Tiger King - General Discussion

[Growsonwalls]

Omg at this tweet:

And this:

 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[Enero]

4 hours ago, jabinlbc said:

However, Big Cat Rescue is actually a very good animal sanctuary, and takes in big cats who have been in captivity in circuses and roadside zoos, or were "pets" that people could no longer handle.  Once they have been in captivity and can't go back to the wild, they really have nowhere else to go.

I have actually been there once, and their enclosures are quite spacious and well kept, and the volunteers do seem happy to be there. 

I took a look at the Big Cat Rescue website and based on the videos there, their set up appears to be pretty solid. Carol looks to have a team of legitimate leaders (not homeless folks plucked off the street) who help manage all aspects of the business, from operations to animal management. The live cameras of the habitats look to be pretty spacious. They appear to be handling the animals appropriately. Working with them through cages, never sharing an enclosure with them unless the animal is fully sedated and being taken in for a medical procedure etc. 

That said, I do question their process for feeding the animals. The keepers get pretty close to the fence, put the meat on a stick then extend the stick into the enclosure. This of course is better than walking amongst the cats or sticking their hand in the fence to feed them but it still seems somewhat risky due to how close the keepers are to the fences. Also there looks to be not much of a barrier between where visitors would stand and the fence where the cats are enclosed.  It looked as if someone could easily step over that barrier and walk up to the fence if they wanted. That would not be good because the links on the fences are fairly wide, big enough for the cat to clamp down, especially on a child’s hand and take it off if given the opportunity. 

I don’t have a problem with the different level of volunteers. Sounds like that system is in place to ensure that these individuals fully understand the process and procedures for taking care of the animals. Once they have volunteered for the required amount of time and are well trained on the procedures etc. they can then “graduate” to a level where they’re able to assist with some of the “cool” things they do for the animals, like medical procedures, feedings etc.

Lastly, I do find it interesting that in order to intern, you must pay $450 up front. If you’re selected you get free housing and food (wonder what this looks like. Hopefully not the deplorable conditions of Joe and Dr. Antle’s set-up) for the 12-week internship and $150 a week pay. The latter of which is outrageous. 
 

 

 

[sainte-chapelle]

OMG I was watching 'Fatal Attractions' on YouTube and who appears as a Tiger Expert? Good old Carol Baskins. The episode is called Tigers Unleashed and she appears at around the 20 min mark. This makes me lose faith in Animal Planet because after doing independent research I do not trust her, where the hell are her credentials?

I am not saying this isn't true but Carol goes on the describe everyone who works at the roadside Zoos mentioned (none involving Joe Exotic) as drug addicts. I sense a pattern. She loves to shout from the rooftops how great she is, meanwhile her ex-husband abused these animals and she used her inheritance as a vanity project to make herself look good. She has zero formal training and has no interest in seeing these animals in the wild.

Edited March 31, 2020 by sainte-chapelle

[Growsonwalls]

This article gives way more backstory to Joe and Carole:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/joe-exotic-and-his-american-animals.html

[Cheezwiz]

5 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

As I combed through that linked Twitter thread, this one tweet about Carole (#12) caught my eye:

Yowza @Giant Misfit, that is some juicy stuff you dug up!

First of all, during my binge as I watched the old video footage of Kirkham, who appears to have once had a legit career in TV broadcasting, I kept thinking " wow, what the hell happened to him?" I know those video clips from earlier in his career are probably at least 25 years old, but he looks 900 years old now, and just completely wrecked. Now I know why. 

I wasn't able to make out the details of Carole's ex-beau's legal documents (they wouldn't enlarge enough for me to read), but colour me completely unsurprised that there are restraining orders that have been put out on her. Probably not the only one is my guess.

 

[xaxat]

Shaquille O'Neal addresses appearance on Netflix's 'Tiger King,' says he 'had no idea' what went on behind scenes at zoo

[AheadofStraight]

11 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

This article gives way more backstory to Joe and Carole:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/joe-exotic-and-his-american-animals.html

I was just coming here to see if this had been posted. Really long but a lot more details!!!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

11 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

This article gives way more backstory to Joe and Carole:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/joe-exotic-and-his-american-animals.html

 

26 minutes ago, AheadofStraight said:

I was just coming here to see if this had been posted. Really long but a lot more details!!!

FYI - this article is based on the podcast so you may find the podcast of interest. It has a lot more details that were not included in the show. There’s a link to it on the previous page!

Edited March 31, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

23 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I could watch a whole documentary about Don, his first family, Carole, and his business manager.  You can also throw in his lawyer.  

