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S15.E13: Destiny's Child

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A search for the one thing that may give the Winchesters an edge against God leads Sam and Dean to Jo’s door and to a secret that may have died with Ruby. Meanwhile, Castiel asks Jack to do the unthinkable to help the brothers in their quest.

Air date: March 23, 2020

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So the 'unthinkable' was to 'kill' Cas? Lame, when we all know that ain't happening yet.

Seeing 'Meg' was a surprise.

Alt Dean and Sam were fun, and yes, Sam still has a stick up his ass in all universes. Heh.

It was okay as an episode, but I really hate seeing the Winchesters relegated to a supporting act in the Jack show. And the ret-conning of Ruby and Jo/Anael was just dumb. They lol!canoned Jo becoming a faith healer after the fall, and Ruby, who was patently terrified of angels in S4 is reveal to have been frenemy/cohorts with Jo (who wasn't Jo then). Oy.

So was the 'paradise' fetus!Jack brainwashed Cas with back in S12 literally paradise, aka the Garden of Eden? Sure George.

And Jack has his soul back and now feels remorse over Mary and empathy for Dean and Sam's loss, and begs forgiveness... but did he ever actually say 'I'm sorry'?

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So the 'unthinkable' was to 'kill' Cas? Lame, when we all know that ain't happening yet.

Seeing 'Meg' was a surprise.

Alt Dean and Sam were fun, and yes, Sam still has a stick up his ass in all universes. Heh.

It was okay as an episode, but I really hate seeing the Winchesters relegated to a supporting act in the Jack show. And the ret-conning of Ruby and Jo/Anael was just dumb. The lol!canoned Jo becoming a faith healer after the fall, and Ruby, who was patently terrified of angels in S4 is reveal to have been frenemy/cohorts with Jo (who wasn't Jo then). Oy.

So was the 'paradise' fetus!Jack brainwashed Cas with back in S12 literally paradise, aka the Garden of Eden? Sure George.

And Jack has his soul back and now feels remorse over Mary and empathy for Dean and Sam's loss, and begs forgiveness... but did he ever actually say 'I'm sorry'?

He started with “I’m so sorry.”

 

I actually enjoyed this for what it was. It was an interesting storyline tho I’m not a fan of the boys being relegated to supporting actors. I enjoyed the alterna Sam and Dean and I’m glad they get to go romp in Brazil. Genevieve and Danneel were both good. Didn’t mind it! Low bar, I know. 

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How did alt Sam and Dean drive Baby when Dean, Sam, Cas, and Jack drove to the church in it?

I didn't hate it, is basically the best thing I can say about an ep these days.

AU Sam and Dean were fun.  This just tells me once again  that I can't wait to see Jensen in a new project.  His alt Dean, even when in the flannel was completely different.  It was Dean but not Dean at the same time.  Even the shirt looked to big, even though it was Deans' shirt.  I chuckled at AU Dean getting scared of real Dean about Baby.  No one messes with baby.  Even Dean.

How bad is the writing when Buck/Lemming are the ones to remember canon, and Amara and the balance, and Jack killing Mary.  Although there was so much lol Canon with the whole retconing of the Jo/Ruby stuff.  Ruby was terrified of Angels.  Basically both Ruby and were time wasters.  Especially Jo.  I like Danneel but Jo is a pointless character.

I also Dean's like Dean calling himself dumb or his plan.  It wasn't.  It was a good idea. 

I dislike the Jack and Cas show and how once again Sam and Dean were basically just given busy work in their own show.  If they aren't in this ep, no key plot points really change. 

It was nice to see Jack apologize.  I just hope they don't make Dean apologize.

Shut up Cas.  You don't get to talk about Dean and forgiveness after you demanded it.  Yes, you are still an idiot and lying and withholding information.

This is a sentence I never thought I would write.  Buck/Lemming are the best writers they have left.  The only eps I thought were okayish were 2, 8 and this one.  All written by B/L.   And half of ep 7.  Low bar

 

Edited by ILoveReading
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1 minute ago, Binns said:

He started with “I’m so sorry.”

