S01.E05: Tear-Drinker

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

After returning from an eye-opening trip to New York, Holly searches for clues at several locations connected to the Dayton case. Jeannie finds herself shaken by an unnerving incident at work and delivers an ominous warning to Ralph. Jack is put on the defensive at Tamika’s baby shower.

Airing Sunday, February 2, 2020.

[scottiB]

Due to the Super Bowl, this episode is streaming early. It’s on HBO Go now. 
https://consequenceofsound.net/2020/01/hbo-new-episodes-curb-the-outsider-avenue-5/

Edited February 1, 2020 by scottiB
Added HBO Go and fixed link.

[scrb]

Thing I don't understand is Jack is hiding the red rash behind his neck and won't tell anyone what happened in the barn.

He's like under control by the evil spirit or whatever it's suppose to be.  Presumably that's why he made a little shrine in the forest with the deer that he shot?

Now the guy who held a gun to the head of some guy with SWAT all around him has that same rash on the back of his neck.

Problem is that these cases are seemingly isolated, in separate states, so the FBI doesn't get involved.

In fact, it's kind of strange that these Georgia cops -- not sure if Ralph and others are with the local PD or some state agency, that GBI -- went to Dayton, didn't really talk to the local or state cops in OH.  But now that they hired a PI, she can go wherever she wants, as long as they pay her bills.

I would think a local or state agency might call in the FBI, as much as they might hate the Feds, because of territorial reasons.  But certainly the FBI would have the resources to go to wherever the evidence leads them.

For the purpose of the story though, it has to be Holly, who's open to this evil lore from different cultures, who's following the trail.  FBI would never link all the different cases, unless maybe that neck rash is seen in several of these "killers."

In any event, the outsider must be this evil force, not Terry Maitland or the Latina bartender.
 

[Pike Ludwell]

I'm not surprised some supernatural activity is creeping in, given that it's Stephen King. I'd been keeping on hoping it would be minimal. At this point though one has to realize there is some major, far out stuff going on here.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Pike Ludwell

[AimingforYoko]

4 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

At this point though one has to realize there is some major, far out stuff going on here.

The thing I liked about King is that with notable exceptions, the characters in his stories always react with skepticism to the weird stuff going on. At first. As more stuff happens, they get on board, but the reactions are always like it would be if any of us heard this stuff.

[WaltersHair]

I feel like I learned nothing except everyone is supposed to be afraid of this thing.

[terrymct]

My BF and I are working on a theory that the demon thing affects people in a couple of ways.  The ones with the blistered necks become his minions, feeding him deer and helping him with his lighting and home decor needs out in the woods (a joke about the lamps).  The people who get scratched are the ones that have doppelgangers created.   I think that it must be the demon using his time in hiding to transmogrify or whatever into the doppelganger form.  He must need time to use the person's DNA to make the duplicate image.   The grieving relatives aren't physically touched by the demon, he pushes them into intense grief so he can feed.

According to the show, people who choose sites for cemeteries in Ohio and elsewhere have a tendency to put them next door to derelict factories.  😉   Down further south, it's just near a farm.

[pasdetrois]

Holly's portrayal is a fail. Nothing but stilted speech, raised eyebrows and big eyes. Sometimes there's a phone camera.

The shoe-polish-hair guy is essentially somnambulant.

I wonder if the actors understood what a mess the story is.

[cpcathy]

The first two episodes raced along and now nothing ever happens. I'm going to be patient, but only because we need something to watch on Sunday nights during dinner.

[blixie]

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 I think that it must be the demon using his time in hiding to transmogrify or whatever into the doppelganger form.

Yeah Hofsteader only died recently and Maria hadn't died, so I suspect Terry's premature death left him with some time to uh kill until he can fully dopplegang the strip bar guy. I still don't know why The Boogeyman is preoccupied with getting popped by the cops, OR why his argument is so bad for "stopping". He's like heh heh let me kill children because if you don't something REALLY bad will happen, like I'll kill...ADULTS.  Apparently supernatural monsters don't know how to manipulate people. 