I’m still not over the fact that his first wife was 14 when he married her. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

This is an article from 2012 about Eric Goode, the documentarian who spent five years making Tiger King:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/01/23/slow-and-steady
 

Quote

Like most people, only more so, Eric Goode operates in several worlds. He started out in New York, in the seventies, as an artist, constructing vitrines à la Joseph Cornell. Keith Haring curated his first group show. In 1983, Goode and three partners opened Area, the art-house night club. Haring painted the skate ramp. Andy Warhol did the T-shirts. David Hockney did the pool. Jean-Michel Basquiat painted the windows. A recent Times story about the heyday of Area included a photograph of a young Goode vamping with a young Madonna. He opened other clubs with other partners. He built and bought trendy hotels—the Maritime, the Bowery, the Jane, Lafayette House—and restaurants, including Time Café, the Bowery Bar, and the Waverly Inn. These chic establishments have made Goode a wealthy man. He used to date Naomi Campbell.

Edited March 31, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[tennisgurl]

22 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Because there is literally nothing that is too weird to be connected to this story, the alligators that were killed in the fire that took out the video studio had been owned by Michael Jackson.

...because of course they were. 

[xaxat]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

This is an article from 2012 about Eric Goode, the documentarian who spent five years making Tiger King:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/01/23/slow-and-steady
 

That is one of the most astounding collection of name drops I have ever read in a single paragraph.

He palled around with some the greatest artists of the twentieth century and helped create some of the most iconic locations in New York City. Yet he will always be remembered for making a documentary about crazy big cat owners.

Edited March 31, 2020 by xaxat

[Hero]

I fucking hate everyone in this documentary. I feel so badly for those poor animals. They all look so sad and are definitely underfed. How the animals are living is despicable. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Hero

[punkypower]

Exactly, @Hero!!

I can't remember if it was this thread or one of the many FB groups I joined (yes, I need help), but the filmmakers were told (by Netflix? Investors?) to downplay the animal cruelty and focus on the bat-shit personalities.

I think the ending hit it home. Saff talk about the animals not benefiting and the campaign manager talking about the money that should have gone to the animals. Rick said how hard he had to make it look like Joe cared. The scene of the chimpanzees' hands and tigers' paws clutching the cages still haunts me, as does the fact they showed about there being more tigers in captivity than in the wild.

[Hero]

59 minutes ago, punkypower said:

Exactly, @Hero!!

I can't remember if it was this thread or one of the many FB groups I joined (yes, I need help), but the filmmakers were told (by Netflix? Investors?) to downplay the animal cruelty and focus on the bat-shit personalities.

I think the ending hit it home. Saff talk about the animals not benefiting and the campaign manager talking about the money that should have gone to the animals. Rick said how hard he had to make it look like Joe cared. The scene of the chimpanzees' hands and tigers' paws clutching the cages still haunts me, as does the fact they showed about there being more tigers in captivity than in the wild.

Those animals stuck in cages made me furious. Those two chimpanzees hugging, that made me teary eyed because they're so innocent and only know of being caged and of nothing else.

[tennisgurl]

...What an absolute shitshow. 

My God, this thing was like a three ring circus of crazy, skeaziness, and incompetence, and it would all be hilarious if so many of the people involved weren't so awful and didn't harm so many innocent animals. Seeing all of those tigers and animals in those crappy tiny cages, so clearly hungry and mistreated, it really was so terribly anger inducing and heartbreaking! I love tigers, always have, and seeing them treated so poorly by people who are just using them to make money and to look cool and/or good, its just so awful. The ending I think hit it home, as some of Joe Exotics former employees lament that so much of the time and money used up in this pointless animal war could have been used to actually help tigers living in their natural habitat. Not one single animal was helped by all of this. 