Thanks! I couldn't remember. If so, then I am okay with Dean forgiving him. All that was ever needed was to have his (and Sam's) loss acknowledged and his perfectly justified anger not thrown back in his face.

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I wonder if AU Dean and Sam have a MOL bunker? They seemed surprised that the boys lived there, but they must have a bunker, or else them opening the rift in that exact spot would be quite a coincidence.

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2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

How did alt Sam and Dean drive Baby when Dean, Sam, Cas, and Jack drove to the church in it?


That’s the first thing that jumped into my mind.  I actually expected Dean to ask the question. But maybe they drove Baby at another time?

It’s just all lightweight silliness now. There’s no dread or suspense. I just soak up the pretty and sip my wine.

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32 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Thanks! I couldn't remember. If so, then I am okay with Dean forgiving him. All that was ever needed was to have his (and Sam's) loss acknowledged and his perfectly justified anger not thrown back in his face.

I agree. But I’m also glad they left it where it was, knowing Dean will forgive him when we get back to them. But glad they didn’t have him immediately granting forgiveness. 

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I turned it on long enough to see the funky little car and "Sam and Dean" get out of it. I said oh hell no and changed it to my baking show.  Trudysday laughed and said what?? No boys this week?  It took me a minute but I finally was able to say if they brought over some replica Sam and Deans from some other universe who opened a rift or whatever to save themselves from their end of the world over there, instead of fighting to save that world like our Sam and Dean, then I don't want to see them.  I did see enough to note that Sam is still a tightass no matter what world he's from.

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So I love bougie Sam and Dean, and we needed more of them this episode. "To dad! The best guy we know!" In fact...why the hell are we spending so much time on Jack drama and not watching multiple versions of Sam and Dean from around the multiverse teaming up to defeat Chuck?! Why am I not watching that show? Come on show, if your gonna so obviously rip off your CW neighbors in the Arrowverse, at least rip off the parts that were good! I feel like Jared and Jenson, especially Jenson, would kill it as multiple versions of themselves.

Not a bad episode, but not super interesting either, other than Sam and Dean meeting AU Sam and Dean. You know, for as much as the show likes to go on about how Sam and Dean are Chucks favorites, they sure do seem to be taking a backseat to the Jack show! I didnt even dislike Jack, I was pretty average on him, until he not only overtook the show, but lost his soul or whatever, and become this utterly unlikable robot person. So at least he is back to the version that I was just meh on, and not the one I actively dislike. And we did not only get Jack apologizing for killing Mary, but Cas specifically reminding Jack that something didnt just "happen" to Mary, Jack killed her. 

As usual, this show cant possibly be asked to remember the basic rules of their universe, let alone the motivations of its reoccurring and minor characters, so Jo and Ruby being kind of random is all par for the course. I did laugh at the comment about how, for something called "The Empty" they sure do have a ton of people in there! It might be called Empty, but it actually seems to have the population of most the of Western Hemisphere wandering around!

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The whole thing made no sense.  Having said that, at least it wasn't offensive (except for all the canon rewrite.)  Dean got to fight (and win).  Jack apologized.  Ruby wasn't around for long.

So....Jo was on earth prior to season 4.  The time when Cas said the angels were just supposed to watch and not touch.  And she was being a faith healer then?  Why didn't anyone from heaven stop her?  (OK, they rewrote that canon back when Lily Saunders first contacted the angels, but at least they were keeping a low profile.  But faith healing?  For 11 years, unnoticed?)  I thought she was a low-level administrator in heaven and took advantage of the fall (season 8, for those keeping track) to find a new job she liked better on earth.  

OK, number 2:  aside from the idiocy that Jo and Ruby even knew each other on earth, she told Ruby that Lucifer and Michael were circling their vessels, ready to start the apocalypse.  Except Ruby was killed before Luci's cage was opened.  Before he escaped.  At the end of season 4.  

And did anyone ask why Ruby told Cas where the whatsit was?  Didn't he promise to get her out of there?  Or was that handwaved away when Meg/the EE stepped in.  But Ruby told Cas *before* she was paid?  Really?  Or is that supposed to be something hanging over him like his deal with the Empty?