This episode for sure didn't give us much new information, though I think it's still very watchable and moving.  

 

Quote

I would think a local or state agency might call in the FBI

I've seen more than enough evidence of this not being the case, there is a real lack of cooperation between law enforcement agencies and a lot of jurisdictional cock walking. Plus everybody agreed Terry did it and then he died so essentially there isn't much of  a case they have to follow up on, and the stuff they found in the barn post mortem only added to the evidence against Terry.

The investigation now has nothing to do with GBI, that guy is just being probably really unprofessional by sharing info with Ralph, because he himself is confused by the evidence. 

[terrymct]

5 minutes ago, blixie said:

Yeah Hofsteader only died recently and Maria hadn't died, so I suspect Terry's premature death left him with some time to uh kill until he can fully dopplegang the strip bar guy. I still don't know why The Boogeyman is preoccupied with getting popped by the cops, OR why his argument is so bad for "stopping". He's like heh heh let me kill children because if you don't something REALLY bad will happen, like I'll kill...ADULTS.  Apparently supernatural monsters don't know how to manipulate people. 

 

The scene with Jeannie and the hoodie demon was really creepy, I think in large part to Mare Winningham's acting.  

I thought at first that the demon's face was sort of melted looking when he was between doppelganger forms, but the description Terry's daughter gave and Jeannie's description were pretty close to one another.  Maybe he stays melted until his oven timer goes off.  😉  

[scrb]

Wasn't Terry's death part of the plan though?

The tear drinker had the brother? of the kid who was allegedly killed by Terry go and shoot Terry at the court house steps.

The hooded demon was there watching the shooting unfold IIRC.

[iMonrey]

My parents never told me the boogeyman would get me if I misbehaved or anything like that. How lucky was Holly to find a bartender whose parents happened to use that method of keeping her in line as a child? 

As a rule, I'm irritated when shows and movies use strip clubs as one of their set pieces. It just feels overly pandering and gratuitous. It's also a strong reminder that the story was written by a man whose life includes strip clubs as a frequent haunt and considers them mainstream and normal. Not to cast aspersions, I just can't relate.

The show continues to make odd choices that I suspect are deliberate attempts to confuse the audience. The little girl insisted she wasn't dreaming when she saw the hooded figure, but both Jeannie and Tamika were clearly dreaming when they spoke with him. Then there's Jack who doesn't seem to see him at all, at least from our perspective, but seems to be interacting with him constantly. The only two people actively looking for him are Ralph and Holly - why doesn't the hooded figure appear directly to them instead of using intermediaries? 

[WaltersHair]

When I was a kid, the Boogeyman was  an all purpose evil. if you went outside after dark alone, the Boogeyman would get you. If you went anywhere alone or rode your bike into bad parts of town, went into the nearby park alone, etc.

So I don't know if my Boogeyman has any direct relevancy to how he's portrayed here. Kids used the term, not my parents. Strangers were the ones to be feared.

[kicksave]

3 hours ago, terrymct said:

My BF and I are working on a theory that the demon thing affects people in a couple of ways.  The ones with the blistered necks become his minions, feeding him deer and helping him with his lighting and home decor needs out in the woods (a joke about the lamps).  The people who get scratched are the ones that have doppelgangers created.   I think that it must be the demon using his time in hiding to transmogrify or whatever into the doppelganger form.  He must need time to use the person's DNA to make the duplicate image.   The grieving relatives aren't physically touched by the demon, he pushes them into intense grief so he can feed.

According to the show, people who choose sites for cemeteries in Ohio and elsewhere have a tendency to put them next door to derelict factories.  😉   Down further south, it's just near a farm.

Good analysis...what about the dreams? And Ralph's son appearing...