Like, I think that Carol comes off as super sketchy, even before I heard about the very questionable and suspicious circumstances surrounding the death of her husband, I thought there was something seriously off about her. Her weird empty laughs, the strange dynamic with her husband (he seems more like an assistant than a spouse), those freaking flower crowns like she is some kind of flower child Earth Mother, how she apparently cant be bothered to learn the names of her own volunteers or employees even after they've worked there for years, despite the fact that her mission seems more noble than Joe or Docs or the other roadside animal people, in practice, she is just the other side of the same coin. While I am not here to say for sure whether or not Carol killed her first husband, because there really isn't much evidence...its all very suspicious, and it really feels like the investigation didn't dig too deep into Carol as a possible suspect, despite what seems like some very suspicious behavior on her part, both before and after his death. Even when Carol is talking about him on the documentary, she hardly even seems to pretend to care that he died, and was just happy when she talked about all that money she got the second she could declare him dead. Granted, it sounded like Don was a pretty sleazy womanizer himself and their marriage wasn't in any kind of good place, but still, there is just something about her that says she could kill someone and not lose sleep about it. That all being said, for all that Joe tried to play his vendetta against Carol as getting justice for her dead husband or the animals she has or that she should be in jail, he so obviously gives not one single fuck about justice, or those animals or her dead husband or his family, this is all about him and the fact that Carol trash talked him, and their stupid, petty feud. Its really the same with Carol, and with all of these wild cat people. Its all about themselves and their massive egos, be it Carol wanting to style herself as the big cat Mother Theresa (despite her roadside sanctuary looking basically just like every other one we saw) or Joe and his grandiose self aggrandizing as a big badass Tiger King and superstar.

You could probably do a whole Netflix documentary on just about single single person even tangentially involved in this whole clusterfuck, its kind of amazing. Don and Carol and the whole extended family, Creepy Doc and his harem (doctor of mystic arts, ok Doctor Strange), the strip club owner guy, its just a freaking parade of crazy. There really were no heroes to be found here, and the only people I felt sorry for were the clearly vulnerable people that were being sucked into the orbit of these people, like the homeless and desperate people that worked insanely long hours and did very dangerous work for almost nothing for Joe because they felt like they owed him, the women in Docs creepy harem, or Travis, who was clearly depressed, addicted to drugs, mentally unstable, and stuck in this abusive and controlling relationship before he died a tragic and pointless death. Honestly, I kind of wonder if his death really was an accident, or, if in a moment of depression while high, he impulsively shot himself. I dont know the statistics exactly, but I have always heard that a pretty high number of suicides or suicide attempts are from people who didn't actually have a plan to kill themselves, but found themselves drunk or high, sad, and with access to something they can use to hurt themselves (especially guns) and just did it. I dont know that for sure, just speculation, but its a really sad situation. 

I did call right away that whoever was singing in those crazy ass music videos, it sure as hell wasn't Joe Exotic. 

Its nuts how these wild cat "rescue" people are not only about seven hundred pounds of bizarre, but they also all seem to have these weird cults of personality that spring up around them. Doc and his harem of wives/assistants who he can get to get breast implants, Joe and his husbands and all these other people that were really loyal to him (was it me, or was his last husband, Dillon, insanely young looking? He looked like a freaking teenager in some of those pictures) and even Carol and her weird system of volunteering, having people pay to get to work there and the weird tee shirt designations, even though she apparently cant be bothered to learn a single person at the places name (she probably requires her husband to wear a name tag so she wont have to actually remember), its all just so bizarre, like the cult designation comes with your first tiger. The shirt thing is just so weird, it feels like Scientology to me. Just with more cats and less aliens. 

One of those stories that is so over the top crazy, that it all has to be true. I really really hope that someone better is taking care of those animals. 

[AheadofStraight]

31 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

.. Joe and his husbands and all these other people that were really loyal to him (was it me, or was his last husband, Dillon, insanely young looking? He looked like a freaking teenager in some of those pictures)

I think only one of his "husbands" was over 20 when they met - the one who is in jail for murder and not mentioned on the show was "20-something". John Finley had just graduated high school. Brian, the first husband (not mentioned on show) was 19. Was Travis 19 when he met him? Dillon looks right out of high school too. 

[qtpye]

https://slate.com/culture/2020/03/tiger-king-netflix-carole-baskin-villain.html
 

I have no love for Carol but this article brings up some interesting points.

[druzy]

[Neurochick]

I watched this last weekend.  Damn, what a train wreck, but I was there for it. 

I don't need someone to root for when watching a movie or TV show.  I only need someone to root for if I'm watching sports, and not always then.  I like watching shows for the subject matter and this show was certainly interesting, I could not look away.

Joe and Carole to me, are two sides of the same coin.  Both want attention, both use animals in order to get that attention.  That "Doc" person was running some kind of bizarre cult, he was like R. Kelly with tigers.  All of these people realized that there are many folks who love taking photos with lion and tiger cubs and putting them on their social media.

Joe is in jail because he's stupid.  You cannot go around making videos saying how much you want to blow someone's head off, and then make videos of what you would do to said person.  Can't do that today Joe, even if it is just a joke, that's how Kathy Griffin got in trouble.

Someone on YouTube reviewed this show and said that they need to put all of them in jail and then film that for a reality show.  None of these people gave a shit about the animals they were supposed to help.  Yes, I think they should lock them all up. 

