S01.E07: Nepenthe

[starri]

This tweet basically says everything I would have.  Not so much the no connection to TNG (although I'm more connected to DS9), but just about everything else.

 

[DrScottie]

15 hours ago, marinw said:

Dear Elnor and Seven: Please team up and go on a revenge killing quest. I won't judge or lecture about how vengeance is never the answer.

As to Oh, I see that non-consensual mind melds are still a thing. CMIIW, but is "Commodore" the rank between Captain and Admiral? Why did Kirk (and maybe Picard) get to skip that rank?

Ah, Commodore Oh-No. It is indeed the rank between Captain and Admiral. Not just Kirk and Picard, but likely Janeway and Archer too. I suppose it's because they are StarFleet heroes. You don't have to be a Commodore before becoming an Admiral either. In the TNG episode "Coming of Age," Admiral Quinn wanted to directly promote Captain Picard to Admiral.  There were more Commodores in the original series, Matt Decker (USS Constellation), Jose Mendez (Starbase 11), and Bob Wesley (USS Lexington) to name a few of them.  

[summitsw]

20 hours ago, TheGourmez said:

Seriously. I couldn't stop feeling the impending doom for the Troi Riker household all episode. 

Same. Right at the end when Picard beamed out I was actually holding my breath cause I thought the Romulans were going to appear. 
 

I haven’t been overly impressed by this show even though I loved TNG. Up to this point Seven’s episode was the highlight, but I adored every scene on Nepenthe. I’d pinned a lot of hopes on this reunion and it lived up to all of them. Many of the Picard/Riker/Troi scenes had me choking up and Kestra was a delight. I’m hoping Will’s comment about needing an extraordinary reason to come out of retirement is a hint we’ll see him (and Troi) again. 
 

I am also very sad about poor Hugh. I really wanted and Hugh/Seven scene. 

Edited March 7, 2020 by summitsw

[Artsda]

Loved seeing Riker&Troi, even called her Imzadi!

[Llywela]

8 hours ago, Kostgard said:

Oh, I know that, I just think that she should have been frayed (if not completely breaking down) much sooner. We learned that she was asked to do "something terrible" and I assume that meant killing Maddox. She set out on this mission knowing she was going to kill someone she is/was close to. I just feel like we should have seen her nervous about this all along (she could have chalked it up to not being used to being in space or something like that, since it also seemed that going "off world" was not something she had a lot of experience with, to throw the other characters off the scent). It makes sense that killing Maddox would put her over the edge, I just feel like we should have seen her teetering on that edge all along, but we didn't because they didn't want to give the twist away to the audience.

Hmm. I see your point. She was very twitchy and restless from the start, though, which we all chalked up to adorkable agitation about being in space for the first time. As I recall, she beamed up to La Sirena on the same day that Oh came to her and performed the mind meld (I wonder if she took the time to call in to Daystrom to explain she was going off on an open-ended trip). Maybe in the early days, with the mind meld still fresh in her memory, she felt more confident in her ability to do what she'd been asked to do and it felt a long way off, so she was able to compartmentalise a little - and that was really only for the duration of episode four with the side trip to Vashti, when she was annoying Rios with her stir craziness, which we can now look back and re-assess as a manifestation of her nerves. By the time episode five rolled around and La Sirena arrived at Freecloud to collect Maddox, she was a nervous wreck throughout, so much so that the EMH activated twice - and by the time she murdered Maddox at the end of that episode, we understood why she was in such a state. So there has been a clear progression of her mental deterioration since the mind meld in episode three.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Llywela

[MissLucas]

Hmm, I did not like this one as much as I had anticipated despite being a huge Riker/Troi fan. I found some of Marina Sirtis's acting choices rather odd - I did not blame Soji one bit for not trusting her in the tomato scene. She came across as rather Romulan so to speak and for a moment I really wondered if the Tal Shiar had gotten to her and threatened Kestra already.

And why the hell did Picard name-drop Data to Kestra before even talking to Soji?!? Just so the whole android truth bomb was placed on Kestra's shoulders? I get what they were going for since it paved a way for bonding Soji with Kestra (over mucus, he!) but that was some really heavy-handed writing. Not to mention that Hugh somehow managed to program the Stargate portal that it would lead Picard and Soji right into the woods surrounding chalet Troi-Riker so that there was absolutely no time for the 'talk' before they were picked up by Kestra.

