S06.E07: Under Pressure

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Jazz faces the most intense pressure in her life as she cannot handle the reality of preparing her valedictorian speech for her high school graduation; JoJo has a change of heart about top surgery and pursues bottom surgery; Jazz shops for a new Harvard look.

Mmm num ba de
Dum bum ba be
Doo buh dum ba beh beh

Pressure pushing down on Jazz
Pressing down on her, no one ask for
Under pressure that burns a building down
Splits her brain in two
Puts her under the sheets

Um ba ba be
Um ba ba be
De day da
Ee day da, that's okay

It's the terror of knowing what the world is about
Watching some good viewers screaming
"Let me out!"
Pray tomorrow gets me higher
Pressure on viewers, Jazz under sheets

Day day de mm hm
Da da da ba ba
Okay
Chipping around, kick her brains around the floor
These are the days it never rains but it pours
Ee do ba be
Ee da ba ba ba
Um bo bo
Be lap
Viewers asleep
Ee da de da de
Viewers asleep
Ee da de da de da de da

It's the terror of knowing what the show is about
Watching some good friends screaming
'Let me out'
Pray tomorrow gets me higher!

Yes, following this season's story of Jazz has an anxiety disorder, Jazz is under pressure.  Meanwhile viewers struggle to continue to care.  Will the pressure create diamonds or coal? Also, will JoJo now learn that she needs to wait until she is 18 for bottom surgery and will need to meet with therapists.   Does anyone else feel like this is more lather, rinse, repeat?

Original air date 2020.03.10

[gingerella]

What tune is the above to? 🤣

I just watched a clip of tonight's episode and all I can say is JESUS EFFING CHRIST!!! Jazz is sooooo stressed out about her valedictorian speech not being perfect and she's whining about how her 'perfectionism' is kicking in. I think a more honest and accurate description would be, she always fucks off and does the minimum and then regrets it when she realizes that it's a public event and she'll get called out for being unprepared, etc.

Annnyway, Jeanette opines to her How.Very.Hard. the last few months have been because she's had to:

1. Decide what college she goes to (oh the horror, to have two top schools to whinge over!)
2. She's had to put on the Lamest Drag Show ever (which Lips probably did nearly all the work on)
3. She's had to write her valedictorian speech (poor thing)

The obvious take-away in all this I am Drivel is that if she can't handle those three things over three months, then how the fuck is she going to be able to handle four years of Harvard classwork?!? She is so ill-equipped to handle the most basic life stuff, and Harvard students are expected to go over and beyond, which has never been Jazz's ethos, like, ever...at least not that we've been shown on this show.

ETA: I may have to put away all hard objects whilst watching tonight's episode, so that I don't throw something at my new TV and break it. Anyone else having this dilemma?

Edited March 10, 2020 by gingerella

[PrincessPurrsALot]

For your listening pleasure (to go with the song in the episode's first post):

 

[suev33 3]

Why can't we give love, give love, give love, give love, give love, give love, give love,  give loooo.......great tune!

[Sew Sumi]

Not the first song used as an episode title this season. Quite a few have been.

[SunnyBeBe]

I have some things to say but have to wait til show ends.

[iwasish]

Granny stroking the brothers neck is gross. 
Greg was smart to avoid it. 
Granddad is right on and everyone jumps on his ass. 
Even Phil Dunphy had enough of his oldest daughters bullshit and put her in her place when she got arrested a few weeks into freshman year. Someone needs to tell Jazz she and her vag aren’t the center of the universe. But wait, they’ve spent her whole life telling her just the opposite.

The shrink just happens to show up at the right moment.

 

[SunnyBeBe]

I don’t mean to negate anyone’s medical condition, but Jazz seems to be  creating scenes for attention. Also, it’s not that difficult to write a speech. Plenty of people who aren’t even that smart write them all the time.  I just don’t find her contentions authentic.  I suspect Greg refused to be part of the farce. 

[Linny]

When I see Jazz sobbing into the camera about the pressure she feels to be perfect, I just want to give her a hug and tell her things don't have to be so hard. Everyone deals with insecurities, moments of feeling self-conscious, and the worry that our best effort won't be enough. Those struggles are natural and expected, especially for young adults Jazz's age on the cusp of the real world. But those struggles don't have to be debilitating like they are for Jazz, which I don't know if she fully rehers yet.