[Growsonwalls]

The Slate article makes some interesting points but Carole still is a shitty person. The thing that I disliked for her was that despite all her woo-woo posturing she doesn't really seem to care about anyone. Not the tigers, not her employees, not her husband or dead husband. It's just all about her, all the time. It looks like the bulk of the work with the tigers is being run by her volunteers. Does she care about her tigers? I'd say she cares about the publicity and money it brings her. 

[Liamsmom617]

On 3/24/2020 at 3:03 PM, AntAnn said:

This show is absolutely crazy. Does anyone else think Carole’s husband looks like Prince Charles? 

Unfortunately, to me he resembles a thinner Mitch McConnell.

[sainte-chapelle]

49 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

The Slate article makes some interesting points but Carole still is a shitty person. The thing that I disliked for her was that despite all her woo-woo posturing she doesn't really seem to care about anyone. Not the tigers, not her employees, not her husband or dead husband. It's just all about her, all the time. It looks like the bulk of the work with the tigers is being run by her volunteers. Does she care about her tigers? I'd say she cares about the publicity and money it brings her. 

I also disagree with the claim that she is painted as the main villain. I though Joe and the others were all painted as Pieces of shit and rightfully so. The only likeable characters were the animals. Though the one zookeeper drunkenly crying about witnessing Joe shooting the tigers really got me. He seemed to genuinely care for the animals and tried his best to keep them fed. The man obviously had nowhere else to go. 

[Fostersmom]

On 3/28/2020 at 6:47 PM, kendi said:

It's really sickening. None of them appear to be educated. They like the baby cubs but after that 6 month mark, those tigers are as good as dead. That one man that purposely unleashed the animals in the middle of the night should have been shot on the spot. The dead bodies of those animals made me want to vomit.

I think you are talking about the guy in Zanesville, Ohio. He let them out about late afternoon, one of his neighbors saw the first one about 6pm. From the police reports, he opened some of the cages, cut open others, then apparently put a bunch of raw chicken down, and then killed himself right in the middle of the chicken so that the animals would maul him. 

On 3/29/2020 at 6:05 AM, Aliferously said:

I think Carol's dead husband was probably caught speaking to a low level "volunteer" (just wtf with that system?) and therefore had to die. One does not acknowledge the slaves until they wear the right colour t shirt. 

I don't think the volunteers started until after the husband was dead. 

On 3/29/2020 at 7:02 AM, Spicy Bubbles said:

Well I for one was snookered. I did feel there was a disconnect between Joe's speaking and singing voice, but I never thought it was a Milli Vanilli situation.

I'm watching the last episode now and hd already read he wasn't the real singer and knowing that, it's kind of obvious it wasn't him singing. But I don't know if I would have picked it up if I didn't already know. 

On 3/29/2020 at 7:02 AM, Spicy Bubbles said:

On 3/29/2020 at 6:23 PM, raeb23 said:

I agree. It makes for compelling tv but there isn't any real evidence tying her to murder. I could believe that she tampered with his will though. 

While her current views on tiger breeding and cub exploitation and support of legislation to protect these animals are laudable, she's isn't altruistic. Her advocacy is about herself as much as the cats. I think she enjoys being in the public eye, like Joe. She said at one point that a possible positive outcome of her murder would be bringing attention to animal rights abuses. That says a lot about how her self-worth is tied up in her advocacy. Basically, it seemed that she sees herself as a matyr.

 

I 100% think she did something with the will, possibly knows something about his death, but don't think she fed him to tigers. 

On 3/29/2020 at 8:55 PM, Growsonwalls said:

I thought Carole had the coldest affect when talking about her "late" husband. She made sure to mention in her passive aggressive way that he was a really shitty person and a shittier husband. 

See, here's the thing, so did his ex-wife and daughters. So, did his friends and colleagues, so is it really any surprise he disappeared? 

On 3/29/2020 at 10:58 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Reading between the lines,  Don was a shitty person and a shitty husband.   He had checked out of his marriage to Carole since he found someone new and was in the process of hiding assets before the divorce.   Something tells me he did the same to his first wife.  She and their daughters were trying to paint him in a better life, but I can't help to think he treated them like shit for years before he disappeared.   

Yep. The guy who said Don told him he was going to pull off his biggest thing yet in Costa Rica probably actually knows more than he's ever said.

On 3/30/2020 at 11:18 AM, GiuliettaMasina said:

I'm with those who aren't convinced Carole did it. I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if she did, but I'd need a lot more evidence. If she was a sex worker when they met (I think her origin story is fiction, too), that says a lot worse about Don than it does about her.