Riker putting two and tow together after seeing the head-tilt (and hearing his wife mention that she could not read Soji) was a great scene. And I loved how he predicted 14 years ago that Picard would end up 'ass-deep' in Romulans LOL! I almost wished that Elnor had popped up right at that moment.

I also expected to meet Captain Rupert Crandall and his broken ship the 'Inside Straight'. I guess we will later on since all that name-dropping can't have been simple world-building. Speaking of world-building: the whole thing with the invented languages was really neat even though it was part of yet another tragedy. And of course sooner or later the disease that killed Thad will make a reappearance. Watch out Kestra!

Meanwhile back on the cube: I wish we had had some more time seeing Hugh and Elnor bond before the almost inevitable demise of the latter (also: stop killing all the Borg we ever liked show!). Anyone here fluent in Romulan? I would like to know what Rizzo told Elnor beyond name-dropping Zat Vash. I'm a bit confused why Elnor had the Fenris-to-the-rescue chip? I thought Seven had given that to Picard? Did he hand it to Elnor later on? I guess Seven counts as xB so that Queencell will be activated and that 'immense hidden power' will surely not kick off a cascade of doom.

Meanwhile back on La Sirena: Probably my favorite scenes. Raffi and Rios realizing that Agnes was in full meltdown and their silent agreement on how to handle her was great teamwork. I also loved Raffi's flowered coat/cardigan thingy and how Michelle Hurd sold that 'You bet it's cake' line, or 'No such thing (as too much chocolate) on planet Raffi' LOL. Alison Pill was great in her scenes, the growing despair and derailing of someone who tried to hold it together after having done something terrible and who just wants out. I wonder if she had really planned to commit suicide or had somehow figured out that her being in a coma would deactivate the tracker in her system. I'm also pretty sure Rios realized that she had been the one the Romulans used for tracking the ship. 

One question about Commodore Oh of the terrific shades: I thought she was Romulan and not Vulcan (the Vulcan artifacts on her desk just being part of her cover)? Do Romulans also practice mind-melding or is she Vulcan in league with the Zat Vash? Raffi would have a field day with that one.

Edited March 7, 2020 by MissLucas

[Delphi]

I really wish Elnor had straight up beheaded that woman.   I want her dead so bad.   

Poor Hugh,  I was really hoping for him and Elnor to get a happy ending.  Because there was definitely a lot of hoyay subtext between them. 

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Delphi said:

Because there was definitely a lot of hoyay subtext between them. 

Did the nuns have an e-learning module on sexuality? Or is their training 100% combat and everything Elnor knows about sex is from The Three Musketeers?

Edited March 7, 2020 by paigow

[paigow]

11 hours ago, lora said:

Riker seemed a little jealous of Picard's new crew.

Did Riker know something about Rios that Picard did not? Even Riker keeps analog photos.. somewhere there is a Google / Amazon cloud executive saying WTF!!! We offer unlimited storage!!!!!

[Joimiaroxeu]

Data did not have mucus. Good to know. 😔

Heh, Troi basically told Picard she's not trying to lose her last child so he and Data's kid better get to stepping soon.

Yeah, Raffi can give you cake, Agnes. Cake infused with delicious mood-altering drugs!

Having a hard time feeling sorry for Soji. Sooner or later probably every woman gets deceived by a partner they thought they could trust. She's still young and relatively inexperienced I guess. 🙄

Whoa, Elnor almost met his match in Narissa. And now he's trapped. Should've left with Picard. (Also, I see some posters were shipping Hugh & Elnor but I was seeing a little vibe between Elnor & Narissa. Hey, it could work if they agree to stop trying to kill each other!)

Quote

And of course Troi was outside gardening in 4" heels.

How tiny is she? She will still shorter than Picard and Riker was towering over both of them.

Quote

Anges can stay or die in the coma.

Same.