It is encouraging that she does seem to understand that her emotional responses are disproportionate to the situation. I assume that's what she meant by telling Deb that crying over the speech wasn't just "a moment," it was one in a string of such moments. I give Jazz credit for being honest with her family about how overwhelmed she is, though I don't think she intended to alarm them as much she did. The time crunch of revising her speech, fixing her cap, and dressing for graduation pretty much left her no choice but to ask for help. My fear is that acknowledgement of the issue doesn't correlate to resolving the issue, and that Jazz will continue to work herself into a tangle of stress and tears and accept that as normal for her, when it really shouldn't be.

[iwasish]

21 minutes ago, Linny said:

When I see Jazz sobbing into the camera about the pressure she feels to be perfect, I just want to give her a hug and tell her things don't have to be so hard. Everyone deals with insecurities, moments of feeling self-conscious, and the worry that our best effort won't be enough. Those struggles are natural and expected, especially for young adults Jazz's age on the cusp of the real world. But those struggles don't have to be debilitating like they are for Jazz, which I don't know if she fully rehers yet.

It is encouraging that she does seem to understand that her emotional responses are disproportionate to the situation. I assume that's what she meant by telling Deb that crying over the speech wasn't just "a moment," it was one in a string of such moments. I give Jazz credit for being honest with her family about how overwhelmed she is, though I don't think she intended to alarm them as much she did. The time crunch of revising her speech, fixing her cap, and dressing for graduation pretty much left her no choice but to ask for help. My fear is that acknowledgement of the issue doesn't correlate to resolving the issue, and that Jazz will continue to work herself into a tangle of stress and tears and accept that as normal for her, when it really shouldn't be.

It’s the pattern of her life. She senses now that she might no longer be the center around which her entire family revolve around. Everyone else has always taken a backseat to Jazz, everyone drops everything when Jazz crooks her finger and comes running to reassure her. I feel for her brothers and sister, playing second fiddle to her. And now that her transition is pretty much complete, she’s still craving the spotlight. I sense dad, grandad and sister are  pretty much over it. 

[Emmeline]

I’ve always found it hard to imagine Jazz going away to college.  She spends her days, in her bedroom, in her bed.  It’s as if she is in an insulated bubble.  The only way she could handle going away from home would be if her mother rents an apartment nearby and they live together off campus.

Jazz should have been in therapy all along.  She is a mess.   Now she’s 18 and they can’t force her to go.

[iwasish]

7 minutes ago, Emmeline said:

I’ve always found it hard to imagine Jazz going away to college.  She spends her days, in her bedroom, in her bed.  It’s as if she is in an insulated bubble.  The only way she could handle going away from home would be if her mother rents an apartment nearby and they live together off campus.

Jazz should have been in therapy all along.  She is a mess.   Now she’s 18 and they can’t force her to go.

And that “therapist” that just happened to show up at the right moment, played right into her poor pitiful me persona. She needs someone to tell her to put on her big girl pants and deal. Cut out the stuff that stresses you the most. All that pressure about college was self imposed. Make a decision  and tell your folks. She wants to be in charge of her own life, not make decisions based on “not hurting their feelings”.... then do it. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SunnyBeBe]

I wish they would have told her that she would not be allowed to give an unapproved speech.  She can’t just make changes on her own accord to suit herself last minute. 
 

I think her family seemed stunned with her outburst, but not really upset. I sense they are concerned about Jazz, only not for the reasons you would think. I sense they are exasperated. 
 

I wonder if Jazz is able to properly prepare something on time. Some people really struggle with that and they just can’t do it. I really hope she can, because it’s a valuable trait. Being unreliable is a real handicap.  It seems that she’s never had to be responsible for anything. 

[Fostersmom]

Of course Cousin Debbie is JoJo's therapist. I mean, she did such a bang up job with Jazz, what could go wrong?

And this brings me back to my long thought question, was Debbie a therapist for other trans clients before or after Jazz? She said she's been a therapist for 43 years, but did she start out working with trans clients? Because, I've long wondered how much of Jazz wanting to be a girl might be from Jeanette's influence. We've heard about her asking when the vagina fairy was coming, but now grandma is saying she'd unsnap her onesie to make it into a dress. I'm sorry, but I'm just not believing this one happened organically. I will not be surprised if 5, 10, 20 years from now we find out Jeanette started telling Jazz from the moment she could that Jazz wanted to be a girl. If you tell a child something from the day they are born, they will believe it as their truth. I have no doubts that Jazz wanted the surgery, and is by all intents and purposes, trans, but I just don't trust Jeanette's role in this anymore. I'm sure the other kids were too young to even know the truth and Greg would have been working his ass of as a fairly young lawyer, not hanging out at home.

