S06.E04: I'm Still Standing

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Jazz heads to new York for a consultation on a possible 4th surgery with Dr. Ting; Jazz appears on What Would You Do? and faces trans deniers.  A skeptical Jazz tours Harvard with her parents but is not convinced it is a better choice than Pomona College.

I dreamed a dream of days gone by
When life was more than genital surgery
I dreamed that I Am Jazz would move on
From focusing on Jazzitalia
Then I was young and unafraid
And dreams were made and used and wasted
There was no vulva to be seen
No song unsung, no wine untasted
But the surgeons come at night
With their voices soft as thunder
As they tear genitals apart
As they turn your dream to shame

Yes, it's another round of surgery roulette on I Am Jazz.  Let's see who gets up close and personal with Jazz's "vagina".  

Original air date 2020.02.18

[maggiegil]

Jazz becoming hysterical to try and convince the grandmother was so manipulative. Jojo's body is absolutely fine, bigger boobs won't make her appear anymore feminine than she already does. Shes 15 and to perform this surgery or advocate for breast implants at this age is child abuse, I would say the exact same if she wasn't trans. IMHO huge boobs on her slim frame will make her look unnatural.

Having problem with urine flow and anything to do with that is so serious. Jazz and Jeanette not knowing that urine flow going the wrong way is one of the major complications of this surgery just shows how informed they were by their doctors and how much research they did.

The drag show thing seems so silly when you know the person you're doing it for finds drag insulting. As I woman I don't mind men expressing their femininity, I see no problem with that, wear whatever you want, dress however you want but I do have a problem with the misogyny that some drag performers seem to perpetuate.

I hated the what would you do segment, its so fake IMHO, you can tell just by virtue of the fact that not many peoples faces were blurred out, in real life not that many people would agree to sign a release to be on TV when they were not consulted until after they'd been filmed.

How is Jazz communicating the message that people shouldn't be judged on their appearance while also advocating that her 15 year old friend should get breast implants?

Why did Jazz apply for Harvard if she didn't want to go? Jeanette is so manipulative with the pastries especially when she knows Jazz's binge eating problems. I wonder how often people have to be convinced to go to Harvard, that was probably a novel thing for someone giving a tour.

Jeanette saying that California is too far from Florida but Massachusetts isn't too far is ridiculous. Browbeating someone to attend the college of your choice is unfair.

If Jazz does attend Harvard after this year off, I wonder how she will be received by the other students who worked so hard to get there and if she does study philosophy, gender and religion how will she do if shes challenged on her ideas.

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, maggiegil said:

Jeanette saying that California is too far from Florida but Massachusetts isn't too far is ridiculous.

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense; the flight is twice as long, but it's still a flight -- either location requires a travel day (get to the airport, sit on a flight, get from the airport to your destination).  If Jeannette's concern is that Jazz might need her to come on short notice, or that Jazz may need to visit home more frequently than is typical, there's little practical difference between Harvard and Pomona; neither one is going to allow for just hopping in the car for a few hours.  And the difference in flight costs isn't an issue for this family; they're quite "comfortable".  So the respective distances shouldn't be a factor in choosing between the schools.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Bastet

[TomGirl]

9 hours ago, maggiegil said:

I wonder how often people have to be convinced to go to Harvard, that was probably a novel thing for someone giving a tour.

This whole topic is giving me major deja vu!  When I was in high school (a million years ago) I applied to both Cornell and Harvard.  Everyone - my parents, teachers, friends - said, “Well, if you get into Harvard, of course you’ll go there, right?”  I was accepted at both schools, went to visit each one, and knew immediately that I wanted to go to Cornell.  But how could I?  What would everyone think?  How could I say no to the name, the prestige, of HARVARD??

Fortunately, I had a wonderful teacher who advised me to follow my heart and my gut, and not worry about what anyone else thought.  I went to Cornell and never had a moment’s regret.  Go Big Red!

[woodscommaelle]

Greg: Did you know Harvard is older than calculus?

Also Greg: giggling at the above statement 

I’ve never seen him more excited than when he got to Harvard. 
 

I don’t think Jazz needs college, and I don’t think she’ll like college. And I don’t think she’ll go. But that’s just my opinion 😉.

And I also think she needs to be living her life without cameras.  
 

Her stitches weren’t dissolvable and she didn’t know that? Huh what? 

[whydoievencare]

This is so petty of me, but why is Jazz wearing what looks like dark brown lipliner with a bright pink lipstick?  It looks awful.

[Nohardfeelings]

Ugh, I hated that part when Jazz was sobbing and the producer told her “This is really important” Really important to who??? JoJo didn’t look like she cared much, and they never even followed up on how the grandmother feels so I doubt she was swayed. Every season they throw Jazz into these situations where she has to debate people, usually about her own existence as a transgender woman, I’m surprised this is the first time she broke down in the middle of one. 