[Llywela]

37 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Having a hard time feeling sorry for Soji. Sooner or later probably every woman gets deceived by a partner they thought they could trust. She's still young and relatively inexperienced I guess. 🙄

Soji wasn't just betrayed by a partner she thought she could trust - it's not like she's a high school kid thinking the world is ending because her boyfriend dumped her. The partner she trusted tried to murder her, plus she found out in the cruelest possible way not only that her entire life, her family, and all her memories are a lie, but that her very being is a lie - that she isn't a living being at all, in fact. Her entire worldview has been completely shattered, to the point where she no longer knows what's real and what isn't. That's reason enough for me to feel sorry for her.

[ahisma]

They were strongly suggesting that happily ever after for Soji would be accepting Picard as a surrogate father and making a life with him as her family. But considering the two Romulans waiting in France versus the strong connection she forged with Kestra already, my HEA for her would actually be ending up back on Nepenthe.

[Ottis]

OK, let’s remove the emotional reunion of characters we love, which could have been done on a holiday special, and talk about the actual plot and mythology. 

While I was pleased to have been proven right that Oh showed Agnes a terrible future, so Agnes killed her friend to prevent it, that brief mindmeld glance shouldn’t have been enough to make Agnes do that. Way too light on cause/effect there, Show.

And Rios is a dimwit for assuming only Raffi could be the source of the tracking device. And Agnes, unless you are being mentally held back, it’s pretty clear you should tell Rios and Raffi what you know, given the stealth following by a Romulan. 

I thought Kester was way too precocious and eager to pal up with Soji.

And I still don’t know what this show is about. Helping refugees, those who have little? Because chasing Soji’s source isn’t very interesting. It’s like there is the thinnest main plot that is really just a device for the show to visit old characters. 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Ottis

[tennisgurl]

No, Hugh! I do not want this, take it back! Find a re-set button and smash it right now! This is not cool show, I demand an explanation for why you did this! Hugh already went through so much to regain his autonomy, and now he ends up getting a knife to the throat, after all of that! And he and Elnor were such a great, if tragically short lived, team up, I wanted to see more of it! I need Elnor and Seven to raise all kinds of hell after this. I am generally fine with Trek going a bit darker and having actual consequences, but this just seems...cruel. 

I also missed Elnor being with everyone else, who else will state the obvious that no one else will admit out loud?! I hope that he gets out of this alright, he looked so hurt losing Hugh, and now he all alone on a Borg Cube filled with enemies. 

Anyway, other than my anger/sadness at losing Hugh so soon, I did like this episode, and I was thrilled to see Troi and Riker and their cute happy home and their adorable daughter! I was just filled with such happy feels seeing their warm reunion with Picard, and the immediate chemistry between them again, it really did seem like old friends seeing each other again...which it was! You could really see the instant connection between the actors, and how happy they were to be together again playing these parts. Yeah it was a big nostalgia rush, but I think the show did do a good job at justifying them stopping by, with Riker giving Picard some good Riker advice, and Troi helped Soji get closer to understanding herself, and gave Picard a clue about how to help her.  I always really liked the Riker and Picard friendship and how it grew, so it was great to see it here. I wonder if Riker knows Picard named his dog Number 1? He would probably think thats hilarious. They are all based around the specifics of those characters and those dynamics, and I think it all worked really well. I think the show in general has done a good job with weaving old characters and stories into the plot in a way that contributes to it, and isnt just a "Hey remember this person!" fanservice. He even asked them for options during dinner, like the old days!

Kestra is such a cute kid, its really hard sometimes for writers to write kid characters, and have them be likable and not overly precocious, but I think they did a good job with her. She definitely seems like the child of an older retired Riker and Troi, who has been hanging in the forest for a long time. Its really sad that they lost their first child though, that one hurts. 

So Agnes really did get scared into helping the Romulans to destroy the Synths, but now she is having some serious doubts, and feels increasingly miserable and guilty over Maddox. It makes sense, she isnt really a spy or anything, this is WAY out of her wheelhouse, and while she could keep it together early on, when the whole thing was still sort of hypothetical, now that her being the Mole is actually endangering the people she has bonded with, and she is having to get her hands dirty, its becoming way too much for her to deal with. I do wonder if Rios actually suspected Agnes of being the spy and was trying to smoke her out when he said how he suspected Raffi of having a tracker on her, or if he really did suspect her. He really seems to trust Raffi. I really liked the little nonverbal chat between Rios and Raffi about who would help Agnes out (even if they didnt know HOW messed up she was and why) and Raffi trying to be there for her. It is really interesting that, as much as Rios tries with the "uncaring cocky I Work Alone pilot" thing, he really is quite caring and empathetic, and really in tune to what people need. If he wasnt so busy with everything else, he probably would have figured out what she was feeling was guilt already.  