One thing I am convinced of is that Don was no different than Doc or Joe. Someone who preyed on vulnerable people and animals and got a kick out of flouting reasonable laws. And, like them, he not only had plenty of enemies, he also took plenty of stupid risks.

Don was all about selling the cubs. He just happened to disappear before this was made.

On 3/30/2020 at 5:03 PM, jabinlbc said:

I have actually been there once, and their enclosures are quite spacious and well kept, and the volunteers do seem happy to be there.  Also, they do not do any breeding, and as there are no cubs, there is no cub petting or other human contact/interaction with the cats.  Their tours are really quite educational.  They also have a whole separate building with a kitten nursery and cat adoptions!.  Obviously it would be better if these cats were in the wild, but sadly that is not possible...

House cats, right? 

22 hours ago, Enero said:

I don’t have a problem with the different level of volunteers. Sounds like that system is in place to ensure that these individuals fully understand the process and procedures for taking care of the animals. Once they have volunteered for the required amount of time and are well trained on the procedures etc. they can then “graduate” to a level where they’re able to assist with some of the “cool” things they do for the animals, like medical procedures, feedings etc.

Lastly, I do find it interesting that in order to intern, you must pay $450 up front. If you’re selected you get free housing and food (wonder what this looks like. Hopefully not the deplorable conditions of Joe and Dr. Antle’s set-up) for the 12-week internship and $150 a week pay. The latter of which is outrageous. 

I kinda get the paying to be an intern. I'd imagine there's plenty of people who want to just play with the cats, feed them, but not do any actual work. Or be meth addicts like the ones Joe recruited. If you're willing to pay $450, and work your way up, you are obviously serious about it. 

 

I find it interesting they all hate Carole.... but honestly, I think they hate she's a woman not turning her staff into a methed up sex cult. I mean, how the hell hasn't Joe or Doc been charged with rape yet? Or sex trafficking? The really scary part is there's a crazy about of people who think Doc is like the best guy ever (of course they think what ever he does with his many "wives" is his own business) and he runs the bestest place ever. 

[Fostersmom]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Joe is in jail because he's stupid.  You cannot go around making videos saying how much you want to blow someone's head off, and then make videos of what you would do to said person.  Can't do that today Joe, even if it is just a joke, that's how Kathy Griffin got in trouble.

I just watched the last segment  and all I could think at the very end was how ironic it would be if Joe decides to spill the truth about the whole industry and brings them all crashing down. He obviously knows things and seems like just the type to rat them all out to try to get out of jail earlier. 

[sainte-chapelle]

22 minutes ago, Fostersmom said:

I just watched the last segment  and all I could think at the very end was how ironic it would be if Joe decides to spill the truth about the whole industry and brings them all crashing down. He obviously knows things and seems like just the type to rat them all out to try to get out of jail earlier. 

If Joe did a tell-all from jail I would watch the hell out of that.

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, sainte-chapelle said:

I also disagree with the claim that she is painted as the main villain. I though Joe and the others were all painted as Pieces of shit and rightfully so. The only likeable characters were the animals. Though the one zookeeper drunkenly crying about witnessing Joe shooting the tigers really got me. He seemed to genuinely care for the animals and tried his best to keep them fed. The man obviously had nowhere else to go. 

I thought the girl who left Doc's harem and was crying about her favorite tiger seemed like she might have cared for the animals too. 

[Linderhill]

On 3/30/2020 at 11:42 PM, Growsonwalls said:

This article gives way more backstory to Joe and Carole:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/joe-exotic-and-his-american-animals.html

this is an excellent article.  It's about the most balanced one I've read so far.

[AntAnn]

 

1 minute ago, AntAnn said:

If Joe did a tell-all from jail I would watch the hell out of that.

 

 

You know he’ll do it. How could he not?

Edited April 1, 2020 by AntAnn

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 hours ago, Fostersmom said:

I kinda get the paying to be an intern. I'd imagine there's plenty of people who want to just play with the cats, feed them, but not do any actual work. Or be meth addicts like the ones Joe recruited. If you're willing to pay $450, and work your way up, you are obviously serious about it.

A woman I follow online runs a wildlife sanctuary. She takes in abandoned and injured animals (raccoons, foxes, possums, and squirrels), rehabs them, and releases them into the wild. People contact her asking to volunteer and a lot of them flake (never show up) or they end up only doing it for a week or two. Too many people only think about holding tiny baby animals and don't realize that most of the work is cleaning the cages, building/repairing enclosures, hauling supplies, etc.