[ShellsandCheese]

23 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The show continues to make odd choices that I suspect are deliberate attempts to confuse the audience. The little girl insisted she wasn't dreaming when she saw the hooded figure, but both Jeannie and Tamika were clearly dreaming when they spoke with him. Then there's Jack who doesn't seem to see him at all, at least from our perspective, but seems to be interacting with him constantly. The only two people actively looking for him are Ralph and Holly - why doesn't the hooded figure appear directly to them instead of using intermediaries? 

Jeannie wasn't dreaming though. You don't cut your foot in a dream. I imagine that Tamika probably wasn't dreaming either - he probably just put the baby back. I think it's more along the lines of IT, where adults can easily convince themselves that they were dreaming or something isn't real. The power of the rational mind. Children on the other hand.......

[terrymct]

1 hour ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Jeannie wasn't dreaming though. You don't cut your foot in a dream. I imagine that Tamika probably wasn't dreaming either - he probably just put the baby back. I think it's more along the lines of IT, where adults can easily convince themselves that they were dreaming or something isn't real. The power of the rational mind. Children on the other hand.......

I agree that the demon showing up to Jeannie and the girl aren't dreams.    I haven't worked out the dead people showing up, though.  It could be figments of their imagination, as you suggest, or maybe something the demon can do to ramp up grief among survivors.

[pasdetrois]

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As a rule, I'm irritated when shows and movies use strip clubs as one of their set pieces. It just feels overly pandering and gratuitous.

Cheap and boring pandering. If they wanted an atmospheric environment, they could have gone with a regular seedy bar.

Edited February 3, 2020 by pasdetrois

[WaltersHair]

Quote

As a rule, I'm irritated when shows and movies use strip clubs as one of their set pieces. It just feels overly pandering and gratuitous. It's also a strong reminder that the story was written by a man whose life includes strip clubs as a frequent haunt and considers them mainstream and normal. Not to cast aspersions, I just can't relate.

Totally agree. I'm hoping it will make sense later on plot-wise. If not, just cheap thrills in a very dark and humorless series. I must say, they aren't making it seem glamorous and the girls aren't exactly Vegas showgirls, but maybe that's the point.

[iMonrey]

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 I must say, they aren't making it seem glamorous and the girls aren't exactly Vegas showgirls, but maybe that's the point.

Yes, I think that is the point. Since the girls aren't exactly models it indicates that this is sort of smaller, second rate strip club as befitting a rural area. Because . . . even they have strip clubs. One stop light, one gas station, a McDonald's, and a strip club. Middle America, folks!

Edited February 3, 2020 by iMonrey

[AryasMum]

6 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Cheap and boring pandering. If they wanted an atmospheric environment, they could have gone with a regular seedy bar.

But then there’d be no naked breasts, and this is HBO after all. 

[Milburn Stone]

This episode creeped me out so much, I wasn't sure I could take it. 

[kelseykixx]

10 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

This episode creeped me out so much, I wasn't sure I could take it. 

I literally just finished watching it and was legitimately creeped the fuck out the entire time. Have been reading a lot of comments on other forums that people are getting bored and “nothing” is happening the last few episodes - huh? 
 

IMO, the pacing of this show is absolutely perfect. The slow, drawn-out tension is absolutely terrifying. The dream-like visits from the hooded man are like watching sleep paralysis visits come to life. Are they awake or are they asleep? The hazy, confusion of a nightmare fog was done so well and my god his voice... 

Not sure if anyone has seen the movie The Mothman Prophecies but it is incredibly similar in the slow introduction to something evil and supernatural - has a very similar creepy element that has you paralyzed with fear the entire movie. Not in a “murderer gonna pop out from behind the shower curtain jump scare” kind of way but in a deeply unnerving, dreadful way.

Super excited to see where this show goes and hopefully I can fall asleep tonight. 

[Milburn Stone]

5 minutes ago, kelseykixx said:

Super excited to see where this show goes and hopefully I can fall asleep tonight. 