Edited March 7, 2020 by tennisgurl

[paigow]

Christopher Lloyd should be Capt. Crandall ... A cross between Doc Brown and Krug

[Llywela]

45 minutes ago, Ottis said:

And Rios is a dimwit for assuming only Raffi could be the source of the tracking device. And Agnes, unless you are being mentally held back, it’s pretty clear you should tell Rios and Raffi what you know, given the stealth following by a Romulan.

I think there are actually a bunch of fairly logical reasons why Raffi might fall under suspicion. Rios didn't say he thought she had deliberately betrayed them, he was worried the Romulans may have planted a tracker on her at Freecloud without her knowledge. Because Freecloud is where everything started to go wrong, and out of all the people who left the ship at Freecloud, Raffi is the only one whose movements aren't accounted for - all the others were together in a group. Also, Raffi was probably blind drunk when she returned to the ship, so it might be easy enough to imagine something being slipped onto her while she was wasted. Agnes never left the ship at Freecloud, and there is no reason (yet) to suspect that she was compromised before they ever left Earth - up until her collapse, her distress could be explained away as grief over Maddox. So I can see how Rios, flailing for answers with multiple sources of stress, might make the logical leap to Raffi. He doesn't have all the pieces of the puzzle, so it's hard for him to make out a clear picture.

But, given how tight he and Raffi have been shown to be, I'm not entirely convinced that he wasn't simply sounding Agnes out, having realised there was more going on with her than meets the eye - if so, it was working, if only he hadn't been called away at the crucial moment.

I daresay we'll find out for sure next week.

 

[Stardancer Supreme]

On 3/6/2020 at 9:12 AM, jah1986 said:

I'm pretty sure this has been my favorite episode so far. Didn't realize how much I missed Riker and Troi until I saw them. And I loved Kestra, the actress also looks like she could be their daughter.

I really liked Troi's explanation to Picard about why Soji is having such a hard time. I also think Picard thought she would trust him the way Dahj did and that hasn't happened yet.

I couldn't tell if Chris was playing Agnes or if he really suspected Raffi.  I hope it's clear now that Raffi is not the problem. I did like seeing her being so kind to Agnes. What kind of EMH is that though, doesn't show up when you ask for him and then just shows up randomly?

Was bored with the Romulans, although I did like Elnor and Hugh working together. Show better not kill Elnor...yet. This show has a high body count for the first seven episodes.

I think Bruce Maddox is the key. Dahj was specifically told to seek out Picard by her "mother".  Soji had a different purpose on the Romulan Cube.  I hope that the Maddox who was killed by Agnes was actually a synth and we will soon see the real deal.

Raffi and Rios knew Agnes was the key to their troubles at that moment.  They just didn't know why or how. Those two are tight; no way would Rios tell Agnes that he suspected Raffi of being a mole.  That was a concerted effort to soften Agnes up to learn the truth.

Dammit, I hate that Hugh is gone. Seven is going to plotz when she finds out. 

Quote

 I'm a bit confused why Elnor had the Fenris-to-the-rescue chip? 

Based on the trailer for next week's show, 

Spoiler

that chip belonged to Hugh.  Seven asked Elnor where Hugh was when she came in guns blazing.

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Stardancer Supreme
Added more stuff.

[Ottis]

2 hours ago, Llywela said:

I think there are actually a bunch of fairly logical reasons why Raffi might fall under suspicion. Rios didn't say he thought she had deliberately betrayed them, he was worried the Romulans may have planted a tracker on her at Freecloud without her knowledge. Because Freecloud is where everything started to go wrong, and out of all the people who left the ship at Freecloud, Raffi is the only one whose movements aren't accounted for - all the others were together in a group. Also, Raffi was probably blind drunk when she returned to the ship, so it might be easy enough to imagine something being slipped onto her while she was wasted. Agnes never left the ship at Freecloud, and there is no reason (yet) to suspect that she was compromised before they ever left Earth - up until her collapse, her distress could be explained away as grief over Maddox. So I can see how Rios, flailing for answers with multiple sources of stress, might make the logical leap to Raffi. He doesn't have all the pieces of the puzzle, so it's hard for him to make out a clear picture.