Grandpa needs to pull Greg aside and have a long conversation about what the hell is really going on and what they need to do to address the real issues. Sure as hell don't trust Jeanette to make sure Greg knows what's happening and to get Jazz some real help. I also hope Grandpa has the insight to say Harvard is the wrong choice at the time and most likely anytime soon. 

Oh, and Sander's crossing the creepy line with Jazz at this point. He's making almost as many excuses as Jeanette is and is way to quick to offer up his opinion on everything Jazz. 

 

[Bastet]

24 minutes ago, Fostersmom said:

Because, I've long wondered how much of Jazz wanting to be a girl might be from Jeanette's influence. We've heard about her asking when the vagina fairy was coming, but now grandma is saying she'd unsnap her onesie to make it into a dress. I'm sorry, but I'm just not believing this one happened organically. I will not be surprised if 5, 10, 20 years from now we find out Jeanette started telling Jazz from the moment she could that Jazz wanted to be a girl.

Jazz doesn't want to be a girl, she is a girl, just a transgender girl rather than a cisgender one.

Given how much virtually all parents (including these two) struggle when they are confronted with the possibility and then fact their child is transgender, and how many of them go to their graves using the wrong name/pronoun and declaring their child "confused", it's statistically highly unlikely this particular set of parents (I'm not sure - well, yeah, I am, but let's pretend the at-home parent's logically increased physical presence in the child's life, and not sexism, is why it's only Jeanette called out, when whatever the differences in their approaches to the various issues resulting from it, both Jeanette and Greg are firm in their acceptance of Jazz's gender identify) instigated this in some way. 

First, why would they?  Why would anyone choose to mess their child up that way?  (When we see parents imposing "no, you're a boy/girl" on their kids, it's telling a transgender child they are the biological sex, not telling a cisgender child they are the opposite sex.)  It's not like they had three boys and so pyschotically wanted a girl for this last one they'd turn a boy into a girl; they already had Ari.  And, while few people love symmetry more than I do, I certainly wouldn't tell a child they wanted to be a different gender just so I'd have two of each.

Second, if they did, why would it have "worked"?  The parents who deny their transgender children their true identity do great - sometimes fatal - harm, but against that horrific barrier those folks still generally manage to stake their claim - to themselves, to a small circle, or to the world - as time goes on.

[Kid]

Frankly, I am not buying the meltdowns anymore. 

I agee with iwasish - attention seeking behavior.

 

 

[lgprimes]

Did anybody else notice that in her speech Jazz referenced choosing to be homeschooled to escape the “pressure” of traditional high school?

This girl should never attempt the Ivy League.

[iwasish]

41 minutes ago, Kid said:

Frankly, I am not buying the meltdowns anymore. 

I agee with iwasish - attention seeking behavior.

 

 

Her speech was practically written by the therapist. The “three word thing” came directly from her. 
The only saving grace was that she didn’t mention her vagina in the speech. 

[FurBabyMama]

I get that the only reason jazz is on tv is because she’s trans. But I’m getting so tired of how much it’s shoved in our face... even her graduation cap had to represent it. I’m not saying it’s bad or wrong, but one of the things in her freak out was that she didn’t decorate her cap... what would have been so terrible if it wasn’t decorated? I didn’t decorate my cap from any of my graduations and most people didn’t. But of course it was decorated with the lgbtq and trans flags. 
 

I work with a trans woman, she transitioned a few months back. When she came back to work after her transition, there was a memo that came out that said she wants to go by this name and feminine pronouns, and that was it... she doesn’t call attention to her being trans every second she gets. She just goes about her life. Comes to work, does her job, goes home, meets up with friends, etc. I dunno the point of what I’m trying to say, just if she keeps claiming she wants to be thought of as a normal girl, then maybe she should stop talking about her vagina constantly. 
 

And I feel like jojo is just proving grandmas point that she’s too young to be making life changing decisions... last week it was all I need breast augmentation. This week, the real issue is her bottom surgery. It just seems like she’s so swayed by the wind, that she doesn’t even know what she really wants yet. I’m not denying that she’s trans and I’m not saying it’s a phase for her, but that as a teenager to make a huge decision is not the right time. And you would think after seeing all the complications jazz had from being suppressed for so long, she might consider long and hard before going for it all gung ho (or did she start suppression later in life?)