How did they wind up in a trap in hell while using the same spell they'd used before?  Where was Rowena?  If Jo sent them someplace else where she had demons waiting to ambush them, how????? (I admit it's possible I missed her giving them a different spell or directions.)  

But yes, it was good to see the checklist of dangling ends at least mentioned, even if they didn't do anything about them.  

What do you think the AU Winchesters are going to do for money/how are they going to get to Brazil?  They hardly seem equipped to hustle or scrounge, and have no trust fund on this earth.  😑

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MY THOUGHTS

- I'm glad that they finally addressed the balance thing between Chuck & Amara.

- I'm glad that Jack has a soul again and feels remorse for killing Mary.

- "Samwitch". Heh.

- MEG! OMG I didn't realize how much I missed her! too bad it wasn't really her.

- I enjoyed the interactions between our Sam & Dean and alt Sam & Dean. Also alt Sam & Dean stuck in between dimensions were very amusing.

- Love how they used the recap to show 500 quick shots of Dean eating pizza instead of, you know, important stuff like Cas' deal with the Empty, or who the hell Sister Jo is.

- Why are they making Dean such a dick these days? First he made a promise to Kia that he'd return her spear, then when she demanded it back he was like "lol I broke it too bad so sad". And this episode he tells alternate Sam & Dean to pretend to be them (probably knowing full well that Chuck would smite them in a heartbeat if he realized they were from another dimension), and when they get back he's just like "ok thanks now get the fuck out."

- So Jack using his powers to drain Cas of his grace doesn't count as "using his powers", or... ? That's the second time Chuck hasn't noticed Jack using his powers. Just saying.

- Why does Billie care about this world? Or more specifically, why does care that God is going to destroy it? The old Death didn't care, and was pretty chill about reaping God one day, too. 

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1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Thanks! I couldn't remember. If so, then I am okay with Dean forgiving him. All that was ever needed was to have his (and Sam's) loss acknowledged and his perfectly justified anger not thrown back in his face.

Unfortunately, because of Berens apology scene this will just look more like "character growth" from Dean that he didn't get angry and forgave rather than the anger being justified.  It all depends on how the dialogue is framed.

Seriously, I wanted to punch Cas when he was talking about Dean.  "Give him time"  Really Cas, shut up because that is the one thing you never gave him. 

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5 minutes ago, KayCordingly said:

So Jack using his powers to drain Cas of his grace doesn't count as "using his powers", or... ? That's the second time Chuck hasn't noticed Jack using his powers. Just saying.

And another thought--why should draining Cas of his grace almost kill him?  Metatron removed it entirely, and it just made him human.  Jack was dying without his grace, but he has other issues; and besides, it wasn't immediate.  

Oh well.  I shouldn't expect logic.

The best thing about this episode is that I won't miss the show now, and it can go out without leaving a bad taste in my mouth.  I'm not sure the real ending would do that.  

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You know what would have made this episode 100% better?  No Jo and Ruby. But mostly, Alt Sam and Alt Dean refusing to leave the bunker and getting into a battle for the bunker with the boys.  

 

What a dumb episode.  Just so dumb.

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1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

And another thought--why should draining Cas of his grace almost kill him?  Metatron removed it entirely, and it just made him human.  Jack was dying without his grace, but he has other issues; and besides, it wasn't immediate.  

Oh well.  I shouldn't expect logic.

The best thing about this episode is that I won't miss the show now, and it can go out without leaving a bad taste in my mouth.  I'm not sure the real ending would do that.  

IA!

It could end here and I'd be ok with that, too.

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Unfortunately, because of Berens apology scene this will just look more like "character growth" from Dean that he didn't get angry and forgave rather than the anger being justified.  It all depends on how the dialogue is framed.

Seriously, I wanted to punch Cas when he was talking about Dean.  "Give him time"  Really Cas, shut up because that is the one thing you never gave him. 