I had that same concern as I watched! We'll find out shortly.

[Auntie Anxiety]

I’m confused. It felt like I missed the episode before this, but I didn’t.

Just my eyes, or was everyone else wondering what the note and that other piece of paper said? Please tell me what I missed. 

Ralph saw the picture that that kid drew and then saw the picture that his wife drew, which was almost identical, and he didn’t make a connection? WTF?

Edited February 4, 2020 by Auntie Anxiety

[terrymct]

18 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Cheap and boring pandering. If they wanted an atmospheric environment, they could have gone with a regular seedy bar.

In this case, the strip club is clearly someplace a family man like Terry wouldn't be, which shows the doppelganger's behavior was out of the ordinary for Terry.   He might have a beer occasionally at the local dive bar.

[TexasGal]

59 minutes ago, terrymct said:

In this case, the strip club is clearly someplace a family man like Terry wouldn't be, which shows the doppelganger's behavior was out of the ordinary for Terry.   He might have a beer occasionally at the local dive bar.

I think it also give us some insight into Jack - being not only a drunken regular, but verbally abusive to the workers.  

[luna1122]

21 hours ago, iMonrey said:

My parents never told me the boogeyman would get me if I misbehaved or anything like that. How lucky was Holly to find a bartender whose parents happened to use that method of keeping her in line as a child? 

As a rule, I'm irritated when shows and movies use strip clubs as one of their set pieces. It just feels overly pandering and gratuitous. It's also a strong reminder that the story was written by a man whose life includes strip clubs as a frequent haunt and considers them mainstream and normal. Not to cast aspersions, I just can't relate.

 

Wait, Stephen King is a regular frequent-er of strip clubs?

I was never threatened with the boogeyman either; I did think it was kind of convenient and odd that everyone asked seemed to have such a reference.

The scene with Jeannie and the hooded monster thingy was kind of terrifying. The scariest of the series so far. I had trouble sleeping that nite, and I'm not gonna blame it solely on this scene, but it lingered in my mind, for sure.

I'm liking this, tho it's muddled and convoluted, but it's a Stephen King story, so what can we expect. I also miss Jason Bateman. It's mean to have him in an episode and then kill him off in the next.

I think Ben Mendolsohn is a great actor, but I was shocked to discover that he's younger than Bateman.

[khyber]

54 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I think Ben Mendolsohn is a great actor, but I was shocked to discover that he's younger than Bateman.

They're only a few months apart. But Bateman is one of those baby-faced guys and Mendelsohn is craggy faced.

[iMonrey]

Quote

IMO, the pacing of this show is absolutely perfect. The slow, drawn-out tension is absolutely terrifying.

I'm fine with the pacing. I haven't noticed myself checking my watch or anything. I find the story engrossing enough. But I'm still on the fence about where it's going. The Coco and boogeyman stuff is making me give it the side-eye. I like all the characters though. 

[terrymct]

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm fine with the pacing. I haven't noticed myself checking my watch or anything. I find the story engrossing enough. But I'm still on the fence about where it's going. The Coco and boogeyman stuff is making me give it the side-eye. I like all the characters though. 

 

Stephen King has a long history of taking something familiar or well trodden and making it scary as heck.   I have hope that he torqued the boogeyman legends enough for an interesting payoff.

[Milburn Stone]

45 minutes ago, terrymct said:

 

Stephen King has a long history of taking something familiar or well trodden and making it scary as heck.   I have hope that he torqued the boogeyman legends enough for an interesting payoff.

Something I think he does (I've only read one King book, 11/22/63, which was pretty great) is start by creating believable characters who you basically like a lot, so that when supernatural shit starts happening to them, you actually care and buy into the fear. For me the show is doing a good job of that. 

[izabella]

6 hours ago, luna1122 said:

The scene with Jeannie and the hooded monster thingy was kind of terrifying.