I’ve been keeping up with Jazz’s life since she was about 11 so as much as she shows her bratty side on the show, I’ll always have a soft spot for her and I really hate to see the downward spiral the show is leading up to.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Heartismyarmor

[gingerella]

Tonight’s show was an eye opener in that it really highlighted how deluded this family is. When they were at the appointment with Dr. Ting, he and Bowers were very clear that Jazz needed to wait about a year and reassess to see if she needs a 4th surgery. You all heard that too, right?  Then they call Greg and tell him no more surgeries, yeah! Then Jeanette and Jazz both reiterate how happy they are that there are no more surgeries. Then Greg opines how happy he is to hear there are no more surgeries. Was I the only one yelling at the TV, THATS NOT WHAT THEY SAID!!!! Jeez, denial ain’t just a river in Egypt. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by gingerella

[winsomeone]

Is Jazz trying to not look pretty? Her ears sticking out with her hair behind them do nothing for her. Her lips are not that nice either, but not much she can do about that. If she ever gets away from her mother's control, I look for her to gain a huge amount of weight. This girl seems to need intense therapy at this point in her life. I don't feel that every trans person feels exactly like she does, so how  she thinks she can speak for all of that group is beyond me.

[TomGirl]

1 hour ago, winsomeone said:

 

Is Jazz trying to not look pretty?

 

I think she’s a beautiful girl.

[iwasish]

Jazz always does exactly what SHE wants to do, so why is she fucking around with her parents opinions and preferences for Harvard over Pomona? She just lives for drama and attention.Her parents need to stop asking and just tell her to let them know what she decides.

Did Dr Ting take a picture of her vag and send it to the the other Dr? Does Jeanette ever get tired of looking at Jazz’s vag? I know I’m tired of hearing about it. 

[Fostersmom]

Can Jazz even still go to Pomona without reapplying? She's taking a gap year from Harvard, no? I have no idea how that works, but I'm assuming you have to inform your choice you're taking a gap year and you just don't show up the following year. 

[bichonblitz]

12 hours ago, whydoievencare said:

This is so petty of me, but why is Jazz wearing what looks like dark brown lipliner with a bright pink lipstick?  It looks awful.

I think that is her natural lip line. It's distracting to me, too. Does anybody know what nationality Greg is? All the kids have dark complexions and gorgeous dark, shiny hair. I'm thinking middle eastern? 

[TomGirl]

50 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Does anybody know what nationality Greg is?

He’s Jewish, probably Russian or Eastern European.

[Kid]

What is so curious to me is why Jeanette is so invested in Jazz going to Harvard. In my opinion, it’s not about her daughter it’s about HER.  Look at me, I have a kid who graduated from Harvard. If Jeanette likes the prestige so much, why doesn’t she get off her ass and apply to Harvard herself? Rather than sitting around,  doing nothing, contemplating plastic surgery.  I am sorry but she displays all of the traits that I cannot stomach in women (and I am a woman). She should worry about her daughter getting a good education and becoming a productive citizen who is respected and accomplished. My generation of women worked hard to have those opportunities.

[ClareWalks]

I'm just gonna say it without mincing words: Jeanette is a fucking bitch.

[Kid]

I thought Jazz was quite clear when talking to that Harvard student of why she did not want to go to Harvard.  And I thought they were valid reasons that were rationally thought out.   Some people do not have the kind of driving ambition required for a college like Harvard.  She knows she doesn’t want to go there And I applaud her for her insight as to why not.  I believe her mind is already made up. She is only stalling because of her mother. In my opinion, after her gap year, she will still not attend Harvard. Her mother just needs to shut up and let her live her life. The problem is, Jeanette has no life of her own.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Kid

[Fostersmom]

If you had NEVER watched this show, if you had never heard of Jazz, and had no idea who her mother was, and this was the first episode you'd ever watched, it would be obvious Jazz in no way shape or form wants to go to Harvard. Its so easy to see she wants to go to Pomona. My guess is after a year, Jazz ends up not going to either school, maybe not going to school at all. Hope Jeanette feels really good about badgering her daughter into something she doesn't want. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Fostersmom
to is not the same word as NOT

[ClareWalks]

I realized I wanted to elaborate on why Jeanette is a fucking bitch, LOL.