And especially because, yes, Dean hasn't been made to apologize yet and he didn't look like he was quite over his mother's murder even when the NougatBabySue apologized. 

And I have wanted to punch Cas for a long time now.

What an utterly annoying character Dabb has turned him into. Blech.

 Ugh! to the Jo and Ruby stuff. The story was bad and loaded with more lolcanon and spouses or not, neither one of them did anything for me. 

And I'm going to agree with whoever said they would watch the hell out of the AU Dean and Sam Show, especially if we could get more of Our Dean and Sam interacting with them.

Jacknatural is awful. Thank Chuck it's ending.

Oh, and I think that Billie is indeed holding back on the stuff that Dean brought up and maybe even more.

It was good to see Dean come up with a plan again and win a fight with demons, too.

 

 

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I liked the part when AU Sam and Dean were playing RPS in the wall/veil.  

Just another forgettable episode that didn't advance the story much.

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It took me a minute, but I think I got the double meaning to the title. ‘Destiny’s Child’ seems like it’s Jack ‘fulfilling his destiny’ and ALSO Destiny’s Child were three FABULOUS WOMEN: Jo, Meg, Ruby.   
 

quick thoughts:

1) wow, hiatus again... there were more questions than answers
2) some good humor - I love Meg’s sass, I miss her
3) ‘Samwitch’ - hee 
4) I don’t trust Death, I don’t trust The Empty, I don’t trust anyone but TFW 2.0.  Jack is back in the Circle of Trust (for now) because he has a soul. 
5) Jo/Ruby was a total retcon.   But I’m happy to give the boys some fond memories time.  
6) oh how I wish we could have had Crowley back. 
7) I like that Dean thinks Amara is part of the deal.  I suspect he’s cottoning on the he’s in the dark because it would be Winchester Dumb to try and save Amara (which they will and I’m here for that).
8 ) I’m feeling bereft with the Covid19Hiatus.

As mentioned above, the trans dimensional RPS was a win.  Nd I still don’t know where we are headed, but I found the episode entertaining. 

Edited by SueB
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8 hours ago, KayCordingly said:

Why are they making Dean such a dick these days? First he made a promise to Kia that he'd return her spear, then when she demanded it back he was like "lol I broke it too bad so sad". And this episode he tells alternate Sam & Dean to pretend to be them (probably knowing full well that Chuck would smite them in a heartbeat if he realized they were from another dimension), and when they get back he's just like "ok thanks now get the fuck out."

I don't think Dean owed Ninja Sue Kaia a single thing. She was a murderous wench who would've killed any of them in a heartbeat. Him not falling at her feet for forgiveness and actually talking like Dean was both unexpected and pleasant for me.

 

The AU pair, they are still hunters and knew what they were agreeing to. As for staying (apart from the logistics of the guys having to play two roles every time) they know the instant Chuck looked in and saw two sets of Winchesters he would kill them (the AUs) so sending them away was the best thing to do. Brazil though? Really? M'kay.

Edited by gonzosgirrl · Reason: Sigh.
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Well, it was somewhat more mindlessly entertaining than last week's or any random Berens episode. For all their faults - and they have SO many, like not being able to get through a single script without a lot of lol!canon (then again, who does?) - the one thing they don't have is outright animosity toward Dean or Sam. I mean, they clearly have their favorites, like Princess Jackie Poo Sue and Lucille, and their scripts are going to reflect the endgame Dabb has clearly laid out with Jackie Poo Sue being the sun and the moon and the stars, and the guys being ... there somewhere in the background, if you squint hard enough. Sigh.

But they don't outright despise them like Berens and Dabb do. So that's ... I don't know, something, one plus.

OTOH, cAsstiel is such a piece of crap, can the Empty please just keep him already? After treating Dean like garbage for months he's really going to disingenuously pretend to empathize with Dean in front of Jackie Poo Sue when he never did with Dean himself after Mary died? Yeah, right. Newsflash, Jackie, your wetnurse is a poser.

It was very cool to see Rachel Miner's Meg in the role of the Empty, though. I love to envision her torturing cAsstiel for eternity! That part made me smile bigly.