As usual, I'm totally confused with this show.   Which scene are you referring to?  The one where he is in her house and tells her that her husband needs to stop investigating or bad things will happen to them?

Or the one in the doctor's office with the hoodie guy.  Was that a real scene?  Did she dream that? 

[atlantaloves]

Yes please, who was that guy in the waiting room, they did not follow up on that.  Was he dead, she didn't say anything to her husband. Just said she had a weird day.

[Auntie Anxiety]

1 hour ago, atlantaloves said:

Yes please, who was that guy in the waiting room, they did not follow up on that.  Was he dead, she didn't say anything to her husband. Just said she had a weird day.

I thought the waiting room hoodie guy was the same guy who got shot by the police? I thought he was also responsible for making the bed? I need a rundown and explanation of the episode.

[Accidental Martyr]

2 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

Yes please, who was that guy in the waiting room, they did not follow up on that.  Was he dead, she didn't say anything to her husband. Just said she had a weird day.

 

54 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

I thought the waiting room hoodie guy was the same guy who got shot by the police? I thought he was also responsible for making the bed? I need a rundown and explanation of the episode.

I think the guy in the waiting room was just a patient/client that fell asleep while he was waiting. 

[AryasMum]

4 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

I thought the waiting room hoodie guy was the same guy who got shot by the police? I thought he was also responsible for making the bed? I need a rundown and explanation of the episode.

Wasn’t the waiting room guy white?

[pfk505]

So one thing that confused me in this episode, I was convinced it was deliberate at first but now I'm not so sure.

When Jeannie is at work the first time talking to the girl, she is wearing a blue denim shirt. As the girl leaves, Jeannie looks in on the waiting room and notices the hooded guy (the actual one). She looks disturbed but calls the next guy into her office. Later she pops out again wearing a striped sweater and sees the sleeping hooded guy - different shade of green hoodie and obviously not the eraser faced man. Then later in the episode she is back to her previous attire.

I was convinced for a moment that there might be two Jeannies, but given how the rest of the episode played out I'm thinking just a continuity/editing error? There have been a few of those in the series so far.

I don't get the negativity around this show, its not perfect but I'm loving the atmosphere, tone, and creep factor.

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, pfk505 said:

I don't get the negativity around this show, its not perfect but I'm loving the atmosphere, tone, and creep factor.

The show stands in contrast in my mind to another recent show with a supernatural story. Servant, on Apple+, which struck me as a ridiculous bore--despite that the supernatural element was no more implausible than the one in The Outsider. The difference wasn't in the non-realism of the threat; they were about equal on that score. The difference is that Servant was populated by stereotypes I hated, and they all could have gone to hell as far as I was concerned; while The Outsider is populated by non-cookie-cutter characters I like and who I don't want anything bad to happen to.

But there's no question that in addition to this, The Outsider has its own look and feel, one that I've never quite seen before.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Milburn Stone

[blixie]

Quote

trip club as befitting a rural area

I see a lot of strip clubs in rural areas to appeal to long haul truckers. They are usually off the interstate.

[terrymct]

On 2/4/2020 at 4:57 PM, izabella said:

As usual, I'm totally confused with this show.   Which scene are you referring to?  The one where he is in her house and tells her that her husband needs to stop investigating or bad things will happen to them?

Or the one in the doctor's office with the hoodie guy.  Was that a real scene?  Did she dream that? 

 

I was referring to when he was in her house, particularly at the table.  

The hoodie guy in the office was just some dude sleeping.  Yes, that was real.

On 2/4/2020 at 10:29 AM, luna1122 said:

I was never threatened with the boogeyman either; I did think it was kind of convenient and odd that everyone asked seemed to have such a reference.

 

I heard the scary stories from other kids, rather than from my parents.  There were some hints of old world stuff from my elderly relatives, but not from my parents.