She is pressuring her daughter to attend the college that SHE wants her to go to. Daughter has no interest. On top of that, Jeanette describes said daughter, TO HER FACE, as "way too unstable" to be away at college. This undermines the daughter's confidence in her own independence and decision-making, which is a horrible thing to do to any kid and is the opposite of what should be the main parental goal. On top of all that, she tried to BRIBE Jazz into picking Harvard with FOOD TREATS, which is a trigger for Jazz to binge-eat. Jeanette is trying to take away Jazz's control in multiple aspects of her life. It is disgusting. 

And for what? Because Jeanette, Greg, and the entire stupid-ass family think that a Harvard diploma is a magical "get any job free" card? Get the fuck over yourselves, folks. Jazz is planning to study social sciences. You do not need to go to Harvard for that. Sorry not sorry. I have an anthro degree myself so I know what I'm talking about. It'll be a basically useless piece of paper no matter what school seal is on it. (Don't send letters, I'm obviously exaggerating.)

[gingerella]

20 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

I realized I wanted to elaborate on why Jeanette is a fucking bitch, LOL.

She is pressuring her daughter to attend the college that SHE wants her to go to. Daughter has no interest. On top of that, Jeanette describes said daughter, TO HER FACE, as "way too unstable" to be away at college. This undermines the daughter's confidence in her own independence and decision-making, which is a horrible thing to do to any kid and is the opposite of what should be the main parental goal. On top of all that, she tried to BRIBE Jazz into picking Harvard with FOOD TREATS, which is a trigger for Jazz to binge-eat. Jeanette is trying to take away Jazz's control in multiple aspects of her life. It is disgusting. 

And for what? Because Jeanette, Greg, and the entire stupid-ass family think that a Harvard diploma is a magical "get any job free" card? Get the fuck over yourselves, folks. Jazz is planning to study social sciences. You do not need to go to Harvard for that. Sorry not sorry. I have an anthro degree myself so I know what I'm talking about. It'll be a basically useless piece of paper no matter what school seal is on it. (Don't send letters, I'm obviously exaggerating.)

Sooooooo much HELL YES to your entire post @ClareWalks! Particularly the bolded parts. I was appalled when she tried to bribe her kid with a bag of donuts, which were probably finished off camera because we all know Jazz has an eating disorder, but hey, that seems like a great way to get your kid to go to the school of your choice so you can brag to your friends about it. And while I do believe that Jazz needs to hear that others see her as lazy, unmotivated, etc., I don't think that was the right way or time to tell her she's 'unstable'. But then again, this entire family should be into deep therapy for all their co-dependency issues, not to mention the myriad of issues Jazz has, none of which she is willing to discuss with a trained therapist (who is not Cousin Debbie or that other women who counseled her when she was a little kid).  Like a trained therapist who has no prior relationship with you, and who will call you out on your bullshit in an appropriate way so that you can accept your issues and work through them.

ETA: I also don't think that Jazz will ever go to Harvard because as she said herself, she's lazy and she at least realizes that, and I think she's afraid to be called out on such a large scale at a place like Harvard. It's like the Emperor Has No Clothes right now and if she goes to Harvard people will see that and she'll get called out and won't be able to manage the fall out. I think she thinks she can manage her narrative at Pomona better but honestly? She'll have to get her shit together and be a bit more humble and willing to LISTEN TO OTHERS if she expects to have a successful and pleasant college experience.

Edited February 19, 2020 by gingerella

[Joan of Argh]

1 hour ago, Kid said:

What is so curious to me is why Jeanette is so invested in Jazz going to Harvard. In my opinion, it’s not about her daughter it’s about HER.  Look at me, I have a kid who graduated from Harvard. If Jeanette likes the prestige so much, why doesn’t she get off her ass and apply to Harvard herself? Rather than sitting around,  doing nothing, contemplating plastic surgery.  I am sorry but she displays all of the traits that I cannot stomach in women (and I am a woman). She should worry about her daughter getting a good education and becoming a productive citizen who is respected and accomplished. My generation of women worked hard to have those opportunities.

I'm finding it a little shocking how ridiculous Jeanette is being about "Harvard"

It's making her look so shallow and way too wound up about the prestige of it all....Jeanette wants that status symbol so bad she's acting like an asshole..Very unattractive behaviour... If I took a drink every time Jeanette says "Harvard" or "Jazz  was accepted to “Harvard"... I'd be under the table and unconscious... I wanted to smack her face and tell her to shut the hell up about "Harvard" 🙄

 

 

 

[jacksgirl]

This family has no boundaries. Jeanette needs a real job with real hours so she can have something in her life other than Jazz. I honestly question if Jazz will be a happy adult. She lacks empathy and compassion. Does the Transgender community like/accept her as a role model or as a spokesperson for them?