The Jo/Ruby thing was a cute idea, but being such a humongous retcon - like bigger than most - that I can't get past it. This is the same Ruby who was so freaked out by Anna and angels on earth that now I'm supposed to believe she and Jo were frenemies this whole time? Or that Jo was around that far back and not a product of the fall in season eight which she is supposed to have been?

And you know, I can't solely blame Buck-Lemming for all this lol!canon. Singer has been with the show this whole time - and Dabb was there since season four. It continues to be such an epic fail that these guys don't give a damn how nothing makes sense even when they know for a fact it doesn't because they were there!

The alt!versions of Dean and Sam were fun. At least it gave the Js something to do, even if they're not the stars of their own show anymore, and their characters have zero purpose. SOB.

For all the nits, it was moderately more entertaining than last week's. And there was an attempt to touch on some back canon, more than we've seen so far this season, even if it was mostly wrong.

If we don't see the show for another 6 months, eh, I'm good with it - which is sad.

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That was embarrassing. A bloated, endless stream of McGuffins pulled from the writers asses complete with verbal diarrhea/exposition, nonsensical "fanservice" cameos, characters who are radically different from last week's episode, and shitty humor.

 

I usually would blame BuckLeming, but I'm sick of doing that. They've been a known entity for years. Everybody knows they suck. It's not their fault the other writers spent the first half of the season with their thumbs up their butts and asked them to make the plot take a giant leap in a single episode. Nobody can make that happen in a satisfying way. Of course the end result would be a train wreck like this.

 

I guess one may be able to enjoy whatever the hell that was by completely turning their brains off. After all, a LOT of stuff happened. But I didn't sign up for this, I didn't follow this show for 14 years to be rewarded with low-quality, mindless entertainment. I can get that stuff elsewhere without being reminded that there used to be something great there once, before it turned into this drivel.

 

Seriously fuck this. That shit isn't even quarantine-worthy entertainment.

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I have to give this episode the ultimate label - boring.  I miss the days when Supernatural used to make me want to keep the lights on all night!  There's nothing the least bit scary or suspenseful about the show anymore.  I don't feel any tension from one scene to the next.  It's a very sad way to go out.

I did enjoy the alt-Sam and Dean and would have liked more interactions with them.  Whoever had the idea of the finale being several sets of Sams and Deans from other worlds combining together to defeat Chuck has my approbation!   That would have been a cool ending.  And it would have been a tear jerker if one by one they fell and maybe one of "our" originals wasn't left standing at the end.  What a fabulous idea!  I guess it will only happen in fan fiction.

Am I hallucinating or wasn't there an earlier visit to Eden by Dean?  Didn't he visit Heaven in an early season and meet some caretaker/gardener guy in the Garden?   Isn't that when he heard that God was for sure gone for parts unknown?

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6 minutes ago, Frost said:

Am I hallucinating or wasn't there an earlier visit to Eden by Dean?  Didn't he visit Heaven in an early season and meet some caretaker/gardener guy in the Garden?   Isn't that when he heard that God was for sure gone for parts unknown?

That was Heaven's Garden.  Each person sees it differently.  But, it was up in Heaven and not on Earth, so not Eden.

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16 minutes ago, Katy M said:

That was Heaven's Garden.  Each person sees it differently.  But, it was up in Heaven and not on Earth, so not Eden.

And didn't Joshua represent their surroundings as a garden/greenhouse because the guys had a somewhat happy memory of going to a place like that when they were kids? As I type that, I'm not truly sure I'm remembering that right.

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Maybe my bar is way low this season but I really enjoyed it. There were definitely canon problems and yet I enjoyed the scenes. I thought Jo and Ruby interacted well; loved alt AU Sam and Dean. 

Dean was smart pointing out the Amara balance thing. He kicked ass killing two demons in hell. He came up with the idea to use the other Sam/Dean. 

Mostly though he and Sam finally got a real apology and I'm there for it. 

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I wonder if their kinder gentler father is over here and will become part of tje boys lives?  I hope not. Jared really played up the fey aspect. I appreciated how subtle jensen's at Dean was but you could still see the differentiation. 