I also did a lot of volunteer work in college and many organizations have similar issues. People contact them about volunteering and many of them either don't show up on their first day or they leave after a very short amount of time. Some organizations required volunteers to sign a contract saying that they would commit to volunteering there for a certain amount of time (it's not really enforceable but it makes people more serious about being there).

And when your volunteer duties require training, it becomes a drain on the organization's resources to take time away from actual work when you keep wasting time training volunteers who drop out. For all of these reasons, I understand Carole asking for volunteers to pay a fee to get them to commit to being there. You're a lot less likely to flake after a week if you've forked over some cash.

As for not being paid, that's why it's called a volunteer position and not a paid position. I'm not trying to defend Carole or sound like an asshole, but there is a difference between having a job and being a volunteer. Like I said, I did a lot of volunteer work in college and I went into each of those places knowing that I would not be paid. I did it because I wanted to be there and I wanted to help. I'm not saying that Carole is a saint or anything, but it's not like she's tricking people into working there for free.

And there are legit zoos that have volunteer positions as well so it's not unheard of in the industry.

5 hours ago, sainte-chapelle said:

If Joe did a tell-all from jail I would watch the hell out of that.

 

2 hours ago, AntAnn said:

You know he’ll do it. How could he not?

I'm sure he'll do it for the right price!

[Ohiopirate02]

10 hours ago, sainte-chapelle said:

I also disagree with the claim that she is painted as the main villain. I though Joe and the others were all painted as Pieces of shit and rightfully so. The only likeable characters were the animals. Though the one zookeeper drunkenly crying about witnessing Joe shooting the tigers really got me. He seemed to genuinely care for the animals and tried his best to keep them fed. The man obviously had nowhere else to go. 

I do think the doc could have had at least one person on Carole's side as it were.  It was pretty unbalanced with Carole all by her lonesome as someone against these roadside zoos with the addition of Doc Antle.  A zoologist or vet not affiliated with Big Cat Rescue would have gone a long way to help show a more balanced picture or interview another reputable big cat rescue.  Carole is a deeply unlikeable woman and I think that is why so many people on social media are painting her as a villain.  

[Enero]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

As for not being paid, that's why it's called a volunteer position and not a paid position. I'm not trying to defend Carole or sound like an asshole, but there is a difference between having a job and being a volunteer. Like I said, I did a lot of volunteer work in college and I went into each of those places knowing that I would not be paid. I did it because I wanted to be there and I wanted to help. I'm not saying that Carole is a saint or anything, but it's not like she's tricking people into working there for free.

And there are legit zoos that have volunteer positions as well so it's not unheard of in the industry.

Correct. Volunteers are not expected to be paid anywhere really. But I am side eying how little the interns get paid, who are actually staff for the organization even if it’s only for a temporary period. When I worked for a local zoo we paid our interns at least minimum wage. However, with Carol classifying the $125.00 a week that’s paid to the interns as an allowance for food and incidentals, she’s able to skirt FLSA laws. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm only on Episode 2 of this thing, so, I'll hold off on a firm opinion, until, I've seen it all.  I will say that I was aghast when I saw the first few minutes.  I quickly thought, Man, these are good actors! It seems so real.  I knew it was labeled a true story, but, somehow it seemed out of the realm of reality.  Surely, this was fabricated drama.  Even as I read this thread, I had to go online and look at real news stories, to confirm this is not a big fabrication. 

I've been to Myrtle Beach many times, but, have never paid much attention to animal safari type attractions. Plus, I wouldn't pay $500.  to hold a tiger cub.  

[Avaleigh]

13 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

The Slate article makes some interesting points but Carole still is a shitty person. The thing that I disliked for her was that despite all her woo-woo posturing she doesn't really seem to care about anyone. Not the tigers, not her employees, not her husband or dead husband. It's just all about her, all the time. It looks like the bulk of the work with the tigers is being run by her volunteers. Does she care about her tigers? I'd say she cares about the publicity and money it brings her. 

I feel the same way. Even if we edit all of the shady mentions of the first husband out of the final cut, I didn't think that she came across well in the scenes where she's interacting with her employees. I don't think that editing can be blamed for how she behaved in those scenes. 

12 hours ago, sainte-chapelle said:

I also disagree with the claim that she is painted as the main villain. I though Joe and the others were all painted as Pieces of shit and rightfully so. The only likeable characters were the animals. 

I too disagreed with the article in terms of its claim that Carole was presented as the main villain. The main players were all awful. Jeff, Joe, Doc, the Chucky doll on the jet ski? They all oozed slime and venom in every single scene. At no point did I walk away from this thinking that they're all better people than Carole. 

