed Bonnet on the beach. And the earlier argument between Jamie & Roger about who got to do it meant it wouldn't be either of them. And  Bonnet saying he was afraid of drowning for the second time (also in 401 I believe), foreshadowing that he should die that way. I kept wishing Bree would find a way to kill him while she was kidnapped!

I liked Claire & Bree trying to get the syringe made. 

Maybe Brianna has read Les Miserables?  Although promising to come back didn’t help Jean Valjean either. 

On 4/27/2020 at 1:52 PM, Grammaeryn said:

New episode title ‘Sympathy for the Rapist” This is 80’s Luke and Laura level of bullshit. I think I’m taking a break from this show. Oof. 

The 80’s romance was known as Love at First Rape. 

[Cdh20]

8 hours ago, AryasMum said:

Maybe Brianna has read Les Miserables?  Although promising to come back didn’t help Jean Valjean either. 

The 80’s romance was known as Love at First Rape. 

Yuck,  I do not remember that! 

[sab85]

I'm just glad Bree was the one who got to kill Bonnet. I was going to be pissed if Jamie or Roger did it. 

I thought Ed Speleers did a good job with Bonnet, making him very charismatic. I didn't like the Moby Dick scenes though- he came off as manic. I don't know if Bonnet was supposed to be drunk or what. 

[Tyro49]

How closely does this follow the books? Do they behave as idiotically there? 

[Sew Sumi]

37 minutes ago, Tyro49 said:

How closely does this follow the books? Do they behave as idiotically there? 

You need to ask in the Book Talk thread. Book talk is verboten here.

[Athena]

8 hours ago, Tyro49 said:

How closely does this follow the books? Do they behave as idiotically there? 

The book talk episode thread is here. You can also ask specific questions in the Ask the Outlanders thread here. 

[Camera One]

I liked the scenes with Brianna and Claire by the sea.  Too bad it was marred by the peeping Bonnet.  

I don't know if they were trying to make Bonnet into a tragic character who truly wanted to be a family with Brianna and his son but was twisted by his childhood traumas or whatever, but I agree with the above that it didn't work.  I didn't buy that he believed in the fantasy that Brianna was presenting, with teaching him how to be a gentleman, reading to him, etc.  

Jaime didn't do a great job with hunting Bonnet down.  He could have had someone follow that smarmy guy around (the one who was going to arrange a meeting with Bonnet).  Knowing Bonnet was in town, Brianna and Claire should have been in disguise or something.

I actually expected Bonnet to escape again when they decided that Bonnet should face a proper trial.  I'm glad he's gone for good.  Good riddance to a bad storyline.

[Beeyago]

On 4/25/2021 at 3:06 AM, Camera One said:

Good riddance to a bad storyline.

Indeed!!!💯

[Gimmick Genius]

On 4/26/2020 at 9:28 AM, nara said:

The attempted murder of Jocasta shocked me. I was not accepting that. Yay, Ulysses! I was literally chanting his name as he came to the rescue. 

Nasty little Hobbitses!

[gingerella]

I made the final push yesterday and escaped horrible world events by watching the last three S05 episodes, not a good choice methinks. In no particular order of importance:

* No good comes from being in Wilmington, like, ever. Show is a cock blocker for the Wilmington Chamber of Commerce!

* Jamie's hairbrained plans literally almost never work out as, like, 'plans, so I dont know why they don't just call them Schemes, because that's what they are. 'If you fall I will avenge you". Sure you will. Maybe. Sorta kinda? This whole Scottish pride and honor has played out enough times in almost taking someone's life that it's just bad writing at this point, assuming it comes from the books.

* Claire, hon, if it's sea shells you're after, you'll be wanting to, yanno, be ON the beach, not in the sand dunes FFS. It was a weak ass device to get Brianna alone so Bonnet could prey on one of them at least. And it cannot be said enough, WHY THE FUCK did Jamie and Roger not have some men guarding Claire and Brianna? Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ on a cracker! These characters never learn, I just can't anymore with this Bonnet bullshit.

* Watching the entire Bonnet terrorized Brianna yet again but this time without touching her, was just gross. What the hell is wrong with this writer and/or the show runners? Do they think we appreciate the 'delicate' nature in which they constantly show us rape, near rape, and assorted mental torture? Why am I even bothering to watch this anymore? I keep hoping the show will get it's old S01 & 02 magic back, but I don't think it ever will to be honest. It's like GoTs, it was great for a couple of seasons and then it just became a rinse and repeat of tired old violent and unentertaining tropes.

* I know Roger said he wanted to kill Bonnet himself at the shack, but FFS Jamie, lend a goddamned hand wouldja?!

* Annnd yet another 'let's not kill him now, let's make him stand trial', because yanno, that worked out so well the umpteen times they did that already, right?!

* Good on Brianna for shooting him. I think if it was me, I'd have waiting for the water to almost drown him so he could be terrorized a little bit longer, but then again, she had a clear shot at that time, and knew for certain that he was dead and I think that was the most important thing in that moment. I don't think it was mercy at all.

* @SassAndSnacks I tried, I really did, but I think I land at 'just okay' with the choir. I gave it the old college try though, for your sake!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

* Good on Brianna for shooting him. I think if it was me, I'd have waiting for the water to almost drown him so he could be terrorized a little bit longer, but then again, she had a clear shot at that time, and knew for certain that he was dead and I think that was the most important thing in that moment. I don't think it was mercy at all.

I'm pretty sure it was both. She shot him because she wanted to do it herself and knew he had a nightmare of drowning.

[SassAndSnacks]

On 2/27/2022 at 3:39 PM, gingerella said:

I land at 'just okay' with the choir. I gave it the old college try though, for your sake!

I appreciate you giving it a try. We can bemoan the song for next season together.

On 4/25/2021 at 3:06 AM, Camera One said:

I liked the scenes with Brianna and Claire by the sea.

Truly the highlight of the episode.

 

I've been pretty blunt on how I feel about Bri-based storylines, so obviously this episode wasn't for me.  I FFed through large swaths of the show.  I feel like the writing was meh, too.

 

 

[mythoughtis]

The show lost me during the ‘teach me how to be a gentleman’ part.  Bonnet can put on an act as a good ole boy ( as he did to get Jamie to save  him)  but he could never act as he did during this part of the episode.   He’s a pirate captain raised that way from practically birth.  
There did not need to be a trial.  He had already been sentenced to hang long ago, escaping the noose didn’t negate that sentence.  You can only execute a man once. 
 

How is Jocasta  going to save Ulysses from hanging for killing Forbes.? Yes it was justified, but he is a slave. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by mythoughtis