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The best part was the other Sam and Dean.  Other than that meh.  Another wasted episode.

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I thought it would have been funnier if the alternate Sam and Dean were reversed from ours--I'd like to see Jensen playing Dean being Sam 😊

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13 hours ago, SueB said:

It took me a minute, but I think I got the double meaning to the title. ‘Destiny’s Child’ seems like it’s Jack ‘fulfilling his destiny’ and ALSO Destiny’s Child were three FABULOUS WOMEN: Jo, Meg, Ruby.   
 

quick thoughts:

1) wow, hiatus again... there were more questions than answers
2) some good humor - I love Meg’s sass, I miss her
3) ‘Samwitch’ - hee 
4) I don’t trust Death, I don’t trust The Empty, I don’t trust anyone but TFW 2.0.  Jack is back in the Circle of Trust (for now) because he has a soul. 
5) Jo/Ruby was a total retcon.   But I’m happy to give the boys some fond memories time.  
6) oh how I wish we could have had Crowley back. 
7) I like that Dean thinks Amara is part of the deal.  I suspect he’s cottoning on the he’s in the dark because it would be Winchester Dumb to try and save Amara (which they will and I’m here for that).
8 ) I’m feeling bereft with the Covid19Hiatus.

As mentioned above, the trans dimensional RPS was a win.  Nd I still don’t know where we are headed, but I found the episode entertaining. 

Obviously the plan is for Death and the Empty to take over. Dean is keeping his cards to his chest however the writing is letting him be his best in this episode: strategizing, reading people, and getting down and stabby. It was unlike him to fall for Jo's con so easily....

Death isn't Chuck. She's smarter. If she needs Dean to play a specific role... that could get interesting.

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5 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Maybe my bar is way low this season but I really enjoyed it. There were definitely canon problems and yet I enjoyed the scenes. I thought Jo and Ruby interacted well; loved alt AU Sam and Dean. 

Dean was smart pointing out the Amara balance thing. He kicked ass killing two demons in hell. He came up with the idea to use the other Sam/Dean. 

Mostly though he and Sam finally got a real apology and I'm there for it. 

I throughly enjoyed it too! Might be my fave ep this season. I did notice the Jo and Ruby retcons, but I enjoyed seeing everyone- especially Meg! She was a pleasant surprise. I also liked Cas and his Empty foray, and that they remembered his deal. Of course alt Sam an Dean were so fun too! 

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7 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

And didn't Joshua represent their surroundings as a garden/greenhouse because the guys had a somewhat happy memory of going to a place like that when they were kids? As I type that, I'm not truly sure I'm remembering that right.

Yea! The Cleveland Botanical Gardens. They went there on a field trip. 

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20 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

How did alt Sam and Dean drive Baby when Dean, Sam, Cas, and Jack drove to the church in it?

My fanwank was that the alt!guys actually drove the lime green 2-seat Thunderbird that was sitting in the bunker garage. That seems more their speed.

Unfortunately, it's probably just that the lolcanon has grown so strong that things that happened 20 minutes earlier in the show can no longer escape being retconned for laughs.

 

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One thing I noticed, one of Dean's biggest strengths is his ability to adapt and make the best of things.   I love that this showed up in AU Dean too.  He grew to like the beer, the clothes and of course the car.  I like seeing that this seems to be a consistent trait in all Deans.  There was so much of Dean in AU Dean but they were two totally different characters. 

Jensen really is gifted. 

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3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

One thing I noticed, one of Dean's biggest strengths is his ability to adapt and make the best of things.   I love that this showed up in AU Dean too.  

Jensen really is gifted. 

Good point! One of my absolute favourite episodes is Folsom Prison Blues, I watch it all the time, Dean adapts to prison life with ease. Sam even grudgingly points it out several times.