[Kid]

1 hour ago, FurBabyMama said:

. And you would think after seeing all the complications jazz had from being suppressed for so long, she might consider long and hard before going for it all gung ho (or did she start suppression later in life?)

Not to mention that Jazz seems just as miserable now as prior to the surgery.  Although I do not buy the meltdowns, I do think she is depressed (binge eating) and insecure and needing constant validation (attention seeking).

[cinsbythesea]

I am really hoping that the family is not so Jazz-centric once the cameras are off.  So unfair to the other three kids if so.

[princelina]

3 hours ago, FurBabyMama said:

And I feel like jojo is just proving grandmas point that she’s too young to be making life changing decisions... last week it was all I need breast augmentation. This week, the real issue is her bottom surgery. It just seems like she’s so swayed by the wind, that she doesn’t even know what she really wants yet. I’m not denying that she’s trans and I’m not saying it’s a phase for her, but that as a teenager to make a huge decision is not the right time. And you would think after seeing all the complications jazz had from being suppressed for so long, she might consider long and hard before going for it all gung ho (or did she start suppression later in life?)

Exactly, and Cousin Debbie is a quack for stating that no one ever wonders "what have I done" - google it, Debbie.  Grandma treats Jojo and talks about her like she's a girl, but she is concerned for her mental and physical health and thinks of other things to be considered besides "she might commit suicide!"  She seems willing to hear other people out but would like her concerns to be acknowledged and considered too.  I appreciate her attitude.

[gingerella]

1 hour ago, princelina said:

She seems willing to hear other people out but would like her concerns to be acknowledged and considered too.  I appreciate her attitude.

To be honest, even though I think Jojo has her own issues and is at least seeing someone (even though it's Cousin Debbie, who seems to be a very validating sort of therapist from what we've seen, never calling out or challenging anyone), I do believe that while Grandma may have concerns, at the end of the day, her concerns are irrelevant because it's not her body and it's not her life, period end of story. Grandma is, I believe, struggling with Jojo's gender identity and I do believe that she hopes that by waiting, Jojo will miraculously decide it was all 'just an adolescent phase' and that she's really male. That's what I read between the lines with Grandma. She needs separate therapy for her own issues, IMO.

15 hours ago, Fostersmom said:

I've long wondered how much of Jazz wanting to be a girl might be from Jeanette's influence. We've heard about her asking when the vagina fairy was coming, but now grandma is saying she'd unsnap her onesie to make it into a dress. I'm sorry, but I'm just not believing this one happened organically. I will not be surprised if 5, 10, 20 years from now we find out Jeanette started telling Jazz from the moment she could that Jazz wanted to be a girl.

There is no way any parent would do this and wish so much angst on their child. We may bag on Jazz and Jeanette for good reason here, but nobody here that's been following this show since the beginning would think this has been drummed up by Jeanette.

As for Jazz, Jesus H. Christ, I don't even know what I can say about last night's episode. First, I feel somewhat bad saying this aloud but I felt like the massive melt down in the living room was waaaaay overblown in proportion to what Jazz ended up saying. I mean I thought with all the histrionics she was about to tell them she was either going to Pomona OR she was taking a year off from college to re group. But then to hear all that mishigas was over her cap not being decorated and her speech needing re-writing? Are.You.Fucking.Kidding.Me.?!?!?!?!? I was gobsmacked. And that's when she lost me and I started thinking this is what she does - she procrastinates until the last minute on things, then panics when she envisions being found out, then she has a melt down and claims it's all because she battles depression and anxiety. Which to be honest, she has never - at least not that viewers have seen - even been diagnosed as having depression or anxiety.

There's a saying in the therapy world that depression is worrying about the past, and anxiety is worrying about the future and things that have not yet happened. I do believe she has some sort of anxiety but I also feel like it's self induced because she's essentially lazy and just doesn't do what she needs to do much of the time. But depressed? I'm not so sure because that would mean she was dwelling on the past and it would seem she'd be thrilled to not look back because looking back would mean looking at who she was before her surgery, her dysphoria, etc. So to me it doesn't make sense. Then again, nothing about her makes sense when she clearly should have been in therapy for years and she's still not there. Grandpa Jack is the only sane person in that family and I feel for him because he knows whats what. It must be maddening for him to see clearly what needs to happen and say so, and be dismissed by his dimwitted daughter. Jeanette has done SUCH a disservice to this kid, it's just sad.