Edited February 19, 2020 by jacksgirl

[Luchy]

6 hours ago, winsomeone said:

Is Jazz trying to not look pretty? Her ears sticking out with her hair behind them do nothing for her. Her lips are not that nice either, but not much she can do about that. If she ever gets away from her mother's control, I look for her to gain a huge amount of weight. This girl seems to need intense therapy at this point in her life. I don't feel that every trans person feels exactly like she does, so how  she thinks she can speak for all of that group is beyond me.

She looked good when she had professional makeup done for the TV show -- they used a lip liner and treatment that smoothed out the dark line and made it look all one shade which was pleasing. The look she is adopting for the "sitting on the couch" interviews, the one with the reddish eye shadow and the hair pulled up and on the side, really emphasizing her ears and jaw, isn't her best, but she might just be experimenting with her "look" right now. Goodness knows her mom isn't the best role model for makeup application.

 

[Granny58]

5 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

I think that is her natural lip line. It's distracting to me, too. Does anybody know what nationality Greg is? All the kids have dark complexions and gorgeous dark, shiny hair. I'm thinking middle eastern? 

given their actual last name, I would say eastern european

[Luchy]

With regard to Harvard, these parents are idiots. Lots of students choose not to go to Harvard. It's a big university where the emphasis is on the graduate students and the undergrads are known for their attitude. Given her unhappiness in her high school, I think her "gut feel" may have been absolutely correct here -- a small, highly-ranked liberal arts college where she will get the attention she craves? Sounds like a much better fit. And those connections and close friendships she is likely to find at Pomona will possibly do more for her long term than the Harvard name. I would advise her to go to Pomona undergrad and then Harvard for grad school if she is so inclined.

And yes, California is far, but so is Boston. Neither is a reasonable driving distance from Florida, so the time navigating airports ends up making them very similar in terms of getting back and forth.

So now the parents are all about her thinking rationally and "considering what she is giving up" even though she has been allowed to rely on her gut feel for pretty much every life-changing decision she has ever made up to this point. If they want to steer her, I would start with steering her away from participating in shows like "What would you do?" which just creates artificial trigger situations that are hard for her.

Regarding Jojo's grandma, well of course she doesn't support a boob job for a 14-15 year old! You don't know how things will progress after more time on hormones; Jojo is thin enough that she wouldn't look good with larger breasts. Most 14-15 year old girls, regardless of trans status, are unhappy about their chests. Puberty is hard. Most girls that age who want more cleavage do so with well-made push up bras, which can create an illusion of an ample chest even without much to work with. And Jazz's meltdown seemed strange and I suspect it had more to do with the pressure she is feeling than Jojo's boobs. 

[ClareWalks]

9 minutes ago, Luchy said:

Regarding Jojo's grandma, well of course she doesn't support a boob job for a 14-15 year old! You don't know how things will progress after more time on hormones; Jojo is thin enough that she wouldn't look good with larger breasts. Most 14-15 year old girls, regardless of trans status, are unhappy about their chests. Puberty is hard. Most girls that age who want more cleavage do so with well-made push up bras, which can create an illusion of an ample chest even without much to work with.

I totally agree. I understand that being transgender adds a new dimension of body dysphoria, but for JoJo to insist that she has "the body of a man" tells me that she really isn't seeing herself clearly at all (or that her main issues are with her genitals and not her boobs) and should be addressing this in therapy. I don't even know if a surgeon would augment the breasts of someone so young. In most women their boobs continue to grow until their 20s. Being on hormone therapy is creating a similar puberty so it stands to reason that JoJo is still developing. Maybe get her a good pair of "chicken cutlets" in the meantime, but surgery is a bit extreme at this young age.

Edited February 19, 2020 by ClareWalks

[Ucross]

On 2/18/2020 at 9:55 AM, maggiegil said:

The drag show thing seems so silly when you know the person you're doing it for finds drag insulting. As I woman I don't mind men expressing their femininity, I see no problem with that, wear whatever you want, dress however you want but I do have a problem with the misogyny that some drag performers seem to perpetuate.

Agreed! Drag? If you like, it go and enjoy it and if you don't like it,  you can simply let other be as it doesn't infringe on your life. But Noelle clearly said she wasn't into it, so it seems something negative that will stick with her emotionally if she uses the money for surgery and therefore WILL affect her life. I thought she was enough of an adult that time isn't of that much concern any more, so couldn't it be organized to find another way to raise the money over time?

[Twopper]

First let me rant about that tv show that John Quinones (sp?) does.  I am sure this set up was probably thought up by someone at TLC.   Also I watched it twice, and I am not sure I would have recognized at first glance that the person asking the location of the rest room was trans.  Generally, people ask a manager or wait staff about rest room locations rather than other patrons.  Or maybe I hated this because I absolutely hate the show no matter what the set up is.   Probably in most locations no one has a clue who Jazz is.  She is a big fish in a fairly small world.