But, given how tight he and Raffi have been shown to be, I'm not entirely convinced that he wasn't simply sounding Agnes out, having realised there was more going on with her than meets the eye - if so, it was working, if only he hadn't been called away at the crucial moment.

I daresay we'll find out for sure next week.

 

All true, however I said he was a dimwit for assuming ONLY Raffi had the tracker. He just met these people. He has no reason to think any of them are beyond suspicion. I might make an allowance for Picard as he is former Starfleet and maybe Rios would excuse him. But right up there with Raffi is sort of dingy Agnes, so trusting her of all people with his suspicions makes no sense. Rios should have talked to his various EMH people. 

[Starchild]

On 3/5/2020 at 10:38 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Data's head tilt

I may not have caught it, but have we seen Soji do that head tilt before? Because if not, that was some pretty clumsy placement. They should have had some previously so it wouldn't look so kludgy now.

 

18 hours ago, Artsda said:

Loved seeing Riker&Troi, even called her Imzadi!

I can't speak for anyone else, but that felt forced/unnatural to me. Or Frakes just isn't good at delivering it. I know that's the pet name they've used in tie-in fiction, but it doesn't sound right in person. Not to my ears anyway.

 

3 hours ago, Ottis said:

And I still don’t know what this show is about. Helping refugees, those who have little? Because chasing Soji’s source isn’t very interesting. It’s like there is the thinnest main plot that is really just a device for the show to visit old characters. 

Based on what's been shown so far, I get the sense that the objective is (or will become) the redemption of synthetic life forms after what happened on Mars. Like there's something no one knows about how/why that happened that will become clear on this Synth homeworld.

[paigow]

20 hours ago, DrScottie said:

There were more Commodores in the original series, Matt Decker (USS Constellation), Jose Mendez (Starbase 11), and Bob Wesley (USS Lexington) to name a few of them.  

Stocker [The Deadly Years] "a chair bound paper pusher" who assumed command- because Kirk was declared medically unfit- and nearly got everyone killed....

Edited March 8, 2020 by paigow

[paigow]

7 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

 I was seeing a little vibe between Elnor & Narissa. Hey, it could work if they agree to stop trying to kill each other!

It almost worked for Brienne & Jamie....

[Stardancer Supreme]

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

20 hours ago, Artsda said:

Loved seeing Riker&Troi, even called her Imzadi!

I can't speak for anyone else, but that felt forced/unnatural to me. Or Frakes just isn't good at delivering it. I know that's the pet name they've used in tie-in fiction, but it doesn't sound right in person. Not to my ears anyway.

Yeah, that was kinda clunky and harsh the way he said it while Troi was fussing at JL.  It might have gone better had Riker just said "Imzadi..." with a weary sigh. 

[Florinaldo]

As I recall, telepathic abilities died out in Romulans, except for the offshoot species we saw in the movie Nemesis (the Remans), and even with them it was very weak. Because Commodore Oh was able to mind-meld so quickly and effortlessly with Agnes, I will stick with what I wrote after her first appearance and conclude that she is indeed Vulcan, another specimen from that species who « knows better » and becomes convinced of the morality of breaking from the official line and joining a conspiracy for the greater good. Unless this series rewrites the Romulans’ backstory and decides that of course they are telepathic since they share a common ancestry with Vulcans. But how could an altered Romulan pass the numerous medical check-ups, screenings and other security procedures that are bound to be part of Starfleet’s SOP?

Troy’s smile at recognizing JLP coming up the patch was very heartwarming, probably a manifestation not only of the character's emotions but also of the actress’ pleasure at reconnecting with these older characters. The hierarchy between ST cast members was well established: JF got a « special guest star » mention in the opening credits, while MS was relegated to the end credits as guest-starring. Of course, JF also directs on the series so he probably has more clout – or else he has a better agent.

That medical replicator in the infirmary is very efficient. It took Agnes only 4 keys to get exactly the specific toxin she needed; or perhaps the machine also has telepathic abilities 😉.