I cannot imagine any college admissions team seeing this show and wanting this kid on campus with all her many issues. It's sad to say, but there it is. And Jazz's comments about 'I want this to be perfect for all the other students there' just rings hollow to me. The part that rang true was when she said 'I want it to be perfect'. It's about her, it's always about her. Others appear to be merely pawns in her celebrity. I honestly think the best thing for this kid is to stop doing this show and stop doing appearances and just be a normal human being. As someone upthread said, if you want to be viewed as just another normal young woman, then go live your live away from cameras and public appearances and just be. That and serious therapy are what Jazz and her mother need right now, not more TV appearances, parades and interviews.

And don't get me started on next weeks previews with Jazz seeing a medium for her 'issues'...I pity my TV...I'm going to have to tie my hands down next week...

Edited March 11, 2020 by gingerella

[cinsbythesea]

I will be amazed if Jazz actually goes to Harvard - she is so not ready.   And will be even more amazed if she does go and lasts more than a term.  The only way I see her succeeding at Harvard, at least in the beginning, is if she has Jeanette there bolstering her up every day the way she has been for most of Jazz' life.  She'd have been so much better off at Pomona where the expectations are high - but not nearly as high as what she will be facing at Harvard.  Certainly even Jeanette has to realize in her heart Jazz is not ready to live away from home, support network, etc?

[SunnyBeBe]

It's difficult for me to understand why someone would want their family to be told how horrible it has been for them, under those circumstances.   Especially, on the eve of your graduation. (Yes, she had challenges with her surgeries, but, they are aware of that.)  IMO, most people don't want others to pity them. I have no desire for anyone to feel sorry for me and will take measures to ensure that doesn't happen.  So, making a huge deal of it right before the biggest event in your life so far, except for the reassignment surgery, seemed odd, to me.  And, it's the kind of thing that she can turn on and off.  I didn't know anxiety and depression worked that way. 

If she does suffer with some sort of condition and this is not attention seeking, I do hope that she gets help for it. Some people get therapy and take medication.  I hope she doesn't refuse and say she doesn't need it, because, even if she doesn't, her family does.  I would think that a therapist that is NOT connected to the family at all would be best, so, that Jeannette cannot orchestrate. 

I recall back when Jazz didn't want to attend regular school.  I sensed then that it was about having to do assignments, complete projects, etc.  on a time schedule.  I don't think she likes that kind of thing and it may be something that she is not able to adapt to.  That's sad, because, it really is a disability for school, work and the real world.  She may suffer from procrastination syndrome and that can be debilitating.  It's a real thing.   I do wish her the best.  I am curious as to how she will navigate the next few years. 

[SleepyAndClumsy]

Jazz looked so much better in the clothes that the stylist picked out for her at the boutique!    I really hoped that she would realize that and start wearing more age-appropriate clothes, but it seems like she has gone back to her “Jeanette Jr.” style. 

[bichonblitz]

4 hours ago, Kid said:

Not to mention that Jazz seems just as miserable now as prior to the surgery.  Although I do not buy the meltdowns, I do think she is depressed (binge eating) and insecure and needing constant validation (attention seeking).

I also think she's depressed because she though once she transitioned and was finished with the surgeries life would be a perfect fairy tale. Welcome to the real world, kid. Now go to college or get a full time job and stop obsessing over yourself. 

I do not believe Jazz is a perfectionist. A perfectionist would not wait until 2 hrs. before graduation to write a speech. A perfectionist would not wait until the last minute without having her cap ready. Why wasn't mama Jeanette asking her all along weeks prior if she was preparing for this big day? 

[gingerella]

29 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I do not believe Jazz is a perfectionist. A perfectionist would not wait until 2 hrs. before graduation to write a speech. A perfectionist would not wait until the last minute without having her cap ready.

Exactly

[SunnyBeBe]

With all the advantages that Jazz has, I think I would be hesitant to talk about how difficult my life is.  Debating over which university you’ll attend, picking out outfits, planning charity benefits, writing songs and speeches, ........some might call that rich people problems. 
 