That brings me to another rant.  Why do they film her talking to her dad on the phone in the middle of some sidewalk in Manhattan.

16 hours ago, gingerella said:

Tonight’s show was an eye opener in that it really highlighted how deluded this family is. When they were at the appointment with Dr. Ting, he and Bowers were very clear that Jazz needed to wait about a year and reassess to see if she needs a 4th surgery. You all heard that too, right?  Then they call Greg and tell him no more surgeries, yeah! Then Jeanette and Jazz both reiterate how happy they are that there are no more surgeries. Then Greg opines how happy he is to hear there are no more surgeries. Was I the only one yelling at the TV, THATS NOT WHAT THEY SAID!!!! Jeez, denial ain’t just a river in Egypt. 

I thought at the very end of the conversation, they mentioned the possibility of a later surgery although without giving a time frame.   But I agree they are delusional and/or they don't pay a lot of attention since they seemed not to know that diagonal peeing is a common after effect of surgery.  

Throughout the show I wanted to scream "what is wrong with you people"!!   This pushing her to go to Harvard really got on my nerves.   Jazz may think she has problems with articulation, but she certainly was clear about why she thought Harvard was not as good a fit for her.  Too bad she couldn't sell the argument why Pomona was better.  Not that Jeannette would have listened, but I thought her dad would have stood up for her a little or her sibs or her grandparents.  No wonder she is taking a gap year.  Its probably 50-50 as to whether she will ever matriculate there.   I wonder if she has enough self-awareness to be questioning whether she got into Harvard on her own merit or if she was accepted because she "wrote" a book and has been active in promoting her transition on tv.   I think maybe she does since she seemed to be aware of why Harvard might not be a good choice.  

I hope she doesn't end up on M600PL from all the binge eating she is likely to do; it is certainly not the best way to cope with her mother.   No matter where she goes to school, her mother will be one of those helicopter parents that keep calling or texting to nag their child at college.  I think this is the episode where I finally lost all patience with Jeanette.  And Greg.   The only thing I can figure is that Greg wishes he had gone to law school there. 

I guess it is probably true that Noelle cannot get her surgery covered by insurance, but $25k seems a bit cheap.   I got the feeling that Jazz expected the trans person she met with (the drag queen) to jump in and take over the fund raiser for her. 

 

[Kid]

By the way, giving someone who has an eating disorder a dozen donuts is like giving heroin to a heroin addict. If that was not production driven,  Jeanette should be ashamed of herself.  

[readheaded]

I'm wondering if, on some level, Jeanette doesn't really want Jazz to be successful without her.  I do believe that Jeanette loves Jazz and honestly believes she wants the best for her, but I think Jazz might actually end up doing BETTER if she goes to the college that's the right fit and is able to handle her business.  She might gain some self-confidence, which often comes with the impulse to do take better care of yourself.  Being on her own in the relatively sheltered college environment where she can live and learn might unleash a whole upward spiral of better behavior.  

[princelina]

These people are completely delusional.  First of all - Jeanette planning for her trip and telling Greg that "Jazz can't handle another surgery" while he agrees that they don't have time for it anyway because college.  Do they realize that another surgery may not be optional?  They talk like it's just an extracurricular activity that Jazz is tired of and won't have time for anyway.

Then Jazz at the age of 17 is just going to host a drag show and raise $15,000.  La la la.  As you do.

IMO Jeanette is bored with Florida and wouldn't mind trying out a winter or two in New England in a cute apartment with Jazz.  But Jazz just won't see that that's what's best for her!

[Honey]

1 hour ago, Kid said:

By the way, giving someone who has an eating disorder a dozen donuts is like giving heroin to a heroin addict. If that was not production driven,  Jeanette should be ashamed of herself.  

Even if it were producer driven, Jeanette should have advocated for her Daughter, and fucking said no.  It pissed me off.

[galaxychaser]

Jazz is a trainwheck thanks to her parents. She needs parents not enablers. SMH. 

And she is not ready for college period. Maybe 1 class at a community college and live at home.

[Kid]

1 hour ago, Honey said:

Even if it were producer driven, Jeanette should have advocated for her Daughter, and fucking said no.  It pissed me off.

Good point.  Just like when Jazz was sobbing!  That’s the most authentic emotion I’ve ever seen her display on that show.  She is so filled with sadness. And Jeanette just sat there. If it had been me, I would have shut it down.  I understand they are under contract with the production company, but her husband is a lawyer and I’m sure he read that contract and made sure that he negotiated certain safeguards and “outs” into it.  If he did not do it personally, he would’ve been smart enough to have hired an entertainment lawyer to do it.