The two wives scenes, the overcrowded Empty 🙄 and travelling sparkling souls could’ve all been cut back and we could’ve had more alternative world Dean & Sam.  It was so cool when they were in the wall.  Did you see the paper, rock, scissors? Dean exasperated and yelling. When I rewatched I fast forwarded thru all the lol-canon and just watched those scenes. It could’ve been the two of them exploring the bunker, checking out the flannel, the weapons, they could’ve even looked through that telescope. 

This awesome series is ending but it’s about everyone but the damn brothers. Why don’t they get that we want the brothers ... not an ensemble? 
 

Edited by Pondlass1
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10 hours ago, appositival said:

My fanwank was that the alt!guys actually drove the lime green 2-seat Thunderbird that was sitting in the bunker garage. That seems more their speed.

Unfortunately, it's probably just that the lolcanon has grown so strong that things that happened 20 minutes earlier in the show can no longer escape being retconned for laughs.

 

Yeah, I thought they meant one of the classic cars, too. Clearly our Dean had no idea which so he just went with it.

it was very nice seeing Rachel again. 

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I'll give an 8--DD has improved over the last few years...they are easily better than "PC" Berens.  Found it entertaining and the whole cast had good moments.

One thing struck me--the Empty said to Cas that he wasn't in Death's plan.  Could mean Cas is the wildcard that could help the boys with Death--who I don't trust at all...since Death might not account for Cas.  She obviously has the boys and Jack in her grand plans.  It also might mean Cas sacrifices himself to do this(hence the sad and redemptive ending)--I can't shake that feeling about Cas's fate.

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Overall, I thought it was a boring episode. 

I know the writers don't care anymore, and haven't for a long time, but why the hell did you make such a big deal out of Jack not using his powers else God might find him, yet he used his powers to "kill" Cas without a second thought or any repercussions? 

Any why weren't Cas & Dean helping Sam keep the damn door closed? They just stood around chit-chatting about Jack at one point while Sam screamed that he couldn't hold the hellhounds out any longer. 

Edited by Lunula · Reason: Left out a word
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It was so nice to see Rachel Miner again. She quit acting back in 2013 after her final appearance on "Supernatural" because of her MS diagnosis. I actually never thought she would return to her profession.

And now we saw her twice in one week, last week on "Chicago Fire" and now in this episode. She is was and always will be one of my favourite actresses, and I'm just so happy to see her coming back so strong and so full of life, despite of what she is going through. 

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17 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

It could’ve been the two of them exploring the bunker, checking out the flannel, the weapons, they could’ve even looked through that telescope. 

That would've been fun to watch, but they didn't seem too broken up about their world being destroyed and I didn't care for them being tossed out into a new world without a car or money or place to live.

I'm sick of the writers using this last season to try and throw in every damn person that's been a guest on the show. Their was no reason to have the 2 wives on and didn't Jo tell Ruby her dark hair look was an improvement over her blonde meatsuit? But in the flashbacks it was the dark hair Ruby we saw with Jo not the blonde. Or am I remembering that wrong? And Meg is the empty? I thought when Castiel was there and woke the empty up it was just a blob outline of a human form?

I didn't like this episode very much but that's not saying much, I haven't really liked an episode in a very long time. It's a shame what has happened to this show. In my opinion the angle/demon storyline went on years too long and ruined it. It hasn't been about 2 brothers hunting things, saving people in years. I'm so over Castiel, he was cool at first but overstayed his welcome and why isn't Jack an old man? He grew to the age he is now in what a days time so he should be at least 100 years old by now, lol. 

I thought when Jack was in the garden and we see the snake he was going to say "daddy" lol.

Wow, Jared is really starting to show his age, and I remember when he was the clean shaven brother but he has more stubble than Dean now.

 

 

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2 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

And Meg is the empty? I thought when Castiel was there and woke the empty up it was just a blob outline of a human form?

Apparently the Empty can take on any form it wants. It chose Meg to cause the most distress to Castiel.

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On 3/23/2020 at 9:26 PM, ILoveReading said:

How did alt Sam and Dean drive Baby when Dean, Sam, Cas, and Jack drove to the church in it?