I’ve noticed that Jazz struggles when told no.  I wonder how she would survive in the real world where if you don’t get things in on time, you pay the price. If you don’t agree, too bad. You get no exception.  I wonder if that kind of thing might be freeing to her. It might help build structure in her life.

[doglover3489]

IMO, Jazz is an emotional cripple, thanks to her mother and her spineless father who has never put his foot down and told his wife to stop coddling Jazz. There are too many young people like Jazz these days. Entitled, spoiled brats. Being transgender has nothing to do with Jazz being the weak person she is. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by doglover3489
grammar

[iwasish]

4 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

I also think she's depressed because she though once she transitioned and was finished with the surgeries life would be a perfect fairy tale. Welcome to the real world, kid. Now go to college or get a full time job and stop obsessing over yourself. 

I do not believe Jazz is a perfectionist. A perfectionist would not wait until 2 hrs. before graduation to write a speech. A perfectionist would not wait until the last minute without having her cap ready. Why wasn't mama Jeanette asking her all along weeks prior if she was preparing for this big day? 

If that cap is such a big fucking deal, a reflection of the graduate as a person and their future... why is she having her sister decorate it? That’s the one thing she should have done herself.,

[JocelynCavanaugh]

Jazz needs so much professional help, and needs to extricate herself from her suffocating mother. While I think she’s far too anxious and immature to handle college, I do suspect she would’ve had at least a fighting chance at Pomona. Her mother’s ego ruined that. Jeanette wanted to be able to proclaim that her kid went to Harvard. That’s all. She needs to back the hell away and work on herself, starting with a makeover. 

[princelina]

12 minutes ago, gingerella said:

To be honest, even though I think Jojo has her own issues and is at least seeing someone (even though it's Cousin Debbie, who seems to be a very validating sort of therapist from what we've seen, never calling out or challenging anyone), I do believe that while Grandma may have concerns, at the end of the day, her concerns are irrelevant because it's not her body and it's not her life, period end of story. Grandma is, I believe, struggling with Jojo's gender identity and I do believe that she hopes that by waiting, Jojo will miraculously decide it was all 'just an adolescent phase' and that she's really male. That's what I read between the lines with Grandma. She needs separate therapy for her own issues, IMO.

At the end of the day, her concerns will be irrelevant when Jojo is no longer a minor child.  Until then, Grandma seems to be in a caretaker role, even if she is not the parent, and her concerns are relevant.  She does seem to be struggling with Jojo's gender identity, and I'm sure she'd be thrilled if it were "just a phase", but she is also joining in these discussions, meeting with the therapist and with her family, and acknowledging Jojo's female identity.  She does seem concerned that Jojo is immature and doesn't want her to do irreparable harm to her body without actual serious therapy and understanding.  (Such as getting the boob job she "had to have or possibly kill herself" two weeks ago, which now no longer is vitally important.)  That's what I read between the lines with Grandma, and I say good for her.

[stacyasp]

On 3/10/2020 at 8:21 PM, Fostersmom said:

Of course Cousin Debbie is JoJo's therapist. I mean, she did such a bang up job with Jazz, what could go wrong?

And this brings me back to my long thought question, was Debbie a therapist for other trans clients before or after Jazz? She said she's been a therapist for 43 years, but did she start out working with trans clients? Because, I've long wondered how much of Jazz wanting to be a girl might be from Jeanette's influence. We've heard about her asking when the vagina fairy was coming, but now grandma is saying she'd unsnap her onesie to make it into a dress. I'm sorry, but I'm just not believing this one happened organically. I will not be surprised if 5, 10, 20 years from now we find out Jeanette started telling Jazz from the moment she could that Jazz wanted to be a girl. If you tell a child something from the day they are born, they will believe it as their truth. I have no doubts that Jazz wanted the surgery, and is by all intents and purposes, trans, but I just don't trust Jeanette's role in this anymore. I'm sure the other kids were too young to even know the truth and Greg would have been working his ass of as a fairly young lawyer, not hanging out at home.

Grandpa needs to pull Greg aside and have a long conversation about what the hell is really going on and what they need to do to address the real issues. Sure as hell don't trust Jeanette to make sure Greg knows what's happening and to get Jazz some real help. I also hope Grandpa has the insight to say Harvard is the wrong choice at the time and most likely anytime soon. 

Oh, and Sander's crossing the creepy line with Jazz at this point. He's making almost as many excuses as Jeanette is and is way to quick to offer up his opinion on everything Jazz. 