 

[Cotypubby]

On 2/18/2020 at 12:55 PM, maggiegil said:

I hated the what would you do segment, its so fake IMHO, you can tell just by virtue of the fact that not many peoples faces were blurred out, in real life not that many people would agree to sign a release to be on TV when they were not consulted until after they'd been filmed.

When they film this show, most of (if not all, depending on the set-up) the people in the background are part of the crew/actors and it's only the people at those specific tables/places they are filming that are actually reacting to the situation. So in the scenario shown on I Am Jazz, everyone else in the restaurant except for that one table of 4 people are part of the filming.

I saw this episode when it first aired last year. Most of the people shown were pretty positive towards the transwoman and stood up for her, and even the few older people who agreed with the mother's objections still said she shouldn't be rude to her like that.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Cotypubby

[princelina]

2 hours ago, Kid said:

Good point.  Just like when Jazz was sobbing!  That’s the most authentic emotion I’ve ever seen her display on that show.  She is so filled with sadness. And Jeanette just sat there. If it had been me, I would have shut it down.  I understand they are under contract with the production company, but her husband is a lawyer and I’m sure he read that contract and made sure that he negotiated certain safeguards and “outs” into it.  If he did not do it personally, he would’ve been smart enough to have hired an entertainment lawyer to do it.

 

Jeanette was PISSED OFF.  She said in her TH right before the car conversation that Jazz was being very frustrating for not making a decision (code for not deciding on Harvard).  I think she was at the stage in her manipulation of acting snippy and saying, "Do what you want" so that the object of her manipulation would feel guilty and bad for upsetting her.

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by princelina

[jcbrown]

4 hours ago, readheaded said:

I'm wondering if, on some level, Jeanette doesn't really want Jazz to be successful without her.  I do believe that Jeanette loves Jazz and honestly believes she wants the best for her, but I think Jazz might actually end up doing BETTER if she goes to the college that's the right fit and is able to handle her business.  She might gain some self-confidence, which often comes with the impulse to do take better care of yourself.  Being on her own in the relatively sheltered college environment where she can live and learn might unleash a whole upward spiral of better behavior.  

That starts to be the only explanation for a lot of the crap Jeanette pulls. I think she wants to keep Jazz dependent on her and does not want her to have space to be her own human apart from Jeanette. Therapy, stat.

[princelina]

1 minute ago, jcbrown said:

That starts to be the only explanation for a lot of the crap Jeanette pulls. I think she wants to keep Jazz dependent on her and does not want her to have space to be her own human apart from Jeanette. Therapy, stat.

Well once Jazz moves away, no one is going to be coming around with cameras to film Jeanette and put her on tv.

[Joan of Argh]

3 hours ago, princelina said:

Well once Jazz moves away, no one is going to be coming around with cameras to film Jeanette and put her on tv.

This!   👍

Jeanette loves being a TV star... She's a drama Llama and if Jazz moves away the cameras will follow... Jeanette can't have that.

[janey99]

I am absolutely gobsmacked by this past episode.  My son is 21yo and graduating from college this May - a college that he thought long and hard about and selected from a field of possibilities that were available to him after applying months and months of thought and comparisons and considerations.  He is a year young for his "grade" so he was doing all this analysis in his senior year of highschool about a month after he turned 17.  I offered my advice and it was sooooo tempting to jump in harder to influence his decisions but his father and I realized that his college selection was literally THE first big decision of his adult life and not ours to make.  

Jeannette's behavior is an embarrassment.

[Twopper]

12 hours ago, jcbrown said:

That starts to be the only explanation for a lot of the crap Jeanette pulls. I think she wants to keep Jazz dependent on her and does not want her to have space to be her own human apart from Jeanette. Therapy, stat.

Jeanette seems to be a variation on a "stage mother." She has done this for years ever since she first went on tv with Jazz many years ago.  She makes sure Jazz gets to her tv appearances on time,  she and Greg make make agreements with TLC to film their lives, ;etc.  I don't think she or Jazz have a clue how to disentangle themselves from each other.  I don't think Jeanette's 'career" as a mother- of -trans advocate will last long without having her prop (i.e. Jazz) alongside.  I think Jazz wants to make her own way, but is too overshadowed by the show and her mom to break free.  No wonder she is stressed and depressed.  Her remark about the 50 pound weight she was carrying is sad, because I see her easily stress eating at least 50 pounds. 

I hope they all do well after the cameras are gone.  I can't imagine being any of the other siblings in a family where the primary focus is on Jazz, and it is being filmed from time to time.  Dad wants what mom wants, and mom wants what Jazz wants except if Jazz doesn't want what mom wants then dad sides with mom.  This family is a mess. 