Poor Elnor: not only he has lost his new best friend (after Icheb, it was not a total surprise that Hugh went the same way), but he is also faced with the realisation that for all his skills and training, he was in way over his head and is now alone on that big cube replete with Tal Shihar operatives. It’s good he called for help, but were we shown JLP losing the call device earlier or did he just happen to stumble on it?

Will the project to reclaim Borgs and de-assimilate them now continue or will all other ex-Bs be killed?

I am sure there already were a number of slash fictions being written about Hugh and Elnor; fan fic authtors will now have to quickly adjust to that dramatic turn of event. This being SF, I am sure they will have no trouble finding workarounds to Hugh’s death.

I don't recall Soji or Dahj doing the head tilt before, but this one was so pointedly showcased that I noticed it immediately and even lunkhead Ryker did.

[Cthulhudrew]

I wonder if Thomas Riker is still around and visits his niece from time to time.

[Hiyo]

Hopefully he survived that Cardassian labor camp he was sent to, especially during the war with the Dominion...

[Llywela]

9 hours ago, Ottis said:

All true, however I said he was a dimwit for assuming ONLY Raffi had the tracker. He just met these people. He has no reason to think any of them are beyond suspicion. I might make an allowance for Picard as he is former Starfleet and maybe Rios would excuse him. But right up there with Raffi is sort of dingy Agnes, so trusting her of all people with his suspicions makes no sense. Rios should have talked to his various EMH people. 

On further reflection, I don't think Rios actually suspects either one more than the other, but he knows something is going on and there are currently only two other people on board, there are equally valid reasons to suspect or exonerate both of them, so he was trying to get to the bottom of it by talking to both - but kept getting interrupted each time, so never managed to finish his investigation. Hopefully we'll find out more next week!

9 hours ago, Starchild said:

I may not have caught it, but have we seen Soji do that head tilt before? Because if not, that was some pretty clumsy placement. They should have had some previously so it wouldn't look so kludgy now.

I think we have, yes - I seem to recall it being commented on by fans in an earlier episode.

[MissLucas]

I thought we'd seen the head tilt before but I was looking for it in the wrong scene (during the interview with Ramda in ep. 3) someone on youtube caught it in the same episode when Narek introduces Soji to the Borg 'ritual' of sock-sliding: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPLwEx9TvDc

Edited March 8, 2020 by MissLucas

[paigow]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

when Narek introduces Soji to the Borg 'ritual' of sock-sliding

[Interior: Tal Shiar Training Classroom]

Instructor: To improve your human infiltration success rate, these examples of 20th century Earth cinema are required viewing.

• Risky Business
• Footloose
• Westworld

Edited March 8, 2020 by paigow

[Florinaldo]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

someone on youtube caught it in the same episode

I remember that now; I saw it but it was so slight I dismissed it as just a passing movement by the actress. The one in this episode was much clearer, they made sure of it.

Thanks for refreshing my memory.

15 hours ago, Starchild said:

I know that's the pet name they've used in tie-in fiction, but it doesn't sound right in person.

Wasn't it used a few times over the course of TNG?

ETA: According to this source, the word was indeed used  on TV.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Florinaldo

[starri]

According to Michael Chabon, Kestra is very in-tune with other people's emotions, but is not actually an empath.  Thad, however, was.

They also purposefully avoided bringing up Lwaxana, because she would also have been gone.  They didn't want to compound the tragedy for Troi, and also wanted to avoid raising the specter of her half-brother, who would only be a bit older than Thad.

[Kromm]

On 3/5/2020 at 2:07 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

I liked it!

Kestra is adorable - and indisepensible!

I'll laud them for both casting with her and how they wrote her (on a show where a lot of the other writing has been sketchy, at least until these past two episodes). 

[TVbitch]

Nice to know Riker's still Riker ...and still doesn't need Q's fantasy women! 

Did anyone catch anything Agnes saw in her Oh mind meld. It went by all "Galadriel/Sam flames in the shire" for me. 

I thought Elnor had bound himself to Picard's mission. Then he's all, "I'm staying here." Uh, rude! Dude needs to leave with the mission he came with. 