 

I truly believe Jeanette = munchaussen by proxy 

[jnymph]

I sincerely like Jazz, I'd like to see this young vibrant soul go far in life.    But her parents are doing her ZERO favors, they NEED TO STEP ASIDE and stop babying and helicoptering.   

 Jazz needs to get out on her own. 

Then she needs to Stumble !  Falter !  Make mistakes, even BIG ones !   Then she needs to pick herself back up again. ON HER OWN.  She will learn immensely. 

And I have to mention this every time I'm on this forum.  I love Noelle.  

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Jazzers,

An old discussion seems to be popping up again; that is, did Jeanette convince a "male" Jazz that she is a girl.  This is absolutely not okay. Jazz is a girl/woman. Jazz was a she, is a she and will be a she unless SHE ever says otherwise.  Please talk about this episode and do not rehash the validity of Jazz's or any other transgender person's gender.  

[Ucross]

I am guessing that Jeanette will accompany Jazz to college and get an apartment. Either Jazz will live with her or in a dorm, but mom would be nearby. And perhaps dad will breathe a sigh of relief and enjoy the serenity...

There was a segment in this episode where the parents were strolling in Manhattan during the trip for the latest surgery. Because they were talking about what is was like to be separated at the beginning of their marriage when hubby went to FL and Jeanette stayed in NY, that would be a prelude for a similar thing happening during Jazz's first year in college.

I do not generally hear women ever mention their vaginas, and aside from the initial "how do you tampon" (using a mirror) episode, I don't get the impression most have much of an idea what theirs looks like. It's an orifice through which blood, babies, penises and other objects (for the adventurous) pass for most owners of one. I can understand Jazz's curiosity about her various post-surgical appearances, but I sure wish she'd keep it to herself. Most people do! Emily Post would not approve of the "pretty pussy" jabber.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Ucross

[jacksgirl]

So much wisdom in this forum. Jazz knows mommy will always pick her up. I get it, she is 18. But they need to let her fall and figure out how to get back up herself. Also, I get that she needs to be her true self but I'm sure one of the conditions of her being valedictorian was getting her speech approved and then not changing it. But rules don't apply to the amazing Jazz if they interfere with her true self. Gaaahh! Not downplaying her class ranking, being valedictorian is something to be very proud of. Wonder how many seniors were in her graduating class however. I used to root for Jazz, I really did now she's just showing how selfish she is.

[retired watcher]

I think Pamona would have been a wonderful choice for her. And it would have gotten her away from Mom. Just because you get in to Harvard doesn't mean it is the best place for you. Her mother was so wrong to influence her. Her grandparents had her back. How did her wonderful grandparents raise Jeanette?

[ReadMeLattice]

I do have to say, I think I see her anxiety attacks very differently from most, but maybe because I was raised by an even more domineering mother. (NOTHING to do with her trans identity, just her mom's actual treatment of her as her child and especially as the baby of the family.)

I truly got this anxious over things this seemingly small at Jazz's age. Someone had made every decision for me, critiqued every outfit, every meal, every word I said, every friend I had. It probably seemed like I was spoiled, but inside I was lost and suffocating and in despair. I had no idea who I was without the shadow of my mom hanging over me, telling me what I would do next. And when I realized I was suddenly going to have to do it on my own...well, I lost it. I realized how helpless I'd been kept, seemingly on purpose. I was angry, too, not just scared; I suddenly knew how truly helpless I was compared to my more independent peers, which was the vibe I got from Jazz in her uncontrollable sobs. Combine that with multiple physically traumatizing, painful, complicated surgeries and the world's attention on social media and TV for years and years? Well, I would have fallen apart a lot more.  

I eventually figured it all out. But I felt her pain. Sure, she is privileged and spoiled, and she doesn't have a great work ethic. She has plenty of flaws. But I do think her distress is very, very real. 

Also, re: the "perfectionism"- some people put things off subconsciously on purpose because of the anxiety and dread they feel around them. That can be read as laziness, and it could be a mixture, but I get some sense of that from Jazz as well. That she is so afraid of something being 'wrong' in her speech, or not great about her performance- remember, this is a girl who hasn't really gotten to experience a casual school project or something she just did as any other teen that didn't get plastered all over television, and has had to be a 'role model' and spokesperson her entire life- that she just feels paralyzed and puts it off until the last minute, then panics. 