[msrachelj]

And speaking of makeovers. Grandma...you can afford it, go and buy a new friggin wig. No wonder Jeanette has no fashion or make up sense. Look at her mother. These women must not own a mirror, good grief. Too bad What Not to Wear is off the air, they would have qualified. A very strange family. All of them. Jazz is way to fragile to be going away to college. She was coddled and spoiled by her family, especially her mother and she is now an entitled brat. On top of that all the emotional problems that go along with being transgender. Why are they putting this child in intensive therapy for a while? She can go to college later on. 

[Twopper]

1 hour ago, msrachelj said:

She was coddled and spoiled by her family, especially her mother and she is now an entitled brat. On top of that all the emotional problems that go along with being transgender. Why are they putting this child in intensive therapy for a while? She can go to college later on. 

She has much more than the usual trans problems because she has been put front and center in the trans community.  Sure Jazz wants to be an advocate, because that's been almost her entire life, but she wasn't the one who made the decision to go on Oprah all those years ago or make a tv series or have a book written about her.  She really hasn't had much of her own life--especially being so much the center of her family life.   I know it was for tv, but she doesn't need the stress of advocating for Jojo or raising the money for Noelle.  No wonder she is a spoiled, bratty mess.   I have no idea how she will do when TLC goes away.  At some point her prolonged 15 minutes of fame will be over. 

One thing I wonder about, is how much money from the show was set aside for her that didn't go to travel and medical expenses,  Can she pay for Harvard from her money?  Her sibs all went to a state school.

[princelina]

Almost forgot to add Jeanette's fixation about Jazz having a boyfriend - that Harvard student she arranged to talk with Jazz, and her comment and giggles about how he could be a "romantic interest" or something.  Jazz has been depressed and had other mental health issues (like eating) since I've been watching this show, and her mom has been dying for her to have a boyfriend.  Now she has some physical issues that need to be dealt with, the college decisions and transitional issues, plus this stupid show documenting her life.   Getting a boyfriend is A) not going to be easy for those many reasons, B) not necessary when there's so much else going on and C) not the answer to anyone's problem.  Ugh to Jeanette.

[Bastet]

Jeannette's fixation on Jazz's dating life has always bothered me.  It's damaging to treat a girl like her greatest value in life is attracting a boyfriend.  I don't think that's where she's coming from - I think she thinks that since she and Ari were both all about it at that age Jazz should be too, and she worries how Jazz being transgender affects people's interest in dating her (not wanting Jazz to feel dating is something she's left out of because she's trans) - but it sends a horrible message to titter about romantic potential every time someone new crosses Jazz's path.

[msrachelj]

46 minutes ago, Twopper said:

She has much more than the usual trans problems because she has been put front and center in the trans community.  Sure Jazz wants to be an advocate, because that's been almost her entire life, but she wasn't the one who made the decision to go on Oprah all those years ago or make a tv series or have a book written about her.  She really hasn't had much of her own life--especially being so much the center of her family life.   I know it was for tv, but she doesn't need the stress of advocating for Jojo or raising the money for Noelle.  No wonder she is a spoiled, bratty mess.   I have no idea how she will do when TLC goes away.  At some point her prolonged 15 minutes of fame will be over. 

One thing I wonder about, is how much money from the show was set aside for her that didn't go to travel and medical expenses,  Can she pay for Harvard from her money?  Her sibs all went to a state school.

I think they have possibly have the money. At least by looking at the assessed value of their home, whatever the show pays and Greg being a lawyer. Of course, I'm thinking average family where the wife might work, there were no big big money operations not covered by insurance. If I were her parents I would not be paying for an Ivy league college if she had depleted the family bank account by 18. But we don't know how much $$$ they really have. Maybe the house has 3 mortgages. 

[Sile]

I've got a little bit of a different angle on it.  I hate that Jeanette was being so hateful and manipulative, especially in the cab, but it annoys me when Jazz carries on about how they have no say and it's totally up to her, etc.  One of the parents said it would cost about the same (a small, liberal arts college costs as much as Harvard?) and there hasn't been a mention of any scholarships, so I'm assuming that the parents are paying.

If the parents are paying, then they do have a say about it, in my opinion.  I know Boston is expensive, but I imagine that room and board plus cost of living would be even more expensive in CA.  If Jazz is footing the bill herself then, yes, it's totally her decision.  If not, it's the Golden Rule.  Those who got the gold makes the rules.

I also hated the teaser at the end with her prancing around with her shawl in front of her rapt audience waiting for The Decision of Jazz pronouncement to come down.  I realize it's probably producer driven, but it makes Jazz look even more like self-centered, attention grabbing ass.