I also acknowledged that Carole's "sanctuary" is a better place for the animals to be than at Joe's/Jeff's or Doc's. That being said, even after visiting their site, I think that conditions could be improved for the animals at Big Cat Rescue. I also would love to know how all of the donation money is spent.

To me it was unsurprising to find out from Goode that Joe wasn't interested to learn more what life is like for big cats who grow up in the wild.

What was more surprising (and disappointing) was that Carole showed the same lack of intellectual curiosity as Joe in terms of not wanting to know more about what life is like for big cats who live in the wild from beginning to end. It's like they don't really want to know about stuff like this because it will somewhow disrupt the artificial worlds that they've created for themselves where they get (or got in Joe's case) to be king and queen.

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I do think the doc could have had at least one person on Carole's side as it were.  It was pretty unbalanced with Carole all by her lonesome as someone against these roadside zoos with the addition of Doc Antle.  A zoologist or vet not affiliated with Big Cat Rescue would have gone a long way to help show a more balanced picture or interview another reputable big cat rescue.  Carole is a deeply unlikeable woman and I think that is why so many people on social media are painting her as a villain.  

I agree that it would have been nice to get an interview from somebody who works at another reputable sanctuary just to see how it would compare to Carole's. 

Still I think we saw people in the doc who are on Carole's side. Of course they were all affiliated with Big Cat Rescue but at least we got to hear from multiple people who think that everything Carole is doing for the animals is great. We also got to see her political efforts. I actually felt frustrated on her behalf when she was explaining how difficult it was to get politicians to listen to her after they'd only recently had hands on animal interaction with one of her rivals. 

When it comes to editing reality shows, I have to paraphrase Bethenny Frankel. The showrunners work with what you give them. We saw Carole in a variety of different environments. At work, at home, with employees, with her daughter, with her husband and on her own. Even if there had been a vet or somebody not affiliated with BCR being interviewed to help balance things out, IMO we still would have seen the self centered side that is apparent throughout all of Carole's interviews. 

[tennisgurl]

Everybody in this thing has a one way ticket to the Hot Mess Express. Carol, Joe, Jeff, Doc, all just the same sort of person with slightly different haircuts. 

14 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Joe is in jail because he's stupid.  You cannot go around making videos saying how much you want to blow someone's head off, and then make videos of what you would do to said person. 

Probably why Joe is the only one of these weirdos actually in jail, he happens to be the stupidest of all of them. I mean, who broadcasts a billion videos of how you want to kill a person...and then hires a hitman over the phone to kill them?! All any prosecutor needed to do to get his ass convicted was to show videos of Joe beating up a Carol themed sex doll and screaming Die Bitch like some deranged Harlem Shake video.  

I am also very suspicious about that fire that burned his videos and his alligators. I feel like Joe probably burnt that down himself to hide evidence and to create sympathy for himself. 

[jabinlbc]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 7:37 PM, Enero said:

That said, I do question their process for feeding the animals. The keepers get pretty close to the fence, put the meat on a stick then extend the stick into the enclosure. This of course is better than walking amongst the cats or sticking their hand in the fence to feed them but it still seems somewhat risky due to how close the keepers are to the fences. Also there looks to be not much of a barrier between where visitors would stand and the fence where the cats are enclosed.  It looked as if someone could easily step over that barrier and walk up to the fence if they wanted. That would not be good because the links on the fences are fairly wide, big enough for the cat to clamp down, especially on a child’s hand and take it off if given the opportunity. 

 

 

 

 

 

When I visited Big Cat Rescue, I actually took the feeding tour (it was first thing in the morning before it got too hot).  Though they may feed some that way, I did not see any of them fed with meat on sticks.  The enclosures have these extensions with gates at both ends.  The feeder puts the meat at one end of the extension, closes the gate, and then opens the other gate to let the cat in to eat.

[BitterApple]

I'm on episode 4, and sweet baby Jesus, what a glorious trainwreck. I feel like I'm watching the bizarre lovechild of Jerry Springer and every LivePd segment filmed in Florida. 

 

[dariafan]

On 3/29/2020 at 2:35 PM, Growsonwalls said:

This EW interview gives some insight into Carole's charge that the Netflix producers lied to her:

https://ew.com/tv/tiger-king-producers-respond-to-carole-baskin-criticism/

I was struck by this quote:

Thats the thing that struck me about Carole. That she really thought she was some Jane Goodall type person when the fact is she runs a crappy roadside zoo and doesn't even pay her workers but gives them different colored t-shirts.