[tennisgurl]

The atmosphere is so creepy and unsettling, especially because its kind of hard to put your finger on what exactly is so disconcerting sometimes. Yeah there are scenes that are traditional "creepy" scenes, but also ones where people are just walking around or talking or looking at stuff, and while nothing seems to be scary, there is just this horribly foreboding vibe, like something is right off screen...and its about to get you. 

Jeannie and the hoodie guy wins for scariest moment. It was a lit room in public filled with people, but it was just so...intense. I definitely think the creepy dreams people are having are real, and its part of the way that the entity sucks emotions from people. It lives on fear and grief and misery, so this is part of its whole evil plan.

[Cheezwiz]

On 2/3/2020 at 8:11 PM, kelseykixx said:

Not sure if anyone has seen the movie The Mothman Prophecies but it is incredibly similar in the slow introduction to something evil and supernatural - has a very similar creepy element that has you paralyzed with fear the entire movie. Not in a “murderer gonna pop out from behind the shower curtain jump scare” kind of way but in a deeply unnerving, dreadful way.

Oooh, I LOVED the Mothman Prophecies!

I'm still enjoying the show, although I understand how it seems convoluted and frustrating to people who haven't read the book.

I like many of the tweaks they've made to the story. They've actually humanized Jack (the jerky police officer minion) a great deal in the series - he genuinely seems to be wrestling with something.

The scene with Jeannie and the hoody monster (in her house) was super creepy. The hoody guy at her workplace was real and was just a random guy who had dozed off in the waiting room, but that was some skin crawling suspense!

I was very moved at the ending when Ralph's son appeared pleading for him to let go.

My only complaint was that this episode was dark as hell and I was having a hard time seeing what was going on. I kept fiddling with my computer screen to no avail.

 

[NurseGiGi]

On 2/4/2020 at 12:44 PM, terrymct said:

 

Stephen King has a long history of taking something familiar or well trodden and making it scary as heck.   I have hope that he torqued the boogeyman legends enough for an interesting payoff.

My problem with King, and one of the reasons I stopped reading his books, is he can sure tell a tale and build great characters but somewhere along the way he lost the ability to nail a landing.  I hope that doesn't happen here.

[humbleopinion]

On a side note, Cynthis Erivo, who plays PI Holly Gibney is up for an Oscar for Harriet Tubman...if she wins, she will have a coveted EGOT ...she is unrecognizable in the Oscar PR because she is smiling...very un-Holly

Striking how today Netflix's content is so much better than HBO's...

 

[NurseGiGi]

So, any theories on what Holly's mall cop "friend" is up to?  Is he also controlled by the Outsider?

[Arcey]

I just finished watching the episode and was also wondering about Holly's man-friend. What was he up to at the end?

And why wasn't Holly more curious about the traffic jam due to police activity. She's so intuitive about everything, yet this didn't raise any alarms?

In the waiting room, the first time Jeannie sees the man in the hoodie, he's facing forward. The next time, his back is to her. I don't think they were the same person/thing.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Arcey
typo

[humbleopinion]

Am I wrong to think that the man held hostage was mistaken for Holly's lover, Andy because the dude was using the security company truck that Andy also drives...

 As an ex-detective, Andy read what was on the yellow pad page he found by the desk that fell out of Holly's notes.

  Andy is seen later doing some online investigation on his own from what she wrote but I couldn't read from the TV screen...did anyone see what Holly wrote?

[Eliza422]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2020 at 5:33 PM, Arcey said:

 

In the waiting room, the first time Jeannie sees the man in the hoodie, he's facing forward. The next time, his back is to her. I don't think they were the same person/thing.

I think the first time she saw the hooded man it was the Outsider; the second time it wasn't.

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, Eliza422 said:

I think the first time she saw the hooded man it was the Outsider; the second time it wasn't.

For some reason this post made me get the title of the show. The demon is the Outsider because he assumes the outside (exterior) bodies of the ones he doppelgangs. Duh.