Of course it's all moot, since she chose Harvard and she probably will never set foot on either campus.

[iwasish]

On 2/18/2020 at 10:24 PM, woodscommaelle said:

Greg: Did you know Harvard is older than calculus?

Also Greg: giggling at the above statement 

I’ve never seen him more excited than when he got to Harvard. 
 

I don’t think Jazz needs college, and I don’t think she’ll like college. And I don’t think she’ll go. But that’s just my opinion 😉.

And I also think she needs to be living her life without cameras.  
 

Her stitches weren’t dissolvable and she didn’t know that? Huh what? 

Didn’t they tell her she needed a follow up visit to remove the stitches? I just had my puppy spayed and they told me when I picked her up to make a follow up appointment to remove the external stitches, but that the internal stitches would dissolve over time. These doctors are not local to the family, wouldn’t they refer her to someone local for stitch remova?

Jazz announcing that she wants to have normal clitoral sensation... I thought  for a split second that Dr Ting was going to  do some kind if exam to see if it was working!!!Jazz acts so entitled, that she MUST have a picture perfect (to her standards) vulva, labia and vagina , not to mention a fully functioning clitoris bugs me. Has anyone told her that this is still experimental surgery? I doubt those two doctors have given her any kind of guarantees that she’ll end  up with anything other than a hole between her legs.I don’t mean to be crude but there’s a lot that can go wrong and Jazz isn’t the ideal patient. She doesn’t always follow aftercare instructions and rejected the skin stretching pre-surgical exercises that would  most likely have  kept the complications to a minimum. 

 

 

[Fostersmom]

7 hours ago, Twopper said:

Jeanette seems to be a variation on a "stage mother." She has done this for years ever since she first went on tv with Jazz many years ago.  She makes sure Jazz gets to her tv appearances on time,  she and Greg make make agreements with TLC to film their lives, ;etc.  I don't think she or Jazz have a clue how to disentangle themselves from each other.  I don't think Jeanette's 'career" as a mother- of -trans advocate will last long without having her prop (i.e. Jazz) alongside.  I think Jazz wants to make her own way, but is too overshadowed by the show and her mom to break free.  No wonder she is stressed and depressed.  Her remark about the 50 pound weight she was carrying is sad, because I see her easily stress eating at least 50 pounds. 

I hope they all do well after the cameras are gone.  I can't imagine being any of the other siblings in a family where the primary focus is on Jazz, and it is being filmed from time to time.  Dad wants what mom wants, and mom wants what Jazz wants except if Jazz doesn't want what mom wants then dad sides with mom.  This family is a mess. 

Jeanette said something in regards to being a momager when she was talking about Jazz doing the TV show. Jeanette's advocate work seems to be having lunch with other moms and wearing tee shirts while pimping out her youngest, while ignoring her other 3 kids. 

 

5 hours ago, msrachelj said:

And speaking of makeovers. Grandma...you can afford it, go and buy a new friggin wig. No wonder Jeanette has no fashion or make up sense. Look at her mother. These women must not own a mirror, good grief. Too bad What Not to Wear is off the air, they would have qualified. 

I fully admit this will sound horrible, but Jeanette looks like a man in drag. She's like the spitting image of Tootsie. Sure, it could just be the glasses, but she looks ridiculous all the time. The makeup, the hair, the clothes. She's like a TV or movie character. 

 

3 hours ago, princelina said:

Almost forgot to add Jeanette's fixation about Jazz having a boyfriend - that Harvard student she arranged to talk with Jazz, and her comment and giggles about how he could be a "romantic interest" or something.  Jazz has been depressed and had other mental health issues (like eating) since I've been watching this show, and her mom has been dying for her to have a boyfriend.  Now she has some physical issues that need to be dealt with, the college decisions and transitional issues, plus this stupid show documenting her life.   Getting a boyfriend is A) not going to be easy for those many reasons, B) not necessary when there's so much else going on and C) not the answer to anyone's problem.  Ugh to Jeanette.

It's like Jeanette can't wait for Jazz to have sex. Before the surgery, after the surgery, Jeanette's trying to get her teen age daughter to hook up. Its creepy. 

[Twopper]

1 hour ago, Fostersmom said:

I fully admit this will sound horrible, but Jeanette looks like a man in drag. She's like the spitting image of Tootsie. Sure, it could just be the glasses, but she looks ridiculous all the time. The makeup, the hair, the clothes. She's like a TV or movie character. 

 

That needed a "spew alert" or other warning as I nearly choked to death on a ginger cookie when I saw that.    Now that you have said that and I have visualized it, I cannot unsee her as Tootsie.    My eyes!!! my brain!!!!