I bet she makes them pay for the shirts 

[Fostersmom]

11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm sure he'll do it for the right price!

So... a couple hundred dollars and a 18 year old boy? 

[Growsonwalls]

Omg. OJ Simpson has weighed in on whether Carole did it or not. I cant. 

 

[BitterApple]

Shouldn't OJ's free time be spent looking for his wife's real killer?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I also would love to know how all of the donation money is spent.

Septic tank maintenance, probably. The last thing Carole wants is that thing going on the fritz. Never know what might be found.

[Fostersmom]

I don't think she fed him to tigers, but if she did kill him, wouldn't it have just been easier to dump the body and let the gators get him? 

[SongbirdHollow]

5 hours ago, jabinlbc said:

When I visited Big Cat Rescue, I actually took the feeding tour (it was first thing in the morning before it got too hot).  Though they may feed some that way, I did not see any of them fed with meat on sticks.  The enclosures have these extensions with gates at both ends.  The feeder puts the meat at one end of the extension, closes the gate, and then opens the other gate to let the cat in to eat.

Those cages, especially the extension shown here, do not look like they would hold my beagle, much less a tiger. That there hasn’t been an escape is a miracle. 

[Stiggs]

13 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I do think the doc could have had at least one person on Carole's side as it were.  It was pretty unbalanced with Carole all by her lonesome as someone against these roadside zoos with the addition of Doc Antle.  A zoologist or vet not affiliated with Big Cat Rescue would have gone a long way to help show a more balanced picture or interview another reputable big cat rescue.  Carole is a deeply unlikeable woman and I think that is why so many people on social media are painting her as a villain.  

No "experts" really standing up for her raised alarm bells with me. Not that I think she was the villain of the story — Carole may or may not have murdered her husband, but she certainly is leagues better than animal-murdering psycho Joe Exotic. I'm so appalled by anyone anywhere having exotic animals as pets, that even seeing them in rescue cages just gets to me. But at the end of the day, she's helping cats that would otherwise perish at these roadside zoos. And she's very well marketed — she posts great animal videos on FB. She's pretty well known down here. And NOBODY from any other animal rescue organization defended her? No animal rights activists spoke up? Good god, even Joe Exotic had Shaq. Carole didn't have ANYONE other than her fellow sanctuary volunteers and fans?

So, either the filmmakers didn't do their due diligence and just wanted this to be a crazy shitfest, or they tried to get some "legit" Carole defenders and everyone said no. Like, maybe there were people who agree that she does good work, but nobody wants to get caught in her tornado of drama. 

I think I just read this is getting a season 2, so maybe Carole will gather her defenders. 🙂

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Stiggs

[Fostersmom]

Well, to be fair, the only defenders of the tiger breeders were other tiger breeders. There was a bunch of them, against one of Carole, the anti tiger breeder. Of course they weren't going to defend her, they make their life breeding cubs for cute pics and then basically killing off what they can't sell before they get too big to take pics of. I'd love to know how many of the animals at Carole's sanctuary were cubs from Joe or Doc originally. 

[Guest]

From the "you can't make this up" files, Jeff Lowe was once sued by Prince:

 

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

Those cages, especially the extension shown here, do not look like they would hold my beagle, much less a tiger. That there hasn’t been an escape is a miracle. 

I thought the same! I have huge dogs who've broken out of kennels a hell of a lot sturdier than those flimsy ass cages. That metal is barely a tick above chicken wire. 

 

[Growsonwalls]

One thing about the docu not having Carole advocates ... I could be wrong but maybe no big cat advocates want to deal with her? I have the feeling that she's very narcissistic and her circle of people doesn't extend much beyond her husband. My guess is many animal rights advocates didn't want to bother with her. Even PETA who were interviewed did not say much about her.

[kassa]

This was a cavalcade of lowlifes - except for the keeper who lost the arm, it was one jaw dropping personality after another. But I think the reason Carol has touched such a nerve is that we've all known a Carol (likely more than one.) 

Most of them are sociopaths - she's just the kind of sociopath law abiding citizens would encounter most frequently. Her energy is "off" but in casual acquaintance you'd write it off. If stuck working with or being related to her it would wear on you over time as you watched her collect and discard (or be discarded by) people.

So if she's getting a lot of heat, I think it's because she's carrying the baggage of being a pretty specific archetype of someone you need to avoid. 

Oh, and that comment about what you'd REALLY put on somebody's clothes to trigger an attack was pretty dang specific [insert imitation human laughter].