[princelina]

On 3/13/2020 at 2:37 PM, Ucross said:

I am guessing that Jeanette will accompany Jazz to college and get an apartment. Either Jazz will live with her or in a dorm, but mom would be nearby. And perhaps dad will breathe a sigh of relief and enjoy the serenity...

And IMO Jeanette would rather be in Boston than California - the real reason behind the Harvard push!

[JocelynCavanaugh]

1 hour ago, princelina said:

And IMO Jeanette would rather be in Boston than California - the real reason behind the Harvard push!

Yet another area in which Jeanette's taste makes no sense to me whatsoever. 

[Visaman666]

On 3/13/2020 at 11:37 AM, Ucross said:

 

I do not generally hear women ever mention their vaginas, and aside from the initial "how do you tampon" (using a mirror) episode, I don't get the impression most have much of an idea what theirs looks like. It's an orifice through which blood, babies, penises and other objects (for the adventurous) pass for most owners of one. I can understand Jazz's curiosity about her various post-surgical appearances, but I sure wish she'd keep it to herself. Most people do! Emily Post would not approve of the "pretty pussy" jabber.

Betty Dodson made a whole career about it, almost turned it into a religion.

[Honey]

Her parents should have let her get her own apartment last season.  It may have been a "waste" of her money, as Greg put it at the time, but it would have given her a taste of independence (paying her own bills, keeping her own schedule, doing her own shopping, etc.), while still being close to the safety of home.  They really kind of blew it.  I think they were actually worried that she might have sex...oh the horrors.

[Visaman666]

Apperently there was very little reaction to the speech by her fellow students, in fact, they showed very little of the ceremony. I wonder if this was the first and last time that her cohort actually met in person? The alternative Prom had more air time, and again with strangers. 

[kicotan]

I always used to get pissed off when people would give pregnant women/menopausal women/menstruating women a “pass” on being emotional/irrational because hormones...there are women out there with hormonal imbalances not necessarily related to a pregnancy/a period/menopause.  I’m one of them.  For example, I started at 11 and my “morning sickness” problem, by the time I was a freshman in high school, resulted in my mom taking me to the doctor insisting I had anorexia.

No, Mom, it’s not anorexia.  It is one of the results of you being injected with synthetic hormones every two weeks when you were pregnant with me which resulted in my being exposed to the estrogenic equivalent of roughly 30,000 of today’s birth control pills in utero.

I think if Jazz went to a competent therapist, her hormonal situation since having her bottom surgery MIGHT be a worthwhile topic of discussion with regards to her emotional situation.

I could be wrong, though.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

To an extent Jazz is going through a second puberty. Since her first puberty was altered (she developed breasts and her body changed so some aspects of puberty took place), she is now getting the full hormone load with nothing else impacting it.  That's a major adjustment physically and emotionally.  

At the same time, I agree with the folks saying she does need an opportunity to break out some on her own.  Having her own small apartment and a job would be a good start during her gap year.  It would help her settle in to her new body, build more relationships outside of her family and small group of friends and let her mature through the same ways most people do.  That way next year she will be better prepared to go away to school. 

[Nancy S]

On 3/10/2020 at 5:07 PM, gingerella said:

What tune is the above to? 🤣

I just watched a clip of tonight's episode and all I can say is JESUS EFFING CHRIST!!! Jazz is sooooo stressed out about her valedictorian speech not being perfect and she's whining about how her 'perfectionism' is kicking in. I think a more honest and accurate description would be, she always fucks off and does the minimum and then regrets it when she realizes that it's a public event and she'll get called out for being unprepared, etc.

Annnyway, Jeanette opines to her How.Very.Hard. the last few months have been because she's had to:

1. Decide what college she goes to (oh the horror, to have two top schools to whinge over!)
2. She's had to put on the Lamest Drag Show ever (which Lips probably did nearly all the work on)
3. She's had to write her valedictorian speech (poor thing)

The obvious take-away in all this I am Drivel is that if she can't handle those three things over three months, then how the fuck is she going to be able to handle four years of Harvard classwork?!? She is so ill-equipped to handle the most basic life stuff, and Harvard students are expected to go over and beyond, which has never been Jazz's ethos, like, ever...at least not that we've been shown on this show.

ETA: I may have to put away all hard objects whilst watching tonight's episode, so that I don't throw something at my new TV and break it. Anyone else having this dilemma?

Regarding putting away all hard objects: you can always just now watch if it riles you up.