I'm with others thinking they drove one of the other cars in the bunker garage, but Dean isn't thinking clearly when someone says they found "the car" and assumes otherwise. I was amused at how other Dean was slowly morphing into regular Dean. I feel like HunterCorp must be a successor to the Men of Letters.

I've never been a big fan of Rachel Miner's Meg, chemistry with Cas notwithstanding, but I was incredibly happy for her getting to make a return appearance and the empty was a good way to explain her not being active. Her appearance was much more believable than the Jo/Ruby one, although I don't think I can blame them for wanting to work together on the show once.

On 3/24/2020 at 1:31 AM, SueB said:

ALSO Destiny’s Child were three FABULOUS WOMEN: Jo, Meg, Ruby

And some of those women were replacements for the originals.

 

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17 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Apparently the Empty can take on any form it wants. It chose Meg to cause the most distress to Castiel.

Yep. It took on Cas' form in its first appearance for instance.

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Dean killed Ruby.  Sam held her arms while Dean stabbed her. 

The writers wanted a Ruby cameo, but they couldn't think of a good way to do it. 

Using flashbacks with dead characters can work.  They did it in a season five episode of 'Person of Interest' and they did it really well in 'Highlander'.  Unfortunately, the writers of this episode don't know their SPN history and didn't do a good job here.  Or they do and just don't care. 

I hadn't realized, til this episode, that demons could go to The Empty.  I thought it was just angels.   

 

 

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I finally got around to watching this episode. I haven't seen the last two eps, but I was intrigued by alt-Dean and decided to give it a try.

I really liked the softer way Jensen played the other Dean. It would make sense if alt-Dean had been raised by a kinder, gentler John, maybe one who didn't lose his own father and had grown up as one of the Men of Letters. (But still a Romeo and Juliet romance with Mary, the daugher of hunters?) Interesting, though, that there was no mention of Mary by the other WInchesters. 

I love (not really) that Hell is now basically a place they can come in and out of at will. And Cas wandering through the empty yelling for Ruby made me LOL. 

I thought it was interesting that they had Ruby say "you" killed me to Sam when they had just shown a clip of Dean stabbing her. Maybe she really meant "y'all." 

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So Sam and Dean needed their doppelgangers to pose for them in case Chuck checked in.  So if Chuck just randomly checks in wouldn't he already know that Jack is back?   

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This episode was better than many this season - but that's not saying much -  mostly for the scenes with our guys and AU!guys. Jensen did a great job with AU!Dean - his voice was even different. And I loved how AU!Dean (just like our Dean) adjusted very easily to a different life in the bunker - including the flannel.

I'm glad Dean brought up Amara and the balance of the universe - it's about time someone did. And of course, Jack!Sue is back to full strength so he can be all he can be. 😞 If they make Dean apologize to him for his anger after Jack killed his mother, I'll barf. 

Of course the Duo slaughtered canon as usual. I don't think I've ever seen an episode by them that hasn't. They would be out on their collective asses elsewhere.

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On 3/29/2020 at 1:53 PM, Casseiopeia said:

So Sam and Dean needed their doppelgangers to pose for them in case Chuck checked in.  So if Chuck just randomly checks in wouldn't he already know that Jack is back?   

Writing is hard.

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I was rewatching and have a couple questions. Dean said something about Cas and Jo working together, and I can't for the life of me remember what that was about.  Also, I noticed that when Cas was wandering around the Empty looking for Ruby, his movement looked awkward,  almost lurching.  Was this filmed close to the time of Misha's surgery? 

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Also noticed that Alt Dean and Sam praise Alt John as the best dad  ever, but then a couple breaths later they casually mention losing him when they came through the rift. Considering they know Chuck nuked  their world behind them, they dont seem too broken up about dear old dad.

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5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I was rewatching and have a couple questions. Dean said something about Cas and Jo working together, and I can't for the life of me remember what that was about.  Also, I noticed that when Cas was wandering around the Empty looking for Ruby, his movement looked awkward,  almost lurching.  Was this filmed close to the time of Misha's surgery? 

Dean was talking about when Cas asked Jo to help him communicate with Chuck and they were looking for some sort of object. It was a late season 14 ep. 

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