 

[Florinaldo]

34 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I thought Elnor had bound himself to Picard's mission. Then he's all, "I'm staying here." Uh, rude! Dude needs to leave with the mission he came with. 

 

Staying to protect Hugh, who is a friend of JLP and is now helping him escape, would probably be considered a valid side-quest according to the Qowat Milat's moral code.

A choice Elnor came to regret because he was outnumbered and is now alone and scared, thanks in large part to his inexperience. He has the fighting skills but he is still quite young and ignorant of the ways of the wicked outside world. The writers should have him learn from it and be more careful or deliberate next time.

[Llywela]

Yeah, Elnor found an even more hopeless cause to bind his sword to - a cause that still served Picard's, because if Hugh hadn't managed to get the spatial doodad and the Queen's chamber all packed away again, the Romulans would have just followed Picard and Soji straight through. Staying to protect Hugh (or to try to protect Hugh, *sobs*) also protected Picard and gave him the best chance of escape.

Growing up with the Qowat Milat and their training for lost causes - I don't think any of it actually prepared Elnor for what a lost cause truly feels like.

[benteen]

On 3/7/2020 at 9:00 PM, Stardancer Supreme said:

Yeah, that was kinda clunky and harsh the way he said it while Troi was fussing at JL.  It might have gone better had Riker just said "Imzadi..." with a weary sigh. 

Yeah, his line-reading was not just forced but terrible.  The only part of his performance I would criticize.  

[MissLucas]

5 hours ago, Llywela said:

Growing up with the Qowat Milat and their training for lost causes - I don't think any of it actually prepared Elnor for what a lost cause truly feels like.

Bit of an oversight by the Qowat Milat if you ask me. He was coping well with his first kill on Vasthi (it was confirmed - I think in the Ready Room - that it had been the first one) but apparently nobody told him about collateral damage.

[marinw]

Elnor is learning that there is a BIG difference between killing an old guy and fighting Romulan Assasins. Any credible Martial Arts Master will tell you that training in a dojo (or the Romulan Nun equivilant) is no preperation for the real world. This is not to diminish Elnor's great skill- he just lacks experience with the choas of reality.

Edited March 9, 2020 by marinw

[marceline]

I know that a lot of people were looking forward to seeing Picard say "Engage" again but Riker's "Shields up!" at the house just got me.

I loved the whole reunion. I spent Thanksgiving at the house of friends I've known for 25 years and there really is something special about being with people who know you that well. That dinner at The Table of a Million Candles felt really good to watch.

Edited March 9, 2020 by marceline

[TVbitch]

16 hours ago, Florinaldo said:

16 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I thought Elnor had bound himself to Picard's mission. Then he's all, "I'm staying here." Uh, rude! Dude needs to leave with the mission he came with. 

 

Staying to protect Hugh, who is a friend of JLP and is now helping him escape, would probably be considered a valid side-quest according to the Qowat Milat's moral code

If I recall correctly, and I may not, Elnor first stayed to help Hugh, but then after Hugh was already dead, Elnor was in touch with Rios and the ship and declined again to be brought back aboard because "they need me here". That is the instance I was questioning.  

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

If I recall correctly, and I may not, Elnor first stayed to help Hugh, but then after Hugh was already dead, Elnor was in touch with Rios and the ship and declined again to be brought back aboard because "they need me here". That is the instance I was questioning.  

I think the plight of Hugh and the XBs really resonated with Elnor - people were being murdered in cold blood solely for information on where Picard had gone. Talk about a lost cause. I think he saw what was happening, saw how devastated Hugh was - Hugh who had helped Picard's escape without hesitation and was still protecting him in spite of the cost - and he knew in his heart that he couldn't just leave them to their fate. It was a brave choice to make and came straight from the heart.

Plus...attempting to help Hugh retake the cube from the Romulans would also help get the Tal Shiar off Picard's back, so - one stone, two birds, potentially.

[tkc]

Did anyone else think that Kestra wouldn't have been out of place on the bridge of Khan Singh's USS Reliant?

[Florinaldo]

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

attempting to help Hugh retake the cube from the Romulans would also help get the Tal Shiar off Picard's back, so - one stone, two birds, potentially.

Yes, it can indeed be argued that Elnor is following a single path, that twists and turns, but is perfectly consistent with his mission and philosophy.

I do no recall seeing the Qowat Milat before this series. From the little that we learned about them I think they probably do not have many contracts off-world, which means their training of Elnor was wanting on the socio-cultural front and he had concrete knowledge only of the mores and customs of Vashti. As this episode showed.

[paigow]

If Elnor has read a lot of old French fiction, then he will be very familiar with underdogs like Valjean and the Count of Monte Cristo in addition to Musketeers struggling against impossible odds...

[Athena5217]

On 3/7/2020 at 12:19 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

How tiny is she? She will still shorter than Picard and Riker was towering over both of them.

Martina Sirtis is 5’3” so she is tiny. I think I remember reading that sometimes she stood on a box for scenes in TNG with Jonathan Frakes and Michael adorn, both of whom are over 6 feet.

[ali59]

Since Star Trek: Picard started, I've been watching TNG to refresh my memory.  Today I watched "The Inner Light" (season 5, episode 25) and noticed that when Picard's "son" is playing the flute, some of the phrases sounded like the opening credit music used now for Picard.

[Prower]

Ugh. A silicon based virus? I think this broke me. A virus needs to tell a living cell to produce parts to replicate the virus, from readily availible materials in the cell. Ever heard of a ton of silicon being in human cells? Ever heard of human cells being able to build parts from silicon? Yeah, me neither. These writers clearly don't give a fuck about anything.

I think I now get how Doctor Who and Star Wars fans must have felt. I recognised that those franchises went to shit and it kinda made me slightly angry. But I still had a kind of morbid fun hate-watching those things. Even Star Trek Discovery, horribly written as it is, was mostly just fun to riff on, since I never had a deep connection to TOS.

But Star Trek Picard. Man, it hurts.

The funny thing is, had you asked me a year ago, I probably would have told you that I'm not even a Star Trek fan. But I must have been on some level. Because nothing hurts like this if you aren't invested. I guess watching TNG as a kid left a bigger impact than I reaslised previously.

Since it's only three more episodes, I think I will stick it out, but afterwards I'm out. I'm not going to watch anything of a second season, should there even be one.

[Prower]

On 3/6/2020 at 4:31 AM, DrScottie said:

There has to be something more to this story of Thaddeus Troi-RIker's disease, mandaxic neurosclerosis. Evidently it was silicon based and could only be cured by culturing cells in an active positronic matrix. I suspect this might come into play later. I realize it was the ban on synthetics that resulted in the inability to cure him, but I am guessing somebody is going to get it and Soji will be their cure. 

There won't be. The writers just pulled something completely unrealistic out of their asses to make the synth ban more tragic and to make the people who made it happen seem more unreasonable and evil.

[Hiyo]

I'm loving this series and can't wait to see the rest of the season, and to see season 2.

[Sandman]

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2020 at 8:57 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't know how Peyton List keeps getting cast on tv shows. I find her acting so bad.

Maybe I'd be enjoying her part more if Larissa wasn't equal parts EEEe-viilll and clunky. She's awful. But I think it's more the writing than the performance. I think. Also, she cheats at duels of honour. (And the quasi-incestuous vibe with Narek is creepy.) I've never wanted someone's head to be separated from her body more. Seriously: I want to see her cut apart onscreen. Poor Elnor! He seemed completely gobsmacked by Larissa's perfidy, and his own failure.

Huuuugh! No!

I never thought I'd see Picard (formerly so undemonstrative and starchy) get so kissy-face with anyone -- but I loved the reunion with Troi and Riker.

What the hell is Commodore Oh? I thought she might be a Romulan disguised as a Vulcan -- but I don't think Romulans can do mind-melds (or can they?). If she's a Vulcan, she's a pretty disgusting one. I wondered if she might have implanted a suggestion in Agnes along with that forced rapport. Hurrrhh. But I guess she wouldn't have had to tell Agnes to chew the tracker, if she was controlling her more directly. I thought maybe there was something up with Agnes when she first burst into Château Picard, guns a-blazin'.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Sandman

[paigow]

10 hours ago, Sandman said:

I thought maybe there was something up with Agnes when she first burst into Château Picard, guns a-blazin'.

If that kill team had been competent, Picard would have been dead before her arrival... then what would she do?